>bro stopping power don't real
>bro 9mm is goodnuff
>it's all you need bro

Will 9fags ever take the L

>Will 9fags ever take the L
No.
9faggotry is the mainstream bandwagon position.
When was the last time some popular retarded take went out of fashion without the assistance of influencers or some sanctioned statement from uncritically accepted authority.

>>63851314 (OP)
Cns incapacitation or blood loss are killing mechanics. If you dont hit the spine, brain, heart, or major arteries. This is caliber independent until you fire rifle rounds that can dismember or buckshot hits up close.

Tldr you need to hit some to kill.

Schizo arriving in 3, 2, 1...

>>63851507
…or major arteries the target will likely survive*

>>63851512
Read up on Kyle Odom bro

>>63851507
I think there's one count of a drugged up nog getting perforated by multiple .45 rounds and surviving (long enough to make it to the ER anyway)
Contrast with what is at this point hours of bodycam/security footage and eyewitness accounts of 9mm failing to stop with anything short of a total magdump

>>63851507
There are big arteries and veins everywhere in the lungs. A bullet that does more damage will hit more of them, make bigger holes in them, and create a larger cavity that presents less resistance to bleeding, resulting in more rapid blood loss.
Both dying and surviving from handgun caliber lung shots is very common. There is clearly a spectrum of effectiveness.
That’s before you get into facts like how many handgun calibers literally cannot completely destroy the heart or the associated great vessels with a single shot, and thus there is necessarily an escalating scale of damage.
>until you fire rifle rounds that can dismember
.223 50 gr TSX isn’t going to dismember you, certainly not out of an SBR. Doesn’t mean it does the same thing as a .22 LR.

>>63851546
There's a vast difference between a caliber that CAN stop and one that reliably WILL
9mm seems decisively in the former

>>63851554
I don’t want to downplay 9mm too much. It will reliably stop, as will anything, with enough shots. “Enough shots” tends to have more to do with ammo selection (and shot placement, that should be assumed from the start so I shouldn’t have to say it) than the differences between most handgun rounds…but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a meaningful difference also between the best loading of one handgun caliber, and the best loading of another.
I don’t have a problem with 9mm in general, or with people liking 9mm. It’s more about the ridiculous cope and the inability to accept that 9mn might have meaningful disadvantages as well as advantages compared to other calibers.

>children that don't own guns wank over ballistics during work hours on a weekday
Only informed takes will be had here

>>63851443
9faggotry became the standard because the krauts left stockpiles of it all over France and Belgium. This caused NATO to adopt it over 45 ACP, since it logistically made more sense to just standardize on a cartridge they got for free that is lighter and cheaper and cheaper to manufacture anyway. Keep in mind that European municipal police were commonly issued 32 ACP pistols at that time, so 9mm was seen as being perfectly acceptable for military use. By the end of WWII, sidearms were mainly just issued to officers as ornamental symbols of rank anyway. Having a high-capacity 9mm pistol such as a BHP made sense if you needed to defend yourself from enemies armed with bolt-action Mausers. The problem is that now we're stuck in an 80-year feedback loop where cops and civilians want to copy whatever GI Joe does. It's the same reason why 5.56 is the standard despite sucking. NATO was just really dumb and never put any thought into standardizing on good small arms cartridges.
>>63851507
>Cns incapacitation or blood loss are killing mechanics.
Yes and bigger bullets that penetrate deeper and make wider holes are better at achieving those two things.

>>63851314 (OP)
Should have used based .22lr, higher rate of one-shot stops than .44mag.

>>63851543
>Contrast with what is at this point hours of bodycam/security footage
So limpwristing faggots who can't aim and were trained to do exactly what you said, i.e. magdump?

>>63851604
how old are you and do you own any guns

>>63851577
Checked and truth. 9mm is the ultimate compromise. It basically sucks equally at everything but isn't spectacularly useless at any one thing

>>63851580
>what are phones
Mr. Shekelstein is calling, wagie. Go clean the toilets.

