how do you counter this
hard mode: no modern systems

A slightly larger drone swarm

>>63912613 (OP)
>no modern systems
Forest fire between you and the swarm

>>63912613 (OP)
Flak and auto-canons.

>>63912613 (OP)
By blowing up whatever AIslop server you've used to generate this.

>>63912613 (OP)
5 inchers

This does not exist.

>>63912627
forgot to specify, but this is AA information from the US Navy in the Pacific against Japanese aerial attacks

>>63912613 (OP)
By destroying the cables connecting the Third World to the internet, thus eliminating AI slop overnight.

>>63912613 (OP)
> ai
Retard
You need operators to use drones
You need a hundred operators to use the swarm on your picture

Well the munitions they carry aren't very large and they are all incredibly venurable to flak and point defence.

Allies forces have always had apc with autocannon to protect against ssl. Sure they're still a menace but like mortars it's an issue for infantry in static positions

Turn 360 and walk away

>>63912640
>You need operators to use drones
Not for long.
AI. Yes AI.

Dudes will just be EMPing eachother. Somehow.

>>63912640
When will the swarm drones actually become autonomous swarms of drones?

>>63912711
No ai is shit for this kind of tasks.

>>63912613 (OP)
send a virus to starlink HQ, and shut off your own towers.

>>63912613 (OP)
High power microwave weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZEv1x3KQ0w

>>63912992
OP said no modern systems
but microwaves and radars existed since ww2?

>>63913000
OP is a butthurt thirdie. The Western MIC is going to use modern systems while he cries about it.

>>63912640
>>63912880
The current Western standard isn't a fully autonomous swarm or a 1 man to 1 drone ratio. It's one man commanding several hundred drones and it was achieved in the 2010s. DARPA is thinking about swarms of up to a million but those are theory for now.

>>63913028
You should stop playing dumb videogames

>>63912613 (OP)
Assault Blankets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_99_TQzhHI

>>63913000
Drones are a modern system themselves. Stuff like this has been around longer than drones so does it count as modern.?

>>63912627
Throw in one of these puppies and you’re good to go

>>63912613 (OP)

>large swarms of flying objects

time to go old school

>>63913031
You should stop projecting and learn about mature technology.

>>63913055
You don't even need RADAR, the max altitude and engagement range of drones means you can just eyeball it.

>>63913077
Eyeballing range is really hard. Even in cases where it should’ve been “easy” to calculate like V1 rockets moving at ~constant speed, the SCR-584 boosted hit rates by a gajillion %.

Dr Kott on the ultimate future of swarm warfare (2017): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ0HqNTIdhI

Offensive swarm enabled tactics conclusion (2021): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W34NPbGkLGI

>>63913039
Fear the jeets

>>63913065
>its le magic
Though so.
Tell me when ai can distinguish your troops in multicam and covered in dirt against enemy troops in multicam and covered in dirt, between your tanks covered in cope cages against enemy tanks covered in cope cages, when it will have cheap cameras with enough resolution and processing power to notice bush moving for a second and have intuition to look in the well.

>>63913129
Manet radios are a decade old or more retard. YOLO is 2015 technology.

>>63913140
>he thinks he can rely on this shit in a real war
Absolutely unteachable.

>>63912613 (OP)
Autoshotguns, next question.

>>63912613 (OP)
What's the cutoff point? Gepard probably

>>63913156
Why do you think the human is in the loop retard? The drones alert him every time their ATR lights up with a spot report and screenshot and he checks that stream and does the final decision.

This was old when I was in college. You're a nuke denier.

>>63912613 (OP)
You don't need to counter because it turns out that they are inferior to legacy systems like Javlin or Hellfire or the guided 155mm

The drone hype is the product of selection bias. You see videos of successful strikes and thus think all strikes are successful. What you don't see is the vids of the other 30 drones they launched that day that acheived nothing.

>get drone hunter
>get killstealed

>>63913270
That's how it works, right? Just a strict linear scale of better to worse? No regard for cost, versatility, risk in deployment? Yeah no shit a Hellfire has a higher PK, but a drone can do a lot more things than a dedicated missile

big nets

>>63913311
We had a whole thread on it the other day. FPV drones are just a poor mans javelin.

>>63913316
Yeah I was in that thread. Let me know when they come out with a Javelin I can use to scout

>>63913330
I am clearly and obviously talking about single-use FPV's you shitbag.

>>63913340
Yes, so am I.

