https://www.kedglobal.com/aerospace-defense/newsView/ked202507020010
>The Polish Ministry of Defense has detailed a major contract for the K2PL tank, valued at $6.7 billion, one of Europe's largest arms deals. The agreement includes 180 K2PL tanks, 80 support vehicles (K2PL ARV, CEV, AVLB), and technology transfer for Polish production. Approximately 60-63 tanks will be assembled in Poland at the Bumar-Łabędy plant, with the rest in South Korea. The first 30 tanks are slated for delivery in 2026. Slovakia and Romania have shown interest. The deal requires Poland to modernize its production facilities, with final details pending the official agreement with South Korea’s Ministry of Defense.

What are the implications of Poland getting more tanks than the rest of Europe combined?

https://zbiam.pl/druga-umowa-na-zakup-czolgow-k2-za-piec-dwunasta/
>The Polish Ministry of Defense announced on July 2, 2025, that it is finalizing a second executive agreement with South Korea for 180 K2 tanks (116-117 K2GF and 63-64 K2PL) and 81 support vehicles, valued at $6.7 billion, one of Europe’s largest arms deals. The contract, set to be signed in late July or early August after South Korea’s new government is sworn in, includes technology transfer for Polish production at Bumar-Łabędy, with 60-61 K2PL tanks assembled locally starting in 2028. Deliveries of K2GF tanks begin in 2026, with support vehicles completed by 2031. The K2PL features enhanced armor, active protection systems, and Polish-made components. Slovakia is a potential buyer for the Polish variant, boosting Poland’s defense industry. Negotiations prioritized taxpayer interests, addressing past oversights.

Looks awfully small.

>>63932494
poland has a history with child soldiers
and those child soldiers will need toys to relieve their stress

>>63932494
Poles are quite compact

>>63932454 (OP)
>What are the implications of Poland getting more tanks than the rest of Europe combined?
the schitzo retard polaks treads become even more unhinged and annoying

>>63932454 (OP)
These niggas love their tanks damn

Poland will realise they have no money to pay for this, then the south koreans will tell them to fuck off.
Like on the last 50 polish "defense deals".

There is a reason they have to buy a 1990's copy of a 1970's tank from korea instead of buying something proper: They pissed off the first tier companies already with this nonsense.

>>63932722
>There is a reason they have to buy a 1990's copy of a 1970's tank from korea
How is this different from buying Abrams or Leopard 2 which are true 70s designs?
>They pissed off the first tier companies already with this nonsense.
Your first tier companies can't even produce vehicles in volume.

Wasn't this deal supposed to be cancelled?
And does that mean they'll finally get rid of the stinky soviet shite?

>>63933235
didn't they just renegotiate the deal? I assume whatever deal previous goverment PIS signed was shitty so they had to fix it
>they'll finally get rid of the stinky soviet shite
no. Poland and ex soviet junk is like mass shootings in US. Can't get rid of it, you can only get used to it

>>63932454 (OP)
you'll never be able to convince me they don't look like shit leclercs

>>63932722
>instead of buying something proper
Other manufacturers can't into actual deliveries. Poland doesn't want those 180 tanks in 2050, they want them ASAP. Simple as.

>>63932454 (OP)
Finalize deez nuts

>>63933488
Not only that, but also Poland would like to have some production at home to strenghten it's own industry. You have to be delusional to think that french, germans and burgers when asked about quick deliveries, production in Poland, vehicle maintenence in Poland, maybe technology transfer and a financing deal for all that on top of that said anything else than "lmao no".

>>63932454 (OP)
>The deal requires Poland to modernize its production facilities
That's weird wording. Shouldn't it be something more like
>The deal allows Poland to modernize its production facilities

>>63933634
they probably can't build these tanks in old mothballed soviet tank factories.

>>63932454 (OP)
It's a good thing poland gets what it can in time and doesn't wait for german Leo production or rely on american supply.
>What are the implications of Poland getting more tanks than the rest of Europe combined?
Lolno
By the time the 3.5% kick in, it probably won't even be #1 in tanks. Germany will have to get hundreds of Leos just to spend all that money. Gonna take a while though because half of europe has ordered Leos.
Also all the tanks poland owns currently don't have APS and are therefore fodder to ATGMs and drones.
Also I would call it a good thing that the germans have competition, but since rheinmetall/leonardo will make the Panther there's plenty of that to go around.

>>63933838
Remind me which country had one or two tanks a year built to keep the skills and factories intact. Someone in that Europe had the good sense to do that.

>>63933860
Building one soviet crapbox per year would have made zero difference in making modern tanks now that it actually became necessary.

>>63932454 (OP)
>What are the implications of Poland getting more tanks than the rest of Europe combined?

Aren't we forgetting someone? 100 Leopard 2A4 and 100 2A6 + some special variants.

>>63932454 (OP)
The Pole that sleeps with his tank is a fool every day but one

>>63933895

>>63932454 (OP)
Doubtless Poland means to reconquer Polish Belarus after Putin dies.

>>63932722
>1990's copy of a 1970's tank from korea instead of buying something proper
You're right, Abrams isn't proper. Not sure why Poland is getting a fleet of Abrams and K2..../s

>>63932475
>second executive agreement
guess what happened to the first. why does south korea want to be fooled twice?

>>63932454 (OP)
>Poland has finalized a deal
>look inside
>not finalized

>>63933860
And they're better than the Korean ones, too.
K2 is pretty damn cool for its weight class, though.

>>63935705
Germans don't produce tanks anymore the chassis of Leopard 2 is built in Greece and the turret from Spain.

>>63935705
>And they're better than the Korean ones
bait.

>>63935660
They've literally just finished the negotiation. The only thing left right now is a signing ceremony, which is nothing more than a formality.

>>63933846
>rheinmetall/leonardo
>kraut+pasta
So massive budget overruns and delays? Gotcha.

I'm really curious whether they finally replaced the Renk transmission with the Korean one, since the former is bound by political crappery.

>>63933297
They already donated all their Twardy T-72's to the Ukies tho.

>>63936694
Both the hull&turret is welded in Greece, spain is only a MRO these days

>>63932784
>>There is a reason they have to buy a 1990's copy of a 1970's tank from korea
>How is this different from buying Abrams or Leopard 2 which are true 70s designs?