>>63851604
Based take for dumping on Eurofags and their .32 ACP fetish and sidearm inferiority. The fact that the BHP made it into service being that prone to hammer bite, with stock grips that fat, is pretty dumb.
Also the P38 is obscenely huge for a single stack 9mm, to say nothing of the terrible DA trigger or the poorly designed decocker system that literally turns your decocker into a trigger if you use it enough. They clearly didn’t make performance the highest priority when they adopted it.
That being said, 5.56 is great. Many loadings e.g. 77 gr TMK do absolutely devastating damage while simultaneously retaining all the capacity, recoil, and weight advantages that any other 5.56 has. Larger rifle calibers like .308 etc can do even more and have their own place, but tend to fall in an area where they’re overkill/less efficient at closer ranges.

9mm doesn’t really enjoy that kind of dynamic though because no service caliber handgun round is overkill, there is always plenty of room to improve terminally and thus little such thing as ‘wasted damage’, plus handgun engagement ranges being what they are, it’s easier to train to a standard where the differences in recoil tend to be less consequential on average. It still offers benefits worth considering, but so do other calibers.

>>63851314 (OP)
Wtf someone shot him after he already survived a shooting?

>>63851651
anon the person phoneposting is liable to be the one with the do-nothing office job...

>>63851651
Careful Timmy, mommy told you computer time doesn't start until 10 Central.

Obody will ever bring up the fact tjat this was the FIRST shooting and the victims were left dying shile the perp moved on to his next targets and he killed those immediately, AFTER engaging the cops and suppressing them effectively.

Also we always talk about calibers but not about how good first aid is getting at plugging peoples' holes and saving them. If them dying off is the only way to declare a gunfight "won" then we just need meme Rip rounds and hollowpoints.

>>63851604
Penetration is THE number one wounding factor in handgun rounds, the science is settled on this issue, it's not up for debate. Rounds will do fuck-all damage if they can't reach and damage/destroy vital organs, and/or major blood vessels.
And all practical handgun rounds operate at such low velocities that hydraulic shock is negligible.

The issue with .45ACP is that sucks at penetrating. Most .45APC loads operate pressures and velocities on par with 15th century wheel lock pistols.

There several recorded instances .45acp rounds hitting people center-mass and being stopped by the targeted individuals sternums, causing no serious injuries.

Running Bubba's Pissin' hot handloads isn't an option because it'll only lead to guns breaking prematurely, unless the cops are all running Mark 23s or revolvers.

If you truly care about "muh stoppan' powah" you need a round capable of both serious penetration and punching large holes.
At that point your minimum baseline is something like 10mm-Auto or .357Magnum.
Something in that same range of power is also the only real option, since expecting your average cop, who fires like 200 round a year in training, to effectively handle a .460S&W hand cannon is out of the question.

>>63851705
The best .45 ACP loadings have better performance through auto glass and bone as compared to their other service caliber counterparts.

>>63851314 (OP)
You already got btfo in your previous sad spam thread on this. We will enjoy your eternal impotent seething as objective 9mm superiority means it dominates your obsolete fudd rounds and min/max snowflake memes forever :^)

>>63851314 (OP)
>bro stopping power don't real
Was he stopped? Pretty sure he was. Mission accomplished. I'm pretty sure 9 to the head would seal the deal.

Chuds cant aim or shoot or fight. Not surprised

>>63851314 (OP)
>he expects an evangelical trump supporter to be able to accurately aim and shoot a handgun
Not even 9mm's inherent superiority can help with that level of stupid OP.

>>63851753
>>63851766
As opposed to what?

>>63851753
>>63851766
Very organic

>>63851543
>Contrast with what is at this point hours of bodycam/security footage and eyewitness accounts of 9mm failing to stop with anything short of a total magdump
Gee, I wonder why there's lots of footage of 9mm not performing well. It's almost like it's the most popular handgun cartridge on the planet or something. Next you'll tell me .44 Henry is the most lethal cartridge on the planet, after all there's no footage of it failing to drop someone.

>>63851604
>Keep in mind that European municipal police were commonly issued 32 ACP pistols at that time, so 9mm was seen as being perfectly acceptable for military use.
European police didn't have to put down rampaging negroes

>>63851780
>unpopular chud president is unpopular
Surprise surprise

>>63851791
But unironically, euro criminals just go down way faster for some reason. You see them get shot in the calf or arm and they act like they just suffered total cardiac arrest.

Presumably they’re more heavily influenced by the idea that they’re supposed to drop if shot even when perfectly capable of sustaining the attack.

