Why is interceptor procurement so slow?

>>63907856 (OP)
>military watch magazine
>check out website
>most articles are just shilling for chinese and russian tech
>even claims china's new fighters are 6th gen

idk if this particular claim is true but your source is fucking retarded, pick a better one.

>>63907865
>even claims china's new fighters are 6th gen
So does American military experts.

>>63907867
*do

Because the country that makes them built to stockpile requirements and then maintenance levels of production. Now that there's missiles to replace they'll be rebuilt to stockpile requirements. The better question is can you drink the tap water where you are?

>>63907867
Those "military experts" are experts of ripping extra dosh from taxpayers, not actually on fighters

>>63907871
Why has American been keeping such a low stockpile of THAAD interceptors?

>The better question is can you drink the tap water where you are?

Yes, and unlike your American tap water contaminated from gas released by fracking, my tap water isn’t flammable.

>>63907871
>Because the country that makes them built to stockpile requirements and then maintenance levels of production
So in other words they can only make up to a few hundred of those and in a prolonged conflict the US would run out in a matter of weeks? Okay

they're very expensive complex munitions.

mostly a waste of money and time when you actually do the math, but mic makes a lot of money from them, so they like that.

>>63907883
They can ramp up production during war time, there's no need to now. Right now defense spending is 3.5% GDP, in WW2 it peaked at 40%. Today that would be a defense budget around 10 trillion dollars.

>>63907901
>They can ramp up production during war time
How has that worked out for Europe these last few years?

>>63907905
Last time I checked Europe hasn't been at war the last few years.

>>63907910
it's been at war with russia
it's just using ukrainian soldiers to do it

>>63907882
>American tap water contaminated from gas released by fracking

Wow you don't even understand the fundamental use case for fracking (near zero perm) or why what you just said is literally impossible geologically.

Euro education everyone

>>63907895
The main advantage of having a large quantity of AD and mid ot high range interceptors is that in the beginning stages of the war you get more time to react and adjust your posture. Having everything airborne and at the highest levels of alertness is too hard and expensive and if you can at least mostly survive the initial volleys of enemy munitions you have more time to disperse. It's not like even China has infinite launch capacity either and if you survive the initial salvoes of missiles it will take time to reload and and fire again. Even then missiles are cheaper to make than interceptors designed to destroy missiles so in an attritional battle you will eventually run out. Ironically enough the best choice for the US is to make as many plants in Europe and Asia that also make the same munitions in order to increase production capacity which the US is already doing.

>>63907867
it's not tho, seethe eternally

>>63907915
Ukraine is at war with Russia. Europe is just lobbing some old stuff over there to get rid of it cheaply or to try out new stuff under actual combat conditions. What the French were doing in Africa was closer to a war than the Ukrainian situation is now in the daily lives of Europeans.

>>63907910
They are funding and supplying Ukraine, so a proxy war with Russia

>>63907928
By this logic, Europe is at war with China, North Korea and Iran.

>>63907928
Trying to move the goalposts in a thread with barely 20 posts is a sad look.

Are you at least payed by the (You)s or do you do it for free?

>>63907930
>>63907935
They said they would increase production to send more stuff to ukraine and never did, whats so hard to understand

>>63907919
the issue comes down to cost versus benefit. say you have a peer nation conflict:

10 interceptors
10 incoming
90% pk for the interceptors
interceptors and incoming cost about the same

1 incoming gets through and hits your defended target anyway. yes, that's better than if all 10 got through, but you expended the same amount in munitions as opfor and you still got hit.

air defense against planes and such is very useful, the same for warships with dual-purpose sam systems (sm-6 being both offensive and defensive), but you get to a point with missile defense where you should just buy more offensive missiles.

>>63907918
there are videos on youtube

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LBjSXWQRV8&pp=ygUSZnJhY2tpbmcgdGFwIHdhdGVy

>>63907867
ESL Alert

>>63907935
I agree. I am a factory and can confirm.

>>63907944
read, nigga, read >>63907870

>>63907937
>They said they would increase production to send more stuff to ukraine and never did
they hit this years munition production target last month
they are going to hit 2 million shells this year meanwhile the US can't even do half a million

>>63907856 (OP)
So what happened in Iran now?

>>63907856 (OP)
You already made this thread

>>63907937
Anon, Rheinmetall alone increased their 155mm shell production more than tenfold. Just because a steady supply to allies and friends isn't announced publicly doesn't mean it's not happening.
Are the concepts of "trust" and "reliability" so foreign to you that you can't fathom people and nations doing something without massive public scrutiny?

>>63907950
>they are going to hit 2 million shells this year
While North Korea sent Russia around 4-6 million shells since 2023 on top of the ~3 million shells Russia produces annually

>>63907956
nuh uh

>>63907966
grt bait

>>63907959
>Anon, Rheinmetall alone increased their 155mm shell production more than tenfold.
That sounds significant but its still small and pretty irrelevant

>>63907974
Cope

>>63907979
Please refer to this Anons >>63907950 contribution and stop embarrassing yourself. You are not helping your cause, whatever that may be.

