What would be the use cases of 155mm artillery rounds and AIM-7 Sparrow missiles in a potential Pacific war?

>>63927879 (OP)
>AIM-7 Sparrow missiles
Naval assets invole air assets so that makes sense.
>arty shells
Fuckall.
But its probably in part an excuse to dicksuck Putin and butthurt over Ukraine not surrendering as wished so orange man could larp peacemaker.

Basically Putin won because he managed to install Trump. Its over. This is who beat us, a nation of drug addicted krokodil junkies

>>63927910
You lost half your bomber force weeks ago. You've lost a million men for a couple of hundred miles. You're win is as pathetic the cum/chug/gers.

>>63927899
>But its probably in part an excuse to dicksuck Putin and butthurt over Ukraine not surrendering as wished so orange man could larp peacemaker.
But it doesn't make sense. Ukraine agreed to a ceasefire, Russia wasn't interested even when Trump was ready to lift sanctions. What are they thinking actually?

>>63927879 (OP)
All of them apply to Tiawan, lets not pretend it's not useful for Tiawan while still recognizing this is a bullshit excuse to divert aid away from Ukraine.

>>63927879 (OP)
>Pacific
You mean Israel

>>63927879 (OP)
yes, this shouldn't even be a question

>>63927938
>Israel
This, few months ago US diverted APKWS rockets there that were supposed to go to Ukraine

Why not just make more weapons?

>Trump is not traito-

>>63927918
>it doesn't make sense
It does when you consider Trump is in charge. We've had 4 years of Trump being immensely retarded and disappointing almost everyone. Will you ever learn?

>>63927918
Who knows with the Quisling of Orange

>>63927918
>Ukraine agreed to a ceasefire,
But Monke wanted a surrender, and now his orange labrador is working on that.

>>63927977
>Trump is not traito-
Trump is ukrainian?

>>63927879 (OP)
What the actual fuck is this government doing?

>>63928075
Destroying its own soft power to own the libs.

>>63927879 (OP)
wait ukraine got hellfire missiles?

>>63928075
He's literally removing sanctions from russia

>>63928047
Whatever you think in your little bubble, the Russians are dead set on destroying the USA no matter what. So yeah, it does qualify as a traitor.

>>63928075
Increasing the value of my currency. Thanks for the cheaper oil & gas imports.

>>63928075
Continuing the era of the 4 bad Presidents

>>63928075
To get into this admin you had to agree the 2020 election was stolen which means it's filled with a mix of liars and retards.

>>63928075
Trump is owned by the FSB and GRU. Look into his Moscow dealings in 80s and 90s.

>>63928075
Whatever it takes to please the manlet

>>63928075
Finishing what the Soviets started when they infiltrated your systems of government and education in the 1960s.

>>63928075
Crashing American Diplomacy and its Empire with no survivors

>>63928119
You're probably not even american lol.

>>63927918
the ongoing military conflict gives monke easy ability to consolidate power and pit underlings against eachother. he can't end it without being assured of his power and that the internal security is completely loyal to him and him alone. priggy proved that if you have a coup that looks like it's going to work, his entire inner circle and system will roll over and support you. so he has to make sure there's zero chance anyone has the ability to do that now before he stops.

>>63928157
Honestly, Japan and Taiwan should get closer to China at this point. The US is too unreliable and erratic.

>>63928075
it's filled with people who don't understand the position the US held due to it's soft power, and believe it was entirely through hard power because that's what made the ratings good on TV. when they encountered the soft power they assumed because they didn't understand it or know about it that it was something conspiring against them, and have set about destroying it while being very confused as to why the hard power isn't working the same way.

i can only say this: americans are retards and a cowards for allowing republicans and democrats to rule over them for last 150+ years. No third party means americans will always be jumping from one retarded extreme to the other every time government changes.

>>63928132
i mean if we start measuring it like a historical period i'd take it further back than just 4, because even if clinton was inoffensive, he was woefully inadequate for the moment. though at least of the 4 none of them will be able to run again

>>63927918
>>63928035
>>63928151
This, it makes a lot more sense if you see if from the point of trying to cozy up to Russia. There is of course various other factors with such an ego-driven leadership.
>Omg Ukraine didn't help me with le evil money laundering accusations I will get back at them!
Admiration and aspirations to the strongman archetype coupled with the polarised sportsball mentality in politics now also plays into it. Also just being plain stupid in a strategic sense can be a factor.

What's the strategic advantage of snubbing your long-standing allies in the EU, who combined make up the largest economic bloc in the world, have a large industrial base, and over 500mil consumers of your products in favor of a shithole that used to be communist, which is populated by drug- and alcohol addicted retards, who don't manufacture anything, and have somewhere around 110-140 mil people (no one knows exactly as the retard druggies lie in their censuses)?

>>63928075
Crashing the country with no survivors

>>63928162
you definitely aren't, not a white one anyway

>>63928194
fucking retarded take you don't own firearms

>>63928242
Well you see there was stated unfair treatment in trade (in this case that means not favouring US enough as tariffs were pretty much at an equal level) based on trade imbalance. In the case of the EU this becomes largely silly because the trade imbalance was largely but not entirely driven by services which are excempt from tariffs.

Honestly it's all just a shitshow. The imperialism BS does not help either as it helps justify global adversaries in their landgrabbing behaviour, beyong being morally reprehensive of course.

>>63928193
That's just the gold standard of incompetent regressive governments. Rather than invest in long term gains, you extract short term profits to make yourself look better and grab more power. It's like copper stripping on a national and geopolitical scale. Ruin millions of dollars of hard built infrastructure so you can get a couple thousand bucks for a meth high. The fact that it renders the country weaker and harder off in the long term isn't even seen as a negative. That just makes it easier to sell the next act of desperation to chase another quick high, which further entrenches the political party that put them there in the first place.

Why don't euros just pay for their own wars?

>>63927879 (OP)
This is definitely gonna affect US arms sales in the future isn’t it?

>>63928289
t. slave

>>63928242
Anon you see we ne3d to piss, shit and cum all over allies of nearly a century to cozy up to a has been power so said has been second rate ""power"" won't support the ching chongs in a Pacific Naval Hyperwar. Totally worth the possibility of loosing the support of 2+ Suppercarriers worth of carriers and the combined economic-industrial base of the Euro-Canadian area. Also fuck AUCKUS as well for some reason

>>63927917
Yet despite such losses the current admin panics about "muh nuclear threat" and doesn't see the benefits of dismantling a global adversary for cheap.

>>63928320
At this rate we might get euros reverse engineering Patriot interceptors and GMLRS pods if the US treats it's arms deliveries in the same way Russia does.

>>63928163
I was recently reading a book which argued that whilst people may often treat putin as a new tsar or a new stalin, his actual hold on russia is far from total and his control is not as stable as it may seem, being instead predicated on an incredibly complex balance of power between himself, the military, the oligarchs, and russian organised crime (and all these categories overlap into each other of course). Things could get a lot dicier than many realise.

>>63928328
>AUCKUS
I will say we did the aussies dirty AF, both with how AUCKUS is looking and tariffs. One of the countries that we have a genuine trade surplus against gets hit with tariffs because "lol minimum amount" yet places like, you guessed it, Russia doesn't get any.
>Amagawd it's because sanctions already means there is like no trade or something
Then what about the fucking penguins? If we can tariff nations we have a surpluss against why not fucking russia?

>How dare the US have its own stockpiles gibs me dat fo free

>>63928320
For sure. Why the fuck would any EU customer buy American if some whimsical and corrupt admin can just say "fuck you" to them? Much safer for them to buy from within EU.

>>63928342
problem is that Putin consolidated power ever since he started throwing people out of windows en masse. By allowing putin to start his own small purges without any opposition russians basically capitulated to putin.

>>63928366
>aim7 is a 40 year old missile
We could just... build things? Using american workers?

>>63928075
No one knows, not even them

>>63928378
We are anon

>>63928328
>>63928332
>>63927879 (OP)
The thing I don't get about trump is that half the time he seems like a complete fucking retard but then the other half you look at the start and end point of a given decision he makes and it pans out like he's pulled some kind of 5d chess move. But then he does something unfathomably retarded again. I just need to know HOW retarded he actually is and WHY. I refuse to believe he really is just a straight up russian agent, that's way too convenient to my beliefs and I need something more convincing. What is this fucker's plan??

>>63928372
To be fair to him, if Putin really pisses the people off, the nationalists will overthrow him while the apathetic sheep just watch in shock. It's just that Westerners really struggle to understand the schizo mentality and what would actually get them to oppose Putin. The "people" support even more meat waves.

>>63927879 (OP)
Mineral Deal status?

