I keep hearing that Japan is a shame society, what does that even mean?

>>212917265 (OP)
It’s good but sometimes bad
There is no abomination like picrel but we don’t behave as a madcappper like American

>>212917300
Keep your schizophrenia in your own thread

>>212917300
Gibberish

It's not a shame society, it's a form society

Everything must be done within forms

>>212917492
And when they say blue ink, they mean blue ink, not black!

It means you have to commit seppuku when you litter on the streets, and your family must exile far away and change their surnames.

>>212917265 (OP)
Assuming you actually want to know:
Saving face and shame are what people are most worried about socially. It leads to less risk taking but an overall higher trust and more stable society. But the individual sacrifices a lot if their individuality. In other words, the society revolves around doing what you're supposed to in order to avoid being an embarrassment and the following social ostracization. So conflict is avoided, as it might make you or someone else look bad. But it also stifles adaptability. What if you suggest an idea and no one else agrees? that's a problem. What if you suggest an idea and it fails? that'll make you look bad. big no no. Just go with the flow, avoid conflict.

Western countries have a similar mechanism but it revolves around individuality, ones own guilt. The difference here is rather than adhering to societies expectations, you listen instead to your own, individual moral compass (usually inherited from your parents). This moral compass is usually similar to those around you, but not necessarily identical. This allows for flexibility and risk-taking. Social consequences are also more lax, so risk taking is less risky overall. We also encourage the Assertion of the self instead of conflict avoidance. Which can lead to more internal conflict, but again, more risk taking. The society is less stable, but more adaptive.

TL:DR
The west:
Who cares what others think?
Japan:
I mostly only care about what others think.

>>212917265 (OP)
Ruth Benedict unilaterally concluded that the western culture is 'sin culture' which has ethical standards inward, while the Japanese culture is 'shame culture' that has the standards (appearances or decency) outward
This became the bible of Japanese studies scholars and Japanophiles, completely establishing the prejudice that the Japanese are soulless insects.

>>212917872
I identify as a Dragonfly

>>212917872
>The west:
>Who cares what others think?
Trends and groupthink still happen in the West. And there's plenty of Non-western countries where people don't care about what others think.

>Westoid: I don't give two fucks what others think
>Job Interviewer: So...what are your strengths
>Westoid: Telling everyone they are wrong and I am wright
>Job Interviewer: Welcome to the firm!

>>212917666
>TL:DR
The west:
Why we won
Japan:
Why they lost

>>212917872
I was more sin-oriented before, but now I am more shame-oriented. bug society killed my conscience and soul.

Sin culture only works with strong morals which is why the west is falling apart, our morals are so lax that people never feel guilt over their actions being wrong anymore

>>212918149
>Trends and groupthink still happen in the West
I did not claim claim they didn't. Hyper socially conscious westerners aren't uncommon.
Similarly, you can get hyper-individualistic Japanese people. They exist. But they society they exist in is still shame-based on the whole.

Being hyper-individualistic doesn't prevent you from cooperating with others to achieve something, does it? Its about how each society is structured and where morality comes from generally.

>>212919626
Don't do to others what you don't want done to you, or heaven will always be watching what you do.
We are told this from an early age by our parents, school teachers, neighborhood adults, and sometimes by older children.
We never make "shame" an important ethical criterion.

>>212917265 (OP)
That's what I would ask if anything.
Typically, it's basically just a cliché used by westerners to criticize the Japanese society.

>>212917265 (OP)
absolutely nothing at all. it's a meme from a garbage research study.

>>212917666
So it's basically just a stereotype for westerners to feel superior. Got it.

Ruth Benedict never even came to Japan in the first place.
She is talking about the same kind of delusional Japan as the Pole and Chilean who live on this board.

>>212920031
Its not something thats taught. What are you even talking about?
Almost every society teaches something similar to "dont do horrible shit to other people".

>>212920125
>So it's basically just a stereotype for westerners to feel superior. Got it.
Ok so you straight up didnt read the post and just want to feel like a victim. Got it.