Korea's tech is on 1990s level, Leopard 2 has more updates than your mom had lovers and is 2-30 years ahead technologically.
Add to that that the guys who engineered it in the first place can reliably produce it, the Korean copy is nowhere near as good.

>>They pissed off the first tier companies already with this nonsense.
>Your first tier companies can't even produce vehicles in volume.

Uhh KMW has pumped out thousands of Leos and has consistent buyers lined up all the time due to exporting it into 30 countries, how many K2LMAO has korea build? lol.

>>63933488
>Other manufacturers can't into actual deliveries. Poland doesn't want those 180 tanks in 2050, they want them ASAP. Simple as.

If they had paid their original KMW order they would have the tanks by now. KMW has multiple customers which weren't retarded like poland and actually planned ahead their purchase, so ofc poland has to get into line.
But poland refused to pay and wanted free tanks because they had no money because muh WW2 ?!? and hurr durr ukraine. I wonder what their excuse is going to be for the koreans.

>>63936694
Nonsense. They build turrets in Kassel and chassis in München, both in germany.
They're actually building 3 new buildings to extend production right now in germany.

>>63937267
>KMW has multiple customers
How much tanks they produce per year? 20?

>>63937267
germans can't be trusted simple as unfortunately.
look at turkey and france. it's wiser to produce stuff yourself even if it's less high tech than what you can buy from someone else. imagine that you are poland, putin parks his army on your border with belarus and afd wins the election in germany. no more leopards for you, now move your border away from the russians troops lmao.

>>63937513
Again, the actual welding of the chassis and turret is done in Greece (METKA). The assembly of the chassis is done in Allach (Munich), and the turret is put together in Kassel. Final assembly and checkout is done in Munich.

>>63932454 (OP)
Shame that the original K2PL (the one with 7 road wheels) never came to be.

>>63937639
I know KMW very well, I've visited the production lines in person.
Greek tanks were welded in greece, but new tank ordered can and are welded in germany obviously.
KMW has not closed or downsized in decades, on the contrary, they're rapidly expanding production.
These production cycles happen in phases, and a couple of years ago production of new hulls might have not happened for a while in germany since nobody was buying them and what happened was upgrades of older hulls to newer standards.
The Leopard 2 hulls are very robust, basically indestructable.
This does not mean there isn't the capability in germany to weld turrets.
That's quite ludicrous to suggest and shows a profund lack of basic orientation in the industry.

>>63937535
Currently, Germany produces about 24 Leopard27A. It's working to shift production towards the 28A and increase production numbers to a minimum of 100 tanks per year, starting within 2 years. Which probably means it'll take them about 4 years. It's about the same way Poland planned to have those K2PLs produced 2 years ago in Poland, and is still stuck making plans to have them produced in Poland in the next 2 years.

You're all stupid.
Russia and North Korea are allies.
So Poland builds ties with South Korea.
America licks putin and kims holes like a gud boi

>>63937796
Brand new tanks or just upgrades?
In essence, if it's just the case of Ruskie cope

>>63937836
Everything before A8 is just upgrades of older vehicles. They are currently looking at a few hundred newbuilt A8's to be delivered between 2026 and 2030, with KNDS aiming for around 500 in total based on current signed customers and possible sales

>>63937875
Thanks for the info
I shall laugh know

>>63937796
KMW has hit and Rheinmetall has exceeded their production targets as promised in the last few years since the ukraine ramp started.
I mean fucking obviously, they had money and waivers for building permits put into their hands by politicians and they're very solid well managed ancient german companies. They got a moneyprinting license and they're using it.
The comparison with the unfunded polish tractor company who re-branded itself into an arms manufacturer overnight after building a literal cardboard mockup and putting some fancy CGI on their website is cute, but far off from reality.
I posted this when ukraine started, everyone in the german defense industry had a party and emptied the champagne bottles and stocks went up 300%. There's been a "OMG RAMP" panic for years now, quite exhausting desu.

>>63932722
Poland has bought 366 Abrams you IDIOT.

>>63937911
Poland currently has 163 Abrams.
You had to buy these inferior tanks since you pissed off KMW too much.
The fantasy numbers thrown around by you never get actually delivered due to money.

>>63938107
>You had to buy
Moron, your government pushed our previous government into buying more Leos, but PiS didn't do that because of politics. They also had a great pretext due to your low production output and long queues, while Best Korea could provide many K2s in a short amount of time, including the first batches almost immediately.
>inferior tanks
Kek, M1A2 SEPv3 are safer due to separate and isolated crew and ammo departments with blow out panels, also with better armour, especially with the depleted uranium plates. Poland was the first country outside of the U.S. to get the greenlight to receive them.
>The fantasy numbers thrown around by you never get actually delivered due to money.
The fuck are you talking about? The contract for 113 M1A1 FEPs was finalized, and they have been delivered. The contract for the 250 M1A2 SEPv3s has been signed as well and thus far ~50 SEPv3s have been delivered.
Poland also had ~140 K2s delivered as of now.
Combined Poland has received ~300 tanks. Germany would never have supplied so many Leos under such a short amount of time.

>>63938316
The only correct thing in your post is that poland now has 3 different tanks with the same role, a logistical nightmare.
Your insults do not fix reality, but the polish mind has always existed outside of reality.
Who would charge a tank with horses ...
Now poland is trying in a hurry to buy shittons of outdated equipment which is 40-50 year old, mostly failing, and spending an arm and a leg on it.
Very unwise procurement decisions.

>>63937731
>trust me brah
Okay.

>>63932722
They already had an MoU signed with Slovakia on the export of K2PL earlier this year.
https://www.defensemirror.com/news/38915/Poland__Slovakia_Sign_Deal_on_Piorun_Systems__K2_Tanks__155_mm_Ammo_Production
According to the new EU bill you can get a 45 year loan for a military equipment produced in EU with more than 2 users.

