Germany is preparing to order 1000 Leo 2s and 2500 GTK Boxers with the program planned to cost 25 billion dollars
this would put the average Per Unit cost of an Armored vehicle in this program at 7.1 Million dollars
considering a singular Leo 2a8 costs 30 Million dollars and a GTK Boxer 3 Million dollars this would be way above the 25 billion dollar mark if all added up especially with the Leo 2 order alone being around 30 Billion dollars and the GTK Boxer order around 7.5 billion dollars in total bringing it up to 37.5 billion dollars if using the publicly available price tag
How is germany planning to fit this all into 25 billion dollars?
is it all just mass production pushing the price tag that far down?

>>63940099 (OP)
>considering a singular Leo 2a8 costs 30 Million dollars
It doesnt tho

>>63940099 (OP)
HOLY FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

>>63940099 (OP)
Mass production tends to do that

>>63940099 (OP)
God, I wish there was a Rheinmetall plant or a supplier nearby. I’d like to work in the defense sector, but I don’t want to travel more than 100 km to work.

>>63940162
from what I have seen the leo 2a8 cost 29 million per unit in germanys first order
and then the czech also bought some for 27 million per unit
it isnt 30 million exactly but for the sake of nicer looking numbers I rounded it up though it would still put the deal way past the planned 25 billion dollars

>>63940099 (OP)
We are so fucking back.

>>63940099 (OP)
Ob’s stürmt oder schneit,
Ob die Sonne uns lacht,
Der Tag glühend heiß
Oder eiskalt die Nacht,
Bestaubt sind die Gesichter,
Doch froh ist unser Sinn,
Ja unser Sinn.
Es braust unser Panzer
Im Sturmwind dahin....

>>63940099 (OP)
Germany yuo are an nazi

>>63940099 (OP)
> Germany is preparing to order 1000 Leo 2s
yes, let's spend billions of dollars on obsolete tech
GREAT idea

... but not like it's going to happen anyways
currently germany has less than 300 tanks and thats already pushing their capabilities
where they fuck would they even get the required personell for this

>>63940099 (OP)
GET FUCKED POORLACKS

This is so fucking dumb, leo are outdated, expensive tanks vulnerable to drones.
And for what? Rot in a garage?

>>63940099 (OP)
1000 MBTs plus whatever they already have. Yeah I’ll believe it when I see it.

Most the of this “rearmament” will be simply spending billions on expensive vaporware, produced in single digit numbers.

Germany will never have a standing army of 500k troops with thousands of tanks.

>polacks and frogs already seething

>>63940099 (OP)
Tanks without shitloads of anti drone stuff are fucking useless. Did they not watch the Ukraine war? They should also buy like 2 million FPV drones themselves.

>>63940099 (OP)
We need more Flugabwehr

>>63940250
650 boxer skyranger are planned.

300+ GMARS would be nice.

>>63940301
Poland already ordered like 500 HIMARS.

>>63940099 (OP)
bundeswehr needs to bring their old symbols and traditions
current bundeswehr is pussified
just look at their logo its gay
they need old iron cross back

>>63940343
Oh no, a fatburger on a tibetan basket weaving forum thinks our logo is gay. Whatever shall we do?

I hope they have an equivalent massive number of drones and drone production planned.

>>63940364
bring back old uniforms if you want respect

>>63940396
We don't want respect, we want dead russians. Think the uniforms are fine for that.

>>63940395
Germany is the biggest collaborator and supporter of Ukrainian drone production which takes places both in Ukraine and Germany
I would say that Krauts are ahead of the game compared to the rest of nato thanks to that
Brits have also done the same and invested a shit ton

So where the hell are they going to get the guys to put in them? Recruitment is already falling short with the current extremely modest numbers.

That money would be better spent on maintaining what they already have and trying to drum up people than festooning yet another leo 2 rehash in even more shit.

>>63940414
We need drone production in safe europe, not (only) ukraine.

>>63940418
If a sufficient number of voluntary recruits (and reservist) cannot be found, they will restart the draft.

>>63940443
drones are being produced in safe europe
thats why I said
>Ukrainian drone production which takes places BOTH in Ukraine AND Germany

>>63940449
wouldn't that be a very unpopular move?

>>63940466
Our politicians don't give a fuck about us, so why should they care?

>>63940396
You're not going to believe this, anon...

>>63940704

>>63940099 (OP)
>1000 Leo 2s

>>63940099 (OP)
But they've spent decades gradually whittling the military down. Every German libtard party -- and they all are except for AfD -- takes this apparent Putin-like view of the post Cold War German army: something politically dangerous that needs to be castrated. They just made it illegal for anybody in the police or military to vote for AfD, for fucks sake.

So how does all of this square with their supposed rearmament plans? I remain unconvinced this isn't going to morph into the kraut equivalent of USAid.

>>63940099 (OP)
>Economies of scale
Good. Even better would be to sustain those contracts over years once the bulk of production is done so the capacity isn't lost.
>t. Burger who wishes Europeans to be on equal footing in quantity too

>>63940250
which phenotype is this ?
>>63940713
bunde-verfügungstruppe ?

>>63940099 (OP)
Economy of scale. When mass produced properly, the price of the individual item goes down.

>>63940099 (OP)
>is it all just mass production pushing the price tag that far down?
Yes

>>63941616
>They just made it illegal for anybody in the police or military to vote for AfD
You think you can just go on the internet and state outright lies?
Go on start your next post with
>Um uhhh well actually what I meant was

>tanks
literally useless.

the same number of SPGs + the IFVs is far, far better

>>63941931
tanks literally ended ww1.
maneuvering tank brigades would easily end that weird ww1 re-enactment in ukraine.

>>63941957
>tanks literally ended ww1
Brainlet take desu

Finally.

>>63940221
>.

>>63940099 (OP)
RIP Putin

>>63941832
>which phenotype is this ?

looks like the Oblivion Remake

I have warned you that would happen if you call Germany weak too many times!

>>63941616
>Every German libtard party -- and they all are except for AfD -- takes this apparent Putin-like view
Meanwhile afd is directly on Putin's payroll

>Germany and the EU are raising the eyebrow and taking the gloves off
France and the bongs will probably announce other large deals soon too, if I have any idea of how they do these things in the old world
Or some large collaboration effort could be announced by the smaller countries. Italy and France are already investigating building two next-gen nuclear carriers.

>>63942118
France needs to gear up for a conventional war in Europe instead of the light wheeled stuff for their light colonial power antics in Africa
UK was so money starved in the last three decades that they need all the extra money to actually archive the paper strength like actually being able to deploy their second carrier, actually order the rest of the 130 something F-35 und not reducing their Typhoon fleet even etc..

but but drones...

The Germans already solved that problem

>>63940099 (OP)
>1000 Leo 2s and 2500 GTK Boxers
Lancet food.
They need to order 10000 Bullfrogs for all their existing vehicles first. But boomers from boomer MIC gonna boom.

Next steep should be building 20000 per yeah of Shaheeds with 2000 and 4000 km range.

