Thread 216494689

A centrally planned and democratically coordinated economy is the only thing that can successfully address the human needs of the 21st century. The economic anarchy of capitalism and the division of the world into rival, competing nation states is the root of all of our problems in the contemporary world. In other words, we need a conscious movement of the worlds working class, based on a socialist program.

>unironically shilling for planned economies in 1991 + 34
LOL

>>216494715
Hes right thoughever

>>216494689 (OP)
>>216494722
living in the richest country to have ever existed and wanting the opposite economic system that made it possible is absurdly retarded

>>216494749
Richest how exactly? What does that do for me? We have lots of money in the hands of a handful of capitalists and thats pretty much it.

>>216494689 (OP)
This but unironically

>>216494770
The modern American consumer is the most coddled large group in world history

>>216494771
zizters...

>>216494715
I don't know if you noticed this but the biggest American companies operate on Soviet style five year plans now for a reason. It's also worked out great in China.

>>216494689 (OP)
TRUTH
NUKE

>>216495197
>Soviet style five year plans
And if it were a 4 year plan it wouldn't be Soviet, because that's were the similarities stop

>>216494749
>"richest country ever"
>i will literally get murdered if i ride the bus by feral poors who have no opportunity to better themselves and no reason to even try
>i am slowly priced out of affordable food in the area that i was born in
>i can barely afford to do anything besides making rent
you're either a mutt or the boss of mutts (a jew) that needs mutt capital to survive
this ship is sinking. the writing is on the wall.

A retarded commie in 2025 kek

>>216494689 (OP)
>centrally planned
Oof, you were so close. We're not gonna get it right next time if it's just more state capitalism.

>>216494749
The biggest fallacy of capitalism is that the illusion of upwardly-mobile prosperity is sustainable indefinitely. A middle class will rise for a time, but will inevitably disintegrate under the weight of the same market forces that created it. It's the ultimate faustian bargan.

ChatGPT, please explain in simple terms Ludwig Mises & Friedrich Hayek's Economic Calculation Problem.

>Imagine you run a bakery in a market economy:
>The price of flour goes up you know to raise bread prices or use flour carefully.
>Customers buy less bread you know to bake less.
>In a planned economy, the government decides:
>How much flour every bakery gets,
>How much bread to bake,
>What price to sell it for.
>Without real price signals, they might give you too much flour and not enough sugar, or set prices too low so the bread runs out. The result? Shortages and waste.

>>216494715
It works in china howeverbeit

>>216494749
Despite being the richest country, there are awful places in the USA you can't find in Sweden. Raw wealth isn't everything.

>>216496132
LOL

>>216496139
America's wealth is concentrated in a few jewish billionaires hands while everyday americans are a missed paycheck from living like that

>>216494749
We are merely beneficiaries of an unsustainable parasitic system which is gradually rendering the planet less and less habitable.

That we benefit from the capitalist-imperialist system and its continued existence is no reason not to oppose it. Capitalism is going to fall anyway, but will it result in the collapse of human civilization and our eventual extinction or will it be overthrown through socialist revolution before it's too late?
I don't like the fact that my relatively high living standards and abundance are due to the plundering and exploitation of the vast majority of humanity, and that the rich country are well-off due to siphoning off the surplus value generated by poor countries.

Even if I myself wouldn't benefit from socialism, I'd still want my children or my children's children and so forth to have a world that works for them and for human civilization to continue to exist and advance.
Socialism shows that development and prosperity is possible without exploitation, predation, parasitism, whatever you want to call it. It's possible to have a world order in which there aren't "winners" and "losers", "oppressors" and "oppressed", something that works to the benefit of everyone.

Karl Marx had once said "In capitalist society, spare time is acquired for one class by converting the whole life-time of the masses into labour time." The rich are rich and the poor are poor due to exploitation. The global capitalist-imperialist system elevates the living standards of around ten to fifteen percent (my estimation) of the global population at the expense of everyone else, who have to toil and starve and live in extreme poverty in order to fund our relatively comfortable and well-off lives.