>>63938348
>3 different tanks with the same role, a logistical nightmare.
Yeah, because we have short sighted, stupid and traitorous politicians serving foreign interests. If I had any say, we would have only bought K2PLs, with foremost production in Poland as initially planned, not the panic buying PiS did, and the Leos would be put into reserves or sold to get even more K2s.
>Your insults do not fix reality, but the polish mind has always existed outside of reality.
The Germ mind has a superiority complex and always has shown contempt towards its neighbors. This is clear, that's why you don't deserve to rule in the EU, that's for sure, 100%.
>Who would charge a tank with horses ...
We didn't, you disgusting liar, still repeating Goebbel's lies 80 years later.
https://youtu.be/aYFWRRN1qOM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_cavalry#Cavalry_charges_and_propaganda
>outdated equipment which is 40-50 year old
SEPv3 is not outdated. Neither are K2s - especially, is the newest NATO MBT today in use.

P.S. Who's the one existing outside of reality? YOU.

>>63937909
>KMW has hit and Rheinmetall has exceeded their production targets as promised in the last few years since the ukraine ramp started
You >>63937267
>Korea's tech is on 1990s level, Leopard 2 has more updates than your mom had lovers and is 2-30 years ahead technologically.
Pure bias K2 was developed in 2014 and its currently one of the youngest tanks in production.
>Add to that that the guys who engineered it in the first place can reliably produce it, the Korean copy is nowhere near as good.
Again, K2 was designed and engineered by ADD, the DARPA equivalent of Korea. I don't know why you're calling it a copy when the tank itself is of its original.
>Uhh KMW has pumped out thousands of Leos and has consistent buyers lined up all the time due to exporting it into 30 countries, how many K2LMAO has korea build? lol
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/poland-to-receive-full-order-of-180-k2gf-tanks-from-hyundai-rotem-by-2025
All 180 of K2GF ordered in 2022 has been delivered within the span of 4 years. Germans will never catch up with the speed.
>hurr durr muh stupid ww2 victimization
Not only this is a stupid bias, most of the Poles don't even hate Germany anymore. It just went after the offer it had been given, which happened to be a cooperation with Korea.

>>63938399
>They already had an MoU signed with Slovakia on the export of K2PL earlier this year.
>According to the new EU bill you can get a 45 year loan for a military equipment produced in EU with more than 2 users.
Trust me, the Germs will do everything they can in their power to stop that. The EDF is for French but foremost Germ companies to be funded by the whole EU. They want to block EDF funds to the Borsuk platform as of now.

P.S. Fucking perfidious Germkikes...

>>63937731
>basically indestructable.
Funny, is that's why Polish Leos being upgraded to their PL versions were often found with cracks in their hulls during inspections?

>>63937909
>unfunded polish tractor company who re-branded itself into an arms manufacturer overnight
The fuck you even talking about? The Polish tractor company Ursus doesn't exist anymore, and it didn't produce tanks since WW2.
https://youtu.be/prFObP6OTWg
>building a literal cardboard mockup and putting some fancy CGI on their website is cute,
You're talking about OBRUM, which is a military Research and Development Centre for Mechanical Devices... jeez.
The main tank factory in Poland is Bumar-Łabędy, which was able to produce hundreds of T-72s decades ago that were sold around to world, like Iran, Iraq etc. during its better times, or recently to Malaysia.

P.S. Seriously, stfu, just stop talking about things you have no fucking clue about, typical arrogant Germ.

>>63938583
>Ursus doesn't exist anymore, and it didn't produce tanks since WW2.
https://youtu.be/rXxvRe1tkLo

>>63938587

>>63938583
>The main tank factory in Poland is Bumar-Łabędy, which was able to produce hundreds of T-72s decades ago that were sold around to world, like Iran, Iraq etc. during its better times, or recently to Malaysia.
https://youtu.be/SmaG9ZIycJ4

>>63938467
It should be noted that most the K2s given to Poland by SK weren't actually made between 2022 and 2025. A significant percentage of them was taken from the korean army's pre-existing stocks, with the marines in particular having had to put off their upgrades for years so that the order could be fulfilled in time. The chaebol system seems to have dug its claws deep into even the military.

Regardless, I found that I sounded a bit flippant here in regards to german/polish government/corporations hitting their production goals, >>63937796 so I want to add: budget overruns and understated time estimates are simply run of the mill there. The difference compared to lesser systems like those of Russia and China is simply that, despite them, the end result will be very real. Both Germany and Poland WILL hit their production goals sooner or later, and then they will only keep ramping up. Whereas the lesser nations would still be fiddling with trying to keep up the lie and still be embezzling money on production lines that'll never activate.

>>63937683
Yeah, I was looking forward to it... The midget version will have to suffice.

>>63937535
Germany produces 24 Leopard 27A per year. SK produces 26 K2 per year (Hyundai produced only 260 K2 tanks from 2013-2023). Neither numbers are anything to write home about when it comes to a full-scale war scenario.

>>63938724
>A significant percentage of them was taken from the korean army's pre-existing stocks
You're keep spewing lies as if you're breathing.
https://www.president.pl/news/poland-receives-first-consignment-of-korean-tanks-howitzers,62099
Only 6 of the already built K2 that were ordered by the South Korean army have been diverted to Poland which is why there were only 10 delivered in 2022, and it doesn't explain how they delivered the rest of the order at a rate of 45 tanks a year.

>>63938724
>with the marines in particular having had to put off their upgrades for years so that the order could be fulfilled in time
? Nigga what the fuck are you even talking about? The ROKMC doesn't even operate K2, they only have K1 in service.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Korea_Marine_Corps
>muh chaebols
This is literally a QAnon tier conspiracy theory. In reality, chaebols mean nothing in modern South Korean society. The owner of Samsung got arrested for bribery charges and detained for 207 days.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58196575
Do you think they run the state?

>>63939000
I do not understand. You accuse me of being a liar, then directly show that I'm telling the truth. At least 6 out of the initial 10 K2 tanks sent to Poland by SK were GF (Gap Filler) models. There is no information on what the other models were. Fact is though that we also know SK's previous production history and numbers of K2s produced, which averages 26 tanks per year, seeing how they produced only 260 tanks within an entire decade, which only nominally surpasses Germany's 24 tanks per year production.

>>63939040
I stated that SK's marines now have to wait for years for upgrades. They are running the K1 right now. What do you think they wanted to upgrade to and now have to wait for years for?

