Or both?

Probably both, but another example of how the S300 and S400 underperform compared to the promised specs

I don't pay attention to sand wars, did iran lose?

>>63901661 (OP)
IF I BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE WOULD IT KEEP KIDS OFF MY LAWN?

>>63901704
In theory it would attract more children and in practice it wouldn't even do much against hobbyist drones

>>63901697
Iran never received the S-400, only India and China did, and maybe Belarus

>>63901697
>example of how the S300 and S400 underperform compared to the promised specs
the israeli commandos took them out on the ground

iran didn't lose
>attacked first
>attackers didn't achieve their stated goals

>>63901869
iran is completely wide open to land invasion right now, anyone randomly wandering in could claim the whole place for themselves

>>63901882
like america? mexicans are conquering it right now.

regime change of iran was part of the stated goals at various points, which didn't occur.

>>63901882
like afghanistan

>>63901882
>90+ million people
>extremely mountainous terrain
>2 million+ km land mass

>>63901737
Russia is transferring some there, but even if they got some already i guess they might not be operational yet

>>63901661 (OP)
persians just arent a warrior people like jews are

>>63901930
>90+ million people
>extremely mountainous terrain
the latter will be the iranian armys final resting place and the former turns into lots of rotting meat on modern battlefield

>>63901704
>>63901718

>>63901704
>>63901718

>>63902082
Ok schizo

>>63902111
one of the parties of this exchange is the predator and its not iran

I find it hilarious how the regime dictator just declared victory imao

Posting AI garbage reflects poorly on our community and instantly identifies you as someone who is not a member of that community.

>>63902158
>loose many senior leaders
>loose air defense
>israel has complete air superiority
>burgers finnish bunkers isreal is not capable of destroying
>only able to throw a bunch of ballistic missiles
>not beeing capable of shooting down at least one enemy jet
yeah we won

>>63901861
i don't think commandoes took out long range AD on the ground. S-300 was already rendered innefective by israel strikes in late october last year

>>63901869
i don't know, man. net and yahoo looks too happy for someone who didn't achieve their stated goals. i think they bombed everything they wanted to bomb and even got the americans to get the sites they couldn't get themselves

>>63902158
The real time third-world retconning of Iran from mighty invincible lion to always been a weak and helpless wittle kitten is astonishing. Its like Saddam's Iraq all over again.

>>63902175
Lose

>>63902193
>i don't think commandoes took out long range AD on the ground.
the retired US military officers on Fox News told me they took out 70 air defense targets and another one said they used commandos armed with NLOS Spike missiles, I don't know what their sources are

>>63902369
yeah i know mossad took out AD on the ground, but i am pretty sure most of it was mid-range AD and maybe SHORAD

>>63902163
It's plastic tubing being transported, norktard.

>>63901661 (OP)
i mean have they lost really?
all what this hit made was to make sure that iran will leave npt
will throw everyone out
wont be able to monitor anything
someone will give them nukes for real

i dont see it happening unless somehow they argue that israel should be on npt otherwise forget about it

>"do you have proof that there are Israeli shills on the board?"
>Please ignore that 3-5 of these always pop up at 1pm Tel Aviv time btw

>>63902175
>We

Fuck off back to Israel parasite. This is an American board.

>>63901882
>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE finish the war we started goyim!!! PLEASE get involved in another ten year sand war that serves US interests in no way whatsoever

Lol. No.

>>63902451
Obviously posted and intended as a misleading spam image, Youtard.

love how retards think every middle eastern soldier is an ISIS insurgent who won't just surrender immediately

>>63902477
>european officials say
lol. even if true what is iran going to do with the uranium?

>>63902484
Nice try chink, Israel interest IS US interest

>>63901661 (OP)
MAKE IT ORKIER!!!

>>63901697
Indians say the S400 performed very well against Pakistan and it was money well spent. Putin was elevated to godhood

>>63902587
>india says
>against pakistan

>>63902556
They'll surely just take it to the enrichment plant in the next town over, right? Right?

>>63902821
Pak Air Force was deemed to be adjacent to western air forces but Indians say s400 redeemed itself very well

>>63902477
>Fuck off back to Israel parasite.
>This is an American board.
You said Israel twice

you can tell it was enough damage because the iranians haven't tried escalation. if they were unperturbed there would be some real attempts to harm the Israeli armed forces and US naval forces in particular

They lost because they’re poor and it’s the kind of conflict where only expensive stuff matters.

>>63901661 (OP)
they lost because they're muslims

>>63903200
>Pak Air Force was deemed to be adjacent to western air forces

>>63902919
If they were able to save much of the progress the old centrifuges made, building new centrifuges and resuming the refinement might not take that long.

