American cities weren’t always concrete and asphalt parking lot hellscapes

that's not even the same place

>>212844200
It is, it’s Kansas City, an area called The Junction
Everything with even a hint of SOVL was demolished

Why did you destroy it all?

>>212844244
WE NEED TO BUILD A HIGHWAY
ONE MORE LANE BRO

>>212844148 (OP)
The buildings most likely fell into disrepair before they were demolished. They weren't just demolished to become a parking lot, post-WW2 white flight basically destroyed the inner cities until the wave of gentrification starting in the 1990's, and today the trend is reversing in urban cores.

>>212844148 (OP)
I really wish urbanists would focus on reforming land use today rather than whining about shit that happened 50 years ago. The former is much more constructive.

>>212844244
white flight killed the tax base of cities and nobody maintained the buildings.

>>212844244
Destruction must precede Creation

>>212844148 (OP)

>>212844319
>why rebuild or restore like any other country when you can demolish it and build a road?

>>212844617
Restoring buildings is expensive, and in the 1970's no developer is going to take on that expense when there is no return on investment.

>>212844244
it was probably cheaper
lot of those buildings only got retrofitted with proper plumbing, central heating and everyone having a bathroom later on

>>212844718
>>212844819
The fact that almost everyone in the USA wants a house and condos/apartment seen as this low class thing makes them all look absolute shite due to lack of demand

>>212844594
charlotte urban renewal is kinda janky tho. basically they took all of the old abandoned industrial areas that used to line the train tracks and built high density apartment buildings. the dichotomy between the apartment buildings and the older neighborhoods that surround it is insane. there's little to no medium-density anywhere in the city.

Cities have always been toilets. Why does it matter to you whether or not your toilet is walkable?

>>212844319
>white flight basically destroyed the inner cities

Is that what you say to try to make the behavior of African-Americans look less bad? It's almost like you want to blame white people for white flight when most would have stayed in those neighborhoods if a certain group never showed up.

>>212844894
>there's little to no medium-density anywhere in the city.
Not really true, there's lots of townhomes that get built. The areas that are gentrifying will have more middle housing as time goes on, since if you're already demoing a home on an older lot may as well fit in multiple units rather than just one.

There's a decent amount of middle housing in Dilworth (older neighborhood to the east), but it is predominantly large single family homes.

>>212844244
We did the same shit in a lot of Australia. Melbourne could've been a million times nicer if they preserved more of its Victorian heritage

>>212844871
A lot of the oddly shaped exteriors comes from design guidelines forcing them to "break up the facade".

I also don't think its really true that condos and apartments are considered a lower-class thing. Especially if we're counting townhouse condos- those go for $600k minimum where I'm at.

>>212845156
It would be incredibly expensive to build with victorian style today. That style was from a time where labor was cheaper.

If everything was built like that today, housing costs would go through the roof.

>>212845185
Bullshit, we have machinery that can literally carve elaborate sculptures and 3D print shit a million times more elaborate than the bulk of Victorian facades. A lot of what we call "nice Victorian" houses back then were literally the plebian mass produced units of their day too. It's all about fashionable trends.

>>212845162
>A lot of the oddly shaped exteriors comes from design guidelines forcing them to "break up the facade".

Idk I have seen what kind of apartment they build in like LA and many of them look so fucking bad like it would look bad in an Eastern European country yet alone a rich US city. They use shit materials and cheap out on everything. Like look at pic related, what the fuck is this lol?

>>212845333
Or like this. cmon bro..

>>212845382

>>212845292
>A lot of what we call "nice Victorian" houses back then were literally the plebian mass produced units of their day
This is a FACT that many do not realize. People think old buildings were a labor of love and care. Some exceptional buildings were, but in reality the vast majority were mass-produced just like today. The modern styling is still completely soulless thoughever.

>>212845333
>>212845382
They're 5 over 1 buildings (or possibly 3 over 1 hard to tell).

