Thread 63943220

>russia cant design a modern tank engine
>uses an unreliable nazi engine smekalka'd from captured nazi tanks, design is 80yrs old
>entire tank then designed around this specific engine, cannot use any other engine
>propaganda hyping revolutionary "new" technology (that can in actuality be purchased by the general public)
>chinese leaders get interested
>chinese military tests it and finds it is all shit
>chinese media causes a shit storm to kill any public hype
>decades behind western fielded technology
>8 proven to exist
just watched lazerpig's vid, aged like fine wine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-opSlCGLGQ4
holy what an embarrassing effort
i'm convinced it will never see service
why did we ever take it seriously???

Okay, what blew up in the Ukraine this time?

>>63943220 (OP)
>uses an unreliable nazi engine smekalka'd from captured nazi tanks, design is 80yrs old
>entire tank then designed around this specific engine, cannot use any other engine
it is pretty rare for a tank to simply have another engine dropped into it
they are usually designed around a specific engine type

the T-14 engine also is different from the SLA16 engine that its supposedly based on
while the soviets did capture the SLA16 and would inspire their later engines
the SLA16 is an X16 engine while the T-14 is powered by an X12 engine

>>63943241
dunno, maybe a civilian hospital, its the only strategic resource you have been able to hit reliably since the start of the war
i just watched a YT video and wanted to talk about how bad the armata is

>>63943266
>they are usually designed around a specific engine type
yeah, but usual a modern and reliable design is chosen

>>63943220 (OP)
I remember this video getting a lot of hate, but only because of the discussion about the engine. Why does the idea that it not having a shitty nazi engine, but a homegrown shitty one, not make this thing as garbage as the video says?

>>63943310
exactly
either way it show how limited the russian weapons industry is

The only real problem with Armata is its 100% digital digital vision system which doesn't work as no one in the world has yet managed to solve this problem.

>63943241
3.5 years of war in, and I'm yet to see a single (1) zigger cope that isn't based on pure projecton or some nonsensical "no u"ing.

>>63943344
>digital digital vision system
driver looks through a periscope window to steer
and i have never seen any evidence of the armata having anything else

>>63943366
The commander's and gunner's vision is digital. Not even augmented, but 100% digital with picture from 360 degree cameras.

Anyway, the new meta is expendable soldiers and expendable weapons, so the strategy is about spending resources for minmaxing these factors (read: make 30000 Gerans/month to rape through whatever defence pathetic gayrapeans will be able to muster in the next 100 years or so).

>>63943344
>The only real problem
bro, its not the only problem. did you even read the op
>>63943405
>make 30000 Gerans/month to rape through whatever defence pathetic gayrapeans
you think europe can't solve a russian modified iranian drone when russia cant even build a modern tank?

>>63943220 (OP)
>uses an unreliable nazi engine smekalka'd from captured nazi tanks, design is 80yrs old
A german engine especially from that time is exremely reliable, its just them being unable to put german 1940s tech to use what makes it unreliable.

Unironically a german tiger would still hold up against russia in the modern day.

Anyways
>>>/bant/22898673

>>63943471
>you think europe can't solve
They obviously can't. At best they'll shot down 1% of the salvo (unlikely, more like 0.1%), then it's over them.

The question is what the drone swarm is going to target. Military targets in Poland and Baltics - highly likely, but the drones are slow so the units farther from the launch point will have plenty of time to disperse. Containment vessels of nuclear plants, dams of hydro plants are too tough for Gerans. Bridges are so-so, looks like it is kind of difficult to precisely hit the bridge deck with just GPS. Everything else related to energy production (natural gas plants, coal plants, control rooms of hydro and nuclear plants, solar panels fields, transformers etc), plants and factories producing anything else of value, ports' infrastructure, civil airports and civil aircraft, c&c rooms of military airorts, likely any museum and collection of value such as Louvres and RHS Gardens to kill the morale, elites themselves and especially their kids, so the dorms of Eton and like - evrything will be burned and reduced to rubble in the first 5 hours of teh war. Then the war is over.

>>63943241
More Russians.

