Which is the best BVR missile in service right now?

>>63809428 (OP)
Where's Meteor in your lazy ass OP?
fuckin' bot...

In terms size/wheight to effect? Meteor
Range? That chink one
Price? AIM-120

>>63809446
PL-15 is cheaper than the AIM-120

>>63809446
>That chink one
PL-15E and J-10C make Pakistan airforce better than USAF

>>63809428 (OP)
CHINA NUMBAH WAN
There, OP, I said it. Are you happy now?

>>63809469
>this is how third-worlders behave after shooting down one(1) aircraft

>>63809457
True... I actually had cost to manufacture in mind. The AIM-120 should benefit from economy of scale like no other missile

>>63809428 (OP)
Take the Chinese missiles and subtract 50-70% of their performance and you get accurate numbers.

>>63809428 (OP)
>Mach 6
>500+km

>>63809511
>>63809513
>Take the Chinese missiles and subtract 50-70% of their performance and you get accurate numbers...ACK

>>63809480
Try 6

China build a fully automated missile factory to shit out PL-15's.
Raytheon is essentially hand-crafting AMRAAMs.

aim-174b

it can hit ballistic missiles, ground targets and naval vessels too

it also will have the longest range when fired from a bird

>>63809480
All the aircraft that carry the AIM-120 have never faced comparebale aircraft, so they remain untested

>>63809755
>untested

Pakistan fired over a hundred missiles and got one kill on 4th gen target rich environment, pretty telling of Chinese missile performance

R-37M is worst, 3 years of firing this shit with AWACS and they can’t deal with Ukrainian airforce

>>63809755
SU-35/mig-29 status?

>>63810126
Not air-air combat
>>63810202
SAM-ed

>>63810150
Welcome to BVR warfare

>>63809428 (OP)
r37 is the best, it shits on anything ukraine has and especially 120c5

>>63810277
How was the Su-35 shot down by the F-16 then?

>>63809428 (OP)
>air launched sm6 has a 250-370km range
Ell em fucking ay oh

>>63810277
it's good, but the aim-174b exceeds it in range and can hit a variety of targets. the pl-17 is an unknown right now.

>>63810186
there's been claimed kills with it, and ukrainians themselves fear it. ukrainians just turn around and outrun it, which is how it goes with bvr missiles when they're shot at you from long range.

there's video footage of a mig-31 downing a su-27 with one, which is the only verifiable a2a kill so far.

>>63810368
> there's been claimed kills with it
That doesn’t make it good, if you have generational fighter advantage, multitude of AWACS and sheer quantity advantage and after 3 years your best bvr missile scored “some” kills means it’s trash.
Not only that Ukraine is now dropping hundreds of glide bombs on Russian frontlines that require them getting 50km range from front.

>>63809440
As always the FP is the BP thanks anon for not being a fag

>>63809511
I swear mutts will copium themselves into being the next Imperial Japan in WW3. China is near peer get over yourselves or in 100 years mandarin will be the lingua Franca and they’ll start re writing history books saying shit like Newton was actually Chinese and Davinci stole all his ideas from a Chinese traveler

>>63810473
>dont undelstimate oul sourress copys!

>>63810473
I'm not a mut but you are a coping brown, stay in your lane, sucking china won't improve your life, white people will always be the better engineers and scientists, live with it and try to copy us instead of living the brown life

>>63810254
It was an airplane shot down by another airplane? How is not air to air combat?
No dogfighting? Anon, these are long range missiles, the whole point is to not dogfight.

>>63810354
it's a poorly optimized design based on a 1970's form

>>63810560
Even still, that's not even close to accurate

So I'm curious, why did the US not invest in long-range A2A missiles in between the Phoenix and the 174B? Russia always had a hardon for these giant missiles they could yeet from hundreds of miles away. What was different in the US doctrine?