>>63851543
There are accounts of drugged up nogs taking multiple 12 gauge slug hits to the torso, and keeping on keeping on.

>>63851803
>nogunz immediately derailing
not big surprise

>>63851831
proof?

>>63851314 (OP)
I just like it bros
This paired with an old Colt AR-15A2/A3

>>63851836
Bold assumption. While I'm for the HPA and Short in the BBB, literally everything else out of his presidency has been a disaster for this country. Fuck off chudly.

>>63851836
>noooooo hasguns are "derailing" my shitty troll thread I keep spamming nooooooooooooo
yeah

>>63851705
>The issue with .45ACP is that sucks at penetrating. Most .45APC loads operate pressures and velocities on par with 15th century wheel lock pistols.
>There several recorded instances .45acp rounds hitting people center-mass and being stopped by the targeted individuals sternums, causing no serious injuries.
All this proves is that ammo selection matters more than caliber itself. I don't think anyone is denying that. I'd still rather carry 45 than 9mm, all things being equal, because I concur with >>63851728 anon.
>>63851791
This. The arms race of handgun cartridges in the 20th Century was almost entirely precipitated by the perceived need to dispatch drugged-up giganiggas.

>>63851848
>>63851849
>still no gun
yeah, nobody cares
go complain on reddit, faggots

>>63851856
>admits his thread is trolling spam
>no gun posted
>muh reddit boogieman
lol tourist

>>63851896
>make shit up
>no u
LOL
get a job
your bait isn't even high effort

>>63851906
No no, get yourself a job other than shilling nogunz. Trump's an embarassment and his cabinet are traitors.

>>63851850
Federal’s data sheet on HST is actually like over 15 years old and they’ve never bothered to update it for some reason, this data is more relevant:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7205-New-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Tests&p=122604&viewfull=1#post122604

.45 HST beats out 9mm and .40 S&W HST on both recovered diameter and penetration through auto glass. In fairness 147 gr HST was later revised for more consistent auto glass penetration, but it also ate an expansion penalty in the process.

The Critical Duty data is outdated but the relationships between the calibers are still similar, so 9mm CD does slightly outpenetrate .45 CD there, but .45 CD is still considerably wider and by no means penetrates shallowly. In Gold Dot G2 the .45 loading again both outpenetrates and outexpands its 9mm and .40 S&W counterparts. I wouldn’t use either brand of JHP over HST though.

.45 also appears to enjoy a reduced degree of deflection through windshields, granted this hasn’t been tested for with these loadings specifically but it’s a general trend with big heavy rounds and has been observed in an older test involving .40 S&W and .45 ACP.

>>63851847
Were steam trains scary grandpa?

>>63851906
>get a job
>your bait isn't even high effort
"Every accusation is a confession". Amazing how true that has proved with migas over and over again.

>>63851850
>All this proves is that ammo selection matters more than caliber itself. I don't think anyone is denying that. I'd still rather carry 45 than 9mm, all things being equal,
If you're fine with carrying +P+ .45APC, you might as well step up to full power 10mm.
Similar felt recoil, same or better effect on target, and it's hard to say no to a couple rounds of extra mag capacity.

>>63852044
It’s just normal +P ACP.

230 gr HST +P has an advantage in expansion compared to basically every 10mm loading I can think of, the only 10mm loadings that get similarly big either penetrate much less, or experience a large degree of petal foldback that may reduce effective diameter in practice (and also tend to perform quite inconsistently across the bare gel-4LD spectrum).

All the 10mm loadings that penetrate noticeably more, also expand noticeably less.

FWIW, while 10mm Critical Duty slightly outperforms .45 Critical Duty in auto glass testing, it performs worse or no better in every other gel test, including the ones involving barriers.

>>63851664
It's funny because retired boomers and zoomer crypto millionaires are the ones least likely to be working at these hours
>>63851677
When you slip and fall you'll wish you had treated your kids better

>>63851737
Anything that hits a politician 17 times and doesn't kill them is useless
>>63851824
Euros are sissy girlymen news at 11

>>63852079
This is not directly related to this conversation, just something to keep in mind.
Performance figures derived form gel testing only provides an overview of how one load performs in relation to another load tested under identical test conditions.
It does not provide any evidence for how each of these load performs against flesh and bone.
Performance figures for factors such as expansion, penetration, and retained weight, tend to differ significantly when identical loads are tested against gel and real tissues respectively.