>>63940258
Their ammo costs 2000 EUR/1rd. Okish vs Shaheeds pointless on modern FPV battfield.

>>63942146
>but drones
>own soldiers are dying left and right
>gaining a few meters once in a while

Drones didn't solve the problem of being stuck in a static frontline.

>>63941957
tanks aren't mobile nor protective enough for the modern environment. IFVs suffer similar issues, but you need to get your men places with protection, so they still work.

SPGs are the most important ground asset, as artillery is still king, and it needs to move fast.

>>63941957
Indirect Artillery fire ended infantry maneveuer

>Tanks literally ended ww1.
Yes. But then inderect FPV firepower ended tanks and now we back to WWI. Until your tanks can tank drones attacks your tw ks would be slaughtered like infantry during WWI.
>no cope cages is exactly that, cope

>>63942154
Drones CREATE problem of static frontlines. It's exactly like during WWI when infantry crawled out of holes only to slaughtered by shrapnel rounds without chance to hit back. Tank was made to counter that meta, tank doesn't give a fuck about shrapnel rounds.

And your own Shaheed drones is the best counter to General Armageddon tactics of terror bombing your cities with missiles. Passively trying to intercept them is loosing strategy.

>>63942157
>IFVs suffer similar issues, but you need to get your men places with protection, so they still work.
IFV is dead in current meta. Stuffing boxes of ammo into personel carrier that WOULD be hit and WOULD be penetrated is stupid idea.

>>63941616
>amerilard talking about euro politics
try to understand what's going on in your country first before rattling off a bunch of nonsense

>>63940099 (OP)
When they're buying 1000 cost comes down yes

>>63940199
how fucking retarded are people that they don't understand a product becomes way cheaper when you order 1000 of them instead of 20

>>63940216
>obsolete tech
so you're a dronenigger
well you can shut the fuck up because i just droned your post faggot, your post is now obsolete and should be replaced by a drone.
if you send a coping reply my way i will also FPV dronestrike that post and that post will be obsolete and you'll need to replace it with another drone.

>>63942174
no, both airforces being shit created the static frontlines, and fostered the amount of drone usage we see now.
this drone meta doesn't exist outside of static warfare.

this thread is obsolete, it needs to be replaced with an fpv drone.
i just killed my neighbour with a drone, he needs to be replaced with a drone too.

>>63941616
>illegal for anybody in the police or military to vote for AfD
Anon, nobody can see for what you vote. We aren't Russia here.
Also, the AFD is Russia's 5th column.

>>63942335
Drones are air force.

Try to set up a drone flight post when the enemy is gaining ground measured in km/h instead of meters/month as its armored brigades punch through with air support and see how it goes.

I hope the Luftwaffel gets some love too. We need 100 additional Typhoons.

>>63942481
Imagine Ukraine had current milion drones and UAV corps in 2022
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv
War would be unironically over in two weeks...

>>63940399
>We don't want respect, we want dead russians.
holy dubs of truth
current russians are the scum of the earth and hold this planet back from advancement

>>63940099 (OP)
> Germany is preparing to order 1000 Leo 2s
Imagine getting into that deathtrap. It's a piece of shit.
No military should be wasting money on busted concepts. They need to wildly improve their tanks, or invest in new concepts like landships or ultralight (mini) tanks.

>>63942157
Truth
>>63941957
Dude, tanks today are the most vulnerable weapons on the battlefield. EVERYTHING kills them. There are drone swarms and loitering munitions just chomping at the bit to take out tanks like the Leopard 2. You almost have to feel sorry for them.

>>63940099 (OP)
>2500 GTK Boxers
Which configurations?

>>63940099 (OP)
A decent ground force is important, but you will also need to upgrade the airforce. Or it will end up in a mess like the Ukraine war.

>>63940099 (OP)
€25 billion German tank order

>>63940216
I am Otto von Hitlerwagen from Naziberg oblast. Panzer is of obsolete. Let us tell tsar Merz that of waste of reichsmark to spend on war against Russian bear. Cannot be of cooking schnitzel sausage and am of freezing in winter without Russian gas.

>>63942358
they aren't, you're retarded.

>>63940099 (OP)
>German rearmament
Cargo cult of Poland

>>63940099 (OP)
With what money and what energy?

>>63941616
Bullshit.
The idea was that since Russia is not an enemy anymore, they can use the Bundeswehr for joint NATO operations as some kind of "specialized expeditionary force" that helps out whenever the burgers want to wage a war in some sandniggerland again.
And the blue faggots are definitely not for rearmament, because that would mean not spreading their cheeks for vatnig cock.
Now kill yourself, retard.

>>63942805
>>63941616
And to add, both larger conflicts the German army participated in since the war were during the first Red/Green coalition, and now the Greens are again the main war supporters.

>>63940233
you are wrong, this time we are 100% on board and we will be on the correct side of history

>>63942770
3.5% GDP
Imported american gas

>>63941616
Retard, people should be banned for blatant trolling and lying

>>63940099 (OP)
Bulk orders get discounts, I'd say it would be:
>Leopard 2A8 could drop to €15–20 million per unit
>GTK Boxer could fall to €2.5–3 million per unit

>>63942805
>And the blue faggots are definitely not for rearmament,
lies.
half of afd voted for the special fund for the army.
https://www.bundestag.de/parlament/plenum/abstimmung/abstimmung?id=784

>>63942686
da, I john from ohio oblast am in full agreement

I want to weld tanks to bad but the only shit Sweden makes are the BAE CV90s made in the ass end of nowhere in northern Sweden.

>>63942851
They probably forgot to check their yandex.mail.

>>63940099 (OP)
After much seething and much gnashing of the teeth, Trump has finally forced the Germans to live with divinity.
>The dignity of being able to defend yourself

>>63942851
>half of afd voted for the special fund for the army.
Maybe you should check the link you posted, because "half of afd" obviously did NOT.
You could say "almost half of those who voted yay/nay" said yes, and then the "NO" votes would still be more.
You dumb faggot, go suck some more vatnig dick.

>>63942959
>All my political opponents are vatniks.

>>63942959
so you concede that afd isn't "definitely not for rearmament"

>>63942326
The level of understanding goes down proportionally to the ease of access to internal toilets and clean water.

>>63942861
Pete Burgersmith from Texas Oblast here, can confirm. Also we need a warm water port.

>>63940099 (OP)
>to order 1000 Leo 2s and 2500 GTK Boxers
VGH...
My kneels... they are bending on their own...
I must...
I'm KNEELING....

>>63940221
We first need to build the Garage in Königsberg, mein Kamerad.

Ordering modern tanks is incredibly cringe.
>APS not optimized against drones, gets used up swatting 500 dollar drones then the tank is hit with another, also likely to overlap with EW
>Obsolete front armor scheme when there are like maybe a handful of sightings of tank on tank combat
>Can't do shit against mines but now drones lay them everywhere
>Extremely visible when drone niggers are observing most of the front
They should make it 5k boxers + get more long range fire capabilities.