>>63903610
It's been 70 years and they have nothing to show for it. Even North Korea built their first nuke decades ago. Sandniggers just don't have the necessary IQ.

>>63903610
yeah they can just head to the centrifuge store and buy more

>>63902472
Compared to the dozens on paraglider AI slop for weeks after Oct 7, that's pretty tame. Not to mention the resident serb spamming BBC anytime some calamity befalls the mighty BRICS alliance

>>63901699
It's the cope Israel, therefor the US, therefor /k/ are running with.

>>63901699
>Command structure decimated in the opening hours and replacements picked off every day
>Mossad is literally everywhere
>Control of air lost to the point that Israeli drones are hanging out over airfields and sniping F-14s on the tarmac
>Air defence silent because of multi-pronged attacks including DEAD, stealth strikes, and commandos sending drones into installations
>IRGC fucked up the ass
>Nuclear sites blasted to the point that nobody, not even the Iranians themselves, can get a real handle of what they have left
>Throughout all of this, not a single IDF manned aircraft is shot down despite most of them being non-stealth aircraft on bombing sorties in supposedly fortified airspace
In terms of Iranian victories, we have:
>95% of ballistic missiles shot down or allowed to crash in unpopulated areas
>5% that does make it through hits civilian housing rather than actual military assets. Most important thing they hit is a fucking hospital because ziggerism is contagious
Yeah, that's the Great Victory the Ayatollah espouses. A tiny fraction of their missiles survived to hit Israel and those didn't do anything more than kill a few randos and just piss off the Israelis more.

>>63901661 (OP)
Why do Americans think Iran is 'le evil'? They didn't even do the 9/11 attack, it was the Saudis. and America is friends with the Saudis now

>>63903980
This might shock you but stuff actually happened before 9/11, the Iranians were also responsible for the lion share of casualties during the GWOT either directly via their Shia militia proxies or indirectly via Soleimani introducing and popularizing the road side ied tactic in Iraq

>>63901661 (OP)

>>63903452
>there would be some real attempts to harm the Israeli armed forces and US naval forces in particular
They were going all out with ballistic missile barrages prior to this and they proved to be almost totally ineffectual. They just don't have the capability.

>>63901699
Iran took a beating, however in the end they made the attacker back off and seek a face-saving exit. It was only a week ago that Trump was talking about "unconditional surrender".

The attackers failed to sufficiently disrupt Iran's command abilities and failed to sufficiently suppress Iran's missile launches. It is said that by the end of the war, Israeli air defenses were running on fumes. The Iranians demonstrated that not only did they retain the ability to deliver a nuclear warhead to Israeli cities, they could also inflict significant damage without using nuclear warheads. For example, Haifa power plant and refinery were struck. More critical infrastructure such as power plants and semiconductor foundries in Israel could be made targets of retaliation if further targets in Iran were bombed, which made the war unfeasible for the attackers to continue. Hence the B-2 raid, which allowed all sides declare victory and quit while saving face.

>>63904907
>failed to sufficiently suppress Iran's missile launches
"sufficiently supress" is subjective. number's wise iran's launches went down drastically. they went from firing neary 100 per wave to a couple in very small, sporadic "waves". their launching capabilities were heavily degraded. now of course they still caused damage because of leakers. but the damage they caused in comparison to that caused by israel is very laughable. military wise they didn't cause any damage at all, except kill an 18-year-old soldier (conscript)

>Haifa power plant
wasn't struck. they did damage a refinery yes.


>Hence the B-2 raid, which allowed all sides declare victory and quit while saving face.
the B-2 were always part of the plan, retardo. the GBU-57 was literally designed for this. without it the war would have been pointless.

>>63904907
>in the end they made the attacker back off and seek a face-saving exit
Israel did everything they set out to do tho. They needed America's help to hit Fordow, but they pretty successfully annihilated Iran's air defense, military leadership, industry, and a good portion of their TELs. Meanwhile Iran launched a few hundred missiles and managed to kill a whopping 30 Israeli civilians.

>>63903867
I think it's an exaggeration to say that Iranian air defense was "silent". They managed to shoot down a bunch of Eitan and Hermes-900 drones. Israel used standoff weapons to strike the unfinished IR-40 reactor, so apparently they worried about Iranian AD even when attacking such a relatively unimportant and remote target. Obviously Iran couldn't shoot down manned aircraft if they mostly relied on standoff weapons when bombing targets in defended zones. Consider that Iran is a country whose area is 3 times that of Ukraine's, and Iran had less high-powered AD systems than Ukraine even before losing a bunch during the June 13 Pearl Harbor style surprise attack

We don't know exactly how effective Iranian missile strikes were because of Israeli censorship, however we do know that the Israelis called the Americans to bail them out and then eventually it was decided to just quit the war.

