What's your country stance on Universal Basic Income?

I'm opposed to it on philosophical grounds but since I would be a major beneficiary as a NEET with no income of his own I say it's pretty based

>>212993254 (OP)
It’s obviously not gonna work anywhere. People will increase prices accordingly.

If it doesnt bankrupt a country i think its not a bad idea

Give it another decade and the AI garbage can actually take desk jobs. Then what? Trades will become oversaturated and wages drop.
It makes more sense to just keep people at home with UBI.

People working hate so much that neets don't have to slave for 1300 euro month that they voted to eliminate the (already worst in Europe) neetbux we had

>>212993254 (OP)
depends on what gets taxed. taxing land (agriculture and real estate) rent, monopoly rent, overhead, digital rent etc. makes sense otherwise you end up with >>212993343

>>212993303
>>212993401
If everyone has NEETbux, no one has NEETbux. Rent will increase overnight, since they know that you can afford it.

>The food costs will spike if everyone can afford food

it's retarded
people will choose to not work if it was an option when their job prospects are unfulfilling jobs (which are necessary)

>>212993454
Dang I guess companies will have to raise wages to entice people then

>>212993454
Or they can upgrade their education and get a better paying and more fulfiling jobs

>>212993492
minimum wage laws already exist without the need to create handouts for lazy couch potatoes
there are people who will simply not work if that was an option and I don't think society should be paying for that livestyle

>>212993575
Sure thing, and we should stop all EU gibs to Bulgaria by that logic then?

>>212993254 (OP)
They already tried UBI for 6-10 months during covid where a large portion of the working force got paid to sit at home.
It took 6+% deficits, a massive QE program by central banks and the resulting inflation to make it work for even that short period of time

Why should I give you anything for free

>>212993575
it should
most people dont need to work, work should be minimized, only doing the minimum to keep things running

>>212993254 (OP)
Any UBI will just get abused to hell by hordes of brown subhumans.
Just like social welfare and similar programs are now.

>>212993721
Gibs for NEETs in Sweden account for 0.5% of the budget

>>212993695
UBI would require a global tax so companies can no longer dodge taxes and govt could redirect part of their profits from dividends payouts to gibs

You do not want to live in a society where most people don't work. It's hell.

>>212993673
sure, end farming subsidies and cohesion funds, I don't care

>>212993851
I agree with this sentiment, but including all gibs of course and not just the ones you mentioned. You should save up for those yourself.

>>212993879
What else is there? I can't think of anything else.

>>212993950
Tearing down your entire highway network

>>212994147
the roads are built with cohesion funds, which I mentioned

>>212994191
Right, so give back the equivalent amount

In my country we have the opposite of UBI neet paradise. Because i'm a neet, I need to pay the country each month for health insurance (thats okay) and to the "national insurance" (shite wasting money org). If i dont pay they get a bank garnishment order and take money from my account, if there is no money, they come to where I live and start taking stuff so they have enough money to give to leeches and elderly UBI funds.

>>212994225
Yes so we should dismantle them

>>212994225
>>212994388
lol, lmao
no takebacks, fund your welfare leeches on your own

I would only agree to it if we stripped all other welfare programs first, cut income taxes on workers and businesses, and then made going on UBI contingent on giving up your right to vote. Becoming a child of the state (the public) means you shouldn't be polluting the voting discourse.

>>212993254 (OP)
it's going to be essentially mandatory if AGI drops
good luck convincing billionaires to fund it

>>212994432
You are our welfare leeches

>>212993254 (OP)
Reactionary proposition attempting to yet again solve the contradictions at the heart of capitalism, won't work or be ever implemented. Socialism is the answer.

>>212994504
ECB does more to prop up Italy than the EU ever did to any East Euro country desu

>>212994537

This is a form of socialism. It's central economic planning, seizing and redistributing resources.

>>212994552
careful, you're going to trigger a rant about how the Euro is actually keeping Italy down

>>212994432
Typical thirdie behaviour, rules for thee but not for me

Will only work for Aryans

We used to have a congressman here famous for advocating universal basic income all the time. He was a good politician.

