The Lehigh Xtreme defense design has been proven in countless tests for years to be superior to hollowpoints in every way. Even Paul Harrell said they worked. Who are waiting on to notice these before they start becoming standard? Law enforcement?

>>63892266 (OP)
I like these, but they're expensive, hard to find, and not exactly a quantum leap over Gold Dots. There's your answer.

>>63892266 (OP)
>proven in gel tests
Lets see effects on actual people, issue a few police stations in particularly melanated neighborhoods with them and lets check back in a few years

>>63892299
>Lets see effects on actual people
starting with you

>>63892330
Take yer swing

>>63892266 (OP)
I brought them to Alaska for fishing in bear country.

i just use 50gr sim-x rounds since they have the added benefit of weighing less.

Don't they have slightly too much penetration for comfort once you go to 9mm and up?

I keep meaning to pick up some of the 135gn .429 hollow base penetrators… I want to try loading them in 444 marlin… have a 14 inch single shot lone eagle and I think I can get them going above 3000 fps…

>>63892437
Oh, I think I remember you. Shouldn't have a problem stabilizing these bullets.

>>63892291
/thread

>>63892395
They have a LOT more penetration yes, and do not produce wound cavities anywhere near as big as high quality HP.

>>63892486
That's what I recall. Penetration is good, but cavitation isn't as good.
People talked a lot about the XPs being a better choice for .380 Auto than HPs.

>>63892370
That was a dumb decision since they have poor penetration when compared to flat-nose hardcast lead.

Ask Bridger Petrini what effect ammo designed to dump it's energy into a human torso has on big bears.

>>63892330
Post guns tranny tourist

>>63892266 (OP)
Too niche, not enough agency adoption to gain popularity. Youtube advertising isn't enough.

And has already been demonstrated in this thread, a lot of people still only know of the xtreme penetrator.

>>63892454
lol yup. And I don’t have to worry about ripping jackets off at high velocity since they’re solid.

>>63892266 (OP)
>fluid transfer monolithic
>ftm
Kek

People can barely afford groceries, let alone shoot the guns they have, let alone buy guns, so why do you think they're going to pay a 300% premium for screwdriver bullets?

>>63892266 (OP)
>proven
They look really good in gel but this is a reach. I think they are good for cartridges that don't have the power to fully expand like .380 or the heavier .45 hollow points. They are very consistent. Would be good in short barrel micro 9mms too imo.

>>63892640
>tranny
conditioned

>>63892330

>>63892266 (OP)
Because they're still niche enough they can get you in trouble. If you live in a blue shithole the prosecution is very likely to bring up that you "went out of your way to buy these exotic extra lethal rounds just so you could more likely kill the poor people of the sacred hue".

>>63892596
>Ask Bridger Petrini what effect ammo designed to dump it's energy into a human torso has on big bears

It... kills them dead?
He shot the bear as he was already being mauled. The ammo had nothing to do with the bear's jaw being locked onto his leg.
I don't even like lememe bullets but you're being retarded.
>muh energy dump

>>63892744
This has never, ever resulted in anyone getting a sentence for a good shoot but you retarded spiritually fudd niggers still keep bringing it up.

>>63892744
Hello Mr Ayoob nice to see you here

>>63892370
Why shoot fish, at all?

>>63892896
Alaskan fish can get real mean.

>>63892896
How else do you get them out of your barrel? It’s the easiest way!

>>63892754
>>muh energy dump
Energy dumping bleeds speed and LIMITS PENETRATION you fucking moron.

Despite being called "xtreme penetrators", they're still just light-for-caliber solid copper projectiles, and their geometry doesn't create a simple crush cavity like flatnose and FMJs, it generates a lot of fluid displacement, imparting it's energy outward by accelerating material sharply to the side. They penetrate on-par with hollowpoints, some companies who make them refer to them as "external hollowpoints".

>He shot the bear as he was already being mauled.
No, he doesn't remember shooting the bear as it approached, but his family found shell casings at the original scene. Unless he threw himself down the hill, he took shots before the bear contacted him.

He almost emptied his gun with it having no effect until he brained it. It had no effect because it didn't have the penetration necessary to reach vitals. It didn't have the penetration necessary because Hornady RECYCLED their already-fragile .40 175gr into their 10mm, then down-loaded that stuff to prevent the weak bullets from just exploding within the first 5-6 inches.

Soft expanding bullets, loaded weak, in a half-full magazine because the carrier thought spring-setting was real, and Hornady; a comedy of errors, you can't write this shit.

>>63892291
i hate speer gold dots because it's the only the only time shooting where i had a dud that wasn't blackpowder or .22lr.

>>63892266 (OP)
They are the equivalent of getting stabbed with a screwdriver.

They’re a meme because if you watch slow motion video of one of those reverse-ogive/scalloped rounds hitting gel, you’ll see they only work as advertised for a couple inches then tumble anyways and behave like normal FMJs.. They would only not be a meme if their sectional density was so high that the bullet could remain oriented in its direction of flight for a longer distance through tissue, and if it could retain its velocity to continue fucking up said tissue. A velocity-dependent wounding mechanism like OP’s picrel is gonna stop working almost instantly after it hits tissue.

Well, Atleast that’s what I’ve gathered from watching slow motion footage. Also, the BC’s fucking suck so I hope nobody intends to stick this in like a TP9 and shoot at 200yds with it.