I think that socialist economies would be better off if they had a more bottom-up model of planning rather than a top-down one. And one that incorporates modern computational technology into the planning system.
The Soviet planned economy was premature and there wasn't sufficient infrastructure for a fully-planned economy to work well, and it was too top-heavy in nature.

Build a huge ass mainframe and have it calculate all the resources, inputs and outputs. Scientists be so smart and shit but can't do that, bunch of phoney niggers. Now people have to work for a bunch of pedo billionaires, dictator cocksuckers or some fags no one elected while the science niggas sit there looking at their fucking bacteria through a microscope.

>>216494689 (OP)
We need more socialist policies here in the states, but no country should ever be subjected to Communism. Private capital and private ventures should be encouraged, and enabled for the good of development of all kind.

>>216494689 (OP)
tankies can fuck off
engels can kys
anarchy is the only real path forward
>b-b-b-but muh state
there's the wall, brocialist

>>216496139
what americans don't share is that america's wealth isn't america's. it's a culmination of assets held onto jealously by a collection of conglomerates who have no loyalty to any country. i don't know why mutts flex GDP when it's not theirs. it's capital that's in circulation within their borders.
GDP isn't prosperity, safety, or human development
elon, intel, google, they will flee when the war in the war in the pacific is lost.

>>216496427
I don't get why we can't have the economy subject to democracy like we supposedly do with the government. Have committees of workers decide how resources get allocated, what projects get funded, how material wealth is distributed, etc.
Private capital has become almost entirely parasitic at this point and capitalism has nearly exhausted its inventive and innovative potential, becoming this self-cannibalizing entity that consumes itself in an attempt to realize more profits. This is why you're seeing mass-scale enshittification, private equity buying up companies then running them into the ground and bankrupting them, then gobbling up another company to ruin; companies sitting on IP and producing garbage slop that ruins the soul the IP originally had.
All these shareholders who want to invest only in things that will net short-term gains on their investments, with no consideration for what's good for the long term. Capitalism has become especially shortsighted and unable to plan for the future and that's why we are currently destroying the environment because it's not profitable to deal with climate change for the next quarter even though it will be extremely unprofitable in the long-term and already has caused billions of dollars in damages. Companies are making their products and services worse because they know their customers have no alternative because of how they've monopolized, capitalism has lost its ability to be competitive due to the centralization of capital.
All of these factors (and many more) are why I think we need to switch to a planned economy and abandon the profit motive as the guiding force for production.

>>216496385
>The rich are rich and the poor are poor due to exploitation.
That's were Marx and communists in general miss the mark. They see humans as an indistinct mass, only separated by class. You could see this in the Soviet school system were everyone had to learn the same way, however smart or dumb, or how people with disabilities were swept under a rug, erased. The truth is, in the modern capitalist society, people are rich due to industriousness. The poor are often that due to being lacking mentally in one way or the other.

>>216496487
GDP is not capital. GDP is the value of all goods and services produced within a country during a year. It measures actual production in the real economy. Its biggest component for the US is consumption (~70%); that is, our high productivity is also actually consumed by our people.

>>216496446
The most anarchism can do is break a Starbucks window and knock over trashcans. Any anarchist society which doesn't end up just being a state with another name would be taken over by hostile forces due to the power vacuum from having dissolved the state.
The Marxist theory of the state holds that it will become redundant when capitalism has been defeated since the state's purpose is to ensure the domination of one class over another and manage the class struggle.
In the case of the proletarian state, if the bourgeoisie ceases to exist both internally and externally; and capitalism has been overthrown globally, then the state as such will no longer be necessary and only the administrative functions of government will remain as a result.
Police, military, prisons, etc. will become superfluous. Crime will be dealt with through preventative means and understanding of the material conditions which give rise to crime. Punitive justice won't need to exist, at least not on a large institutionalized scale.
The reason that Marxist states haven't "withered away" was because they still had internal and external enemies which require the continued existence of the state.