>>212994552
You literally got uplifted to sapience, you would be Belarus tier without the west, be humble
ECB keeping the rates low is not even close to enough compensation for the germans concentrating all the industries of the continent

>>212993254 (OP)
where is this money from?

>>212994705
I already said the welfare should stop.
You can't give people money for free, than suddenly decide they owe the money back.
It's not my problem if westoids want to practice retarded economics. More FDI for me.
Actually I take it back, it would be a problem if we're both in the Euro and they're puttin in commie retards as central bank chief, instead of gods like Dragi.

>>212993358
>Then what?
Then you'll starve. You think tech billionaires will willingly pay more in taxes so you can get UBI? No, they will implement the "you vill own nothing and live in the pod" future.

>>212993254 (OP)
eugenics is better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymi3umIo-sM

>>212994977
eugenics would stop every poster on this site from reproducing DOE

>>212994995
That's unironically a good thing doe.

>>212994704
Kek the madman actually did it >>212994819

>>212994995
don't need eugenics for that, lol

>>212995159
Aren't you busy backstabbing Europe again?

>>212993303
Pretty much this. I support it for purely personal and hypocritical reasons

>>212993254 (OP)
I guess they are against it, but I have seen advertisement for a petition at a town hall once
No idea how that turned out...

Can't we just get rid of the 80% population of idiots, genocide dogs, completely rid the world of thirdies, and cities, and globalism and go back to small communities?

>>212993254 (OP)
I don't like it if you aren't making fundamental things absolutely cheap. Things such as clean water and native fruits shouldn't cost much. Other than that, it doesn't matter, other than that, I think that in some way or another, if you didn't failed educating people, they will know better what is best for them.

UBI would only make people rely more on the state and, conaequetially, give more power to it; terrible idea. People who don't wanna sell their souls to a corporation have options other than being parasytes.

>>212995563
>conaequetially
*consequentially

>>212993254 (OP)
It's not a terrible idea in theory, but between conservative boomer greed, liberal college student greed, and addict-with-an-expiry-date greed, we'd fuck it up beyond repair immediately.
Communist/Socialist steps only work if the people do. Unfortunately, in our case, it's better for the country as a political and corporate entity, and most of its citizens to just let the weak links die.

>>212993254 (OP)
Nonsense, depending on your country the equivalent already exists in unemployment benefits which is shit but enough to survive on

>>212995451
ah yes, the small community where if some asshole doesn't like you he spreads rumors against you and you get lynched by a mob

>>212993254 (OP)
It'll work just like how trickle-down economics lived up to its promise.

>>212993254 (OP)
This country would sooner go into a full fledge dictatorship and then initiate a nuclear holocaust than to allow even a sliver of this happen. Jobs or no jobs.

>>212995563
It is kinda the opposite of it, you would cancel all government social shit, and straight up give that money to people. It takes power from the state in the sense of it choosing where it goes in the economy and it ends up being people's choice instead. The problem is that in a dysfunctional society people will spend most of it in gambling and other shit, like a lot of people already do with their welfare gibs.

>>212995635
But you just described social media and the whole woke crazy in the past 10 years where people got fired for making a joke 12 years ago

>>212996145
*craze

>>212995382
Yeah it is Hungary keeping Southern Italy down right after Germany you see

>>212996237
Was thinking about you siding with Europe's enemies at any chance you get (Ottomans, Ruzzia etc)

>>212993254 (OP)
The current president made UBI a core platform of his campaign over a decade ago, but of course he stopped acting on it when he became mainstream
He's still handing out $110 to everyone in the country this week though

>>212993254 (OP)
I support it because I don't want to work anymore. I'm tired of slaving away for breadcrumbs making some German Jew rich.

>>212996329
>Ottomans
Heh?