>>63939040
>Do you think they run the state?
I think AIPAC runs the U.S. state.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0xgCM2pcUI0

>>63939084
>I'm telling the truth
You literally said a significant number of tanks have been diverted, not 6.
>There is no information on what the other models were.
What are you even trying to imply here? The deal was only for one variant, K2GF.
>Fact is though that we also know SK's previous production history and numbers of K2s produced, which averages 26 tanks per year
>which averages 26 tanks per year
>180/4 = 45
Do you not know how to do division? This is getting embarrassing, Anon.

>>63939309
>da joos
Current POTUS has a jewish son-in-law. What are you going to do about it?

>>63939084
>I stated that SK's marines now have to wait for years for upgrades. They are running the K1 right now. What do you think they wanted to upgrade to and now have to wait for years for?
The marines didn't even demand new tanks in the first place. Their priority is getting more air assault capabilities like helos and amphibious vehicles.

>>63939359
Also, cosidering that there were only 10 tanks delievered in 2022. The actual turnover rate is higher than 45.

>>63939371
Yes, and his other son-in-law too, thus Trump's grandkids are Jews. Same with Biden, his daughters married Jews.
>What are you going to do about it?
https://youtu.be/S7PyhTEQYtQ
Me personally? Nothing.
https://youtu.be/OMMThpZ61lA

>>63939000
>>63939359
>>63939403
Germs can do one thing very well, and it is to lie.

>>63939359
I'm glad you doubt me! Now allow me to explain: Yes, at least 6 out of 10 tanks being grabbed from the army is 60%, a significant percentage. I like numbers! Allow me now to further explain the following numbers: From 2013 to 2023, Hyundai produced 260 K2 tanks. That is 26 tanks per year. Considering that they had a belligerent neighbour testing nuclear weapons right on their border, it has to be assumed that 26 tanks per year for 10 years was SK's best. I simply can not think of a better motivator to maximize production than getting regularly threatened by someone who tried to invade my country and is holding my capital hostage with massed pre-sighted artillery, but maybe far easterners think differently.

Next number: The Korean Army reported that their 4th production batch was postponed from 2022-2025 to 2026-2028 to accommodate the export. The executive contract was signed August 26, 2022, with the first 10 tanks arriving on December 5, 2022. This timeframe is physically impossible for new tank production, which typically requires 6-24 months to be set up.
>https://defence24.com/industry/new-developments-in-the-k2pl-programme-polish-mbt-taking-shape
>"Some of the vehicles destined for the ROK Army, coming from the last lot, were redirected to Poland."
>Defense analyst Blake Herzinger noted that South Korea achieved this through "a symbiotic relationship between government and arms companies, where domestic deliveries can be rearranged to meet export orders."
AKA Chaebol telling the Gov it wants to make a quick buck and since the army is forced to buy them anyway, it's better to lock down potential customers and neglect the captive ones (ie: its own army).

Total tanks delivered to Poland per year: 45
Tanks produced per year: 26
Shortfall made up by pulling tanks from the army: 45 - 26 = 19
Conclusion: About 42% of the tanks delivered to Poland each year would be pulled from the South Korean army. A significant percentage, as per my statement.

>>63939827
>From 2013 to 2023, Hyundai produced 260 K2 tanks. That is 26 tanks per year.
>[Citation needed]
Literally no one knows the full details unless you're an insider. Also, Rotem's production capacity has grown over time so your thesis is wrong unless
>https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/poland-to-receive-full-order-of-180-k2gf-tanks-from-hyundai-rotem-by-2025
>The K2GF was developed following a framework contract signed between South Korea and Poland's Armament Agency in July 2022. Hyundai Rotem, the manufacturer, delivered 46 of these tanks by April 2024, with the remaining units scheduled for delivery in stages, aiming to complete the full order of 180 tanks by the end of 2025.
This article indicating that the delivery of 180 K2GF is ending by 2025. So you're lying, again.
>Total tanks delivered to Poland per year: 45
>Tanks produced per year: 26
>Shortfall made up by pulling tanks from the army: 45 - 26 = 19
Utterly made up numbers.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/defence/south-korea-approves-funding-for-third-batch-of-k2-mbts
Even the order for the third batch of K2 production was only passed in September 2022. So unless Rotem was already stockpiling K2 in advance of the actual government orders, your logic doesn't even make sense in the first place.
>Conclusion: About 42% of the tanks delivered to Poland each year would be pulled from the South Korean army. A significant percentage, as per my statement.
>as per my statement.
Wew, man.

>>63936735
>ToT

>>63932454 (OP)
>What are the implications
The board going to shit for a while because poles who have never touched a gun choose to schizopost here daily about shit nobody cares about from their irrelevant "country."

>>63939827
Also, note that the production discontinued between 2015-2019 due to delays in the preparation of transmission modules.

>>63939966
>"country."
Poland is more of a country than yours ever will be.

>>63939966
If you don't like, then you don't have to enter Polish threads, you clown.

>>63939886
Oh that's easy! We know they started mass producing K2s in 2013 because that's when Hyundai started ordering a hundred German MTU power packs for the first units. As it is, a rough 2013 start date for mass production (technically they started 2008, but more on that later) is all I can get from the internets, from just about any source with no detractors. As multiple sources across multiple years, multiple sites and nationalities state that 2013 start date, that's what I'm going with.

There are multiple references to some DAPA whitepaper from 2014 regarding that but that'd require me to sift through about a hundred sites now and I just don't have the patience. What we know: Most journalistic sources say the rough start date of mass production is around 2013. By 2023, they had about 260 K2s. The Korean Army originally request somewhere around 800 or so K2s, but that order was then reduced to something around 300. Presumably, Hyundai had no reason to stop producing the K2 since it could reasonably expect that all of them would be bought eventually, so it had no reason to stop producing, ie 'stockpiling' them.

>>63939978
That doesn't paint a kinder picture. Originally, the K2's production was supposed to start in 2009, but apparently the Koreans couldn't figure out how to make the transmission work. Then they tried to make it work themselves in 2015-2019 again. That seems to have turned out fine enough, but delays like that are just par for the course of the industry. What baffles me is that people seem to try and portray SK as some sort of positive outlier that somehow doesn't have the same hiccups everyone else in the industry suffers, when in fact they do. 26 tanks per year isn't bad in a peacetime economy, there's no need to feel ashamed of that.