>>212920082
>Typically, it's basically just a cliché used by westerners to criticize the Japanese society.
No it isn't.

>>212920446
>Ok so you straight up didnt read the post
I did, though. You just went like ''A is B so it's C'' without any data backing it up.
It's nothing but blatant Orientalism.

>>212920518
>I did, though.
So you read that i said "Japanese society is overall higher trust and more stable than western societies."
A blatant admission that western societies are LESS stable and LOWER trust, and what you got from that was "Westerners just want to feel superior."

If you read the post and came away with that opinion, honestly that doesn't make what you said better, it makes it worse.

>>212920641
I didn't mean you hate Japan or you are being intentionally mean to Japan
I was talking about a theory itself
Orientalism is often like that. It's often including some sort of admission but after all it's judging a country or group of people unfairly

>>212920751
And you don't think saying "westerners just want to feel superior", a pretty pointed and broad statement, is judging a group unfairly?

I dont ascribe to Orientalism, never even heard of it. But societal norms and different sources of morality are very real, if they weren't every nation would be identical with the same set of social faux pas. Each System has its own merits and demerits. No one system is across-the-board superior to the others.

I lived in Japan for a year. I dont hate Japan, as a matter of fact i love the place. But the conflict avoidance thing was in particular a huge culture shock for me personally, so i know for a fact that at least is real. I dont know why acknowledging this is taken as an insult.

I even pointed out there are exceptions to the rule here:
>>212919626
I wasn't at all judging the Japanese as a group unfairly.

Nips be like

>O MAI GADDO I PRACE DA BOKKUSU DISU WAY AND NOTTO DATTO WAY

>I MUST KIRR MYSERF NOW!!! BLING DISHONOL TO FAMIRY!!!

>>212921023
>"westerners just want to feel superior", a pretty pointed and broad statement, is judging a group unfairly
I was mocking it, it's not a serious statematent but it's pretty fair as a banter
Because what we are talking about is basically a shitty theory made by westernerners and still widely used by westerners in a shitty way mostly for justifying westerners to judge people unfairly

So your ''no u'' doesn't really work here, sorry

>>212921062
I'm really glad that you posted a very good example

>>212921231
>I was mocking it,
Mocking something perfectly reasonable? Ok.

>it's not a serious statematent but it's pretty fair as a banter
>I-it was just a prank bro
Lol. Lmao even. The "its a prank bro" shit didn't work in 2015 let alone 2025. You didn't want to engage in good-spirited banter you wanted to leave a spiteful ass-blasted remark because anything resembling mild criticism towards your country bruised your fragile ego.

>Because what we are talking about is basically a shitty theory made by westernerners and still widely used by westerners in a shitty way mostly for justifying westerners to judge people unfairly
No it isn't. I've made it clear i wasn't judging anyone unfairly already.

>So your ''no u'' doesn't really work here, sorry
Yes it does, you're still a hypocrite

also
>casually ignores most of what i said
Good move, I would've done so too if i didn't have any intelligent to say in response.

Anyway, i hate to love and leave you but i have to be at work in an hour so im going to go now.

>>212917265 (OP)
Society opposite to this

>>212921478
>something perfectly reasonable
I was saying it's not and you haven't made ANY actual argument since I pointed out you weren't saying anything with data backing your shit up

>''lol'' ''lmao'' ''no, it isn't'' ''yes, it does''
Fucking pathetic.
I expected you would try to defend the theory itself more at least, but you just took it personal and made it a meaningless typical 4chan nonsece because of your shitty ego.
A very typcal gaijin who only has half-assed knowledge but thinks they are some sort of expert of Japan. They easily have a meltdown after sombody calls them out.

>Anyway, i hate to love and leave you but i have to be at work in an hour so im going to go now.
kek thank god

This thread is an almost perfect example showing those theories are basically for retarded westerners

>>212920446
The reason you can't do it even if you are taught is because you can't take it as your own inner problem.