Why is Russia wasting hundreds of drones and dozens of missiles every week on striking random apartment building and other civilian structures instead of saving them for the front lines or on strategic assets like power plants and factories? It's not like they have infinite amount of missiles. They must also know that this terror attacks have no chance of making Ukraine give up. So why?

>>63808395 (OP)
Great press at home.

>>63808395 (OP)
The Kremlin's idea is that by terrorizing the Ukrainian citizens they'll get fed up with Zelensky and elect someone (a puppet most likely) that ends the war quickly in favor of the Kremlin.

>>63808395 (OP)
Firstly, because they believe that tkeeping up the pressure will inevitably break Ukrainian morale to fight, which is a product of their own whipped cattle mentality


Secondly, because it takes them months to regenerate stocks and military installations are either too heavily protected or dispersed so they hit the biggest and easiest targets, like cities

>>63808395 (OP)
Western nations know from first hand experience that terror bombing doesn't work (The Blitz, Operation Linebacker, etc) and is a waste of time and resources.

The Russians don't.

After three years, reinforcement and evacuation of important infrastructure will have been completed.
Kinzhal may be effective, but Shahed will have little effect on reinforced structures.

>>63808421
>>63808425
There's no way even the most hard die vatnik would think that a few dozen missiles a week that destroys a handful of buildings would actually destroy Ukraine morale when it's still going strong after 3 years of war. Maybe if they were sending thousands of missiles a day and pounding entire cities to dust. There must be another reason.

>>63808421
>The Kremlin's idea is that by terrorizing the Ukrainian citizens they'll get fed up with Zelensky and elect someone (a puppet most likely) that ends the war quickly in favor of the Kremlin.

I know I'm probably preaching to the converted here, but we literally tried this strategy in WWII with much greater effect and our own studies (namely the United States Strategic Bombing Survey) concluded that it didn't work.

The only time it arguably worked was during the Battle of the Netherlands in 1940 and even then, the Dutch decision to capitulate probably had more to do with France and Britain experiencing catastrophic battlefield reversals further South than the Bombing of Rotterdam.

>>63808421
>Invade Ukraine
>Terrorize population so they get fed up with Zelensky and vote in someone else
>Ukrainian elections are suspended because they're being invaded
>???
>Profit?

>>63808395 (OP)
>>63808421
A citizen killed today is a future conscript denied to the enemy and one less set of hands to participate in their economy.

>>63808468
They are wasting dozens of drones and missiles to kill like 10ish people, every week. That's like a dozen missiles/drones per person killed.

>>63808395 (OP)
It turns out they're really not good at this whole 'war' thing.

>>63808395 (OP)
All they know is sadism, and torture, so they'll prioritize soft targets that cannot fight back, opposed to military targets that are better defended.

>>63808439
i mean i don't know about the rest of you but if my enemy was willing to launch that many missiles and kill that many civilians then i wouldn't want to surrender to them

>>63808395 (OP)
The point is to kill people. Their working theory is that if they kill enough people they win the war. Yes this is retarded.

behold the bringer of light

>>63808506
That's pretty much how it always works out. People get used to it, and then they get angry about it. But the Russians are not sympathetic in the slightest, so the Ukrainians only get angry at them.
Nobody wants to surrender to people who think of gay rape as a normal activity that everyone should participate in.

>>63808395 (OP)
Russia has fuck all working recon sats from the USSR still working and China sure as shit isn't going to share intel with them.
This leaves them unable to hit anything but static targets.

What does surprise me is they seem to have stopped focusing on substation transformers which are a major weakness of every grid with a lead time measured is year.

>>63808395 (OP)
USA would have nuked Kiev on day 1, ez quick victory, but vatniggers are such dumb orcs that they probably no longer have any working ones.

>>63808750
You are fucking retarded, the US has lost 2 wars without firing nukes because firing nukes in an offensive war is how you get Iran level sanctions from the whole world.
>inb4 that's fine
You don't have aluminium.