>uhh where are our bombs and missiles that we ordered a decade ago alongside the birds, our need is critical
>oops haha sorry our stocks are running low, request denied
all the F-35 EU customers must be sweating bullets lol

>>63928357
>Then what about the fucking penguins? If we can tariff nations we have a surpluss against why not fucking russia?
Because poor little Russia is already under a shitton of sanctions (currently bring removed by Rubio)

>>63928389
The nationalists that could overthrow him are literally in Ukraine right now.

>>63928075
Lol it's starting to dawn on you, isn't it? Trump unironically doesn't care if America is a better place to live. His job is to make sure he and his friends are taken care of, and most of them are foreign autocrats whom he considers his friends. That includes Putin, whom he shares a lot more with.

I have no explanation for how this country is going other than to say that boomers have managed to yet again poison the future for another US generation. You have to be some kind of retard to vote for Trump again after how badly he fucked up the first time around. Unfortunately what South Park once said about 1/4th of Americans being retarded was a dire underestimate

>>63928395
The EU should have met their NATO quotes and generated demand for production in their countries.

>>63928397
Never thought I’d vote dem in a midterm but here we are.

>>63928406
Are you trying to call others retarded while citing a fucking cartoon?

>>63928387
>you look at the start and end point of a given decision he makes and it pans out like he's pulled some kind of 5d chess move
Care to clarify?
>I refuse to believe he really is just a straight up russian agent
Sure not in the typical sense of the word, but admiration autocracy and autocrats coupled with weakness to certain flattery can make up SOME of the why.
Though the rest of it, beats me because I don't see the long or short term gain.

>>63928410
>Voting for the open bordies, Islam and trannies party
Dems dont give a fuck about Ukraine anymore either

>>63928387
Plan? I feel like his allegiance change everytime he speaks to someone. Talks with EU? Russia bad. talks with russians? ukrainians bad. he keeps changing his mind every 2-3 days

>>63928419
He's been very consistent when it comes to Ukraine. Actions speak far louder then words.

>>63928416
Got a source for that claim?

>>63928428
First to send lethal aid IIRC

>>63928075
You vill own nothing except ze libs

>>63928308
Why was us disarming euros for decades?

>>63928429
Yeah look at what the Dems are talking about. Even Biden dripfed the Ukrainians aid and hes a cold war democrat.

>>63928419
Yet one constant is that his admin is constantly trying to cozy up to Russia in speech and in voting in UN (symbolic but anyway). They're doing these little fuck-yous to EU, Great Britain, Canada and AUSNZ in speech and in economic policy. His admin is now currently dismantling sanctions on Russia while stopping military aid of the most critical ammunition to Ukraine.

>>63928406
Political corruption has always been a sore topic
>Looking at you abscam
And while certain favours and misdeeds have always been a thing, don't think congressmen are such brilliant people that they overperform on the stock market as such, there has not been so much and such obvious grift in my lifetime.
>Lol great day to buy today!
Like yeah I'm sure him and his family didn't buy like mad before he announced tariff pauses. Lets not forget practically selling pardons and numerous other bullshit actions.
The constant golfing where secret service is overcharged like crazy is really just insult for the sake of it.

>>63928430
A negligible amount of Javelins sent under a term with a radically different administration are irrelevant.

>>63928438
Given current status it might as well have been considered generosity in abundance.

>>63928445
Because prior even Obama couldnt send lethal aid, Trump actually stopped that and set the precedent.

>>63928448
The Democrats wont give Ukraine what it needs to win, just enough to make US defense contractors money that Democrat lawmakers can profot off of.

>>63928445
>under a term with a radically different administration
this. Unlike first term his current administration is only filled with yes men and snake oil sellers.

>>63928075
destroying the american empire

>>63928462
But it's better than nothing

>>63928443
>Political corruption has always been a sore topic
You now remember how trumptards shit and pissed themselves in rage over Pelosi's portfolio in the election season and then looked down like good cucks when Trump got a new plane, gives favors to his spawn (just like Biden crime family amirite) and his wife signal boosted and allegedly profited off of a scamcoin.

>>63928475
Its worse than winning

>>63928480
How?

>>63928490
Because its not enough to win, only delaying an inevitable Russia owning Crimea forever.

>>63928499
>just surrender goy!
I’m reminded every day of how close Russo-Israeli ties are.

>>63928111
Yes, from Sweden and Norway

>>63928453
There's no evidence that Biden wouldn't have sent aid either way, but again, the Javelin argument is irrelevant.
Ever since being re-elected, with the people he actually wanted around him, the actions taken in regards to Ukraine have overwhelmingly involved hampering Ukraine and giving Russia every out imaginable, to the point of sanctions relief for... doing nothing.

>>63928505
No one said to surrender but please well poison harder demshill.

>>63928499
>>63928462
I am Rambo Washington from Texas. This man has my approval. Better for Tzar Trump to cut all aid to hohols so more death can be avoided. If demonrats win in midterms, those evil satanistic child killer adrenochrome pizzagate demonspawn jews will dripfeed the so-called Ukraine. My tax rubles are sent overseas for wars I didn't vote for.

>>63928515
I am now convinced that the Democrats will give Ukraine what it needs to retake territory and its not a big grift. Just 2 more terms of Democrat presidents guys and we'll let Ukraine sign over Crimea.

>>63928513
The fucking hell are you talking about you brainrotted Jewish gnome?

>>63928512
>giving Russia every out imaginable, to the point of sanctions relief for... doing nothing.
this is what I don't understand
what's the strategy here
for such a transactional faggot trump's plays regarding russia are absolutely bizarre

>>63928477
>looked down like good cucks when Trump got a new plane
I will be honest with you, amongst all the grift and monetization of the office I actually remember I forgot about that one.

But draining the swamp quickly became become the swampies fucking gator there is, even during the first term but doubly so in this term.
>>63928475
I will hand it to the bongs (and baltic states), they have been pouring stuff into the ukies from early on and not given fucks about red lines, actually behaving like they genuinely want them to win. But I will also express my suspicion that the bongs might have acted like a coordinated tester in this regard to some degree. For example, sending tanks (which was apparently another red line) to test the waters and the US then sending tanks and IFVs.

>>63928525
English is hard for you I suppose.

>>63927879 (OP)
What's stopping generals on the ground and in Pentagon to suddenly leave trailers filled with weapons in Ukraine's borders and write it off to some random Pacific base that doesn't exist?

Orange man doesn't need to know

This whole thread reeks of astroturfed Dem shilling. Any actual /k/ommando wanting to insult Trump would just call him a faggot, not The Orange PalpaDrumpfDemort.

>>63928308
good goy

>>63928527
Compromat

>>63928527
It makes more sense if you consider that he genuinely, actually likes Putin on a personal level. Trump isn’t smart enough to separate what he likes and what is good.
He’s a nigger.

>>63928538
Jail time

>>63928538
>What's stopping generals on the ground and in Pentagon to suddenly leave trailers filled with weapons in Ukraine's borders and write it off to some random Pacific base that doesn't exist?
They have to follow laws, while the president doesn't have to.

>>63927879 (OP)
I'm pretty sure they're RIM-7s not AIM-7s

>>63928527
My guess is he's assuming that such a massive "win" for Russia would make them cozy with us and help against China. When odds are even if Trump hands Ukraine on a silver platter to Putin the Russians will still give China all the support in the world because they are ideologically opposed to us at a core, personal level.

This is all assuming Putin doesn't have dirt on him or something and Trump isn't his vassal.

>>63928529
>bongs
as much of a cunt boris johnson he really was important in helping ukraine. Compared to him startmer feels like a cuck

>stocks had run low
But when Israel asks for those weapons it'll be there in a few hours no questions asked

At least Joe didn't roll over though I am sure he was somewhat risk adverse in certain decisions
>I'm gonna NOOOK OOOK OOOK
>No you won't, don't do that shit, if you do we will annihilate any and all russian forces on ukranian soil with conventional weaponry
And now?
>OMG PLEASE DON'T DO IT VLADDY DADDY NOOOO PLEASE STOP! ZELENSKY YOU ARE PLAYING WITH WW3 YOU DON'T HOLD CARDS! WHY AREN'T YOU SAYING THANKS AND WEARING A SUIT!
It is honestly pathetic.

>>63928462
Seems like massive improvement over trump killing off international markets for us defense contractors

>>63928527
>what's the strategy here
To let ruzzia win as fast as possible?

>>63928539
He is called Zion Don, or just 'that dumb fat orange faggot'
All the taco shit and everything else is gay as fuck

did yurop stop giving them anything?

>>63928558
Coming from someone eho malds when the US sells arms to Israel I doubt your motives.

>>63928553
The man fought bravely along with his many clones in the conflict. Remember the barge raid.

