>To better protect its armor from top-down attacks by drones and, to a lesser extent, anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM), the U.S. Army wants to buy more than 1,500 passive Top Attack Protection (TAP) add-on armor systems for its tracked combat vehicles. The systems are designed to protect the top of vehicles, where there is less armor protection, from overhead attacks. The request for TAP systems in the Army’s Fiscal Year 2026 budget plan comes as Ukrainian, Russian and Israeli armored vehicles have proven especially vulnerable to attacks by loitering munitions, drone bombers, and first-person view (FPV) drones that transformed the nature of modern warfare.
>The budget announcement comes after many have raised the alarm that the U.S. is not moving fast enough to adapt its armor capabilities and tactics based on lessons learned from the war in Ukraine. This is especially so when it comes to adding overhead protection for its highest-risk armored vehicles — those that will likely be at the forward edge of a future ground battle.
>“Currently, there are no tanks in the world, to include the M1 Abrams, that have the effective passive armor protection needed to defeat modern top attack threats,” retired Army Maj. Michael Liscano Jr., a former Abrams Tank and Bradley Fighting Vehicle Capability Manager, told us. “Future next generation tanks are being designed with this protection along with active protection systems, such as the M1E3 for the United States Army, but for now you will see top turret mounted cope cages, top turret mounted multilayer explosive reactive tiles, and armor plates on top of the turret, and other methods to reduce damage of top attack systems.”
When will /k/ apologize for making fun of Chile cages?:
https://www.twz.com/land/army-wants-new-armor-to-protect-from-overhead-drone-attacks-on-its-tracked-vehicles

>>63926021 (OP)
>All of a sudden it becomes the freedom cage

Is Cope-Cage really an official term now?

>>63926040
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-drone_mesh
>commonly nicknamed "barbecues" or "mangals"[a] in Russian and Ukrainian or "cope cages" in English[1]
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/10/16/cope-cages-come-to-israel-as-idf-tanks-get-extra-drone-armor/

Cope cage, Japan

>>63926036
I think I am reading "cope cage" there bud
The distinction is this is against drones, not against javelins and EFP charges as russians initially intended when they started this retarded war against Ukraine
That's why it was so hunerous - these cages might protect agaibst drone drops and kamikaze drones but rhe effecticesness against javelins and the like is so bad that it was referred to as "cope cage" because in context with javelins ot's just a mental cope, not a safe and effective countermeasure

>>63926060
>not against javelins and EFP charges as russians initially intended
according to whom? some guy on telegram? the javelin thing was just a guess at their purpose.

>>63926021 (OP)
>When will /k/ apologize for making fun of Chile cages?:
No way homo. Everyone here remembers when they were billed as Javelin-proof armor prior to the war by vatniks, until 2022 when T-72/T-90s fitted with them were blown to shit by Javelins and NLAWs without even slight difficulty.
Also, Ukrainian cope cages for the Abrams and L2 are clearly better designed than the dogshit employed by Russians. They're clearly designed against the drone threat and protect a greater surface area, don't massively expand the tank's visible profile, and don't obstruct key turret equipment like optics and smoke launchers.
Something the US Army should really pick up from the Ukrainians is putting ERA on the upper frontal hull armor, since a standardized mounting solution can be devised pretty much immediately.

Are these just supposed to prevent dropping grenades into open hatches or actually stop shaped charges?

>>63926071
Do we have to do it again for the 1000th time, pidor?

>>63926093
You can't rewrite history Mykola

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slat_armor#Top-mounting

>>63926060
You will never be able to memory hole this, retard. lol

How much is it going to cost for Pentagon? $1M/piece? $2M? Make your bets.

>>63926071
>the javelin thing was just a guess
Drones only started being used in 2023, pidorashka. Rutard cope cages were installed on the first week of the invasion, after the first batches of T-90s were blown up by NLAWs and Javelins.

>>63926211
Reminder, vatniks always project.

>>63926060
Bro both a javelin and a drone use EFPs to penetrate the armor, and against both spaced armor works wonders since the EFP disperses rapidly in air.
The spaced armor does not need to be solid, a lightweight cage is perfectly effective.
If you have ABSOLUTELY no fucking clue what you're on about you could always opt to just not post.

>>63926211
>>63926071
Fuck off faggot.
>>63926276
Holy kek this one has the cope bucket too. I was gonna dig through the archives myself to find examples but you beat me to it.