>>63808765
who's gonna sanction the sole world power that everybody tries their hardest to suck up to? the world will applaud and guess what would happen to those that don't - they'd really get sanctioned, if they're lucky. the us has never lost a war just retreated from a few intervention after getting tired of absolutely genociding the locals and enemy zerg swarms.

>>63808809
You know what the "bring back US manufacturing" cry is going out? Because you don't make shit, you are a large consumer market but the world can move on without you because you don't make anything we need.

>>63808836
I wish, if I controlled the US I could help unfuck it for you.

>>63808824
>>63808824
>You know what the "bring back US manufacturing" cry is going out?
yea making the world even more dependent on america or may I say enslaved. and ofc, the fun part, reducing china's population by 1.4B.
>don't make anything we need.
right now america makes and owns everything the world depends on to live. everything. and it will only get worse for the world.

>>63808859
The only necessity solely owned by the US is CPUs but like good goys you built a plant in Israel.

>>63808439
>There must be another reason.
Never ascribe to anything that which can be adequately explained by Russian incompetence.

Also the front has heavier air defense and is comprised smaller, more armored targets that move more often than buildings and Russia doesn't have robust military intelligence or world class eyes in the sky (hence why they hit a ton of shit that *used to be* military targets early in the war).

If they could bomb Ukrainian defenders to dust, they would. They can't so they just hit what they can and hope doing so does morale damage. It's really not that complicated.

>>63808421
It's crazy that militaries still seem to think terror bombing works when the only successful example is nukes

>>63809281
The psychological effect of the nukes by themselves is probably overstated.
Japan was not just nuked twice they were also losing cities att a rate of one or two pre week to firebombing, were starving and compleetely out of fuel due to US subs and in the process of losing their last coherent fighting force due to the Soviiet declaration of war.

>>63809294
not to mention the threat of more nukes.

>>63808700
Did someone mention THE LIGHTBRINGER

>>63808395 (OP)
Because they're kinda fucking retarded and they think morale bombing works.

>>63808395 (OP)
Can look cities up on Google maps.

>>63809390
That really depends on who you ask, both the 'surrender now' faction and the fight to the last man, woman and child' faction in Imperial High Command had some memebers who decided that it really didn't matter wether the city was blown up by a single plane or by 500, the US had those 500 planes and was working down a list of cities anyway.
You gotta remember that they did not know about fallout or radiation sickness, they just looked at the blast and fire damage and went 'eh, I've seen worse firestorms' and treated it as a big single blast.

Ironically, the US really didn't have all that many additional bombs in the pipeline.

>>63809612
Is that why China moved itself on gogle maps?

>>63808442
>the Dutch decision to capitulate probably had more to do with France and Britain experiencing catastrophic battlefield reversals further South than the Bombing of Rotterdam.
That, and the government at the time was incredibly defeatist (The prime minister literally left London for the occupied Netherlands to hand out leaflets on how to not get in trouble with the occupiers).
Terror bombing only works to hasten the inevitable when your opponent knows he can't win to begin with.

>>63808439
>There's no way even the most hard die vatnik would think that a few dozen missiles a week that destroys a handful of buildings would actually destroy Ukraine morale when it's still going strong after 3 years of war.
Most Russians seem to comply without much protest when threatened or beaten a bit. Why wouldn't they assume this is the case everywhere?
Even if it doesn't work, they've got to keep up that tough guy act because their system basically runs on thinly veiled mafia/prison rules.

>>63808442
>>I know I'm probably preaching to the converted here, but we literally tried this strategy in WWII with much greater effect and our own studies (namely the United States Strategic Bombing Survey) concluded that it didn't work.
This was excuse anyway

>>63808395 (OP)
The Russian government is physically and psychologically incapable of completely piercing Ukrainian defenses unlike how they gaslit themselves so they try to go for counter-value in the least effective way possible since they can't reliable hit juicy targets, but can't bring themselves to rely on nukes either. I think the constant ineffectual attacks are just attempts to draw air defense ire if they're not completely useless.
Russia does not have the required spycraft, coordination or trust to perform their own Op Spiderweb or Pager attack either. They're a low IQ mob too preoccupied with controlling itself than sharpening its skills.