>63851753
>63851766
>63851803
>WHATABOUT LE BLUMFPF
i hate summer i hate tourists i hate reddit

>>63851651
You phonepost... as a NEET?

>>63852139
You really had to dig to get your lil chud fee fees hurt there, huh

>>63851803
Hes at like 50-70% approval depending on the demographic, yes immigrants love him the most.

>>63852128
>https://abcnews.go.com/US/john-hoffman-yvette-statement-minnesota-shooting/story?id=122884878
husband shot 9 times, wife 8. no word on where on the body, but it sounds like they were running/moving at the time, so I doubt all good center mass hits. also no word on round used
still, will 9fags ever recover?

>>63852153
Did... did the us shill farms get diverted to shilling for trump's political career?

>>63852177
One of them barely missed the heart, so probably a lung shot.

>>63852185
Why are you brown?

>>63852185
>No the legal migrants that paid 20 grand to bring their grandma over legally would never be satisfied by the people that jumped the line getting deported, it must be shills!

>>63852393
Did you ever think your glowie career would end with shilling a new york scheister pedo?

>>63852414
Why are you brown?

>>63851314 (OP)
The mafia have long shown how you are supposed to assassinate someone

>>63851314 (OP)
>There is no need for draw weights above 80 lbs unless it is meant to satisfy your fragile ego
>Modern microblade inset antler points perform just as well at lower draw weights with superior aerodynamics
>I would rather notch a new arrow every three quarters of a second than be spent after firing two

>>63852418
Did your coworkers get doged for not shilling the party line? Do you have to kiss a boot at the start of your shift?

>>63851803
Popular vote, libtard

>63852185
>63852151
>63851803
>63851766
>63851753
You have to go back, predditor.

>>63852461
Post hands and guns.

>>63852464
Rigged

>>63853154
Feel free to start saar

>>63851314 (OP)
How many people do you think are killed by 9mm a day? It's good enough.

>9mm sucks

Didn't they get shot through a door? I think it did ok

>>63851314 (OP)
>trying to get 9mmlets to understand that which cannot be understood through transferrance of words
Just let then live in their LITTLE world feeling confident in their pistol

>>63853513
>n-n-no u
As expected.

>>63853499
Question the results of the election is literally treason, sweaty.

>>63851803
trump won the popular vote and would have won the popular vote and all 50 states if every state had voter ID
>>63851753
the shooter was a democrat

>>63855502
Democrats dont register as republican and vote for trump

>>63855551
source? where is the evidence he voted for trump? he was a walz appointed democrat and he shot the lady for not giving taxpayer funded healthcare to illegals

>>63855571
His best friend is the source. Where is the evidence he is left leaning in any way

>>63855623
gunna post times of india and hidustan times links again?
the evidence that he is a lib is that tampon tim appointed him, he failed to kill a guy with like 17 shots, he shot a dog, he had no more kangz stickers and he specifically went after the only 2 dems to vote against giving illegals taxpayer funded health care

>>63855637
Who do you even think your fooling besides other chuds

>>63855701
why are you on this board when you don't own guns, you aren't American and you want gun bans?
the shooter was a dem

https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-shootings-lawmakers-suspect-21b2165404bc66f77dd5e0e36efeb065
Was that so hard?

>Friends and former colleagues interviewed by AP described Boelter as a devout Christian who attended an evangelical church and went to campaign rallies for President Donald Trump. Records show Boelter registered to vote as a Republican while living in Oklahoma in 2004 before moving to Minnesota where voters don’t list party affiliation.

>“The churches are so messed up, they don’t know abortion is wrong in many churches,” he said, according to an online recording of one sermon from February 2023. Still, in three lengthy sermons reviewed by the AP, he only mentioned abortion once, focusing more on his love of God and what he saw as the moral decay in his native country.

>Records show Boelter and his wife started a security firm in 2018. A website for Praetorian Guard Security Services lists Boelter’s wife as the president and CEO while he is listed as the director of security patrols. The company’s homepage says it provides armed security for property and events and features a photo of an SUV painted in a two-tone black and silver pattern similar to a police vehicle, with a light bar across the roof and “Praetorian” painted across the doors. Another photo shows a man in black tactical gear with a military-style helmet and a ballistic vest with the company’s name across the front.