>>63926194
It's too protect them against Chinese HJ-12s

>>63926282
>both a javelin and a drone use EFPs
>EFPs rapidly disperse in air
Incredible how one can be so aggressively confident yet also completely wrong at the same time.

and now the west is doing it it is a brilliance

>slat armor and anti-drop mesh is "cope" now
Zisters project as they breathe.

>>63926194
>Are these just supposed to prevent dropping grenades into open hatches
They're meant to stop someone from stuffing grenades into the various holes on a tank and increase the standoff distance for munitions. Worth noting is that this idea is literally as old as armored vehicles; the oldest siege engines we have depictions of had roofs to stop defenders from attacking them from above and the wiki page for slat armor shows a ca. 1916 photo of a Mk.1 with a chicken wire grenade shield. It seems like a new idea because situations where someone might actually run up to a tank/IFV/etc. and pitch in a grenade are incredibly rare overall.

>or actually stop shaped charges?
Depends on the size and sophistication of the charge. Against something large or an EFP? Functionally a placebo. Against something smaller or a traditional shaped charge? Depends. For anti-personnel applications or just basic HE where the target would be electronics or the crew and lacking actual anti-armor capabilities then they work relatively well. Against an actual anti-armor munition like a dropped RPG the odds aren't good but compared to taking a direct hit it's a massive improvement.

tl;dr: Excellent against dropped grenades, good against anti-personnel drones, iffy against dropped RPGs or larger shaped charges, worthless against Javelins/artillery/heavy drones/etc.

>>63926282
Do you not know the difference between an EFP and a shaped charge?

>>63926021 (OP)
>cope cage-like armor
kill journos, behead journos, etc..

>>63926275
>Rutard cope cages were installed on the first week of the invasion,
Incorrect.
Both cope cages and the term itself predate the invasion of ukraine by quite a bit, pic related is atleast from July 2021, see: https://blog.vantagepointnorth.net/2021/07/death-from-above-russian-ad-hoc-top.html?m=1
This
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/50456288/#50456362
is, I think, the first mention of cope cages in the archive.

Afaik there is no good and reliable source as to wether or not they were intended to defeat top-attack munitions.
To be clear, I dont consider thirdies on /k/ spamming praise for russian smellkaka and claiming the evil hate globohomo will fall in 2 weeks as the best source.
They have some validity as to what the average roto-cube might think but that is a bit circumspect.

More likely than not they were supposed to protect against MAML
Javelin is a suicide weapon so it's not that important to invent things to protect against it.

>>63926021 (OP)
Is there even proof that these things work? I guess it doesn't matter, various retards already running around claiming that glorious Ruzzia invented this regardless of how effective the Russian ones were vs the Western ones.

It's like the space race cope again.

>>63926725
They work against drones, but probably have little to no effect against any type of guided missile. This shit is to stop drones from just dropping a grenade on top of the tank and fucking up an inordinate amount of shit, something (relatively) easily rectified with cage armor. It works against RPG-7 warheads aswell, mostly by fucking up the shaped charge before the contact fuse can go off.

These field modifications are crude (still much nicer than russian shit) and almost 100% had no engineer looking at it to optimize size and spacing of mesh, different orientations, etc... This is why there is so much variation in regards to cage armor (cope cage or otherwise).

>>63926744
>>63926725
>>63926021 (OP)

Slat/cage armor has been a thing practically since the invention and proliferation of HEAT weapons. They are a great lightweight alternative to actual plate armor, as air works extremely well as armor against shaped charge warheads. With the commonality of the PG-7 warhead, its design has been taken into consideration for most modern slat armor designs.

It could also allow crew to leave their hatches open when not in front-line positions without having to worry too much about a curious little drone finding them and plopping a grenade straight down the hatch. If it goes off above the tank (even with the hatch open) much of the damage would be mitigated, at least for non T64-esque auto loading tanks.

>>63926021 (OP)
I feel another point (at least for pic rel) isnt to stop the warhead, but to make it go off prematurely, duh. What I mean is that the warhead of an RPG-7 going off on while touching the flat side of an M113 will fuck up alot more than just a copper jet piercing into the crew compartment. Yes, casualties will result, but some of the crew could be lucky, and fatal casualties could be instead turned into severe, but non-mortal wounds. Many videos from Ukraine have shown that a HEAT warhead going off inside a vehicle isnt necessarily a lethal blow, and if it doesnt hit anything critical (Ammo, electrics, mechanical shit, or people) the damage is oftentimes a non-mission kill and necessitates multiple follow up shots.