>>216496508
Because there's a high propensity for such a system to become entrenched. It doesn't allow for the maverick of sorts to come in and on their own fund a project or business that reshapes things. Something we've seen many times in the US.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against some sort of democratically controlled business of sorts. I work for a municipal non-profit that is oversaw by a board appointed by the local mayor. I think it runs pretty damn good for the community, and balances the profit motive out of the equation outside of simply being able to pay employees and fund other projects.
But ultimately I think if he try to get rid of the free movement of capital, or restrict it with some sort of board of sorts you're also going to limit innovation, and progress.

mucho texto

>>216496508
>>216496598
I will also add that I think there needs to be more done to prevent said monopolies as well. More trust-busting, or heavy legislative oversight probably bordering on how my workplace runs on companies that get a 'pass' due to needing to remain big to do what they do.

>>216496562
People are rich primarily due to luck, they've won the birth lottery or they were in the right place at the right time. Meritocracy is a lie.
Although individual merit does have some effect on your life, it is largely dependent on the luck you already have. No matter how hard or how long a Bangladeshi factory worker toils making the clothes you wear, they will never become a millionaire or a billionaire.
This rule holds true throughout most of history, your wealth or power are primarily determined when you were born. Most "rags to riches" stories are actually "wealthy to extremely wealthy" stories.
The rich are rich because of this global system of exploitation which siphons surplus value from the vast majority of humanity which then flows to the pockets of the bourgeoisie. The rich are rich because they're impoverishing billions and keeping them just paid enough to barely stay alive and continue to toil.
All the billionaires and millionaires, including the "good ones" are vile putrid disgusting evil parasites who deserve to have everything taken away from them by force—all of their wealth, assets, capital, property, etc.—and then made to toil in labor-camps for years in order to pay reparations and have a taste of their own medicine, the conditions that they've subject the vast majority of humanity to.

>>216494749
This

>>216496671
Ehh Jensen Huang was not wealthy

>>216496671
>People are rich primarily due to luck
Come on anon. Luck has a lot to do with it especially if you're a billionaire. If you're one of the top ultra-wealthy you have had a lot of luck for sure. But a simple millionaire? A local business owner who's made his well lot in life? There's a good chance they got there from hard and smart work. Luck may be a factor, but it depends on each individual's circumstances.

>>216496598
Ideas of how to improve society and make better products and services can still be communicated, it's just that this ability would no longer be exclusive to those who have sufficient capital in order to realize their ambitions.
Workers would have a say on how their workplace is ran, and local communities would hold forums and meetings in which suggestions can be made and people can be active participants in the shaping of society as a whole.
And they would have more free time to be able to make these decisions because they're no longer being worked to death in order to squeeze out as much profit out of them as possible.
I'm not one of those communists who believe that work will entirely vanish under communism, but it would improve qualitatively and a general effort would be made to lower the number of hours and days worked per week and raise productivity without making individual workers over-exert themselves and burn out.
Part of the process of economic planning would involve having these discussions on what to produce, in what quantity to produce it, and how to distribute and allocate what's being produced. And I imagine that new ideas would be brought up in meetings and voted on.

>>216496671
>People are rich primarily due to luck, they've won the birth lottery
Birth lottery in the sense of genetics and a positive upbringing.
You cannot get rich only with luck, you have to have the relevant know-how and skills. Luck plays a role, but it's not the most vital thing. Most wealth is made, not inherited.
>No matter how hard or how long a Bangladeshi factory worker toils making the clothes you wear
The proposition isn't that anyone can get rich doing anything. Working in a factory will get no one rich, entrepreneurship will. The communist system takes away the ability for individuals to do business, which is fundamentally important in creating wealth. It is necessary to tie a person's greed/personal interest with an enterprise to make him truly interested in it being efficient and cost-effective. Under a communist economy, inefficiency grows as the thing that's truly important is pleasing your boss, be it even with fake metrics and Potemkin villages. Personal ambition gets squished and that's the big issue.

