https://www.hartpunkt.de/fcas-erhaelt-frankreich-80-prozent-am-neuen-new-generation-fighter/
> FCAS: Will France Get 80 Percent of the New Generation Fighter?

(1/2)
> The CEO of the French aircraft manufacturer Dassault, Eric Trappier, has
> repeatedly pointed out in the past that, in his view, his company is capable
> of building a new fighter jet without support from third parties. Moreover,
> he is dissatisfied with the allocation of tasks in the French-German-Spanish
> armament project Future Combat Air System (FCAS) and, just a few weeks ago
> during an interview at the Paris Air Show, demanded leadership of the FCAS
> sub-project for the development of a new fighter aircraft – the New Generation
> Fighter. As an alternative, he hinted that Dassault might withdraw from the
> program altogether.
>
> Reportedly, these disputes within the FCAS consortium have already led to
> delays in finalizing the proposals for the upcoming Phase 2 of the project,
> which is intended to build airworthy demonstrators.
>
> According to information obtained by hartpunkt from well-informed sources,
> the French government has now apparently backed Dassault’s demands. It is
> said that the German Ministry of Defence in Berlin has been informed that
> France is aiming for an 80 percent workshare for the New Generation Fighter.
>
> If true, this would completely overturn the workshare agreements that were
> negotiated at length between the nations and industrial partners. A partnership
> on equal footing could then no longer be claimed. Observers believe that with
> this demand for more than three-quarters of the workshare, France is aiming
> for full design sovereignty both for the aircraft and for the system-of-systems,
> with the fighter at its core.
>

>>63948514 (OP)
(2/2)
> In the long term, this could mean the end of Germany’s fighter aircraft
> manufacturing capability, since all essential components would be in French
> hands. The development and construction of so-called Collaborative Combat
> Aircraft – unmanned combat drones accompanying the fighter – would hardly
> compensate for this loss in terms of scale and expertise. According to a study
> by the German Aerospace Industries Association (BDLI), the 38 Eurofighters of
> Tranche 4 alone secure around 7,800 high-tech jobs at more than 100 companies
> in Germany.
>
> Christoph Schmid, the SPD’s rapporteur for the Air Force and FCAS on the
> Bundestag’s Defence Committee, has for some time been hearing from industry
> circles about Dassault’s possible efforts to rebalance the fighter workshare
> but has yet to receive any official confirmation.
>
> If an 80 percent share is indeed demanded by the French government and this
> demand is not withdrawn, Schmid believes this could be the “nail in the
> coffin” for the joint project. “We cannot agree to that,” Schmid told
> hartpunkt. Accepting such a demand would mean giving up too much independence
> and sovereignty, ultimately financing a French project with German money.
>
> The BDLI was not available for comment, and a spokesperson for the German
> Ministry of Defence could not be reached at short notice. However, according
> to ministry circles, Germany still stands by the existing agreements within
> the FCAS consortium. Since the new demands are coming from the French side,
> they say, the solution must also be found there. It now remains to be seen
> how the stakeholders involved – including employees and industry – will react
> to the French move. For tomorrow, Monday, the works council of Airbus Defence
> and Space has scheduled a short-notice works meeting, which will also address FCAS and Dassault.

>>63948514 (OP)
>>63948519
I hate those frogniggers so fucking much it's unreal.

Never ever do projects with the french. I am saying that from my own project experience.
Just get Spain and the Swedes and build a true 6th gen fighter.

>>63948514 (OP)
Didn't France pull similar stupid during the Typhoon's development, ex. CV capability, leading to them leaving when people said no? Some shit doesn't change I guess.

finally this abortion of a project is dead. MGCS will hopefully follow suit. Fuck France.

>>63948603
yes. And they pulled out of Boxer too when the VBCI wasn't chosen.

>source: trust me bro my father work at FCAS.gmbh
>Confirmed by: fucking no one.
and here be 600 posts about how the French are the worst of the worst and terrible at cooperation because they left one project that wasn't meeting half their need.