This is true for the M1 Abrams, as the ammo is mostly localized to protected areas isolated from crew, but if the crew compartment itself is penetrated by a warhead, that is a potentially much bigger problem that having to use the blowout panels for what they were designed for.

>TLDR, it is better to have a jet of copper going through your AFV than having to worry about the former and potential spalling from the actual explosives forming the jet.

>>63926725
>Is there even proof that these things work?
It's the current META, premium option, the best thing since sliced bride

>>63926021 (OP)
The joke was never that it was a bad idea, it's not, the joke was russia putting tyres on their vans for another failed meat wave assault

>>63926071
you may cope now

>the same conversation again
There is no fucking way you are getting enough standoff from a cope cage to actually disperse the jet enough. Slat armor exclusively works against point-fuzed weapons i.e. all PG-7 variants, but when drone mounted they are modified to use the contact wires instead, effectively creating full-frontal fuzing.

There is, to date, not a single explanation of how a cope cage is supposed to work against shaped charges because they straight up do not work. "Barn tanks" work because the barn makes it harder to aim against vehicle vitals.

>>63927070
So what's the point of cope cage, either western or russian, again? If the enemy see a tank with cope cage, they will just send a drone with appropriate ammuniation.

>>63926021 (OP)
jesus christ cope cages were against javelins and top attack rpgs NOT drones or HEAT you absolute buffoons

>>63926045
kek

>>63926511
cope cages became a thing after chechens BTFO'd tanks during the grozny war by shooting from bulidings

jesus fucking christ how NEW is this board
KICK OUT ALL WAR TOURISTS NOW

>>63927105
by shooting rpgs from buildings i guess that's what i get for not proofreading

>>63926463
Yeah, cope cages would have been a lot more useful in WW1 seeing as tanks would drive across trenches or dugouts full of people that can hide and then swarm the tank and the tanks had a top speed barely above a walking pace so they wouldn’t be able to escape.

>>63927079
Improvised armor is by and large pointless, and made at levels that don't understand how armor works. The TWZ article just discusses "Top-attack armor", there is no reason some actually functional ERA/NERA armor couldn't conceivably be made

>>63926787
>as air works extremely well as armor against shaped charge warheads
No. There is nowhere near enough standoff between the slat armor and the vehicle itself for it to contribute meaningfully towards protection.
The primary and only meaningful purpose of slat armor is to physically impede the ideal formation of the penetrating jet by crushing the warhead's cone.

>>63927105
>BTFO'd tanks during the grozny war
post 10 pics of russian military tanks with cope cages from the chechen wars

>>63926825
>the joke was russia putting tyres on their vans for another failed meat wave assault
This is copier than the cage itself. At least have the temerity to say you hounded the ghetto mesh and metal turrets from the start, they weren't called tire tents

>>63927232
yeah that's my point you ape, they didn't do it so they got btfoed

>>63926292
What is that a worse Javelin?
Why can't they test them on real tanks?

>>63926276
>>63926287
>cope bucket too.

The whole ensemble is called a Cope Pagoda.

>>63926021 (OP)
MAJ Liscano is a clown that was never good enough to make LTC.
Everything he does, including being the gay TikTok clown representative of the Armor School, is because of this fact.
The guy leaked prototype models on fucking twitter.

>>63927827
Had to do a doubletake and look at the hands to realize that's a real human bean and not a striking dummy.

This type has taken over now, but as a younger man I was hitting one that 100% had that dude's brow line, ears, and open mouth.

>>63926222
>you will never be able to memoryhole this, retard
correct, you will never be able to memoryhole that russia thought these were useful agains tandem attack munitions.

>>63927214
So is the US Army retarded for still wanting to try?

>>63927827
M1 Abrams prototype?

>>63927304
>>63926287
>cope bucket
What it suppose to do?

>>63928554
>What it suppose to do?
Tricking the heat seeker of incoming javelin's infrared seeker. It worked as well as you'd expect.

>>63928629
>Tricking the heat seeker
holy fucking kek

>>63927105
>became a thing after chechens BTFO'd tanks during the grozny war by shooting from bulidings
An argument which lacks any basis, if it where a response to grozny then why did they only implement "sunroofs" on tanks in 2021?, maybe 2019 at the earliest.
If you search the net for any combined mention of "кoзыpeк oт coлнцa"(sun visor) "Taнк"(Tank) "Гpoзный"(Grozny) or "Чeчня"(Chechnya) your not finding anything predating the Russo-Ukrainian War.
They were certainly not a result of the chechen wars.