>>63810832
Russia relied on ground based radar (still does thanks to no more awacs) so their ability to launch from extreme ranges has always been limited to the battlespace. Long range a2a is more about forcing the enemy to turn away before they can launch, anyway, since you still have to get fairly close for a no-escape launch. The US focused on stealth to allow them to get close enough for a no-escape launch before the enemy could get a satisfactory solution on them at the extreme range of their missiles

>>63810832
Long range (awacs missile lock&track coverage more than 200km from your leading planes) is a meme and useless. VLO/ELO always beats this "traditional" style. Active seeker also needs to be quiet until its within a probable no escape to prevent opfor turning back and running the missile out of range. Which means a long range missile is mostly flying dumb for a long time, which is a huge chance of no target/target outside of high probable intercept by the time it reaches the detected zone.

As other anon said, extreme range missiles are ground/ground level defence. Big waste of money and resource and plane operating profile to haul 500kg missiles everywhere.
If it made sense the entire US fleet should just be all B-21s hauling 25 SM6s.

>>63809428 (OP)
The PL-15 almost assuredly does not have a range beyond 200km. It is effectively equal to the AIM-120D in terms of class of missile, just with a very slightly higher range. In terms of range and lethality it's likely PL-17 > AIM-174B > R-37 >> PL-15 = AIM-120D

>>63810486
Where's the US dual pulse rocket motor AAM?

>>63810995
The Indian Rafale pilot thought the same thing

>>63810998
>>63810996
>chang found the thread

>>63810998
when will chink shills provide any evidence it was a chink missile that shot it down?

also, export PL-15 has less range than export AMRAAM and i doubt china's domestic version is actually meaningfully better than the export one.

>>63810368
That video footage claimed that the Su-27 returned to base with damage, which seems extremely unlikely to me given that it puts the warhead in the same class as an AIM-54, which produces so much shrapnel that there is a confirmed double kill with one in the Iran-Iraq war. I can't see a 60kg HE-frag warhead going off within proximity fuze range (likely 15-20m) only causing light enough damage to a fighter aircraft that it can turn around and land back at base. That's the equivalent to 10 155mm HE shells going off simultaneously. The Ukrainians obviously fear it because nobody wants to get hit by a missile with a lot of kinetic energy, but unless the Russians are just firing it at absolute maximum range (300km+) then it seems strange that there are not more reported downings. A missile with the reported kinematics of the R-37M should have an NEZ in the 100km range. That means with a MiG-31 positioned at high altitude you should be able to stretch this out against low flying Ukrainian aircraft to at least 130-150km. Why are they not getting more kills? Something is up there

>>63810998
What does India have to do with what I said? None of the missiles listed there are used by India

>>63810962
Time to bring back the B-1A

>>63811031
The missiles used by the Pakistanis across that whole confrontation were all chink ones, retard.

>and I doubt
Your asspull opinion is noted.

>>63810962
>Active seeker also needs to be quiet until its within a probable no escape to prevent opfor turning back and running the missile out of range. Which means a long range missile is mostly flying dumb for a long time, which is a huge chance of no target/target outside of high probable intercept by the time it reaches the detected zone.
Isn't this mostly solved by advanced data links?
The IRIS-T isn't particularly long ranged, but as I understand, when used as a SAM, it's usually fired blind with no lock and command guided towards the target using the data link, with data from a surveillance radar or something that never really has to alert the target. Once it's in range to see the target itself, it can use its own seeker for final guidance.

>>63810494
There was no plane. The SU-35 was shot down by a SAM

>>63810995
>The PL-15 almost assuredly does not have a range beyond 200km.
Based off of what evidence?

>>63811083
According to who? Everyone ive seen is crediting an f16 assisted by a swede awacs

>>63811086
Based on china always lies and overstates its equipment's capabilities

>>63811086

>>63811083
>The SU-35 was shot down by a SAM
let me guess, Russian SAM, the very best S-400 because Su-35 can't be shot down with anything weaker than very best Russia has?

