>https://www.infodefensa.com/texto-diario/mostrar/5348497/francia-e-italia-plantean-construir-tres-portaaviones-nucleares
What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?

>>63934275 (OP)
To fuck with the remainder of Russia's naval ambitions

With a reactor, you can boil water.
You need to boil water to cook pasta.

>>63934275 (OP)
To finish Justinian's work, obviously.

Italy will use their carrier to bring Africans over with higher efficiency and higher numbers

>>63934314
Only true answer. Thank italian right politicians.

So dumb. What they need instead is to put that money into tanker planes to extend range.

>>63934323
or a real AWACS instead of the jew CAEW

>>63934275 (OP)
It's all hot air and edging until hulls are getting produced

Roma rises again

>>63934305
>>63934275 (OP)
Time for a another crusade on the greek.

>>63934305
Nah, we need to finish Hadrian's work. He gave them genetic schizophrenia. We will give them death

>>63934275 (OP)
>muh what do you need it for
SHALL

>>63934305
Depopulate the Italian peninsula?

>>63934305
Deus vult.

>>63934305
>>63934426
>>63934492
>>63934582
To Continue what Alexander III started

>>63934275 (OP)
SS Lazio just signed Mussolini's great-grandson to play on the right wing

>>63934275 (OP)
>What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?
To dab on iraniggers

>>63934314
>~21 migrants dumped into the heart of france per hour, per aircraft
>50 aircraft per carrier
>1,000 new arrivals per hour
>the yearly expected increase of 320,000 could be matched in ~14 days
>8.6M migrants per year assuming they forego holidays
GIVE ITALY YOUR ENERGY

>>63934302
>"with a nuclear carrier, you can project power anywhere you want" he said to himself, out loud

EVROPA RISES.... VGH...

>>63934275 (OP)
>considering building
we ain't gonna see 'em

>>63935190
>iraniggers
Italy unironically has always had better relations with Iran than any other arab nation

>>63934275 (OP)
Using Newcleo's next-gen reactors I assume? They recently relocated their HQ from the UK to France, but they are Italian in origin and have a research centre there.

>>63934302
"ZIGGERS could be here" he thought, "I've never been to these coordinates before. "There could be ZIGGERS anywhere". The cool Mediterranean wind felt good against his hairy chest. "I HATE THE KUZNETSOV" he thought. Ruggero Leoncavallo's Pagliacci reverberated his entire deck, making it pulsate as the standard issue cherry cordiale circulated through his powerful Roman veins and washed away his (unwarranted) fear of Slavic naval competency. "With a nuclear carrier you can boil pasta anywhere you want" he said to himself, out loud.

>>63934275 (OP)
Franco-Italian projects usually go decently, so best of luck
inb4 Italian version has 20 blessed 76mm OTO

>>63937541
I love OTO Melara

>>63937391
Man that would be cool.

>>63937391
Military naval reactors are completely different beasts.
The reactor that will be on the PANG is an updated version of the one in France's current carrier.
An interview of the company making all french military reactors (in french):
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Lohb8n7bMn0

>>63937614
Isn't CdG's reactor just a larger version of the ones on the French SSNs and as a result is underpowered and the cause of the reliability issues

>>63937695
Its main issue is that it runs of civilian grade fuel so it needs refueling more often. Which wouldn't be that big of a deal if there wasn't only one carrier to compensate.

>no ramp
Bongs BTFO

>>63937734
No, the less enriched fuel is a separate problem and not that big of an issue since its still years between each refuelings, the problem is that the reactor simply doesn't have a big enough power output to drive a ship of that size and all its systems efficiently

>>63934275 (OP)
>France spews some shit out
>Italy laps it up
This is how the FREMM class was born.

>>63938376
more like
>horizon class project gets fucked over by brits
>italy and france continue it and have no issue
>do the same for the FREMM
>profit

>>63938395
>no issue
>completed 4
>cancelled 4
No wonder the French only have one carrier if only half of what they want gets built

>>63938431
the cancelled ones are from the UK

>>63934275 (OP)
>Italy
>already bought and operate F-35Bs
>next gen fighter is not built for carrier capability
Why does Italy need nuclear carriers?

>>63938434
>planned 6
>active: 6
T45 takes the crown again. fremm sissies stay losing.

>>63938444
to build expertise so that they will be able to build one by themselves when they need to retire the F-35Bs

Italy and France, 2 romance countries will build a nuclear carrier together,
Turkey and Spain, 2 muslim countries will build a carrier as well.

>>63938261
>not that big of an issue since its still years between each refuelings
It is a big issue because the carrier spends months in dry dock during the refueling process during which there is no backup carrier to maintain equivalent naval capability in the French navy's case.
Agreed about the output power, but that wasn't the cause of the reliability issues. The biggest issue is that the CdG is rather undersized as a result and less capable than its peers like the QE-class. The newer reactor design has more output power so that should fix these issues hopefully.

>>63934275 (OP)
>are considering
I'll believe it when I see it
the last time this happened, the French cucked out

>>63938533
seriously, is this bait?
I refuse to believe CdG can't operate as many sorties as QE

>>63938821
Not OP but QE class are 50% heavier than CdG.
Also the CdG can't launch and retrieve planes in the same time because of it's limited size.
Considering those two points alone, I wouldn't be surprised CdG can't operate as many sorties as QE class.
However, because of its catapult, CdG can operate heavier planes than QE class.
So planes launched from CdG are loaded with more weapons and more fuel. They also can be radar planes.
Overall, even if the CdG can't operate as many sorties than the QE class, CdG offers more capabilities and possibilities to the French Navy than QE class offers to the Royal Navy.

>>63938456
>planned: 39 (I don't consider BurgEMM to be part of the same class)
>canceled: 9
>active: 21
FREMM chads stay winning

>>63938261
Have you ever heard of the Enterprise? I have 8 solutions to that problem

>>63934302
Of course, the special pasta cooker will be included, even if that delays the development.

>>63934302
The nuclear power provides a logistics bonus as you have to carry less fuel when playing as the Italian forces to boil your pasta rations.

>>63939278
>CdG can operate heavier planes than QE class
meh, difference between Rafale-M and F-35B isn't that much, and I personally prefer the F-35's capabilities
it's CDG's sortie rate that I did not know about

for the record, I think the French should have gone for PA2

>>63939652
>meh, difference between Rafale-M and F-35B isn't that much
On the paper, yes. But in real life, F-35B taking off QE class are not loaded to their full potential because of the ramp. You must choose between full tank or full internal bay. Not both. And considering the F35B initial short range, you must plan an air refueling if their tank are not full when taking off.

>>63940103
>source: my ass

>>63940127
I spoke to my ass, and it has a riddle for you:
If planes can take off fully loaded with a ramp, why do Americans, the French, and now the Chinese waste money building catapults on their aircraft carriers?

>>63940149
>motte and bailey argument
>y-y-you're the retard not me

>>63940149
post your gross vehicle max weights for catobar vs stobar

>>63940235
>>63940430
he's right though
i think it's pretty fucking obvious that a plane getting catapulted by a massive fucking ship can reach takeoff speed with far more weight than on it's own power and using a ramp to give it more time to build speed.
t. carrierless nation so no dog in the fight

>>63940454
entirely depends on the design of the aircraft

>>63938821
And the French always cuck out. They can’t afford a super carrier. They have too many Muslims they must feed and blue tranny sex predators they must buy medals for.