>>63948514 (OP)
>>63948519
Let them build their 5.5 gen carrier fighter on their own and see how it sells. At the end it will be a technical and financial failure like the Rafale.

>>63948630
hartpunkt is reliable and the fuckery of Dassault is no secret.

>>63948514 (OP)

No matter what agreement that FCAS partners come to its is not going to change the fact that France and Germany want fundamentally different systems. The Germans want a large very high endurance air dominance fighter and the French basically want a domestic F-35C.

This project will end one of 2 ways:

1) Germany will stall everything for years and years complaining and trying to get its way until France has no choice but to go it alone.

2) An agreement will be reached and the consortium will spend 10 years developing the system only to produce a fighter Germany will hate and not buy. The Bundestag will throw a fit and the Germans will bail on the project but not before they stop paying years before putting tremendous strain on the French purse.

This project is a suicide pact.

>>63948514 (OP)
frogs gonna frog, but i cant believe that germany et. al put themselves into this position to be exploited by them after the debacle with the eurofighter. they should've learned their lesson by now.

>>63948514 (OP)
Wow. Super crazy behaviour thats really out of character for France. No one could have seen this coming!
Meanwhile for the rest of Europe they will have to listen to Marcron give yet another table slapping, impassioned speech about how vitally important it is to only buy European weapons, but what hes really saying is Europe should only be allowed to buy from France.

>>63948514 (OP)
>Be the only country to give a shit about keeping a proper MIC in their country
>Everyone else cries and rages about it
You guys are retards and France is right. They should not share all the tech skills they've accumulated while everyone else in Europe spent the last 50 years being lame and gay. They just do things for themselves and will pull off if it's not favourable for them, that's what republicans want for the US and nobody would complain about it, be honest

>>63949938
>They should not share all the tech skills they've accumulated while everyone else in Europe spent the last 50 years being lame and gay. They just do things for themselves and will pull off if it's not favourable for them, that's what republicans want for the US and nobody would complain about it, be honest

No one is saying they shouldnt have their own MIC and be in complete control over what they choose to build or export.
The problem is the nigger behavior of baiting in countries into a what they claim will be a multinational venture, then stealing as much of your "partners" research and development and money as you can, then inventing a bunch of problems so you can pull out and reap all the benefits.
This isnt a one off. The Fr*nch have a history of doing this over and over again. Then you have to listen to all the seething and raging that other Europeans dont want to buy their stuff. Its obnoxious.

>>63949938
wow i didnt know france was so far ahead of the rest of europe that an 80% demand of the workshare was warranted while everyone else has to split the remaining 20% among themselves.

At this point Germany is completely fucked. France knows all they have them bent over a barrel. What is Germany going to do if FCAS falls through? Going to make your own? Germany doesnt have the money or technology
Cant join anyone else join anyone else either.
They partnered with France despite all of the warnings just to spite Brittan for leaving the EU.
Now Tempest work share is locked in between its partners and has no room left of Germany unless its just pure financial partnership at this point.
Saab says its not going to be making a 6th gen in a traditional sense, and is focusing more on a loyal wingman project and the US wont share shit with anyone.

>>63950005
Germany didn't need France to complete the EF.

>>63950087
Youre right, they needed Brittan. They also needed Brittan to continue all the planned upgrades.

>>63948514 (OP)
>>63948519
Hmm I get their point because France has an aviation industry and knowledge while Germany does not but this is just like the EC Tiger again where everything will be produced by the French and mostly for the French including the spare parts.

>>63950005
Lil bro you really think the US won’t sell their 6th gen, same for the UK?

>>63950266
>lil bro
go back to whatever shithole you crawled out of

>>63950266
>Lil bro
lol fuck off retard.
>think the US won’t sell their 6th gen
No they wont. Just like with the F-22.
>same for the UK?
They might, but Germany doesnt want to just be a customer. They want workshare, manufactuing, and technical know how.
They are fucked and by extension so is Spain, how they largely hitched their wagons to Germany by way of airbus.
They have zero leverage with the French. When Pierre says bend over, they have no choice but to go face down ass up.