>>63855767
I bet I have better guns than you

>>63851314 (OP)
I wish 10mm took off more, shame 40s&w has declined so much. Multiple calibers are good and have their uses. 9mm is more than fine

>>63855795
where does that say he voted for trump? he might have registered to vote against trump in the primary since he was a democrat who worked for know communist bejing tim
>>63855800
I bet you have no gunz and you aren't American and you have no dick

>>63855823
Where is the evidence he voted for either side? It's obvious by his targets, kill list, and values whose side he was on.

>>63855823
I think you are projecting, you have no guns and are a foreign chud

>>63855842
nope, American, white and own guns
>>63855840
he was appointed by known anti gun American hating communist tampon tim and he specifically went after the 2 dems who didn't vote to give illegals taxpayer funded healthcare

>>63851314 (OP)
32 is statistically confirmed to be only marginally more effective than 32 and 380.
High capacity of bigger 9mm is their only saving grace. You’re better off just sticking to tiny 380/32 and 45 and 44

>>63851507
>Tldr you need to hit some to kill.
This, pic related still hasn't been beaten

>>63855857
In America, especially purple states like Minnesota, officials have a history of appointing people regardless of political affiliation. That he had a whole list of people he intended to kill also ruins your second point. Who he actually killed is incidental. He would've killed more if not caught by the police. I'm out, logic is foreign to you, etc.

>>63855888
tampon tim isn't purple, he is a deep blue communist who works as an agent of the CCP. he hates Americans and wants every American dead or in chains. that list was a false flag. the shooter was a communist agent sent by tampon tim to remove the 2 dems keeping them from giving taxpayer money to illegals

>>63855861

>>63851512
Crummy sama! Big C san! Please come to this thread and share your wisdom! I know nu /k/ has been mean to you and /o/ is super comfy but please guide us through this dark caliber debate for once and for all!

>>63855823
>>63855857
>>63855906
He had trans derangement syndrome and literally loved African ‘stone the gays’ values

>>63855966
all troons are child molesters and they should be sent to gitmo. the majority of Americans hate troons. 79% of Americans are against troons playing sports and 76% of Americans are against the troonification of minors

>>63855981
Okay African. You Africanized like the loony shooter.

>>63855906
>>63855906

>>63855888
>>63855888
>>63855888

Minnesota hasn't been purple in some time, especially someone as radical as Walz.

>>63856001
this. it's where the fentanyl floyd riots started
>>63855998
no one likes trannies, you freak. bud light is still down 30% in terms of sales vs before they gave that troon a beer

>>63856026
Tesla sales are down 60% because people think the head is a freakshow. Your logic says America (and Europe) are now woke.

>>63856106
no, tesla sales are down because musk loves indians and most people hate h1bs

>>63851314 (OP)
or just learn to aim

>>63851554
>seems
Because you feel that way and are arguing like a woman

>>63851604
> Having a high-capacity 9mm pistol such as a BHP made sense if you needed to defend yourself from enemies armed with bolt-action Mausers.
As opposed to what now? Nogs also armed with high capacity pistols? Yeah I’ll take my chances fighting those over white men with rifles. Even bolt action ones.

Post your carry gun. Bet you won’t.

>>63851314 (OP)
I’m 22 and don’t plan on carrying a 9mm. If I’m carrying a full size it’ll be my 1911.

>>63851705
> There several recorded instances .45acp rounds hitting people center-mass and being stopped by the targeted individuals sternums, causing no serious injuries.
Post two

>>63851962
> .45 also appears to enjoy a reduced degree of deflection through windshields
You explain why right after. It’s heavier and doesn’t deflect as easily.

>>63855551
>>63855623
>evidence
He was appointed by tampon Tim. Obviously they are in the same party.

>>63855888
South Canada hasn’t been purple for a generation. Walz is barely to the right of Marx. He’s not appointing a republican to any position.

But if you’re correct I’m sure you could prove there’s a history of that happening in the last 30 years.