>>63808395 (OP)
>It's not like they have infinite amount of missiles.
Not according to Orcish Lore. There are infinite gifts of the past soviet technowizards, you just have to find another Lost Depot.

>>63808824
That's actually a bullshit panic now. We're not at an ideal level but americans are doing a lot more assembly than we've done in a while and you can tell because suddenly Temu is losing to brands without lead paint and cadmium slippers.
I'm a united steel worker in a local and we were taking it hard but since china doesn't want to be a scrap customer we all said fuck it and repurposed. 1340 people formerly out of work are now combing bulk recycleables and making metal ingots for shipping off to Tennessee someplace.

>>63809294
Japan capitulated to the difference of 1 bomb doing all that. To the strange effect (at the time) of what a nuke does; anecdotes of ground waves and untouchable people and all that fucking shocked them. Just descriptions of the noise and fireball did a lot.

>>63808421
Zelenskyy WAS the puppet though.

>>63808395 (OP)
The only idea I can think of beyond the discredited idea of breaking national morale with a bunch of bombing that barely equals one WW2 air raid is that Ukrainians can flee as refugees to other countries, and be terrorized into staying there instead of returning home. Wikipedia says 6+ million Ukrainian refugees. Many because they outright lost their homes to occupation, but also plenty who are scared away from living in a war zone.

But their tactics probably have much less to do with a planned strategy to secure a win condition and more that it's simply all Russia CAN do, so they do it. Their strikes even with their expensive missiles are often so meaninglessly wasted that they clearly have poor accuracy and poor intel. They tried and failed a concerted campaign to disable the power grid. Factory and power targets are often hard to knock out, or far from the border, or politically untouchable like nuclear plants, or dispersed. Strategic missiles near the front lines are wasted unless the enemy is stacking up massive Russian-style ammo dumps etc. They do aim at factories and government buildings and power infrastructure and shit all the time, just not with remotely enough accuracy and success to achieve a better result than the halfassed terror bombing we see.

>>63809925
He was the appeasement candidate - Russian speaking harmless funny guy, let's all be friends type.

Turns out "I don't want no trouble" doesn't just apply to Jackie Chan

>>63809879
The short answer is 'no, not really'.
The nukes were a factor, yes. Just like the other things were factors. Imperial High Command was split, and if it had been only thee two nukes (or three, or five) the hardliners would have fought on.

>>63809925
Sure thing, Alenka. Hoping to watch your drone video debut soon.

>>63808431
>The Russians don't.
Oh but they do, Chechnya didn't exactly go swimmingly for them.

>>63809876
>1340 people formerly out of work are now combing bulk recycleables and making metal ingots for shipping off to Tennessee someplace.
Fucking boss, hope it continues.

>>63809876
Nice.

>>63809576
DON’T GIVE HIM BACK HIS JACKET

>>63810885
HELLO GANGNAM! I'M HERE TO DO YOUR STYLE!

>>63809749
Don't forget they actually had several more nukes in the pipeline (a small number compared to what we have now, but a serious amount at the time), and the nukes were highly publicized. It wasn't the only factor, just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I dont actually think they're targeting random apartments, but a lot of them dont reach the targets, and they gotta fall somewhere

>>63808395 (OP)
their missiles are inaccurate

>>63810896
I ATE A BIG PILE OF SPIDERS AND BUGS

>>63808395 (OP)
First, Russian recon is so bad they can't even find Ukraine forces in the field until they start shooting. Sometimes not even then.

