Thread 212775579

>>212775579 (OP)
This shit isn't true, same as that "60% of Americans are paycheck-to-paycheck". Americans make plenty but have terrible spending habits, and are spoiled, so if they can't eat out daily, buy a new car every few years, take two or three vacations per year while working, then they are "struggling". Housing is expensive in lots of America, but not to the degree that it bankrupts you.

What's with this Canadian faggot always doompisting about America?
Living paycheck to paycheck just flew over my house bro, 2 more weeks

Fucking moron

>>212775919
>>212775966
>stop paying attention goyim!

>>212775986
>Paying attention
None of it is true tho. It's just clickbait bullshit doomposting, fucker probably works for the CCP

>>212775579 (OP)
Yes but we also have a culture where any systemic problem is blamed on the exploited so we never have to think too hard about it.

>>212775919
>>212775966
>>212775986
>>212776021

it´s true

Recent Numbers (2024)
Consumer Price Index (CPI):
Between 2021 and 2023, overall inflation was about 14%, but wage growth was generally lower, causing an average loss in purchasing power.

Real Earnings:
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (June 2024), real average hourly earnings are down about 3% from early 2021 for nonsupervisory workers.

Declining Purchasing Power of Americans
Over the past several years, the purchasing power of American workers has declined, mainly due to inflation outpacing wage growth. This means that, even if nominal wages are rising, the amount of goods and services people can actually buy with their income has often decreased.

Key Points
Inflation Outpacing Wages:
Since 2021, U.S. inflation surged to levels not seen in decades, particularly after the COVID-19 pandemic. While wages have increased, the rise in consumer prices (food, housing, fuel, etc.) has often been higher.
Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Pew Research Center

Real Wages are Down:
“Real wages” (wages adjusted for inflation) have stagnated or declined for most Americans since 2020. According to Pew Research (2023), median real hourly wages were lower in mid-2023 than before the pandemic, despite nominal wage increases.
Source: Pew Research Center

Cost of Essentials:
Basic costs like rent, groceries, and energy have risen faster than average wages. Many households report spending a higher share of income on essentials, leaving less for discretionary spending.
Source: Bloomberg, CNBC

Long-Term Trend:
Although wage growth has recently picked up in certain sectors, it has not consistently outpaced inflation since the 1970s. Real wage stagnation is a long-term issue in the U.S. economy.
Source: Economic Policy Institute

>GRR!
>we're actually richer than ever because based Trump is collect tariffs o algo!

>the 10 fatest Americans got fater in the past year
It's obvious for anyone who has not been ideologically compromised that for the top anything in a country to overdo itself is not just normal but usually desirable relative to the contrary, when the 10% fatest Americans get fatter it's business as usual, when they get thinner there's probably a famine going on, same for the rich, anywhere.

>>212775919
>Nooo stop being spoiled, stop having terrible spending habits, live like a peasant you fucking goyim!

>>212776081
IT'S FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE CHINESE PROPAGAAAAAAAAAAAAANDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>212775919
>>212775966
>>212776021
Golems like this are why (((billionaires))) are able to get away with whatever they want.

>>212776247
i never understood this concept of fighting for billionaires. they say 'oh they create jobs', buddy if you took that money from them that is invested into markets you could create so much more in consumption and benefit the people. but all billionaires do is park their money.

>>212776160
You don't NEED it.

Go to work for 40 hours.
Pay your taxes.
Eat bread for cheap.
Drink tap water for free.
Pay your rent.
Save $50 a week.
Repeat until retirement.

Stop looking at your boss getting another tax break and buying a new yacht. You don't NEED it.

>>212776546
we should make anti-consumerism a crime

>>212776488
Checked and decades of propaganda have done that to the mutt mind.

>>212776595
Getting a civil war where poor schmucks die to protect the right of the rich to keep slaves was funny ngl

>>212776633
GOOD LUCK TRYING TO BE A BILLIONAIRE!

>>212776488
Billionaires usually have the vast majority of their money in stock of the publicly traded company they created and run, when you see headlines like the one you posted it means those stock prices went up. If you "took" (bought) that "money" (stock) away from them you'll be spending the entire US federal budget multiple times (7 trillion) leaving no money for literally anything else and if you did so without a financial compensation you'd just be making the "money" (stock) you just "took" (robbed) effectively worthless.

>>212775579 (OP)
People living "paycheck to paycheck" are retards who financed a $90,000 truck and order doordash multiple times a week

>>212776081
Most places around the world experienced inflation from 2021-2023. United States was not unique, and actually fared better.

Why are we rehashing this same discussion again? Did it not get rehashed enough during the election last year?

>>212776861
buddy, the price of a stock only has 2 things going for it. the ability to raise more capital by diluting the stock, or leveraging, both which benefit people in 0 ways and only enrich people already invested into the market. nobody is saying to take away everything at once. a reasonable solution is to tax the wealth so they don't become what they are now, a train without brakes. the money put towards the middle class helps consumption and would spur economic activity versus a bunch of fucks parking money making money off having lots of money and which nobody can ever take away from them.

>>212776247
>>212776488
Billionaires are good as long as their wealth was made by adding value to society.

Do leftists ever offer any real solutions or do they just whine about billionaires?

Wages have been outpacing inflation since 2023

>>212777021
the issue is they don't add value to society. the money is parked. they only benefit people with enough capital in the market while the vast majority of people are just getting by and don't have enough investments to make it worth anything. Amazon stock worth 200 today and worth 100 tomorrow does nothing to their bottom line, they will still take orders and sell shit as long as they are making money above their expenses. and even if they have have a year which they lose money there is enough in their savings to ride out.

>>212776997
Wealth taxes are extremely inefficient. They're a terrible tax.
> the money put towards the middle class helps consumption and would spur economic activity versus a bunch of fucks parking money making money off having lots of money and which nobody can ever take away from them.
Billionaires don't just 'park money' it gets invested into stocks.