>>63942150
The gun was more expensive than the bow, the lead and gunpowder more than the arrow. Didn't help the Indians when the cowboys could afford it.

Fucking retard.

>>63943119
this isn't a soviet army. they won't be using ww1 tactics but maneuver. your shitty drones can't maneuver.

>>63940099 (OP)
reminder to buy EU def stonks if you want free money

>>63940099 (OP)
>manned Tanks
spending future leveraged money on 60 ton human anchovy cans made of depleted uranium in the current year + 10 with drones making M1 abrams obsolete instead of making ultralight 120mm cannon wheeled drones that dont require a parade of 20 Diesel tankers just fuel 5 tanks, is pants on head retarded

I really hope its includes more RCH 155.

>>63940099 (OP)
>1000 Leo 2s and 2500 GTK Boxers
Without shells they are useless
Regardless, the German "prepares" but he will never deliver as he is broke af

I think I missed something

>>63940099 (OP)
>considering a singular Leo 2a8 costs 30 Million dollars
They do when the total orders are 100 tanks two dozen turret upgrades.
At 1000 units and decades of support contracts for a massive fleet I wouldn't be surprised if the purchasing price went well below 20mil.

>>63942528
>Which configurations?
Yes.

>>63943200
that's literally a boxer

>>63943205
I know. But the question is, if these are actually part of the 2500 Boxer order.

>>63943224
650 skyrangers are planned.

>>63943200
I don't trust the Oerlikon Bergjuden.

>>63940099 (OP)
>lost both world wars
>third time's the charm
Hopefully they ally rusnigeria since whichever side they're on end up losing

>>63940099 (OP)
>Germany is about to buy a bunch of obsolete shit this war proves is this centuries battleship to fight an imaginary enemy, in an imaginary war 15 years from now

literally why?
what the absolute fuck is wrong with europeans brains
preparing for todays war....20 years from now

spectacular plan

>>63940099 (OP)
that's something like 3 divisions worth of armour
the question is, is Germany really preparing to stand up 3 new divisions, or is this just replacing existing hardware?

>>63943587
>the question is, is Germany really preparing to stand up 3 new divisions,

>>63943157
>drones can't maneuver.
this is bait

>>63943648
>2015

>>63943726
>Don't worry Ivan, I hear the germans use broomsticks for guns so the road to berlin will be easy
Come and try it ziggers.

He did it boys, czar Putin did it, he has awakened the Rheinmetall Bass Machine to its full power :v

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHkBukBdh48

Also chinks have informed euros they can't allow Puccia to win, if you are MAGA go tell your boss you are now in a Cold War against a defacto alliance between Russia and China, no matter what the monke at the Kremlin says or pretend to be his buttbuddy:

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/04/europe/china-ukraine-eu-war-intl

>>63940099 (OP)
This is good, but you need to raise the ethnic german tfr up to 3 and halt and get rid of all immigrants and refugees and deport

>>63943145
Lead and gunpowder still is many many times cheaper than Apache warrior.

>>63940399
>we want dead russians
Based

>>63941832
Infanterie-Regiment Großdeutschla--- er, ich meine 'das Wachbataillon' **winkgemachen**

>>63940207
Mit donnerdem Motor, so schnell wie der Blitz.
Dem Feinde entgegen, im Panzergeschütz.
Voraus die Kameraden, im Kampfe steh'n wir allein, ja allein,
so stoßen wir tief in die feindlichen Reih'n.

>>63943692
Look up the meaning of maneuver in this context.

>>63943189
Thank you for the insight pidorashka

>>63943758
someone waving a broomstick around will probably trigger some ptsd among the russian ranks

The tank today is what the battleship was during WWII. Hitler himself observed:

> The navy, on the contrary, has not changed, so to speak, since the first World War. There is something tragic in the fact that the battleship, that monument of human ingenuity, has lost its entire raison d'être because of the development of aviation. It reminds one of that marvel of technique and art which the armament of a knight and his horse—the cuirass and the caparison—used to be at the end of the Middle Ages.
> What's more, the construction of a battleship represents the value of a thousand bombers—and what a huge amount of time! When the silent torpedo has been invented, a hundred aircraft will mean the death of a cruiser. Now already, no big warship can any longer remain in one harbour.

And

> Formerly I planned to construct the most powerful squadron of battleships in the world, and intended to name the two mightiest of them the Ulrich von Hütten and the Goetz von Berlichingen. I am now very pleased that I abandoned the idea. For, if we had such a squadron, we should be under a moral obligation to use it. Of what practical assistance could such a squadron be to-day? It would be condemned to playing the part of "the last of the knights in armour".
> Evolution these days has been so swift that it is now the infantry of the sea which assumes the prime importance. Apart from submarines, our greatest need is for little ships—powerful corvettes, destroyers and the like—these are the classes that carry on the fight.
> The Japanese to-day possess the most powerful fleet of battleships in the world, but it is very difficult to use them in action. For them, the greatest danger comes from the air. Remember the Bismarck.

Germans were wiser then.

>>63942861
Howdy rodeo there pardner. I am Jimbobsmith from Texarkansas oblast. Come and let us petition presidyent against waring with Poccйя who am of innocently defensing against genocide by Ukrops! In donbas yandex-translate-error-7784? нeпpaвильный фopмaт

>>63942861
>>63944363
You dudes are fucking unbearable

>>63944363
>>63944375
The left can't meme.

>>63940099 (OP)
In Germany nobody is celebrating. Another escalation that will bring WW3 to us germans.

>>63944439
I Fritz from Bayern Oblast and am also very concerned

>>63942861
>>63944363
>>63944465

>>63944439
German press didn't pick up this alleged leak from Bloomberg. can't celebrate what you don't know.

>>63944375
>>63944385

Hows Putins dick taste, Ranjeet?

>>63944634
No is promoting russia we are sick of your shit propaganda

>>63942805
What exactly is the use of a shit load of tanks on the next sandbox (or jungle, we might get a change in DLC) adventure. Not even a 'tanks are obsolete' fag - I mean I am to a degree but it's more the fuck is a tank going to be useful for for the next Afghanistan or Iraqi occupation. Yes it'll be useful for fire support - the same way a battleship would have been useful in 1991, or 2003, or 2025 with the Houthis. When we obsolete fags are bitching it's not that it's worthless, it's that the cost doesn't commiserate with the utility.

The one logic I can get is >>63942840
bulk discounts. So long as the Germans aren't neglecting the shit that'll actually matter (air power).

>>63944659
the idea is that europe doesn't bother with sandbox wars anymore and focuses it's military on curbstomping actual threats to the continent.

>>63940449
And of course, the browns would be exempt

>>63940484
>Our politicians don't give a fuck about us, so why should they care?
not caring about your constituents isnt the same thing as sending them to a war

entirely different implications

>>63940099 (OP)
Buying RHEINMETALL single best decision of my life

>>63944746
This would be quite bad for Rheinmetall though I think... Leos are from KNDS, and a large number of cheap Leos would make it much harder for Rheinmetall to break into the tank market with the Panther and others.