>>63907979
PootPoot will run out of zigger meat before ukraine runs out of shells.

>>63907943
Yeah of an aquifer that overlies a shale in that passed through the gas window during the Miocene, and has had flammable well water for more than a century before even vertical stage fracking was invented.

Would you like to try again, fag?

>>63907990
A small, sanctioned, isolated country is outperforming Europe in military production and thats not even counting Russia itself, pretty embarrassing if you ask me

>>63907992
Another million or so casualties is a small sacrifice in the grand scheme of things

>>63907990
In addition, Russia took Sumy and about 10 miles from Kyiv with a thousand Armatas.

>>63908004
Comparing a country that deems itself still at war and prioritizes producing weapons and ammunition over feeding its own citizens with a single(!) privately owned company from one of the most prosperous and stable regions of the world is a bit sad for the North Koreans.
I suggest you take a look at the numbers of shells produced in Europe during the first world war while half the continent was actively at war and give the thought what might be possible today a try.

>>63908064
Armata is in full production and North Korea has built more 5th gen than the west.

>>63908064
>>63908086
Delicious nafotroon cope. It turns out that not only did your sanctions not work, but the most sanctioned countries are the most productive and efficient while the countries reliant on the US are the most weak and useless

>>63908064
stop taking the bait annon

>>63908117
What bait? >>63908104 is right. North Korea has become stronger than Japan, South Korea, or the US combined

>>63907895
Spending the munitions is cheaper than suffering damage to whatever you're trying to defend.

>>63907856 (OP)
In fairness shooting missiles at the US military is likely to result in consequences far more severe than interception.

>>63908145
Western sissies have a hard time coping with the fact that their sanctions have only made their adversaries stronger

>>63907905
This is a really important question for reasons entirely unrelated to interceptor procurement and I'm personally torn between
>Europe could ramp up production easily were it not for political incapacity at home
and
>there is always going to be some bullshit that fucks your planned ramp up of production at the last minute in a real war

>>63908216
see >>63907938
there comes a point when you're spending more money overall, because you still get hit. pk will never exceed 95% (it's less in practice), and it's easier to defeat a missile than it is to make a new one to adapt to the countermeasures, so a pk of 90% is rather generous.

>>63907919
Don't forget that the first strike is theoretically also the biggest, since you will be actively attempting to degrade enemy launch capacity from that point on

>>63907966
The nork shells are a one time thing, from here they will be limited to new build shells just like the Russians are
Speaking of which, I don't believe the Russians are at 3 million 152mm shells a year (maybe 3 million shells of all calibres), I doubt they are even beating Rheinmetalls 2 million at this point

>>63908233
Call me when BMW is making IFVs instead of cars and home appliance companies are making rifles instead of washing machines. People don't understand what a war economy is because we haven't done it since WW2. Russia is not in war economy, they are heading that way, Ukraine is probably is at this point. Europe and the US, not even close. Real War time production happens when you force consumer manufacturing to create war products.

>>63908246
Sure, but you fire more interceptors than missiles coming at you, and even with PK of 90% there's still good odds that nothing fired at you hits. Couple that with CIWS or something of the sort and even if you spend slightly more on interceptor fire; you're not spending another few billion and 6 years having to build a new aircraft carrier.

>>63908271
No one would sign up for WW3, the US would collapse long before reaching the amount of casualties Russia has. Its likely that the US can’t and won’t do another ground invasion ever again

>>63908313
That's what Hitler thought about Americans as well. He was wrong. Nobody wants to fight WW3 right now that's correct but Americans change on a dime, they'll go from peace loving hippies to blood thirsty war mongers overnight if the right propaganda pressure is applied. 9/11 is a good recent example of this. If the powers the be want a war, they'll get a war, and Gen Z will be lining up with smiles on their faces to fight and die. Its a story as old as time.

>>63908340
No, he thought that about the Soviet Union. And the soviets wouldn’t have survived if they were not a totalitarian dictatorship with no human rights either. Liberal democracies don’t work like that.

>>63907867
>American military experts
Yeah. Their job is to be alarmist on behalf of Lockheed Martin so that Congress approves them another 30 billion dollar check for things that are 30 years ahead of our nearest peer.

>>63908313
Literally everyone who has ever fought us and subsequently gotten their shit kicked in has thought that exact same thing. IDK why it keeps happening again and again and again; you'd think everyone would've learned by now.
>they're weak and divided and cowardly and only care about money
>they won't do shit!
>t. Spanish Empire, Qing China, German Empire, Mexico, Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, Communist China, Saddam Hussien, al-Qaeda
There are others but that is off the top of my head

>>63908367
The US was isolationist up until Pearl harbor then they did a complete 180, Hitler did not believe the US would or could fight a prolonged war, he was wrong. America's are no different then any other people, they will follow the herd like good sheep. When the herd is pro war, they will be pro war, they just need a push to be sent in that direction.

