How dangerous could Chinese carriers be in a real war? - /k/ (#63840031) [Archived: 1019 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:32:49 PM No.63840031
IMG_4237
IMG_4237
md5: 7474039b1996036ae2948bd2fb30554b🔍
Japan, America, and the UK have operated aircraft carriers since the 1920s. In that time they’ve built hundreds of them. They’ve used them in battle and lost many. The PLAN has never fought a carrier battle let alone lost one in combat. They’re still new to all of this and have no experience with it. They have no first hand knowledge of damage control, operating in rough seas etc. Could they really challenge UK, JAP, and US carriers in a fight? Discuss
Replies: >>63840180 >>63840198 >>63840205 >>63840207 >>63840214 >>63840283 >>63840376 >>63840401 >>63840474 >>63840583 >>63840705 >>63840832 >>63840835 >>63840947 >>63840998 >>63841009 >>63841105 >>63841114 >>63841227 >>63842095 >>63842114 >>63842271 >>63843462 >>63843488
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:52:19 PM No.63840162
Bump
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:54:32 PM No.63840180
>>63840031 (OP)
>Discuss
Why?
Replies: >>63840200
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:57:51 PM No.63840198
>>63840031 (OP)
no
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:58:03 PM No.63840200
>>63840180
I want your opinions on it.
Replies: >>63840204
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:59:02 PM No.63840204
>>63840200
Prove you aren't a chink shill just shitting up the board and I'll consider it
Replies: >>63840226
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:59:07 PM No.63840205
>>63840031 (OP)
I imagine that it can launch and recover planes, even if the american counterparts can run laps around it. That's a significant capability, so sinking it will probably be the first thing the USN would do in a war
Replies: >>63840320
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 6:59:13 PM No.63840207
>>63840031 (OP)
Beyond paper, barely. They lack carrier-based aircraft so that makes them essentially useless. It'll be years before they get a legitimate carrier workhorse.
Replies: >>63840256
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:00:31 PM No.63840214
>>63840031 (OP)
Subs will decide the carrier war and with how much trouble the USSR had keeping subs quiet my money is on the US winning that battle.
Replies: >>63840320
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:01:41 PM No.63840226
>>63840204
I mean I basically shit on China in my initial post. I think they’re a bunch of newbs who’d get BTFO trying to use their carriers in a fight. I see western defense experts panicking about their ship building but what good are ships if you don’t know how to use them? I want to talk about it though.
Replies: >>63840238 >>63840338 >>63842176
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:05:06 PM No.63840238
>>63840226
Go ask chatgpt
Replies: >>63840260
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:08:02 PM No.63840256
>>63840207
That’s kind of what I’m thinking too, the PLAN is big but it’s inexperienced. Modern warfare is all about striking first. Making a mistake in that situation is fatal
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:09:03 PM No.63840260
>>63840238
Chink
Replies: >>63840287
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:10:11 PM No.63840270
Just drop x100 Harpoons on Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam

No more Liaonings and Fujians

The loss of one would be an enormous loss of face for the Chinks
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:12:03 PM No.63840283
>>63840031 (OP)
China's strength comes from strong defenses on the coast and land airbases. Where their missiles can't strike and fighters have the benefit of being able to carry max weapons without worry about range.
Their carriers would serve to harass enemy shipping, which would only work if they were already out at sea when a war began. Prepositioning is key. Otherwise, their smaller air groups won't penetrate another's fleet defenses. Maybe they could try to be like the Japanese carriers at Leyte and serve as bait to lure Americans away from another force.
Replies: >>63840299 >>63840319
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:12:37 PM No.63840287
>>63840260
okay, ask deepseek-R1
Replies: >>63840320
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:14:45 PM No.63840299
>>63840283
They’d be good bait for sure. China doesn’t even need carriers to invade Taiwan. Waste of resources to build them imho. They should have built 6 gorrilion small submarines instead
Replies: >>63840319 >>63841246
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:16:40 PM No.63840319
>>63840283
Whoops. Where their missiles CAN strike from.