Getting rich off stock appreciation is good. Getting rich off land appreciation is bad. Two very different things.

>>212775579 (OP)
i hate communists. why do you always complains when capitalism works as intended?

>>212777109
the value of stocks do NOTHING for the middle class. it only helps people who have the capital in the stock and those that are leveraging. like i said, amazon worth 200 dollars a share today and 100 tomorrow does NOTHING to the bottom line. they still have enough money to continue their operations. it's only degenerate gamblers and rich people who benefit from share prices.

>>212777085
Secondary stock exchange absolutely adds value. Its the reward for investing in the company at the initial IPO. Investors buy shares initially so they can eventually sell it on the secondary market. Without the existence of a secondary market, it doesn't work

>leftists want to dismantle our entire financial system because billionaires can use it to get rich
Why don't you people move to a socialist country? You've got Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, and idk that's pretty much it.

>>212777203
that doesn't help the middle class, the class that consumes the most, in any way. it's just rich people with enough money to invest into things that make them more rich. it doesn't affect companies like amazon are all. 200dollars a share? 100 a share? don't fucking matter to them because they are profitable and have not needed to sell shares for decades. tax the people who have ridiculous amounts of those shares. like bezs, zuck, musk. all they do is park their money while the middle class suffers. who the fuck do you think buys their goods? the middle class.

>>212776488
Theyre not good but they're always going to exist in a very wealthy technologically advanced society
Not like we didn't have ultra rich in the past: Rockefeller and Ford for example

>>212777244
Wealth tax is extremely inefficient. Its difficultly to collect and assess, its easy to avoid, and can lead to decreased productivity and capital flight. There's a reason they're so rare despite making a enticing populist target.

If you're actually interested in improving society, advocate for a land value tax.

>>212776546
>You do NOT need to own a home
>You do NOT need to see your family
>You do NOT need to eat good quality food

>You WANT to

>>212775919
>Posted from mommy's basement, eating tendies and collecting disability checks for 'tism

>>212777308
I don't think the food people are spending outrageous amounts of money for on doordash is high quality

>>212777287
buddy have you even seen a chart comparing wealth disparity from the 1900 to now? ford and rockefeller are 100x closer to you as a class than the current class of billionaires. what the fuck.

>>212777137
But aren't like half of Americans invested in the stock market via 401ks? So stock prices do matter at least somewhat

>>212777308
If you want to reduce housing costs, then advocate for YIMBY reforms rather than spouting off about socialist ideas that don't actually work.

>>212777306
a land tax hurts the middle class because guess who owns a fuck ton of it? the middle class, mom and pops. how the fuck is bezos, musk and zuck gonna avoid the america if they got serious? move where? sanctions bitch! all their assets are in america.

>>212777326
>ford and rockefeller are 100x closer to you as a class than the current class of billionaires. what the fuck.
Henry Ford had a networth of about 1.2 billion dollars (not adjusting for inflation)
You're an idiot

>>212777244
This isn't true, companies can raise money for an expansion and the stock price absolutely matters. Tesla did this in 2020.

Secondary stock sales allow people to gain capital and invest it elsewhere also. A system where people invest in the IPO than are just stuck with it is ridiculous

>>212777306
They are rare because in almost every country on earth the wealthy are in control and they dont agree to filthy peasants thinking they can tax the wealth they collected off them

>>212777328
the amount of money they make off the minimal investments they have in there paltry 401k is nothing compared to how much money the billionaires have squirreled away. americans can't even afford to retire with their 401k. 1/2 of ameircans say they don't have enough and 1/4 of seniors are in poverty. its the government that has to provide them SS and medicade that keeps them alive and it's the tax dollars going that.

>>212777324
I don't disagree that the vast majority of people are horrible with they're money. The post is tangential to the thread.
>>212777354
>rather than spouting off about socialist ideas that don't actually work.
Where did i do that?

>>212777380
lmao. from 1940 to now, that networth is 27billion. can you even guess how much current billionairs are worth? zuck is already 400billion and he's not even the richest.

>>212777402
Several countries in Europe created wealth taxes and almost all have repealed them.

The wealth are not in control. Populism is a major (and largely negative) force. That's why we get things like rent control, which is harmful but sounds like a good idea to voters. Unions also have power, often at the expense of society. For instance, New York might pass a law requiring that trains have to have two operators to appease a union. This will lead to degraded train service which will harm the working class.

Wealthy aren't the only special interest in politics.

>>212777458
Absolutely mindbroken muttpost

>>212777372
Mom and pops should move somewhere smaller so a developer can turn their land into multiple homes if they can't afford the land value tax.

>>212777074
the actual inflation rate is like 25%

You could confiscate the wealth of every single billionaire in the United States and we wouldn't be able to use it to run the government for a year.

Anyone saying billionaires hoarding wealth is the reason people suffer is lying to you. We suffer because of scarcity, and some of this scarcity is self-imposed.

>>212777452
So what. 18.5 billion is still unimaginably wealthy.
It's like comparing infinity with infinityx2 who cares

>>212777512
@grok is this true

>>212777532
Plus, Ford workers had horrible conditions.

>>212777458
Why would two operators make the train worse?
That doesn't make any sense. Even if only one was needed. The other would probably just chill or do something else maintenance related

>>212777565
But also wouldn't a union likely want less workers not more?
As having fewer keeps wages inflated

>>212777565
>Why would two operators make the train worse?
It costs more money, so there will be cuts in other areas.

Transit agencies don't have unlimited budgets. When they have to increase spending in some areas, there are cuts in the rest. These cuts will represent degraded service for passengers, who are more likely to be working class.