>>63943241
Allegedly, Borisoglebsk air base in Voronezh Oblast

>>63943266
>inspire
>based
The idea of W and X engines, horizontal and vertical, never was revolutionary and they don't work well compared to normal engines.

>>63943241
Many ziggers, same old same old.

>>63943310
The issue with that video wasn't the engine itself, it's just the most glaring example of how uneducated lazerpig is and to what extend he simply misrepresents stuff while rambling as if he knows what he is talking about.
A fact that is really irritating because the ultimate conclusion that the Armata is vaporware shit is accurate.

To elaborate, the engine never saw actual use aside from maybe 1 or 2 prototypes in a Jagdtiger or Tiger II, sources on that are contradictory desu.
It certainly was never intended for the Porsche Tiger because those refer to the VK 45.01 (P), you know the design with an electric generator that didn't manage to be the Tiger I and instead ended up as Elefant/Ferdinand.
That design was already considered an abortion in late 1942, the decision to start development on the engine that would be the SGP Sla 16 only happened in 1943. So it assuredly is not the engine for the Porsche Tiger.
The Armata's engine also has very different proportions from the Sla 16, half as long, has a 30% reduction in height and less than half the width.

And to be a bit controversial, if they had used a modernized Sla 16, even if russified, it would have been better than what the Armata has now,

>>63943310
>homegrown shitty one
a "homegrown" one, wink-wink, nudge-nudge

>>63943765
kek'd

>>63943752
>The Armata's engine also has very different proportions from the Sla 16, half as long, has a 30% reduction in height and less than half the width.
>retard thinks that things are cloned they are always made 1-to-1
Bitch please. Soviets routinely deviated from the source material even when they'd buy the official license for production of something, be it cars, electronics or something else. Usually because they weren't able to replicate something, sometimes because they thought that they are smarter and they'd optimize things (which sometimes would work, but sometimes would field great disasters).

>>63943765
This. Like bruh, decades after a ton of soviet engineers low key accept how they've actually cloned shit, sometimes from incomplete data or from espionage or something else, often cloning stuff which they never fully understood. Like Su-24 being a hodgepodge of cloned elements from F-111 to TSR-2 and even Mirage IV. Or how Buran's glider was in fact an attempt of a direct copy of the Space Shuttle, because despite them developing their own stuff (more of a competitor to DynaSoar), at some point some ass blasted retard came in and demanded that they should instantly produce their own variant of what the americans have here.

>>63943774
If you deviate far enough things stop being clones, more importantly it usually tends to be a case of things being bigger/heavier etc. when you have issues replicating something.
And sure the data might be inaccurate with a special focus on the performance claims and its ability to run at full power, they are russians after all.
More importantly nothing we know substantiates lazerpig's claim that it is a development based on an engine from 1943, let alone a copy.

>>63943220 (OP)
Lazerpig is a fat retarded jew that makes shit up for views
>t. TZD supporter

>>63943822
>More importantly nothing we know substantiates lazerpig's claim that it is a development based on an engine from 1943, let alone a copy.
a) it's a widely known open secret in the russian military enthusiast community (from which that fag most likely took the info in the first place), even rabidly pro-regime media and communities (e.g. topwar) low-key acknowledge that in publications done by non-main authors and within the discussions of them;
b) there are also those memories re-posts online from of the engineers involved, from before Armata's time (when the engine initially was "developed" for a new generation of soviet tanks, which it lost to the turbine engine equipped T-80 project), which were reposted online in early to mid 2000s on one of those niche "narod" websites (kinda like geocities of russia).
You can verify both of these points if you put in the leg work for it. Translated screenshots and links were posted on 4chang at least a couple times as well.

>>63943220 (OP)
laserpig is a retarded, somewhat histrionic faggot that oversteps constantly in his attempt to make an entertaining video.
the T-14 is still a piece of shit though.

>>63943863
May I see them?
Because I have yet to see any in the almost 2 and 1/2 years since lazerpig made that video, both on the chan or the internet at large.
And its not like the archive turns up any images or memories about the armata engine

Lazerpig shares a lot with Russian equipment: they're both overinflated ego faggots who think touching boys is okay if you're the top.