>>63948514 (OP)
>>63948519
>euros are back at the humiliation ritual as usal
Well well welll...
>What is Germany going to do if FCAS falls through? Going to make your own?
If they can, they would've done it already, but they didn't.

>>63950315
>>63950317
Seethe, boomers.
> No they wont. Just like with the F-22.
Lil bro already memory holed everything trump said like a month ago. Also iirc Germany makes the F-35 fuselage now despite being the latest customer to buy the F-35 and not even that many at that.
> They might, but Germany doesnt want to just be a customer. They want workshare, manufactuing, and technical know how.
Ok, and?
>They are fucked and by extension so is Spain, how they largely hitched their wagons to Germany by way of airbus.
They have zero leverage with the French. When Pierre says bend over, they have no choice but to go face down ass up.
You’re just thinking to highly of yourself frog bro, ain’t nobody fucked when no one is going to buy your fighter or is going to drop out of FCAS. After the Rafael getting murked by J-10s it’s probably even more wise to dip out.

>>63950409
>Germany makes the F-35 fuselage now
>this somehow means they can make 5th gen from scratch
Turks also make body parts for F-35 but they can't even into 4.5th gen right now.
>ain’t nobody fucked when no one is going to buy your fighter or is going to drop out of FCAS
France is the only country in Europe besides the Brits who can make all of the jet components, including the engines, in house, which is why Rafale is selling so well to 3rd world countries at the moment. It's literally sanction free.

>>63950449
> Turks also make body parts for F-35
They don’t, they got kicked off the program when they bought that Russian SAM. Nigga how many decades are you behind the news lol
> can't even into 4.5th gen right now.
The Khan or w/e it’s called is a 5th gen and exists afaik. I also wouldn’t put it past them to cook something up with the help of Rolls Royce and BAE just like Korea got its F-16 copy and Super Bug w bodykit because of Lockheed helping them.
> France is the only country in Europe besides the Brits who can make all of the jet components, including the engines, in house, which is why Rafale is selling so well to 3rd world countries at the moment. It's literally sanction free.
Alright I give you that, although I don’t think it’s about sanctions but the US putting more restrictions on what thirdies can buy since US stuff is getting extremely potent like the F-15EX, F-16V or the thirdie unobtainium F-35.

>>63950005
>Germany doesnt have the money or technology
wrong
doubly wrong if we team up with Spain and Sweden
we have way more money than France and we have ADS, MTU Aero, Diehl, Helsing, Hensoldt, if we partner with the others also Saab, Indra, ITP Aero
it's doable

>>63950502
>They don’t
They did make the fuselage right up until the relationship soured, and they probably already have the zigs right there.
>The Khan or w/e it’s called is a 5th gen and exists afaik.
Then explain why they're purchasing Typhoon en masse.
https://www.overtdefense.com/2025/07/03/germany-finally-approves-export-of-eurofighter-typhoon-jets-to-turkiye/

>>63950449
France also has no stealth planes, and is stuck on 4.5 gen, when both the US and China have already flown 6th gen prototypes and even Russia has like 20x Su-57 (even the worst stealth fighter is still a stealth fighter)

The etartal Jean-Jacques

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>>63950522
>ads
Who
>MTU Aero
Literally all they do is maintenance lol
> Diehl
Haven’t done anything since the IRIS-T and said IRIS-T is also outdated now, although cheap I guess. SLX also can’t get off the ground despite being just a scaled up IRIS-T S
>Helsing
Who, the vampire hunter?
>Hensoldt
Dogshit radars, objectively
>Saab
Literally a failing company.
>Indra
>ITP Aero
The last time Spain was relevant in aviation was when they made Hispano Suiza engines (with the Suiza aka engineering part being French)

Stop acting up, you can’t even make a trainer or anything that isn’t a small scale model. Be happy if Merz can make a deal with Trump for the F-47.