What can be found are mentions about top-attack missiles, drones and other loitering munitions but all of those speculations by "experts" and netizens.
https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2021/11/27/14251483.shtml
>«Taкaя зaщитa нyжнa для бopьбы c aтaкaми нa тaнки cвepхy: пpoтивoкyмyлятивный экpaн дoлжeн зaщитить бpoню oт yдapoв cвepхy co cтopoны ПTPК Javelin или БПЛA Bayraktar», – пpeдпoлaгaeт yкpaинcкoe издaниe. Пpи этoм caмым yязвимым мecтoм T-72 нaзывaeтcя бaшня, «гдe caмaя тoнкaя бpoня».
>«Пpидyмaннoe poccийcкими вoeнными peшeниe нaпpaвлeнo пpoтив бoeпpипaca ceмeйcтвa MAM, кoтopыe oчeнь ycпeшнo ceбя зapeкoмeндoвaли в кaчecтвe yбийц тaнкoв и бpoнeтeхники в Кapaбaхe, Cиpии и Ливии», – пoдчepкивaeтcя в мaтepиaлe SavunmaSanayiST.com.

>“The solution invented by the Russian military is directed against the MAM family munition, which have proven themselves very successfully as killers of tanks and armored vehicles in Karabakh, Syria and Libya,” the SavunmaSanayiST.com piece stressed.
>“Such protection is needed to combat attacks on the tanks from above: the anti-shock shield should protect the armor from attacks from above by Javelin ATGMs or Bayraktar UAVs,” the Ukrainian publication suggests. At the same time, the most vulnerable point of the T-72 is the turret, "where the armor is the thinnest.

(1/2)

>>63927105
>>63928699
https://topwar.ru/184281-kozyrek-dlja-tanka-novoe-sredstvo-zaschity-t-72b3.html
>Этoт «кoзыpeк» нeoбхoдим для пoвышeния ypoвня зaщиты тaнкa oт yгpoз в вepхнeй пoлycфepe. Чacть coвpeмeнных пpoтивoтaнкoвых yпpaвляeмых paкeт и бappaжиpyющиe бoeпpипacы cтpeмятcя пopaзить бpoнeoбъeкт в нaимeнee зaщищeннyю пpoeкцию, т.e. cвepхy. Heoбычный «кoзыpeк» дoлжeн иcключить пpямoe пoпaдaниe бoeпpипaca в бaшню и тeм caмым peзкo cнизить вepoятнocть пopaжeния caмoгo тaнкa. Кaк имeннo oн ycтpoeн и пo кaким пpинципaм paбoтaeт – пoкa нe cooбщaлocь.
>Paнee Mинoбopoны или opгaнизaции oбopoннoй пpoмышлeннocти ничeгo нe cooбщaли o пepcпeктивнoм «кoзыpькe» для тaнкoв. Гoтoвoe издeлиe пyбличнo пpoдeмoнcтpиpoвaли тoлькo нecкoлькo днeй нaзaд, пpичeм cpaзy нa OБT oднoй из cтpoeвых чacтeй. Этo мoжeт oзнaчaть, чтo в нeдaвнeм пpoшлoм тaкoe издeлиe пpoшлo вce нeoбхoдимыe иcпытaния и былo пpинятo нa вoopyжeниe – в oбcтaнoвкe ceкpeтнocти.

>This “visor” is necessary to increase the level of protection of the tank against threats in the upper hemisphere. Some modern anti-tank guided missiles and barrage munitions seek to hit the armored object in the least protected projection, i.e. from above. The unusual “visor” should exclude a direct hit of a munition into the turret and thus drastically reduce the probability of hitting the tank itself. It has not yet been reported how exactly it is designed and on what principles it works.
>Previously, the Ministry of Defense or defense industry organizations have not reported anything about the promising “visor” for tanks. The finished product was publicly demonstrated only a few days ago, and immediately on an OPV of one of the combat units. This may mean that in the recent past such a product passed all the necessary tests and was adopted into service - in secrecy.