>>216496774
>metrics
data

>>216496446
*Individualist anarchism

>>216496712
I'm not saying nobody's ever gotten rich due to their own hard work, but rather that the overall rule is "birth lottery" and that people who have gotten rich through their own hard work still had more luck than most.
Hard work, in my view, is only a factor which acts upon the luck you already have. The poorest of humanity will never be able to implement any creative ideas they have due to having to work extremely hard just to barely make enough to continue surviving.

Even I, as a white American who makes around $33,000 per year, which is considered low here still have more opportunities and live a much more comfortable life than most people. My life compared to that of billions of others is extremely luxurious in comparison. It sounds arrogant, but it's true. Even our "rags" aren't truly rags, and are "riches" compared to the living standards of most. And many of these stories in which people "got rich" start out with them in upper-middle class families with rich parents and getting thousands of dollars in startup capital from their dad or something like that.


Stephen Jay Gould had said “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”

>>216494689 (OP)
>USSR
>Democratic
what? you literally couldn't run for office without approval from the communist party.
Also you literally can't have democracy and multiple ethnic groups. parties literally just turn into ethnic groups

>>216496774
How does the Bangladeshi factory worker become an entrepreneur? How does a Cambodian subsistence farmer? Or a Congolese child miner mining the coltan we use in our electronics?
What I'm saying here, is that without already having inherited wealth and capital, your ideas mean nothing and you can't enact them. There is a barrier of entry which filters out people who don't have enough money or capital already accumulated, and it raises every year; filtering more and more people out.
The majority of people are already deprived of a voice in this system. Who knows how many inventions were never invented, how many innovations, how many improvements were never implemented due to those who had thought of them never being able to realize them because of a lack of wealth?
That and capitalism has nearly completely exhausted its progressive potential, its capacity for invention and innovation. Most "ideas" floated around are how to make things worse for workers and consumers in order to make more profits, deliberately making their products and services worse or more expensive.

>>216496865
>How does a Cambodian subsistence farmer?
Probably by expanding his farm and then selling some of the produce

>>216496812
The U.S.S.R. had a system of democracy which we don't often hear about in the West because it's inconvenient to talk about.
The "totalitarian dictatorship" narrative is a fabrication. While there were abuses of power in the Soviet Union and corruption did exist, and there were power struggles, there was a system of democracy which allowed the working class to have a say in both the government and economy to a certain extent.

>>216496920
I am, however, critical of the "vanguard party" model of the Marxist-Leninist states as it seems particularly prone to authoritarianism. Mao had identified the phenomenon of the Communist Party in various countries being the basis for the generation of a "New Bourgeoisie" which becomes disconnected from the working class and becomes an oligarchic ruling class who restore capitalism under the banner of socialism. Communism should be more bottom-up in nature rather than top-down.

>>216496865
Bangladesh would be improved if it had better venture capital markets I agree

>>216496920
you could literally only vote for people the communist party nominated. they didn't have democracy

>>216496865
>How does the Bangladeshi factory worker become an entrepreneur? How does a Cambodian subsistence farmer? Or a Congolese child miner mining the coltan we use in our electronics?
I don't know if they can. The thing is that, while the current system is unfair to the third world, breaking it will bring a very significant fall in living standards in the first world. To the third worlders, all of us might as well be bourgeoisie. It's necessary to acknowledge this because otherwise, it will seem like the communist idea will be beneficial even here, when that is absolutely not the case. It's doubtful it will even help the third world, since even if the US was to flip communist, there would be still plenty enough capitalist countries to exploit Africa and Asia.

Here, in the Western world, a lack of capital cannot be blamed for poverty most of the time, or especially the lack of wealth. You don't need to be a millionaire to start, you don't even need 100 000 or anywhere close to that amount.

>>216496920
The "democratic process" of the USSR was a farce and nothing more than theater. Governance was top-down, even on the municipal level. The state selected the candidates, sometimes there weren't more than one in a district. The most people could affect was vote no on a candidate in big enough numbers to get the state to reconsider him.

>>216497012
Communists believe that in between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism (stateless, classless society) there is a transitory phase in the middle called the "dictatorship of the proletariat".