>>63950557
Dub of truth
> https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2023/04/08/rafale-radar-scattering-simulation/

>https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2022/09/26/su-57-radar-scattering-simulation/

>Rafale median RCS : 1.99-3.99 sqrm
>Su-57 median RCS :0.39-0.48 sqrm

Even the worst vodnik larping attempt at 5th gen is still miles ahead of frognigger shitcans that has recently been shat on by TEMU chinkcrafts

> B..b..b..but muh indigenous dassault and safran
kek

>>63950409
>trump said like a month ago
Trump says a lot of shit. He will also be gone in 3 more years.
Just because your being disingenuous, what he actually said was there might be a possibility of selling a watered down version to certain allies.
>Ok, and?
Clueless zoomnigger, I refuse engage with the rest of your bad faith posts

>>63950522
>wrong
Right.
>Spain
Spain has absolutely zero experience with making fighter aircraft let alone a 6th gen. Seriously, give me the last indigenous Spanish fighter that they made. This is delusional.
>Sweeden
Saab isnt making a traditional 6th gen. They are going all in on the lower tier wing man.

Sorry Krautbro, the French have you buttfucked.

Imagine being so buckbroken that they don't even dare to imagine they be able to make the plane alone.

Buy F-35 from Arerika
Reverse engineer the important things
It will be cheaper and faster than any intraeuro corrabolation

Protip: that's what they are really will do bar the reversing part

>>63950634
nope, even a socdem representative said the French are too cocky. It's not happening, FCAS is dead.

>>63948514 (OP)
>France makes the plane
>Germany makes the tank
Very simple.

>>63950808
no, if you have more than two braincells you know it's not that simple.

>>63950808
Except the plane that french can muster is an inferior 4th gen that recently got splashed all over Punjab lmao

Maybe if they can show up with anything other than 1:1 mock-up, that would at least grant them some high ground in work share negotiation

>>63950808
Even Turkey makes its own tank nowadays. It's that simple.

>>63948514 (OP)
So its the Eurofighter all over again.

>>63948514 (OP)
>pay us for our new jet
>gg no re
so much for yuropeen unity

>>63950087
No.
They needed Britain to pick up the slack and fulfill the French programs while crying about shit like the CAS module because Germany didn't want the Eurofighter to have it while Italy and Britain did.
Germany is little better than France as a partner. They will cry and stamp their feet if you so much as suggest a minor improvement or alteration to their perceived parameters.

Everyone with half a brain called that France and Germany would destroy the entire program before it took off because both are little emperors who can't be reasonable.
I feel bad for the Italians personally. They lost Britain as a partner over Brexit and have to near exclusively deal with the gibbering manchildren now.
I can see France fucking them over for the aircraft carriers.

>>63948514 (OP)
Why anyone even bothers trying to cooperate with the French is beyond me.

>>63948590
no i legit can see why most of europe hates germany

besides their subs and tanks ifv's everything else they touched has gone south so south you can see space mexico

you name it
emc? they had such outlandish demands for the medical teams that the whole thing went to orbit
eurodrone? from a single engine long range attack drone to a double engine mid range mid alt recon and shitty attack drone
tiger heli almost went to the recycle big because of the demands they made to the point that they had to make a german variant
c-uas they demanded for greece to get out of the program
meanwhile greece is the only european nation as of right now that has a combat proven system LOL and they made it in like 6 months in order to be deployed on the red sea to counter houthi drones
eurofighter? oh boy their stupidity and slowness has made it basicly EOL
MEKO FRIGATES? last variant the 400 is a fucking 10.000 ton ship that is so underarmed a fucking FAC that take it out

>>63948514 (OP)
>>63948519
what gets left out
Germany has linked any payments in the FCAS program to progress in the MGCS program.
But German industry partners in the MGCS program don't have any incentive to make haste since Rheinmetall is raking in the orders for the Leo II. So they have their order books filled at the moment and are assuming that once the market has been flooded with hundreds if not a thousand plus new Leo's there won't be much demand for the MGCS.
The French on the other hand do need MGCS because there aren't any new Leclerc being build.
In effect the German government is choosing to starve the FCAS by holding back it's funding for it. So the Germans want the FCAS program to be funded by the French and the Spanish with the promise that they will pay their share somewhere in the future, trust us guys.