>>63944836
>2500 GTK Boxers

>>63942329
no, he do make sense
because germany is already spending money on the next generation tank they are developing with france, they could have spend all that fucking money on it and crank up the R&D to the max and start production but nooooo
>let's spend all that money on soon to be outdated technology
>oh wait we now have no money to afford new technology
>dang if only the american could give us free shit
german autism, not even once

>>63944836
KNDS got brought by rheinmetal because germany spoofed the budget of the new tank they are researching, KNDS could afford to keep up and were near bankrupcy so to keep them on track rheinmetal brought them along with their debts

>>63944634
>Everyone who is tired of my stale memes and shit sense of "humor" is a Russian operative.

>>63944849
Do you think its cheap to make new factories, do proper QD on new unproven platforms, and teaching troops how to work on and operate it? Also think about how many more they can make with the money. Quantity matters.

>>63944659
tanks are still the premier ground assault unit
dronefags are simply assuming shit off memes and mainstream news headlines; actual defence thinktanks who are plugged into the AFU report that the Ukes are asking for proper artillery and tanks
FPVs are not useful in a proper manoeuvrist peer war, only in the weird half-resourced trench warfare that's developed in Ukraine

>>63940216
These Leo 2 models will be very much more a drone carrier concept testbed with dual bushmaster main guns and a new minelayer variant. It's a Leo 2 in name only.

>>63942146
Make this in a 60 gun vertical wall with treads.

>>63940343
The actual logo painted on vehicles is black and white tho

>>63940221
Opposed to your tanks rotting outdoors in fields

>>63945246
It's time for your nap, grandpa. You were ranting and raving, talking like it's 2003 again. Take your meds and you'll feel better tomorrow.

>>63940399
Damn, Patton was right. We should have stood up Germany in 1946, reinstated the rehabilitated leaderships we had arrested in Argentina, and rolled through Moscow in a nuclear war.

Fucking Communists at State. Rot in hell.

>>63945246
>proper manoeuvrist peer war
And since the 90s the manouverist wars have been by
America against an inferior foe where armor mattered less than air
America against an inferior foe where armor did not matter at all
Various brown thirdie rebels in technicals

But I am sure fulda gap is right around the corner. I'm sure when Russia finally cracks (this one isn't meant in snide irony I do believe Russia will actually crack) tanks as opposed to "Anything that can move" will make the difference as the Russian army melts like Assad's did in the final days (Again this is not meant smugly I actually think they will melt away when Russia cracks).

The environment where maneuver warfare is going to happen is one in which unless that tank is amphibby and can speak mandarin it is irrelevant.

But I am sure we'll see maneuver warfare where great legions of panzers blaze across the Russian steppe towards Moscow and Russia decides to graciously exit instead of using their remaining tin-can nukes for what they are meant for (stopping that exact kind of invasion).

2 more weeks bro we'll get another big tank war bro just 2 more weeks trust the plan we'll have another kursk tank battle in 2 more weeks.

>>63940218
pay gibs plz
also pay gibs to Greece

>>63945673
>But I am sure fulda gap is right around the corner.
yes, it's been replaced by the suwałki gap now

>>63945673
russia is the threat.
russia is building lots of tanks.
germany is reacting.

>>63940099 (OP)
>preparing
>planned
>would
>if

>>63945697
>Russia
>Lots of tanks
I'm not sure if a lada with corrugated steel on it counts as a tank

>>63944634
>noooo you have to want more dead white men nooooo

Fuck you, brownoid

>German military procurement

Not going to happen. Years of delays, ummming and aaaahing, before 20 units get delivered and the program is cancelled. Don't be a fucking idiot OP

>>63940221
To send to Israel

>>63944051
You are welcome Jean-Jacques

>>63945995
Oh but they'll still find a way to spend 10billion on it though, somehow. Then suddenly 20 ministers and generals get consulting jobs at Rheinmetal, somehow.

>>63945681
You forgot israel.
>>63945839
Does it have gun?

>>63941957
And air power ended WWII.

>>63942805
>>63942959
>Hating on AFD
You are definitely a shitskin.

>>63946074
They are llitterally Putin's fifth column, all of them are traitors and they undermiine our society just like the old communist parties did.

>>63942146
>lel lanclette food
Pidorshka, you are quite funny. Some of times.

>>63940343
>Prussian blue outline for the Iron Cross
Looks fine to me?
Also many normies outside Germany often forget that the Bundeswehr was founded in West Germany, i.e the non-Prussian parts of Germany. No shit it lacks Le epic Alter Fritze marches, West Germans aren't Prussians that'd be like expecting an American army founded in Texas to practice New England traditions

>>63944659
>fire support
>a battleship would have been useful
>2025 with the Houthis.
this caught my eye
> be US
> sail ta bettlesip grups to Yemen
> kino footage of land bombardment
I'm on board. Sounds like a cum-fountain sort'a time.

>>63946278
the Bundeswehr still plays all the Prussian marches and considers the Prussian army its predecessor. Despite the geography, it was the East Germans that made the deeper ideological cut for obvious reasons.

https://youtu.be/iIMDXkzXKjQ

>>63945842
Your post doesn't even make sense you retarded asswipe
Ukrainians (and pidors though I stopped caring 12 warcrimes ago) are being killed because of a war the kremlin started and that the kremlin continues in a bid for imperial control, russiitself being a brown-yellow shithole
Kremlin shills like you ought to be lashed to a tank barrier and set ablaze

>>63946074
still not voting for kremlin 5th columnists
faggots like krah (afd) that have provably liased with literal kremlin and ccp spies deserve to sit in jail and not the bundestag

On top of that the Germans are supposedly thinking of buying about 1000 Patria 6x6's as well with some equipped with the 120mm NEMO mortar turret.

>>63944861
(You) will need to provide a credible source for that.


>>63946278
Don't google a map of Prussia 1869 or the history of the state of Prussia. Also, Preußens Gloria is a staple of german army band performances.

>>63944861
KNDS did not get bought by Rheinmetall in any shape of form
Wegmann bought Kraus-Maffei and created KMW and then they went on to merger with the French Nexter Defense systems
>.t KNDS Worker

>>63945673
>t. Fukuyama

>>63940343
>cross pattée
>used by templars, the teutonic order and for the iron cross
>pussified
You are one hell of a tastelet

>>63943648
russophobic weapon, russians fear the broom

>>63944363
>genocide by Ukrops
the correct term is Dills my friend

>>63945673
Air power can't advance on the ground, air power can't take land.
Both ukies and russians want tanks. Ukies use drones because they don't have enough tanks, because sending 31 Abrams and 80 Leopards during 3+ years is retarded and gay.

>>63944847
>GTK Boxers
vertical or horizontal?

>>63944849
If you need to rearm now, you start ordering and producing stuff that already exists, not some R&D project which isn't even done and who knows when will it be done.

Most of the cost in producing tanks is program cost, building and running factories.