>>63840299
I wonder if anyone would take the bait. They would be a threat in that they do have weapons, but in the grand scheme of things a handful of Flankers wouldn't be much of a threat.
If they're out in deeper waters, away from the coasts, then sub skippers might go on a hunt for them.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:16:43 PM No.63840320
>>63840287
Ok Chang
>>63840205
Chinkoid planes did okay against India but that’s not saying much
>>63840214
Probably true
Replies: >>63840335
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:17:50 PM No.63840329
carriers are for bombing stone-age sandniggers. They aren't very useful against near-pear opponents these days
Replies: >>63840352 >>63840362
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:18:21 PM No.63840335
>>63840320
>Ok Chang
I told you to use an American LLM first, but you threw a hissy fit. I'm sorry you seemingly can't even trust your own AI.
Replies: >>63840383 >>63840383
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:18:46 PM No.63840338
>>63840226
Most of the chinese carriers are training carriers. They would not be used outside of token demonstration in a real war, least not
before things get desperate.
The only one they actually have is the Fuijan which isn't even technically commisioned yet. Its about the size of a Forrestal class, a US carrier from the early Cold War. For compliment it mostly has J15 variants (upgraded Flankers) and in theory will have J35s in the future (some people will claim in has them now but there has been zero evidence of that). This isn't even going into the integration and development of forces to operate around the carrier to protect it and enable it; China is still getting that in place.
>Against the US
I won't even entertain this
>Against the UK
Big questions about the status of the Royal Navy. If you catch them on a good day, your ass is grass. But shit has not been going great for a variety of reasons and its possible one QE doesn't show and the Chinese get lucky on the second QE and can sink it. I don't think that is likely, but its not an insignificant chance.
>Against Japan
People underestimate the Japs, especially on the water. If we are having a carrier force vs carrier force engagement, I would easily put my money on the JMSDF and sleep easy that night.
>Against France
No one really knows for sure just how useful the CdG still is. I suspect that some day soon someone is gonna fuck around and find out just how serious a baguette across the head can really hurt.
Replies: >>63840549
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:20:47 PM No.63840352
>>63840329
They could because dangerous again if counter measures to missiles can catch up. We’ll see what lasers become over the next few years. I don’t understand why China is building carriers though. It makes sense for the US, UK, and Japan but it doesn’t seem like they help China all that much. Just a waste of money and steel
Replies: >>63840380 >>63840396 >>63840549 >>63841056
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:22:47 PM No.63840362
>>63840329
They are the peak of global force projection and vital to any expeditionary force, they are not for naval warfare and should be kept in the rear.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:24:12 PM No.63840376
aDX1PLLJ_700w_0
aDX1PLLJ_700w_0
md5: 7ecaa129e66a61a3d44cda9e477356d4🔍
>>63840031 (OP)
>The PLAN has never fought a carrier battle let alone lost one in combat
Is there a functional difference between china having to learn carrier warfare through academia, and say Japan learning carrier warfare from operations during ww2?
Replies: >>63840398 >>63840408 >>63840581 >>63840600 >>63842208
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:24:42 PM No.63840380
>>63840352
>I don’t understand why China is building carriers though.
Force projection in the future when US fails as state and retreats from world police role .
Sea laws go back to anarchy and piracy and China economy is built on exporting stuff. Then you need carriers to teach countries like Yemen manners.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:24:48 PM No.63840383
>>63840335
Mad chinksect
>>63840335
The British should have just bought a couple modified Wasp class LHD’s from us desu. Could have deleted the well deck and done a couple of other simple modifications to it for cheap.
Replies: >>63840416
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:26:51 PM No.63840396
>>63840352
Its to keep US+Allies honest and because they know carrier ops are not just a think you flip a switch and can do.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:27:03 PM No.63840398
>>63840376
I mean reading about it in a book is not the same thing as having to patch a giant burning hole in your flight deck in the middle of rough seas. Japan and the west have done these things before, China hasn’t.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:27:17 PM No.63840401
>>63840031 (OP)
They have shit capacity and shortie rate for tonnage, however you need navel aviation for anti-sub patrols. I assume the chinks will continue to rely on shore-based missiles, land based interceptors, land-based support aircraft, and stationary conventional submarines for shore defense. Though these could act as a fire-brigade to plug holes in defenses its more likely they are meant to provide at least token resistance to SSNs fucking around out at sea. So in that way their apparent issues with endurance and sea-keeping aren't as big and issue. But if they have to deal with the air wing of a proper carrier which really are just the US ones since the UK cucked out on nuclear power they have zero chance unless operating close to shore and even then they are the worst asset to oppose the enemy force. I suppose they could stand up to the small Jap carriers because they serve essentially the same function.

Helicopter Carrier<STVOL Carrier<Large Carrier<Super Carrier<more land-based aircraft than most nations have

That is the ascending order of airwings, each one theoretically trumping the previous and thus being able to deny them the ability to conduct anti-submarine operations. If they enemy SSNs have free reign they fuck with the rest of your shit. The surface vessels support and defend the carrier as well as use large missiles to attack other surface combatants. They also engage in anti-sub patrols as they go but dropping buoys via aircraft is the quickest way to cover an area of ocean. The conventional subs have good endurance when stationary but essentially non while moving and end up just being submerged surface vessels when on the move. SSNs can travel quickly for an indefinite time and thus dictate the engagement even to stationary and essentially entrenched conventional subs, thus once again necessitating anti-sub patrols to prevent this.

It should be noted that the Chinks have maybe 3 "decent" SSNs.
Replies: >>63840439
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:28:51 PM No.63840408
>>63840376
Consider taking two groups of young people. You want to teach them welding.
Group 1 does 50% bookwork and 50% hands-on with experienced instructors
Group 2 does 90% bookwork and 10% lectures from guys that have watched experienced welders.

Who do you trust to work on the bridge you cross everyday?
Replies: >>63840429
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:29:49 PM No.63840416
1720246169584912
1720246169584912
md5: ae280d3063d0e03b4490e8277ec407d5🔍
>>63840383
>Mad chinksect
Okay
Replies: >>63842684 >>63843500
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:31:43 PM No.63840429
>>63840408
>Who do you trust to work on the bridge you cross everyday?
The one who have 110 IQ and don't trust those who have 85 IQ.
Replies: >>63840555 >>63840590
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:33:20 PM No.63840439
>>63840401
>but dropping buoys via aircraft is the quickest way to cover an area of ocean.
Everyday that I wake up and recall that they canned the S-3 and STILL don't even have a replacement in even development is absolute agony. The USN is out of its fucking mind since the GWoT.
Replies: >>63840590
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:39:19 PM No.63840474
>>63840031 (OP)
Probably absolute shit. They have no modern blue water naval tradition and are trying to skip multiple steps at once.