Second, Russian commanders are more concerned with looking good than winning the war. It's a side effect of Putin being able to have anybody gulag'd without warning.

Third, typical Russian ego suggests that the Ukrainians are less steadfast than Russians and therefore will eventually collapse.

>>63808395 (OP)
they actually hit strategic and tactical targets if you bother to do a little research. manufacturing and repair are big ones, which tend to be within city limits. drone production and arm shipments are some others. airfields and air defense radars.

>>63808395 (OP)
Because it's a war of terror, Russia is a terrorist state. Putin thinks he's based Hitler hitting London with V2s.

>>63808439
They literally are that retarded, and then some.

>>63808395 (OP)
If they can make hundreds/thousands a day, thats not a waste

>>63809294
It wasn't the psychological effects of the bombings that happened, it was the psychological effects of knowing that your enemy no longer has to dedicate squadronz of bombers carrying huge bomb loads to you anymore. Japan had no idea how many nukes the US actually had or how fast they were able to build them. The idea that this could just keep happening continually is the straw that broke the camal's back.

>>63809294
>Losing one city a week
>Suddenly lose one in a day
>Then they do it again to prove it wasn't just a fluke
You don't see how this was a significant change in the nature of the bombings? Japan had no way of knowing how many bombs the US still had, as far as they knew it was possible that their stand to the last man, woman and child might only take a week or two and not kill a single gaijin.

>>63810076
>if it had been only thee two nukes (or three, or five) the hardliners would have fought on.

In the sense that Japan was also obviously losing the war, yes. If we nuked them just after say pearl Harbour instead I agree the nukes wouldn't have been enough but knowing that you're enemy is already tightening the noose while also researching, building, and utilizing new technology that you have no way of combating and comes at very little risk to your enemy, you now know there's no world where you can hurt them enough to get better terms.

>>63808395 (OP)
Russians fundamentally don't understand no one is like them, so they will attack civilians thinking that will cow the enemy to their will

>>63808809
Everybody. No one tolerates a rabid dog throwing around nukes.

>get sanctioned
By who, the US that's gonna be busy collapsing under getting sanctioned by the whole planet?

>>63808859
>yea making the world even more dependent on america or may I say enslaved
"Even more" implies something that isn't there outside the delusions you're citing in your transparent attempt at false-flagging, retard.

Right now, the world makes and owns everything the US depends on to live. US manufacturing is a sad has-been joke and nobody has been dependent on US resource exports in well over a century.

>>63809876
>I'm a united steel worker in a local ... 1340 people formerly out of work are now combing bulk recycleables and making metal ingots for shipping off to Tennessee someplace.
That's cool. I drive past a big steel factory pretty regularly that recycles it and I think it's neat. Normies respect steel workers, and also basically everybody supports this, it cuts across political lines.

>>63810021
>Factory and power targets are often hard to knock out, or far from the border, or politically untouchable like nuclear plants, or dispersed.
Yeah a majority of their power comes from three nuke plants. I was seeing some ziggers complaining about Putin not striking the Ukrainian grid hard enough. But it's like, this might actually be a lot harder than it looks.

>>63811878
>Right now, the world makes and owns everything the US depends on to live. US manufacturing is a sad has-been joke and nobody has been dependent on US resource exports in well over a century.
China makes more stuff but the U.S. is #2 in manufacturing output. You don't really understand how big the U.S. economy is and how much industrial production goes on here. We also produce more oil than Saudi Arabia and more natural gas than Russia. It could be better but you're underestimating American optimism and the country's ability to revolutionize itself. People who think the American standard of living is based on exploiting the rest of the world for its cheap resources are repeating a dogmatic, ideological line from the 1960s that you'd hear from the Soviet Union or something like that, when in fact a major part of it is the overall level of technology and productivity.

>>63808395 (OP)
Kind of stupid.
Most strategic governments researching drones are working on sewer drones, to take the back way into important assets.
>Who would design a militarized drone literally designed to crawl through miles of shit filled pipes?
>Anyone that understands assets are on the other end.