>>212775966
Chinkshill psyop. It's either one very dedicated chang autist, or a concerted CCP shill operation targeting chinamen browsing on VPNs. I'm leaning towards the latter, as these threads pop up in multiple boards (/k/,/tv/, etc), always to coincidence with some sort of chink development

>>212776891
So 80% of the average middle muttmerican consoomer. It's gonna be real funny watching some fat retard default on 30 burritos he financed with buy now, pay later services

>>212777565
https://www.etany.org/statements/impeding-progress-costing-riders-opto

>>212776997
I fail to see why would anyone expect the stock market to enrich people who don't participate in it, it's like believing crypto is a scam but that you have the right to profit from that scam without investing in it. If the wealth is not real, then what is it that is being taxed? If it's real, then wealth is being created, why would anyone want to stop that train? Just like money "put" towards the middle class spurs economic activity by generating consumption, so does investment from big companies. AI, for example, requires literally multi-billion dollar investments, it's not something you can make in your garage. Ultimately it's just a trade-off between present and future consumption, such as buying a pc or a cellphone back in 2005 vs buying one in 2025, the difference between the quality of goods was realized through investment in R&D.

>>212777664
>financing a Costco hot dog

The American dream...

This is perfectly fine as long as the lines keep going up.

>>212776546
I finally see it. This them being envy and greedy. Like it's both for the poor and rich.

>>212777815
That's usually the case for your heart rate as well

Inequality is good
Cope and seethe

>>212777458
Yes, listen to this guy. The wealthy have no power, it's the populists that are evil and run everything. Soros and the Kochs bow to the awesome might of the Subway Union.

>>212778562
The entire country bows to the elevator union

>>212776685
This wouldve been trve in 2006
You literally cant do anything without the internet kek

>>212776685
Short term homeless can be improved by housing. But in order to have housing to provide to the lowest incomes, we need to be able to build public housing (or purchase devalued market rate housing). The problem is that it is very expensive to build public housing.

If you want public housing to be available to low income people, we need to build it cheaper.

Jesus was opposed to capitalism.

>>212778855
You literally build them out of cardboard, where does that money even go?

>>212778903
le reddit bible is the thing that got us into this shit neo liberal hell in the first place

>>212779108
When you trigger public funding for a project, there's a very rigorous set of rules regarding complex accounting, significant bureaucratic hurdles, unions, minority contractor laws, planning and in California's case, legal feels to fight off frivolous environmental lawsuits. This all gets combined with labor costs.

But building with wood is one thing we do well. Wood is cheaper to build with.

>Tax the rich
>Noooo...why are most of our smartest and most ambitious entrepreneurs, scientists, and engineers leaving the country?

>>212778855
Imagine if there were people who have billions of dollars lying around that they aren't using

>>212779192
It also just doesn't raise very much revenue.

The proposals for wealth tax aren't even meant to generate revenue, they're meant to punish rich people. A pigouvian tax on success

>>212779212
With these costs, $1B gets us a grand total of 1,000 homes. Congratulations guys, the housing crisis is solved.

>>212779192
Those taxes are how you get paid Cpl. Zavala.

>>212776021
I'd rather not pretend things are good and everything is okay just to make my country look better. I'm not Chinese.

>>212779192
Fearmongering bullshit. That effect only happens to thirdie cunts.

>>212775579 (OP)
why didn't Biden tax the rich in the 4 years he had the power to do so?

>>212777525
Uhuh.

>>212779251
Don't ask who dictates those prices

>>212775966
Criticizing your own country is important, especially at a time like this where economic and political factors are really only conspiring to make things harder.
Unless you believe we should all shut up and be blindly loyal to save face? Sounds pretty Chinese to me.

>>212779353
KEK

>>212779385
You don't get it, he has to defend billionaires online without compensation because they'll eventually make him rich in return

>>212779443
Sounds like some Jeet behavior to me.

>>212779353
1. Median income has risen substantially since 1990. This graph is misleading.
2. We as consumers benefit from productivity increases. That's why food, and consumer electronics are so cheap for us. Framing productivity increase as a bad thing not a good way to look at the world. The problem is the industries that productivity has not increased substantially (construction, health care). Increase in productivity has made all our lives better.
3. This is not a refutation to my argument: You can confiscate all the wealth from every billionaire, and you wouldn't be able to run the federal government for a year with it, even if you could liquidate their assets at current market value.

>>212779367
No one 'dictates' these prices.

>>212775966
Slave(russian) mindset

>>212779552
Mhm. And how much have the costs of
>Homes
>Food
>Education
>Utilities
Changed over that time anon?

It's wild that so many billionaires post on /int/

>>212779578
Oh and cars too. I remember when my first car was the cheapest on the lot, and cost me around 6k. Now the cheapest on the lot used car is like 11k.

>>212779552
>That's why food, and consumer electronics are so cheap for us.
Food is expensive as fuck and prices are constantly rising

>>212779625
I'm convinced he's some NEET from a rich family at this point. No way a working class person could hold those views.

>>212775579 (OP)
Oh no.
How dare they make that money without me stealing some of it for reasons.
Now that most of us can no longer afford a minimal quality of life, I am sure we will all starve to death as a homeless rabble in about two more weeks.
This is so sad, Alexa play If I Had A Hammer

>>212779588
i'm posting while driving my bugatti as we speak

>>212775919
I am genuinely extremely poor.
Because I work three shifts a week at Walmart due to being sad and in poor health and my feet hurt too much if I work there more.
Yet somehow I manage to not want other people to be forced to give me their money, something socialists will never be able to comprehend.
Surely I must be such a sucker for not cannibalizing my culture's fundamental consent-based morals for a handout.

>>212776081
Real productivity is down too but they never post that one.
It's always productivity flat and real wages, never the other way around.

>>212779668
>>212779668
What if it's not about a handout anon. What if it's about making life better for everybody. I know we have absolute zero trust in the government, and for some reason that extends to government services that DO actually do good. But what if. Just entertain that thought.

>>212779552
You're such a pathetic little cock sucker lol
Why do you love billionaires so much?