(2/3)

>>63928715
https://www.twz.com/43273/russian-t-80-tank-with-improvised-anti-drone-armor-reportedly-appears-in-crimea
>Regardless, it would seem Russia is almost certainly taking lessons from the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, when Azeri forces employed Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 drones armed with MAM-L precision-guided munitions, and other weapons to great effect against Armenian forces. Weapons like the MAM-L, or even smaller mortars and grenades, are unpowered but can have a devastating effect even on heavy armor, especially when employed in significant numbers.

As far as I can tell there was never an official russian statement but cope cages were most certainly a new development.

(3/3)

>>63926021 (OP)
What's next? Raytheon Tuttel-Tank® at a generous price of 20 million apiece?
Fuck this gay faggot timeline for ruining aesthetics

>>63926787
>air works extremely well as armor against shaped charge warheads,
does it?
>in their 1989 book ‘Fundamentals of Shaped Charges’, William Walters and Jonas Zukas provided a model for approximate jet performance at various levels of standoff
>assuming a 150 mm HEAT warhead, the penetration potential would decrease from 1,125 mm of RHAe to about 1,050 mm of RHAe after the jet has travelled 3.6 m through the air – a reduction of only around 7% at a distance far greater than any standoff likely to be encountered.
https://euro-sd.com/2024/06/articles/38841/the-most-misunderstood-weapon-in-the-world-mythbusting-heat-warheads-and-their-countermeasures/

>>63928791
>does it?
kind of?

It doesn't have much of an effect until it has a big effect. The distance needed is too big for any stand-off armor unless you want an XBOXHUEG tank that is mostly air.

As an example, at 3.6m standoff it lost 7% penetration. At 4m, it would have lost 14% At 5 meters, it would have been reduced by 50%. Now, I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, but this is only to show the exponential power of air at stopping the jet.

>>63926787
Slat armor can work in a few ways. Ideally the warhead will hit in a way that its damaged enough to not initiate at all. More likely it will damage the geometry of the charge before it detonates, so the jet doesn't form efficiently and its significantly less effective.

Least effective is just adding a less than ideal amount of standoff but this can make a difference for heavier armored vehicles. For lighter APC and whatnot it often isn't enough.

This means that the distance between the slats needs to be optimized for the weapons you're expected to encounter, and weapons with different fuzing systems will be mostly immune to slat armor. A cheap pg-7 with a single piezo in the nose is most vulnerable, but a sagger with a bunch in the ogive of the round will detonate as designed every time, and its much bigger to boot. The bent wire contact switch fuzing common on FPV drones will be mostly immune.

Note that the FPV fuzing increases the standoff beyond ideal but they still manage to toss turrets on the regular.

>>63928030
Who knows, maybe they'll invent some super-composite sandwich that provides 1 meter RHAe in a sunroof (they won't)

>you lived long enough to see the Cope Cage become the SneedFence

>>63926787
air does not work well vs shape charges. i think you are mixing this up with medium transition propagation disturbance or what its called.

Going air to water will do more beam disruption that an equal amount of homogenous material. thats the part of logic behind sandwich armor.

The working mechanism is to large part warhead deformation, not stand of detonation. thou a FPV could tumble too and thus trigger at a angle .

>>63928719
Yeah except i was alive at the time and i remember it. The picosecond they started to appear on mass in Ukraine i immediately remembered chechens doing that in grozny.
I'm not saying the cope cages were old, i'm saying using RPGs against roofs is an old idea.

>>63926021 (OP)
why not just make Drone tanks with no need to make armor for human occupants

>>63928280
Are you asking me if this model that was leaked in the 2020s, with passive and active defense systems, no turret crew hatches, is a model of the M1 Abrams prototype?

>>63929329
So the only thing cope cage will work against is just anti-personnel grenade? I don't see why Western countries would be making their own cages in that case.

>>63929776
Yeah, could be some kind of M1 modification. If not then what is it?

>>63929683
>immediately remembered chechens doing that in grozny
Yeah I doubt that. I think I would have found images of cope cages otherwise and while yes ,technically absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, that does speak volumes.
In the chechen war all we can se is ordinary ad-hoc slat armor, pic very much related.

>>63926021 (OP)
Wouldn’t reinforcing the top be a better idea?

>>63927079
These BMPs have such little armor that the pure HE component will fuck them up even with a spall liner (most Russian and Ukrainian vehicles do not use them)
A lot of drones nowadays are packing tonnage of pure HE, the copper jet is just a bonus for heavier armor

>>63926053
wtf I love cope cages now desu ne

>>63930119
I think the jet will punch through the light armor anyway. But yes, I can see it being able to increase the odd of survival for those lighter vehicles. OP pic has it on the abrams though. I'd assume at least it works against Russhits?