>>63932454 (OP)
>What are the implications of Poland getting more tanks than the rest of Europe combined?
The Russians seething fruitlessly cause don't they don't have a single tank capable of even scaring the crew of a K-2PL and the Germans also getting pretty assblasted because they believe that being Poland's sole source of defense products is their Manifest Destiny.

>>63937267
>Korea's tech is on 1990s level
nigga please

>>63940112
>Presumably, Hyundai had no reason to stop producing the K2 since it could reasonably expect that all of them would be bought eventually, so it had no reason to stop producing, ie 'stockpiling' them.
Do you have any tangible fact to back it up? Because it sounds like a schizo theory to me. If anything, Rotem is a listed company so anything pertaining to changes in its financial status would be updated right away.
>26 tanks per year
Dear god, would please stop bludgeoning this monkey job over others? There's not a single K2 produced for 5 years straight between the 1st batch and the 2nd batch, and the latter had finished before the 3rd would even start.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/security/hyundai-rotem-completes-production-of-latest-batches-of-k1a2-and-k2-mbts

>>63940190
Well, Hyundai had no reason to stop producing because it'd know what we know: That SK's army has 5 mechanized divisions that require ~100-120 K2s per division. That means Hyundai was always aware that it would eventually be expected to provide around 600 tanks, and it could be sure that those tanks would be K2s after the success of the first production run. With ~410 K2s planned (260 delivered + 150 in planned fourth batch, tbd in 2024-2028), SK's army remains 190-290 tanks short of the 600-700 tank requirement to replace most of the K1s at least.

On another note: Does SK still operate M48s? I keep reading that, it looks like outdated information to me, but I'd love to be told otherwise. I like the M48, it's such a smooth-looking tank.

>>63940351
>no source
>no financial reports
>just trust me bro
Okay but where are the facts?

>>63940351
>That means Hyundai was always aware that it would eventually be expected to provide around 600 tanks, and it could be sure that those tanks would be K2s after the success of the first production run.
is that legal?
in Germany the arms industry isn't allowed to build something for which there is no order.

>>63940769
No. He's obviously making shits up to save his face.

>>63940888
He has no face.

>>63939040
>chaebols mean nothing in modern South Korean society
Chaebols account for most economic activity and they mean nothing?

Outdated, waste of our money
Domestic capacity to strike targets 2000km away, with zero american involvement (guaranteed backstab, see Ukraine), then same for all critical weapons

>>63941496
T. Zloty Polkaski from Warsyaw oblast

>>63936738
>Twardy T-72's
uhm, actually it's the PT-91 TWARDY

>>63942024
>shameless mutt copes
many such cases

>>63942024
>Warsyaw
>oblast
The utter IDIOT you are...

>>63940161
>Germans also getting pretty assblasted
PiS shill pls go and stay go
Everyone in Europe buys Leo2s, only Poland thinks it's playing some sort of 4D chess by buying SorK tanks
Presumably because the extortion/tech-stealing failed against Germany

>planned
>expected
>deliveries 2031+

lol
LMAO even (as always)

>>63943133
>PiS shill pls go and stay go
Germ shill, please gtfo.
>Everyone in Europe buys Leo2s
Another obvious lie. Also, Slovakia is now interested in the K2PL to be produced in Poland.
>only Poland thinks it's playing some sort of 4D chess by buying SorK tanks
It's about rebuilding own industrial production capacity, including tank production, see T-72 or the planned pic rel Goryl etc. K2 is supposed to be just a quicker steppingstone towards a fully Polish MBT, capabilities which your (and other foreign) lobbyists and our traitorous politicians have made sure to destroy since the 90s. Poland must have its own homegrown and controlled MIC to be truly a sovereign country.
https://youtu.be/Sl5WgO5fG6M

>>63943140
Poland already has had ~140 K2s delivered, tard.

>>63938467
>>Korea's tech is on 1990s level, Leopard 2 has more updates than your mom had lovers and is 2-30 years ahead technologically.
>Pure bias K2 was developed in 2014 and its currently one of the youngest tanks in production.

It uses copies of components germany developepd in 1970's for the Leopard.
The Koreans first bought these components, then reverse engineered and copied them.
Meanwhile MTU and Renk have moved 2 generation onwards, hence why modern MTU engines use half the fuel and need 1/3rd the displacement for the same power output.
You have to realise that korea had zero prior experience in tanks, meanwhile german companies have many many decades and generations of experience, hence why germany is leading in tanks.

>>63938467
>Again, K2 was designed and engineered by ADD, the DARPA equivalent of Korea. I don't know why you're calling it a copy when the tank itself is of its original.

Maybe because every single part in it is a fucking copy of Leopard 2 parts they bought in the 90's?
You can take a german MTU piston and it will fit in the korean K2 engine that's how closely they copied it.
If you were discussing in good faith, or did any research, you could have found out that the early K2 versions all used german components. They used that pretense to get their hands on them to copy them.
There's still lawsuits going on over that btw.

People think a diesel engine is a diesel engine, but diesel engines for cars are high rpm low torque ones, even for a truck torque requirements are lower than for a tank, the loads are different.
For a car, you make millions of engines, for trucks, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands.
For a tank, you make a couple 100 engines.
It is a VERY specialised field and much closer to marine engines desu. There's basically only one true innovating tank diesel engine manufacturer on the planet, MTU in germany. They have a monopoly on good tank engines.

Suck a dick tranny janny

>>63943354
like wall third-world nations, its just license built copies of copies of copies, with some fancy *perk* the western export variant omits to 'spice up the deal' and curb the embarrassment that youre buying a fucking kia-tank

>>63943354
I dont really understand how you are able to put this much effort into a post while at the same time get so many things wrong

>>63943455
go ahead, tell the class what was *wrong* and be specific

>>63943529
Your hubris.

why are germs so mad at Polish standalone, sovereign prosperity?

>>63943581
your defeat was accepted

>>63943657
whose defeat? germs lost in Poland completely
it's ogre for you

btw, Poland has Chinese-level dynamics and production potential
it's twice over for the stagnant, median age 51 germs

>>63943642
Because for some reason Germans become total niggers any time they have to be aware of Polands existence. Thus has ever been the case.

At the outbreak of WWII, Naziggers were strafing women in the fields.

>>63943642

>>63943642
Germany has only 2 modes depending on who is in power, they either don't care at all about Poland or they care enough to drive tanks over it.