To stay a bit more on topic, there is of course aid in aviation material that would be relevant in a pacific conflict, but as people have said, I think it's more an excuse than it isn't.

>>63927918
Trump personally dislikes Zelensky. Additionally a trade deals with Russia is probably more valuable than one with Ukraine. It's as simple as that. You can see this mentality with the India-Pakistan and Israel-Iran conflicts, where he kept offering trade deals to both sides in exchange for peace, because he doesn't seem to understand why countries might hate eachother when there is money to be made. It helps that Russia bought a bunch of fox news hosts, which trump then proceeded to fill his staff with (I personally believe even the russians planned for that.)

>>63928565
You can only do that because you can't deny my point.

>>63928562
Nah, they still send stuff. What changed is that most of it is now not publicly announced. Even germany decided to keep it secret

>>63928562
Yurop's 155mm factories are working overtime but making production larger has a long lead time. Yurop also doesn't make APWKS (that I know of) and can't manufacture (ie. won't be allowed to) patriot interceptors.

>>63928557
I can give Biden the benefit of the doubt, because he was there at the war's beginning so there was a lot of uncertainty about the Russian's true capabilities. In Biden's term, they still had T-80s and BTRs. When Trump took office the entire Russian military had been reduced to fucking golfcarts and dirtbikes.

>>63928573
You dont care about the US defense industry.

>>63928555
Hey fuck you, gaza needed to be flattened faster, they needed those artillery shells!
Not that the previous admin wasn't soft on the whole issue but that is another topic.

>>63928570
>Additionally a trade deals with Russia is probably more valuable than one with Ukraine
How so? Ukraine has valuable rare earth minerals and oil too. Plus you need to get Russia to actually agree to favorable terms with the US; which is both short term at best (as long as orange man is in officer) and unlikely as Ziggers could always turn their back at any point. Having warm relations with Ukraine ensures better, longer trade deals than whatever Russia could provide us.

>>63928577
I just hope the scooby doo van is doing ok.

>>63928588
In his defence, not currently under their control.

>>63928565
>sells
>after giving them the money to buy the stuff
Lmao
And pissrael is a shithole state that has spent decades undermining US foreign policy and isn't doing fuck all to help, while being rallied behind compromised 5th columnist lobby groups who mysteriously have a lot of sway over the US government
Ukraine is a poor slavic shithole fighting one of the 2 US/Western arch nemesis states, a nation that has spent the last century constantly trying to fuck the USA over, and in many ways has by compromising its populace and supporting massive unrest
Post your fucking nose faggot

>>63928578
As I said you can't deny my point(that trump is killing international markets for US defense contractors which is worse than democrats earning money from them) so you just go for what you think i think of US defense industry

>>63928588
....Not to mention all the bad shit that will happen to US trade when a 550mil+ economic bloc says "fuck this shit" and starts retaliating when we cozy up to their existential enemy

>>63928605
not to mention how ziggers are conniving little backstabbers who will absolutely fuck us the moment they think that it is beneficial for them

>>63928605
>their
Remind me who infiltrated and undermined the US education system?

>>63928615
Jews?

>>63928615
the KGB

>>63928615
chinks

>>63928615
The Soviets?

What the hell even happened to all his talks about focusing on China at this point? I genuinely have no clue on wtf is even going on at this point on his priorities.

>>63928619
Well yeah but that's another story, and theirs is a lot worse than the education system

>>63928622
Exactly, it's not just their ideological rival, it is our own, those faggots would have seen us broken and dead, and they haven't changed their mind
Fuck them, if paid 80s tax dollars and some slavic meatshields are what it takes to wipe those snow nigger fuckers out then thats a pretty no brainer deal to take
What the fuck happened to realpolitik?

>>63928625
he took an L in china matters so it got memoryholed and quietly forgotten about
now we'll just cancel E-7 that was a joint project with AUKUS and then we'll replace our current AWACS stock with the mighty (lol) E-2 to help us own the chinks in the pacific or something

>>63928625
Well china pushed back and apparently some sort of frame has been semi-agreed upon in terms of trade.
Also apparently stealing Greenland from the danes is important against china or something.

>>63928597
You hate when the US defense industry profits from selling to Israel, your entire argument is flawed because of this.

>>63928539
>you must agree with everything or you’re a democrat
What is this retarded logic

>>63928595
>Economylet doesnt understand how it works
The feds give Israel money that goes back into US pockets. Lotta people have jobs because of the aid to Israel.

>>63928638
Why did you ignore my post?
>>63928595
If the US is providing huge sums of the money for Israel to invest in the MIC, why not just invest in the MIC ourselves and let pissrael use their own fucking money?
Post your fucking nose faggot

>>63928633
>now we'll just cancel E-7 that was a joint project with AUKUS and then we'll replace our current AWACS stock with the mighty (lol) E-2 to help us own the chinks in the pacific or something
>>63928634
>Well china pushed back and apparently some sort of frame has been semi-agreed upon in terms of trade.
just imagine if he traded away AWACS coverage as a bargaining chip for some sort of "frame" in the trade war

>>63928634
btw why the hell does USA needs greenland for if now they don't consider russia as enemy?

>>63928646
Ah yeah, because the US couldn't just invest that money out of its own coffers, it has to let Israel launder it and receive the goods from that manufacturing because....
???

>>63928649
I ignore wastes of time.

>>63928646
>Lotta people have jobs because of the aid to Israel.
Same goes for Ukraine aid. It's not free and pro bono. Ukraine takes massive loans against these weapons AFAIK. Even the economic aid is just loans with deferred interest payments.

>>63928655
Kek, I accept your concession then
You could have just said your a dumb cunt but I guess that'll do

>>63928562
Europe can't physically give them Patriot interceptors. Most of the other aid they've already covered for.
In my opinion, we'll probably get a definitive answer on where Trump's admin stands on Ukraine when they start stalling any sale of Patriot interceptors to Europe, if not outright refusing the sale.

>>63928659
Ukraine aid has not been around long enough for careers to be born from it.

>>63928650
I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out that all the canceled projects were sacrifices for whatever retarded idea of a "frame" for the trade war. Either that or there would be some "surprise" replacement programs coming out in the coming year that suspiciously have ties to him.

>>63928671
What the fuck are you talking about, it's the MIC you retard

>>63928671
Jesus, I hope you're just ignorant and not lying through your teeth. It's the fucking MIC. Do you know how much this shitshow of a war boosted sales? There's was a massive recruitment drive in 2022 already and that was when everyone was busy trying to figure out if Ukraine would hold at all.

>>63928570
>dislikes Zelenskyy
So he’s so butthurt over him he’s gonna let innocent civilians die?

>>63928132
Obama was great on everything except Syria.

>>63928678
>>63928686
Oh I forgot Im talking to zoomers who think 2 years is a "career".

>>63928691
>this post is extremely low quality

>>63928693
You're reporting me because you're mad and can't argue? Lol

>>63928688
It’s almost like he’s a completely amoral retard isn’t it?

>>63928075
Crashing the USA....
WITH NO SURVIVORS

>>63928182
>Honestly, Japan and Taiwan should get closer to China at this point.
yeah, because China treats the countries it has influence over so well...

>>63928289
you are brown

>>63928695
When did I say I'd reported you? Can you quote me?
You've already made it clear you don't understand what the MIC is, or you're pretending not to
Being a fucking idiot and pretending to be an idiot makes no odds

>>63927879 (OP)
All this memery around stopping China by limiting Ukraine aid is fucking ridiculous. It's too goddamn late, if China attacks in the next 10 years then we are going to be unable to stop them at the first island chain. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills watching the DoD pretend that we have a serious shot at halting a Taiwan invasion with how fucked our procurement and stockpiles are. China is going to be willing to take 100,000 casualties for Taiwan, so I don't understand how there is a realistic expectation that our munitions stockpiles that are by all accounts only enough for ~10 days of combat are going to be enough to cause such massive casualties that China gives up. I'm sure tards who have only a surface level understanding of things will call me a chink shill because I believe that the Chinese have shown themselves to be less retarded than the Russians, but it's at the very minimum eminently clear that trying to prosecute a war across the world against a near peer enemy who is spamming such massive scale production of long range and relatively low observable aircraft is going to be absurdly difficult. We needed these massive naval and aircraft defense missile production increases 20 years ago, not 5. The sheer quantity of targets that are going to need to be engaged means that I can't see this working out in any other way than us using up all our missiles and causing a fuck load of Chinese casualties and then being stuck sitting on our hands while they keep going. Especially since our allies are probably not gonna want to do shit because they are afraid that if they go to far and the US can't stop the capture of Taiwan that they will be abandoned and at mercy of Chinese retribution (which will probably be economic)

>>63928639
No, but faggy Twitteresque names and histronics about kompromat (a Russian term meaning "we need an excuse for how we could possibly have lost to this dipshit") are Dem calling cards.