>>63809755
yeah well maybe if thirdies weren't so far behind us in tech they'd face some fucking competition. as it is we just get to win on superior technology because you faggots cant catch up.

>>63811119
i swear this board is retarded, your image says PL-15E thats the export variant, pl15 does indeed have 200-300km range

>>63810832
Long-range missiles are are heavier and wider diameter, the drag increase proportionally worsens the range increase, and increasing the weight makes it more difficult for ground crew to handle. An AMRAAM can be installed with no equipment, a 1000 lb R-37 needs a powered loader.
And as for actual range increase, there's diminishing returns as well. The longer the time to intercept is, the more time the target has to turn away and waste the missile shot.
Guidance also used to be a bigger problem, datalink cueing is a somewhat new feature, datalink cue from 3rd party radar is an even newer feature. Back then it didn't make sense to design a missile that can be shot further out than the radar can see. Odds of the datalink being jammed also increase the further you shoot, but EW is a dumb topic on 4chan.
tldr more expensive and worse aerodynamics, bit of the same reason why infantry uses 5.56 instead of 7.62 NATO (nevermind the M7)

>>63811161
>pl15 does indeed have 200-300km range
proof?

>>63811062
so no evidence? good asspull opinion then, paki poopskin.

>>63811066
Imagine everyone is using 500KM range missiles. What happens is the radius of actions (deterrent/positioning shots, maneuvering to evade, etc) is increased, but nothing else changes.

>>63809548
>If a Chinese missile shoots down one Western-made plane flown by Indians, then everything China has ever claimed is true.

>>63811652
From the debris found of the PL-15E proves that they didn't lie about the fact that they put AESA seeker onto their missiles. Not a single western AAM has AESA seeker

>>63810295
>F-16
thats just a guess at this point. We know one was shotdown but there's no definitive proof as to what dun it

>>63813713
Clearly your AESA seeker must be of low quality then, considering the pl-15 didn’t hit anything and multiple intact ones were found which failed miserably.
>inb4 jeet
That is the narrative your masters are telling you to shill, i know, basically every obvious chinkshill on /k/ since the jeet incident has tried this deflection, it just doesn’t work sorry.

>>63813812
Ok pajeet, not a single jet was lost back in 7th of may

>>63813822
>ok pajeet
>angry seething strawman response
Like clockwork
You chinkshills are so fucking predictable lol. Say hi to the gutter oil street vendor for me thirdie.

>>63813713
The Japanese AAM4 does.
>The 2010 AAM-4B was the world's first air-to-air missile with an AESA radar seeker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAM-4

>>63809428 (OP)
PL-15 is 200km max, probably not much different from the export version
If R-37M wasn't a meme it would've taken down at least one AWACS by now (supposed to be it's main role)
best right now is Meteor (good range with the best no escape zone) or maybe the new american AIM prototypes that not much is known about yet (in terms of NEZ, range is almost certainly >200km)

>>63813812
t.

>>63813842
Which part of "western AAM" that you don't understand?

>>63813865
Chinkshills use this tactic a lot recently, they’re trying to give deniability to their extremely obvious shilling by calling people who notice pajeets lol.
It’s such a transparent tactic, no wonder chinks are too stupid to build good air to air missiles

>>63813885

>>63813868
Japan is Western country

>>63809681
>it also will have the longest range when fired from a bird

The AIM-174 isn't an SM-6, it's an SM-6 minus the MK-72 booster. The booster is massive, 1500lbs, solid rocket fuel. It lofts the SM-6 way higher and faster than a shitty F-18 could.
Thus the AIM-174 will have less range than an SM-6 fired from a ship with a booster.
Additionally the SM-6 motor is optimized to gain altitude, not for cruise.
It has shit range as a result, there's a huge penalty if you optimize a missile to intercept fucking satellites and ballistic missiles.

>>63813812
>Clearly your AESA seeker must be of low quality then, considering the pl-15 didn’t hit anything and multiple intact ones were found which failed miserably.