The Germans starving FCAS has some other implications. Mainly will the Germans allow exports? Right now a treaty between France and Germany allows the Germans to veto any export of a joint program where Germany has over 20% work share.
If the Germans don't want FCAS to succeed why would they allow them to be exported? after all any orders placed would help fund the program and they want to starve it of funding. Undoing what they are trying to do by linking it to the MGCS program.
So if France /Dassault want to secure potential exports it has to knock German work share down to 20% or below. Note they don't need to up the French share to 80% just get the German share down to 20%.

This brings us to the canary in the coal mine.
The Spanish, if this was as claimed the frogs acting up and being stupid for no good reason you'd expect them to point it out as well.
But they haven't.

This isn't the frogs being spastics for the sake of being spastics. It's the Germans smothering the program quietly in the background and the Frogs overreacting in public.

>>63950266
>same for the UK
Why is the UK a partner in a 6th gen program if the US will just sell to them?
They will have asked if they could buy them, been given the cold shoulder and then gone of and started GCAP

>>63951013
kek, France has demanded most of MGCS as well with the turret and gun systems. Nobody is falling for that bullshit.

>>63950808
Lol you think france is conceding anything? they WILL have the largest workshare of everything or they're out, period

>>63948531
If I could piss in all your drinks, as a Frenchman, that would be a dream

>>63951030
MGCS was a pre-war, "lets make a new tank to replace our aging tank fleet and keep industry alive" program. Germany doesn't need it anymore because they are just getting a fuck ton of new Leo's so the government doesn't want or need MGCS nor does their industry.
But the French don't have the Leclerc in production, they need MGCS to replace their tank fleet so they want it to make progress hence taking more of it into their own hands now that Germany is losing interest.

>>63951094
The same could be said about FCAS program
Now that the Rafale has been exposed as a mediocre fighter-bomber airframe, and it’s getting increasingly doubtful that any nation outside of literally third world shitholes would ever settle for anything less than 5th gen going into 2030s-2040s, even with a poorly built one like su-57.
French can keep patting themselves on the back, but the Rafale wont fair well in 10 years even against the likes of Algeria, now that they are getting slavshit “5th gen”.
With that big mouth and an ever mounting deficit, France will be in for a nasty wake up call, even against third world, that’s is if the so called “native french” will still be there in 30 years

>>63948514 (OP)
We should have holocausted all the frogniggers in 1940.
FCAS will blow up and france will build a shitheap on their own like rafale again, and germany .. idk wtf germany will do desu.
Hopefully just go full FUCK IT and dump 9001 billion into a fighter, but we're fucking late by now.

Pas mon problème.

Not even a fan of the F-35
But the seething from frogniggers never fails to propel my side all the way to the exosphere
Just check the comment section for the lul
Frogniggers, might not be so different from Vatniggers after all

https://www.opex360.com/2025/07/04/le-cout-des-infrastructures-dediees-aux-futurs-f-35a-allemands-a-encore-bondi-de-plus-de-60/

Can't wait to see frogniggers seething in 20 years when all of the Rafale got raped en-massed by thirdies in stealth chinkshits

>>63950620
I mentioned Trump because I live in the here and now, not 4 years away. Nonetheless you’re making it sound like Trump's successor won’t sell the plane and even a 10% worse F-47 is still going to be better than whatever Rafail 1.1 the French will shit out. Y’all can’t even make engines as strong as the F-15s despite the Rafail being newer lol.

>>63950874
>I can see France fucking them over for the aircraft carriers.
No I don't think so. I remember hearing about successful collaboration on lighter naval stuff with their southern cousins.
Better than that obese german frigates lmao

>>63951183
>Y’all

>>63951016
Same reason why the UK made the Typhoon instead of buying the F-16? NGAD also wasn’t revealed until recently.

Don't forget, faggots

Deutschland uber alles

>>63948514 (OP)
Fucken finally, we can both move away from this quagmire pushed by that dickhead Macron. Project was doomed from the start since we are so autistic about "muh intellecutal property" and the need of a carrier based version.
I remember laughing my ass off the day Macaroni and Merkel announced this joke.