>>63903980

Anon... Iran

>is proudly and openly the #1 sponsor of terrorist organizations in the world and has a network that extends beyond just the middle east
>has been a problem child for about 50 years for global stability
>was a based country before the Ayatollah took over in 79 and fucked over an entire nation of people
>is currently the last powerful barbaric holdout in the Middle East
>is a theocracy that executes and jails people for making tiktoks
>is actively trying to build nuclear weapons

Take your pick, the whole 'only America and Israel oppose Iran' is literally a 2025 meme tier talking point that showed up in the past few months, Iranian human rights violations have been off the charts for decades. Western Nations (which includes Europe) as a whole have been kicking the metaphorical can down the road for 46 years not wanting to be the ones to deal with the absolute clusterfuck that is post 79' Iran.

>>63904936
Iran seemingly used a tit-for-tat retaliation strategy. Israel bombed Shahr Rey refinery, then Iran bombed Haifa refinery. Israel bombed Imam Hussein University, then Iran bombed the Weizmann Institute. Israel bombed some South Pars gas infrastructure, then Iran bombed Haifa power plant. Etc. It would be only natural that the Israeli air force's operational tempo would go down after the first few days. It would also only be natural that offensive sorties would be reduced because of defensive sorties to deal with drone waves. If offensive sortie rates went down, then it would be only natural that retaliatory missile launch rates would go down. Also, it has been said that Israeli interception rates went down due to lack of interceptors and due to Iran using higher quality missiles.

>>63904936
>>63905034
(post broken up due to spam filter)

I saw vidrel of the Haifa power plant strike. Is it fake? It seems the missiles missed the turbines and transformers, since power did not go out in the area, but it still started a fire

https://xcancel.com/ME_Observer_/status/1934426729071907242

>the B-2 were always part of the plan
Yet Trump was railing about "unconditional surrender", "everyone immediately evacuate Tehran", "There has already been great death and destruction, but there is still time to make this slaughter, with the next already planned attacks being even more brutal, come to an end", "Iran must make a deal, before there is nothing left, and save what was once known as the Iranian Empire. No more death, no more destruction, JUST DO IT, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE", etc

Furthermore, it seems that a lot of other parts of the war were unnecessary if the B-2 raid had been the plan all along.

>>63903867
If Mossad took out and fucked up the vast majority of the AD systems on the ground I don't think we can draw any conclusions about AD systems. Like AD systems aren't intended to protect against infantry lol.

>>63904946
>Israel achieved all goals
They didn't really achieve anything that fundamentally changed the strategic factors though. Iran's political system is still intact. The 60% enriched uranium is still out there somewhere. Iran still has the Pickaxe Mountain backup facility. Iran's economic lifelines are still intact.

>they pretty successfully annihilated Iran's industry,
Did they? They did a few attacks on economic infrastructure, but it does not seem to have been much. To my knowledge, they didn't even scratch Iran's main oil export infrastructure. Presumably, this was because they realized they could not sufficiently suppress Iranian missile launches or intercept incoming missiles, and therefore needed to avoid similarly damaging retaliation.

>>63905034
>. Israel bombed Shahr Rey refinery, then Iran bombed Haifa refinery
i am pretty sure you chronology is correct. i am pretty sure iran bombed the Haifa refinery first and in turn israel bombed the Shar Rey. that's how i remember it.

>Israel bombed Imam Hussein University, then Iran bombed the Weizmann Institute
israel didn't bomb the university for the lolz or the sake of bombing. i am certain the university is linked to iran's nuke problem. so they destroyed those parts of the campus. iran destroyed a section dedicated to cancer, genealogy research and things of that nature. just wanted to point that out

> It would be only natural that the Israeli air force's operational tempo would go down after the first few days
because they had less targets than they started with and no longer need to do SEAD/DEAD.

>If offensive sortie rates went down, then it would be only natural that retaliatory missile launch rates would go down.
the tit-for-tat argument doesn't make sense. israel would conduct multiple strikes per day. iran would only respond in either one launch of doezes of missiles or multiple small waves. for example when israel destroyed launchers, AD moving around, assasinations, or hitting missiles bases and factories, what were the responses by iran then? there was no tit-for-tat in the sense that you're imagining it. missile launch rates went down because launchers and operatives were getting killed on a regular basis


>Also, it has been said that Israeli interception rates went down due to lack of interceptors and due to Iran using higher quality missiles.
that's bullshit of course. and there's no proof of it. israel was prepared for a much large volume of fire from iran. iran basically shit the bed when compared to israel's estimated of what the war was gonna look like

>>63905044
>Yet Trump was railing about "unconditional surrender", "everyone immediately evacuate Tehran", "There has already been great death and destruction, but there is still time to make this slaughter, with the next already planned attacks being even more brutal, come to an end", "Iran must make a deal, before there is nothing left, and save what was once known as the Iranian Empire. No more death, no more destruction, JUST DO IT, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE", etc

what does Trump posting have do with anything?