>>63931513
>OP pic has it on the abrams though. I'd assume at least it works against Russhits?
Maybe? It will certainly depend on the munition used against it but I doubt a field modification like that will have a huge benefit.

It is worth noting that there is nothing in the DoDs budget estimation for 2026 that suggest they want cope cages.
Just improved top armor as part of the BLI 6652GM1900 / VEHICLE PROTECTION SYSTEMS (VPS)
>GM1914) - VPS Top Attack Protection Top Attack Protection (TAP) is a passive add-on armor to the base vehicle configuration. It is strategically placed over crew compartments and hatches working in tandem with the base vehicle armor to mitigate damage from overhead threats. It is most effective against Explosively Formed Projectiles and Shaped Charge Jets. Top Attack Protection (TAP) is intended to be installed on all combat vehicles with future expansion to other US Army vehicle systems. The Top Attack Protection (TAP) quantity per platform varies based on platform base armor and crew compartment locations.

They also intend to procure both:
>SSN GM1911 / VPS MODULAR ACTIVE PROTECTION SYSTEMS W/LASER is a new start within the VEHICLE PROTECTION SYSTEMS (VPS) program in FY 2026
and
>SSN GM1912 / VPS SIGNATURE MANAGEMENT is a new start within the VEHICLE PROTECTION SYSTEMS (VPS) program in FY 2026
for it.

i refuse to let russia win by making everyone think cope cages were always for anti-drone use.

>pretending slat armor is a new thing just to be slightly aggravating.

>>63933210
>2012 Frogbox

Ukie BTRs had slat armor inna sandbox. Pic is from 2004 iirc

>>63933438
>>63933210
ahem....

>>63933438
>ukies fought for murrica
>murrica doesn't even want to send weapons to ukies
this is why the civilized world is fucked

>>63933459
Those are mounts for boxes, to bring more loot

>>63928554
In theory, it should throw off the thermal image of the tracker to a point further away from the tank, avoiding a direct hit from the missile. In practice it doesn't work like that at all.
As far as I understand, the CLU doesn't target the point with the highest thermal signal. It creates a thermal image of the target, i.e the whole vehicle, and calculates the center of mass of the thermal image, and when the missile is launched it updates that image every few ms as it reaches the target. Because the bucket is far from the center of the image and prob has an anomalous high signal (kinda like an outlier point in statistics), I bet it can be easily filtered.
pic related is a Belarussian attempt at the ideia, but russian similars have been spotted in the battlefield. It's mostly a dead trend, I haven't seen it since 2023 at least.

>>63933477
>murrica doesn't even want to send weapons to ukies

objectively false. we gave an entire south american countrys' military worth of aid.

>>63927086
>javelins aren't HEAT

>>63933567
>south american countrys
those aren't real militaries

>>63933616
basically every non 5-Eyes country doesn't have a real military.

>>63927225
Please explain this chart to me.

>>63926021 (OP)
>slat armor exists for decades
>ruskies see this and slap improvized armor which isn't specifically designed to damage or deflect even an RPG-7 round but might stop a mortar shell or nade dropped off a roof or window like in the Chechen war.
>ruskies get blown up by javelin and NLAW

And now shit which has existed forever is identical to random metal bars welded to a tank by drunk slavs. TOTAL JOURNO DEATH!

>>63933732
It certainly won't save them on the real battlefield but Russians sure are good at convincing people online that they are winning. There's no shortage of retards that will only read headlines and do no research whatsoever.

>>63926275
waggies don´t care anymore. lol

>>63926282
>Javelin uses EFP

anon I...

>>63933690
x axis is how far the HEAT warhead was from the target
y axis is penetration

>>63933690
it's ...not that difficult, anon. I'm not sure how else to explain. The dark is the area of the shaped plasma lance formed, showing how far in it goes based on how far the standoff distance is at moment of plasma formation.

>>63928554
It's slat armor for too attack munitions, it works by deforming the warhead so that it just explodes instead of forming the penetrating jet.

>>63934410
not sure if retarded or just relying to the wrong post.

The cope bucket is not for deforming warheads at all.

>>63934422
Anon learn how slat armor actually defeats incoming warheads.