>>63939278
Sound like they should work together to cover each others weaknesses to me

>>63934320
>>63936046
Interesting angle of shilling considering the opposite is happening, but you do you seethers.

>>63940700
Meloni has just approved one of the largest-ever entries of legal immigrants into Italy. 500k in the next few years, google "Decreto Flussi".
t. Shitalian.

>>63934275 (OP)
Why do they need a navy if they can't use it to stop millions of niggers on rubber dinghies?

>>63940700
>considering the opposite is happening
rightoids always live in a fantasy world of make believe

>>63942130
why does the US need an Army then?

>>63940538
>blue tranny sex predators they must buy medals for.

>>63934497
based

I love the new italian carrier, it's a bit smaller, but will do the job.

>>63940538
t. Vadym Churkanovich from Paris oblast

Is nuclear propulsion even useful in that size?
The US scrapped all their nuclear cruisers and their smaller aircraft carriers (LHA/LHD) also use conventional engines.

>>63942527
looks cooler from sea level

>>63942703
it's more about getting experience in building nuclear carriers for the future

>>63942760
France already has that.

>>63934275 (OP)
>What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?
It doesnt matter.
Cuckrope doesnt have political will to use them if they build these things.

>>63942854
That was certainly true a few years ago but the times they are a-changing
It may yet turn out that all Putin has actually done is awaken a sleeping giant, and fill it with terrible resolve

>>63942852
Italy doesn't, and France doesn't have the money to build more by herself.

>>63942703
The new French carrier should be about 80ktons so it should be worth it
Besides, if they put laser weapons and antiballistic radars on her, they will need oodles of power

>>63934275 (OP)
... It's been years and years (at least since the late 1980) In france we start to talk about getting a new nuclear aircraft carrier to replace the CdG. And now this ?
Don't make me laugh

>>63934275 (OP)
EU needs carrier strike groups since the US cannot be relied on to provide assistance in a conflict. So why not France and Italy?

>>63938533
>It is a big issue because the carrier spends months in dry dock during the refueling process during which there is no backup carrier to maintain equivalent naval capability in the French navy's case.
No, retard. EVERY ship has to periodically go into dry dock. The refuelling process is done during regular refits.It has no incidence on the overall availability.

>>63943553
CdG wasn't even in laid down before 1989. Talking about the successor before you start building is very progressive

>>63946178
Eventual long term goal of 2 large carriers per large european powers would be ideal (I include the bogs in this) with the smol Euro nabal powers providing extra escorts augmentation

>>63946178
>>63948112
most NATO Europe nations save the ones discussed below should focus on providing AA, ASW and submarine escort groups. there's really no need for anything else. even if collectively all the money is there, it's just not possible to have everyone "chip in" and buy two shared "Eurocarriers" - the political entanglements mean that they'll end up not doing anything, in practice

individually, few Euro states can afford the minimum of two (2) carriers, only the three richest, i.e. Germany, UK or France
of which Germany has no interest in naval shit, has no institutional knowledge in carrier ops whatsoever, and really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near capital ships. they're a fine choice for funding AA destroyers however
in any case Germany has no inherent geopolitical interest in maritime power projection and mainly contributes a large land-air mechanised force.

Italy is poorer and doesn't have as much defence spending (or inclination to project power) so they should stick to providing a balanced land-air force, like Germany
the only reason they have LHAs is because they have a few islands and fantasise that they might need to retake them by amphibious assault. bit far-fetched if you ask me but there it is

ditto Spain

I don't think I need to go into all the reasons the UK is ideal for providing Europe's main carrier capability. however they do this at the cost of a small, barely-mechanised army

France is rich enough to choose to be either a maritime or land power, but not so rich that it can do both. it can't maintain both a land combat division (like Germany) AND a carrier (like UK) at high readiness
worse, they also decided to maintain an amphibious capability (the Mistrals) which further diverts money which could have been used for a second carrier
France could have given up the carrier idea and built an armoured division,
or
built a UK-like military with 2 carriers
as it is, they're neither here not there

>>63948773
Nice fanfic

>>63938525
that deck design is fucking awful

>>63951946
muslims/spaniards cannot innovate

>>63948773
it has fuckall to do with affording, nigga.
technically, the the benelux spending 5% of it's gdp could allocate half of half of that budget to building a decked out american supercarrier + escorts and maintain them. but that's not how that works, the expertise isn't there and the sailors needed to man it aren't there.

>>63952413
>technically

>>63940700
Numbers literally rose sharply since she became prime minister. And now she wants to import another half a million directly.

>>63934275 (OP)
>France: Demands that the carriers be built to suit French 'needs'
>designed by French companies
>built in French shipyards
>crewed by French sailors
>captained by French officers
>but to show that they're not trying to monopolize the project they'll let Italy pay for the construction, operation, and maintenance of the ships
Why does anybody even return France's calls at this point?

>>63935000
>Alexander III
Intense reactionarism and mostly peaceful relations with neighbors?

>>63955284
they are demanding that of Germany with the FCAS yet they didn't demand it with Italy with the Horizon class, the Fremm nor the ATR42/72.

>>63934275 (OP)

Better give them really cool names. The Louis XIV or something else bad ass.

>>63934275 (OP)
To defend greenland from taco

>>63955430
>Portaerei Giulio Cesare

>>63934275 (OP)
Unfortunately it seems the EU will have to fight the yanks soon to keep them out of Greenland and Canada so we're gonna need a big Atlantic Navy. This works well because the US will have to have its majority of navy in the Pacific while Russias rust barges are sitting nicely in their Black sea and Baltic cuck-cages

>>63955699
>EU will have to fight the yanks
20 years and there will be no yanks. they are already 41% white while the median in the EU is 90%. A few percentages less and the US will turn like South America and have no interest in the outside world.

>>63948773
>Italy poor
Italy is the 8th largest economy on earth. Infront of Russia and South Korea.

>>63934275 (OP)
>What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?
It's not the BILL A DO NEEDSO

>>63934275 (OP)
>What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?
They don't, which is why this won't happen. Italy has almost no domestic nuclear industry and their entire naval air wing is based off S/VTOL aircraft (meaning they would get minimal benefits from nuclear carriers).

>>63955336
OK Pierre

>>63952552
good job, you read the post.

>>63955699
>>63955731
all very nice thirdie talking points but have you considered suck-starting a shotgun?

right now italy just christened a LHD/carrier and is in the process of modernizing its entire fleet. there are like 5-6 projects pending. and they just now started to dabble in the nuclear sector, i doubt they're willing to build a nuclear carrier now, especially since they have no real threat outside the mediterranean and don't have to move large air wings across oceans like france does.
come to think of it, the privilege of owning a handful of uninhabitated islands in the middle of the pacific comes with quite a hefty price

>>63956302
you're more thirdie than US, you know? Be it average skin color, average IQ, average standards of living etc. Remove the top 100 richest people in the US and your median income is even lower than most EU countries.

>>63955738
poorER, not poor

>>63956706
lot of shit talking for someone who doesn't understand what "median" is

>Remove the top 100 richest people in the US and
the median American still earns $60,000 and pays less income tax and less service tax (VAT)
the MEAN European earns €38,000 and pays more income tax and higher VAT

>>63956772
How come then the average European lives such a better life? Better food, better healthcare, less debt, less stress, less cancer rates, less violence and crimes etc?