>Furthermore, it seems that a lot of other parts of the war were unnecessary if the B-2 raid had been the plan all along.
the B-2 raids weren't a singular point. they were a PART of the plan. without the other parts the mission wouldn't have been the same. for example, if they didn't take AD out, they wouldn't have waltzed in with the B-2 and other planes, including 4th-gen aicraft

>>63905066
>didn't fundamentally changed the strategic factors though.
>ballistic missile production crippled
>nuclear programmed acked for year
>air defense nowhere to be seen
those are all strategic changes.

>The 60% enriched uranium is still out there somewhere
and they can't do shit with it. unless they're planning on building a dirty bomb. which they aren't because even they aren't that retarded

>>63905066
>They didn't really achieve anything that fundamentally changed the strategic factors though.
Their military capabilities have been *severely* degraded.
>The 60% enriched uranium is still out there somewhere.
Doesn't matter so long as they can't enrich it to weapons grade. Israel can just bomb them again if they start getting close.
>still has the Pickaxe Mountain backup facility
Still under construction, isn't it? And even if they complete it >>63903739
>They did a few attacks on economic infrastructure, but it does not seem to have been much. To my knowledge, they didn't even scratch Iran's main oil export infrastructure.
I probably should have specified military industry. The reason they have not retaliated is because they lack the capability to meaningfully do so.

>>63905109
>i am pretty sure you chronology is correct.
meant your chronology is incorrect*

>>63905146
>which they aren't because even they aren't that retarded
Never doubt how retarded extremist can be.

>>63905019
>Shah
>based
Really anon? You really posted that? That is your genuinely held belief? Like outside of disliking the current regime, you seriously consider the Shah to have been good?

>>63901904
Keep fooling yourself. It's adorable.

>Israel decapitates IRGC and Iranian nuclear program
>Iran begs US to tell Israel to stop and is ignored
>US bombs Iranian nuclear sites then gives Iran 2 weeks to think it over
>"Actually Israel cried out for the US to call for a cease fire to save face"

>>63905053
That's sort of true but I doubt Israel was able to take them out all manually. Most likely 80/20 with the 80% being through anti radiation missiles from a distance

>>63905601

>>63905019
>proudly and openly the #1 sponsor of terrorist organizations in the world
Totally irrelevant to the US. They don't date strike any US bases/personnel
>and has a network that extends beyond just the middle east
No they don't lol
>>as been a problem child for about 50 years for global stability
Literally a random shithole with no military/economic capabilities. Only really capable of sponsoring militias in already failed states (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen), no abilities beyond that
>was a based country before the Ayatollah took over in 79 and fucked over an entire nation of people
Yeah it was a based shithole alright
>is currently the last powerful barbaric holdout in the Middle East
Lol
>is a theocracy that executes and jails people for making tiktoks
So does every other US 'ally' in the Middle East. All barbaric shitholes
>is actively trying to build nuclear weapons
North Korea has nukes, was never a problem for the US

>>63905019
>Iranian human rights violations have been off the charts for decades
Egyptian human rights record is just as bad if not worse. Hasn't stopped the US from subsidizing their military dictatorship. Can we stop pretending this has anything to do with human rights?

>>63902175

>complete air superiority
>not a single video of Israeli jet flying over Iran

>>63906039
>World_Affairs11

>>63906084
https://www.zerohedge.com/military/watch-live-pentagon-holds-irrefutable-press-conference-trumps-iran-strikes

>>63906095
>The Trump administration has discussed possibly helping Iran access as much as $30 billion to build a civilian-energy-producing nuclear program
Jeets lie, go figure

>>63906106

jesus, you dumb, you can't even put 2 and 2 together. Why help them build a civilian nuclear energy program if not to bribe them to stop building nuclear weapon

>>63906118
They can't make a nuclear weapon anymore retard. The point is to make Iran dependent on foreign nuclear materials.

>>63906127

whatever retard

>>63906133
Go away ESL pooskin, next time don't blatantly lie.

>>63904687
>GWOT
Iraq didn't even do the 9/11 attack, it was purely self defense on their part. Why did America even attack them and not the Saudis?

>>63905019
>Iran is #1 sponsor of terrorist organization in the world
Dude America sponsored ISIS and Israel sponsored Hamas, this is just a hypocritical take
>Iran a based country during the Shah ruling
Somehow western country topling a democratically elected leader and installing a western aligned dictator is based? Ok Nafotard
>Is theocracy that executes and jails people for making tiktoks
As if other middle eastern countries that the US supports are any different
>Is actively trying to build nuclear weapons
Who cares? North Korea, Pakistan, South Africa and India has them and America doesn't bother to attack them, what gives? [spoiler](It's because of Israel isn't it)[/spoiler]

>>63905066
>The 60% enriched uranium is still out there somewhere
You niggers keep saying this based on absolutely nothing but your fervent desire for it to be true.