I'd be more interested in the inevitable North Korean Carrier, they at least aren't stupid enough going from corvette with a helipad to Alexi express USS Gerald R. Ford in one step.
Replies: >>63840509 >>63840590
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:44:46 PM No.63840509
ButlerSF1MJ12
ButlerSF1MJ12
md5: 1563b62c9c7222f4e9c5a063d3ae5050🔍
>>63840474
>Probably absolute shit. They have no modern blue water naval tradition and are trying to skip multiple steps at once.
>t.
Replies: >>63840591
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:51:50 PM No.63840549
Italian-Navys-Cavour-aircraft-carrier-completes-F-35B-sea-trials-scaled
>>63840352
To show the flag in foreign ports and be recruitment tools.

>>63840338
With the US, UK, Japan, Italy- there is an ability to operate across any of those nations' carriers (and some amphibious landing ships) with the F-35. In a multinational coalition, that is pretty valuable.
Replies: >>63840579
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:52:59 PM No.63840555
>>63840429
Inability to engage with hypotheticals isn't the look you think it is.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:57:21 PM No.63840579
>>63840549
I didn't specifically bring up the F35 but it was in my mind when doing my analysis, particularly in that China would only have J15s.
As for Italy specifically, I left them off simply because I don't really know of any instances of them operating far from their shores (they pretty much stick to the Med afaik). Meanwhile, UK and France will do FoN passes or deal with flare-ups in Africa/S.America. And while Japan doesn't go that far, China is right next door. In short, I left Italy off as I don't think its likely they'd engage with the Chinese, least not past the point where the Fuijan is on the sea floor.
Replies: >>63840633
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:57:27 PM No.63840581
>>63840376
Japan's WW2 experience was them developing a very strong air corp but forsaking the other parts of the combined fleet. AA and ASW defense. Good carriers and pilots mean little when they cannot survive.
China might have some decent supports to their carriers in AA and ASW, but the CVs themselves are weak as striking tools. The current carriers are to learn air-ops as they wait for their ships to get more space and their planes to become something other than physically large J-15s.
Replies: >>63840600
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:57:46 PM No.63840583
>>63840031 (OP)
It depends how well their naval aviation perform. If that E-2 knockoff works as well as the original, they've instantly elevated themselves into a top-tier navy.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:58:53 PM No.63840590
>>63840439
I mean you can drop the new smaller buoys from almost any aircraft it's just not efficient to do so.

Also as stated the Chinks have 3 whole subs worth a shit as in maybe equivalent to the shittiest LAs still in service, the most recent of the Shang class, the rest are so loud its not going to be hard to find them. But then again to root out all those shitty diesels while they are sitting on a shallow seafloor you'd need a lot of buoys. They've got maybe 20 "okay" diesels in the Yuan class, the later ones might be better. It seems like the Chinks are sinking their efforts into destroyers and maybe compensating for inferior designs and electronics by making them bigger. Think of them like the old coast defense battleships of the 1890s to 1930s. The entire chink approach seems similar to the monitor doctrine or new school of the French in the late 1800s. Both of those are deemed failures but we'll see.

>>63840429
Given that the Chinese lie about everything is suspect that their claimed mean IQ of 102(vs 104 for American whites) is inflated. Which is supported by the limited data we could get from the PISA tests which were administered by foreigners before China stopped participating. The scores are more consistent with those of Vietnam which has a mean IQ of 92.

>>63840474
More like a Kittyhawk really, but without nuclear power and possibly with insufficient compartmentalization if their destroyers are anything to go on.
Replies: >>63840619 >>63840622
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 7:58:53 PM No.63840591
>>63840509
Japan did a speed run on their navy (which i strongly believe the Norks are deliberately copying) but they did all the proper steps for the era, their first 'modern' ship was a third hand Confederate Iron Clad.
Replies: >>63840640
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:00:01 PM No.63840600
>>63840376
>>63840581
You guys are aware that Japan invented modern carrier warfare in WW1 right?
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:05:08 PM No.63840619
>>63840590
>But then again to root out all those shitty diesels while they are sitting on a shallow seafloor you'd need a lot of buoys. They've got maybe 20 "okay" diesels in the Yuan class, the later ones might be better.

China's diesel sub fleet does have a huge advantage in that at least a portion of it is effectively impossible to destroy, it can't even be even bottled up unless the RoK joins a conflict.
Replies: >>63842704
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:05:38 PM No.63840622
>>63840590
>I mean you can drop the new smaller buoys from almost any aircraft it's just not efficient to do so.
The lack of (fixed-wing) ASW onboard carriers is gonna get people killed, mark my words. Its one think if you are China can you can rely on MPA to fill the gap, by USN CSG often operate far from friendly airbases.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:08:43 PM No.63840633
Carriers_Cavour_(550)_-_Harry_S._Truman_(CVN-75)_and_Charles_de_Gaulle_(R91)_underway_in_2013
>>63840579
Fair enough to not include Italy in considering Pacific operations. I was more alluding to the value of cooperation/standardization as a whole, in any part of the world. Even prior to the F-35, American and French naval aviators qualified on each other's ships in a similar way.