>>63956790

>>63956794

>>63956790
Because you have no MIC

>>63956790
>How come then the average European lives such a better life?
Who says they do?
memes posted on the Internet for shits and giggles?
European Governments eager to assure you that their decisions are indubitably better?
what makes you think these perceptions of yours are any more accurate than your perceptions of the simple financial metrics which you just got fact-checked on?

besides, if you eliminate the problems caused by the bottom 13% of America, the remaining 50% suddenly looks great

a third reason is that Americans mainly create their own problems. for example, if they had a little more self-control, they would not eat so much and would watch their diet like more Europeans do
then they would enjoy better food, not need to spend so much on healthcare, thus incur less debt, be less stressed out, etc
Americans actually have a good life. the median American, provably, has a much better life, much better opportunities, than the median European
but they SQUANDER their lives and their opportunities
that's the real American problem, disguised by the stupid memes posted by morons with no actual knowledge of the world outside their thick skulls

in any case maybe Europeans should sort out their own problems instead of taking out their frustrations on the Americans

>>63956772
The median American does not have even one month of paid leave, let alone separate sick leave

>>63956706
you don't even know where i'm from, lol.
stop trying so hard with the D&C retard.

>>63956794
>>63956812
Regulating shit ass corporations is good.

The bottle cap is good, whiny fag.

Anyway it's insane how obvious it is when a poster has never spent any meaningful amount of time in Europe. Quality of life in fucking Czechia is higher than it is for the average American, and they are both poorer than the US and still recovering from a brutal rape by the Soviets that lasted multiple decades.

Meanwhile things in the US have been getting gradually worse year over year and we have no excuse.

Coming home to the US from Europe is always a mixed experience. I love America, but we're squandering our potential and handing unchecked power to corporates in a really bad way.

>>63956857
>muh individual responsibility is the solution to societal and systemic issues
kek

>>63956884
correction: there are no federal American laws requiring paid leave and sick leave; there are state laws and there is market practice
European Governments who have to obey the European Union regulations on this make much hay about this, and so do employers, in order to convince European employees to be grateful for their pay and benefits

but you can do the numbers yourself and figure out what unpaid leave at $60,000 a year and EU-scale paid leave at €38,000 a year adds up to

>>63956903
>societal and systemic issues are not really the result of millions of individuals all making the same stupid mistakes
tsk

>>63956926
American median is 14 days of leave. That includes sick days. Americans don't have mandated national holidays either, whereas EU national average is 10-14 days of mandated national holidays. You literally work on Easter.

>>63956958
if Europeans are happy with lower wages and higher taxes, so long as they have guaranteed paid leave, who am I to judge?

>>63956896
as a euro it baffles me how the US technically has more wealth and then fucks it up in the most retarded ways possible.
no doubt many leftists have been pushing the "ban cars" nonsense in the US, but this is the result once again of americans and canucks coming to a place like the netherlands and not actually understanding why our infrastructure is so much healthier and less depressing (hint: it's not because there's less cars here, there arguably aren't)
it's hard for me to understand why US zoning laws are the way they are, because you could drastically improve the american experience in every way just by removing that bullshit.

>>63956964
Many Americans are happy with 1/3rd of the time off than any EU citizen, unpaid overtime and having to work two jobs, so I don't judge either.

>>63956978
>having to work two jobs
170 million Americans work
9 million work more than one job

once again, factchecked on some silly meme

>>63956857
>Who says they do?
Europeans and americans who have lived in both places

>>63956896
Having been to Europe many times and traveled to 43 US states. Europe has many cracks beneath the surface than you realize. In fact, I more frequently find myself disappointed with Europe and Europeans as I get older and travel more.

>>63956984
I said "many". 9 million, 5,29% of the workforce, is quite many.
I wonder how many of those 170 million are happy with their time off though, especially if they learn that they slave away while a European is on the beach.

>>63956997
>if they learn that they slave away while a European is on the beach
I don't think they care. You're not that important.

>>63957006
It was a figure of speech. Though knowing Americans, they're completely happy with their lot and will never even keep the few holidays they're entitled to, lest their employer thinks that they're lazy. Also those meds for blood pressure and stress-induced illnesses don't pay themselves.

>>63956997
>5,29% of the workforce, is quite many
it's barely statistically significant, buddy

>how many of those 170 million are happy with their time off
for those who can do simple maths, unlike you, quite happy

>>63957035
>it's barely statistically significant, buddy
over 5% is statistically significant, and not only "barely"
>unlike you
let's see Paul Allen's calculation

>>63957014
>more smug, self important bullshit
This why I haven't respected Europeans since I was like 8 years old.

>>63957088
Kinda ironic coming from an american

>>63957148
Definitely haven't heard that one since I was a child. Christ, you people really can't innovate.

>>63956977
I want to say it baffles me too anon, but unfortunately it's obvious how we got here. The US has major issues with corruption, but not the obvious kinds that you see in other nations. You see that stuff at small scale, but the most problematic corruption in the US is mostly in the form of corporate lobbying power of exerting influence on the government. Both elected representatives and unelected government positions are influenced by this. The guilty parties are very good at keeping everything "legal" and plausibly deniable so it doesn't make for scandals, but it's 100% why we have such terrible zoning and regulations. It's also largely to blame for the poor state of our infrastructure.

You're right about Americans, usually left leaning, coming to the wrong conclusions about how to change things after visiting Europe. It's not a matter of banning cars, it's about better infrastructure and zoning to make our cities and towns better for people. We can keep our cars and still make things better.

We need a day of reckoning for our government officials and the corporate powers they've been serving for decades, and until that happens nothing will change. They know it too, so they are willing to invest heavily in information warfare and disrupting any movement which could make these changes.

>>63956994
European nations have their issues as well, I won't deny it. If I thought it was flat out better than the US, I would move because in my line of work or would be easy to get a visa. In some ways though, it's inarguable that they are doing better than us. They're getting more for their money, even though they have less of it. That's for sure. I love America though and I want things to be better here, and there's aot that is still good. We just need to protect it and turn things around.

>>63957071
>and not only "barely"
0.05 is the typical threshold of significance in the vast majority of social statistics
>let's see Paul Allen's calculation
very well, since I have to spell it out

if I earn $60,000 a year, and you earn €38,000 a year, and I take two months' unpaid leave, who earns more in one year?
feel free to count on your fingers and toes if you need to, I'll wait

>>63934275 (OP)
The scrweing up union will use them against (you)

USA helped Russia during WW2 to avoid a big Europe. USA will help Russia again if they feel that UE might extend into east and is not umder USA controll anymore.

>>63938525
Spain is not a Muslim country, you dirty Moor

>>63934275 (OP)
do they have taco tuesdays on these french and italian boats?

>>63957356
>two months' leave
No wonder you guys can't keep up. You're all lazy sacks of shit.

>>63957742
back then the USA was strong, but now it's weak and divided. it's still a major threat, but its main quarrel lies within the heart of itself, americans are disillusioned and apathetic, just like the russians. there will be no support for a war against the EU, at most the tacit willingness to isolate themselves further from the world and curl into a ball until they all turn into toothless rednecks

>>63957742
Cool fantasy Vanya

>>63940103
>>63940149
NTA but F-35B absolutely can go at MTOW using the full run on a QE.

As for the reasons US & FR use nuclear CATOBAR?