>>63912613 (OP)
>No modern systems
Sounds fair.

be fifty thousand feet in the air dropping bombs

>>63913316
To be fair to the dronetards FPVs offer NLOS ability when they're working, which only a few ATGMs like MBDA's Akeron do.

>>63913311
We do have reports of drones being good for specific drone things an ATGM or mortar wouldn't be good at; but Ukrainian statistics report them as less than 10% of engagements.

Dronemaxxing isn't an economically or logistically good strategy. It's what the Ukrainians do because they're short of everything else. A good western appraoch would probably look like what the American military is doing (though their bureaucratic implementation is poor): VTOL fixed-wing spotter drones at battalion level searching the area for the artillery and a few kamikaze drones at the platoon level to help infantry.

>>63912613 (OP)
EMP

GG no re

>>63914223
point to a real life EMP device

>>63914230
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

>>63914230
Real life EMP is called HPM: https://www.epirusinc.com/

>>63913330
5 years ago

>>63912711
>AI. Yes AI.
"AI" might as well be magic given the way it gets thrown around these days.

>>63914241
ya cool i watched oceans 11 too

>>63912613 (OP)
GPS spoofing. EZ

>>63914258
>cheap, abundant loitering munition
:(
>expensive, limited loitering munition
:)

>>63912613 (OP)
I bait all of /k/ to sign up for my army with the promise of a free AA20 they get to keep after their service, including life-long free ammo.
I then hope most of them die so I don't have to spend that much money on ammo ofc.

>>63912613 (OP)

>>63912613 (OP)
microwave oven with pencil jammed in door switch attached to an alti azimuth mount. (remove door, duh)

>>63912613 (OP)
Go inside.

>>63914354
it used to be a common prank to jam the door switch on a microwave, leave the door open, and throw a tiny piece of metal like a paperclip in there, and start it for the max mount of time like 59:59 and people would be scared to go turn it off and have to go the breaker panel. I dont know how far away they are dangerous with the door open tho...

>>63914382
why the fuck would you do that

>>63914435
Do you understand the true meaning of Vandals?

>>63914319
Look, you asked for a Javelin that can scout.

>>63914319
Unironically yes according to the recommendations of westerners who fought in Ukraine for western armies about drones.

>>63914334
drone can easily dodge shotguns try again

>>63912613 (OP)
No moder systems for a modern threat, that's not hard mode, that's trying your hardest to make it a legitimate threat mode.

Anyone without a ship should grab a gun and fire wildly into the sky

I feel like a lot of the issues with swarm control are extremely solvable. Even without good AI, you can just have the whole swarm move to a waypoint and then just land or hover in place or something, and have human operators attack with one drone at a time.

And shotguns are a meme for anti-drone combat. They’re not great for normal combat, especially when loaded with birdshot, so you either have some soldiers hanging around who aren’t actually going to be of much use in a fight, or you weigh people down with 2 separate long guns and all their ammo and stuff. Drones also often kill when you aren’t paying much attention, and even if you are, a drone moving at even 60 kph will cross shotgun range in like 3 seconds, giving you very little time to draw, aim, and fire accurately.

>>63914875
You could also have a few drones with laser designators, and then have a bunch of autonomous drones in waiting mode behind them. When you see a target, you toggle one autonomous drone into pitbull mode and designate a target with a laser.

>>63912613 (OP)
quadcopters have like a range of 20 miles. you just maneuver around them.

>>63913297
>Go find your own target, Fox!

>>63914217
>To be fair to the dronetards FPVs offer NLOS ability when they're working, which only a few ATGMs like MBDA's Akeron do.
but there are better ways of engaging in indirect fires. A recon drone and a howitzer > FPV.

If you read that humungous article (Wapo or NYT i cant remember) about the joint NATO-AU command post. They spill a lot of ink about the importance of NATO intel directing M712 Copperhead strikes on individual tanks.

>>63912613 (OP)
You don't need to, they'll run out of spectrum and most of them will crash.

>>63914259
This kind of shit is how many people in charge of serious companies behave, which is fucking scary because it reveals they have been sub-average IQ retards all along.

>>63912613 (OP)
There are no modern systems that can counter that

>>63912711
/k/ is absolutely brimming with coping boomers that like to pretend like their dearly-purchased weapon systems are still relevant in a peer conflict.

Drones with native AI targeting software are like 3-5 years away. No connection to humans, no need for GPS either. In this type of conflict, those who own the drone factories win the war.

>>63912613 (OP)
hide in a bunker for an hour until they run out of batteries. Same way we dealt with artillery for 150 years.