>retards with no geopolitical experience pitching about the president ending a supply of free weapons to the most corrupt country in Europe
Backing it up with the thoroughly debunked Russia collusion narrative is the cherry on top. Lol

63928718

>>63928713
Oh so you're a coward too. The MIC isnt a bunch of cryptobros, even 5 years is nothing.

>>63928714
It might surprise you to hear this, but the "Muh China" thing is just an excuse. Because they never make serious efforts to increase procurement afterwards.

>>63928718
>retards with no geopolitical experience pitching
>pitching
retard-kun...

>>63928723
Nigger we are sending 80s and 90s stockpiles, this shit isn't made on demand for this shit, and it isn't employing people specifically for this shit
You are legitimately a fucking retard, shitposting or not

>>63928723
>MIC isn’t a bunch of cryptobros
YET!
Trump’s working on fixing that. Comrade Big Balls will fix procurement!

>>63928736
Oh so you have zero idea whats going on, guess I was hallucinating those temporary production boosts. Waste. Of. Time.

>>63928741
>no argument
Kek, are you the butthurt jew?

>>63928714
Why should the Europeans assist us in the future if we don't assist them now, or won't even sell them weapons now that they could pass forward to Ukraine?

>>63928688
>So he’s so butthurt over him he’s gonna let innocent civilians die?
Da.

>>63928744
>DA JOOS
Go back to /pol/

>>63928748
Is 80 billion not enough?

>>63928075
This country has been run by foreigners for 20 years, for some insane fucking readon we have allowed foreigners to manipulate our media.
You have Elon and Thiel chudmaxxing, you have Murdoch boomermaxxing with Fox News. I'm sure there are similar things on the left, but I don't partake.
We have Russian troll farms making us tear each other's throats out, and we Israeli troll farms bombarding congressional sites at critical times to astroturf support for a position. And NO ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT. No one has an anti-foreign influence unit in the FBI. Apparently you can't legally contribute to a US campaign as a foreigner, but you can cut out the middleman and do it yourself on social media. Legally.

We are getting divide-and-conquered by foreigners we're 17th century India, and no one gives a flying fuck. Why is Elon allowed to own an American socia media company? Why is Murdoch allowed to buy US citizenship so he can buy all the newspapers AND Fox News? Are we really prostitutes that easily?

>>63928748
It's not even that
Russia is a hostile state to us, we should be wanting them destroyed because the damage they have, and have tried to inflict on the US alone
Let alone for fucking with our allies
What the fuck happened to people, fucking peacenik commie pussies

>>63928758
I will only take you seriously if you also call out the Dems.

>>63928757
Retard-kun, they don't send boatloads of fucking freshly printed dollars there, they send equipment from storage that the recipient pays for.

>>63928308
>t. John Smith from Idaho Oblast
You're a dumb fuck with a dumb fuck understanding of geopolitics, soft power, and in all likelihood tying your own shoes without help.

>>63928760
You're advocating for regime change of a nuclear power. You have no credibility

>>63928733
They are attempting to increase production, but increasing the supply chain throughput with no reliance on China takes a while. This is precisely why we should have started this shit 20 years ago, it is simply way too late to start doing this shit now expecting us to have these high production factories and lines built in time to do anything based on general expectations of when this conflict is going to start

>>63928714
Exactly
Given the distances involved China can very easily turn Taiwan into a giant Stalingrad while the US has to sustain carrier operations in a maelstrom of air and ballistic missile attacks to even think about mounting a response.
The US needs to have overwhelming supremacy in both the number of launch platforms and ammunition quantity.

>>63928770
Ukraine isnt paying for this shit

>>63928416
Nice try Donnie and/or Sergay
Dems are pro-NATO and pro-Ukraine

>>63928756
I don't browse /pol/ it's full of your thirdie retard asses
Now do you wanna answer this >>63928649 yet or will you continue to kvetch and worm your way around being a fucking retard?

>>63928781
>Fell for it
I'll believe that when the Democrats actually give Ukraine enough to win.

>>63928718
>most corrupt country in europe
your ilk uses that shill line a lot, but russia is by far the most corrupt country in europe and ukraine has made major strides and brushed past bosnia in the meantime, because they're doing their best to improve and most of their corruption issues were clearly to do with being economically and politically bound to russia by a puppet that took most of ukraine's gold with him when he fled to russia.

>>63928772
So you want the Russians to just continue fucking over the country then?

>>63928430
That was under Obama see>>63928445
And that was before they wouldn't help Trump against Biden

>>63928783
>DA JOOS
You browse /pol/

>>63928430
Yeah because congress basically tard-wrangled him into doing it. But he also managed to put so many restrictions on them (not allowed anywhere close to eastern ukraine) that it basically made them useless

>>63928756
brown

>>63928780
Yes they are, you fucking stupid faggot. EU (and the US to a lesser extent) provides Ukraine with loans that have advantageous terms that Ukraine uses to pay for the military aid from the US and the EU. Not to mention that fighting the Russians ought to be payment enough. It's a hostile state, paradigmatically opposed to us for almost a century.

>>63928789
>It was Obama
>>63928794
>It was Congress
Its cope!

>>63928757
>80 billion
in in already purchased assets that we were replacing anyway and that would have cost us more to dispose of instead of giving away?
you realize we're not really the ones sending ukraine liquid cash, right? that's the EU and most of that money is being invested right back into the european MIC.

>>63928793
Why is it sensible for the US to produce arms for Israel out of its own pocket rather than simply get Israel to pay for them?

>>63928788?>>63928798
This is DoD drawdown it's not paid for.

>>63928764
not op but what did they do thats comparable?

>>63928803
We have interests in Israel being the dominant military force in the middle east, they help us wrangle Iran.

>>63928772
They had a regime collapse and huge change 30 years ago, how many nukes did you catch retard?

>>63928552
>against China
>he thinks Trump acts against his own self-interest
It's literally just Trump's business in Russia after sanctions get lifted. If you think Trump has even the most simplistic understanding of geopolitics like you're describing, you're an idiot. China doesn't need Russia, and we certainly don't either. Stop it with these desperate grasping for a 5d chess explanation; what you are seeing is what you are getting.

>>63928811
So why don’t we want to wrangle Russia?

>>63928605
While I am a mere moderate who believes in TZD, I am going to never stop laughing if Europe decides to get pissy about people trying to play ball with Russia after they spent the entire first Trump presidency dicksucking Putin to own the dorito man.

>>63928815
Russia is wrangled, they cant beat Ukraine and are not a threat to NATO anymore.

>>63928811
No we don't, you (pissraeli) have interests in that
How does this benefit the US at all?
Wrangle iran? We don't need Israel to do that, and we have many friendly relations in the middle east in spite of Israel
Literally 0 justification in paying for them (YOU) to waste some hadji inbred kids, if they (YOU) want to do it why is it not in US interests to make them (YOU) pay for it

>>63928807
Democrats flooded us with foreigners while paying news agencies to deny and obfuscate it, for one. We didnt even have a functional border until Trump got back in.

>>63928820
We pay Israel to do our dirty work to achieve our goals. How is this hard to grasp?

>>63928811
Iran is an existential threat to USA?

>>63928816
EU fucked up for the whole first 20 years of 2000's, that much is true. They got done in completely by muh peace dividend, 90's and 00's optimism and the retarded thinking that business ties could prevent a war with Russia, not to mention hell of a lot of corruption and hostile influence. However now they are quite the disillusioned bunch and I will not fault them if they get belligerent when we start (or should I say, already are) dicksucking the ziggers.

>>63928588
Russia is the biggest country in the world dumbass, with the fast majority of it undeveloped. From a strictly natural resources perspective, no country can match any offer Russia makes.
much less Ukraine, which probably isn't even top 40 for minerals.
Use your brain, son.

>>63928830
They are a state sponsor of terrorism aimed against the US, they armed the Houthis, yes.

>>63928758
>Why is Elon allowed to own an American socia media company? Why is Murdoch allowed to buy US citizenship so he can buy all the newspapers AND Fox News? Are we really prostitutes that easily?

It's good business - and business is a core value in american culture.

Once they rise above a certain limit, there's not much they can't do with their legal and middle man armies.

>>63928835
It also helps that Europe isn't an independent block and there was massive pushback to Germany and France trying to please the zigs.

>>63928787
Ukraine is the most corrupt in Europe since Russia is in Asia and has higher GDP per capita than Ukraine.