>>63855966
Based

>>63856106
Tesla sales are down because Biden’s EV credits expired. When EVs are massively subsidized most people don’t want them

>>63857657
>conflating military sidearms with civilian CCW
classic 9fag

>>63851546
>A bullet that does more damage will hit more of them, make bigger holes in them, and create a larger cavity that presents less resistance to bleeding, resulting in more rapid blood loss.
Is this factor significantly or meaningfully increased with a bullet that has 2.43mm larger diameter traveling at a slower speed with nearly the same kinetic energy

>>63857815
>traveling at a slower speed
Largely irrelevant (and also not necessarily true universally, and frequently untrue dynamically)
>with nearly the same kinetic energy
Not relevant. For the most part, service caliber handgun rounds crush bullet sized holes in flexible tissues regardless of kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is a poor predictor of wounding capability, I don’t even bother to look at it most of the time.

>Is this factor significantly or meaningfully increased with a bullet that has 2.43mm larger diameter
In absolute terms, the difference in diameter between a .45 FMJ and a 9mm FMJ is about the same as the difference between a 9mm FMJ and a .25 ACP FMJ, so idk, you tell me.

In relative terms, it’s a 61.4% increase in frontal area. Poiseulle’s law would suggest that fluid flow ought to increase with the square of the % increase in cross sectional area, and while this rule is very difficult to apply to the human body in any kind of clean fashion, it provides some grounds for substance.

In JHP form, the best .45 hollowpoints expand to about 0.79” average diameter versus 0.59” diameter for the best 9mm hollowpoints. In absolute terms, ask yourself whether there is a difference between a 9mm FMJ, and a 9mm JHP that expands to 0.55”. If you don’t think so, then bear in mind that the FBI’s 147 gr Gold Dot G2 only expands to ~0.49”, and +P 135 gr Critical Duty only expands to ~0.53”, so by that logic, the FBI’s JHPs don’t provide a meaningful terminal improvement over FMJ. In relative terms, the % increase in diameter is similar to Gold Dot G2 compared to FMJ - so again, if you don’t think that makes a real difference, then neither should there be one between 9mm Gold Dot G2 and FMJ.

>>63855926
Nignogs spray'n'praying probably skew these results a fair bit but point taken

>>63857657
Even the drunken, poor, illiterate Eruo peasant conscripts who were more likely to desert or defect than return fire shot better than Ja'Quavious who's slamming the trigger with one hand as he grabs his nutsack with the other. I'd far rather have 7-10 manstoppers than 18-20 annoying pellets.

>>63857665
Based zoomerboomer

>>63857790
They’re down 80% in Europe. Also other EV are growing in America despite the tax buck expiration. That’s why Tesla is now the number 8 EV in Europe and barely no 1 in America.

Loss of most of their car market is fatal.that’s why he’s coping and saying nobody will buy cars soon and so taxis are what matter

>>63858193
he shouldn't have made the pro h1b comments

>>63858457
Is worst choice was throwing his lot in with trump and then going full retard. He burnt a bridge with one half of america and then burnt a bridge with the other while burning a bridge with the entire world. Wild shit. Might buy a used tesla but fucked if i'd buy new.

>>63858193
>>63858457
Elon is toast because he basically sold the noose that is going to hang Tesla to the Chinese
>wants cheap parts, batteries
>Chinese aren't retarded (when it comes to Le Happy Merchant, Chinese make semitic people look like bewildered rural rubes)
>they insist that he share all his battery/automation technology
>Tesla gets an enormous decade-long edge in the EV market
>Chinese learn and adapt
>overtake Tesla
>Tesla is now seen as a "dinosaur" brand in China:
>don't go as far, as fast, fewer features, yet more expensive
The Chinese EV market today is basically a free marketeer's wet dream: cutthroat competition, prices plummeting for consumers, dozens of brands to choose from, constant innovation.

Elon is a fucking retard who
A) can't win in China: Chinese EV market will keep eating Tesla's market share until he can't keep the lights on
B) can't win in Europe: they hate him AND they get cheap Chinese EVs flooding the market
C) can't win in the US: he burned every bridge with his only favorable demographic, leftards and environment-types. Rednecks DO NOT BUY EVs, THEY ROLL COAL LIKE CHADS and buy American
>t. Ford man

He's going to stay in the top echelon of billionaires because of SpaceX, but Tesla isn't even going to be around in 20 years. Dude needs to lay off the ketamine and stop being an autistic retard.
NEVER show your powerlevel, NEVER put chudding ahead of power, and never trust the Chinese not to fuck you over in the long-term. There is a reason every single one of their neighbors despises them.