Russia's stupid.
Ukraine's stupid.
The US has enough plunger busters to take out half the world's toilets, and accompanying structures, not that anyone would ever find out until they pick a fight with us, but that's the scariest shit.

>>63812468
>India has natural immunity

>>63812417
The US is also stratospherically higher in production efficency than China, they're beating America on volume but per capita they are a joke compared to the US

>>63810082
He means that he was the peacenik option for russians, but russians fucked up even that

>>63808395 (OP)
because it's propaganda. the supposed terror attacks cause merely a few dead from a wave of hundreds of drones and missiles

>>63808824
>the world will move on without the biggest cash cow in recent memory
We make the software you're currently using, dumb fuck. Even disregarding that there is no scenario where the US isnt a leqding superpower, regardless of how much you cope about it.

>>63811862
>Japan had no way of knowing how many bombs the US still had, as far as they knew it was possible that their stand to the last man, woman and child might only take a week or two and not kill a single gaijin.
The faction who wanted to die honorabru for the emperor didn't really care.
I don't know how to convey this to you, but they just accepted that cities were going to get burned. They were the other side of LeMay saying it doesn't matter if you get burned by napalm or by radiation.

>>63812401
>But it's like, this might actually be a lot harder than it looks
My home state produces a little shy of 140,000GWh from over 60 power stations of various sizes. For total blackout conditions you're talking about hundreds of missiles before you get to connections with other states.

>>63808395 (OP)
1: As Russia showed in the first barrage at the start of the war their 'precision' weapons are just about precise enough to hit more or less the right region in the target country, probably, and their ability to find targets is limited to looking at a map and deciding 'It's probably somewhere around here'.
2: On top of being basically unable to accurately target front-line and strategic targets there's a huge amount of political pressure on the military decision making on the Russian side of the war. Even if the Russian generals were all gods of strategy (they're not) that wouldn't help much when the people writing the orders care more about how things play in the press (domestically and internationally) and are making decisions with an entirely 'non-military' set of instincts. It's basically the same shit that hit the Wehrmacht by mid WWII, and it hurt their war effort too.
3: While 'strategic bombing to break the enemies will to fight' has never worked yet Russia's goal at the moment is to cut Ukraine off from international support. While that wouldn't guarantee them a win, given the incompetence of the Russian military that has been on full display for the last few years, it would dramatically improve their position. Video of explosions in civilian centers across Ukraine in American, British, German, and French media are intended to push the idea that Ukraine is losing in those countries, so that the voters there start pressuring their governments to stop supporting Ukraine. Look up 'Hybrid War', this is basically Russian strategic doctrine 101 these days even if they fucked up the 'Special Military Operation' part of the plan this time.

>>63808439
You ask the right questions but so far everyone in this thread dodged the honest answer:
Russians love terror bombing. It is in their prison culture and their religious belief of "Russia stronk".
Ukraine deserves it, because Russia is mighty and must assert it's place. Many western analysts fall over themselves to explain why Russia does x.
You have some roundabout theories how russian generals do shit with math and the smekalka barn tanks are just adaptions to the drone war.
>Clearly you can't underestimate Russia.

But the hilariously sad truth is, all things the russian elite does is just "monkey see so monkey do" and the serfs just cobble together shitboxes because the guy in the big hat told them to advance.
The terror bombing crap ist just another layer of that. The russians see the West do desert storm and copy only the rocket attack part without any SEAD, strategy or whatever. Some hits are critical infrasteucture targets in Ukraine, but most of it is on civilians.

>>63813964
>The russians see the West do desert storm and copy
Was just about to post that the vatnik high command pointed at the "shock and awe" tactics in the opening of the Iraq invasion and said "do that!" to their subordinates with neither of them understanding the why of such tactics or having the capability to employ them in a manner that is useful for their strategic or tactical goals.