>>63892809
To be fair, I think he has a point. They grilled Kyle rittenhouse for his use of, I don’t remember, expanding or fragmenting bullets, claiming they are designed to explode inside the body. I think it is a good rule of thumb to use whatever the local cops carry. Cops are doubtless carrying JHPs, and nobody can give you the rittenhouse treatment cause you can just point to all the cops and say “they do it too”

>>63892767
But what if the goodness of the shoot is the subject of controversy, because like anon said, you shot a guy of the sacred hue. What if you find yourself amidst some riot and the shooting becomes politically charged and picked apart with a fine tooth comb? Still, the “exploding hollow point” thing didn’t work on Kyle, but it is one source of ammunition a prosecutor has.

>>63892266 (OP)
Real sheepdogs know R.I.P rounds is where its at. Those little petals coming off will turn you're insides to mush.

>>63892266 (OP)
They're my load of choice whenever I go into the parts of town where gangs of vicious gelatin blocks tend to hang out.

>>63892754
>>muh energy dump
??? Are you arguing hollowpoints aren't designed to dump their energy?
I really don't give a shit if boomer fudds have trained you to have a Pavlovian disgust response to the idea of "energy transfer", but that is literally what is happening. An energetic object is impacting upon a stationary one and shedding it's energy in the process, how fast it does this depends on bullet design.
If you shoot at a charging brown bear and miss the brain, there can be over 40 inches of tissue between where your bullet impacts, and the vitals. If you use ammo designed to come to a stop within 18 inches, you are relying entirely upon pain compliance. Wild animals are really, really accustomed to pain, they live with it constantly, especially old animals, especially old predators. If you rely upon pain compliance to ward off an aggressive bear, or moose, or bull elk etc. you are suicidal.
Do not carry anti-people ammo for defense against animals much larger than people, retard. This should be common fucking sense, not sure why you need this explained.

>>63892266 (OP)
They sound appealing for weaker cartridges like .32 ACP or .380, but what's the advantage over a typical hard cast?

>>63892266 (OP)
I really want some for my .380 but the lehigh have feed issues with bodyguard 2.0 and I have never seen the G9s in stock

>>63894276
Larger wound cavity

>>63894132
“Gangs of vicious gelatin blocks could be here”, he thought. “I hate gangs of vicious gelatin blocks!”

I've played around with the 120gr XD in 357 B&D.
They were just a little above 2000fps in a 7.5" barrel, I could have probably done more with a little more pressure and slightly faster power.
I have done effectively zero shooting this year beyond dispatching a raccoon that had distemper. So no load development, maybe by September I'll start cooking something up in preparation for deer season.

>>63892767
Unless you were lucky enough to get the entire incident on camera it’s going to be your word vs the prosecutor and maybe even the cops on whether it was a good shoot or not. Obviously you’re a little naïve about what goes on in the legal system so I’ll spell it out for you. If they decide to prosecute, every decision you ever made is going to be used by people much smarter and much craftier than you to fashion your noose. If you went out of your way to do something that makes you look bloodthirsty they’re going to run circles around your ragged ass with it.

If the game is already rigged against you, what kind of fucking retard do you have to be to give your opponent extra cards to play?

>>63892744
>>63895342
>Be american
>Exercise right to self defense
>Get sent off to prison for using the wrong bullets
I never want to hear you laugh at europeans again.

>>63895650
>>Get sent off to prison for using the wrong bullets
Show me a case of it happening.

>>63894243
Hollowpoints are not designed to dump energy. Hollowpoints are designed to use the impact resistance (energy transfer if you want) to open the bullet to a larger diameter than it originally was and create a larger diameter permanent wound channel. That energy transfer is used to LIMIT or counter the momentum to prevent a pass through. This is because law enforcement and other people do not want a pass through.
The energy levels of the common pistol bullets are half that and less than the common 200lb man's punch. There simply is not enough energy even if the transfer was complete on contact to surpass the stretch capacity of human tissues. These bullets are a fraud. They are advertised using gallon jugs of water and ballistics gel. Neither of behave like the plethora of different tissues combined in the human body. I have even see old steaks used to advertise these bullets in paid for "articles" in gun magazines and websites. The issue being the lack of moisture in the steaks and even then the holes were marginally more than the original diameter and many had keyholed.
Pistol bullets just poke holes.
Pistol bullets in a non cns hit cause death by blood loss (fainting due to lack of oxygen). The best way to do this is to cause a through and through with the largest diameter pistol round possible and if it is an expanding bullet jagged or uniform edges help.
Its really that simple. Until a bullet has enough energy to surpass the thresholds of the stretch capacity of human tissues you will not see results like you do in ballistics gel

>>63896399
>This is because law enforcement and other people do not want a pass through.
I've seen people say that this never happens, but it has. Even with old unjacketed lead .38 SWCs, not even hardcast, there's account by police of those managing to sometimes pass through a suspect (though usually having spent almost all their energy doing so).
Now imagine how an actually jacketed 9mm, .40, .45, 10mm, or .357 could do, they're gonna be harder projectile with a lot more ass in them.

>>63896412
There are plenty of accounts of officers being hit by pass through. 45 in a hotel shootout comes to mind. Most of the time from the reports I have read they tend to blame the bullet choice for what was really a lack of awareness and control on the person who fired the shots part.
For me, its not a concern. I want a through and through. However I wouldn't belittle someone who doesn't when its a safety concern for them. Its knowing your limitations and being aware of what situations you could be in.

>>63894635
>Larger gelatin cavity
ftfy anon