It's the most efficient way to build in the United States. Up to 5 stories of wood (type V) over a concrete podium (type I). They look fine, not every building needs to be a work of art.

>>212845401
And we have a shit-ton of low quality new apartments too of course. I'm sure the avg square meter here for new construction is much much lower. A lot of them are overly dense with balconies looking at each other
But only in USA you find those apartment that look like you just asked ChatGPT to scale up a trailer park into an apartment complex.
Pic rel is what I would consider nice in Hungary, should not be hard to beat this on average in a city that is much richer

oh god are those old buildings being destroyed and new buildings being contructed?
HELP ME FELLOW REDDITORS I'M GOING INSANE

>>212845482
Wooden construction (not counting mass timber) is illegal in most of Europe for midrise I believe.

>>212845549
We never used wood for anything really
Peasant homes were made out of adobe

>>212845630
Wood is more efficient to use and as long as the first floor is concrete than the fire risk is basically non-existent.

Housing would be more expensive in the USA if we didn't build with wood

>>212845538
new buildings didnt replace them asphalt did you faggot

What I hate about most new development is the size. They often take up an entire city block, with 1-2 centralized entrances. This creates soulless streetscapes where an entire block is a concrete wall with no features.

In the past, buildings were built on narrower plots side-by-side, each one a different project with unique results. The streets were lined with entrances to businesses and homes.

>>212845462
>They look fine, not every building needs to be a work of art.
it looks absolutely atrocious bro lol. if an apartment looks literally worse than the mass produced new junk in eastern europe you fucked up

>>212845736
youre never going to convince any people to move into an apartment when you build shit like this

>>212845725
That's because every unit has to have access to a minimum of two staircases. This makes building smaller apartments nearly impossible.
>>212845736
I care about how much rent is not what the facade looks like.

Why do Americans say that destroying all those buildings was inevitable and were expensive to preserve, but most countries in the world keep their old buildings until today?

>>212845795
you dont need to convince anyone when prices for houses are so high the only new construction is apartments

>>212845834
those buildings are fucking useless
dont even want them
paris and lisbon should be torn down and something functional actually built there

>>212845834
Its not inevitable, but white flight greatly decreased the demand in cities which left a massive gap in the middle of the 20th century where nobody wanted to maintain old buildings.

>>212845861
USA is a rich as fuck country bro there is no way you have to make those apartment looks like utter junk for "cost saving" reason lol. Buildings at those height are easy as shit, they dont require deep foundation, fancy cranes, reinforced expensive concrete, etc. it is as basic as it gets
Theres no excuse why new apartment neighborhoods cant look at least like this in the USA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ea9ASoa0Y

>>212844148 (OP)
the problem is retarded building codes in coastal cities and new york you retard

>>212845736
Who is 'you' in this case? These buildings are built by private developers who are building for what the market demands.

And the government should not impose over-restrict design standards that increase construction costs.

>>212845921
bro i went to salt lake city the other week
every single newerish building i saw looked better than that one in the video
why dont you actually walk around cities like slc or charlotte to get a real idea of where construction trends are going?

>>212845921
Those buildings look like crap

>>212845921
I really don't think this neighborhood looks that much better than where I live in Charlotte and I'm not going to pay more in rent to make it look like it does in the video.

>>212845932
>And the government should not impose over-restrict design standards
Developed countries all impose standards to make the place more pleasant, this is totally normal. In fact places that are already developed or wealthier tend to impose more standards. You always have to give up freedom to have a civilization, it is all about balance. Just look at Switzerland. Lot of rules

>>212845949
>every single newerish building i saw looked better
Yeah that is not hard to imagine as these are basically just mass manufactured cheap cubes with little detail right. My point was that something like this should be an absolutely bare minimum meanwhile in Los Angeles they are building shit that looks like >>212845861
>>212845795

No one denies there is not better stuff being built but the standard should not be this
Idk about other cities I mostly checked out LA

>>212846086
>Developed countries all impose standards to make the place more pleasant, this is totally normal. In fact places that are already developed or wealthier tend to impose more standards. You always have to give up freedom to have a civilization, it is all about balance. Just look at Switzerland. Lot of rules
We already have more than enough rules regarding housing, we certainly shouldn't be adding more to satisfy anyone's arbitrary aesthetic preferences.