You're obviously too dumb to realise the PL-15 has a continuous rod warhead which detonated and left the empty motor section intact because the explosion is purposefully directed to expand the rod.

>>63813998
a 174 launched at mach 1.2 from 30k should have comparable performance to an sm6 fired from the deck. Now can a super hornet carry multiple of these and hit 1.2 at 30k? Probably not, in a useful amount of time.
An f15ex on the other hand.

>>63811119
>Dance mode
please explain

>>63814027
The F-18 is generally a subsonic plane, unless it's clean and in afterburner which eats the little fuel it has too fast to really be used.
With the heavy and big 174's, no chance of hitting 1.2 for launch lmao.

The SM-6 booster puts it in high supersonic and well above 30k feet.

>>63813923
Absolutely mindbroken chinkshill kek

>>63814002
Yeah, except that’s cope and they were found with the rod section intact.

Meteor because it has the largest no-escape zone, which is all that matters really (along with range).

>>63814354
Trvthnvke, changs and amerifats stay seething.

>>63814354
>>63814373
The meteor is the best missile of it's size, but the PL-17 has 3x the range since it's 4x the size.
Obviously it is a superior BVR missile.
But the times when you could seriously call the AMRAAM a long range missile are over. Medium range at best.

>>63814379
Okay chang.

>>63814381
I'm not chinese, you have to figure out a new cope.

>>63814379
>has 3x the range
No it doesn't. The range of the Meteor is 200km. The claimed max range of the PL-17 is 400km so that's double... But most experts believe 400km to be bullshit so maybe between 300km-400km.

So you're wrong regardless.

>>63814398
Post hands.

>>63814402
PL-17 range is 600km.

>>63814408
Suuure

>>63814414
Denying things you do not like only works when you're a very young child.

>>63814418
Yeah bud, China has never ever lied about a product.

>>63813998
launching at 40,000+ feet at mach 1+ on a lofted trajectory gets you out to extreme ranges that will be close to 1,000 kilometers on static targets

>>63814153
My dude 30k feet removes 60% of the starting drag and launching at speed is an equivalent gain. I said comparable i didnt say exact. Consider the plane launching a 174 will be ahead of a carrier possibly by 80 or more miles.

>>63814379
The Advanced MEDIUM RANGE Air to Air Missile was always know to be medium ranged by the literate.

>>63814461
>casually ignores any drag
>>63814481
The average american is not literate.

>>63813998
>way higher and faster than a shitty F-18 could.
No. Burnout is around mach 1 at 30k ft. Very, very similar to ehat alt and velocities a SH can launch them at.

>>63814868
you got a source on that?

>>63809440
'tis true

>>63814490
>>casually ignores any drag
no, it's factored in. the missile will be coming down like the phoenix; awacs moving sedately should be able to be hit at that range and fighters head on that don't pull any serious gs.

pl-17 is said to behave the same way, but there's little in the way of an actual info on it.

>>63809440
Nobody who saw it lived to tell the tale.

>>63811086
Based off the shape and size of the missile. It's a bit longer than an AIM-120D and 14% wider, that is not going to add 50% more range than the existing 160km range of the AMRAAM. People love the dual pulse meme but dual pulse motors don't actually extend overall range by a significant margin, 4-6% is generally what you can expect based on CFD simulations I have seen. They extend the no escape zone because the extra kinematic boost makes the missile more effective for a longer distance but it doesn't do much extra over longer range shots because if you're lofting the missile anyway then that rocket fuel for the 2nd pulse is taking up space that would have contributed to the rocket fuel mass regardless. Technically both the AMRAAM and the PL-15 can reach out beyond their max range, but the max range figure for both countries usually refers to maximum range that the missile can travel and still perform maneuvers to track and hit a target maneuvering somewhat mildly, in the US case I believe it's range that the missile can still hit a co altitude target moving at 3G for 5 seconds or something along those lines.