>>63906040
>Totally irrelevant to the US. They don't date strike any US bases/personnel
Beirut.

>>63906365
When as that?

>>63906339
There's also no evidence that the US bombing worked

>There's no evidence that the US bombing worked

>>63901661 (OP)
It's mostly that Iranians are retarded. It's like attacking toddlers, but where one in a hundred is an adult.

>>63902486
*kicks you in the balls and knocks you down, mercilessly pummeling your face with my vastly superior strength, my huge fists effortlessly shattering your dainty forearms, lips, and teeth to pulp until you're a bloody, crying mess.*

Never raise your voice to me again, faggot. The lion rapes the small dog when it barks.

>>63906760
BASED!

>>63905044
> Yet Trump was railing about "unconditional surrender", "everyone immediately evacuate Tehran
Trump is always shit posting
Him being retarded proves nothing

>>63906596
there's no evidence that it actually destroyed fordow though

>>63902163
So does being a tripfag

>>63906040
>No they don't lol
why are you gay
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2024-002059_EN.html

>The Swedish Security Service confirmed earlier this year that the Iranian regime has been using criminal networks in Sweden to carry out violent acts against other states, groups, or individuals in Sweden that Iran regards as threats[1]. Similar reports have been made in several other European countries[2].

>>63905066
>Iran's economic lifelines are still intact.
which lifelines are those? buying rocket parts from the chinese and assembling them for russia? selling oil to china?

>>63907034
Oil, and Trump is lifting the sanctions

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/trump-signals-us-may-ease-iran-oil-sanction-enforcement-help-rebuild-country-2025-06-25/

>>63906133
your retardation is insane. nuclear reactors are complex.

>>63907039
>but signaled a potential easing in enforcement to help the country rebuild.
>signaled a potential
thats two maybes in a row dipshit.

>>63907051
Cope, keep begging America to join your bullshit war lmao

>>63907061
retard.

>>63907039
the Grand Poobah of Iran shit the bed shortly thereafter and knifed the prospect

>>63907042

what does your claim have to do with this: "Why help them build a civilian nuclear energy program if not to bribe them to stop building nuclear weapon"?

I knew US army is full retards

>>63901661 (OP)
they lost because they're ultimately a buch of fucking losers who are so dogmatically tunnel-visioned on destroying Israel and the USA that they basically made themselves open for defectors and collaborators to work against them.
>tldr they're still assmad about the whole British Petroleum thing 70 years later

>>63907079
did he copy this from ChatGPT?

>>63907023
>random thugs is equivalent to a transnational terrorist organization
Just admit Iran is an impoverished shithole with nothing to show for. It's not the USSR like you dipshits drum it up to be.

>>63906596
I assume you have the evidence on your phone with you?

>>63906051
jets are tiny dots in the sky when flying at max altitude, you'll be lucky to spot one. this is why even MALE drones that fly at lower altitudes than jets can follow targets around without their knowledge

>>63906940
There's no evidence anything at fordow survived. QED.

>>63905154
Iranians are 95% done enriching their uranium to nuke grade.

>>63907178
>bad isnt as bad as bad was
thanks for your analysis dipshit

>>63907822
most of the existing material is buried deep underground
the equipment needed to enrich it further is destroyed
the production lines of that equipment are also destroyed
and the people with the most know how about this entire project are dead
if you also believe israel then the nuclear archive - where they kept notes of their progress is also destroyed

also it goes beyond weapons grade uranium
sure you can make a gun type nuke
but what does that matter if you can't miniaturize it to a warhead you can deliver
and again, those that worked on it and their notes are gone.

So have we all just dropped any pretense of the uranium being for clean energy?

>>63903980
>Why do Americans think Iran is 'le evil
Iranians literally chant "Death to America". They also fund extreme West hating groups like Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah.
Just how ignorant are you?

>>63908070
That's because the west ousted the democratically elected Iranian leader in the 1950s and installed the Shah which is basically a western aligned dictator. They have a good reason to hate America, that doesn't make them evil

>>63901661 (OP)
they were arabs.

>>63901697
In fairness to the S300, it genuinely does have a good combat record, the Ukrainian military credited it with the Russian Air Force's inability to gain air superiority in the early days of the conflict and the country has done what it can to procure new ones. It's also the first system to successfully intercept a ballistic missile, and its specs were intimidating enough that they are generally considered the reason that Israel acquired the F35 in the first place. Moreover, Iran returned a number of S300 systems to Russia for its war in Ukraine which left their AD net woefully underequipped with them and allowed Israel to disable their S300s last year so they did not participate in this particular round of strikes. It also has to be said that some of the S300's ineffectiveness is that NATO has had access to the systems since the Baltic States joined NATO (since the Baltics inherited them from the USSR) and so NATO SEAD doctrine has very intimate familiarity with the system, its capabilities, and ways to exploit it. S400 is kind of a lemon though.