>>63943973
It's hard to imagine Lazerpig's fat ass being on top.

>>63943973
>who think touching boys is okay if you're the top.
pig is the bottom one, retard

>>63943241
Definitely not Armatas because they are not operational lmao

>>63943220 (OP)
Has this guy ever shown a source for the engine claims?

>>63944099
No, he did name one document and then said almost word for word "that should be enough of a hint of where to start, start digging there and you will find the rest, I'm not going to do your research for you".

>>63944099
he's probably citing https://wavellroom.com/2023/02/10/armata-the-story-is-over/
written by a former brittish intelligence officer

>>63943241
Another russian blowjob couple

>>63944395
Again? Really?

>>63943752
>the most glaring example of how uneducated lazerpig is and to what extend he simply misrepresents stuff while rambling as if he knows what he is talking about
He's a fantastic example of Gell-Manning Amnesia, that's for sure. I've seen it happen with nearly all his videos

>>63944742
why?

>>63944630
II stopped counutinig, butu they also hit another bunker with the commander still in it.
It looks a bit like the SBU learned a thing or two from Mossad.

>>63945145
>be naval history autist
>watch laserpig video on naval engagement
>making tons of mistakes, confusing order of developments, ect
>realize he's making the same kind of fuckups i did when first learning about this stuff
>don't think much of it, assume he just branched out into something outside his knowledge base
>later the pig releases video on French tank development
>enjoy it
>see it posted in a history circle server
>poster who is autistic about interwar France loses his shit
>says the whole video is basically bullshit that barely relates to the actual development history
>pig releases his video on the T-14
>drama regarding the engine torque and design erupts
>realize I'm getting Gell-Mann'd
The torque issue is a particular highlight, he claims it was the result of a mixup in how each group measures torque. The issue is that the only way you could make that mixup is if you had basically no knowledge of how that measurement corresponds to reality. It would be like if he said the Sopwith Camel is a better plane than the A-10 because it has two guns compared to the A-10's one. Sure he could say "oops, forgot to take into account caliber", but you could only make that mistake if you didn't understand airplanes or guns at all

>>63945621
Nah, it's just a issue of when you work on long-form media content, you write and rewrite shit so long and so much that during the process shitty mistakes slip through the cracks into the final result. And you've, after watching the content for so long during production, become blind to those fuck ups. Similarly how a software developer can subconsciously avoid a ton of issues in his code and don't notice them until a third-party does QA for it.

>>63943858
based moderate

>>63945643
>proofreading is hard
>blatant misinformation is just part and parcel of longform content
Have higher standards

>>63943220 (OP)
>entire tank then designed around this specific engine, cannot use any other engine
This was one of his dumbest fucking points, because the basis of good armored fighting vehicle design is NO WASTED VOLUME.
Every fucking cubed inch of space that is redundant, makes your vehicle objectively worse. Accordingly when you design an engine bay for a tank you squeeze that fucking engine in there, it's cooling systems and ideally have no space left over.
You're going to design smaller more compact engines in the future so this is entirely acceptable.

>>63945671
Yes, all media is very bad at this. Big, small, indie, corporate. Always has been.

>>63945688
>This was one of his dumbest fucking points
It's a point about how they have no other options to pivot the design, not that it was badly designed. For all the retards who'd go "why won't they just swap out a different engine". You're anchoring your project to shit, so the project itself gets fucked. You can't built a castle on sand and all that.

>>63943774
>Retard who obviously has no clue how engine development works
When you develop shit from previous engines you keep major features like the angle between cylinders, the engine block dimensions, valve design, shit like that.
There's not a single relation between the Sla16 and the Armata engine aside from being X in layout, they don't even have the same number of cylinders for fuck sake.
Saying the Armata engine is related to the Sla16 is like saying your V12 sports car engine is related to the Maybach HL230 tank engine because they're both V's and have 12 cylinders. Oh wait that'd actually make them MORE related than the Sla16-Armata connection.

>>63945710
Russians themselves acknowledge that their engine is based on shit they've studied from captured german tanks. Cool it with the cope.