In fact, we need to repeal most of the rules we currently have regarding housing besides the ones where there's strong evidence its needed for safety reasons.

>>212845830
>This makes building smaller apartments nearly impossible.
It's moreso a reflection that the means of production have been consolidated into the hands of a few and big projects have a better profit margin. Average people do not engage in building anymore.

>>212846165
>we certainly shouldn't be adding more to satisfy anyone's arbitrary aesthetic preferences
So whats the point of being a rich country if many of your developments look like some newly gentrifying rust belt area in Bulgaria lol and the food contains shit that is banned in the rest of the world? What is the point then?

Richer places will always impose more regulations. Even within the USA states the rich places have more regulations of course than the poor ones as states start to develop they eventually impose higher standards. Switzerland has much stricter standards than Hungary and that is completely normal and expected
USA should do something so their apartment complexes do not look like some brand new crackhouse if the goal is to motivate people to move there

>>212846086
look through the buildings built since 2000
they look fine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Salt_Lake_City
>>212846165
>adding more to satisfy anyone's arbitrary aesthetic preferences
seriously
i want to pay less rent i dont give a fuck if it looks medieval or some bullshit like that

>>212846169
There's lots of smaller developers that build single family homes and townhouses. I could see some undertaking a point access block apartment if it was legalized. In fact, it could be an opportunity for some smaller developers to get into multi-family construction.

If an entire block is purchased, they're going to build a big double corridor apartment building since that just makes sense. But for smaller or irregular shaped lots, point access block apartments can really make sense. They also give opportunities to create 3 BR apartments which is architecturally difficult in double corridor apartments. It could also be very good for getting condos built, since no one wants to build or finance a 250 unit condo building, so if a smaller point access block is legalized it could expand condo supply and promote home ownership.

>>212846263
Also this idea that developers have to use cheap timber for construction because it is going to make the apartment more affordable is.. lmao This is literally some third world stuff bro
Have you ever looked at a construction? These 3-4 story buildings are as simple as it gets you have no reason to use such thirdie cost cutting method whats the point of bragging about the GDP then when apartments use cheap timber because "it is cheaper" lol

soylent thread

>>212846263
>So whats the point of being a rich country
To be able to afford more stuff.
> if many of your developments look like some newly gentrifying rust belt area in Bulgaria
If people hate how a new building looks, they can choose not to live there
> the food contains shit that is banned in the rest of the world
Since you've randomly pivoted this discussion to food safety, just because something is banned in one place and legal in another doesn't mean its harmful. Most of the additives that are allegedly harmful are in incredibly small doses, and the studies indicating they may be harmful are rodent studies where they were injected with a much larger dose than humans would ever eat.
If you're actually concerned about additives being unhealthy, I certainly hope you never eat processed meats such as salami, sausage, bacon, drink alcohol, or smoke tobacco, since all of that is proven to be carcinogenic. No one is getting cancer because of Red 40 or Yellow 9 or whatever people are yapping about.
>Richer places will always impose more regulations
USA imposes way too many regulations governing housing. It's an active problem that we have.

>>212846282
Are you genuinely illiterate bro or what is going on? The first building on that list is "luxury"
Literally no one argued that the US does not have cool looking luxury stuff. My point is that the standard starts so fucking low it is absurd. No one argued that there is no expensive good stuff

And sorry but that building looks like shit, looks something from Sim City 2000 and the developed did not have money to paint that commie block resembling pure concrete

>>212844148 (OP)
>>212844244
>>212844275
>>212845156
:(

>>212846328
I like cost cutting for housing. Housing is too expensive, anything we can do to reduce the cost of it without compromising safety is a good thing.