>>63908070
Tbf this is basically just a meaningless slogan at this point. Iran and Israel flew joint air force missions during the Iran-Iraq War and Iran conducted joint operations with the US in support of the invasion of Afghanistan.

>>63907822
They just had half a dozen 15 ton bombs dropped on their main enrichment facility that took years to build.

The factory where they build their centrifuges got obliterated by JDAMs.

This is a massive setback, and Israel can just do it again if it looks like they're getting close again.

>>63901930
Those mountains didn't stop Anglos and Soviets nor will they stop Americans

>>63908101
current Iranian government isn't democratically elected either anon

>>63906040
>North Korea has nukes, was never a problem for the US

>>63906295
Ok, show me the evidence US sponsored as in, voluntarily and actively gave resources to ISIS, same with Israel, and no, Israel allowing palis to get an alternative to Fatah isn't "sponsoring".
So you like a theocratic regime that much? Go live there, although guven your language you already are poor and live in some shithole.
I see you put a logical fallacy there, the whole business with the Koreas is we are living their postwar, norks are now on the lash by China who sees a direct confrontation by the west as not worth the effort, meanwhile Iran wants impunity to do whatever they wish to sunnis, israelis and assorted non-muslims, they get none of this and this is the reason no other arab country or even China and Russia did anything for them other than empty gestures, no one likes militant theocracies.

>>63909386
By this point I have noticed iranifags sincerely believe they win the discussion by having the last post, what is funnier is they copycat every argument and evidence you give them but always forget to keep internal consistency. They are at best midwits by definition.

>>63901699
Politically, the questions of Iranian strategic power and nuclear weapons possession are far from settled issues. Only time will tell how it all shakes out.
It terms of actual combat, Iran got fucking rolled.
>>63901661 (OP)
Both tqh.
Their air forces likely didn't take off vs Israel, and it seems the S-300 probably isn't effective against modern western-trained air forces.

>>63901699
Israel and the US were completely routed, and the Americans even lost one of their precious "stealth" bombers to simple flak AA.
A multipolar world is here and BRICS will dominate in it.

>>63905019
>is a theocracy that executes and jails people for making tiktoks
WTF they're based. Why did everyone lie to me.
They would be even more based if they beheaded every zoomers that film in FUCKING PORTRAIT.

>>63906095
>ziggerhedge
lmao

>>63909425
>Ok, show me the evidence US sponsored as in, voluntarily and actively gave resources to ISIS
Ok here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

The US sponsored ISIS because they wanted to topple Assad

>same with Israel, and no, Israel allowing palis to get an alternative to Fatah isn't "sponsoring".
Holy cope lmao, so Israel funded a terrorist group just to provide an alternative Palestinian political party? Fucking why? You want to make them look bad? and no, I don't want to see another Israeli complaining about Oct 7th when they did it to themselves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

>>63906845
He's both the smartest and most powerful person in the equation.

>>63905154
>The 60% enriched uranium is still out there somewhere.
>Doesn't matter so long as they can't enrich it to weapons grade.
60% is sufficient to build a nuclear device. Pakistan and NK are rumoured to have used 70% in their first bombs.

>>63903867
funny thing that the only israeli serviceman killed in this war or exchange or whatever
was an off duty private first class
while iran lost 30 generals

>>63901882
>Iran
>Land Invasion
Top kek, I am craving for that.

>>63902587
>Indians say the S400 performed very well
Because they would never admit to the shit in their own shoes
>>63903587
Paki airforce is easy there at the top of all turdie airforces. They find the shit out of it, too.

>>63910678
>the entire economy of Iran is dependent on that little bit on the coast
Sure would be a shame if someone just decides to occupy the part that all their trade flows through.

>>63910732
Ok do it yourself then faggot

>>63909386
What is the problem? Was the U.S. or its allies nuked or something?
>>63907971
>refuses to respond

>>63910659
Bullshit. But you retards believe anything I guess

>>63901661 (OP)
It appears their mobile AAM systems were about Hawk tier - in other words, can be shut down with concerted automated countermeasures. So not an absolute shield and worthless for point defense but can take down overextended enemy aircraft. Bit sad, I thought better but the strikes took hours to hit those point targets not weeks.

>>63905146
>*rebuilds everything*
Until Iran is permanently unable to build missiles or nukes, nothing has changed. There will be more nuclear facilities to refine the uranium in, if they haven't already been built. Iran knew well enough to build several facilities spread out around the country. All the past airstrikes and attacks on their program didn't stop them either.