>>63927918
>Russia wasn't interested
I dunno. Russia was basically offered a white peace, which would have been a huge win and allow him to keep gains and reset his forces and focus literally anywhere else. Does not make sense to me.

>>63928836
And they'll be 10 times more expensive to extract when all is said and done because it's all bumfuck wilderness with no infrastructure, populated entirely by thieving troglodytes. I wonder how much those investments paid off when Russia chimped out and nationalized foreign assets. What do you think the math on that payout looks like?

>>63928777
>>63928714
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the chinks aren't better off either. If the US, the strongest single economy in the world, is struggling to keep up procurement. Then the Chinese, who spend less on their military and have a smaller individual economy (by about half even, and that's if we take them at face value) are gonna be struggling too; unless they ramp up military spending significantly which hurts their economy in the long run, are lying through their teeth about their real military capabilities or are building cheap, subpar equipment en masse.

Even ignoring that, the invasion of Taiwan would be one of the most complex, difficult amphibious invasions in human history. It's not a flat desert island, it's a mountain fortress raised up by cliff faces. There's very few beaches to actually land on all of which are already ranged in by artillery, which is built into the mountains along with all their airbases (and we've just seen how difficult it is to hit a mountain base) so their missiles need to be really damn accurate to be effective. Even if you do get onto the island you have to traverse narrow mountain roads until you hit the capital city; which is one of the most built up urban environments in the world.

To say China, a nation with next to zero military experience, would steamroll Taiwan and the US at the same time is frankly ill informed at best, and chink shilling at worst.

I'd be in favor of aid to Ukraine if I thought it would end the war or advance an American interest. However, it's been apparent for the last year the aid isn't making a difference. Simply put Russia has more resources it is willing and able to devote to the conflict. It has men from North Korea and materiel from China. Not to mention it gets more money from the EU than Ukraine.

Accordingly, more aid to Ukraine seems like a policy designed to assuage an emotional rather than rational interest. I'm sure politicians love the photo ops in Kyiv, but they have no strategy to end the war. Time to stop throwing good money after bad.

>>63928193
Nah, you can't do such shit only because incompetence

>>63928850
It’s not anymore

>>63928861
>but they have no strategy to end the war.
Support the war till russian collapse? This worked well in Afghanistan

>>63928858
i believe an ancient proverb about the russians is most likely appropriate to the true state of china's military
>russia has a big, modern military
>the big parts aren't modern
>the modern parts aren't big

>>63928861
This is a new and interesting script. Did your shill manager just give it to you? Or did you get from Twitter?
>more aid to Ukraine seems like a policy designed to assuage an emotional rather than rational interest
That aid is currently slowly eroding our enemy nation. Our payout is massively in the minus if we let Russians wins and have their way with Ukraine. The ripple effects of that are even harder to measure, as no one would truly know what happens when other nations start realizing how you can just simply conquer other people without repercussions.

>>63928193
>because they didn't understand it or know about it that it was something conspiring against them
And not just with soft diplomatic power. They don't understand *anything*. The White House bragged about getting rid of a "$4 million for onions bean research" grant because science is hard to understand so it must be a scam. Onions bean yields have gone up by 50% in the last thirty years and that's partly due to agricultural research sponsored by the federal government. That 50% increase means there's an additional $20 billion being added to the US economy every year, it means farmers are more economically secure, that more people are employed (and paying taxes), that rural areas are a little more prosperous which means fewer people collecting federal aid, and that the US agricultural sector is more competitive internationally. Not bad for four million bucks. But no, science is a waste of money because it takes some people more than five seconds to understand its benefits and to them, thinking is gay or libtarded or something.
>inb4 shut up libtard
My point is that being pro-science shouldn't be a political opinion in the first place. Everyone should be in favor of it, especially when it's something as uncontroversial as fucking *beans*. And if the people at the very top (politicians) and the very bottom (the dumbest voters) were only a little bit less retarded, it wouldn't be.

>>63928828
No we fucking don't, Israel literally just got US to do their dirty work you fucking idiot
This thread is about the fact we are actively avoiding doing this in ukraine, who are in a war with an actual nemesis foreign power
You're full of fucking shit and we both know why that is ((((((YOU)))))) retard

>>63928874
That's aspirational, we have no indication that Russia is near collapse.

>>63928691
Your post is shit and you should feel bad, fuck yourself you retarded sophist

>>63928764
re-read my post, I'll throw in an elaboration
>I'm sure there are similar things on the left, but I don't partake [in left-leaning media]
that being said, this "otherside-ism" is going to be the death of us all. You know that right? A foreign billionaire dictating American policy is ghastly no matter who is doing it.

>>63928838
The Houthis hate the US because of Israel fucking lmao
You are an idiot

>>63928798
Russia was the enemy because they were Bolsheviks from 1917 to 1991. The last time they attacked Americans was giving weapons to communist proxies in the 1980's.

>>63928882
Fuck, I forgot about the [that type of bean] thing because everyone knows about the filter so no one ever spells it correctly which means I almost never see the word o-n-i-o-n-s turning up here. I may be a newfag, but I ain't that fucking new dammit.

>>63928893
And that little kerfuffle during Trump’s first term.

>>63928893
You missed the broadcasts starting from the 2000's in which they call for the US's destruction and openly say live on their most popular TV channels that they want to nuke Washington?

>>63928893
Russia funds anti government groups constantly and actively sabotages our and our allies infrastructure
Get fucked

>>63928886
Well I have, and Afghanistan weakened USSR in roughly 10 years and you want to throw the towel after only 3?

>>63928387
Maybe this phrase helps you understand:
Chaos is a ladder.

America has checks and balances that attempt to make the president a servant of the people and not a king. But Trump doesn't care about the people, only his personal gain. And where do you go when you're already rich and the fucking president? You become like Putin in Russia: Untouchable, unquestionable, the loadstone of all power and beloved by all, or else. Trump likes how Russia works and therefore he wants them to win, to make their style of leadership be more legitimate. Hence the dumb shit like Gulf of America, the parade on his birthday and the constant attempts at getting a Peace Nobel prize.
I don't want to repeat the fascist buzzword, but man, the guy has immunity from all laws, federal courts can't stop any activities of this admin and congress granted a giant budget to a group of masked, unidentified officers that can kidnap anyone and send them to prison without due process or any accountability even when they fuck up. Trump doesn't give a shit about America, the shining city on a hill and leader of the free world. He wants to burn it down so that he can be king of the ashes.

>>63928758
>No one has an anti-foreign influence unit in the FBI.
The US did have a team for cybersecurity specifically against Russian attacks. Trump 2 shot them down.

>>63928893
I'll remind you. Active measures, nigger.

>>63928786
Not comparable at all.
Does in no way absolve Zion Don and his ilk from trying to ruin NATO, cozying up to our enemies, and leaving Ukraine to rot while adoring the dictator who threatens to NUKE each and every one of us on a weekly basis. How dare you even compare the two parties' approaches, and in such a disingenuous fashion.

>>63928892
>Iranian state backed terror hates the US and Israel
Wow what a novel thought, did you know that the US is the Great Satan for these ragheads? Israel is the secondary enemy to them.

>>63928718
>most corrupt country in Europe
At least Ukraine has had multiple leaders since 2000 lol

>>63928881
>cant comprehend original thought and assumes it's shilling
Telling but grim.
The aid isn't slowly eroding anything. If you haven't noticed Russia is advancing. Moreover it's become more intertwined with NK and China, the exact opposite of what you want if you're the U.S. Funding a losing war, especially with some defense stocks you can't quickly replace is a bad idea. Again I wish Ukraine could win, but the political will isn't there. Especially in Europe. We're not going to engineer Russia's collapse if they send 100bn a year there.

>>63928886
food inflation is immense in Russia, potatoes cost over double now than what they did in last year' fall.

>>63928800
Trump never helps anyone unless he gets a payout.

>>63928718
>most corrupt country in Europe
Did US start to supply weapons to russia?

>>63928856
>And they'll be 10 times more expensive to extract when all is said and done because it's all bumfuck wilderness with no infrastructure, populated entirely by thieving troglodytes
Good thing Trump is in the hotel racket then

>>63928588
Russia has more money and resources than Ukraine, therefore the immediate headlines and victory lap from a deal will look better. The long term is irrelevant so long as the deal stays profitable while trump is in office. After that he doesn't care and will take no blame. Plus best friend Putin would never do something like that in the first place. Don't forget how they tried to bully Ukraine into effectively selling their country with that minerals deal in the initial draft.

>>63928688
The man has all but excused Russia for hitting Ukrainian cities after Ukrainian strikes on military targets (see after operation spiderweb). He has complained that zelensky keeps asking for missiles. In short, yes.