>>63943870
>they either don't care at all about Poland
That has never been the case in their history. They always thought about Poland, either loved it and wanted to live in it, or hated it and wanted to conquer it. No exception for the past 1000 years.
https://youtu.be/zdUnSENDUak

>>63943642
more like everyone on this board is always so fucking mad when someone buys any military equipment whatsoever in any amount. everyone always claims its the worst possible deal the equipment is shit, its a terrible choice for the job etc. if you follow all those threads 100% of all military equipment is shit and should never ever be bought, it's fucking annoying, how about a reasonable discussion pointing out pros and cons, but no everyone is too retarded for that

>>63943354
>It uses copies of components germany developepd in 1970's for the Leopard.
[Citation needed]
>The Koreans first bought these components, then reverse engineered and copied them.
[Citation needed]
>Meanwhile MTU and Renk have moved 2 generation onwards, hence why modern MTU engines use half the fuel and need 1/3rd the displacement for the same power output.
[Citation needed]
>You have to realise that korea had zero prior experience in tanks, meanwhile german companies have many many decades and generations of experience, hence why germany is leading in tanks.
[Citation needed]
>Maybe because every single part in it is a fucking copy of Leopard 2 parts they bought in the 90's?
[Citation needed]
>You can take a german MTU piston and it will fit in the korean K2 engine that's how closely they copied it.
[Citation needed]
>If you were discussing in good faith, or did any research, you could have found out that the early K2 versions all used german components. They used that pretense to get their hands on them to copy them.
[Citation needed]
>There's still lawsuits going on over that btw.
[Citation needed]

>>63943449
>>63943455
>>63943954
I'm pretty sure he's the same krautard on twitter who's been spending most of his daytime for the past few years spreading rumors that Trophy won't be equipped besides Leopard 2 which has got the EuroTrophy, which is a german license produced version of Trophy, but only to be denied by the current K2PL configuration.

>>63943529
Sure, might as well. But your post is about as vague as it gets, so not sure how easy it will be.

>It uses copies of components germany developepd in 1970's for the Leopard.
>The Koreans first bought these components, then reverse engineered and copied them.
Could you list these components? Because its not the powerpack, the drive train, the suspension, the cannon, the hydraulic system, the turret drive, the EMES/&PERI, the seats, the autoloader, the electronics, the ballistic computer or the fire fighting equipment, or anything else that make up the tank.

>Meanwhile MTU and Renk have moved 2 generation onwards, hence why modern MTU engines use half the fuel and need 1/3rd the displacement for the same power output.
>You have to realise that korea had zero prior experience in tanks, meanwhile german companies have many many decades and generations of experience, hence why germany is leading in tanks.
So this is where i'm struggling to follow your train of thought.
The K2's MT883 is the latest generation of MTU engines for tanks, while the MB873 for the Leopard has for all intents and purposes been the same way since the 70's, albeit with new generations of MKA/MKE and some pump adjustments due to fuel changes.
I'm partial to the MB873 myself due to the lack of commonrail and the issues that it brings, but it still stands that the MT883 is smaller, lighter but equally powerful to the old Leopard in HP to HP alone.
And they share nothing outside of both being MTU V-12's, including bore, stroke and volume.
Which is why the following makes no sense:
>You can take a german MTU piston and it will fit in the korean K2 engine that's how closely they copied it.
Unless you mean that you can take a german MTU piston out of a MT883 and put it into the DV27K, then yeah sure, but thats because the DV27K is a 1-1 licences copy that the Sorks bought so not really sure where you are going with that?
>There's still lawsuits going on over that btw.
Which ones?

>>63944276
Quit trying to make a sense out of an armatard tier schizo. Last time, he's trying to convince everyone that the Korean manufacturer was hiding its unrecorded number of tanks produced secretly without permissions from the government to keep up with the delivery date. >>63940112 >>63940351

>>63943172
Hi grotard, what's up?

>>63944806

>>63944358
krauts have become quite mindbroken as of late due to the fact that they are nowhere as globally important as they think they are, not to mention their global reputation and soft power.
Case in point. This particularly virulent krauttard must resort to old statistics and fudging details so frame that statistic in the most biased way possible. Not to mention that he also believes that only krauts can increase production but for some reason others can’t.
This is the exact type of kraut who pretends as if the Norwegian tender is the end all be all judgement of tanks (only because they won) and yet not SPGs (only because they lost).
But where others may find annoyance at this display of schnitzel crusted autism, I find satisfaction. Yes, little kraut, keep buying into and propagating your delusions. Ignore the real situation in germany and the real problems that must be addressed (but rarely are because so many krauts are caught up in delusions such as these). Keep spreading lies and stay in denial about Korean engines and transmission.
It is true what they say, all the good germans are gone.

>>63932722
It's okay, EU daddy will pay for it

>>63944358
Yeah i know, its just such a strange hill to die on.
One could make the argument that the Sorks copied/stole shit from the Leclerc, which is plausible in some areas for the untrained eye, (autoloader being a good example) but even there its more a case of "stealing" concepts and ideas and not the actual design.

>>63944276
>Could you list these components? Because its not the powerpack, the drive train
Lying about things even wikipedia states in the article overview?
You completely disqualify yourself for discussion with this.
Notice how even here you can see that the koreans made a heavier engine than the german original from 1970's to hit the same power target ... they're really far behind.
Meanwhile modern MTU engines are 1/3rd the size, use half the power, and produce 130hp more lmao.

>So this is where i'm struggling to follow your train of thought.

Understandable, because:

>The K2's MT883 is the latest generation of MTU engines for tanks

No it isn't that would be the 890 series. Now the 893 which would be the suitable engine for an MBT hasn't been ordered by any customer YET, although it obviously will power the Leopard 3, the 892 does power the german Puma and has been doing so for years already.
The difference is the 892 is a 10 cylinder, the 893 is a 12 cylinder, but it's the same engine series.
There's a flyer (or was, MTU removes shit all the time) about the 6 cylinder, search for 890 engine material or "high power density" and read what you find.
These engines do 100hp/liter. This is the state of the art from ... well over 10 years ago.
MTU is obviously working on the next gen engines already.

Now carefully compare the weight of the korean copy and the 883 original, which is by now an engine 1.5 generations outdated and realise the weight is more in line with the 870 series.