In Marxism all class societies are referred to as "dictatorships" of one class. Capitalist societies are called a "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie". The difference, and this is why Marxist countries tend to be one-party states, is that bourgeois societies have to obscure their true nature by pretending that the state under capitalism is democratic and represents the interests of all of the citizens, "the will of the majority" and all that.
Marxists consider bourgeois democracy to be a farce, and only democratic in name; and that even though there are multiple political parties with differing views, almost all of them are compatible with capitalism and represent different factions of the bourgeoisie and the petty bourgeoisie, and even labor, socialist, and communist parties have been co-opted to a certain degree by capitalism and have lost their working class nature and revolutionary potential.
Under the dictatorship of the proletariat, however, Marxists see no need to obscure the true nature of the state. Only the proletariat and its allies (the peasantry and some other minor class-strata) are allowed political representation, and Marxism is seen as the objective truth.
All societies have strict parameters, an "Overton Window" of acceptable ideological variation. Ideological discourse is allowed within these parameters, but not outside.
The Communist Party must not be thought of as a political party in the same sense as those in multi-party systems, like the Democrats or Republicans, Libertarians or Greens. Essentially, the Communist Party is the government and having one party is largely the same as having no parties.
Individual candidates are voted on due to their policies and their character, not because of a letter next to their name.

>>216497160
Yea but that's all fucking horseshit. Democracy is when people can reject policies by voting. That is possible in America but not modern China, and it was likewise not possible in the USSR

>>216497160
not reading all that shit.
the goal of communism is to enslave people and turn them into chattel for a jewish monarchy. literally every communist state ever has established a monarchy and enslaved the people. all left wing ideologies are pro monarchy and pro slavery

>>216497096
My ideology compels me to defend the political system of the USSR, though I'll admit I don't know enough and need to read up more, and not only read pro-communist material. Some Communists reject anything negative said about the USSR, PRC, etc. as bourgeois propaganda and dismiss it.

However, I realize that they weren't perfect. And believing these societies were perfect utopias will only result in Communists repeating mistakes made in the past. Much of what is said about socialism is fabricated or exaggerated, but some of it is true and must be examined without regarding it as proof that Communism as a whole must be rejected and is inherently bad.
I'm closer in thought to Maoism, which Mao Zedong did especially later on in his life criticize the political system of the U.S.S.R. as being too top-down and not involving the masses enough.
Mao dedicated the last two decades of his life trying to figure out how to keep the Communist Party in line with the masses and actually have a more direct model of democracy, and how to prevent capitalist restoration.

Ultimately his efforts were defeated with the imprisonment of the "Gang of Four" and the defeat of the Cultural Revolution, but it is a problem which merits more investigation rather than outright dismissal. Some Communists realizing that the capitalist institutions lie about socialism and fabricate atrocity propaganda, false quotes, fake death tolls, etc. make the completely opposite error of assuming that everything which is ideologically inconvenient is a lie.
But the truth is somewhere in the middle.

If you're interested in reading about Mao's criticisms and overall evaluation of Joseph Stalin and the USSR's model, here's a useful resource:
https://massline.org/SingleSpark/Stalin/StalinMaoEval.htm

>>216497259
Democracy exists to some extent in modern China but it's mostly on a local scale where people directly vote for their town, city, or a county's representatives.

>>216497381
I'm quite sure I'd rather live under the system where people make entire careers out of publicly criticizing the ruling party

>>216497305
The goal of communists is to put an end to class society, and eliminate all forms of oppression and exploitation. Slavery is a form of class society. Prison-labor was not a form of slavery due to the prisoners not having been legally considered property, and the Soviet Union didn't rely on prison-labor to a significant degree. Most prisoners in the Gulag system temporarily served their sentence for a few years and then were released.
Many communists today are against forced labor and the idea of "reform through labor" though, and believe in rehabilitative and preventative justice instead. As much as I dislike the ruling class and believe they should pay for their crimes to some degree, emotions shouldn't be at the helm and communists shouldn't try to be motivated by revenge and punishment.
So ideally, labor-camps and death-camps, torture and execution should be out of the question entirely. The bourgeoisie should be re-integrated into society as laborers following their expropriation and ousting from power.
Also communism and other left-wing ideologies have always been against monarchism and have overthrown several monarchies. You don't know what you're talking about.