>>63945707
>It's a point about how they have no other options to pivot the design
Like every other tank designed in the last eighty fucking years.
They'll figure something out eventually, you can probably jam a gas turbine in there with ease because they're tiny.
>>63945714
>Souce
>Lazerpig's ass

>>63945718
>Souce
Faggot, you've literally had the source linked earlier in the thread, which in fact links to RU sources as well

>>63945718
>Like every other tank designed in the last eighty fucking years.
Yes, but other tanks didn't choose a known bad failed engine design because YOLO

>>63945721
>The guy who thinks a soccer-mom's car has as much torque as a T-90M is still at it
Lmao, don't you have liver-disease to look at or something?
>>63945724
I mean the Armata engine seems to work, granted the whole tank is a dumb idea.
They don't really have anything else that makes that much horsepower.

>>63945726
My brown russia apologist, consider the following https://topwar.ru/207749-armaty-ne-budet-mozhno-rashoditsja.html

>>63945732
>Topwar.ru
Lol, lmao

>>63945734
The prime pro-regime military-themed online source for your vatnik delusions and butthurt, the fact that even they acknowledge this says a lot to those who understand the RU online space.

lol, lmao even

>>63945732
Calm, comrade.
You will get 2300 Armatas in 2020 year: https://tass.com/defense/961838

>>63945734
>>63945744

Did Russia blow something big up recently? I haven't seen NAFO-troons this upset in a while.

>>63943220 (OP)
It gets funnier when you realize
> russians lie about nearly every aspect of the armata, from reliability to lethality to production potential
> europe and the US panick and begin to plan successors and upgrade packages for their tanks to help counter this new threat
> turns out the armata was vaporware
> you've now handed the enemy a massive equipment upgrade with absolutely no benefit to yourself

>>63943513
>Unironically a german tiger would still hold up against russia in the modern day.
Personally I'd issue Tigers to engineering units to use as tractors, not to be used in combat

>>63945732
>it's reliable because he's russian!
>created in the early 90s
Are you gonna ignore that that engine began its development in the 70s and the theory of it's being based on 2 BMP engines (same bore, and stroke in between the V2 and UTD ) that was a major redesign of the V2
Bolting together 2 local engines is trivial compared to mimicking a 50 years old prototype and changing the block, cooling...

>>63945779
>ziggers copying yet another thing
Man, you ziggers don't have an ounce of creativity in your spirit

>>63943310
>homegrown
coming up with a working engine from scratch is actually hard, my machinist friend has been working on an original (simple) miniature engine design for over two years now, aided by modern software tools

>>63945621
He's not the only one. I remember the first time Perun Gell-Mann'd me. I've basically given up on Youtube as a source of information and treat it strictly as a source of entertainment now.

>>63945643
No, it's someone with delusions of competence making shit up to confirm their opinions because if they believe it then it must be true, regardless of the facts. ("Never let the facts get in the way of a good story," as the saying goes.) What he failed to realize is that if you do that about a subject that's largely followed by autists, you're going to get called out for it and ultimately humiliated by actual experts, as we saw with the whole Chieftain thing.

Fuck him and fuck you.

>>63945795
Time is a flat circle

>>63945951
The mig-25 (mig-31) actually works pretty well though. It’s been successful against the ukraine

>>63945854
That’s because he’s one person, presumably working in his free time, and presumably has little prior experience developing engine designs

>>63945951
>>63945955
why are commies always pulling this smug expression, makes me want to grab a fire hydrant and bludgeon in their stupid face

>>63946236
Its not an exclusively hobbyist problem. The Koreans are potentially going with Rolls Royce for their 6th gen engine after dropping GE, because of what a ruinous money pit developing their own would be. Engines are hard.

>>63943220 (OP)
>russia cant design a modern tank engine

Let's be real, nobody can. The only real manufacturer of modern tank engines is MTU in germany.
If you're not using or licensing their design, you either have a gas guzzling turbine with a gigantic fucking IR signature because turbines push more air through, or you have some ancient outdated underpowered diesel with terrible reliability.

>>63945766
Thats is cute uaz.