>>212775579 (OP)
I feel let down because of all the doom posting about life being impossible but it turns out living on any full time job is extremely easy and you can save a ton while drinking and eating out with basically no effort

>>212779578
1. For food, Americans pay lowest in the entire world for groceries as a percentage of income. Our food production requires very little labor, especially grain production.
2. For homes, there has been no productivity increase in construction. You would have realized I said this if you actually bothered to read the post. I don't see how this is blamed on billionaires, they're not responsible for being unproductive in home building. The blame (well besides the relative lack of technological improvements) would be placed on over-regulation. Zoning and parking minimums are promoted and defended by middle class home owners. Double staircase law is promoted by fire unions. Expensive elevators is mandated by the elevator union, who prevents their own automation. Rent control is promoted by left wing populists, and ultimately depresses construction. Many oppose construction happening at all, including middle class home owners and leftists believing it causes gentrification. I feel to see how billionaires are responsible for this (besides the ones profiting from appreciation of the unimproved value of land).
3. Higher education is expensive due to a variety of factors. Increased services, administrative bloat (most universities employ more admin staff than academic staff) and loans allowing universities to raise tuition and state governments to reduce funding are to blame. I don't see how billionaires are to blame for this.

>>212779625
>>212779634
United States is lowest in the world on percentage income spent on food.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-consumer-expenditure-spent-on-food

>>212779699
I feel the same way. Even cunts here that live on welfare can afford copious amounts of alcohol and weed, we're spoiled.

There's one Maori guy at work that lives with his parents who Uberjeets every meal.

>>212779693
Not a convincing argument.

I simply want real solutions, not virtue signaling about how billionaires are bad. I want politicians interested in figuring out how we can increase productivity. We need politicians to look into administrative bloat in health care, not tout unrealistic fantasies of nationalizing every hospital and health insurance company. We need politicians who offer real solutions to housing production, not advocate for rent control. We need politicians who will look into how we can reduce educational cost, not try to make university tuition-free and cancel all student debt.

>>212779722
That's percentage of expenditures, not percentage of income.

>>212779768
>not virtue signaling about how billionaires are bad.
But they are bad. They do tax evasion at a massive scale using LLC and off shore tax havens, they distort our ostensibly democratic political system, and many of them use their insane wealth to cover up crimes of staggering proportions.
I really dislike how you're doing this framing wherein everyone who disagrees with you or dislikes billionaires is automatically a radical progressive who wants to nationalize every industry.
Billionares may not be at the root of every problem out there, but they're certainly are the cause of many.
you're one of those "abundance agenda" libertarian-adjacent democrats who just repeats talking points fed to you from think tanks
all of your posts read like something written by bot not a real human

>>212776118
>>212776134
>>212776160
See it's funny because you call us all heartless capitalists or whatever but you are full time and overtime obsessed with how we DARE be evil enough not to steal other peoples' money and drive yourselves into psychopath tantrums about how indoctrinated and bootlicking we must be to not be obsessed with stealing other peoples' money
>>212779690
>what if I rephrase it using the typical manipulative "but focus on this instead!" reductivism Marxists never stop doing and try to make this about your emotions to establish myself as a logical moral authority
What if a hundred years of eroding consenting systems, agitating in universities and among criminals and layabouts, and advocating for government fascism while calling all "obstructionists" fascists in order to get the feds to steal for you wasn't good for our country at all, and you're still this much of a rabid psychopath about this country specifically because we're the ones who didn't just submissively drown?
What if I, the proletariat, prefer you to face the wall BEFORE you fuck everything that's left, and not after?
What if the policies you DID get through are responsible for the lion's share of the corruption and scarcity that you conveniently blamed on "late stage capitalism" which showed up just in time to conceal the inevitable, repetitive effects of mid-stage socialism?
What if "universal healthcare" turned out to fucking suck so bad, like I said it would as a teenager back when every asshole on /int/ was SURE it was the right idea, that only Scandinavians can even pretend to pull it off and everyone else is coming here to pay exorbitant fees to avoid dying on a waitlist?

>>212779835
Billionares are bad but let's not pretend most of the hatred against them is sour grapes jelly envy. I hate leftists with an entitlement to the resources of other people so much more than billionaires.

Imagine being anything other than a neoliberal.

Time to grow up.

>>212779722
This data is misleading because Americans spend less of their money on groceries because we eat out at restaurants more often. The average American spends more money eating at restaurants than on groceries.

>>212779768
That's ridiculous. There's no level of reducing "bloat" (DOGE 2.0?) that's going to magically make health care as accessible as it is in every other first-world country in the world. Housing isn't expensive because of the "elevator union" (WTF?). We live in the wealthiest and most prosperous country in the world. There's no reason education can't be substantially more affordable, if not entirely tuition-free. And no, it's not because universities have too many people working in the bursar's office (yes, turns out you do need administrative staff to actually run the place).

Yes, if you want social services like a modern developed country has you have to tax people to pay for it. There's nothing for free; no amount of deregulation fantasies are going to change that.

>>212779845
Hey Kiwi, I've been to New Zealand. Nice country.
But looking at how your country does not have most of the Bulge bracket banks operating and none of the strategy consulting firms like BCG and Bain. I can't help but think your country is not serious about industrialization. Do you think your country deserve a lot more meme jobs like IT?

>>212779843
>>212779690
What if your constant mindless screeching about how all cops are bad and all corporations are evil and everything is corrupt and how we HAVE to steal from people or kill them rather than actually expose and litigate corruption because "the whole system has to go" ended up putting multiple generations of evil, corrupt people in power due to YOUR "movement" CONSTANTLY sabotaging any normal efforts to work within the existing system to punish and excise corruption with constant demoralization and coopting every case and every watchdog group with your poisonous bullshit just like every feminist who ever protected her rapist while saying "the problem is systematic it's all men"?
What if risk still exists in the real world, so "profit is exploitation" as a propaganda piece only serves to gloss over and normalize actual exploitation, you stupid piece of shit?
Hey what if you read some fucking books for a change rather than be a full time authoritarian shill identifying as a libertine "for the people" "to catch up to Europe"?
>>212779693
You don't have to like, care about, be affiliated with, or even be concerned with any group of people to uphold basic human standards towards them. You just have to not be a thieving. seething hypocrite with aspirations of being a petty tyrant and "getting back at" people who haven't wronged you, don't know you exist, and worst crime of all don't care about your miserable petty envious self.
That's their huge crime, "they don't care about us".
Yeah if I were gazillionaire I'd be actively seeking the death of people like you, not trying to help you. Because you're evil ankle-biting tyrant faggots who perpetually excuse your own amoral, violent, anti-consent animosity while hating them for just not giving you free shit.
I wish everyone who has ever thought like you would fucking die, frankly, and it doesn't rely on any affinity for anyone else, you're just that horrible and evil.