The German government already has the specs, proprietary data sheets. Rhinemetal produces half the western worlds military steel. The Germans will get this done about as fast as Hitler did then immediately attack Poland rather than Russia, for the exact same reason.

There are 6 buffer states between Germany and Russia, as war now seems inevitable the Germans will invade every single buffer state and build a huge wall. and those buffer states can either accept this and just watch german troops roll in and build a defensive line through their countries, or they can attack the blundwher, which would last about as long as Poland attempt to repel the whermacht.

You'd like to think that Poland has learned, but historically poland is famous as the country which cannot learn

Germany produces a lot of the tank parts for the rest of europe already, they planned this for a very long time.

They have high tech manufacturing facilities spread around the country which can all produce tanks start-to-finish, and has secondary factories to supply parts to speed up assembly, and tertiary foundries to mass produce modular armor. At which point the primary factory is just a 24h assembly line.

And only privately produced arms have a "cost", national defense has a "footprint". This is something Americans would know literally nothing about because your army is directly funded by trans national pirates and the US government is a client rather than a operator.
German shit is run by the German government, they a have a transitional shareholder arrangement so if there is a war they will nationalize, And this is why both the Germans today and in the past can MEFO fund armour and pull 500 tanks out of their ass. US has to print money, debt-fund, which is self defeating in a war.
The Chinese will bullion fund, the Germans are far smarter, they learned from the National Syndicatists of the proto fascist era and will MEFO fund.

The German government will pay the wages of Rhinemetal workers for the next hundred year if rhinemetal ceedes client share to the German government. So it would be like a national trust, of which Germany is the only buyer, manager, but owns no shares. They borrow the factories for the duration of the war.

>>63946777
>Weapons of ass destruction

When the UK, france, US, India announce they are developing armor, really they are paying a private companies R&D, will run into all kind of program problems, rely on foreign parts and expertise, and often run out of liquid capitol because their borrowing causes a domestic recession that's politically unacceptable.

When the Germans say they are building armor, it's a warning. It means they are no longer selling armor. Factories in Germany will sell only to the German government, the government will fund them through labour balance arrangements, paying out private workers retirement funds to stop key workers retiring, locking in the German workforce, for the next 20 years nothing but tank.

The Germans are down to 350 leos or something, having given something like 100 to Ukraine, they figured it was the same Russian armour they were taking out but the Ukranians were loosing too many of them as their tankers were retard conscripts.

But that low number from Germany is deceptive, because Germany has in fact produced twice as many Leos as they actually have, being the principal exporter. So when Germany says they have 350, because they are the manufacturers, everyone is sort of wary of that number, because just like Hitler, Germany could be making a few hundred extra in closed facilities and just suddenly have 1000 Leos of their own plus the 500 in NATO arsenals and Ukraine.
And there's a distinct possibility that Germany could lend-lease their own tanks back off NATO allies to form extra battalions.
The Russians have sort of idly counted on their soviet tier armored mass, spent very little maintaining or upgrading it, where germany has been building production facilities and maintaining a third of the tanks, and making serious money supplying NATO.

So what could happen here is that Putin finds out the hard way that his tanks aren't up to spec, he lacks production facilities, and is now facing a German armored mass rather than the other way around.

>>63946794
>Both ukies and russians want tanks. Ukies use drones because they don't have enough tanks, because sending 31 Abrams and 80 Leopards during 3+ years is retarded and gay.
Russians have switched nearly entirely to infantry tactics and the results are no worse. Ukrainians also gave up on armored assaults with Abrams performing no better than T-64.
>B-but
They just aren't survivable. 5km from LOC and they are already peppered by drones and mission killed. You park them near action and they get hit at the night time with a drone.

A HE thrower is nice tactically but it's 2025. You can just strap an antitank mine to a drone to remove a building, and artillery is getting more and more accurate.

>>63942146
You have it backwards
Lancets are Boxer Skyranger food.

And further to this, the "warning" here is principally to the US who has relied heavily on rhinemetal to produce and sell them Rh-120 barrels for the Abrams.
Not only does germany export a huge number of tanks, it exports even more tank barrels for inefficient, corrupt national level tank projects. Korea, japan, the US sweden, hungary, the UK, all may soon be forced to forward-fund acquisition of the Leo insta-killing their national tank programs, joining the new Reich.

And this would probably be why germany is mass producing LEO instead of stepping up Lynx production. They may simply have a shit load of rh-120 barrels. and not see Russian armored developments as really warranting rh-130.

And this may also kill and plans to move production to Ukraine, which was a retarded plan. Germans was right all along. Given that Putin could conceivably capture Ukraine, the countries workforce is half dead, and nobody really wants to defend Ukraine but Poland, why the fuck would Germany defend the Ukranian border or loose tanks there? Snipe Russian armor, difinitely, stations and sell tanks? no way. Germany regrets every single tank they sent Ukraine as a pollitical waste

>>63946740
a balkenkreuz would be more fitting on a tank but germans are too pussy to put it on

>>63946875
>Russians have switched nearly entirely to infantry tactics
After losing 5-10K worth of tanks? No shit, they are trying to conserve what they have while they're "making" more.

>and the results are no worse
Ah yes, 2 years to get some dead villages with populations of 50-100 people.

>>63943189
kek
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/government-debt-projections-for-g7-countries-2024-2029f/

>>63944439
>us germans.

>>63946890
>After losing 5-10K worth of tanks? No shit, they are trying to conserve what they have while they're "making" more.
They are legitimately not even throwing what they produce at the problem now.
>Ah yes, 2 years to get some dead villages with populations of 50-100 people.
Current offensives are more successful than tank rushes with even Russian military planers shitting on their MOD every time they see another conga line of burning vehicles.

It's literally another battleship situation where retards will argue that we need 5 layers of defense to enable a basic bitch 125mm HE on the target instead of strapping that 125mm HE shell to a drone to drop on the enemy. IFVs are about as survivable as tanks nowadays given practically everything bypasses front armor nowadays.

>>63946906
>They are legitimately not even throwing what they produce at the problem now.
Yes, because the need to a reconstitute the force for further attacks later.

>Current offensives are more successful than tank rushes with even Russian military planers shitting on their MOD every time they see another conga line of burning vehicles.
Not really

>>63942150
What an idiotic statement.
1. It's more like 600/round.
2. You only see the successful drone videos. It is estimated that for every sucessful drone 9 drones fail.
3. The metrics of point 2. are in an environment of Soviet style militaries that are far away from Gepard performance, let alone Skyranger; and far away from sufficient SPAAG procurement numbers. Every single Ukrainian Gepard is highly revered. Some have said it is the most effective weapon of the war.

>>63946911
>Yes, because the need to a reconstitute the force for further attacks later.
These literally aren't happening. Russians manage to puncture Ukrainian defenses in some places and there is no armored rush anymore, just slow infantry craw.

>>63946370
The Patria is pretty cool. Goign to replace our aging Fuchs. No Fucks were given.