US: sortie generation, launch and recovery of heavy aircraft including COD for sustainment in the western Pacific, but also institutional inertia. Remember the F-35B is a very new development comparatively and utterly mogs the Harrier in capability. At the scales the US works at the extra capability comes at a very small additional cost per unit.

FR: 'Prestige' and nothing else. They made the opposite choice than the UK's pragmatic one for best capability:cost and instead make a tiny, underpowered nuclear carrier that can't even launch a fully loaded rafale in order to shout that they, on paper, have a 'nuclear CATOBAR' carrier and therefore the French naval industry is amazing and you should buy french ships. They are wrong. Pure Russian Potemkin logic.

>>63957993

>>63957982
about 80% of the nation is aligned against the neoliberal/leftist movement right now. obviously you were not invited. not our problem and even less so if war does break out.

>>63957982
This reads almost verbatim like what Arabs were saying in the '10s when the US was losing interest in remaining in the Middle East lmao

>>63955430
You will have Richelieu class CV and you will like it

>>63939278
>>63957993
does a full run prevent launching and retrieving planes at the same time?

>>63957981
Humans are made for something else than slaving away for someone else's profits, like hobbies and spending time with loved ones

>>63934275 (OP)
Mare Nostrum means Mare Nostrum.

>>63959391
Fuck off Holden, you ain't the judge of nothing.

>>63956772
>the median American still earns $60,000 and pays less income tax and less service tax (VAT)
>the MEAN European earns €38,000 and pays more income tax and higher VAT
Impressive, very nice. Now show the annual leave card.

>>63956857
>Who says they do?
>memes posted on the Internet for shits and giggles?
Actual statistics on annual leave taken, life expectancy and happiness index, homicide rate per capita etc.

>>63956926
>there are no federal American laws requiring paid leave and sick leave; there are state laws and there is market practice
Half of Americans don't take annual leave and getting 2 weeks makes you susceptible to being fired.

>>63957356
>if I earn $60,000 a year, and you earn €38,000 a year, and I take two months' unpaid leave, who earns more in one year?

I don't care about earning more, I care about having more days off.

>>63959622
>happiness index
totally emotive and pointless bullshit that certain governments trumpet because so long as people "feel" as happy as pigs in shit, they can stay in the shit
have you ever seen an unhappy crackhead?
>life expectancy
>homicide rate per capita
13 gets you 50; once you eliminate that demographic, you eliminate a lot of skew and the statistics much more resemble the OECD standard
>Half of Americans don't take annual leave and getting 2 weeks makes you susceptible to being fired
nice meme
>I don't care about earning more
so be it

>>63959697
>13 gets you 50; once you eliminate that demographic
>once you eliminate that demographic
And once Poland has a golden asteroid it will be the richest country on Earth.
You have that demographic, you are not changing the demographic and your condition remains the same.
For the record even white only homicide is higher than in most European countries.

>>63946178
>EU needs carrier strike groups since the US cannot be relied on to provide assistance in a conflict.
What kind of conflict will the EU face that will require CSGs?

>>63959625
Americans also work while sick on average because those sick days are either unpaid or reduce annual leave days

>>63959770
Greenland/Iceland/Svalbard incursion in the north or Azores/Canarias incursion in the southwest

>>63957993
eh just ignore bait

>>63959322
that's mainly an issue for deck handling

>>63956706
Until tax day Europoor. Meaning every day.
Dumb faggot.

>>63959852
>low taxes and absurd prices everywhere = poorer and no services
>higher taxes, better services, better enviroment, better food, better health = more money for whatever I want at the end of the month.
I bet you rent.

>unemployment how to apply
>dole money amount
>divorced soon lawyer do i need
>let go of job what now
>formula 1 job postings team principal
>formula 2 job postings team principal
>formula 3 job postings team principal
>euro formula job postings team principal
>wec job postings team principal
>tax rebate unemployed
>alimony how big

>>63934275 (OP)
>nuclear carriers
max kek
these retards are stuck in 1980s.
carriers are already an antiquated platform in 2025 and they'll be undeployable in 2035 when these things will be built.

>>63959852
>revolt against a low tax on a limited list of consumer goods imports that the average american spends less than 1% of their income on
>accept federal income tax, social security contribution and state+local vat

>>63960099
>says the armchair expert

>>63960506
Remember what Houthis did to USS Harry S. Truman? Pepperidge farm remembers.
In a conflict with a non-failed state, these carriers wouldn't last even 48 hrs.
In the age of hypersonics and drone warfare, carriers are a liability.

>>63960531
Jesus Christ lmao it's so obvious you're a vatnik. What's the status of the Krunezof? Last time it was at sea it had a revolutionary anti satellite smoke screen.

>>63956706
Removing 100 people would have almost zero effect on the median. I thought you yuros were supposed to get a proper education.

>>63960531
>Remember what Houthis did to USS Harry S. Truman?
Nothing. They did absolutely nothing to it, you pathetic faggot.

>>63960743
>Nothing. They did absolutely nothing to it, you pathetic faggot.
Not according to NYTimes.

>>63960792
Proof it sunk/got hit/damaged in any way?

>>63934275 (OP)
>France is thinking about doing anything about something.
Yeah right. We import 500 000 new brownies every year last 40 years and we have several hundreds of thousands more who just get birthed same scale. France can consider whatever the fuck, it's embrowning so fast nobody will do anything anymore.

>>63960886
>every year last 40 year
you had overseas territory since the 15s filled with them

>>63960853
>>63960792
You gonna post the proofs or not? Is it damaged? Is it sunk? Why has it arrived in Norfolk without visible damage?

>>63960853
>>63960954
How many F-18s were lost due to Houthis attacking the CVN?

>>63960964

>>63960531
>Remember what Houthis did to USS Harry S. Truman? Pepperidge farm remembers.
>In a conflict with a non-failed state, these carriers wouldn't last even 48 hrs.
>In the age of hypersonics and drone warfare, carriers are a liability.
>>63960792
>>Nothing. They did absolutely nothing to it, you pathetic faggot.
>Not according to NYTimes.

So what did the Houthis do to the carrier itself? Or are you just gonna walk back from your original claim that carriers are obsolete like a pussy ass bitch after getting challenged? CARRIER, not PLANE.

>>63960906
and you dont import them lmao,why are white people so fucking racially suicidal? like 9/10 White people I know hate themselves and their heritage

What in the fuck actual... what understanding of America do you have?
>>63960148
That's how you get rope
>>63959884
you are using the urban experience, i.e. NegroLand
I don't need your services nor your servile mindset.
>>63959788
RETARDS. We get 12 sick days AT LEAST. You can take all or none, you cannot be fucked with about it. Sick and leave are legally separate. You also have to have breaks and no plutonium juice in your workplaces.
>>63959625
You can't be fired for using approved time, "vacation" or "personal", that is part of your PAY. You cannot be denied your time by the end of the year.

I was a union steward. Meetings with management were not comfortable for them. I am not a comfortable person. Take russel brand, and give him muscle from 20 years of highway work, make him 185 lbs, dress him vaguely like Stone Cold Steve Austin.
If you are Karen from management, generally you ask for a cop to sit in on meetings since one is next door to town hall, even if I've never hurt a fly.
And when it's time to talk about labor law, suddenly this country is as liberal as fuck and you need to start writing checks before I frown.

>>63956794
>>63956812
Oh noes, not muh regulations taking away my right to be raped up the ass by corporate shittery with no working recourse!