>>212779845
>let's not pretend most of the hatred against them is sour grapes jelly envy.
Envy is a natural emotion to feel when seeing someone living a life of staggering luxury. And for many of them they did nothing to earn that wealth they just happened to be born into a wealthy well connected family.
But lets not pretend the dishonesty of intention doesn't go both ways.
Billionaires often veil their cynical self interest in humanitarian and technocratic terms to try to make their extreme power and hold over society more palatable

>>212779668
You've never benefited from public services ever? Never gone to public school, never visited the library, never driven on a road? Are you Amish or something?

>>212779875
>This data is misleading because Americans spend less of their money on groceries because we eat out at restaurants more often
If someone is hurting for money, they probably shouldn't be eating at restaurants so much.

>>212779313
So america?

>>212779924
People eat cheap fast food to save money because grocery prices are high and rising rapidly

>>212779962
Also, whether or not eating out is a rational decision isn't really relevant. The simple fact is that the reason Americans spend less money on groceries is because they're eating fast food instead. You trying to use that spending data as proof that prices are lower is misleading and wrong. Prices are actually up significantly per the department of agriculture numbers (https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-price-outlook/summary-findings)

>Food prices rose faster than overall inflation. The CPI for all food increased 0.3 percent from April 2025 to May 2025. Food prices in May 2025 were 2.9 percent higher than in May 2024.
>Egg prices are predicted to increase 33.2 percent in 2025
>Beef and veal prices are predicted to increase 6.8 percent in 2025

>>212779891
You're deranged. Sure sign of a deranged mind is when someone uses caps that much
These people pal around on their pedo islands free of pretty much all social and legal consequences. They can commit crimes at a staggering scale and get a slap on the wrist for it
Have zero interest in your cocksucking defense of these vermin

>>212779880
>Housing isn't expensive because of the "elevator union"
Not the sole reason, but it is a reason
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/08/opinion/elevator-construction-regulation-labor-immigration.html
I also mentioned several other explanations in the post that you responded to, you just picked one of 6 culprits I named.
> There's no level of reducing "bloat" (DOGE 2.0?) that's going to magically make health care as accessible as it is in every other first-world country in the world
Healthcare admin bloat absolutely is a major factor in healthcare cost. There are 10 admins for every doctor.
Of course, you can't just randomly fire people without knowing what you're doing as Elon did, you have to simplify the amount of paperwork that actually needs to be done.
>There's no reason education can't be substantially more affordable, if not entirely tuition-free. And no, it's not because universities have too many people working in the bursar's office (yes, turns out you do need administrative staff to actually run the place).
Making universities tuition free without reducing the amount of they cost would be a major tax sink. That would not be positive for our country.
And we of course need some admin staff, but we don't need to have more admin staff than educators.
>Yes, if you want social services like a modern developed country has you have to tax people to pay for it.
You're not going to be able to pay for this just through taxing the rich, you would have to increase taxes on every income level. Again, the total wealth of every billionaire is less than the annual federal budget. Their money doesn't go as far as you think it would.

most of america's problem is that we waste absolutely mind boggling sums of money doing things in the most retarded way possible such as our healthcare system or our boner for cars and roads or letting retarded private interests meddle in infrastructure policy. the wealthy do not need tax cuts though they're already at capacity reinvesting wealth even with the sky high interest.

>>212779962
>>212779995
Fast food is not cheaper than groceries. And fast food inflation has outpaced grocery inflation.
>The simple fact is that the reason Americans spend less money on groceries is because they're eating fast food instead. You trying to use that spending data as proof that prices are lower is misleading and wrong.
Why don't you back this up with a source.

Anyways, if you've ever actually been to western europe you would notice that food prices are generally comparable and the median income is significantly lower.

>>212779706
>Our food production requires very little labor, especially grain production.
now take into account the cost of food-induced diseases.
>housing regulations are imposed by unions
what kind of Rand-tier retardation is this? housing regulations are for safety and land management first. do you think we should have done nothing when entire cities burned down due to uncontrolled planning?

>>212779928
No we're only a thirdie cunt if you're poor. Otherwise we're one of the best firstie cunts.
Money = Freedom o algo

>>212779845
>private property is only possible because people collectively accept to enforce it
>"why are you entitled to the resources of other people????"
because there's no such thing as "your" resources. there's only the resources you are allowed to exploit based on the current system you didn't create and cannot enforce by yourself. in other words, you're only asking people to stay naive enough to think that most of your wealth is "natural".

>>212780098
You can have safety regulations. You don't need to have regulations preventing elevators from being pre-assembled. One is necessary. One is unnecessary and is parasitic.

The main regulations I'm referring to however are restrictive zoning preventing density and requiring parking spaces be built with each development. This has nothing to do with fire prevention. No fire has ever been caused because someone built an apartment building next to a single family home.

>>212780081
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-day-retail-sales-grocery-stores-vs-restaurants/
From US census data.

>Anyways, if you've ever actually been to western europe you would notice that food prices are generally comparable and the median income is significantly lower.
This is anecdotal, but also doesn't really mean anything. Your original claim was that we pay uniquely low prices for food due to billionaires increasing productivity. If that were true, shouldn't our prices be significantly lower than countries that are much less productive?