>>63946922
Their bread and butter attacks are small unit sized, either dismounted infantry moving on foot, some form of light vehicles, or a couple AFV.
Less often, they'll launch company-sized armored attacks, with tanks or dedicated armored engineering vehicle in the lead, followed by with a bunch of IFV/APC. They do those typically needing to clear a large number of strongpoints at once, or after they found a gap in he AFU line that they intend to bypass to grab and hold territory a bit deeper, with enough forces and supplies to hold it.
And very occasionally, they'll launch battalion-sized armored attacks, for the same reasons above, but greater in scale. The issue is risk. Company and especially battalion-sized attacks can accomplish a whole lot, but if they fail, they fail spectacularly, with extremely heavy losses in manpower (especially competent personnel), equipment, etc.
That will screw up future mission plans, it'll screw with reconstitution efforts for manpower and equipment, it'll force the hurt units to schedule an unplanned rotation off the lines, which triggers unplanned commitment of reserves to relieve them, potentially forcing the operational sector to limit its OPTEMPO as a whole until the relief in place happens, etc.
Plus, it's also a PR nightmare. It makes the tactical commander who carried it out look like incompetent idiot, it starts the blame game with their chain of command above them.

>>63946922
>>63947009
the Russians have fire superiority, so what they're doing is sending successive platoon-sized waves of conscript rabble in, which the Ukes can't kill fast enough, until they have a large number occupying a salient, who can rush the Ukes in one big charge in concert with more conventional tanks and IFVs coming up from the rear
meanwhile, Russian artillery and air support guns down Ukrainian artillery and FPV support assets
eventually the Ukrainian defenders are overrun or must withdraw, and they take heavy casualties during that time

the Russians don't lead with armour because mobiks are cheaper than tanks
it's pretty effective, though it's a relative crawl compared to the kind of armour-heavy manoeuvrist assault we've adopted since WW2
it might be said to be kind of a throwback to Vimy Ridge

>>63940343
HEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR

>>63940162
>>63940099 (OP)
>>63940199
>what's economy of scale

>>63946922
>These literally aren't happening
They are literally churning out dozens of refurbished T-62s (via that 800 tank contract from 2023 or something) and none of those are present on the front lines. Guess what they planning to do with them. Do I really need to draw a picture for you?

>>63947036
>platoon-sized waves of conscript
>conscript
Bullshit.
Russian constitution doesn't allow for conscripts to be deployed outside of Russia.
Assault units are deliberately filled with Meat, aka expendable manpower. Meat is generally composed of people society and military doesn't really care about; convict volunteers, military malcontents, riffraff, those who drew the short straw when they joined. Those Meat assault units get the worst missions, the ones where survivability is low, generally done so the better but fewer and harder to replace elite assault units can be spared.

>>63944385
>the left
>/k/

>>63947130
>Meat is generally composed of people society and military doesn't really care about; convict volunteers, military malcontents, riffraff, those who drew the short straw when they joined
>not ackshually conscripts
okay whatever

>>63947130
>Russian constitution doesn't allow for conscripts to be deployed outside of Russia.
a) laws are fictional concept in russia, they are to jail people, not to limit the goyvernment;
b) they officially view ukraine as part of russia (no, I'm not even joking);
c) they've used conscripts since day one of the invasion;

Germs used to have 5000 tanks during late cold war

>>63947164
And now they get to build new ones AND have Europe on their side. Turdworlders on notice.

>>63947169
Europe isn't on their side.
Germany is not ordering the arms it needs but the arms the German MIC can provide. there's no European MIC.

>>63946838
>You'd like to think that Poland has learned
They have had high military spending for a long time I think they are trying.

I think (and I hope) that by the time even half of all those tanks are actually produced, it has become obvious to policymakers that tanks are outdated.

>>63947608
Good

>>63940099 (OP)
Boomers cooked this country. Mass migration, high electricity prices, inflation in general, meat more expensive than ever, barely any child support unless you’re Achmed living on Bürgergeld but buying a bunch of shit that can’t be staffed anyways. Hate this boomercracy so much.

>>63947169
>Turdworlders on notice.
Yeah they're gonna be manning them

>>63947608
Basically every German missile and aircraft comes from the European MIC. Even KNDS making Leos is a multinational endeavour at this point.

>have to somehow train 50k troops for the battalions they pledget for NATO

Sounds kinda impossible.

>>63940099 (OP)
Somebody is lighting even more of a fire under Australian MIC.

Guys WEDM is a slow process. Please. I have a backlog.

>>63948508
how many non-German jobs will this tank order create?

>>63948599
you can train them in like three years. also not 50k nor battalions.

>>63948763
Hopefully zero

>>63948763
KNDS is building an assembly line in Greece, which afaik is also where a lot of hulls are still made.

>>63948772
>not 50k
Pretty sure that tank order is for the 10 brigades germany wants to raise as nato obligation. Which should roughly be an additional 50k soldiers in total.

>>63948834
nope:
"The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has asked Germany to contribute as many as seven combat brigades to the alliance within the next decade."
so like 34k soldiers and 1k civilian staff.

>>63948853
Huh, when I looked it up I saw some article mentioning 10 brigades. Maybe I read it wrong.

>>63942498
>current
Always have been.

>>63940099 (OP)
well, here's the current structure for comparison

>1st Panzer Division
with 1 tank battalion away with the Netherlands, it's probably meant to generate a mechanised brigade at high readiness comprising:
1 tank battalion
1 recon battalion
2 armoured infantry battalions
1 mechanised ("jaeger") infantry battalion
plus engineering, supply, signals, and an artillery battalion (a mix of Pzh2000s and M270s)

>10th Panzer
is the main punch clearly, able to quickly deploy:
1 tank battalion
1 recon battalion
2 armoured infantry battalions
1 "jaeger" battalion (from the Franco-German Brigade)
with full artillery, engineering, signals, and supply support, and enough bits and pieces left over to follow up with a second similar brigade, though it would probably take a little time to assemble, and borrow units from 1st Panzer (perhaps including the Dutch tanks)

>Rapid Reaction
is not really a true division, but mainly a container for SF, an air assault battalion, a mountaineer battalion, and the helicopters to support them
in reality I doubt the mountaineers would deploy far from Germany, but I suppose they could provide support in some high north region
it could probably generate follow-up battalions very quickly

>>63949164
>>>10th Panzer
>is the main punch clearly
wrong.

those are COIN formations. they hardly have any armor. to quote wikipedia: " The division is a unit of the German Army's stabilization forces and specializes in conflicts of low intensity."

>>63948877
Seven combat, the rest could be support and logistics. Doesn't even have to be uniformed soldiers.

>>63949164
>able to quickly deploy
kek. look at >>63948772
4 years to deploy is not quickly.

>>63947132
4chan is quite left wing compared to 10 years ago, all far right people moved to twitter and other chans while normies and bisexual thirdies came here

>>63947908
How much do you pay for some basic new york strip per pound there?