Looking at countering China specifically, the numerous USN and JMSDF flattops mean the airbases are mobile and can send aircraft from multiple directions. The PLA(N) may have a large force but they'd be coming from predictable areas. I believe any war would have a buildup period where each side positions their assets and waits for someone to make a move. So sorties of Chinese carriers would be noticed, and of course the Chinese would be watching US/allied carrier movements. Still, a lot more allied targets to track.
Replies: >>63840680
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:09:42 PM No.63840640
>>63840591
>but they did all the proper steps for the era, their first 'modern' ship was a third hand Confederate Iron Clad.
You don't say?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_destroyer_Hangzhou
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:16:42 PM No.63840680
>>63840633
The original question was about how other nations would stack up against China's carriers, so that is what I was aiming to address.
>pic
I would like this picture more if you could see the other flags better. The USA flag is so clearly visible and the other two are all scrunched up and you can't even tell what they are unless you are a ship nerd.
Replies: >>63840967
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:19:53 PM No.63840702
Carriers are only useful in an offensive war where you want the ability to have airfields nearby whatever shithole you're currently kicking the door off of, especially if you are incapable of challenging the opposing navy for sea dominance. Chinese carriers are not for fighting the USN or any other Western power around Taiwan, they are for allowing the chinks to start to bully thirdies in the same way the US does by parking a CSG off their coast if they start acting dumb. For this purpose, the chink carriers are probably fine, though we'll probably see exactly how it plays out in the coming decade as they try to throw their weight around in Africa, assuming they don't do the funny at Taiwan and get skullfucked for flying too close to the sun.
Replies: >>63840712
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:20:29 PM No.63840705
>>63840031 (OP)
I do not think chinese carriers are meant to challenge other carriers.
They're meant to fight small insurgencies and small pockets of resistance in the island chains after long range ballistic anti-ship missiles with hypersonic warheads took out all major enemy vessels. Carriers are prime targets ofc.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:21:17 PM No.63840712
>>63840702
They are more likely to fuck around in SEA first before Africa.
Replies: >>63840846
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/15/2025, 8:35:55 PM No.63840797
I really need to educate myself on the PLAN, besides the Bohai Sea and Korea bay being deathtraps there is a serious gap in my knowledge.

Anyone have any handy resources? Obviously the Chinese portion of the Yellow Sea would be of interest but a broad study of the subject would serve me well. Online stuff would be great but i'm not adverse to buying hard copies.
Replies: >>63840823
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:40:23 PM No.63840823
>>63840797
I would help but you are generally unreasonable so I have no interest in feeding you. Maybe work on yourself instead?
Replies: >>63840878
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:41:55 PM No.63840832
>>63840031 (OP)
Hard to say, because the purpose of a carrier in the context of China's strategic goals is unclear. They just wanted then because the US has them.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:42:30 PM No.63840835
>>63840031 (OP)
they rofl stomp any none USN carrier groups. They're the only ones besides the USN that can field a super carrier + CG/DDG escorts + SSN screen
besides, no one has fought a carrier battle in the missile age
Replies: >>63842859
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:45:16 PM No.63840846
>>63840712
They've already been in Africa for a while and have had to make implicit threats of military action when said nigger countries realize what they've signed up for when taking Chinese money. SEA is an area that's not rich enough in resources for China to get as invested beyond wanting them to not be friendly with the US due to obvious concerns, but Africa has seen a lot of chink investment in order to try and obtain both strategic and economic resources and the carriers are an important part of keeping the Africans from getting uppity and trying to nationalize or otherwise fuck over the chinks.
Replies: >>63840880
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/15/2025, 8:50:26 PM No.63840878
>>63840823
I'm sorry to hear that, i go out of my way to be reasonable and have had people comment on it. Perhaps i may get you to reconsider?

Whatever flaws i may have that you dislike surely would be improved by education would they not? Logically if you are critical of my positions you should go out of your way to assist me; you are being offered a unique chance to shape my education and thus my opinions.
Replies: >>63840895
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:50:33 PM No.63840880
>>63840846
What they haven't been doing is bringing their carriers anywhere near Africa. Which is what we are talking about.
Replies: >>63840906
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:53:06 PM No.63840895
>>63840878
I've engaged with you in the past. You are stuck in your beliefs and will not alter despite evidence presented because you are emotionally attached to them. This "opportunity for education" you provide is a farce. Like I said: Work on yourself rather than engaging in obviously transparent psychological games.
Replies: >>63841030 >>63842883
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 8:54:33 PM No.63840906
>>63840880
They haven't been sending them to SEA either, but they've been a lot more willing to flex military muscles in Africa then SEA where they've largely stuck to diplomacy, even if it's started to become Wolf Warrior-esque. There's no reason for China to park a CSG off of Indonesia, or any other SEA shithole, because no one believes they're going to start a war in the USN's backyard over nothing, while putting one off Africa to conduct "anti-terrorist" operations is much more palatable to the rest of the world.
Replies: >>63840979
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:02:18 PM No.63840947
>>63840031 (OP)

> Could they really challenge UK, JAP, and US carriers in a fight?

Yes, but they need to mass spam a million missiles and smaller ships to do so and for that they need to be close to home. That seems to be the strategy.

The have around 1000 DF-21D "carrier-killer" missiles. Around 50 for every American carrier.