>>212996417
>Emeric Thököly de Késmárk (Hungarian: késmárki Thököly Imre; Slovak: Imrich Tököli; French: Emeric Tekeli; Turkish: Tököli İmre; 25 September 1657 – 13 September 1705) was a Hungarian nobleman, leader of anti-Habsburg uprisings like his father, Count István Thököly, before him. Emeric was Prince of Upper Hungary, an Ottoman vassal state, from 1682 to 1685, and briefly Prince of Transylvania during the year 1690. Having formed an alliance with the Turks, Thököly assisted the Ottoman Empire at the Battle of Vienna in 1683 and led the Turkish cavalry at the Battle of Zenta in 1697. Refusing to surrender to Habsburg Emperor Leopold I, Thököly lost his principality of Upper Hungary and finally retired to Galata, near Constantinople, with large estates granted him by Mustafa II.
Backstabbing rats

>>212996518
You cannot "backstab" anyone you are not allied with by definition. The Habsburgs were an occupying force too

>>212996567
True, you're simply openly siding with the enemy

The only reason why UBI is in the talk is so that it can drive consumer demand up by giving people money to consume thus stimulate economic growth.

>>212996624

Feels like we are post-libertarian, tea party era and all that. The options now are globalist socialism and nationalist socialism.

>>212993775
this would result in either: Something similar to the American revolution on a global scale, or there would be a race to create proper space stations, or planetary/lunar bases for long term human habitation.
I think the former is far more likely due to practicality and not sounding like something out of a sci-fi novel.

>>212996624
and by consume they mean pay debt and rent for the neo feudal lords

>>212993254 (OP)
regardless of your feelings about it both in terms of practicality/feasibility and philosophy any nation that implements this with the open borders we have now will be inundated until collapse.

>>212996679
Why? If corporations want to sell in your market they should pay taxes on the profits they reap there, not dodge them using financial jujitsu

If you increase the purchasing power of everyone by X%, won’t prices of everything simply adjust? Not even by greed, but by like central bank interest rates if too many people save too much money etc

>>212996667
>>212996681
ideologically economic growth is seen as preferable and even necessary for the system as a whole, at what cost is another story. Beside any political party that's opposed to economic growth is political suicide anyways.

>>212993254 (OP)
Could happen if based on non-tax sources of revenue (like royalties of state oil company) and if its value was less than what is needed in a month, so poor people still have an incentive to work

>>212994879
It seems you quite enjoy the fruits of UBI then

>>212996769
So true, becoming richer as a consumer base is actually bad because the prices increase more making us poorer as a whole.

To become richer we should instead focus on having less spending power, which would make all goods cheaper to buy.

>>212996914
but if you make goods cheaper how would you incentivize firms to produce?

>>212996732
I'm not saying a global tax would be wrong or not work. I just know corporations will try literally anything to keep dodging taxes.

Boogeyman for chuds to screech about when they arent screeching about trannies, zero chance of it ever happening

>>212996852
there are no fruits of UBI, because no UBI has been implemented
Unless you want to argue agro subsidies are UBI.

>>212996773

Socialism is about the division of resources, not its production, it's inherently anti-growth with the tradeoff of greater guarantees (hypothetically)

>>212996914
Well you don’t become richer, if the amount of money increases in an economy, and prices stay the same, the velocity of money slows down (a smaller percentage of the total is being used) because people save, this will cause central banks to increase rates since they want to avoid economic slowdown (deflation) at all costs, and then prices level out so that a loaf of bread costs the same % of income at X as it did at Y, long term

Economics isn’t as simple as ”more money = richer” on a societal scale, it’s about relative value, velocity, where the money is being spent or not

>>212997424
They're both gibs. Someone could work less because some other party injected money into them. And this is something you enjoy and is thankful for.

>>212997614
not all gibs function the same, the entire point of UBI and its supposed selling point is that it's a more efficient form of welfare spending
free education and healthcare are also a kind of redistribution
for someone shilling for UBI you don't know a lot about it

UBI only works on planned economies (aka socialism)

Pensions aren't even fully funded and you think UBI is realistic.

>>212997597
>this will cause central banks to increase rates
Increasing the central bank target rate is at the same time hawkish and means all the other rates go upwards (overnight, MMF rates, CDs, treasury bills/notes). That would incentivize people to save even more.
In a scenario like yours where narrow money increses but people save it, the central bank would probably enforce a reserve requirement of 10%-20% to stifle the money multiplier.