>>63926511
A lot of the early cope cages had slats spaced so far apart you could drop a VOG through the gaps no problem. You know what they weren't too wide for? A 5-inch diameter Javelin missile.

>>63926053
I don't care who made it, that's a really shitty cope cage. It's just a fucking chainlink fence on stilts.

>>63934434
>Anon learn how slat armor
>cope bucket

cope bucket is not slat armor. Read the thread, or at least the post chain you're replying to.

>>63926282
>Bro both a javelin and a drone use EFPs
No they don't
>the EFP disperses rapidly in air.
No they don't.
I'm going to assume you meant the jet produced by a shaped charge, but even then... no, not really. Check out the shaped charge in picrel. The jet has about 50% greater penetration if it passes through 4ft of air before it reaches the armor versus if it detonates in contact with the armor. Even after 8ft of air it's still roughly half as effective as it would have been if it had gone off in direct contact.

>>63929798
Allegedly, the M1E3. It could also be a made-up design someone 3d printed as a desk toy.

>>63934462
That's all you need to keep drones from dropping grenades into the hatches, which is all you really need to do. It's like putting a Master lock on a fence. It won't do jack shit to stop someone that actually wants to get onto your property, but it will keep random wackos from just wandering in. Likewise, a cope cage can't stop artillery or ATGMs or real hotshot FPV aces, but it completely shuts off the possibility of a casual $50 grenade drop taking out your multi-million dollar tank.

>>63934599
>That's all you need to keep drones from dropping grenades into the hatches

>>63934599
>which is all you really need to do.
>it completely shuts off the possibility of a casual $50 grenade drop taking out your multi-million dollar tank.
these are about tree fiddy + tip

>>63934476
>cope cages are not slat armor

anon I...

>>63927827
>concept of an unmanned turret for the Abrams

This is not a prototype.

>>63934659
cope bucket
cope cage

these are not the same, anon. What is wrong with you? You have been conflating the two for multiple posts now. Did you not read the post chain like I advised you to? I'd ridicule you more but not its becoming a bother.

>>63934612
>>63934621
An anti tank mine dropped from a baba yaga is still a much higher bar to entry than dropping a 1 pound WW2 vintage hand grenade from from a chink children's toy. Forcing the enemy to commit to a much larger and more expensive drone that's much easier to identify and shoot down is a benefit, and one that can be achieved very easily by welding a section of chain link fence to the roof. Passive protection against a top attack shaped charge is far more difficult to accomplish, and those systems are more likely to be interdicted by active defenses anyway.

>>63934667
Trying to change the name isn't going to work.

>>63934704
they're two different things, and you, I'm sorry to tell you this, are retarded.

>>63934713
>they're two different things

Except they aren't.

>>63934702
>1 pound WW2 vintage hand grenade from from a chink children's toy
a tm62 is 10lbs with 8 of that being HE. You don't need a big drone to loft that at all unless you need the range at which baba yagas operate at.

ChatGPT tells me that RPG7 warheads are 4.4 to 9.9 lbs. That's your tank mine on a medium 800$ one-way drone going several KMs.

I won't argue that grenades are more accessible than tank mines, but it not need be a purpose made-tank mine. Any rigid container of that much HE will absolutely fuck up a tank.

>>63934717
>Except they aren't.
this is a cope bucket. It is filled with hot burning shit like wood, petrol, your mom's genital discharge, and affixed on a pole away from the body of a tank. The idea infrared seekers will go for the bucket and not the tank.

As you can see it is not cage-y at all, but works about as well.

>>63934758
There's still a big difference between being vulnerable to a weapon designed to penetrate the armor of a tank and a weapon that can't penetrate even the top armor. No matter how heavy your armor is, there's always going to be a weapon that can go through it. But it's fucking stupid to put 50 tons of armor on a tank and still have it be vulnerable to anti personnel weapons when a $10 section of chainlink fence can fix it.

>>63934781
>$10 section of chainlink fence can fix it.
that's where the thermite drops come in.

That's assuming the hatch is open. If its closed even the top armor will shrug off a grenade even without 10$ landscaping chickenwire.

>>63934758
>chatgpt producing erroneous data about easily checked info hits the midwits again
You'd have been better off with a standard search engine. That range is counting the booster/fins and rocket stage. You can go ahead and halve most of those weights.

Note that without a shaped charge that much raw HE would not even dent a tank.

>>63934793
Still a higher bar than a generic hand grenade. And yes, the cope cage is just for when the hatch is open, but the hatch isn't always closed.