In other words: if the battle if fought in the south china sea, yes. If it's fought in every other place, no.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:05:26 PM No.63840967
>>63840680
Technically you can see the french flag if you squint a little. It's the Italian flag that's nearly impossible to see unless you know where to look at. Man the bad timing on when the picture was took somewhat screwed the Italians here when it comes to identifying which ship comes from what country.
Replies: >>63840991
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:08:17 PM No.63840979
>>63840906
Vietnam, Mynamar, and the Philippines are all FAR more likely than Somalia, Sudan, or Tanzania. I no longer care if you are willing to acknowledge the self-evident. Whatever you post, I will not be replying, consider the "win" yours.
Replies: >>63842738
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:10:05 PM No.63840991
>>63840967
>if you squint a little
Yeah, that was my point. I just want the other flags as proud and visible as the American one. France's being very tiny and partially obscured by fog/haze is unfortunate.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:10:59 PM No.63840998
1747175420944634
1747175420944634
md5: 35efe65713f6974763f281ab4b76f11f🔍
>>63840031 (OP)
>They have no first hand knowledge
Are there any serving members of the USN that have been in a naval conflict of any kind?
Replies: >>63841015
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:12:23 PM No.63841009
shinto priest blesses f35
shinto priest blesses f35
md5: 0bcd864427083c1fa3594b5723fb05a5🔍
>>63840031 (OP)
i'd presume they wouldn't lose them all doing something stupid because they've had to at least kept up on studying modern carrier theory and practice. however, the J-15 is the only plane confirmed launchable by their carriers, which is outclassed by USN carrier planes, the F-18 and F-35.

while JP lacks adequate carriers for carrier vs carrier combat, the F-15J and F-2 is the equivalent of facing off against modern land-based USAF, which puts the J-15 in a compromised position. both of JP's planes in that case would be a fair match for the J-15, if not an overmatch in the case of the F-15J. though again, this is not the JP's naval force, that would instead by F-35's once they're operational, which is an unfortunate overmatch for the J-15. this capability is still in development though, so there's a chance PLAN could take them to task on their own.

UK carriers are slightly dated by this point, saved only by the fact that the F-35 is such an overmatch for the J-15. it's a growing area of concern i'd say, but of course, the UK has allies, and if we're assuming that the PLAN is somehow engaged with all three at once, it would be a rather one-sided affair.

PLAN AWACS has not been thoroughly tested(in any unclassified reporting so far), marking a possible blind spot, as if their naval AWACS is not up to the task, it will rather handily negate the possible bonus of the PL-15, or at least the claimed performance of the PL-15. i will note that i'm unaware of comparable missiles in the JP and UK carrier fleets, but the US has the AIM-174B. the USN is not considered mission capable for a major engagement in both europe and china at the moment, but is considered mission capable to fight on a single front. the PLAN should avoid that matchup.

the real question is why china would bother attempting a blue-water naval engagement against the others, as their territorial aims are much more local.
Replies: >>63841057 >>63841073 >>63841142
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:13:02 PM No.63841015
9xhvma[1]
9xhvma[1]
md5: bc32d1af7c7b6674d282905a6026f781🔍
>>63840998
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/15/2025, 9:14:49 PM No.63841030
>>63840895
I respect that, however i strongly believe you are mistaken in your assumptions about my beliefs. I am not a 'Nork worshipper' or whatever some may think, it is an area of interest. I have zero commitment to their ideology and am absolutely opposed to those of their allies and their allies goals*

*Vietnam and Ethiopia are friendly with them and are nominally allies, both of those are just fine by me.
Replies: >>63841073 >>63841947
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:18:58 PM No.63841056
>>63840352
They want carriers now for the imaginary time later when they've retaken Taiwan and can then project their power beyond the Philippine sea.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:19:12 PM No.63841057
f35_thumb.jpg
f35_thumb.jpg
md5: edeaf8d5bf15c3cfe78a2eae8f1d0b4d🔍
>>63841009
>fart in face <in japanese>
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:21:11 PM No.63841073
>>63841030
>I am not a 'Nork worshipper'
No one said that.
Jesus you are reprehensible
>>63841009
>i'm unaware of comparable missiles in the JP and UK carrier fleets
UK has the older but reliable Meteor. Japan has the less effective but still useful AAM-4.
Replies: >>63841119
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:27:25 PM No.63841105
>>63840031 (OP)
It would get sunk immediately considering that all their neighbors have anti-ship missiles, there’s no way the bugs would bring the fujian to a modern conflict.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:29:11 PM No.63841114
>>63840031 (OP)
Pretty sure they mostly exist so China can start to practice the institutional knowledge required to operate them effectively so they can be a real naval force in a few decades. As things are, they're just targets.
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/15/2025, 9:30:32 PM No.63841119
>>63841073
Well what is your objection then? I am getting personally invested in this, i have no problem with someone disliking or even hating me, i just like to know why. If it was my personality that would be fine but you specified my beliefs as the issue.

If you are mistaken about my beliefs then i think i deserve the chance to correct you if you are wrong, if you are correct about them and still dislike me then that is fine as well. Regardless of the reason you dislike someone if you decide to hate them without letting them know why then you are automatically the one who is wrong.
Replies: >>63841136
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:33:04 PM No.63841136
>>63841119
Bro, not interested. Fuck off.
Replies: >>63841190
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:34:21 PM No.63841142
>>63841009
I doth harbor suspicions that the 6 Astutes would give the Chinks a hard time due to their oversized sonar. They would be two few to break into Chinese costal waters due to the the reduced size of the surface navy and reduced airwings of the Elizabeths, they are still better than the chinese equivalents. I'd say the British would win a blue water fleet action handily, but can't really blockade China.