>>63961006
They fired stuff at it, CVN had to pull off some hard evasive moves and lost several planes doing so. Few days later, the US gave up and CVN GTFO quickly.

>>63961012
But, that's not what my state sponsored media says. How dare you, an American, contradict us, Europeans?! You're undermining transatlantic relations!

>>63960531
>Remember what Houthis did to USS Harry S. Truman?
Posting dumb lies on Twitter about her?

>>63960964
Same number as the number of hits these retards landed on the ship: Zero.

>>63961034
I was elbow deep in labor law, idk I thought it was common knowledge how fucking tight workplaces are and how fast any random nobody can report you to hell. Europoor immigrants aren't even able to read the safety signs.

>>63961012
>Lemme counter your statistical facts with personal anecdotes of mine!
This is what burger cope always arrives at when talking about how they're totally not getting fucked up the ass by their corporate masters on a regular basis.

>>63961027
>several planes
Cool story, bro.

PS: Losing planes does not make carriers obsolete, either, you absolute subhuman retard.

>>63961050
I can't be wrong; I'm European. You are not allowed to contradict me, American.

>>63961059
>Losing planes does not make carriers obsolete,
Zircon, P-800, YJ-21, Brahmos, etc sure do make them obsolete.

>>63961012
>We get 12 sick days AT LEAST.
No you don't

>You can't be fired for using approved time, "vacation" or "personal", that is part of your PAY. You cannot be denied your time by the end of the year
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/more-than-4-in-10-u-s-workers-dont-take-all-their-paid-time-off/
>About a quarter (24%) of workers who have been with their employer for less than a year say that the risk of losing their job is a reason they don’t take more time off. A similar share (21%) of workers who have been with their employer for between one and five years say this. More tenured workers are less likely to say this is a reason they don’t take all their available time off (11% say this).

>>63961027
>lost several planes
They lost exactly one (1) (I) (UNO). Just why the fuck do you keep lying about easily disprovable shit? And why the fuck did you walk back from your original claim that they damaged or did something to the carrier itself, huh?

>>63961212
>They lost exactly one
Lost 3 actually.
https://theaviationist.com/2025/05/07/third-super-hornet-lost-truman/

>>63961237
Your claim was about this one particular event. You said that they lost several planes to this attack, which they didn't. Overall they lost 1 hornet to friendly fire, 1 to pilot error and 1 because it wasn't properly ssecured for maneuvering. So please explain, you lying subhuman, how does that make carriers obsolete?

>>63961207
"don’t feel they need to take more time off (52%)"
"or that they might risk losing their job (16%)"
FROM YOUR OWN NIGGER ARTICLE WITH A SLOP METHOD. You still can't be right. Fucking retard.

>>63961325
>16% of Americans risk losing their jobs if they hold a vacation
kek

>>63942124
I've read it. Seems ok? Allow a bunch of temporary workers in, Severely restrict conversion into residence permits (5k per year), basically ban refugees (50 per year)... Its a damn sight better than the free for all taking place across the west. IF the letter of the law is stuck to, that is.

People who are coming explicitly to work and have jobs waiting for them isn't a problem, especially when they are not allowed to get residence. Its parasites that are the problem

>>63963693
The UK averages 700k per YEAR. That's true insanity, and they get full rights to leech of the state and shit out children (also paid for by the state)

>>63961008
jews

Fincantieri started today officially building the new FREMM EVO

>you're brown!
>no, YOU are brown!
Fucking poltards ruining every board with their childish bickering. Jump off a bridge pr something.

>>63963872
I bet good money both are indians larping as europeans and americans

>>63961088
>all these fanfic missiles will make them obsolete!
Lol

So these would be jointly owned carriers?

How would that even work
Both nations have crew onboard?
Who is in charge? How does any mission planning work at the higher levels when you are now running through two different chains of commands logistics chains and political ambitions

>>63934275 (OP)
>What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?

You know, propulsion....

>>63934275 (OP)
>What the fuck does Italy need a nuclear carrier for?

For all the benefits a nuclear carrier has? Are you so retarded to ask this question?

The power projection capability of nuclear ships is by far superior to any conventional ship.

>>63963913
>Who is in charge? How does any mission planning work at the higher levels when you are now running through two different chains of commands logistics chains and political ambitions
They're both in NATO and EU, the only real point of contention is operational language

>>63963968
what's with americans and their obsession over language barriers? everyone in europe is fluent in english nowadays, military operators are all required to understand english, how would joint operations and international exercises work otherwise?

>>63963693
It's a higher number of people than every other government allowed in in like the past 2 decades.

>>63956896
Corporations are what made America so prosperous and wealthy you commie. There’s a reason why things have gotten worse ever since libs started regulating them.

>>63965072
cuckold award

>>63965080
he's right you stupid socialist fuck

no state-controlled program has ever out-teched a capitalist rival for the simple reason that it's basic human nature that 1) people work harder and more creatively when promised profit-sharing, 2) civil service pay is not competitive against the market and therefore doesn't incentivise govt workers to work harder for the govt than for private enterprise, and 3) it's impossible to enslave people and force them to produce good creative work, they would rather just switch off
and R&D inherently requires a lot of creativity

consequently, no state-controlled program can compare with Darwinist market competition in successfully selecting for maximum effectiveness and efficiency and ruthlessly defunding competitors
even China gave up and decided to liberalise its economy rather than continue the fruitless Communist attempt to outcompete Western profit-incentivised creativity, and that's the only way they managed to accomplish the little headway that they have done so far

profit is a more powerful motivator than anything the government can come up with
you Marxists can seethe and cope all they like, it's true

>>63965072
>>63965395
>everyone who doesn't allow corporations to tread on me is a commiemarxistsomething
Sure is summer here. let me guess, you're a 13yo lolbertarian?

>>63965395
>Darwinist market competition in successfully selecting for maximum effectiveness and efficiency and ruthlessly defunding competitors
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Please show an example of that ever happening in history. The literal golden (gilded) age of our economy was when big chunks of our economy were still managed by the State post WW2.
A true "free market" economy is an utopia that can only exists in economy books, just like other delusions like Communism.
Moderate to high state intervention has literally always been applied to every single economy in the World and without it you could never run a nation as you'd be put under by other countries that do so.

>>63965775
>everyone who doesn't allow governments to tread on me is a lolbertarian
right back at you

>>63965799
>Please show an example of that ever happening in history
Please show an example in the past fifty years of state-controlled R&D beating commercial
(you do realise that most government projects are outsourced, right?)
>Moderate to high state intervention has literally always been applied to every single economy in the World
what is "moderate"?
what is "high"? can you define it?
can you give examples today of major economies which would be considered low, moderate, and high state intervention?

and please, don't come to me with pissant little Nordic countries with populations barely amounting to 0.1% of the world total

>>63965395
State-led research has driven some of the biggest breakthroughs we now take for granted. The internet began as a Department of Defense project, GPS was perfected by the military, and foundational work on mRNA vaccines was funded by public health agencies long before biotech startups raced to market. These weren’t profit-driven gambles—they were long-term bets on knowledge that private investors often won’t touch because the payback is decades away.
Markets excel at scaling proven ideas, but they routinely underinvest in “blue-sky” research. Companies need wins each quarter; governments can afford to back projects with uncertain outcomes because societal benefit—not just shareholder returns—is the goal. That’s why foundational science so often lives in universities and national labs.
China’s model today isn’t pure capitalism. Key sectors like telecom and renewable energy are dominated by state-owned or state-backed enterprises that combine central planning with commercial incentives. Huawei and State Grid compete globally on innovation, thanks to heavy public investment paired with market discipline.
Unchecked “Darwinist” markets often produce monopolies, planned obsolescence, and marketing hype that drowns out real innovation. When competition evaporates, there’s little incentive to improve.
In practice, the smartest economies blend approaches: governments fund risky, early-stage science and build infrastructure, then private firms bring products to life. Innovation is less a zero-sum game and more a relay race where both public and private runners need to carry the baton.