People want rent they can afford, they don't care if an apartment is built with wood or not. If they don't want to live in a wooden apartment, they don't have to, they can live somewhere else.
>>212846378
The thread got derailed by a Hungarian whining about 5 over 1 architecture

>>212846419
looks fine to me
all i care about are tall buildings and lots of units
you want "aescetic" look at the damned hotel

>>212846457
Oh wait are you one of those freaks who think that housing is expensive because they have to install a $50 air filter if your apartment happens to be next to some 15 lane highway? Lmao why did not you start with this?
USA absolutely does not have strict regulations otherwise your apartment complexes for the messes would not look absolute shit tier. What regulations? That there are walls? They are already cost cutting with fucking timber lmao Something no other developed country does

Is it better to live in an ugly building with a view of beautiful buildings, or a beautiful building with a view of ugly postmodern building.

>>212846522
better to live in a fucking building where rents are affordable and your neighbors arent nogs is where it is fucking better to live
muh soul is the stupidest bullcrap ive ever heard
that is some baguette shite that should never come to this here side of em pacific

Why can't the US have those?

>>212846513
>Something no other developed country does
Japan does.
>What regulations?
Zoning, parking minimums, double staircase requirement.

>>212846589

It is no longer a virgin land and has seen many changes. All of these places will look unrecognizable in 200 years time again.
Change is simply a natural part of life

>>212846609
>Japan does.
So a country with 1/3 the GDP per cap? And I seriously doubt it would be common there, Japan fucking loves concrete some places make the Eastern Block look like a joke

>Zoning, parking minimums, double staircase requirement
These exist in every develop country you might as well complain you cannot put down a hut somewhere in a park

>>212846630
>Change is simply a natural part of life
The only time people say this is when they're coping because something is worse now than it was before

>>212846589
-Narrow streets: Illegal because firefighters have a massive sense of self importance
-No setbacks: Often illegal under most zoning codes
-No Parking: Illegal under most zoning codes
-Probably some code violations in the architecture itself
Also, it would be expensive to build anyways, so likely unprofitable.

>>212846666
Things will change regardless of how good they are right now. It might get worse, it might get better. In a long enough span you might see both. But it will still change.
I don't like change, but my opinion will not stop anything from happening.
How many centuries old ant colonies do you think there are in this world?

>>212846668
That pretty sad.
A complete capitalistic world is terrible.

>>212846666
No the people who say that are the people who like things the way they are and want to just discredit any criticism.

>>212846666
civilization has already peaked like 70-100 years ago
only technology is improving now

>>212846513
>USA absolutely does not have strict regulations
This is complete fucking nonsense
>Hungary
You've never been to the United States. What are you talking about?
>What regulations? That there are walls?
Holy shit
>a $50 air filter if your apartment happens to be next to some 15 lane highway? Lmao
That isnt fucking zoning you moron
https://zoningresolution.planning.nyc.gov/sites/default/files/article/Zoning%20Resolution%20Complete.pdf
The link is NYCs complete zoning code, including all updates since 1916
It is a 3000+ page document
Kill yourself

>>212846263
>Richer places will always impose more regulations.
Houston, TX has no municipal zoning, it is the fourth largest urban area in the United States and since 2000 the fastest growing city in the United States
Never talk again

>>212846378
All of this but unironically.

>>212846263
> Even within the USA states the rich places have more regulations of course than the poor ones as states start to develop they eventually impose higher standards
And the blue states that do this are hemorrhaging population to red states. 2030 redistricting is going to be a disaster for the blue states.

>>212847104
It has a high GDP but that isnt really reflected in the average person, like an oil-rich country.

>>212844319
>The buildings most likely fell into disrepair
>Source: Trust Me Bro!
You people are fucking retards
Zoning laws and parking minimums did not exist before WWI
>DuDURRRRR THA BIDLINGS WERENT DEMOLUSHED TO BILD ROASDS AND PARKINGS LOTS DURRRRR
Little brother, are you okay?
Atlanta, Georgia
If you dont know what youre talking about, thats okay but, you know, keep it yourself

>>212845921
Those buildings look like shit. Are you retards just asking for a wraparound balcony? Because that's the only difference here, and a wraparound balcony a) takes away from interior living space, and b) looks like shit.
Just a bunch of USA haters in this thread.