>>216494689 (OP)
The primary human need of the 21st century is the extermination of all forms and derivatives of communism, including national socialism and most existing forms of government.
Only when the last subhuman bleating about their rights to things owned by other people has been exterminated will peace and prosperity become possible long-term.
So, never.

Why are commies so fucking gay and annoying? Dispute this:
>>216496107
>Inb4 muh computers
It's an epistemological problem, not a mathematical one. The fundamental catalyst of the famines incurred by the Great Leap Forward were because of this crisis predicted by Austrian economists.

>>216494689 (OP)
>A centrally planned and democratically coordinated economy is the only thing that can successfully address the human needs
A centrally planned economy has never succeeded in addressing the needs of humans. It always fails and becomes a wasteful and corrupt oligarchic system where the elites share all the resources among themselves and the normal people are left with a bare minimum of extremely poor quality goods.

The opposite is what works. Economy must grow up from the roots, not dictated from the top. You can put limits on its growth from the top but you can't dictate it.

>>216497496
I on the other hand would be completely fine turning YOU into fertilizer just based on the 20th century.

>>216497462
>people make entire careers out of publicly criticizing the ruling party
NTA and I don't like china, but I don't see what's so good about that
There'd nothing good about a bunch of money grubbing media personalities making money off creating fake drama
I wouldn't give that as the premier example of the virtues of liberal-democracy

>>216497333
>My ideology compels me to defend the political system of the USSR,
you have shit ideals and you are pro slavery
>>216497496
the goal of communism is to establish a jewish monarchy and to enslave the people. see every communist state ever

>>216497462
The CPC did temporarily allow any and all criticism during the "Hundred Flowers Campaign" but there was a subsequent crack-down on right-wingers who used this campaign to call for the overthrow of the Communist Party and criticize communism entirely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

I believe that Communism should be more tolerant of criticism and input from below; and disagree with the framing of the Hundred Flowers Campaign as a deliberate honeypot to entrap rightists (Criticism and self-criticism are important in Maoist thought) and believe that Mao was genuine in his intentions, but at the same time all societies have a range of political and ideological discourse deemed "acceptable" and obviously, calling for the overthrow of a system or government falls outside that range.

westoid commie trannies are so cringe

>>216497605
Dispute this instead of babblign about your gibsmedat pipe-dream:
>>216497535
Communism is teleologically disposed to eviscerating the sparrows, lying about the grain harvest, and draining the Aral Sea. There is no way out of this.

>>216497547
If you're not against the concept of an economy based entirely on planning and socialism in its entirety, you might be interested in Paul Cockshott's (yes that's his name) "Towards a New Socialism" which advocates a more bottom-up form of planning which incorporates modern technology and more direct democracy.

>>216497605
That's not obvious at all. People call for the overthrow of the American system and its government every day, and they are not tortured and killed for it; in fact the system allows many to thrive doing just that! This is very good, and historically rare.

People killed by the USSR, most of them White Christians or longtime Russian imperial subjects:

Red Terror: 100,000
Decossackization: 10,000
Famine of 21-22: 4,000,000
Westward and Caucasus offensives: 80,000
August Uprising: 10,000
Antonovshchina: 250,000
Collectivization: 3,000,000
Famine of 32-33: 7,000,000
Yezhovshchina and Gulag: 2,000,000
Deporation of Ingrian Finns: 4,000
Deportation of Koreans: 40,000
Operation Lentil: 150,000
Occupation of the Baltics: 30,000
Occupation of Poland: 41,000
NKVD prisoner massacres: 100,000
Operation Ulusy: 16,000
Deportation of the Tatars: 45,000
Deportation of the Meskhetian Turks: 13,000
Deportation from Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina: 35,000
Famine of 46-47: 1,500,000

The USSR, despite having massive reserves of natural resources and some of the best agricultural land in the world, utterly failed to compete with the US and Western Europe economically and technologically, becoming a stagnated and empoverished country in the 1970s, when its life expectancy actually decreased. It never ceased being an importer of commodities, such as wheat. The USSR also allowed the abortion of 60 million infants after Stalin's death. An anti-Russian regime from beginning to end.