>>63858473
>used tesla
have fun with that dead battery
>>63858508
the chinaman government currency manipulates and props up their companies

>>63858457
>he shouldn't have made the pro h1b comments
That's just the tip of the iceberg
If Elon crashing and burning isn't the greatest anti-drug in the history of mankind, IDK wtf is. He went from hosting SNL to even his most loyal supporters disgusted with him.
He literally made an AI tool that contradicts everything he says on a platform he owns. What a little BITCH lmao

>>63858508
There's also the fact that Teslas are such an absolute fuck to service that the company can barely keep them on the road. Or at least it was like that for a while. A family friend of ours got a Tesla and after less than a decade they had to get the battery bank completely replaced, which put the car out of commission for months as they waited for it to be serviced. IIRC it was heinously expensive as well.

>>63858520
>the chinaman government currency manipulates and props up their companies
I hate PRC and hope they all kill each other, but the EV market is the one thing we should be jealous of. They are completely ahead of us, and I am talking about the cars themselves, not meaningless state propaganda numbers or sales.
They're safe enough for Europe and US, they're cheaper, and on a feature-by-feature basis they're usually better. Their newest battery technology is impressive also.
I blame fucking retards like Elon (who is South African and doesn't get a fuck about the US or its citizens) trying to make a quick buck in the short-term while letting them get stronger and fuck us in the long-term. China would still be shitting in the fields and 90% agricultural if we hadn't made them everything they are today.
Every time a Chinese missile threatens us remember who made this possible.

>>63858546
>and after less than a decade they had to get the battery bank completely replaced,
that happens to all electric cars and is one of the many reasons why electric cars are complete and utter garbage to go with refueling speeds, range and the fact the government can track you and turn off your car

>>63858554
see>>63858555
EVs are fucking ass and I wouldn't buy one

>>63857807
>doesn’t post gun after post complete tardation
Classic noguns

I didn’t know the human body react different if it was hit by a military issued sidearm of a civilian CCW in the same caliber. Neat theory you have.

>>63858193
EVs aren’t growing in America. But even still I don’t care if Tesla burns for whatever reason. Until we have a massive leap in battery technology they aren’t feasible as replacements for normal ICE.
>>63858457
This killed him. His recent feud with Trump killed the last small market of supporters he had.

Can we get back on topic?
Anyways, at what point does your screencapped article mention the caliber of the bullets used to shoot the lawmakers?
Or are you just baiting with a provocative picture and text?

>>63859277
Guns used by the military and police are meant for the lowest common denominator. Civilians are put under more scrutiny when they shoot someone. Most civilian shootings are resolved with two or fewer shots fired. Unless you anticipate fighting off human waves of charging Zulus, what purpose does having 17 rounds of 9mm in your magazine practically serve? More ammo is always a good thing, but there's also such a thing as diminishing returns. Your first shot is always your most important one, so I'd rather make it a good one while still having plenty of rounds on tap than having less effective ammo with more rounds than I'd ever realistically need.

>>63859457
>still doesn’t post a gun
Called it

>>63857790
city dwellers and other no life people who go to work and home are buying new EVs, theyre similarly priced to the average gas car and Tesla has steep discounts now that no one is buying them

>>63851314 (OP)
>bro stopping power don't real
it isnt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kUvi72s0Y
the anti abortion retard has bad aim and is too lazy to use a rifle or shotgun

>>63852020
>>63851938
>>63851906
post one (1) firearm

>>63855800
shame you won't post a single one... you do own one right?

>>63859441
WP and the source (USA Today) report it's a 9mm Beretta

>>63851604
>5.56 is the standard despite sucking.
Forcedmetopostthisagainaward.jp

>>63851314 (OP)
No substitute for shot placement

>>63865809
>9

>>63851831
PCP is a Hell of a drug.

>>63851842
Happened almost weekly in the 1980s when PCP was the street drug of choice.

>>63853526
There was that one Atlanta coroner who tracked what killed the most people in Atlanta over a couple of decades and most of the corpses were from .32 caliber handguns.

>>63855810
>shame 40s&w has declined so much.
FBI DEI hires couldn't handle the recoil, so they switched back to 9mm. And the rest of law enforcement followed suit.