>>63949577
>4chan is quite left wing compared to 10 years ago
they're trolls and not presenting their genuine beliefs and convictions

>>63949556
>those are COIN formations
wrong
>they hardly have any armor
for modern combat, they have enough
>to quote wikipedia
lmao

>>63949574
>4 years to deploy is not quickly
the Lithuanian brigade is a new standing "peacetime" commitment

>>63940099 (OP)
fuck tanks. look at this total chad telling that bitch where the kitchen is

>>63949977
and we have the chink/zigger trolll farms spamming their disruupptive narratives, i.e. all the antii German/anti Polish/anti Euro stuff in this thread.

>>63950154
I suspect those too work for someone else than they claim, I've never seen them do anything besides try to convince people killing russians is socially acceptable

>>63949957
I don’t know what that is but generally you pay 20€/kg of beef.

>>63949977
>they're trolls and not presenting their genuine beliefs and convictions
No, theyre just thirdies and lefties. Twitter is 50x more right wing than even /pol/ now, hell even instagram is crazy

>>63950154
Thats 35% of the website now lol

>>63950234
Its a quality cut of steak that is $15/LB here in the states. Hard to say if you're getting a bad deal if I don't know the cut.

>>63950308
quality of the cow itself also matters
a new york strip (or just sirloin in some countries) from America, Australia, or Argentina is going to be vastly different from the same cut from India or China

>>63950154
Russia sucks but I still make fun of Germans because it's funny and they deserve it.

>>63940099 (OP)
>considering a singular Leo 2a8 costs 30 Million dollars
It costs 30 million to 'other' people buying them. You can bet your sweet ass that germany is getting them on the bono (or cheapo) from their own, basically nationalised companies

>>63951062
thats not how that works. A singular leo probably cost between 5-8 million euros depending on what you buy with it the rest is ammo/service/storage and other costs for its whole service life.

>>63951067
that's not how that works
while the sticker price does include some support costs, most of the recurring annual support costs is not factored into the contract price
it's impossible to forecast costs 30 years into the future

30 million euro/dollars is the cost of a new-build tank at current production rates, mainly because of the electronics - FCS, digital battlefield maps, networking, etc - which are leagues above Cold War comparisons and thus far more expensive

>>63951062
>germany is getting them on the bono (or cheapo) from their own, basically nationalised companies
even if that were true, this is like saying China can build tanks for free or dirt cheap because it buys from its nationalised companies
that's not how nationalisation works, you can't break the laws of physics by changing the ownership on the deed

go look up the basics of private vs public companies

>>63950308
How does a T-bone steak compare quality wise?

>>63951078
>it's impossible to forecast costs 30 years into the future
not in the sense that if you're only going to build 300 units they're going to be massively more expensive than if you decided to build 10 000 units

>>63951490
economies of scale is a whole 'nother issue

on that note, while economies of scale should result in a cheaper tank, it won't be fantastically cheaper; a lot depends on what the delivery timeframe on those 1,000 tanks is. you want it in 1 year's time? that's gonna hurt.
you want them in 20 years' time? practically no difference to modern production rate
you want them in 5 years' time? okay, we can build more factories... but what happens to those factories after the 1,000th tank is delivered?

see, in the 20-year scenario, by then a new tank will have been designed, and you can retool the factory to build that new tank for much cheaper than setting up a brand-new factory

and this is just a simplification. we haven't yet talked about lifetime parts support

>>63950308
Prices vary wildly in Europe, the French equivalent to a NYS would be a faux filet that you can find for as low as 20€/kg (9€/lb) at a supermarket

>>63951059
Oh, ein kleiner Scherzkeks weilt in unserer Mitte.

>>63946875
>the results are no worse.
Maybe don't use the army that couldn't drive 100km down a paved highway as your yardstick for military performance.

>>63947836
you're retarded and you've only ever witnessed this war, and are too retarded to understand why drones are as effective as they are in this war.

>>63946888
>all this fanfiction
you're retarded.

>>63950011
>the Lithuanian brigade is a new standing "peacetime" commitment
so your toe was a fantasy

>>63952368
who said anything about drones? ever heard about atgms?

>>63941616
nigga you have no clue about first world politcs

>>63944439
>us germans
Feiglinge und Pazifisten sind keine Deutschen. Anders als meine Vorfahren sterbe ich lieber frei als unter dem Fuß eines Autokraten zu leben.

>>63952515
Bundeswehr ist in NATO integriert. Im Kriegsfall untersteht die Bundeswehr einem US General. Sehr frei bist Du.

>>63952387
no, moron

>>63946074
Voting for the AFD is a vote for the kremlin. in a perfect world all AFD members would hang infront of the reichstag

>>63952368
>>63952394
The smaller problem is that tanks are vulnerable to ATGMs and drones (APS and anti-drone weaponry will help with that). The bigger problem is that datalinked artillery, missiles and drones can do much of what a tank can do at a fraction of the vulnerability.

>>63952547
Geh nach Russland wenn du Russenschwänze lutschen willst.

>>63952547
Waaaas, im Kriegsfall mit Verbündeten zusammen arbeiten?? Sag mir es ist nicht so

>>63952558
>The bigger problem is that datalinked artillery, missiles and drones can do much of what a tank can do at a fraction of the vulnerability.
absurd.
not mobile, not all-weather.

>>63952696
Befehl von Oben ist das Gegenteil von Zusammenarbeit

>>63952761
Mobile artillery and mobile drone-carrying vehicles can be just as mobile as tanks. Except they shoot and launch drones at ridiculous ranges compared to that of a tank gun.
>not all-weather
The shells don't fly when it rains, yes?

>>63940218
Poles live rent free in the Germbroken mind.

>>63952555
>in a perfect world all AFD members would hang infront of the reichstag
TRVKE

>>63952780
nta.
1. Amis haben keine Befehlsgewalt über Deutsche.
2. Wenn man deiner Logik folgt, gibt es selbst in ein- und derselben Armee keine Zusammenarbeit. Gott,bist du ein armes, selten dummes Schwein.

>>63952785
>Mobile artillery and mobile drone-carrying vehicles can be just as mobile as tanks
nope, they cannot defend themselves and are supposed to be in the rear

>>63952832
Defend against what? They're several km behind the front at least. That's why they're less vulnerable.

30 million dollar tanks are fucking insane. They can be taken out by a hundred dollar drone.

They could spend the money on literally anything else military wise and it'd make more sense.

>>63952835
so we are back at playing ww1. a maneuver brigade will be your end.

>>63952871
>a maneuver brigade
Lol
LMAO
Imagine if your tank has a 5km range (if at line of sight - easily avoidable in many terrains) and the enemy artillery and drones and ATGMs have 40km range. Those tanks will be shot to pieces long before they ever reach anything worth shooting at.

>>63940099 (OP)
isn't german military so underfunded that they can't feed their own soldiers

>>63952955
Yes Ivan, our soldiers are underfed and utterly unworthy for combat. You'll take berlin in 3 days, trust me. Just try it!

>>63952938
now you are slowly getting the problem.
your artillery is stuck and cannot go on the offensive.
meanwhile when your enemy will breakthrough, they can flank your whole artillery.