>>63965823
Arguing against libertarians is always fun, you never know if behind the screen there is a edgy teenager who just watched a Ben Shapiro compilation or a child predator.

>>63965823
>the internet
>GPS
the government provided the vision, sure, but who developed and built these projects?
were they totally built in-house?
>China’s model today isn’t pure capitalism
I covered this in my post
>Unchecked
Well done, you absolutely destroyed that strawman successfully
if I were so inclined to strawmanning also, I could just as easily say that
>Unchecked state-controlled markets often produce monopolies, inefficiency and lack of innovation, misallocation of resources, and lack of profit incentive that drowns out real innovation. When competition evaporates, there’s little incentive to improve

every discussion on the Internet about economic systems must first go through the stage where capitalism is instantly characterised and dismissed as total anarcho-capitalism AND ONLY total anarcho-capitalism
now that we have got that out of the way, shall we proceed to a discussion with at least a useful smidgen of nuance?

I give you the same challenge as above: show an example of a major country with the right amount of capitalism and state checks and balances to create a sustainable leading tech advantage, if you think that's not the USA
remember: all things are relative

>>63965851
>Arguing against welfare statists is always fun, you never know if behind the screen there is a edgy teenager who just heard about Marxism or a lifelong dole bludger.

>>63965880
>the government provided the vision, sure, but who developed and built these projects?
>were they totally built in-house?
If not for the government, private companies wouldn't have had the incentives to build those same technologies.
>argue in favor of unchecked capitalism and how things are going worse because of regulations
>doesn't understand I never argued against capitalism
>backtracks immediately when proven wrong
lol

>>63965897
>argue in favor of unchecked capitalism
go ahead and quote where I did
(you can't)
>If not for the government, private companies wouldn't have had the incentives to build those same technologies
If not for private enterprise, the government wouldn't have the capability to build those same technologies

BOTH must exist
your Marxist insistence on casting everything in 1/0 binary form has blinded you to this
and you have no real counterargument, which is why you continue to sidestep the question I posed

>>63965919
>go ahead and quote where I did
>Corporations are what made America so prosperous and wealthy you commie. There’s a reason why things have gotten worse ever since libs started regulating them.
>If not for private enterprise, the government wouldn't have the capability to build those same technologies
Yeah, the famous private company NASA.
>BOTH must exist
Which is what I argued since the beginning. You on the other hand didn't.
Feel free to quote to me where in your first 2 posts ( >>63965080 >>63965395 ) you said anything remotely similar.

>>63965936
the first post is not mine
>Yeah, the famous private company NASA
which famously builds all its satellites and rockets using only in-house technology?
>Which is what I argued since the beginning
You were arguing from the beginning that European countries are somehow "better" despite being hilariously consistently out-teched by America ever since WW2

like I said: if you think America has got the balance wrong and is too far on the side of corporatism, show me a major economy that has a better balance, go on
otherwise you're just wishing for an unattainable standard

>>63965977
I meant ( >>63965395 and >>63965072 )
>which famously builds all its satellites and rockets using only in-house technology?
This is just further moving of the goalpost. Is NASA a private company?
>You were arguing from the beginning
My first post is the cuckold award one.

>>63965989
>My first post is the cuckold award one
so you are indeed arguing in comparison to a fantasy ideal then?
>This is just further moving of the goalpost
nope; as I said above, "most government projects are outsourced". I had already made my position clear that I was contrasting that against the kind of total in-house development that was practised in the USSR, and is dying a slow steady death in Europe
>Is NASA a private company?
are Chrysler and North American Aviation government entities?

>>63965072
america was made propserous thanks to its immense natural resources you dingbat, if anything, corporations made you WAY poorer by funneling state revenue to them and destroying hundreds of thousands of jobs through outsourcing and eradicating competition with trusts and lobbies.

>>63966056
>so you are indeed arguing in comparison to a fantasy ideal then?
no, I'm arguing against a retard who says what is written to the post I was replying to.
>nope; as I said above, "most government projects are outsourced"
Which is a retarded sentence when you forget that without the capital investment from the state those outsourced private companies would've never touched the task/product/technology.
>replying to a question with a question
I accept your defeat.

>>63961543
THINK they will, retard.

>>63965799
Stupid nigger the gilded age was post WWI when we sat out 90% of it and charged gold for manufactured goods. Then coasted the 20s and wasted it. That was the whole age asshole.

>>63965823
Every one of those was private sector who then bid a government job. So, working on it anyway petunia. The whole post is so fucked up, you screamin SOURCE! would have me pointing at google. You need loads of them.
I can tell you never worked for government.

>>63956794
Christ this is such stupid agitprop. I could link you information about innovation and entrepreneurship happening in Europe, but would you even read it if you got it?

>>63956812
Holy cope, just look at Paris/Berlin/London... need I go on?

>>63966393
It's really not any worse than any of the things europeans say about Americans on a daily basis.

>>63966434
Holy cope, look at *insert ANY american city*. Meanwhile in Europe only those few ones are shit.

>>63966109
Based

>>63966393
firstly, see >>63966678
can dish it out but can't take it?

secondly, Europe IS gradually but steadily losing its technological edge. let's look at the IT industry:
Europeans can't come up with their own commercially-successful desktop computer
can't come up with their own commercially-successful operating system
or graphics chips
lost the cellphone wars
lost the email and search engine wars
losing the blockchain war
refuses to engage in the AI war at all
>bbbbbut the Dutch monopolise this chip-making machine
that's like saying European pop stars lead the world because they're all on Spotify
Europeans build a couple of niche B2B items like Linux and SAP which others use, that's it
but they're unable to make the massive jump from there to building a competitive consumer product that people will grab off the retail shelves over American or Asian, because it's demonstrably better

>>63966109
>without the capital investment from the state those outsourced private companies would've never touched the task/product/technology
consumer expenditure would eventually have pushed them along that path. slower, but they'd have got there eventually.
it's a matter of simple maths, which is clearly far above your head
consumers will eventually amass enough capital and potential demand to achieve "leaps forward" in technology (e.g. cotton gin, electricity, powered flight) with or without governments; but government R&D is a mere wish-list without consumers and the expertise which is created from their demand

but anyway, now that we have reached that stage of a 4ch discussion where the loser tips over the ratio of sensible argument to shouting down the opponent, I leave you to your fantasies

waste of money
carriers aren't survivable enough against modern munitions, even with several escorts

and when you lose one, too much resources go with it

>>63965072
things were so much better when we allowed corps to add lead to gasoline so it gets into our breathing air, dump lead into our drinking water and dump toxic fluorocarbon forever-chemicals into our drinking water
fucking shitlibs ruined all of that too, is there no level that the commie eu-inspired traitors will stoop to

>>63968273
What are these modern weapons that can successfully penetrate a carrier's screen and sink it?