>licence

Not unless MTU gave them a license for free, which they didn't, hence the lawsuit.
If they had a license they would have gotten an engineering package and their engine would be reliable and not 500kg overweight desu.

>>63944358
Idk whatever schizo you are on about, I am not that poster.
Everything i stated is trivially derived from even reading the basic wikipedia article and following the sources in it. It's nothing esoteric, conspiratorial or anything, plain obvious facts.

>>63946056
Germany is irrelevant geopolitically and I have accepted that a long time ago. Obviously I resent it.
But I will not have the glory of german tank engineering besmirched.
It is this strive for perfection, this unwillingness to settle for less, which leads to the technological perfection germans forge on occasion.
We can't build a fucking plane or have independent foreign policy due to the anglo menace enslaving the entire world to fight us, okay, fine. We'll have out retribution one day. I believe the Hollywood myth: The good guys win in the long run. You can have that for now.
What you can not have is unopposed lazy lies about german ground combat equipment.
German ground combat equipment has consistently been the best on the planet for decades, and I will rub the inferiority of your shitty little unreliable underpowered overweight diesel engines right into your brown little mutt faces. Look upon the glorious power density figures germanic ingenuity can produce and be reminded that ultimately you are INFERIOR and do not serve to exist.
German tank diesel engine isn't merely a technological triumph. It is an act of resistance. It is temporary containment, literally weaponized autism, which is lurking, waiting, biding it's time.
You belittle it at your own peril, you should admire it, be in awe of it, and, most importantly be afraid of it.
It is the very force of nature that is aiming to wipe you out and it is stronger than you are.

Give every single fucking pole a K2 tank, we'll still mop them up in 3 weeks because they're weak in spirit.
When did you ever hear of a german company engaging in espionage, licencing other people's technology, etc?
Fuck that we MAKE it ourselves and we deem everything you do inferior because we can do it better.
Poles beg and buy their way into an army and will fail with it just like the arabs.
Disgusting mindset. I spit on it.

>>63946516
This is not political at all, these are key facts to understand the lack of combat effectiveness of the polish soldier employing a reasonably effective weapon system due to spiritual weakness and delusions of grandeur. As quintessentially /k/ as it gets.

>>63946314
>>63946518
>lack of combat effectiveness of the polish soldier employing a reasonably effective weapon system due to spiritual weakness and delusions of grandeur.
>spiritual weakness
Just look at the hubris of the Germbroken mind.
https://youtu.be/c3fp5k8-5KE

>>63946314

>>63946518
>lack of combat effectiveness of the polish soldier employing a reasonably effective weapon system due to spiritual weakness and delusions of grandeur.
>spiritual weakness
Just look at the hubris of the Germbroken mind.
https://youtu.be/c3fp5k8-5KE

Germans seething about Poles not ordering more Leos and not waiting 10 years to get 20 of them like good goys should will never stop being funny.

>>63946824
I love mogging germ cucks as a Pole. No wonder we are now calling the shots. POLSKA GUROM

>>63946497
>>63946516
He's back

>>63946497
>trust wikipedia
>wikipedia article shows nothing about hidden production numbers
What exactly are you on about? Have you been hallucinating?
>It's nothing esoteric, conspiratorial or anything, plain obvious facts.
You've been consistently trying to exclaim that the production rate of K2 is 26/y without acknowledging the fact that the actual production was discontinued from 2015 to 2019. Will you stop pretending that you know anything about weapons procurement? Also, your sentences reek of ESL.

>26 K2s per year

>>63946516
>your brown little mutt faces. Look upon the glorious power density figures germanic ingenuity can produce and be reminded that ultimately you are INFERIOR and do not serve to exist.
>It is the very force of nature that is aiming to wipe you out and it is stronger than you are.
Oh boiii, the Germkike is truly overdosing on superiority complexed hubris copium, oy zwei!
>Give every single fucking pole a K2 tank, we'll still mop them up in 3 weeks because they're weak in spirit.
The 10th (Motorized) Cavalry Brigade hasn't lost one tank battle against the Germ tanks during the September Campaign, and they fought in multiple.
https://youtu.be/tPO4eHQCT-A

>>63937731
>I know KMW very well, I've visited the production lines in person.
Then you are either ancient and went there back in the A4 production, or you visited their production line and Rainer did a bad job of explaining it to you.
There are a constant line of tanks being assembled, modified, checked out and tested at Allach, But all vehicles there are either old vehicles being converted/upgraded, or new chassis from METKA being fitted with everything.

>Greek tanks were welded in greece, but new tank ordered can and are welded in germany obviously.
Greek tanks were welded in Greece, but so were the Qatari ones, the Hungarian ones, the ongoing Norwegian ones and the initial batch of German ones. Highly likely that part (or all, depending on time) of the next German ones will include German chassis, but that capacity is not up as of now.
The welding taking place in Germany has for a long time been limited to upgrading/changing existing A4-chassis into never versions like the A6, A7V etc, but also conversions into LEGUAN, BPZ and the likes(both for KNDS and Rheinmetall)
At Allach they only have a few welding halls for converting existing chassis, not welding new chassis from scratch

>KMW has not closed or downsized in decades, on the contrary, they're rapidly expanding production.
Indeed, and there are at least 2 places that they are looking into (and one already started to take over) establishing the complete production of chassis and turrets, but those are a few years in the future. The space at Allach is currently heavily constrained due to the surrounding area complaining about having a tank factory, ironically. Same goes for Kassel, which has no room to grow at their current location.

KNDS's plan as of now is to focus on R&D / modification work at Allach/Kassel, and leave the assembly of tanks to other locations (Norway, Hungary, etc). Or at least, thats what their development section keeps saying at LEOBEN-meetings.

>>63947224
How long until Russia stops celebrating their independence from Poland?

>>63932494
>WHAT IS THIS!! MBT FOR ANTS??

>>63932454 (OP)
>buying from the gooks instead of buying american or european
As always the poolacks show their filthy hands

>>63951038
>buying american or european
>suffer from constant delays and price gauging
>buying korean
>fastest delivery available
The answer is obvious

>>63951337
>https://www.aviacionline.com/poland-faces-delays-in-the-delivery-of-fa-50pl-fighters-impact-on-training-and-modernization-of-its-air-force
Just like with their f50s? years of promises but no deliveries

>>63936738
Incorrect. I saw at least two in a training facility near where I live last week.