>>63928858
China has not only significantly more production capability (given their advanced level of vertical integration) but also significantly lower production costs due to this and a number of other factors. US production is low because it's hard to find manufacturers of components that do not rely on China at all. In China, they own the extraction, refinement and component production levels all at the same time due to them being the largest mass manufacturing hub on the planet. They also simply have a lot more people to hire for production since they have a bigger population as a whole.
With regards to Taiwan, yes and amphibious invasion would be hard, I am not doubting this. The problem is that Taiwan is within range of Chinese stealth aircraft and literally tens to hundreds of thousands of cruise and ballistic missiles. They only have 20-30 long range ADS batteries total so it's not like theyre going to be intercepting a ton of these strikes. I don't expect the Chinese to destroy every SAM and military base on the island of course but Taiwan is effectively completely at the mercy of Chinese strikes from the start which makes setting up artillery and anti ship missile launch platforms incredibly difficult. Taiwan as a whole doesn't really take their defense all that seriously, their armored corps are basically all 1960s vintage tanks with some upgrades, their self propelled artillery systems are similar, their air force is largely made up of 1970s vintage F-16As with some software upgrades and a radar that is an upgrade of a 1970s vintage AN/APG-66. In a China conflict the ROC armed forces are only going to be marginally useful, vast majority of the fighting will be done by the USN.

>>63928893
https://theins.ru/en/politics/277723
retard-kun...

>>63928925
>The aid isn't slowly eroding anything
Yeah

>>63928856
>because it's all bumfuck wilderness with no infrastructure, populated entirely by thieving troglodytes
And not having ports everywhere close to those bumfuck locations.

>>63928850
>dejected thirdie screeching
lol
>ukraine is the most corrupt in europe
it just isn't, flatout, it's not even in 2nd place anymore.
>and has a higher GDP per capita than ukraine
this didn't have anything to do with the discussion so i assume you added this because you're an angry zig and wanted a sick own.
ukraine has effectively much higher GDP per capita than russia simply because over 75% of russia's wealth is in the hands of a bunch of oligarchs, which is not so for ukraine because even the corruption that is still there is very spread out.russia on the other hand is literally a gas station controlled by a mafia with a prison culture.

>>63928925
>But Russia is advancing
I know you're forced to say it or a Chechen shoves a broom handle up your ass, but this line just makes it painfully obvious that you're just a shill

>>63928851
Russia's offer is that the war can end as soon as Ukraine withdraws from the 4 oblasts that were added to Russia's constitution.

Why is every discussion of Ukraine freighted with demonstrably false DNC talking points about Trump and Russia?

>>63928967
Because Dems are looking for wedge issues to push in 2026 and Trump is at best wishy washy on Ukraine.

lately when I think about the state of the world (so most days because I have to for my career) I just have this song playing in my head constantly
https://youtu.be/TfKTgx15jag?si=3LkD9ofCr2IHCHG0

>>63928850
> Ukraine is the most corrupt because Russia has higher GDP per capita than Ukraine
Lol wut
>Russia is in Asia
Pussiya has parts in Europe
what r retard lmao

>>63928967
>false DNC talking points about Trump and Russia
Reality proved they were right

>>63928861
>that the aid isn't making a difference
russia losing artillery superiority isn't making a difference?
russia is simply losing the attritional war, they're not going to be able to keep it up as long as we keep up aid.

>>63928972
Perhaps the only thing they got right was saying that Trump would be unreliable to Ukraine.

>>63928925
Original thought he says, then reposts tired zigger shill lines. I'll bite anyway.

>The aid isn't slowly eroding anything
Except their armor, artillery and AFV stock.
>If you haven't noticed Russia is advancing.
What, 20 miles from the starting point or something in over 3 years? Is that faster or slower than fucking WW1?
>Moreover it's become more intertwined with NK and China, the exact opposite of what you want if you're the U.S.
This is exactly why you don't associate with that nation of conniving thieves and drunks. They would absolutely backstab us instantly if they think that the Chinks have a better deal. They hate us, they oppose us. They're the enemy. Always have been.
>Funding a losing war, especially with some defense stocks you can't quickly replace is a bad idea
155mm artillery shell is repleacable, stop being histrionic.
>the political will isn't there. Especially in Europe.
No, the political will isn't here in the US. Europe wants Ukraine to win the war.
>We're not going to engineer Russia's collapse if they send 100bn a year there.
Proof that we couldn't make Russia collapse because that exactly what happened when we armed Russia's enemy in the Afghanistan war?

>>63928914
>The US did have a team for cybersecurity specifically against Russian attacks. Trump 2 shot them down.
not surprising, but this predates Trump by at least a quarter-century. Facebook and Twitter, and before them, Fox News.
>you are now aware that Russia paid for it's pro-Trump campaign ads on Facebook in unconverted RUBLES
Even in high school AP comp sci I would have intuitively known to only allow dollars for a US political campaign contribution in such an application. Like one "if-statement" in the right place. But Facebook didn't even do that.
now we have literally single-handedly electing a president. Doesn't matter that he's retarded and immediately got buyers remorse because he has a childish naïveté that only an autistic could have as an adult.

>>63928961
A slow, grinding advance is still an advance. Wishing it wasn't so doesn't change the fact Russia is generally dictating the terms of the conflict. They're cruel and incompetent, but still plodding ahead. Again, I don't see a point in throwing more money down a black hole.

>>63928967
dunno vanja

>>63928893
>The last time they attacked Americans was giving weapons to communist proxies in the 1980's.
Does this dumb retarded faggot not know about the Taliban bounty program as late as 2016?

>>63928969
at best wishy washy? He parrots kremlin propaganda points verbatim, humiliated the ukrainian president on live television, voted with russia on a UN vote on the matter of ukraine, and has been actively cutting aid to ukraine while placing no pressure on russia whatsoever (despite ukraine actually abiding by all of his demands and playing his game whilst russia has done diddly squat). My perception of his approach to ukraine is that he wants ukraine to surrender so he can have a cheap, false peace and cozy up to putin, and he's simply trying his very best not to make it too obvious (but is still failing)

>>63928980
A slow grinding advance does not win wars. Ask Germany in the first world war.

>>63928925
>r-russia is advancing
at hundreds of meters per second at a rate of material and men loss that they're going to lose their entire population before they reach the dnepr, which would take over 50 years.
>NK and china
nope, NK is sucking the corpse of russia for all it's worth while giving piddling amounts of aid, china is scared to be involved at all and will only help with minor amounts of aid, as long as it isn't military.
you're trying way too hard, shill-chan.

>>63928984
Trump says a lot, but he tends to do a "will he won't he" approach. Trump's not going to sell Ukraine to Russia but we won't sell Ukraine what they need to win, he wants to force both countries into a deal that he can put his name on.

>>63928976
>>63928972
Trump campaigned on this though. If the American people wanted to write a blank check to Ukraine, Kamala would be in office.

>>63928980
Putin had to publicly admit that their economy is going into recession and that he has to cut military spending but they took 2 farm field last month so they're going to win any day now is it? The only way Russia "dictates" the terms of the conflict is that it'd be over if they went home.

>>63928980
You didn't throw any money zigur

>>63928991
>Trump campaigned on this though.
He didn't actually

>>63928980
>the advance

>>63928990
Really weird that the deal is "Ukraine has to give up all the claimed land, give the US a bazillion dollars in "reparations" but Russia doesn't have to do anything and we lift all their sanctions."

>>63928991
I never said that the Democrats had a winning ticket, they completely fucked everything up and couldn't even show how their Ukraine support was anything but virtue signalling. If the Dems really wanted to win they should have among other things made Ukraine their Israel.

>>63928925
While Russia is advancing its in empty fields or barely used area. Now how many actual cities and not villages of 100 people have they actually taken since

>>63928925
Anon, Putin had to cut military spending this year for a reason.
You were at most 2 years from either military or economic collapse forcing one or the other, and only now did the US decide now is the time to cut aid.
He is just helping his buddy. Every time Russia is having a hard time, Trump comes to his rescue by pausing aid.

>>63929000
Almost like its designed to make Ukraine hurt Russia hard and quickly. Trump's not a 200 IQ genius but he likes playing 4D chinese checkers even if he doesn't understand all the rules. Far as I can tell he was trying to goad Ukraine into showing their trump cards, which they did and now Ukraine is in a more favorable position.

>>63928967
>false
Proofs?
>haha you don't have any because Trump is a Russian cocksucker and everyone here knows it
At least most of the pro-2Afags on here who voted for him have the decency to feel ashamed, or at least somewhat embarrassed
Are you really going to make me go to the archives and pull up the literal thousands of posts of MAGA idiots saying about how he was going to give EVEN MORE aid to Ukraine, and in the war, and grant every single 2A wish, and make more cheap again and every other bullshit pipedream? It's not a Dem conspiracy if it happens to be truth lol

>>63929019
More favorable position that warrants stopping military aid?