>>63968276
indeed, if only we had allowed governments to do worse, then it would be alright

>>63968284
basically anything in the right numbers. ukraine gave us pretty good figures of what's needed to have a chance of downing a single kinzhal or zircon. which is an entire patriot battery. a single yasen with 12+ zircon will do it (up to 32 per boat).

it might not sink, but it'll be functionally dead.

>>63968289
>ukraine gave us pretty good figures of what's needed to have a chance of downing a single kinzhal or zircon. which is an entire patriot battery
as claimed by some retarded European media hack who literally Wiki'd the number of launchers and missiles in a US Army Patriot battery and extrapolated from that, at a time when Ukraine had only just received two (2) launchers

>>63968289
>kinzhal or zircon
HAHAHAHAAHAAHAAJAJAJJAJAJAAJAJAJJAXXXXACACACAXAXAXAXACAXAXAXAXAXAXAAXXAXAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK el russiANO senores y senoritas AAAAAJJJJ EL RETARDO SENORES HAHAHAHAHAHAAJAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

>>63968287
imagine if we had no govt at all, we could all live in freedom under a landowning corporation and pay a monthly subscription for the right to breathe the air that the corporation owns

>>63968299
imagine if we had no corporations at all, we could all live in freedom under a landowning caesar and let him do all the thinking for us

>>63968294
using 2 launchers, that's still 8 missiles per zircon. a couple of ssns would overwhelm the escorts in this situation. and you don't need these modern munitions to do it: subsonic sea-skimmers in high enough numbers time on target will get through. 32 coming in from one vector should do it, though the issue here is that they'll probably pick up the escorts with their active radar.

>>63968295
patriot batteries have been hit that are actively trying to shoot down incoming iskander missiles. a patriot battery is somewhat similar to a single burke when it comes to the number of terminal interceptors.

>>63968303
you now realize that giving either the government or the corporations maximal power and freedom to do as they wish is bad for the individual citizen

>>63968328
>He's still shilling for cringzhal and shitcon, now also iskender kebab
EL RETARDO DE LAS RUSSNIGERIAS SENORES JJAJAJAJAAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJJAJAJAJAXAXAXAXAXAXAXAXCA el indiANO KWAB HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA el chinkiANO senores y senoritas

You finna shill for silkworm next you fuckign faggot HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>63968330
congrats, you blew up that strawman convincingly!

now give us an example of a country with a good balance between government and private enterprise

>>63968336
you'll just call any example a socialist shithole, so it's a worthless excercise

>>63968343
yes, because it's almost as if you're only capable of looking at surface appearances and can do nothing but chimp out when shown the underlying problems you didn't notice

>>63968356
what an unintentionally ironic post

>>63968328
>using 2 launchers, that's still 8 missiles per zircon. a couple of ssns would overwhelm the escorts in this situation
the anti-hypersonic capabilities of NATO ABM systems have been validated in multiple firing exercises. it doesn't take 8 interceptors to kill a Zircon-type hypersonic missile.

>subsonic sea-skimmers in high enough numbers time on target will get through. 32 coming in from one vector should do it
no it won't
a single Burke-class carries enough SAMs to kill them all; carriers usually are escorted by at least two
air defence systems are also good enough to prioritise attacks so they don't just blindly attack the nearest incoming target

and you haven't even factored in EW systems which in (classified) testing have been proven to be even more effective than interceptors at killing enemy antiship missiles, which is why the Navy invests so much in them, and why they keep very silent on the matter

>>63968359
>can do nothing but chimp out

>>63968361
a glaring lack of self-awareness is a sign of autism, my bro

>>63968367
>t. glaring unwillingness to discuss with facts and reason, resorting solely to ad hominem

>>63968370
I have a glaring unwillingness to engage with a bad-faith actor, not facts and reason

>>63968372
>resorting solely to ad hominem

>>63968360
ukraine gave us real world hit rates for terminal interceptors in real world conditions. live-fire exercises and eggheads give you those 95% pk figures of 2 interceptors per target and similar, which are true within the confines of what they're intercepting in those situations and in controlled environments. but they don't equal what can happen in the real world by people trying to defeat you on the battlefield.

as for the subsonic sea-skimmers, in a real world setting, uss mason managed to down 4 of 5 of them via missiles and decoys: they missed the 5th which didn't actually lock on to them and passed the ship (it locked on to a 2nd ddg that spoofed it). uss gravely almost died because it didn't detect a sea-skimmer that was on its way and needed to resort to using a ciws to shoot it down; if it was 2 of them, she would have been hit. figure a salvo of 8 harpoon-tier missiles is enough to overwhelm a single ddg or cg, and you have something close to reality; they don't have enough time to down them all before they hit or pass by.

buying more destroyers and attack submarines is a far better use of resources than a carrier nowadays, because said destroyers and submarines can prosecute similar missions for land-attack with missiles, and you end up with a lot more assets to distribute over a wider area than a single carrier battle group. you can buy around ~7 ddgs per carrier. i'd much rather the ddgs.

>>63968395
>ukraine gave us real world hit rates
using systems a fraction of the number and strength which a carrier escort group would be operating with

> they missed the 5th which didn't actually lock on to them
probably because the 5th was spoofed, which is still a mission-kill as far as Mason is concerned
that's 5 for 5 actually

>Gravely
we don't know what the operational conditions of that incident was
could be it had turned off its SAM defence system, which is also what an Israeli warship did in an earlier incident iirc

>destroyers and submarines can prosecute similar missions for land-attack with missiles, and you end up with a lot more assets to distribute over a wider area than a single carrier battle group. you can buy around ~7 ddgs per carrier
let's say that you fill half of those DDGs' silos with Tomahawk missiles, the other half with Standards
that's 350 cruise missiles
a carrier can launch 24 F-35s each delivering 48 cruise missiles. assume the rest of the air wing is providing CAP, assume the carrier sticks to the bog-standard sortie rate of one airstrike a night (actual capability more)

in just 8 nights that carrier delivers more firepower than those DDGs
after a week, your DDGs must go home and rearm with cruise missiles; the carrier keeps pounding and pounding and pounding

>>63968431
small edit
>*a carrier can launch 24 F-35s per carrier, each of those F-35s delivering 2 cruise missiles, for a total of 48 cruise missiles per airstrike per carrier

>>63968267
>consumer expenditure would eventually have pushed them along that path
Except there is not a single example in history.

>>63968267
>where the loser tips over the ratio of sensible argument to shouting down the opponent
Remember that on 4chan people are anonymous. I'm literally just coming back from work. If someone insults you just ignore them

You bunch of retards don't understand that the no1 factor in the success of a country is being white winning the geography/resources lottery

>>63968567
Europe is quite poor in natural resources

>>63968553
>t. Unable to read a post, yet pontificating on macroeconomics

>>63968567
How's Nauru working out for ya?

Jokes aside, sure. An extraction economy is the first step to be anywhere. But we're talking about moving beyond that.

>>63934275 (OP)
>honhonhon Italy if you want to build ze carrier with us you vill have to buy 500 rafales and sell Leonardo to us
>mama mia fucka that, I'm gonna teama up with turkey or the UK or someone else
This is how it's gonna go, 100%. Everyone knows frogs never play fair in these deals, this is 100% to blame on Italy for even considering it.

>>63968585
But positioned strategically geographically. And it had the perfect climate to develop high IQ

>>63968594
>it would've happened sometime down the road trust me guys
Yeah no.