>>63816112
Nobody mentions that "dual pulse" is just a poor man's throttable/meteor

>>63816137
There are downsides to rocket ramjets, like limited high loft capability and cost, but yes generally rocket ramjets are preferable to standard rocket motors and their variants if possible. Price does have a somewhat significant effect here though as a standard rocket motor or dual pulse version has quite a bit lower impact, the domestic cost for Meteor is about 2.5x the domestic cost for the AMRAAM per missile

>>63809428 (OP)
Of the missiles in this image, the SM-6.

>>63810354
OP is a wumao of course he is going to sandbag the competition.

>>63810832
>why did the US not invest in long-range A2A missiles in between the Phoenix and the 174B?

Do yourself a favor and make the slightest effort in research.

>>63816199
This is also not taking into consideration the electronics in a Meteor are not comperable to current model AMRAAM.

>>63810473
Mandarin won't exist in 100 years and chia will be muslim.

自由西藏 Free Tibet 1989 年天安门广场抗议活动 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右斗争 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大跃进 The Great Leap Forward 无产阶级文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人权 Human Rights 民主化 Democratization 自由 Freedom 独立Independence 多方制度 Multi-party system 台湾就是福尔摩沙Taiwan Formosa 中华民国 Republic of China 西藏Tibet 达赖喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法轮大法 Falun Dafa 新疆维吾尔自治区 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 诺贝尔和平奖 Nobel Peace Prize 刘晓波 Liu Xiaobo 习近平是小熊维尼 Winnie the Pooh 黑人同性婚姻 Gay marriage with other races

>>63814002
Motor sections are fucked after exploding the charge, not like confetti but it ain't good.

>>63814408
it's 296km as observed by everyone that isn't chinese who is made to go report on these potemkin military tests.

>>63811119
Why did you cropped the pic anon?

>>63810254
More liek SAM-D'd, amiright?

>>63810995
>In terms of range and lethality it's likely PL-17 > AIM-174B > R-37 >> PL-15 = AIM-120D
A PL-15E just had a 300km kill.

>>63817661
According to Pakistan. I dont give a shit what jeets have to say about anything.

>>63817661
It is INCREDIBLY unlikely that Pakistan got a 300km kill with the PL-15E, the dimensions of the missile and the physics do not allow for it, especially since China appears to reduce the range by omitting fuel. 300km would be high altitude launch ballistic range with the missile making no maneuvers and the enemy aircraft flying straight at you also making 0 maneuvers for the entire time of flight. I would doubt that the battery inside the PL-15 would even be able to power the missile for that long

>>63817661
>pl15e had a 300 km kill
lol, lmao even might as well claim it had a 600 km kill

>>63817342
the images say otherwise. fuck off.

>>63809548
Anon the range of those hits didn't exceed 100km.

>>63810996
Anon, dual pulse isn't a magic technology only known to the chinka, it just means the SRB burns hot after a small gap between burnings, this is basic rocketry and extremely easy to manufacture its not a Chinese wonderwaffen.
There are several different burn types western missiles can use, it entirely depends on how you pack the missile in manufacture.

>>63817273
china is one of the few countries they have their muslim problem under control. Seriously, the west (especially europe) needs to take some notes on how you should treat muslims.

>>63809428 (OP)
muh dikk

>>63819802
>Anon, dual pulse isn't a magic technology only known to the chinka

I mean everyone except the US is using them by now.

>it just means the SRB burns hot after a small gap between burnings, this is basic rocketry and extremely easy to manufacture its not a Chinese wonderwaffen.

Well it seems it takes the US ages to get the AIM-260 developed nevertheless.

>>63823715
Dual pulse is basically, the US has already used them on the SM-6 for a while now. There just isn't a whole lot of benefit to using it, it doesn't increase overall range by a whole lot, it just extends the NEZ a little bit. This small bonus is not worth wasting money to re-engine a missile to get a slightly higher Pk when it's supposed to be replaced soon regardless.

>>63823765
You're a troll randomly making up shit.