>>63906339
>The 60% enriched uranium is blown to smithereens
You niggers keep saying this based on absolutely nothing but your fervent desire for it to be true.

They received early warning of the attacks so would have evacuated the stockpiles to other facilities around the country. And because prior attacks on their nuclear program didn't destroy their uranium stockpiles either. If it did Israel wouldn't even bother attack now.

>>63901882
>>63902082
Just two more COIN Ops

>>63902562
Log off bibi

>>63903683
It doesn't help that Israel is blowing up their scientists and facilities. But that hasn't stopped them yet.

>>63903774
>it's ok when we spread hasbara

>>63912582
Yes, Allah delivered unto them seventy times seven radiation-shielded flying magic horses invisible to infidel radar and satellite with which they spirited all the uranium from the most hardened structure in the country to less secure, easier-to-bomb locations, truly Allah is Snackbar.

>>63909379
No, but if that is an issue then why did America do it?

>>63907987
>>63909266
Rebuild and spread out, if they haven't already. They didn't get 600 tons from nowhere

>>63906127
Not with thar attitude. Why would Iran want to be dependent on foreign nuclear materials instead of making their own? All the attacks and subterfuge from outside are plenty of reasons to reject that

>>63907987
>their notes are gone
yeah they wouldn't have a backup anywhere of course

>>63907784
Occams razor suggests that nothing ever happens, because assuming something happened is 1 assumption too far. Therefore there's no evidence to assume anything within Gordon's bunkers was affected. Checkmate NAFaggot

>>63912678
Or very public announcements from bibi and orange man prior to attacking gave the Iranians plenty of notice to move the secret sauce to secret locations. If they haven't moved them there beforehand altogether

https://www.ft.com/content/0808eeb8-341c-4a4e-8ccf-0db07febef91
https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/24/politics/intel-assessment-us-strikes-iran-nuclear-sites

>>63912750
it was the back up
the source material is in israel

>>63901699
Badly. Despite whatever cope you hear it seems the centrifuges in Fordow are fucked. They’re extremely sensitive equipment and absolute best case for Iran is they have some 60% enriched uranium stored somewhere. The other facilities are completely fucked. Their nuclear program is fucked for at least 5-10 years which likely kicks that can beyond the Ayatollah’s lifespan. Israel exposed their air defenses as laughably weak. They demonstrated mass infiltration of Iran both in the physical and intelligence spheres. Outside of some tards calling for regime change that will inevitably happen naturally by age anyway the U.S. and Israel delivered a one sided ass whipping. The prudent thing imo as they can just prop up a western friendly/compromised replacement to Khameni by eliminating their plants opposition internally.

>>63912770
Don't even bother trying with these retards, they'll go out of their way to say that Israeli and US intelligence pointing to diminished but still plausible nuclear enrichment capacity isn't important.
You cannot argue with these retards, they'll always act like inconclusive results are catastrophic.

>>63912603
>>63910067
>>63906295

>>63901661 (OP)
>Did Iran lose
You're assuming an awful lot here

>>63912582
Oh, no shit, we were going to hit them where the uranium was stored? The fucking Iranian Jack Ryan must've cracked that one. Why do you think they stored it in the most hardened bunker they could construct in the first place, you fucking dipshit? So they could...move it to a less secure place once the bombs were coming? I suppose while the Mossad and the Five Eyes were all blinded by a mischievous djinn?

I know you're sad that Obama's dream of a nuclear Iran dictating terms to a cowed Israel and America just got turned into a fucked to death pile of burning caca, but you've got to accept that it's over. As much as you hate it, America/Israel/Trump won again, and insisting that being able to imagine an Iranian victory is proof of its plausibility is only embarrassing yourself further.

>>63906698
Going by their track record if you attack Iran you may end up fighting toddlers

>>63901661 (OP)
They lost because they're retarded and corruption is just how business is done in that country, so Mossad paid their way into the highest echelons of the nuclear program.

Dunno why the fuck we have to help Israel, seems like they have the situation handled.

>>63912576
they'll get spotted and then bombed. it's not easy to hide even the construction alone of such a site. this is far from the last attack on iran, obviously

>>63912576
Anon the only way to make iran unable to construct anything at all would be to wipe the entire country out and not in the exaggerated sense. You can' declare victory just because the enemy didn't kill everyone down to their dogs

>>63913421
That's exactly how muzzies act though. As long as one stands, he will declare victory - because to him, genocide is victory, and failure to do so is defeat. He will project his values onto you.

>>63902587
May I see all these pakoid planes downed by the S-400, please? Poos lie just like their pakoid brothers, and their kike cousins.

