how the fuck do you counter this

The answer is always horse archers

>>211894077 (OP)
What stops the opponents from just pushing spears to the side and shortening distance

molotov cocktail

we're in 2025, just fly some drones over them

this thing probably

>>211894116
nigga you are being blown up by fucking drones from a remote village
Shut the fuck up about military strategies

>>211894077 (OP)
>he doesn't know

>>211894077 (OP)
1. Archers.
2. Sacrifice and pure force.
3. Horses.
4. Flanking and pinching.
5. Multi-point attack.

>>211894077 (OP)
gunpowder

>>211894077 (OP)
Attack from the sides and the back. Notice how they can only point their pikes forward

>>211894116
And then what? You're closer, but the guys from the back are still stabbing you. Look at the picture, you're still in stab range at their shields, numb nut.

>>211894077 (OP)
Flanking

>>211894077 (OP)
Uneven terrain, literally what Romans used to beat them into submission

outflank them with smaller units

>>211894077 (OP)
The Romans managed to lure them into uneven grounds then exploiting the gaps in their formations. Also once they were pushed back at Thermopilae again and again by the Macedonians until they found the pass around it, like 400 years after the Persians there was still a pass around it

>>211894077 (OP)

>>211894077 (OP)
>how the fuck do you counter this
How long is the spear? How heavy is it? Is it held by one person, or by multiple people? It's a matter of waiting because I don't think a single person can hold a spear for that long

>>211894077 (OP)
Maniples, my ancestors showed the way

>>211894077 (OP)
Go around them
Make them break formation
That easy

>>211894077 (OP)
head on charge with thousands of armoured war elephants
they turned back after facing a mere 200 elephants. mauryans gifted 600 elephants to selucas. which implies that they had far more in thier own armies.
that or horse archers

>>211894077 (OP)
1. mobile missle cavalry to yeet them
2. small units to exploit the gaps between their units

>>211894163
Aren't horses suppose to be countered by this?

>>211894147
yeah, tell em Brazil!

>>211894116
the second line of spears, you can see how they're layered,
but I admit the I wondered the same, why can't they just push through with a wall of thick shields?

>>211894802
Not countered. Broken up. But it's only good for 1-2 waves of horses before spears are lodged and/or broken. Then it's just men with sword and shields.

>>211894077 (OP)
Archers or other types of ranged weaponry
terrain which makes tight formations difficult
flanking
longsword units specialized in cutting off the spears
even longer spears xD

>>211894077 (OP)
Romans beat it with a simple testudo. And elefants granted, but it was mostly the testudo

>>211894362
I think each spear is held by one person. Also counterweights on the other end for spears seem to have been a thing in ancient greece so I dont think they would tire that fast

do what the romans did, bait them up a hilly rocky terrain with trees and hit them with pila from the side

>>211895341
tight phalanx beats the testudo

>>211894077 (OP)
More maneuverable units and fighting on uneven ground where it's harder to keep an efficient phalanx formation. I read somewhere those were counter tactics the Romans used.

>>211894077 (OP)
BBC

>>211895386
how does a phalanx fare against a pilum volley?

>>211895715
towards the front not so bad since there is a 5 meter distance and they can just raise their shields

when the romans beat them they were in maniples spreading out into smaller bands, they romans don't fire their pila in testsudo, they might hit their own

>>211895715
how does a pilum volley fare against a tetsudo flank

>>211894161
qrd?

>>211895984
>and they can just raise their shields
I thought phalanx shields are strapped to the arm? won't getting a pilum stuck there force them to break formation?
>>211896021
why would they use testudo anyway? isn't that formation an emergency counter against arrow fire?

>>211894104
*stands at the top of a hill*

>>211894917
>But it's only good for 1-2 waves of horses before spears are lodged and/or broken
Horses aren't supposed to charge into solid formations. That would kill the horses and the men. The point was to charge towards them and hope they start breaking up, and when they do keep charging in and attack, and if they don't they wheel back.

>>211897102
also, in that age no one had stirrups

>>211895341
The Romans did not use testudo's to take on phalanx's front on. They usually had veterans come to the front and cut the spears with a sword. Usually they did not at all and relied on cavalry and flanking.
>And elefants granted
The Romans didn't use elephants.
>>211896850
Greek and most ancient shield were attached by a boss, so they used their hands
>>211897150
It was harder without stirrups to wheel but it was possible, just took more experience.

>>211894077 (OP)
Same formation but with longer spears.

>>211894137
the A10 Braphog

>>211897256
Not really without stirrups you just can’t carry out heavy-cavalry charges. In antiquity, cavalry was used more for skirmishes, encirclements, and cutting supply lines; they didn’t take part in the main clash of the battle the way they did in later periods.

>>211895341
They beat them by being good duelists

>>211897990
They did. But they charged at trot speed and not at gallop speed

>>211894077 (OP)
Arrow like angled shields?

>>211894077 (OP)
So many ways

>>211894077 (OP)
More men with spears

>>211897990
>Not really without stirrups you just can’t carry out heavy-cavalry charges.
They could. The Persians excelled at it. What they did was train the horses to respond to the movement of the legs of the rider to steer the horse since both hands were used to hold a spear. And like the other anon said they didn't gallop since a horse cannot respond in time at that speed in the way they steered. The Romans also did the same, Maurice in cavalry charges describes the horses moving at a trot pace to the enemy with horse archers trying to break the enemy before they arrived, they did not gallop.

>what is maniple formation
Literally just use smaller chunks of dudes that'd force rigid, unflexible phalanx lines out of formation.