>>63943271
there are multiple videos debunking every single thing he listed in his shitty mi6 sponsored video

>>63946493
>mi6 sponsored
Lmao what

>>63945714
>studied from captured german tanks
So it has nothing to to with the Sla 16 considering it never saw usage in german tanks?

>>63946493
I don't think you know what debunking means. Just saying "na uh he's wrong" isn't debunking. Chieftain made this point when he said nobody really knows anything about the armata's engine. But we know it's shit because there's multiple videos of it breaking down.

>>63945822
>Are you gonna ignore that that engine began its development in the 70s
That's when the initial cloning was done for the "next gen tank", when USSR wanted to compete with filthy westerners, but in the end chose the turbine engine and T-80 project. The "compressor station engine" was a later project from the 90s when they've tried to market the failed engine to private sector.

>>63946510
Russoids check under their beds for MI6 agents every night.
It's actually Boris Johnson in their ceiling all along.

>>63946493
>debunking
stop with the commieboo glazing

>>63946712
Russians did in fact captured a ton of protortype shit

>>63943956
>May I see them?
you are not some special snow flake that must have everything delivered to it on silver platter. get off your fat entitled ass and go find them yourself. that anon gave clear directions on the origins

>>63943220 (OP)
Le cochon laser is not someone you should take as a source and only a source of entertainment.

>>63945621
>if you had basically no knowledge of how that measurement corresponds to reality.
this is literally vast majority of engineers out there that got their degrees through memorization of mandatory material

>>63945621
>you could make that mixup is if you had basically no knowledge of how that measurement
Remember the time NASA fucked up due to imperial measuring kek

>>63946766
Or in other words you've got nothing.

>>63943863
Yeah well "Common wisdom" has it that the Audi 5.2 V10 and the Lamborghini 5.0 V10 are related. In fact they are not, among other things the Lamborghini engine has a bore spacing of 88 mm while the Audi engine has 90 mm. It's also a "well known fact" that the Toyota 1GZ-FE V12 is essentially two 1JZ I6 mated at the crank, despite those designs being completely unrelated.

>>63946743
While we don't know much about the Armata engine, the few details that we have (and that are shown in the Red effect video, such as the completely different crankshaft phylosophy) point towards a completely separate designs.

>>63947099
>Red effect
He's even worse than the fat scottish faggot, he literally is russiaboo retard who takes everything at face value and glazes russians at the first moment possible

>>63943241
kyiv, formerly kiev

>>63946219
>the ukraine

>>63947109
A broken clock is still right twice a day. And when that broken clock shows you a tunnel crank for the Armata engine while the German engine had a more conventionnal design, you know it has a point.

>>63946259
>comparing low-bypass turbofan design to piston engine design
and the point of this is?

>>63947123
>An erect cock is still in ass twice a day.
probably a russia proverb or something

>>63946219
The fake country Oinkraine, amirite, Jack from Texas oblast?

Designing isn’t Russia’s problem, it is and has always been a lack of manufacturing capability. They can’t or won’t spend the money it would take to re-tool a new production line to make any new designs. They would never be able to just go to Siemens or whoever to buy the tools, but they could have gotten something from China or Korea (hyper corrupt). If they really wanted to they could have managed it. The problem is, any money for a new production line would look so much better in someone’s pocket so that’s what happened. As an institution the Russian MoD definitely would like new designs, but individuals in positions to facilitate and make that happen would rather pocket the money, that’s all.

>>63947211
>They can’t or won’t spend the money
They've spent more than $2 billion on manufacturing expansion for Armata project.

>They would never be able to just go to Siemens or whoever to buy the tools
They did in fact do this. Because most of the work for the project was done prior to 2022 and western companies gladly sold shit. Some still do via an obvious intermediary.

>>63947211
>Designing isn’t Russia’s problem, it is and has always been a lack of manufacturing capability
it's both

>>63946250
Their entire thing is just jebating people into doing dumb things.
The problem is they often fail to back up their jebating with any meaningful counter when someone takes a swing at them.