Do we seriously expect that France alone can pay for a 6th gen project?

>>63951311
lol no

This is gonna be another eurofighter isn't it

>french join with Germans, Spaniards, Italians and British
>chimp out at the idea of having to share work
>take/steal info and leave

>>63950005
Germany is already getting a small amount of F-35A's for B61 delivery.

They could "easily" get more and upgrade their Typhoons. This should be good until about 2050 at which point they can just buy Tempest off the shelf.

>>63951138
I've only seen swedes say shit like this

>>63951183
>Nonetheless you’re making it sound like Trump's successor
that would make sense only if the programs had started while Trump was in the white house. Even then they know about the two term limit and all programs aren't due until well after he's left office.
this means that they didn't start their own programs just because Trump wouldn't sell them.
>>63951231
The Brits and Japaneses certainly knew that the US was working on a 6th gen and probably had a rough idea of what it would be able to do. They also would have asked if the US was planning on selling it to them.
That they both decided that they need their own program means that the they don't think that the US's offerings are what they need or more likely that the US isn't planning on selling them.
That the French want to make their own is just what the frogs do.
But that Italy, Spain and Germany also singed on program separate from the US makes it clear that this is about the US not wanting to sell rather than them thinking they should go at it alone.
Those six nations are also the export market for the F-47. They are the ones that are close enough to the US and the budget to buy them in numbers that make it worth it.
The US won't risk leaks or a third party getting access to them by selling a dozen of Indonesia or the Fins.
all those factors indicate that it's the US not looking to sell rather than other countries not looking to buy.
>>63951121
the French are left in a pickle with FCAS the same as with MGCS.
The Germans are buying the F35 and those will keep them competitive in the air for an other decade or two.
The French know that while they might be able to stretch the time the Rafale can stay competitive they will need a new platform before the Germans need one.
This is also why Germany is dragging it's feet in both programs, they know the French need it more than them.
>Algeria
they aren't buying (let see them get delivered) because of France but Morocco.

Fuck it feels good to trigger so many anglo and kraut dick suckers.

>>63951560
>the US isn't planning on selling them.
They were told as much outright. The US said they're happy to provide 6th gen technologies and expertise to Japan and the UK, but wouldn't export NGAD. They've since come out recently saying they might be open to selling the F-47, but that's VERY recent and frankly not something the UK or Japan are going to rely on since they were told for 5+ years it wouldn't be happening, and as seen with Japan and the F-22, even if you're a direct contributor to the program the US can still decide to not sell to you.

>>63951560
>the French are left in a pickle with FCAS the same as with MGCS.
That's an interesting way of saying that you've been cucked, Hans.

>>63951826
> Frognigger will be entering the 30s and 40s with Rafale F5 at best.
> Somehow the side operating a f35 fleet is akshually getting the shorter end of the deal

?????

>>63951907
muh strategic autonomy
buy Fr- I mean European

>>63951916
> Buy french
the heck are you even talking about ?
airbus germany and spain division will straight up reject that 80% workshare demand by frogniggers
The Uk and Germany are forging seperate strategic nuclear collaboration, starting with this long range missile joint project, independent from amerimutt
> https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/decisions-pending-on-form-of-uk-german-strike-missile/
Neither of them will be buying any hardware from french, not anytime soon
That's if french still insist on killing FCAS as dassault is doing now

> Airbus Germany chief Thomas Pretzl considers the Future Combat Air System (FCAS), planned for the mid-forties, to be absolutely necessary
> However, the French Dassault Aviation is the wrong partner, Pretzl said today at a works meeting at Airbus in Manching, according to a statement from his office. "Partnership is based on cooperation and not against each other. There are more attractive and suitable partners in Europe," emphasized the head of the works council.

>https://www.hartpunkt.de/airbus-betriebsrat-dassault-fuer-fcas-der-falsche-partner/

Lmfao, it's EF all over again. The joint frogmonkey-german FCAS is as good as dead
Anyway, good luck with you Rafale Evolution going into the 2040s and 50s, frogniggers

>>63951991
he also suggested upgrading Typhoons to reduce their profile and get stealth abilities, which could get be online in 2030.