I don't think China really can have a blue water fleet action against any of the great naval powers, though Japan would struggle simply because even with the questionable quality of the SSNs at China's disposal their speed can simply force the Japanese diesels to become entirely reactive while the Chinks could hypothetically try to push the Japs to a location where their own pre-positioned diesels could become a telling factor. 60/40 in the favor of Japan only because the Chinese are fucking up so much lately that everything they say is suspect.

Also what's with the Chink obsession with AESA radars? It's not just buttmad chinks online I've seen leaked PLAN stuff the sucks AESA off but everything I've heard from 3rd parties either depicts them as decent but nothing special or not even as effective as mechanical radars of the 90s in some cases. I'm saying AESA isn't the way to go but they seem to treat merely having it as some kind instant win condition.
Replies: >>63841181 >>63841193
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:39:57 PM No.63841181
>>63841142
-not saying- AESA isn't the way to go
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/15/2025, 9:41:30 PM No.63841190
1742604050688658
1742604050688658
md5: f22c4e6633369c8848bbb44613fcfc4e🔍
>>63841136
Right, so total internet argument victory to me even though i gave you every opportunity, opening and chance. Sorry for whatever it is that upsets you and drives you to embarrass yourself in this way if it was my fault, i guess we will never know.

Please let these gentlemen escort you out.
Replies: >>63841203
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:42:18 PM No.63841193
>>63841142
"AESA" is just a type, its not a measure of quality or capability. But given that its new (and that western powers have had to spend a lot to make AESA better than what they had spent a lot of time perfecting already) by just technically meeting the requirement of being labelled as AESA you give the impression you have a much more effective system than you actually have. Its somewhat like where China says they have the largest navy in the world...if you count hulls. Most people will agree that tonnage or capability of the hulls mater more though. A squadron of destroyers is a shoe-in to defeat a few dozen river patrol boats. Hopefully you get the idea from that rough analogy.
Replies: >>63841266
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:43:38 PM No.63841203
>>63841190
>Like I said: Work on yourself rather than engaging in obviously transparent psychological games.
Enjoy your win
Replies: >>63841302
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:47:28 PM No.63841227
>>63840031 (OP)
Best case scenario they can trade 1 for 1 with a us CSG. At which point they will have none (besides their Kuz derivatives) and the US will send over one of their other ten.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:51:12 PM No.63841246
>>63840299
They're building carriers to get practice running carrier ops so that they can fulfil their aspirations of policing the SCS
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:54:59 PM No.63841266
>>63841193
So just usual bragging perhaps? I remember some chink on here practically screaming that the US didn't have AESA on its carriers despite the fact that they were secluded to get the AN/SPY-6. And all the aircraft onboard already had AESA because for smell radar systems on platforms which can't fit multiple radars already it has more immediate advantages like transmitting in two frequencies without a bunch of extra bullshit. I assumed it was just the usual bluster but then I say some leaked pp slides which were praising new chink AESA systems on their destroyers, so I thought either there might actually be something to this or that the guy was an actual government shill or at least had some inside information.

I know both the Chinks and the Ruskies have an obsession with this counter intelligence shit, but if they put half the effort into making or at least stealing and replicating functional gear they'd be better off. I mean they were able to make decent red dots and level 4 plates which are dirt cheap but they can't make good aircraft screws after 40 years of trying? Da duck?
Replies: >>63841282
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 9:57:24 PM No.63841282
>>63841266
>So just usual bragging perhaps?
I would say that its safe to say some of their AESAs are "decent" if not "good." The mistake is assuming they all are. And they activel yseek to perpetuate that misconception
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/15/2025, 10:00:45 PM No.63841302
>>63841203
I will.

Be aware that your advice has been told to me before by several others and i have been following it. I have been trying to expand my knowledge past my obsessive interest, my current focused is on non DPRK Asian naval forces and natural nations like Vietnam in general. I have also tried to use my trip less unless actually needed, be less obnoxious with Nork memes (i know, i'm doing both right now) and doing my best to not engage trolls on weekends after drinking.

I do regret that you still haven't told me your issue with me, you seem a reasonable person who is exactly the sort of poster that exemplifies what this board should aspire to be.

I wish you well and regret that i have no idea why you do not do the same to me. If i had to hazard a guess it would be that you are a Korean or Japanese person who the DPRK has harmed and who misunderstands my interest in them, if so you are the first one who has done anything but scream insults and i thank you for that.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 11:36:40 PM No.63841947
>>63841030
>Ethiopia are friendly with them and are nominally allies
holy shit he is retarded
Replies: >>63842470
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 11:52:50 PM No.63842068
Big subs and carriers will be the Battleships-in-1939 of the next Big War (if it ever comes)

Drones, endless dronespam, that's what we're gonna see. (Well, not see).