>>216494689 (OP)
objectively correct and if you ask your average serb 90% would agree that the last time we were a proper country was when we had a planned economy.
Even under sanctions my city had 45k employed public and mostly industrial workers and 2k workers in private sector.
Today its under 5k in the public and 20k in private with the rest unemployed or on private farms never to return to proper employment.

Problem is that the only political faction advocating for this are lefties and they lost all credibility here.

>>216497681
If we're bringing in abortion and forced sterilization then Deng is the absolute GOAT

>>216497496
Why the fuck do you americans think communism is something good?

If you want to talk about stop being slaves to some rich guy, and make him pay taxes like everyone else.

And invest more into society, then open a fucking book and learn that socialism /=/ communism. The commie niggers took every good ideas from socialism to remain relevant. You have some good french socialists with some good ideas. Maybe… learn about them.

Yeah, but le Karl Marx. Yeah, he took some ideas from socialism. I don’t say that everything he said was dumb. But learn how to fucking speak and teach how people should be more open minded to socialism. And learn to make the fucking difference.

If I was some billionare, I won’t have to waste brain muscles to keep my money. You idiots, like everyone around the world, is divided. Yeah, keep voting retard politicians and make sure you have fucking faggots like those 2 streams (Hasan and asmongold), teach you how world should work

Not gonna defend socialism because it's inherently flawed in many aspects but still it's also truth that socialism has such a bad name because it was implemented on a grand scale by incompetent Soviets. If it had been run by Scandis or East Asians, it would be much more efficient (still not perfect, but nothing is) and probably more popular across the world.

>>216494689 (OP)
>democratically coordinated
Yeah, 10 muscovites in CK KPSS deciding what Ivan Ivanov in Shitovsk, Fuckinsk oblast, should have for breakfast is bery demogratig, ebig dung on cabitalisd xd

>>216497926
>Why the fuck do you americans think communism is something good?

Because they had experience with capitalism only and they think they have it bad so they're looking for different options, you can't blame them.

It's hard to learn from other people's mistakes, especially that eastern European experience can be easily dismissed by saying "it's was because of the Slavs, it's gonna be different in our country with a more developed civilization and work ethics".

>>216497984
>Because they had experience with capitalism only and they think they have it bad so they're looking for different options, you can't blame them.


I would rather blame their own educational system. Yeah, our average american is mad because of the current system made him a slave. Also sucks for them, like I said, about what faggot is teaching about political ideologies.

They have a turk rich boy who does a LARP as Gracchi brothers. And some NEET guy streaming from his house.

Funny, I wonder if the americans heard about Jacobinism.

>>216497926
Americans don't think communism is good, most of us are against it. There are probably fewer than a few hundred thousand Americans who actually identify as communists, most of whom aren't organized or politically active.

Most of the self-proclaimed communists in this country are also of the "not real communism" variety and unquestioningly believe all the bourgeois slander and propaganda painting Marxist governments as evil, tyrannical, genocidal, etc.

Of the communists who are Marxist-Leninists or Maoists and defend historical implementations of socialism, there are even fewer.

I believe communism is something good because I've realized that most of what I've been told about communism is false, and that the capitalist class portray communism as evil in order to dissuade people from believing that there's a viable alternative to capitalism. After I learned that what I've learned about communism was largely fake (like the infamous bullshit "100 million" figure attributed to communism in the "Black Book of Communism", with many of the figures being deliberately mis-attributed, distorted, or even pulled out of the ass of the author), I informed myself about what really happened and what life was actually like for most people in these countries and how communism lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and liberated hundreds of millions from capitalist and feudal oppression. The "communism has failed every time it's been tried narrative" just isn't true.