>>63855926
This seriously has me considering either a .32 acp pistol or a .32 Magnum revolver.

>>63865790
Impressive, very nice

Lets see 308 wounds

>>63866004
An ER won't have any documentation on those. You'll have to visit a morgue for 'em.

>>63865790
>cherrypicked through bones vs. through flesh
>that means 223 is better
kek, 223cucks will never not be funny

>>63851314 (OP)

>>63857790
Is that why Chink EVs are skyrocketing?

>>63866480
uhhhh
https://insideevs.com/news/672926/china-abandoned-electric-car-graveyard-byd-geely/

>>63861966
>>63861973
xe can't because xe is a yuro

>>63865790
Projectile matters more than caliber. 77gr OTM is good, but other 5.56 loadings are shit- especially 62gr green tip. 55gr M193 doesn't maintain enough momentum out of shorter barrels that are popular now.

>>63865790
>>63867292
Just for good measure, pic related is a 7.62x39 124gr softpoint exit wound.
>>63866310
He's just doing the typical ARbabby thing where they claim gucci 77gr Black Hills is representative of 5.56 while the absolute cheapest bottom of the barrel commercial Tulammo or WW2-era M43 is representative of 7.62x39.

I've killed a lot of animals with 9mm, .45, and 10mm. Largely speaking, all popular handgun calibers do the same thing. The only difference between 9mm and .45 was a slightly larger hole in the animal. Same penetration depth. Same wound more or less. 10mm is noticeably stronger. At the end of the day, pistol calibers are adequate. It's built to be easy to carry and effective "enough." It's not gonna have the same energy as a rifle. Just carry whatever you shoot best and call it a day. Central nervous shots are the only way to guarantee a true stop.

>>63865790
>mark rippetoe tools a 7.62x39 through the neck
He wasn’t doing the program

I hope you all die from a .17 hmr gutshot while reeing that it doesn't count because it's not big enough.

>>63868270
"most pistol calibers do the same thing" comes with caveats and it's not an excuse to carry weaker ammo.
I wouldn't run .22 or .25 auto, not even .380 because of how unreliable it is in expansion. 9mm hits a sweet spot with all its disadvantages, .40 has a special place in my heart and 10mm is optimal for dropping anything on two feet.

>>63869098
T. got told his wasn't "big enough"

>>63851314 (OP)
Oh look it's this thread again.

>>63855906
>tampon tim isn't purple, he is a deep blue communist who works as an agent of the CCP. he hates Americans and wants every American dead or in chains
Yeah, you sound credible.

>>63869330
More credible than
>Tim Walz hired a Trump supporter

>>63869271
Thanks for that. 10mm is definitely the best choice from a paper standpoint, but 9mm is 75% of the way there and much easier to carry. It's personally what I carry and recommend, unless they are a person who HAS to have a smaller handgun and caliber due to physical limitations. Then it's .380 as a next best option TAPTH

>>63855906
Go back to /pol/, brownoid. We've had this thread of yours already.

>>63851314 (OP)
Concerning autoloading ammo, for reliable performance assuming good shot placement;
>minimum cartridge for ideal target presentation
380acp 90gr
>minimum cartridge for typical target presentation
9mm 124gr
>minimum cartridge for adverse/occluded target presentation
40s&w 180gr

Not saying lesser calibers won't sometimes get the same results under the same circumstances as greater ones, just that under ~2200fps impact velocity there's no replacement for displacement.

Bones, autoglass, wood, metal etc. all have mass, they all exert that mass against projectiles impacting them, as the projectile displaces hard barriers, the barriers displace the projectile, how much they displace a projectile is dependant on how much it weighs.

9mm sucks. We all know it sucks. Its a bare minimum caliber. And when you are not really good, bare minimum isn't enough.

>>63851729
>"obsolete fudd round"
>uses a shit mouse caliber first invented in 1909

>>63869286
Maybe it'd stop getting posted if 9mm didn't suck

>>63851314 (OP)
Should have put one in his head.

>shooter now openly says he was working with Walz
>story vanishes
Noguns trannies continue to seethe
This post will be removed and I'll just be back in 72h anyway checkem

>>63869572
>>63869330
the shooter admitted to working for tampon tim and said tampon tim wanted him to assassinate klonashar. you brown bong tranny