>>63951991
Good. Fuck the frogs.

>>63951991
No way the frogs actually killed ANOTHER project, wtf is wrong with them? Are they actually that difficult to work with?

>>63952098
A bodykit upgrade EF could be a pretty good stop-gap, with new avionic and EW, can easily see it going toe to toe with the f-35, possibly even edge it in some situation.
the EF was created with A2A as its 1st priority, after all
F-35 should be the 1st choice over it in deep strike mission, though

>>63952121
It's just Dassault that's a pain to work with from what I can tell

>>63951940
>We are making a random precision gay deep strike missile that our tasteless plane can drop to avoid unnecessary casualties, we'll produce 10 of them otherwise our gay nation will complain that we are not gay enough. That'll show that France is done !
You still can't send a nuke without asking daddy US for permission, so what's the point of pretending you are a nation when France could just remove you from the map in 1 click ?
>Picrel is the real reason for this glowing thread btw

Based french lol, euro troons deserve to be humiliated

>>63952176
> unironically making muh noooook noise
holy crap, are you frogniggers is so butthurt you starting to sound more and more like vatniggers now ?

>>63951991
Everyone in France is happy with the outcome of EF, the Rafale is pretty good and is getting upgraded regularly so who gives a shit, in the end it was just a retarded political move and both countries have great engineers that can make a plane on a tight budget. Everyone being racist in this thread is a pure retard

>>63952209
KEK

>>63952192
stop crying, lapdog

>>63952192
>Are you is you
Yeah go back to your raping occupations Muhammed, stop pretending that you are German

>>63952223
>>63952224
> more frogmonkey chimping noises
can’t wait till frogniggers start cutting boomers pension just to fund their Rafale EVO, you’ll need it :^)

>>63952249
>BARK BARK BARK BARK
sorry I don't have my subhuman translator on

>>63952252
Then why do you sound so mad then ?
Isn’t dassault and safran so technologically superior to the rest of yuropoors that you frogmonkey can go all alone, amirite ?
Still not happy that germs and spaniards will likely, more than ever now to leave it to you to do it all by urself again ?

>>63952249
Nigga you have the exact same pension model with even more brown people like you abusing it shut the fuck up we are on the same yuropoor boat

>>63952224
13% of France is muslim btw, so I don't think you're in any position to be accusing others of being an arab

>>63952224
Funny coming from a frog whose country is 90% mudslime.

>>63952272
You know in France you basically can't vote right wing because fucking Germans did something absolutely retarded 60 years ago and now because of it all the white race will slowly disappear. Anyway I'm referring to this person in particular so drop your shitty ass stats if you want, here's mine : 30% of the population in the US is not white and it's going down quickly

>>63952313
It's actually more like 40% non-White, get your racism stats right.

>>63952313
>start mentioning the us out of nowhere
lol frog is absolutely mindbroken

>>63952326
let's talk about Germany then...
oh

>>63952334
> so mindbroken, have to resort to posting decade-old retarded basedjak memes instead
But here, have one last (You) from me

Brothers of the correct skin colour, we shall be united, stop fighting. Our kind is diminishing, we must be supportive and fight the real enemy: our respective governments, go vote and protest with equal rage of those who try to remove your kind from existence

>>63951826
>>63951907
I'm Hans nor Pierre.
I'm worse, their bastard hate child, b*lgian.

>>63952176
the US also has a radar installation on Majorca in Spain.
I've visited it a decade or so ago with some friends that have a holiday home at the base of the mountain it's on

>>63952209
>>63952488
it isn't racism or infighting, it's the ziggers trying to spread as much discontent as they can

>>63952499
Yup, am seeing a lot of glowing “Thibaut from Ardennes oblast” vibe in >>63952488

>>63952313
But the FN was the party with the biggest number of voters?