>>63913129
>Tell me when ai can distinguish between your tanks covered in cope cages against enemy tanks covered in cope cages
1998

>>63915801
Correction:
1987

>>63913156
Lemme guess:
>Real war
Whatever conflict the multipolars are shitting the bed at
>Not a real war
Any war that any Western nation has ever fought, win lose or draw

Wonder how a big ass pump, and several fire hoses with motorized mounts would do for drone point defense? Just thinking you could put up a pretty good wall of water and also disrupt visuals…. And that tech has been around for a long time…. Your on the defensive in point defense, but you have the time to play to your strengths…. Of course I also think fire hoses mounted on saltwater proof robotic arms would be a great pirate defense for containerships…. If anyone gets pissy about defensive weaponry just point out it’s firefighting equipment.. the amount of water a 2 or 3 inch hose can put out with pump pressure behind it is pretty wild, and provided you have a large enough supply then you don’t have to reload or worry about barrels overheating, or even aiming all that precisely since you just hose it on the target…. Even if it was a cone spread I wonder how well those drones work when trying to fly through an extreme amount of heavy rain? The flying wing ones would probably be able to cope somewhat, but I doubt the quadcopters (at least the hobby level ones) would be able to function well…

>>63912613 (OP)
emp? Make the entire battlefield a deadzone and fight like its ww1 again. idk shits cooked

>>63913162
Need a Conference Call to get the job done

>>63914380
imagine nano drones that just explode in your ear canal

>>63912613 (OP)
belt fed full auto 12ga

>>63915970
Harden the building… entryways get grated floor and a big ass fan aimed down…. Electrified filters for air changes in hvac…. Keep those little shits out.

I simply comply with and submit to whatever regime is using the drone swarm, there is no way to win.

tungsten bolo with ripple energy

>>63912613 (OP)
>hard mode: no modern systems
holy ESL

>>63915884
I've been wondering about similar sorts of things (weird military uses for high pressure water, assuming you had infinite water etc) for a while now. I can normally reason and calculate my way through the practicability of even pretty weird shit bit by bit, but I haven't even been able to work out where to start with most of the water stuff. For instance, what's the most water a given AShM can fly through without failure and how does it vary by water concentration (ie if half the volume of air is water and it can do, say 10 meters, then what's the expected distance for 25, 33, 66 and 75% concentrations)? How do pressurised, fast-moving or turbulent bodies of water interact with EFPs and shaped charges? How heavily pressurised must water be and what volume do you need to cause the failure or premature detonation of different types of land mines? Weird shit like that.

>>63916182
unmanned sea drones would've already taken out that ship

>>63916170
Worth wondering how it affects visual sensors.. I imagine flir and thermal is probably pretty hard to use through dense rain, and visual is probably impossible, also gotta keep the lens clear… so if you had some kind of fancy ai targeting system then it might get rendered inneffective…. GPS would still work of course.. I imagine for attacking something like a building from the drone side of things the best course of action might be counterintuitive… if they’re defending it with high pressure water then fly above it to the best altitude you can get and then hard accelerate straight down with as many drones at once as you can spare.. you might manage to negate the spray and any non direct hits by just ballistically powering through it.. on the other side of things.. I wonder if you inject glitter or other fine metal into the water if you can essentially make an area of high density chaff to screw up radar? I’d imagine lidar and other laser targeting systems wouldn’t do great through a misty wet area due to moisture screwing up the light…. Also on the defensive side imagine how much water you can put up (again provided you have a big enough source to draw from) with a pump that fills a shipping container feeding a couple of 4-5 inch lines running to nozzles on something like a automotive assembly robot being controlled with a joystick? It would be an easy target for someone with an rpg, but a drone swarm might have a tougher time..

>>63912613 (OP)
Breath of the dragon, brother.

>>63912613 (OP)
Tactival nuke.

AIR-2 Genie

>>63912613 (OP)
Flamethrowers

>>63915626
So winning a war is as easy as preemptively clapping a few drone factories with long-range bombers? Cool.

>>63916197
My highly-trained laser dolphins would have made scrap metal out of your sea drones.

>>63912613 (OP)
Nooks ooks

>>63912613 (OP)
a flock of trained eagles

>>63912613 (OP)
bofors and flak.

>>63912613 (OP)

>>63912613 (OP)

>>63912613 (OP)
Wouldn't chaff fuck em up pretty bad?

>>63912613 (OP)
BRRT gun

>>63915587
The biggest casualty of the internet age has been the illusion of meritocracy. The simple truth is that everyone who has ever held major power has been retarded for virtually as long as humanity has existed.