>>63968895
Already happened, but you didn't read it because you can't.
Pick up a finance textbook then you will be minimally qualified to comment further.

>>63968980
>Already happened
it didn't

>>63968601
>what is horizon
>what is FREMM
>what is ATR
>what is SAMP/T NG
>what is SICRAL 2

>>63966678
I don't approve of that either, never have. Most of them are usually russians and a few central euros like hungarians and slovaks. Helmettard, too, of course.

>>63968267
Europe faces a lot of challenges, the solution is actually not less EU, but even more EU.

Here's a few examples of startups and innovation:

https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1917172981824192697
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1922299147652346358
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1924088180808298821
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1914341042041831585
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1925176597302460768
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1924790658684092618
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1922606425156763820

Major challenges European startups face: fragmentation and paperwork and GDPR and AI act overregulation which needs to be corrected.

https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1918621145278099596
https://x.com/itsolelehmann/status/1921938702533840958

>>63969416
>Most of them are usually russians
No, no they're not. Any American who has interacted with europeans for more than 5 minutes can attest to the fact that eueopeans near uniformly feel the need to casually attack the US and its people.

>>63969435
being a nation of arrogant jingoists doesn't help, either. but i believe you're exaggerating in order to play the victim, which is unbefit someone apparently as rich and more successful than us europoor philistines, right?

>>63969498
Not helping your case here.

>>63969435
>uniformly feel the need to casually attack the US and its people.
almost a bigger victim complex than jews

>>63969416
>Major challenges European startups face: fragmentation and paperwork and GDPR and AI act overregulation
>the solution is actually not less EU, but even more EU
EU brings nothing but overregulation

>>63937391
>Lead-cooled fast reactor
just stick with PWR

>>63934275 (OP)
Unless this actually means "Italy pays France to build carriers for them" then no. France will do as France does and fuck it up.

>>63935171
this is hilarious. Also, his mother made quite the banger back in the days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3F8kLoazGg&ab_channel=TontonBismarck

>>63970379
I bet you this is some underhanded attempt to bargain a pity position in the Tempest program, given how they fucked FCAS up already.

>>63970960
since Italy is extraneous to Tempest requirements, it has very little bargaining posture

>>63970974
Italy holds equal shares in the tempest program with UK and JP, frogs most likely want to leverage the carrier collab and attempt using them as a trojan to sneak a convenient position in the program

>>63935171
Mussolini was left wing though

>>63970991
Italy joined later, and UK and the Japs can run the program themselves as originally intended if they wish, so there's not that much which Italy can demand

>>63935171
>>63970408
>Mussolini's Grandniece named Gaius Iulius Caesar Mussolini
>is a member of the current leading party in Italy

>>63971003
Nah, it's JP that joined last and Italy is a core member of the program, they can't go on without them
Granted I wish it was that easy to just cut them off, I hope Italy is merely using this CVN collab as a testbed and is smart enough to see through frog trickery

nobody respects italians we're the butt of every joke

>>63969435
>eueopeans near uniformly feel the need to casually attack the US and its people
As an europoor, we don't give all that much shit about you guys, you got a feeling of self-importance that makes you assume reddit and 4chan are real life. Can't even remember last time any of my friends and relatives discussed the US in any way, except for "did you hear about the tariffs that the Americans' retard is trying to impose" and "that idiot is courting with Putin and backstabbing the US' allies"
I don't know who these mythic Europeans are that even think about the US on a regular basis, let alone spend time from their days to bash it. We don't even conflate your president with the population.

>>63934302
Italian navy pasta is apparently nothing special, but apparently they have really good ice cream.
>>63935171
Nice, couldn't have signed with a better team. SS Lazio is certainly the football club with most based fans.

>>63971365
>really good ice cream
Mmmmm real gelato.

>>63934275 (OP)
>actually provides a source to his claim
Ah, that's a relief I expected some lazily cropped Twatter screenshot followed by a bunch of retarded schizo posting takes.

>>63942316
>why does the US need an Army then?
'Technically' we don't, we just need a giant fuck you navy to discourage a land invasion and in the incredibly unlikely event that such a thing does happen we could just rely on state militia's like the founding fathers intended.

>>63971247
>nobody respects italians we're the butt of every joke
Beretta and all the good value spaghetti Western clones having a positive reputation says otherwise.
Italy bros are the best Moors.

>>63971273
>"did you hear about the tariffs that the Americans' retard is trying to impose"
Just let us export the Harley motorcycles and shitty GMC's into EVROPIA Hans and then we can talk about dropping the tariffs... pls?
>and "that idiot is courting with Putin
That was all bread and curious to appease his voting base. Immediately after behind the curtains Amerikkka started sending more Bradley's and missiles to Ukraine, AND I FUCKING CALLED IT. I mean no shit Trumps handlers (The Council on Foreign Relations AKA the people actually in charge) don't want to lose N.A.T.O.'s buffer state and probably made some credible threats like an assignation attempt that wouldn't fail as a result of not sending a fucking monkey with a ducktaped Walmart scope or just simply reminded him of that he's on Epstein's list. Anyway it's understandable how Ameritards fell for that show but how come some Eurobros haven't caught on?

Anyway as an Amergolem I grow tired of these fake ass Left vs Right politics when nothing ever actually changes. Not all of use are that gullible, just 90% of us.

>>63969435
Russians aren't Europeans, stop getting trolled. We generally like americans but don't think about them.

Italy needs the carrier to sink the future doctor and engineer boats more effectively

>>63971437
how brown am i

>>63971444
whiter than you mutt.

>>63971453
46% according to your own chart. How are your wrists so thin?

>>63971498
I wish i was born irish or danish or something so everyone can say how cool my non-brown eyes look. Don't believe any faggot saying whites age like shit since they look better than us on average
>How are your wrists so thin
that picture is from 2019

>>63971490
Hit a nerve Ivan? She's clearly part asian as well. But you knew that.

>>63971513
>She's clearly part asian
and that's a good thing

>>63971510
M8 I shitpost about italians and whatever not being white to try to provoke purity spiral tantrums between stormfaggots, not for angsty 16 year olds like you to internalise that you aren't white and descend into self loathing over the colour of your eyes or whatever. Get your mental state in check, it's not healthy to hate yourself over some inane shit like this. Unless you're a Russian and then you should hate yourself even more.

>>63971542
i'm 25

>>63971273
Going to europe is how I have had these experiences. Pretty much every other American who travels has. It's not just an Internet thing. I realize you've been told your whole life that you're the best and can do no wrong, but Russians aren't the ones who give us self righteous rants about how our country works and how we should govern ourselves all the time.

>>63971003
why do you talk without knowing anything?

>>63971513
grow up

>>63971450
We're literally importing 500000 more per year thanks to Meloni and her right wing government

>>63971542
>i'm a mentally ill retard who pretends to be retarded
fixed that for you.

>>63961012
Holy wall of cope. If Americans spent half the time addressing the issues in the country that they do coping about it, you might actually have a decent place to live.

>>63934275 (OP)
>>63934275 (OP)
who the fuck do these shithole countries think they are? we need to put them back in their place

>>63956884
oooof that's harsh. I'm enjoying 10 weeks of paid leave a year. It's even too much at times, some years I'm not able to take them all because I'm conscientious with the projects I manage. But I convert them into more money, so it's not all bad. Some years I take the entire 10 weeks though, and it's fucking great.