>>212780098
>housing regulations are for safety and land management first
in theory they should be but in the US because local interests have so much power in land management the amount of bloat in zoning and regulations inflates costs

why do americans like to suck billionaire cock so much?

>>212780098
>housing regulations are for safety and land management first.
lmao

>>212779891
I never thought seeing somenone spitting out the
>but how does that affect (You) personally???
meme completely unironically.

>>212780191
>Your original claim was that we pay uniquely low prices for food due to billionaires increasing productivity.
The businesses who have increasingly mechanized agriculture have.
>If that were true, shouldn't our prices be significantly lower than countries that are much less productive?
It is. Our at home food spending is less than half of European countries.

Now why don't you provide evidence for your claim that USA spends significantly more than European countries in food away from home, so much that it explains the first stat. You must have evidence since you're convinced of this.

>>212780188
>I am forced to build a parking for my 12th car instead of taking the public transportation I don't want to pay for either
>the West has fallen, Ayn Rand was 100% right

>>212780225
in a normal system yes. shocking I know.

>>212780282
>Our at home food spending is less than half of European countries.
Nigger, it isn't even from your own source. Scroll down to the bottom left of the screen and click on the chart that shows food price vs share of expenditure and put your mouse over the dots of any country in Europe, the actual raw spending numbers are all lower than the USA, the ratio is just higher because they have less income and eat out less often.
>Now why don't you provide evidence for your claim that USA spends significantly more than European countries in food away from home
Are you stupid? I already explained it with my first stat. Americans spent 30% more on going out than on groceries according to 2023 census data. Considering Americans earn more than Europeans, this shows that they spend significantly more. If you want to compare this to UK data (https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-uk-household-budget)
>the average UK household now spend £3,700 a year on groceries and non-alcoholic drinks at home
>Eating and drinking out consumes a further £1,278 from our household budgets
Which is significantly less

>>212775919
>just consume less so that the heckin billionaires can consume more, goy

That much denial.
How great is the USA and the most famous slogan is
¨Make America great Again¨?
Literally every social indicator is getting worse in the US.

It's really hard and expensive to find decent food and ingredients in america. What they eat literally kills them at 70 years old. Americans die 10 years younger than Europeans

>>212780400
>the ratio is just higher because they have less income and eat out less often
That's the relevant indicator. Raw spending is irrelevant, and is influenced by local labor costs.

Also, the entire way you're looking at this is flawed. Americans spending on away from home food being slightly higher than food at home doesn't mean they actually eat out more than eat at home, since food away from home is more expensive.

Food away from home is not a necessary expense. It is a luxury expense. It should not be lumped into food at home.

Does the creation of billionnaires who are prominent in one particular industry lead to its consolidation, lack of competition, and potential monopolies that invite gubmint intervention to force them into retirement and seek new social goals like providing an emotional support animal for everyone, o algo?

>>212780464
No it isn't. Fresh produce is easily accessible and cheap.

People die early because they consume too much (food, also opioids).

>>212780498
That's why you have anti-trust laws. Easy solution to this.

>>212780515
And it's all sprayed with chemicals and pesticides that you also consume
Your meat is riddled with poop and full of antibiotics

>>212780527
Provide me a scientific study showing that chemicals and pesticides have a significant impact on American life span

Does the creation of billionnaires ,who are prominent in one particular industry, lead to its consolidation, lack of competition, and potential monopolies that will invite gubmint intervention, forcing these people into retirement and encouraging them to seek new social goals like providing an emotional support animal for everyone, o algo?

>>212780464
but you don't understand, it's the SOCIALISTS who convinced you that you need free suff paid with MY money. while I chosed by my OWN FREE WILL to pay to stuff myself with delicious corn syrup from Corn Inc.
you are brainwashed, I'm free.

>>212780523
So our capitalist laws do correct market failures, potentially giving billionnaires epiphanies prompting them to use their talents and extraodinary wealth for stuff other than commerce?

>>212780538
There are literally hundreds of studies that show that chemicals and pesticides in food have a bad impact on human health

https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=pesticides+on+human+health&oq=pesticides+on+#d=gs_qabs&t=1752560040594&u=%23p%3DQNxFUxghd8sJ

https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=food+chemicals+on+human+health&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1752560169500&u=%23p%3DSULNw-Y-LB4J

>>212780523
>sorry gentlemen, you can only own up to 95% of the country's wealth. 99% is pushing it a bit.

>>212780549
No one is forced to eat corn syrup. Its extremely easy to avoid not eating sugar.

Just don't buy it lol. Every item at a grocery store has nutrional facts that state how many grams of sugar are in the product. Obesity is people's personal fault, and it is a personal problem, not a social problem.

In fact, obesity is actually a positive for society since every obese person who dies an early death is less burden on our social security and medicare system. If the American life span was a long as the Netherlands, our social security and medicare would be in a worse situation than it is now. Same for tobacco, we should be thanking tobacco companies.

>>212780538
>goyslop is only a meme
now this is getting ridiculous

>>212780586
Provide evidence that significant enough amounts of pesticide residue is left on American produce to have an effect on health.

You made the claim, back it up

>>212780609
Bro it's in like 90% of items. Only way to avoid it is to just shop for produce and meats.

>>212775919

Its called relative poverty

The americna working class produces millons upon millons of goods, yet they're unable to buy them for themselves

This is because the rate of surplus value in America has increased in the last couple of decades (which is what this news article show)


At one pole of capitalist society stands the capitalists, accumulating more wealth, at the other stand the workers, accumulating more misery.

>>212780679
No it isn't. I do not buy a single thing with high fructose corn syrup. If its in 90% of foods you buy, you're likely eating predominantly ultra processed foods, which is a personal failing on your part.