>>63928916
Trump supporters really are either lying rats or just dumb aninals

>>63928925
>The aid isn't slowly eroding anything
Cough cough. Ahem. Post the armored vehicles count.

>>63929023
You wouldn't want to outwardly reward Ukraine for taking out a tip of the Nuclear trident. Easier to take back and give more later on if Ukraine keeps up their work.

>>63928987
>per second
i assume you meant per 2 months lol

>>63929019
Hard to do that when in the same breath he's cutting aid and intelligence sharing for a couple days after.

>>63927918
Doesn't matter, Putin is anti-woke. So we must sip his cum to become manly man alpha ourselves and save the white western civilization from globalhomo.

>>63929003
But the American people dont want that. I think at the root of this the electorate understands this is a conflict in a far away place, costs a lot of money, and should be Europe's responsibility, but the EU is so cucked and coopted by Russia, the U.S. has to spend vasts sums of money to even move the needle.

>>63929019
>desperate disillusioned MAGAtard searches for some way, ANY WAY, to make Trump look like he's not a selfish moron who, to be fair, did exactly what he said he was going to do with regards to Ukraine
everything except in the war on the first day. The cutting off aid thing he did pretty gleefully.

>>63929038
Go back to /pol/ if you're going to seethe.

>>63929031
This is cope.

>>63929020
>shame as a political motivator
Obvious woman and democrat

>>63929031
Occam's razor says that your political daddy figure is just a malicious retard who is in cahoots with the enemy.

>>63929034
It would be bad optics otherwise and may have caused some problems. We had B2s parked outside we needed to bomb Iran, if some terror group droned them in response it would be a massive shitshow.

>>63929031

>>63929037
I know you're a shill. But I really hate fucking close minded and retarded the average american is.

"Oh no, we have to spend money on a far away place to prevent nuclear proliferation and stop all sorts of wannabe warlords from just conquering their neighbors because they can get away with it."

>>63929037
>I think at the root of this the electorate understands this is a conflict in a far away place, costs a lot of money, and should be Europe's responsibility
I might be inclined to believe that for more than a fraction of a second if he hadn't gutted the federal government, unlike any other time in our countries history and then STILL raised the debt ceiling by FIVE (5) TRILLION DOLLARS.
anyone who voted for Trump for economic reasons got played, and I will only respect them as men if they admit they got fucking played.
>muh inflation
>muh eggs
I will never forgive (non-MAGA) Republicans and even Democrats who being so fucking useless that they enabled this to happen. AGAIN.

>>63929059
Occam's razor says Trump isn't a Saturday morning cartoon villain, actually.
>>63929052
>>63929063
>No response
Exactly what I thought, better to believe that orange man is literally hitler I guess so you don't have to think about geopolitical intricacies...

>>63928920
For the houthis?
Because you are describing Iran, an irrelevant shithole

>>63929037
See here’s the problem with this logic. I get why Americans don’t want to be involved but we’re not besides aid. We have no boots or planes in this situation. You could have easily made a lend lease case in this conflict but it’s been so twisted into something else I don’t think most people understand anymore

>>63929072
Look I'm not gonna reply to you if you don't know basics about that region, like how the Houthis are funded by Iran.

>>63929065
>"Oh no, we have to spend money on a far away place to prevent nuclear proliferation and stop all sorts of wannabe warlords from just conquering their neighbors because they can get away with it."
It's not even money per se. It's paid-for equipment that would've been dismantled at some point. The EU provides Ukraine most of its liquidity. And no one even thinks about the upside. The upside of making Russia collapse is massive, not only because it prevents all kinds of tinpot retards from starting their own little 3-day special needs operations.

>>63929047
>seethe
yeah anything to own the libs right?
There is no humiliation you faggots wouldn't make this country endure, no amount of corruption you won't tolerate, in the name of "owning the libs".
Not seething but I do find it pretty bleak and depressing.

>>63929071
>Occam's razor says Trump isn't a Saturday morning cartoon villain, actually.
Being a lying boomer conman proves that to be a lie

>>63929037
I can understand democrats being faggy peaceniks who think that everyone will hold hands and sing kumbayah if we just give them money, but I don't understand why republicans suddenly turned into cowards too afraid to take on arguably the biggest threat to American hegemony in the safest and most cost effective way imaginable. MAGA tards screech about DEI and tranny's all day, yet somehow the country responsible for pumping America full of cultural destabilization propaganda is their best fucking friend.

>>63929091
/pol/ is always ready to hear you sperg out about your political boogeymen.

>>63929084
Yeah. My mother is one of those people and she goes back and forth on "It's too much money!", "It's not our problem!" and then fearmongering about Russia nooking.

>>63929071
It's okay to like Trump, but also admit that his Ukraine policy is absolutely retarded, you don't have to make up fanfiction just to justify it.
At the end nobody really cared about Ukraine as far the election went.

>>63929054
>retard doubling down on his retarded choices
Was there ever a fool who wasn't a proud fool?

>>63929071
No one's here thinking that Trump is literally hitler. We're just laughing at your empty copes and mental gymnastics to make his actions look good. You literally have to invent these contrived schemes to make that retarded senile faggot look good.

>>63929108
I've already stated my opinion on the matter, Trump wants the war over and he wants to be associated with it.

>>63929065
Stop calling me a shill just because I disagree with you. It's possible for reasonable to disagree about the propiety of continued aid to Ukraine. You really haven't addressed any of my substantive points. If you think Russia is an existential threat, is close to collapse, and said collapse can be effectuated by American aid then I understand your position.

I dispute the factual basis of all those contentions, especially the last two. I think Russia has a continued capacity to wage this war and that American military aid is not going to make a big difference. I also think there are real concerns about run rates on certain muntions. If that's the case, I really can't countenance sacrificing American military readiness for Ukraine.

>>63929082
I know the houthis are funded by Iran you cocksucking heeb
The houthis hatred of the US stems from its support of Israel though, why are you obviously ignoring this point?
Might it be you have an ulterior motive of framing the US of doing Israels dirty work as a benefit for the US I wonder?

>>63929115
>Its a massive big brained scheme that Trump is unpredictable on purpose to make people listen to him
Look even the legacy media talks about what I'm talking about on both sides.

>>63929066
The federal government should be gutted. Imagine being an establishment weenie in 2025.

>Not understanding the 5D chess move
Ngmi, /k/. What's going on is that Ukraine is now winning after destroying Russia's air force. If Trump were to continue sending weapons to Ukraine, Russia would be forced to admit defeat and the war would end with only 1 million ziggers dead. If Ukraine continues winning, the US might even need to send weapons to Russia to prolong the war enough to achieve TZD.

>>63929091
>no amount of corruption you won't tolerate
only demonRATS can be corrupt
ignore Trump's new plane please
or Melania's crypto scams
or Trump clan's various business deals that have gotten massive boost from their daddy's position

>>63929119
>The Houthis wouldn't hate the US if Israel wasn't supported by the US
Yeah we know, they're Iranian backed terrorists that do the dirty work of Iran.

>>63929102
/pol/? You mean the board where there’s a Trump general established by Reddit refugees? lol well okay.

>>63929136
Yeah the same place full of people seething about their political boogeymen, you'd fit right in with the redditors.

>>63929071
>Trump isn't a Saturday morning cartoon villain, actually.
Who says he is? He just corrupted politician (with real charges against him for said corruption cases lol lmao) that trying to suck money for himself from whoever and whatever the cost.

>>63929097
Russia is not America's friend. We don't do any business. That being said I think being endlessly antagonistic to any country, but especially a country that is a global player like Russia is really fucking stupid. You may have noticed Russia basically just got muscled out of the middle east by this admin. I think the idea he's Putin's buddy is a figment of partisan imaginations.

>>63929132
But iran doesn't hate the US because of Israel?
The houthis do

>>63929131
All out in the open and blessed by the electorate. Unlike whatever the dems do that is covered up and memory holed into oblivion

>>63929143
>by this admin
You mean Zelensky’s? Are you Ukrainian?

>>63929146
How hard is it to understand that the Houthis are backed by Iran and do Iran's bidding?