>>63947123
>vatnik being a broken clock is good
>spunkpig being a broken clock is bad

>>63947377
Christ, start evaluating a message on its content and not on its messengers for five goddamn minutes. That engine is not a derivative of the Porsche design, anybody who's not a fucking wrenchlet retard can see that.

>>63945862
>Perun Gell-Mann'd me
You mind elaborating? Haven't watched his stuff in quite some time.

I dunno shit about engines but that argument always seemed a bit disingenuous to me. Like saying "oh yeah this new car is using a combustion engine, which is a type of engine that was invented in 1850!"

>>63948126
>that argument always seemed a bit disingenuous to me.
not from the perspective that even the newest power plants still generate power by boiling water

>>63948126
The configuration of the Armata engine isn't really common and when you have a row engines build up on each other (and sharing a lot of problems throught the similar design) then it isn't really out of the ordinary to make that claim, it is rather logical.

What is more interesting is how perticular heated the topic is and how you can trace this back to russians never letting anything rest and their dumb asshole behavior of bringing everything up again trying to make it fit their narrative. If the whole thing would have happened with any other nations engine, it would have been forgotten a long time. But since vatniks can't let have anything rest until it is rewritten in their favor or they are the only ones who teach their version of the story to others, this shit will still go on a while.

Just so the 'but i'm not a vatnik, but...' faction gets a heart attack or feels unjustified attacked, let me write it out again: If it wasn't for the vatniks butthurt the whole thing would just have fizzled out by now, since no one is as obsessed with it than them.

>>63943220 (OP)
>lazerpig

>>63948260
>since no one is as obsessed with it than them
Incorrect.
I'm to autistic and dumb to leave the topic alone whenever I see people assert that lazerpig's is right about he connection with the Sla 16.
Guess that's why I like being on /k/.

>>63948119
His criticism of Russia's ship maintenance program (justified) because the US has a bunch of carriers and we don't seem to have a problem with keeping them operational. He delivered it with his usual confidence and smoothness, sounding like the expert that he presents himself as, yet he had no idea what he was talking about in this particular case.

Is he right about everything else? How the hell should I know? The only stuff that I know about defense logistics is what I hear on his channel. I only know that the one time he started talking about my field of expertise, he got it badly wrong. I'm not expecting a Youtuber from Australia to know all the details here, but he got it wrong on a basic conceptual level, and then he presented that piece of fiction as a factual argument.

>>63949359
Thanks I'll have to make sure to take a look at it

>>63949359
Elaborate on the ship topic, what's exactly the issue with his points

>>63946219
>The mig-25 (mig-31) actually works pretty well though.

For its intended role of "go in a straight line as fast and as high as you can towards those NATO bombers and don't worry about the maintenance budget or the range because you probably won't be making it back anyway", yeah it's pretty good. Outside of that niche, not so much.

Impressive as a piece of aeronautical engineering but kinda shit as something to rely on.

>>63946766
The classic response when you have absolutely no ability to substantiate what you say.

>>63950022
>Impressive as a piece of aeronautical engineering but kinda shit as something to rely on.

>>63943220 (OP)
Is this one of those NAFO propaganda posts I keep seeing on /b/? Christ.

>>63943220 (OP)
>using lazerpig to support any argument
LOL you really shouldn't trust people like that. Even if you want to hate on Russia, believing a retard and being willfully ignorant is not the way. I guess it is guaranteed replies for your bait from autists like me tho.
Have we even seen the Armata recently? It was probably taken out back and shot once Russia realized there's no need to pump loadsa rubles into a new design that will get droned just like a cheap rust buckets they have in storage.

>>63950061
Meh. Supersonic strategic bombers are inherently cool but I'm a bit lukewarm on them in general because we never got any of the REALLY cool designs. Can you imagine if we had gotten the M-50 (or even better, the M-60) or this monstrosity?

>>63949893
I'm not going to look up the video and pick it apart again, but the main thing that bothered me was presenting the USN's lack of problems with maintaining its nuclear carrier fleet as axiomatic, when anyone with even a passing knowledge of the subject knows that this is not the case.