>>212780609
>obesity is actually a positive for society since every obese person who dies an early death is less burden on our social security and medicare system.
You are a psycho. Crazy to think how there are people like you just walking around in public

>>212780636
Crops are continiously sprayed with pesticides. It's not a wild thought that it will end up on your plate too

>Pesticides are one of the major inputs used for increasing agricultural productivity of crops. The pesticide residues, left to variable extent in the food materials after harvesting, are beyond the control of consumer and have deleterious effect on human health

https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=pesticides+residues&oq=pesticides+re#d=gs_qabs&t=1752560850209&u=%23p%3D8H8ro9-DYbMJ

this thread definitively proved that Americans are mentally ill.
what a great market opportunity for European pharma.

>taxes are... le bad

Amerimutts are ok, by being slaves to those who really love to avoid paying taxes. No wonder why that cretin (Trump) is in charge in that place.

>>212781134
working for the state is not slavery because...it just isn't ok

Perhaps the real wealth was the capital gains taxes we didn't pay along the way?

>>212781151
I'm not against entrepreneurs, retard. I'm totally fine, if the state would finance your project (if it's a good one).

But in order for such thing, money that the government is giving you, comes from fucking taxes.

There's a reason why retards like you had the opportunity to go school, have free healthcare, etc. Not everyone wants to bankrupt the richest CEO, you moron.

Everything cool but left wing socialism means brown people controls your government and institutions because its egalitarian

Otherwise it means financing every single degenerate lifestyle and providing it survives, abundance breeds disorder.
Welfare states can be saturated with strains that degenerate
Only -so many things- can survive in them
And among those things only -so many ethnic groups and agendas- can survive among them.

America is becoming poorer because the capitalist class (especialy jews) are deliberately cheapening labour by facilitating migration
Which also helps them remain in power

>>212779891
>unironically replying to economically illiterate poorfags who want to circlejerk about le billionaires stole my tendies

>>212779108
Israel

>>212780920
Denmark is earning billions from selling ozempic medicine to obese americans

>>212775919
imagine being this much of a cuck

>>212780212
It's unironically his job. For somebody who supposedly has "3 jobs", he sure can spend 8 hours defending billionaires online. Constantly.

I honestly feel bad about burgers. They have been socially engineered to believe they are the greatest and everyone else is poor while they live in styrophoam toothpick houses and are 500k in debt.
They even have credit lines for buying hot dogs look it up

lol

>>212775579 (OP)
They voted for it see>>212775919

>>212779192
Yes because it’s the engineers and scientists that are billionaires and not their bosses

lol

>>212775919
This, Americans need to cut back on their streaming services and medical insurance so that billionaires can have more money.

>>212779192
Scientists and engineers don't factor into this equation unless they themselves are entrepreneurs and OWNERS.

Life in America isn’t bad at all unless you sabotage yourself through thoughtlessness.

>>212775579 (OP)
>distribute 365bn$ to the population
>each person gets a 1000$ one-time payment
>the poor remain poor and nothing changes
it always the rich people's fault

>>212775919
Slave

>>212775919
Nuclear TRVKE

>>212788029
it would be $1,000 a year if you confiscated the benefits of only the 10 richest, not even diminushing their established net worth.
now apply that to the 10,000 richest and each citzen get ~$10,000 a year, enough to pay studies for example.
continue to the 100,000 richest and so on, you see the trick.

>>212779552
Uhuh.

>>212779552
Uhuh.

>>212788749
You can confiscate every dime from every billionaire, somehow liquidate all their assets at present market value, and it wouldn't cover the federal budget for a single year.
>>212790333
Housing costs are caused by over-regulation and lack of productivity gains in construction, not billionaires.

Scarcity is the problem, not inequality. There are too few homes.

>>212790607
Uhuh.

>>212790694
Now you've transitioned from whining about billionaires to nativism?
H1B visas are very good for our country. Productivity gains in technological development are enjoyed by everyone.

Transitioning to open borders and a more liberal immigration policy would benefit our society. If those 9,000 who got laid off are better than the 14,181 H1B workers and could do what job is needed more effectively, then they would not have been laid off. Layoffs, while suck temporarily for the individual, keep our society more productive since they allocate our labor in a more efficient way.

But ultimately no one is owed any job. Jobs are our way to provide value to society and get rewarded with money. Jobs aren't a scarce resource that needs to be distributed to only native citizens, and there's not a fixed number of jobs. 14,000 H1B visas doesn't mean 14,000 less Americans have a job, that's just not how it works.

>>212790607
>You can confiscate every dime from every billionaire, somehow liquidate all their assets at present market value, and it wouldn't cover the federal budget for a single year.
reuse all that money to invest in public infrastructures and holdings and all future benefits would come directly to said federal budget.
>inb4 commie
billionaires are not managers

>>212790883
>H1B visas are very good for our country
SAAAAAAR DO NOT REDEEM THE INDIAN AMERICAN HOUSEHOLDS WE ARE #1 USA BILLIONAIRES SAAR WE ARE BRAHMIN YOU ARE DALIT COMMIE YOU BASTERD BLOODY BITCH

Just kill the rich if they avoid paying taxes. It's that fucking easy, Jesus Christ.

>>212790883
>Responding to 1 word answers with a fucking thesis

You're either AI or retarded.

>>212790883
>We suffer from scarcity, it’s not billionaires
>Billionaires are introducing scarcity, but we don’t suffer from it

>>212779668
You literally need to be a retarded and decrepit slave to gladly accept the status quo? Shocker.

>>212780037
>And we of course need some admin staff, but we don't need to have more admin staff than educators.
You absolutely need more admin staff than educators. There's a lot involved in running a university besides having some old fuck stand in front of a powerpoint and give a lecture.

>You're not going to be able to pay for this just through taxing the rich
Every other developed country on Earth has these services financed through taxes. You don't have to indulge in some kind of ridiculous techno-libertarian fantasy to have them. This isn't some pie-in-the-sky moonshot that requires innovative methods to achieve.

>>212790883
>then they would not have been laid off
H1B pajeets are cheaper and easier to keep in line. Abuse of the system is rampant. Good for the company hiring them, not so good if you care about the people who actual live in the country.