>>211898406
With longer spears, that's how the macedonian phalanx conquered Greece anyways

>>211894116
That's basically what the Romans did irl to counter it.
>>211894077 (OP)
>>211894212
>>211894854
>>211895386
The Romans regularly beat phalanxes through superior flexibility.
Roman legions could be divided up into smaller units that could act independently, unlike the rigid phalanxes that were bulky, cumbersome and needed flat ground to maintain cohesion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Magnesia
>the best phalangites of all manage to hold their ground against legionnaires, then get flanked by skirmishers and have to flee under a hail of projectiles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cynoscephalae
>the Macedonian right flank is slowly winning when their left flank collapses, which allows the Romans over there to send a small detachment to flank the Macedonian right and rout them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chaeronea_(86_BC)
>legionnaires charge low quality phalangites head on and crush them instantly by pushing their pikes to the sides

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Orchomenus
>phalanx gets disorganized, Romans charge them and BTFO them

>>211894077 (OP)
fight on any irregular terrain, basically anything that's not a field or a stretch of desert
that's how the romans did it

How do you counter this?

>>211894161
lol good post anon, I just learned about those recently.

>>211898882
>>legionnaires charge low quality phalangites head on and crush them instantly by pushing their pikes to the sides
Sulla gave his army +20% dread

>>211894077 (OP)
With or without seeming mad?

>>211898882
>get flanked by skirmishers
wtf aren't they supposed to be supported by their own cavalry?

>>211901034
At the time of Alexander the great the phalanx was just the center piece of a well balanced army that included a strong cavalry, skirmishers and heavy infantry.
Late greek armies were increasingly focusing on pikemen, making them vulnerable to more adaptable enemies
>why did they do that
I guess it was cheaper and easier. Plus a huge mass of pikes was unstoppable, but only under very specific conditions

>>211901034
a philipean army had about 40% phalangites, 30% macedonian/thessalian mounted, 30% light infantry, the mounted and light units supported the pikemen, after the victories of the diadochi wars the macedonians kingdoms became more used to pikeman armies fighting each other so they dropped the support units seeing how their armies were mirrors, just like the hoplite matches of the greeks in eons past, when the romans came knocking they couldn't even get enough allies to fight in the support style since most light infantry were client kingdoms, such as the thracians etc

>>211901034
>wtf aren't they supposed to be supported by their own cavalry?
The Seleucid cavalry was too busy attacking the fortified Roman camp (at which they failed).
>>211901233
>>211901492
>Diadochi armies were focused mostly on pikemen
I've seen this claim repeated but that's simply not what you see in the sources.
Roman accounts of battles from this time always mention that the Diadochi armies had a heavier focus on cavalry than the Romans did.
In their wars in Greece the Romans also typically relied on local auxiliary cavalry. For example at Cynoscephalae almost all the Roman cavalry were local Aetolian Greeks.

>>211894116
This is why millions of russians die in every big war

>>211894117
why were molotov cocktails not more popular in antiquity? seriously why didn't more armies experiment with fire weapons

>>211901879
Yeah why they didn't simply stop at their local bucees bought a couple gallons of gas and firebombed their enemies?

>>211902183
alcohol moron. they could have thrown vodka filled bottles

>>211902294
Lol

>>211894077 (OP)
Flank it.

>>211902294
The Byzantines and the Muslims knew a little about firebombs calling it naphtha, but it was a well kept secret. Good luck igniting beer or wine in antiquity

>>211896942
*Cuts your supply lines and waits*

>>211901785
the much later diadochi armies like in the 240-180s bc, not the early ones like Seleucid vs egypt

>>211896626
Gaelic excellence

>>211894077 (OP)
Hand grenades

>>211901879
Guessing the questionable reliability, difficult handling, and risk of burning your own men.

>>211902921
*dispatches foragers to feign desperation whilst the mule wagons are hidden in between bunches of triarii*
*orders a flanking maneuver while half the enemy cavalry are miles away*

>>211894077 (OP)

>>211894104
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
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>>211903573
Why are you here? Nobody summoned you.

>>211903010
Roman vs Greek wars happened between the early 3rd to the early 1st centuries BC. even then the Greeks were still employing far more cavalry than the Romans did. The Romans were a more infantry centered army.

>>211901879
Because daddy kept raping you at night

>>211898882
>>211901785
>>211902838
>>211903615
You are the most deluded streetshitter on the planet if you think this is what will finally makes whitishers like you,
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
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RSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
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>>211903573
>>211903745
>>211903573
Where have all the good men gone and where are all the gods?
Where's the streetwise Kullervo to fight the risin' odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night, I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need

>>211894077 (OP)
Throw sharp rocks at it from a distance and flee like a nigger when they get close.

>>211894077 (OP)
by sending waves after waves of your men

>>211901879
glass smithing wasnt a thing until very recently o algo

>>211902838
What about oil ?

how the fuck do you counter this

>>211906065
You just filter it.

>>211906267
S.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
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>>211894077 (OP)
outflank them

>>211894077 (OP)
Go around and stab them with a sword. If that don't work just pepper them to death with projectiles.

>>211907373
DAMM WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT?!
JUST PEPPER THE BASTERDS LIKE A STREET CURRY

>>211907712
FUCK YOU BLOODY FUCK YOU I AM NOT INDIAN SAAR FUCK YOU FUCK YOU DO NOT REDEEM THE LIES YOU PAKISTANI DOG

>>211907712
>t. Paki pedo

>>211908254
What shithole is immune from you people?

>>211894077 (OP)
throw some trash infantry from the front
throw literally anything else from behind