>>63950075
nope, its reality knocking

>>63950129
well, his conclusion about the armata being shit is still correct and i find the video entertaining
3 yrs of fukkscale war and never armata in vombat

>>63946219
Most successful Soviet/Russian fighter in history is Su-15 Flagon. It has 3:1 K:D ratio against airliners. You really wouldn't want to be a Korean Air Lines pilot sent to fight against the mighty Soviet Air Force.

>>63950248
Ahaaa
Yet another inspiration for signature anime mechanical designs has been found... thank you

I kinda enjoy the intense butthurt screeching lazerpig provokes from the /pol/tards.

>>63951035
>/pol/tards
>implying
These days it's mostly, if not exclusively, autists

>>63943241
another tcc station
russia seems to like ukrainians more than nafo does

>>63950061
they burn and fall apart on landing pretty impressively

>>63943220 (OP)
Whether Lazercunt is right or wrong, Armata is objectively shit on account that Russia couldn't even use it in an actual war for more than parading it as a scare tactic and firing off several shots for photo-ops. The fact that they are too scared to see it blown to shit by FPV's or, even worse, by a Bradley, means they won't field it ever to save face and keep sending Mad Max abominations and Nork kit instead of their analgovnet Russia Stronk supertank.

>>63943220 (OP)
its pretty damn incredible how dogshit russian military hardware is.

>>63950261
I feel like you're being a bit too autistic about this. Every field with everything has "problems", as anyone working in them for long enough can tell you. Some of those come down to human resources (as in the types of people working in the organization), some come down to bureaucracy, some come down to shit processes, some come down to outside fuckery which the organization has to live with because it's not in the force to affect. However, there are different worlds of problems when you try to compare some internal butthurt and inefficiency vs literally not being able to fuckin' have the thing work and repeatedly shitting the bed before the world. Also, this would be excusable if the second example was from some retarded shithole like Iran or maybe Venezuela, but not from a "second army in the world super power with a strong history of navy".

>>63950056
My negro in Christ, links were repeatedly posted in this thread alone, to both EN and RU sources.

>>63950129
>It was probably taken out back and shot once Russia realized there's no need to pump loadsa rubles
But they did pump those rubles during 2012-2022, they were literally announcing new variants of it up to like 2020 or later, such as the unmanned variant.

>>63948301
Let's be real, you are here for the drama and not actually about to talk stuff through. If it were any way different, we would see people actually talk about stuff instead parroting
>le lazerpig le bad
for hours with no basically no substance behind it.

>>63951391
Yea they had that BMP replacement in the works too. Everyone talks like Russia doesn't know their tanks and APCs are death traps but they knew they needed replacing. When the three day operation showed the future of tank warfare the Armata program stopped dead. No reason to spend anymore when their old POS fleet could be filled with convicts/conscripts and sent to the frontline to explode for cheaper. I wonder if Armata will even come back once the war ends or if Russia will just move on to another new design built around the future that cheap drones showed everyone.

>>63952560
>When the three day operation showed the future of tank warfare the Armata program stopped dead
The program effectively died in 2015 when the oil market fell and stabilized on cheaper prices, instead of continuing the growth to $250 per barrel and more, which was expected by the higher echelons of the russian elite. They literally planned to throw in tens of billions of dollars more into the project, on top of billions already throw in, but those additional $50 billion never materialized. That's literally the reason why most of their cool projects from 2005-2010 never actually got of the ground. A big fleet of Su-57s. A replacement for Tu-160. A new super family of space rockets. A fuckin' moon base. Dozens and dozens of these projects were killed because they were too expensive because of inherent corruption. They thought that oil and gas money will continue to grow almost exponentially, just as they've observed in 2000-2005, so most of their plans took that into account and they'd think "fuck it, we'll have the money even despite the corruption".

>>63946259
so how the fuck does that hack Musk do it then ???

>>63951384
This conversation went the same way that it always does here.
>mention problem about perun video
>someone wants explanation
>explain problem
>no, you misunderstood him

Buy a banner, Perun.

>>63951403
>we would see people actually talk about stuff instead parroting le lazerpig le bad
Nice delusion you've got there. It might even be convincing if you didn't post it in a thread that already has quite a few posts about why and how he was incorrect.