>>63929107
>"It's not our problem!"
Right, because Israel is. Your mother have a long nose by any chance

>>63929143
Russia the country that actively takes hostile actions in breach of international law against both the US and US allies
>noooo if you kill your enemies they win
Kill yourself

>>63929149
>brazen corruption is a-ok when you smear our faces with it
kek

>>63929031
>You wouldn't want to outwardly reward Ukraine for taking out a tip of the Nuclear trident
Nigga I would reward Ukraine with the nukes they fraudulently gave away for lies (re: "security guarantees") just for making one single zigger slightly more miserable than they were the day before.
Fuck Russia (our most determined enemy), fuck their subhuman orc slaves, and most of all fuck her traitor Western enablers. I hope the latter get ass cancer, because while an orc can't help being subhuman, all of you scum had a choice to be decent and not kow-tow to the country that threatens to murder us all in nuclear hellfire every. single. week.

F-35s, nukes and whatever else it takes to Ukraine. The ziggers they kill today are ziggers we don't have to deal with 20, 30, 50 years down the line.

>>63929153
How hard is it to understand that the houthis are hostile to the US because of its support of Israel, unlike Iran?

>>63929117
>I think Russia has a continued capacity to wage this war
But it doesn't. Russia has been using literal donkeys and dirt bikes in this war. Their soviet stockpiles are completely gone and are begging North Korea for artillery, vehicles and manpower. Even after all that Putin is going forwards with concerns about the Ruble publically and is planning on cutting military spending. That's not something a nation with "Continued capacity to wage a war" does. American aid would assuredly have an effect on this given how even before Russia ran out of armor things like the HIMARS completely mogged Russian equipment.

>Muh run rates
Hey, did you know with Russia out of the picture any potential war with China would require less munitions because the Chinks couldn't tap into Russian support?

If you're not a shill, you're just being deliberately obtuse.

>>63929166
Its hard to understand that the Houthis only have missiles and are doing what they are doing because Iran wants them to?

>>63929172
And they are willing to attack the US because?

>>63929158
No because she hates Israel too.

>>63929181
Because they are backed by Iran...

>>63929143
This is also the same country keeps on sending in fifth columnists all over the world to fuck them over by any means necessary. Those fucks are the reason on why Nuclear power as a major source of energy is just a pipe dream now.

>>63929188
Oh so people are willing to do anything, including attacking the world superpower because someone is willing to fund it?
So if I support you in killing yourself by offering you the money for the rope you surely must do it

>>63929127
Not my point at all (although firing meat inspectors, nuclear weapons experts and national security staffers is fucking retarded).
How the fuck do you gut the government to save money but then still take on 5 TRILLION afterwards? Do you not see what is going on here?
Where do you think that money is gonna go? Not to you or me. But guess who IS going to have to pay for it?
idiot.

>>63929171
I'm not being obtuse. I think you're glancing over the critical issue in all this. Almost all of democracy hinges on the quality of U.S. stockpiles. Between Ukraine, Israel, and prepping for China, those stockpiles are under immense strain. You can read countless articles about this. We are spread to think with retarded allies that can't help us. Matching what Russia is willing to spend in Ukraine could feasible be beyond American capacity.

>>63929192
Russia is also a source of extremely hostile spying and other intelligence ops. Their HUMINT are absolute niggers, even worse than the Chinks.

>>63929195
Entitlements are the issue. Those keep growing, even after the BBB

>>63929194
If you pay enough yes and Yemen's economy ain't shit.

>>63929149
yeah Hunter Biden's laptop was the REAL crime.
>blessed by the electorate
I don't think either of us believe that

>>63929196
And yet they're clearly not willing to spend that, given they're cutting their military spending on an already strained military. So obviously it's working, and the best part if we keep it up we won't have to spend anymore stocks because Ukraine will finish the war!

>>63929207
I'd be more open to aid if Europe didn't send more money to Russia than it does to Ukraine. It seems like a retarded albatross around America's neck.

>>63929205
Burisma was a scandal, the feds intentionally called it Russian disinfo to hide it from the public, there were even polls that indicated that Biden may not have won in key states had enough voters known about it.

>>63929201
But he gutted so many of those programs. And he still needs to raise the debt ceiling by the greatest interval it has ever been raised by? Seems pretty fishy to me.
You can't tell everyone to tighten their belts the most they have ever been tightened, and then take out what amounts to the biggest single loan ever taken. You cannot seriously believe this tripe.
It may be big, and it may be a bill, but it sure shit ain't beautiful.

>>63929230
He hasn't gutted a single entitlement. What are you talking about?

>>63929240
If Musk did it doesn't mean he kept money and walked away. Trump admin still holds money

>>63929247
DOGE really didn't cut entitlements, it came from the discretionary side of things. Entitlements generally refers to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

>>63929201
So does that mean richfags are going to get their tax cut or not?

>>63929227
No one gave a shit about Biden's laptop you dummy.
It was inflation and immigration, across-the-board, and according to every poll, left- and right-leaning. At least 90% of Americans don't know what Burisma is.
And what scandal? Biden's crack-addict son getting a do-nothing job? Everyone looked and looked and looked for Biden admin pay-to-play in Ukraine, but they never ever came up with anything other than wild allegations.
Meanwhile, Trump makes literally $1 billion off his scam coin and tariff manipulation. If Hunter got in trouble for anything, it was for settling for chump change. 12 million ain't shit by comparison, amateur hour.

>>63929254
>Medicare, and Medicaid
They cut those... also they cut fucking Social Sec admin... now there fucking lines every time you go there (even worse than it was before).
My mother requested shit and they already doing it for 4 months due short staff... suppose to be 30 days only
Fucking retarded MAGAts that knows nothing...

>>63929259
In so far as I can tell, there's no cuts to current rates for wealthy Americans. The closest I can find is a change in the way certain capital expenditures are counted which will benefit manufactures whose owners I assume skew wealthy. Most tax cuts relate to admittedly temporary deductions on cash tips, overtime, social security, and american-made auto payments. As well as an expansion of the child tax credit. Those largely phase out around the ~150k income market, so those should benefit more middle and working class cohorts.

>>63929164
>The ziggers they kill today are ziggers we don't have to deal with 20, 30, 50 years down the line.

Finally, someone who gets it.

>>63929275
Again, Im talking about the actual programs, not the personelle administering them, although I'm sure your mother is frustrated and it feels like a cut to her.

>>63929240
I suggest you read the bill and see just what you're clamoring for
>cuts medicare
>cuts medicaid
>cuts SNAP
And guess what a even those "tax breaks" for social security (a program already facing serious funding shortfalls) that are only for boomers REALLY means? That's right! Everyone else gets to pony up.

>>63929299
I've seen no cuts, just changes in eligibility requirements that will reduce the pace those programs expand. I guess it's a cut in an academic sense, but for people that are using those programs it shouldn't matter.

>>63929293
Making people give up because the program is unable to interact with its recipients is the same as a cut.

>>63927968
takes time
>>63928119
im not exactly pro-cutoff ukraine funding but what are the russians actually capable of doing that will really harm US interests? Particularly militarily

>>63928395
>all the F-35 EU customers must be sweating bullets lol
they were since we threatened to cut off technical support for them a few weeks back
I think portugal cancelled their order of them iirc

>>63929306
>adds 3 trillion to the deficit while slashing taxes
Nigga it's a clearly a giant giveaway

>>63929318
The 3 trillion baseline is misleading because it assumes the tax rate goes back to what it was 8 years ago. Relative to how the government has actually been collecting taxes for nearly a decade, the fiscal impact is modest and possibly even positive.

>>63928395
Still trying to push the killswitch bit, huh chang?

>>63929326
3 trillion dollar budget deficit = the budget allocates money 3 trillion dollars less than what it expects to collect in taxes.
Where the fuck are you getting 8 years from?

Do any of you faggots own guns?

>>63929374
i own finger guns you faggot

>>63929355
Im telling you how the additional deficit is being measured. The baseline used by thr CBO assumes taxes revert to their pre-2017 levels. Hence when the GOP makes them permanent, it looks like there's a huge deficit increase when in reality it's going on the same track it has been for the past 8 years. In theory this makes sense if you think the baseline is Congress literally does nothing, but even of the dems were in charge, they would extend most of these taxes.

>>63929386
I’m going to need you to explain how Trump ballooned the national debt during his first term with such policies.

>>63928075
Actual retardation or lining their pockets while they sell us out, fair shot for either

>twatter screencap thread
>9000 replies

>>63929374
You're in an Euro thread, nobody here "owns" anything

They don't seem to understand object permanence and scarcity either

>>63928893

>>63929374
Yes own like 5

>>63927879 (OP)
stocks are running low, unless Israel needs them

>>63929293
>feels like a cut
It is cut lol... tf when program is only on paper... I'm glad that it's satisfy you
You acting is exactly like vatnik that think Pussia is mighty but it's only on paper, while on practice it's not lol...
I see that MAGA is spiritually Pussians indeed lol lmao

>Give weapons to Ukraine >:(
>Give weapons to Israel :D