>>63943354
>You can take a german MTU piston and it will fit in the korean K2 engine that's how closely they copied it.
From which MTU engine? The 883?
Because there's quite a bit of difference between the bore/stroke of that and the DV27K

>>63951366
https://milmag.pl/en/the-first-fa-50pl-will-be-ready-in-2025/
>According toinformation provided toMILMAG, it has already completed nearly all the required tests as scheduled. The integration of the new AESA radar requires slightly more work, with flight tests planned for 2025. The final step will be integrating the radar with the approved weaponry.This text comes from MILMAG Military Magazine.

The delays are due to changes in schedules for the test of Phantomstrike™ provided by Raytheon. All of the FA-50GF were delivered on time before then.

>>63951865
No, we're still waiting on 36 FA-50PL with the block20 upgrade that gets postponed year after year.
Buying a jet with the promise of a functioning radar and a/a capabilities and receiving neither is not "delivering on time"

>>63951038
Ehh… you stupid or???

>>63953409
anyone who buys from the gooks is.

>>63939084
https://youtu.be/4EWEJDzaJzI
New documentary on K2 just confirmed K2 is currently being produced at a rate of 10 units per month. Please, quit your low effort shitpost, Hans.

>>63955519
>korean propaganda lies in favor of korean products
lol

>>63955694
>propaganda
Please explain >>63947224

>>63955751
>gap filler models
luls

>>63956701
Gap filler is just basic Korean configuration

>>63946314
>Belgium
>Luxembourg
huh? I thought these were developed countries?

>>63955335
That's not a real argument. Also, Poland has bought US Abrams as well, moron.

>>63955694
>propaganda
Yes, because Germ propaganda is only allowed. The Germ mind is truly broken, absolutely pathetic.
>>63956701
>>gap filler models
Do you even know what the GF is? It's basically a regular K2 with Trophy for Poland, literally a GAP FILLER, until the more advanced K2PL will be finished and Polish factory ready to produce them in Poland, see >>63936735

>>63957408

>>63957408

>>63957452
I dont think the GF has Trophy, its just a standard K2 with polish coms

>>63957408
They'd be net contributors if you removed all the EU institutions based in those two countries.

>>63957504
Ye.

>>63957408
Luxembourg is usually an outlier an all kinds of statistics because the population is fucking tiny, which fucks with the stats.

>>63937683
It'd take too long to develop and produce. Hyundai is already working in the K3 and the K2 is good enough for now and already available.

>>63951516
He might be confusing it with the engine on the K1, which is a cloned and slightly modified Mercedes-Benz/MTU turbo diesel V8.

>>63957408
>>63957471
>>63957492
the northern part of Belgium is a net contributor but their capital region and the southern part are socialist black holes when it comes to money.
There's some 50k town that decided it needed a new train station, got one of the worlds top architects to design it for them and it ended up costing 250 million most of it EU development funds.
It's to the point you can even see the economic difference in the drug use.
In the north it's weed and high quality cocaine, in the south it's just straight up heroin and meth.

>>63937267
you don't know what you're talking about, leopards don't even have active suspension or a modern FCS with an autotracker or radar

>>63937796
>Germany produces about 24 Leopard27A

Which are upgraded Leo2A6, not new build.

>>63938467
>K2 was designed and engineered by ADD, the DARPA equivalent of Korea. I don't know why you're calling it a copy when the tank itself is of its original.

The K2 is heavily based on the Leclerc, I don't know why people are still in denial about this.

>>63958348
>The K2 is heavily based on the Leclerc
>obviously based on K1 which is a variant of Abrams
South Korea didn't even adopt Leclerc so it didn't even have an opportunity to follow its flaws.

>>63958434
The K1 is based on the vehicle that lost to the Abrams back when the Abrams was selected.

>>63958348
Which parts?

>>63937683
>>63958211
Not it's not it's called Altay

Both Poland and Korea could licence back Altay's hull and mate it to K2 turret but they simply chose not to

>>63958434
>Samsung Techwin sent its engineers to study the Leclerc autoloader design and possibly license the technology
>hurr K2 is heavily based on Leclerc

the germans aggressive sperging out about k2 is caused because even norway agreed that it's better than leopard?

>>63958534
>>63958348
>>63958434
The K1 was originally based on an older Chrysler prototype of the M1 that featured an AVCR engine built by Continental who built the AVDS in the M60. It was variable compression and it ended up too complex and unreliable. ADD of Korea got frustrated trying to modify the AVCR and make it reliable especially with Korean summer heat/humidity and replaced it with a MTU modified Mercedes-Benz V8 turbodiesel tank engine related to the MTU V12 in the Leopard 2 that was more reliable. The engine was smaller and the K1 was to be deployed largely in mountains, forests and urban areas so maximal effort was placed on scaling down the vehicle and lightening. This ended up basically being a shrunken Abrams with a German powerplant. Variants with 44 ton and 48 ton armor packages were designed for export to South East Asia and Latin America. Indonesia and Peru looked into these but went for cheaper Soviet based designs, though Peru is now 20 years later looking at a tropicalized K2.

>>63959712
The next block of the Altay is, I think, supposed to have an autoloader. I suspect it will be a vehicle very similar to this K2PL; being a K2 turret mated to an Altay hull. I think the only difference will be more Turkish parts than Korean.

>>63959812
Trve, Germs are PATHETIK.

>>63959837
Ultimately what held K1 potential export is that since it's a licensed version of K1 and uses many of US-origin technology, it is bound by ITAR agreements.

K2 have no such issues.

>>63959945
Funny enough, the US was willing to grant export license to the K1 for a price but the Koreans couldn't afford that without an export contract. At the time it looked like the Brazilian Osorio and French AMX-40 and Vickers tanks were going to dominate the western aligned export market unchallenged so the Koreans never poured serious effort into export. Ironically none of those tanks ever saw export because the cold war ended and there were cheap used Leopards available by the mid 90s

>>63959727
>vehicle layout is almost identical to the Leclerc
>even down to the turret tunnel for the main gun

>>63961445
>vehicle layout is almost identical to the Leclerc
?