>>63934803
>Still a higher bar than a generic hand grenade
You have redneck teenagers fucking around with thermite in Nowherseville, Flyover County. I doubt as many have access to live grenades.

Granted getting the fusing right would be tricky for them, but still easier than getting a working pineapple.

>>63934845
I don't get what you still don't understand about the idea that losing armor to weapons that can't penetrate them is worse than losing armor to weapons that can penetrate them. Especially when the the fix is practically free, in terms of money, in terms of engineering time, in terms of weight/ground loading, and in whatever other terms you choose. Consider what sort of costs and tradeoffs would be involved in making a tank completely proof against top attack shaped charges, and consider that even with an additional 1000mm RHAe on top, they'd STILL be vulnerable to a dropped hand grenade without a cope cage.

>>63934870
>the idea that losing armor to weapons that can't penetrate them is worse than losing armor to weapons that can penetrate them.
We're arguing about the accessibility of easy weapons that can go down a hatch, copecage or not.

>>63934877
Cope cages cover the hatch so things can't go in the hatch even when it's open. Yes, having some super spicy melty metal or acid or whatever splash into the hatch isn't a good thing, but that's a specialized weapon and still a much better alternative to having a bomb literally go off inside the tank.

>>63927225
So the charge going off too close to the target is also not ideal or what?

>>63936469
Yes, HEAT warheads are designed to blow up before they hit the target.

>>63927293
There are very few real modern tanks in china. Most are mockups or exist only on paper. They aren't going to let some rice farmer blow one up.

>>63926021 (OP)
that'll be 100k a piece

>>63926292
why can't the Chinese ever develop anything not based on something someone else has innovated?

>>63926060
Remember how the only people on Russia claiming it worked against javelins were anonymous Telegram faggots even though they had already used them in Armenia? Yeah.

>>63926275
>Drones only started being used in 2023
You dumb jit, drones have been used by both used during the whole war over the Donbass in the 2010s. And they were being used on the very firs day.

>>63929683
He means they used the cope cages so they wouldn't be hit by RPGs from up top like in Chechenya not that they were used in Chechenya. Both of you can't speak English.

>>63939175
doesn't matter, cope cages weren't built for drones.

>>63927070
It can work against RPG warheads if its done correctly.

>>63926282
>What is tandem charge?

>>63926402
No one even implied that, ranjeesh.

>>63926558
Namefags without fail are even fucking gayer and more stupid than tripfags.

>>63929789
They also work with regular ol' RPGs.

>>63926053
Small

>>63926558
>j-javelin is a suicide weapon
lol butthurt namefag.

>>63933477
No one put a gun to your head forcing you to send all 1,600 troops.

>>63933732
Hey, hey. It ain't journalists' fault this time. The whole circle jerk over cope cages and overly-repetitive shitposting about the retarded russians being retarded for years on end is 100% social media's fault. You can blame xitter, reddit and /k/ for this bullshit.

>>63926992
They also talk about protection from drones in that very same article though. And the Javelin bit is just speculation by the author.

>>63939196
No, they were built for RPG rounds and hand grenades, or at least thats what they can work against.

>>63933560
Now that they've captured enough javelins to experiment with, I wonder what they'll end up coming up with

More importantly, does Russia STILL not have an equivalent to the Javelin? Does China?

>>63939193
I remember AT squads of chechens attacking from the top of bulidings, but yeah, you worded it better than me.

>>63926036
Cage of America™

>>63939472
China has fielded a Javelin clone for 5 years in their line units. It was produced over a decade ago and has been exported to Algeria. HJ-12 Red Arrow.

Russia is still on the Kornet kek. Idk how many ATGMs Russia uses today, they seem to have used up most of their stock in 2023 and early 2024 and moved to a tank+lancet+FPV+rpg setup.

>>63939308
they were built for drones, since drone usage in warfare , including fpv drones was known since nagorno-karabakh, ukrainian 48-hour ato and isis.

>>63926060
>javelins and EFP charges as russians initially intended
>source: lazerpig and assorted eceleb twitter chunguses
Sure thing buddy.

>>63939193
Eh, my first point was that I didn't agree with the idea that cope cages were a result of the experience in the chechen war.
Partially because I can't find any image evidence of anything but classic slat armor, on hull and turret sides, and because the first images of cope cages I can find appeared a good 12 to 26 years respectively after the chechen wars.