I'm glad the USA is finally building more medium-density housing. Maybe in 10 years most areas won't need a car just to go walk in a park.

>>212846657
>parking minimums
>These exist in every develop country
You cannot tell me the hotel here >>212846589 has a fucking minimum parking requirement lmao. This one rule, alongside most regulations we have that prioritizes cars above all, are the primary reasons our cities continue to suck.

The biggest problem with all of the apartments posted earlier ITT is not their aesthetic, but that they are in locations still primarily zoned for cars. They have huge parking lots/garages and no one living their can reasonably live without owning a car. Deregulating zoning and parking rules would be the best start to fix our problems, but even then it's a very complicated issue because every American city planner and architect alive today was born into this world and doesn't know better

>>212845462
>They look fine, not every building needs to be a work of art.
They look cheaply built and will not age well. In short order they will look dated and decrepit.

>>212847383
I'm not defending the building of urban highways, but blaming the state of cities in the 20th century is simply a flawed and oversimplistic way of looking at history.

Some were demoed for highways, but more were just demoed due to vacancy. That includes much of the ones posted in this thread- not all were replaced by highways, many just became vacant land.

>>212847887
I live in a 15-year-old 5-over-1 building and its fine.
Just depends how their maintained. Buildings don't really need to last forever.
>>212847383
Also, while I am against parking minimums and zoning, it isn't the main cause of the urban cores in some cities having a lot of surface parking. That would be due to disinvestment, and many persist due to land speculation. Parking minimums could make it easier to build on some of the land however.
But I really don't think you have a full view of urban history. It's true that zoning, urban highways, parking minimums are negative forces, but ignoring the impact of white flight and mass auto-centric suburbanization after WW2 gives you a flawed and imperfect picture of history.

>>212844148 (OP)
>>212844244
>>212844275
they're trying to erase tartaria!!!!!!!! o algo..

>>212847784
>They have huge parking lots/garages
You can't be anti-garages if you want to improve cities. That's not a good battle for urbanists to pick.

Garages are a significant improvement to surface parking, and if you want jobs to be located in the city center rather than the suburbs, then parking garages are going to need to be built for commuters.

>>212844148 (OP)
You were Europeans back then, at least superficially. Three piece suits, formal dining, classical music, everyone reading books n' shit. But then you became something more, you became true redblooded 'Murricans in earnest, gosh darnit! Hawaiian shirts, electrified negro music, fast food, superhighways, strip malls, all manner of drugs! Fuck yeah, son!

>>212847104
99% of that development is the same sprawl as in california they just have a fuck ton of empty flat space

>>212847507
stop samefagging you spastic retard i can easily recognize your posts + there isnt a single american other than you that would defend this >>212845333 horrondeous looking shit

yeah those buildings do not look that good (never implied otherwise) and STILL look much better than what you build in many cities

>>212847784
that hotel was built centuries ago
all new apartments build outside the historic district have parking garages everywhere dude. even in the poorest areas

>>212847059
>The link is NYCs complete zoning code, including all updates since 1916
so what do you think any other city in the world does not have that? any other place in the world you can just show up with a shovel and start digging or what? lmao
look up denmark or netherlands they have much stricter regulations than usa where developers build all sorts of atrocious looking shit for the easy $$$

>>212848779
>>212848811
You must be 18 or older to post on 4-chan.

>>212844871
Actually most new construction are marketed as luxury apartments. The ugliness is due to being nothing more then timber framed boxes wrapped in vinyl.

>>212849698
dude it takes 5 sec to look any a country like denmark or holland or something and realize that pretending the usa has stronger regulations is utterly insane when in the mentioned countries everything is neatly organized and visually fitting meanwhile in the usa the developed can take a giant dump anywhere lol