>>63952835
Counter-battery fire? Drones? Missiles?

>>63952818
>1. Amis haben keine Befehlsgewalt über Deutsche.
doch, SACEUR hat Befehlsgewalt über NATO

>>63953037
Nein, Amis haben keine Befehlsgewalt über Deutsche.
Und folgt man deiner Logik, gibt es selbst in ein- und derselben Armee keine Zusammenarbeit, du armes, selten dummes Schwein.

>>63953001
>cannot go on the offensive
And why would that be? It can advance at exactly the same speed as a tank, hitting targets at range as it goes.
>when your enemy will breakthrough, they can flank your whole artillery
When it breaks through a screen of artillery and missile fire, the carriers of those can retreat and stay alive. When it breaks through a screen of tanks, those tanks are dead.
>>63953035
All things that your tank much closer to the front is much more vulnerable to.

>>63953061
Russische Logik. Es gibt nur Sklaven und Herren, also sind in der NATO die Amis die Herren und alle anderen die Sklaven. Die russische Seele begreift etwas anderes garnicht.

>>63952558
factor in the cost of guided weapons and defeating the various anti-missile, anti-drone and anti-aerial-observation methods the enemy uses, and tanks become cheap enough to justify their cost, because you just can't beat having a gun-howitzer spitting APFSDS or HE within seconds of spotting the target with their own pretty spectacular optics

>>63953073
zeit dass wir die russen zurück lehern das sie sklaven sein
t- sehr moderate Flame

>>63953229
>anti-missile, anti-drone and anti-aerial-observation methods the enemy uses
Like russia has any of those. Except jammers I guess, but AI will see to that.

>>63953275
well there you go, that's why drones are extremely useful in the Ukraine war, for both sides
but what works for Ukraine and Russia is not necessarily what works for everyone else
the subject was the use of tanks in general

/k/ommandos would be the first I think to trot out the old saw about "preparing to fight the last war" yet all the dronefags on the board don't see that that's exactly what they're doing

>>63940099 (OP)
>Germany is preparing to order 1000 Leo 2s and 2500 GTK Boxers with the program planned to cost 25 billion dollars
Nice

>>63953284
/k/ommandos would prepare for the current war. Mind you I already took the effect of foreseeable technologies into effect, like AI on drones and long range ATGMs (including hypersonic ones that are very hard to counter with APS), but also anti-drone measures on tanks. I'm not one of those who would abolish all tanks, but I think they should not be the focus of investment. You on the other hand would apparently prepare for the cold war.

>>63953306
> I already took the effect of foreseeable technologies into effect
and who are you?
>hypersonic ATGMs
not in our lifetime, unless you're too young to post here
which might well be the case
> they should not be the focus of investment
and what makes you think they are?
>You on the other hand would apparently prepare for the cold war
you think a thousand tanks is the Cold War?
lol

>>63942257
Euro weenie talking about fighting. Try not to be a cucked faggot.

>>63940218
Funnily enough - it was Polish EU presidency that made it possible by lifting the restriction on deficit military spending.

>>63953421
Like germany would have cared for eu rules about deficit spending.

>>63950154
>>63950174
>I suspect those too work for someone else than they claim, I've never seen them do anything besides try to convince people killing russians is socially acceptable
Nta, around 70% to 80% of russian propaganda shilling is aimed at evoking emotions, simply spamming shit to see what sticks
The issue with that is that what works with newspaper comment sites, hell even with other boards on this mongolian pottery forum won't do shit if there's enough people knowing the topic where, if anything it will have the opposite effect making them instantly visible
Thus the bursts of laughter when they tried the "Kiev feint" here or the "tradpilled russia saviour of the white race" on /trv/
I bet a lot of the bottom of the barrel shills even know that they do more harm than good with it but they have quotas to reach so they don't give a shit and roll with the current metodichka even when it doesn't work

>>63945842
Vgh... The White Russians of Laos

>>63952858
>30 million dollar tanks are fucking insane. They can be taken out by a hundred dollar drone.
retard

>>63954498
it's a simplification.
are you really believing there's a tank gap with russia that needs to be closed like your politicians are telling you?
russia had many more tanks than ukraine before the invasion but look what happened to them.

>>63954562
tanks might in theory be great for maneuvering.
but no one will allow offensive maneuvers on russian soil since that will likely get you nuked.
nor will anyone allow defensive maneuvers on eu soil since that would mean temporally ceding large parts of poland to russia.

What's the point of having a fuckton of military equipment that they won't be able to maintain in 10 years ? They'll never use them so why tf would they buy a thousand MBT ? Is it just to flex against Russia kek ?

>>63954562
>are you really believing
Good morning SARR!

>>63954587
>but no one will allow offensive maneuvers on russian soil since that will likely get you nuked.
Like it got Ukraine nuked when they were in Kursk?

>>63954562
good morning ESL

>>63952955

Nice projection Vanya, as always

>>63940162
The order made by Austria exceeded 30m per tank afaik.

>>63952858
your post can be taken out by a drone, therefore your post is now obsolete, so you should shut the fuck up and never post again, retard.

>>63953069
>the carriers of those can retreat and stay alive
nope.
unless they care to run all the way back to their country of origin, they either have to permanently fuckoff out of there and hope the enemy runs out of fuel, or set up again and get flanked anyway.

this is a fundamentally naive mindset that you think you can replace direct support assets with those lurking tens of kilometers away, if your line does get broken (which the only reason you personally think it wouldn't is because of THIS war where two countries with bad airforces, good airdefence, and bad organisation above brigade size can't do it) you are super duper fucked, countries with good airforces can take it a step further and supress drone launch sites and artillery trying to stop the breach, making it even more garuanteed that they're going to dunk on you because you have NOTHING of substance to stand directly in their way.

>>63953306
>hypersonic ATGM's
...
do i even need to say anything?
how do you say this with a straight face?

>>63954562
>russia had many more (bad) tanks than ukraine
yep, and they were used in idiotic fashion as well, making them extremely easy to ambush.

>>63950234
>>63950308
Christ
Live in cow pasture
grass feed beef is 5-6 $ a lb
Ground is sub 3

>>63940099 (OP)
>1000 Leo 2s
a lot of fpv fodder. militarily completely useless. its just political corruption and greed

>>63952858
yeah but for rheinmetall its the easiest solution. if germany had ordered new weapons rheinmetall would have to invest money into research and development and setting up new production lines. with the leo2 that is already done and the production line is already in place, so by making the politicians to order just leo2s they can make the most money. i can imagine a lot of "lobbying" probably happened in the background.

once again im massively disappointed in my home country.

>>63954589
rheinmetall wants money, politicians want kickback deals. go figure. the ukraine war is just an excuse to transfer tax payer money into greedy private hands.

>>63952558
dont forget about mines. they were incredibly effective in stopping tank assaults in ukraine. demining plows turned out to be completely useless, line charges as well. there is no solution to this problem for now and they want to feed even more tanks into the grinder.

It's hilarious how the zigger shills argue with each other in impotent rage.