>But ultimately no one is owed any job.
The Government absolutely "owes" it to the native-born population to ensure that they can earn good jobs and generate wealth. If they don't, they'll quickly find they're no longer the Government as foreigners cannot vote.

>>212779843
>>212779891
>leftist memes be like

>>212790883
I pay taxes to a government, they give me infrastructure. I am owed access to a job over a foreigner who has contributed nothing that is using a government system to fuck me out of it.

No, but this happens in yours :^)

another 1 million immigrants from Jan-July 2025 I've heard! How long until we call you New Bharat?

>>212791707

A government serves the people, end of story. Don't ever explain yourself to morons who pretend like it's the other way around. When a government stops serving its citizens it is now an imposter and invalid, fit for removal. We are within our rights to burn it all down at this point.

>>212791509
>>212791707
What makes you more entitled to live and work in the United States than anyone else?

You didn't earn your US citizenship. You were simply born into it out of luck. You're not owed anything. If you want a job that pays better than the median, you need to add value. No one is entitled to be above the median.

>>212793066
>What makes you more entitled to live and work in the United States than anyone else?
By virtue of being born here. A country is more than an economic unit or a set of lines on a GDP graph. My ancestors helped build this country in the hopes of securing a better life for their children.

More practically, if a country doesn't protect the interests of its people it will lose the consent of the governed. Historically, all kinds of bad things happen with that occurs.

>You didn't earn your US citizenship. You were simply born into it out of luck.
I don't think "luck" is the right word to use here. If I wasn't American, I wouldn't be Indian or Thai or Japanese. I just wouldn't exist at all. I didn't just pop into existence by mere happenstance and happen to land here like Superman. My birth was a long series of lineages and events going back into time immemorial.

>>212793066
Yeah, this is unbelievably retarded normally, but I get that it’s just a sign of the times and not fully your fault. My parents contributed to the system, and like most parents, they are heavily vested in my wellbeing. Governments serve the local people that fall within their governance, and one of if not the chief concern of a people is the wellbeing of their children. To try and claim that it’s “luck” I was born here is appealing to the idea that we’re all free floating souls that happened to funnel into vessels on the planet. I am my father’s and mother’s son, and I inherit their responsibilities and privileges from the government of their homeland.

>>212794226
>My birth was a long series of lineages and events going back into time immemorial.
and most probably only the last one or two were in the US.

>>212794674
>muh USA is a country of immigrants
All countries outside of, what, some undefined borders in Africa? My mother’s big on genealogy since my father’s side has Mormon roots, I know what my great great great great great grandparents were doing in Salt Lake City, and I doubt you know shit about 4 generations back. My ancestors built this place to what it is, H1-B’s are setting foot here for the first time yesterday.

>>212795122
>SAAAR I AM ORIGINAL AMERICAN BRAHMIN SAAAR YOU ARE DALIT PEASANT YOU BLOODY BASTERD
sure thing, Rajesh.

>>212790883
>But ultimately no one is owed any job.
they hated him because he told the truth

>>212791707
You're owned a basic standard of living, not employment.

>>212775579 (OP)
I hate status quo conservatives

I can't wait till they and the penny pinchers die

>>212779342
Because the dems in power of Democratic party are just like the boomercons excerpt they give less of a tax cut


Both parties have to fight the culture war as fighting over economics is a losing game for both as they will be couped by economic populists

>>212779835
>you're one of those "abundance agenda" libertarian-adjacent democrats who just repeats talking points fed to you from think tanks

Boomercons reps are even worse than dems in doing this
T. Third Generation Republican

>>212787714
>Americans need to cut back on their streaming services
Cutting back on streaming services should be mandatory, aka streaming services should be banned

Billionaires are a cancer and need to be excised

>>212790883
>H1B visas are very good for our country
This user is Indian

Also only boomercons, libertarians and Status quo liberals push H1bs

and the only the libertarians have people below the age of 50

Yes. 30 years ago the average Greek man could travel with his family on an island for a 2 week vacation. Now his university degree trained children serve foreigners for minimum wage in island resorts.

>>212796709
Importing labor is the main reason your country is successful, dumb amerimutt. You sap the productive potential from your rivals.

>>212775919
projecting

>>212775579 (OP)
it's, socioeconomic inequality is even greater in this shithole I live

>>212775919
I've lived there with acquaintances for months and know full well what the standards of living are. A person with a full time job cannot afford to rent housing in that area. We're talking workers which the government deemed ESSENTIAL during the pandemic, people without which the system collapses within days. They can't afford a home and food, that's before any personal spending, the numbers just don't add up. Nevermind prosperity, survival isn't an option. They're all forced to cohabitate. If the people necessary for the system to even function can't be payed well enough for basic survival the system is dying, this is a terminal situation.

>>212795208
You don’t know what Mormon is and you’re pretending to be white. Retreat and try again elsewhere.

>>212797640
> A person with a full time job cannot afford to rent housing in that area.
Shit is getting bad here, but tbf someone like that could probably just move to a cheaper area and commute
>We're talking workers which the government deemed ESSENTIAL
That rhetoric was always condescending and two-faced. The ones they call "essential" are the ones they treat as the least essential

>>212777372
>guess who owns a fuck ton of it? the middle class, mom and pops
false

>>212777592
they can reduce a fraction of the high tier employees' salary to cover for the new operators

>>212799427
If we can reduce high tier employees salaries without any consequences, lets just do that and not hire any new operators, and use the money to improve service, such as increasing frequency, reliability, cleanliness and safety, which will be enjoyed by the riders.

The reality is that reducing MTA higher tier salaries is not going to happen and isn't going to cover hiring a bunch of new operators if it did.

>>212799427
why should high tier employees that actually do something be paid less so useless employees can be hired?

>>212779212
injecting that money in the market will increase inflation, proportionally raising the building costs
money hoarding by billionaires decreases the cost of things

>>212790883
HB visas bring nothing but destruction and rape