Many people who have lived in the PRC under Mao, the USSR, Albania under Hoxha, etc. are still communists and remember their lives under communism fondly.
Of course, we don't give these people any significant attention. No, all of the attention goes to the class enemies of the proletariat and their descendants. No, your granddaddy wasn't a "poor farmer" who had "everything taken away from him by the state", he was a wealthy kulak who exploited poor peasants and withheld grain during famine.

>>216498241
Dude, we talk about something that happend during Cold War. Of course the CIA and the government had to do something to defend against another political doctrine. We both would so the same thing, if we were in their shoes.

You know what’s funny, here.. people call the reign of Ceaușescu (communism) “the Golden Age” (only dumb boomers do) because muh jobs for everyone, factories everywhere. And of course muh fucking DEBT that I made to create the utopia of every workers. And I will have to pay it up, by starving the country and doing some parades that I saw in North Korea.

I don’t say communism did everything wrong. But we had some good things thanks to a fucking well educated member of the commie party ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Gheorghe_Maurer ), more info is on the romanian page.


If you want to see how things went with Romania during communism, check out this documentary made by our television ( https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxO8-C91Lp91gxNxVmzVA3hUOpb9-9b1e&si=xyalhQJoCCU03Ig5 ) Yeah, sorry! Everything is in romanian. I don’t think I can help you with some subtitles. There are more episodes. That playlist doesn’t have all of them there.

Here’s a fun fact, Ceaușescu and his friends decided to let the country watch your famous TV series Dallas. In order to see how bad americans lives are. It didn’t work out to well.

Of course every Eastern European will be mad when someone from the west, who didn’t saw the horrors that every fucking police state in each country from the Warsaw pact did, acts like communism was something great for them.

To understand communism, visit the Aral Sea.

>>216498572
Yeah IDK anything about Romania at all right now so I can't comment. But I don't think the faults with the Soviet Marxist-Leninist style of communism in particular can be attributed to communism in and of itself and thereby justify abandoning communism entirely. Which is something I don't want to do, because if there's no viable alternative to the capitalist-imperialist system then humanity is fucked.
I don't think the "not real communism" line is helpful either, because then it's just an excuse for communists to not learn from their history and learn from their mistakes, which is an essential task for any communists who take power in the future wherever that may be next.
Communists still haven't solved the problem of how to ensure the Communist Party actually stays connected to the people, and doesn't just become a "New Bourgeoisie" and how to prevent capitalist restoration. Though Mao tried to answer this question with the mass-line, cultural revolution, anti-revisionism campaigns, etc.
Dismissing any objections like that is also insensitive to any innocents who had suffered, which I don't deny that there were preventable excess deaths under communism or people wrongfully targeted or accused by the state.
Saying that they only targeted the bourgeoisie, nobility, kulaks, fascists, etc. or that no innocent people died as a result of state policy is incorrect.

>>216494689 (OP)
Communism is good actually.

>>216498898
Only Posadist communism is good, the rest are trash. Aliens will bring our salvation after we all nuke each other.

>>216498874
Communism was just a facade for people to get power. Take a look at the Sino-Soviet split. Kinda funny how communism stayed relevant thanks to some “bourgeoisie”, like my ex PM, Maurer.

>I don’t know anything about Romania

Well, I think the subject about communism should end. To every person who wishes to break the chains of modern day slavery. Do your homework. Don’t do propaganda to some ideology, who stole from the french intellectuals, just because you went with the rest of the people (herd). If you continue like that, then enjoy being a slave for the rest of your life to some billionare.

As for you, I can give you the perfect political ideology that could turn the whole planet into a new utopia. And it will fail. Of course, you can try to defend and protect it, but you will have to do something with people that lust for power, etc. You, like everyone here is stuck in an endless battle of human greed and stupidity.

>>216498622
Commies aren't the only ones draining lakes

>>216499437
The diversion of rivers in order to feed water-intensive agriculture is a problem in a lot of the world. Like the Colorado River over in the US, and the wasteful flood irrigation method of watering and how we're growing a lot of water intensive crops like alfalfa and almonds, and wasting water on keeping grass lawns alive in arid desert states.