Long-range solar-powered glider/sub drones to detect enemy ships and direct long-range ballistic missiles to its location. Drones being dropped like sea-mines below the surface, ready to be activated and chase ships on their own accord if they come close by. Swarms of tens of thousands of AI-controlled drones working in tandem to simply overwhelm whatever anti-air defense system there is aboard ships.
Replies: >>63842594
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 11:57:04 PM No.63842095
>>63840031 (OP)
>How dangerous could Chinese carriers be in a real war?
To Chinamen?
Likely very dangerous.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 11:59:27 PM No.63842112
And the Romans have never even had a navy! Carthage-bros I think we got this :)
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 11:59:30 PM No.63842114
>>63840031 (OP)
China is doing these to fight insurrections in countries they bankrolles, currently any country can take a loan from them, buimd a ton of shit and tell them to kick rocks.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 12:06:47 AM No.63842176
>>63840226
Realistically we can't say much good until they deploy a carrier group, park it off africa, and run ops.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 12:13:25 AM No.63842208
>>63840376
I bet she squirts like her pussy was a car wash.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 12:25:59 AM No.63842271
>>63840031 (OP)
Carriers are for throwing your dick around on the other side of the world but China has no need to do that; Taiwan, Worst Korea and Japan are all within spitting distance of the mainland and they've thoroughly wormed their way into the SCS.

China wants carriers just so they can say that they have carriers and to bully poorer countries if they think they can get away with it.
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 12:57:34 AM No.63842470
>>63841947
The DPRK and Ethiopia are allies, the DPRK supplies so many arms to Ethiopia that they are their major supplier of armor and Ethiopia's AKs are copies of Nork AKs made on Nork machinery. The USA has paid the DPRK to supply Ethiopia with arms in the past and escorted their ships.

Are you high or just stupid? Bush gave Ethiopia $100 million in gold bars so the US could circumvent the weapons embargo on the Horn of Africa as part of the war on terror.

We even had a incident where pirates tried to intercept a DPRK arms ship but the escorting US ship ended up saving the pirates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_Hong_Dan_incident
Replies: >>63842491 >>63842701
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 1:02:08 AM No.63842491
>>63842470
It is so annoying to have to quote news headlines from before /k/iddies were born:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/08/world/americas/08iht-arms.4.5191534.html
Replies: >>63842701
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:23:10 AM No.63842594
>>63842068
Sounds like fantasy if you ask me. Until it happens I don't believe you.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:29:23 AM No.63842620
>China thread on /k/
>Actual reasonable takes and not one mention of IMPLESSIVE
Did hell freeze over?
Replies: >>63842625
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:30:53 AM No.63842625
>>63842620
it's just not very implessive, you know
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:45:06 AM No.63842684
>>63840416
Even worse
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:49:26 AM No.63842701
>>63842470
>>63842491
Alright, here is your first mistake, don't link nytimes, use an archive: https://archive.is/dNtLr
Second, have you considered that what you think is a strength (it happened many years ago) might actually be a weakness when discussing what is the situtation in the current day?
Third, it is not surprising that the US would uphold the law of the sea even when it helps a nation they are at odds with.
Finally, here is a bunch of more recent events that show that a historical bond during the time of the Derg, that has since cooled. (This is just what came up easily with a search, I'm not saying this is the totality).
https://www.thereporterethiopia.com/329/
https://press.un.org/en/2017/sc12945.doc.htm
https://press.un.org/en/2017/sc12983.doc.htm

This is supposed to be your area of self-professed expertise and you're being a dick while demonstrably knowing nothing. I thought that other guy was being a bit of a pissant, but maybe he was onto something where you are too sure of yourself?
Replies: >>63842877
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:49:56 AM No.63842704
>>63840619
*psssssst* we can hear propellers with machines well enough, even a full electric sub wouldn't matter.
Replies: >>63842877
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 1:57:49 AM No.63842738
>>63840979
No, they actually HAVE to do a sizable Africa operation with some kind of carrier group and make it function. Not even win, just be able to use all the features almost as a drill but africans still die. Otherwise they're a joke. State guys call it at within 4 years.
Replies: >>63842763
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:07:00 AM No.63842763
>>63842738
>they actually HAVE to
Why?
Replies: >>63842917
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:34:57 AM No.63842859
>>63840835
No they can't beat the french on even ground. Brits.... I want to say no but really...
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 2:40:08 AM No.63842877
>>63842701
Wow, i had a issue getting the proper archive.org link. I couldn't find it so that obviously means you have solved this century's geo-politics forever.

>>63842704
This idiot thinks you can just cruise into Bohai bay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohai_Sea

Please get back to me when you know how to read a map that indicates sea depths and the joint PRC/DPRK territorial sea zones.
Replies: >>63842904 >>63842905
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:42:17 AM No.63842883
>>63840895
Yeah it's called like The Student's Gambit or something like that. Essentially you get the other person to do so much legwork they give up and you "win". People who do this are often called "sourcefag". I mean how could you refute my hour long youtube video if you didn't take notes on ALL of it?
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:47:13 AM No.63842904
>>63842877
>This idiot thinks you can just cruise into Bohai bay.
I said we can hear their subs.
>Please get back to me when you know how to read a map that indicates sea depths and the joint PRC/DPRK territorial sea zones.
I said we can hear their subs.
Replies: >>63843056
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:47:14 AM No.63842905
>>63842877
>Wow, i had a issue getting the proper archive.org link. I couldn't find it so that obviously means you have solved this century's geo-politics forever.
????
What?!
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:48:43 AM No.63842911
norkfag is extra unhinged today i see
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:50:09 AM No.63842917
>>63842763
To maintain their face internally among the military and also to keep the threat level with Taiwan or Spratley Islands or just dick waving. They have to at least show the tip at this point or they have no dick.
Replies: >>63842938
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:54:30 AM No.63842938
>>63842917
No, that is not true.
Replies: >>63842949 >>63843009
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:57:17 AM No.63842949
>>63842938
Search your feelings Luke. If they don't project a group and bomb niggers for robbing them, they will become equal to India as people.
Replies: >>63843009
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 3:12:52 AM No.63843009
>>63842949
>>63842938
Replies: >>63843018
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 3:16:11 AM No.63843018
>>63843009
Well then I'm cutting your fucking hand off. We're doing Colonialism 2, regional development and economic partners don't work. Client state is too close to civilization for them. China is doing it too or they go to the AAA baseball league.
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 3:28:45 AM No.63843056
At_the_West_Sea_Barrage_(11360482245)
At_the_West_Sea_Barrage_(11360482245)
md5: c5f8136905ec9da33859ec195a73b620🔍
>>63842904
I'm sure that if someone on a PRC/DPRK sub sneezes it will get picked up by a US/Rok/Japanese sub. That being said, the upper parts of the Yellow Sea are a no go zone if you aren't the PRC or DPRK.