>>63910678
how can we overcome the Jazmourian Depression

>>63905121
>>63906845
NTA but even if Trump is a retard, his posting can still be viewed as him publicly declaring the US's war goals. And even if it's Trump, when the leadership of any country publicly states its war goals, that matters for determining after the end of a war whether a country got what it wanted from the war or not. Bibi and Trump both wanted to see Iran's nuclear program completely destroyed. Since the jury is still out on how long it will take for Iran to get its nuclear program back to the way it was, it remains to be seen whether Israel achieved its main goal or not. In addition, Trump has now said he wants both Iran and Israel to maintain the ceasefire and make a deal. Bibi on the other hand, most likely wants to be able to break the ceasefire at any point if he feels Iran's nuclear program wasn't hit hard enough. If Trump is able to stop Bibi from attacking Iran again in that event, then I don't think it can be viewed as a total victory for Israel.

>>63914204
>NTA but even if Trump is a retard, his posting can still be viewed as him publicly declaring the US's war goals
no. that's not how it works. even for other countries

>>63914208
>that's not how it works. even for other countries
Why? Congress gave Trump a blank check to do whatever the fuck he wanted to Iran, and it's not like anyone else has the power to override Trump and set US policy towards Iran. As for Israel, Bibi has been able to delay his own trial by ordering any military action he wants. Putin declared that Russia's goal was the "demilitarisation and denazification" of Ukraine, he sure as fuck hasn't been able to achieve that, and no one in Russia been able to challenge those goals without getting defenestrated. And there's plenty of other examples of countries where a tinpot dictator unilaterally started a war, made a big speech of why the country was going to war, and then ended up getting their ass handed to them.

If what the head of government declares as the war goals aren't important for determining after the war whether a country won a war or not, then what they fuck is?

>>63914297
it turns out most heads of states aren't kings or autocratic ruler's with uncheck power and decision making. this goes for most western countries even israel. some tweet trump made is just that there was nothing formal about it or decided through government bodies. for israel it's different, they have a security or war cabinet that makes decisions on security and war related issues. even though putin is a dictator and pretty much anything goes, even there there was some form of formality. as for bib delaying his trial, maybe hamas shouldn't have pulled oct 7 if they didn't want him "reordering the middle east".

>>63914326
>Some tweet trump made is just that there was nothing formal about it or decided through government bodies.
There's been little to no formal declarations of war made since WWII; "formality" doesn't mean shit in the modern era for determining whether a country is at war or not, and for determining what a country is trying to achieve by going to war.

Any attempt to limit Trump's war powers towards Iran failed to get passed by Congress. And no one in the executive branch has to power to go against Trump's military decisions because he's the Commander in Chief.

>for israel it's different, they have a security or war cabinet that makes decisions on security and war related issues.
Anyone in Bibi's war cabinet who has said that the war needs to end has ended up quitting. The only curbs on Bibi's war powers that you could possibly argue exist is his ability to END the war because the far-right members of his cabinet have threatened to quit if he makes a deal with Hamas.

I'm not saying the US and Israel are tin dictatorships, and I'm not saying Trump or Bibi have the power to set wartime policy to the extent Putin or other dictators do. But at least looking at Iran, who in the US and Israeli government is seriously curbing Trump's or Bibi's war powers, and by extension, their ability to determine their country's war goals?

>As for bib delaying his trial, maybe hamas shouldn't have pulled oct 7 if they didn't want him "reordering the middle east".
I don't disagree with you on that. Leftists will argue that October 7th was justified by saying that "it was a concentration camp breakout", but they never seem to realize that it was a militarily retarded decision that led to all of Gaza being in ruins and under military occupation again.

My point was more that if Bibi has the power to delay his own trial by continuing a war, then there's also no one else in the Israeli government with the power to restrain Bibi's ability to set the war goals for Israel.

>>63914475
>There's been little to no formal declarations of war made since WWII
i didn't say a formal declaration of war. i was reffering to a formalizing of what the actual goals of a war are

>Any attempt to limit Trump's war powers towards Iran failed to get passed by Congress
trump's power is limited. he can't start a war for example. unlike countries with actual autocrats\


> But at least looking at Iran, who in the US and Israeli government is seriously curbing Trump's or Bibi's war powers, and by extension, their ability to determine their country's war goals?
america and israel are two different cases. israel did it as a sort of state policy before bibi even took power. i am sure most israelis would want to go ahead with it, as it wouldn't be the first time they targeted the nuclear programme of another country. Trump did the bombing mostly cause he can.

>My point was more that if Bibi has the power to delay his own trial by continuing a war, then there's also no one else in the Israeli government with the power to restrain Bibi's ability to set the war goals for Israel.
he will cave to public pressure at some point. so far although there's been talks of pardoning him