>>63908393
You the ones that were exactly right and won on these grounds
>Vietnam, the Taliban, Communist China in Korea, Cuba

>>63908273
that's where cost versus benefit comes into it. something like a carrier, is worth defending, and if your defensive missiles can also be used offensively, then it's all good.

and the enemy can just send twice as much if you send two per incoming, since the cost for both is around the same. so defending most targets isn't worth the cost.

ukraine let it known they sent 12-32 pac-2/3 per kinzhal. that's 48-128 million (low end using only pac-2) versus 10 million. in a peer war, the latter wins.

>>63908224
magically, of course

>>63908455
>communist china in korea
they didn't though, they lost lol.

>>63908455
Vietnam would probably the only matbe here, the rest weren't on those grounds at all

>>63908145
Even Norktard wouldn't make such absurd claims. But you retards clearly know better.

>>63908246
You're right but there's a reason we are not dumping massive amounts of money into trying to make hundreds of thousands of interceptors. You need enough of them to weaken a first strike substantially enough to the point that your enemy now has to rely on LEO satellites to come back around to even see what kind of damage they did and you have time to disperse before then. Interceptors are understood to be used for blunting these initial couple of strikes and after that they are mainly just intended to defend from occasional single digit strikes on somewhat important but not massively important sites like FOBs and what not

>>63908746
Meanwhile america lost its stockpile and is starting a civil war. Iran won this one.

>>63908779
Sounds like cope considering America has no answer to Iranian hypersonics.

>>63908851
Yeah, because those do not exist. Why USA would need defence against iranian hopes and dreams?

>>63908845
>Iran won this one.
Post living generals
Post unatomized nuclear scientists
Post uncucked AD
Post uninfiltrated command structure
Post contested Iranian airspace
Post uranium enrichment facilities
Post ballistic missiles with non-zipcode sized CEP
Post Russian military assistance
Post modern artillery
Post unevacuated capital
Post uncratered state news station
Post Hezbollah
Post Assad
Post any Sinwar
Post Axis of Resistance
>>63908851
>muh hypersonics
Cope, pidor
newsweek.com/putin-kh-47-dagger-kinzhal-missiles-losing-edge-1863976

>>63908845
Weak bait.

>>63908692
>Join the war when USA practically had the Koreas united
>Manage to roll it back to roughly the prewar state
Both sides failed their extended objectives and honestly it was more the UN favor overall, but the sole reason why there are two Koreas is down to the USA not willing to commit itself to the war.
>>63908711
They were all fighting assuming at some point it would take too much effort to take them down.

>>63908944
> the USA not willing to commit itself to the war.
You mean the USA not willing to start WW3

>>63909048
Are we talking about Korea, Ukraine, or Taiwan?

>>63909061
Korea

>>63909048
>You mean the USA not willing to start WW3
Exactly. Fucking pussies.We could have had glorious incineration of tens of millions in the furnaces of nuclear armageddon
-t. respectable bipartidan

>>63907856 (OP)
We still have more capability than anyone else.

>>63908216
Considering absolutely nothing those missles were targeting is of any value to the US, I doubt it.

>>63907966
>>63907986
You mean the shells that the russian artillerymen say are absolute dogshit?

>>63908944
>north korea attacks south korea
US absolutely obliterates them and secures it's victory to secure the parallel
>china wastes an entire generation of soldiers meant for taiwan trying to expel them from the peninsula
>fail, and take greater losses, deny the US the cherry on top that is securing north korea
>north korea ends up with significantly less land than it had originally
WEW

missile production in general. these things should cost 100x less and produces 100x more.

>>63908004
A country that's dumping double digit percent of GDP into their military is outproducing countries that can barely do 2% of GDP? Wow, I am now convinced that puccia is actually very strong and hohols must surrender to protect europe from mighty poutine.

>>63909431
So why are impotent US puppet states with non-existent militaries such rabid warmongers?

>>63908233
The break even point for a single Arleigh Burke Flight III would be if it took more than 125 SM-3s to defend it. (That's of course discounting the loss of human life, the opportunity costs incurred by having to build a replacement ship, and the potential consequences that losing a major surface combatant might have in a war)

>>63908455
>Cuba
Wut?

>>63908851
Lol.

>>63907856 (OP)
Just-in-time economy doing its evil deed once again.
Just-in-time loses wars. See Russia.

>>63908851
I know this is b8 but it is genuinely funny how little most people understand about ballistic missiles. You'd think they're wonder weapons that make every platform on earth obsolete given the shit people say about them

>>63909843
as an avid fan of rocketry it's amazing how many people don't actually know that most of these thirdie cope missiles aren't even hypersonic during the part of their flight where it's actually supposed to matter, which is the terminal stage.

>>63909524
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

>>63909857
You mean the one that failed because Kennedy refused to employ any direct American support? Because I think the total number of US military personnel who took part were eight volunteers from the Alabama ANG flying surplus B-26s and the fifty or so crewmen manning a pair of WWII landing ships, compared to the 1,500 anti-Castro Cuban exiles who took part. Saying any of that was a big defeat for the US is a bit of a stretch.

>>63907905
Hopefully it's only because the Euros cant stop squabbling with each other. It's concerning when "we can ramp up" is the only answer for our own unpreparedness. We don't have the industrial capacity and labor force of WW2 anymore.