Nampo is one of the most isolated and protected ports on earth.
Replies: >>63843086
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 3:35:11 AM No.63843086
>>63843056
For X hours into a conflict. Not really a lot of them, not even VERSUS GREAT SATAN. Jap/RoK is way enough of a problem. We might be tighter with Japan than Israel. Regional allies: LOL!
China has a crisis in quality, actual ops and people. To dig out of that, it's time to show some cock. That's if nothing trans oceanic projection with tempo to call it a good show. That would be a catalyst for carrier aviation, group tactics, so fucking much. and to NOT do that is a pure unmitigated disaster.
Replies: >>63843208
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 3:53:49 AM No.63843208
1749821857453249
1749821857453249
md5: 17276242e88840785b93b4d7d13bb0ba🔍
>>63843086
I think you are malfunctioning AI spam bot.
Replies: >>63843220
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 3:56:44 AM No.63843220
>>63843208
Cognitive dissonance. This is literally the option. They played out crying about Taiwan and they simply can't. They give. Time to fist other butts.
Replies: >>63843262
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 4:03:00 AM No.63843262
immachargedinMalaysia
immachargedinMalaysia
md5: 9786831e163b60ac84d6e9bbed40bf54🔍
>>63843220
Oh neat, another conversation with a AI.

I am close to understanding you if i can figure out your agenda and which nation you represent, who do you work for? Educate me.
Replies: >>63843280
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:05:46 AM No.63843280
>>63843262
You need help dude. I'm not even the only person to say that this thread.
Replies: >>63843313 >>63843389
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:11:41 AM No.63843313
>>63843280
He seems to think he is completely open and reasonable when in actuality he is delusionally attached to his positions.
Replies: >>63843328 >>63843389 >>63843389
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:14:36 AM No.63843328
>>63843313
He's gonna be fucked when I change his dental health records in his sleep, he won't notice for a while. I'm noting past addiction treatment so he gets NO painkillers. Fuck with AI tho, you gonna win.
Replies: >>63843389
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 4:23:32 AM No.63843389
1743292177863497
1743292177863497
md5: d5d1e5a30e14a59ab9cc9a7aaf7f39e5🔍
>>63843280
>>63843313
All i was doing was engaging what i believe is a AI spambot, what is the issue?

I see no reason to offend it, if i engage the thing in a positive manner it is likely to assist me.

>>63843328
>>63843313
Ya'll folx don't really know who ze are do you?*

*that was a pronoun joke btw, do i have to label everything like a kelly cartoon?
Replies: >>63843458
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:38:45 AM No.63843458
>>63843389
I wasn't talking to you. Not interested, fuck off.
Replies: >>63843483
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:39:29 AM No.63843462
1696918514600820
1696918514600820
md5: de8e171bf8eff677cf6234f5ed958d80🔍
>>63840031 (OP)
they will be irrelevant as horses in the next war.
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 4:44:06 AM No.63843483
1741799903468953
1741799903468953
md5: 046c089aa05abc2adb9640f1150f683f🔍
>>63843458
But yet you still respond to me, how curious.

https://www.youtube.com/@StudyJuche
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:45:38 AM No.63843488
>>63840031 (OP)
They'll be a giant liability. Part of the problem with operating your navy in such a small area is that they can be quickly saturated by strike bombers.
China's carriers aren't nuclear, and are reliant on diesel. In a war, America's going to cut off China's access to crude very quickly, and it's going to be a waiting game, and China's going to bleed out.
China's surface combatants are going to be mercilessly assaulted by JASSM-ER and LRASMs along with mass quantities of harpoons.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 4:49:58 AM No.63843500
>>63840416
Post SSN.
Replies: >>63843597
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 5:13:42 AM No.63843597
1725829997949183
1725829997949183
md5: f9dcb8515f8d9f0a25bb8abe12cf2964🔍
>>63843500
No
Replies: >>63843618 >>63843622
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 5:16:51 AM No.63843610
1635293934783
1635293934783
md5: 4d635f4c65507f8dd36d91d85318e799🔍
>China
>Aircraft carrier
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 5:17:59 AM No.63843618
>>63843597
>both passports issued last year
Why? Also, cut your hair
Replies: >>63843626
Norktard !5PczJ/8PMc
6/16/2025, 5:18:22 AM No.63843622
>>63843597
>Date of birth 1993

I'm arguing with children, i could be your grandfather.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 5:19:17 AM No.63843626
>>63843618
Because I was travelling and didn't want to enter that country with a US passport.