The people calling the shots don't know what they're doing.

>>63915626
>Drones with native AI targeting software are like 3-5 years away.
Yes, but how novel and reliable is this software?
We could do "AI targeting" since the fucking 90s. The fucking Javelin uses "AI targeting" to find the tank it's supposed to blow up. The fucking Sidewinder from the 50s uses sophisticated "AI targeting".
AI is a marketing term. It's a scam.

>>63912613 (OP)
Cardboard cutouts with soldiers painted on them. Maybe some hand warmers too if they've got IR.

You can't control drone swarms by radio, there's too many drones and not enough channels. This means the drones have to be autonomous and need to be AI driven. Guess what AI is bad at.

>>63921363
You'd need a lot of it and it has to be up and inside the swarm. Still, it couldn't hurt as long as you're not using radar guided AA.

>>63921382
That's not quite true. There have been many periods in human history of relatively competent people in charge. Not perfect or even great, but several steps above what we have currently. The boomers and their brown-socialist replacements are a low point in the cycle.

>>63921397
It's a marketing term if you're a zoomer who never learned pre-AI computing concepts lol. The Javelin is not using ATR trained on a target library. Nor is the Sidewinder.

>>63921406
>You can't control drone swarms by radio
Maybe *you* can't but the western MIC has been doing 500-drone swarms for over a decade. Physical drones of multiple types in outdoors test sites, not a simulation.

>>63921519
>The Javelin is not using ATR trained on a target library
No, but in practice a tank only looks like a tank on IR.

>pre-AI computing concepts
So-called AI is tech from the 60s. Image recognition has been a thing for nearly as long as computer-connected cameras.

>>63921519
>There have been many periods in human history of relatively competent people in charge.
Like who?

>>63912613 (OP)
>>63912613 (OP)

Belt fed mounted auto shotgun shooting hot load bird shot.

Why people think we need to invent some magic end all, just Redneck it and be in awe.

Hell put two side by side and just yeet at the things.

For the bigger ones just scale up the shotguns and add some radar tracking, if it could stop a WW2 era bomber guided by methed up Germans, pretty sure we can yeet some shrapnel

>>63921519
>Maybe *you* can't but the western MIC has been doing 500-drone swarms for over a decade.
Actually, we don't. We're using preprogramed routines and advanced targeting algorithms. It only looks like we're directly controlling the drones because we're just that good at programming.

>>63921669
Me and your mom, at tonagra
Shaka, when her skirt fell

>>63912613 (OP)
>RC based drones
basic jamming will do the job. most non-joke militaries have this technology.

>>63915626
>missiles your factories
>have AI powered auto-targeting-shotguns mounted on every vehicle
Now what?

>Nukes the center and the EMP takes out anything not caught in the blast

>>63919452
Seaglider naval mines can swim to any seaport in the world and they are silent, can wait on standby for years and can receive orders via satlink or underwater microphone.

Seaglider is a torpedo shaped glider underwater drone that switches between positive and negative bouyancy via a swim bladder.

>>63912613 (OP)
Voting Democrat.

>>63921669
Pick anywhere, anytime. Nip shogunates, Romans, Greeks, periods of English history, even America. EIC is a textbook favorite.

FDR made mistakes, was surrounded by commies, probably was one, certainly wasn't perfect, but he was competent and chose some famously competent people to work for him.


>>63921742
It's been tried. It doesn't work. The cheapest jank uses a GPMG for range and ke.

>>63921746
Tip: swarm may be slop to you, but in the MIC it's a specific definition which excludes your claim.

>>63923082
I think "relatively" is doing some extremely heavy lifting here...

>>63912711
so called "ai" aint a magic button you absolute mouth breather. its nothing more then sophisticated algorithms that aid in targeting but cant replace a flesh and blood operator in initiative, target recognition or situational awareness

>>63913270
>>63913316
we had a thread about it alright. a javelin cant compete with an fpv drone with bang for buck you moron. cheap swarm spam has its place complementing javelins, not replacing them

>>63924559
>cant replace a flesh
Can, and will.

>>63912613 (OP)

>>63912613 (OP)
punt guns

>>63922026
Anon and anon at /k/ thread >>63912613 (OP)

>>63912613 (OP)
With cope cages: https://www.twz.com/land/army-wants-new-armor-to-protect-from-overhead-drone-attacks-on-its-tracked-vehicles

>>63912613 (OP)
10s of 1000s of balloons tethered with fine fishing line