>>63952149
Yeah, they are kind of autistically entitled and touchy with "muh intellectual property" and "gimme the added value, daddy". At least we managed to hire airbus for the maritime patrol bird, and Saab for the AWACS replacement.

>>63951212
Imagine a mind too weak to use contractions. You would melt down trying to comprehend the finish language. I'dnt recommend it for ya.

I see your souless weak and pointless meme with a better one, from a better time. Earth is healing, and you will too anon. We are gonna help you remember how to win, how to feel good. How to be great. Would you like that anon? Being great?

We will Make Anon Great Again. It's going to be amazing, just you watch. Because watching is all you are able to do, as you know, a cuck.

>>63951560
> or more likely that the US isn't planning on selling them.
What’s the point of making shit up when trump literally just said they’re going to sell the F-47 but 10% worse vs the version the US is going to use?

>>63951991
Damn it might be over. Given that Germany and Spain also work closely together on the new eurofighter radar and canard drone I wouldn’t be surprised if Spain follows suit but what do they want to work on? Also not a good look when France can just close down the German Airbus part since said German part of Airbus is sizing down a lot to begin with due to lack of workers, too many retirees etc while Airbus just opened a new location in the US.

>>63948514 (OP)
>>63948519
Isn't this same frog fuckery how in the end the two countries ended up running two parallel development programs for essentially the same tank, the Leopard 1 and the AMX-30, instead of the planned joint Europanzer?

Can someone explain me why France and Dassault claim they are the only one who can build a modern aircraft - not just are there two other aircraft from the same generation in Europe.

Rafale basically needs state's subsidies to be sold in the world - with all the cheap loans they offer.

>>63956175
Germany can always demand their part to be nationalized again. It happened with the elentronics part of Airbus which became Hensoldt.

>>63956364
What they mean is that the Rafale was funded and built exclusively by France unlike the Gripen (no domestic engine) and Eurofighter (built by 4 countries).
To imply the UK and Germany couldn't reasonably build a 4.5th gen fighter by themselves is classic French arrogance though. They absolutely could, it would've just been more expensive for them to do so.

Right now they're just trying to extract as much workshare as they can from Germany and Spain because they believe they'd be less screwed if FCAS fell apart than Germany and Spain would be.

>>63956524
Nah frogniggers are getting desperate
They unironically are mentioning the likes of aerospace powerhouse like India, Indonesia or fucking Qatar though
godspeed, Trappier :^)

>>63956562
pic related

>>63948514 (OP)
Frankly, altering the deal like that should be the last straw. Time to end this crap. The frogs can build the rafale2, german can build a loyal wingman with sweden or something and buy GCAP once it arrives. MGCS becomes a KMW/Rheinmetall cooperation with maybe some junior partners that will accept being such.

>>63956569
>India
So annoying the Russians gave up on working on the SU-57 with them
(they recently offered the SU-57 with full code access though)
>Indonesia
Weren't they kicked off South Koreas 5th? Gen plane program for stealing shit
>Qatar
The most reliable somehow, France is going to be French about them though so they'll demand 100% of the work, that Qatar pay half, and that Qatar gets none of the tech.

The fact that India is more interested in upgrading their MIG-29s at this point than giving a shit about their rafales is somewhat telling though.

>>63950808
This

>unorganic anti-french propaganda in action
Reminder there's active trollfarm agent here.
Thought I'd not be surprised there's ""allies"" who would prefer to work against Europe than fall behind a competitor.

>>63956562
>>63956569
Are you really cherry picking some fucking random lines on an fucking article comment's section done by one poor dude and creating a narrative around it? Honestly that's really lame.

Can someone tldr me on why there are two "european" projects for a next gen fighter? Why didn't France and Uk work together like they did with the concorde?

>>63957608
Concorde was dogshit and the UK and France haven’t worked together for like over 2 decades now.

>>63957712
>Concorde was dogshit
kys

>>63957608
France wants CATOBAR-capable planes for their carrier. The UK's carriers don't have catapults so they don't want the plane's designed to be limited by something they have no use for.
France's jet engine tech also isn't as sophisticated as the UK's so they would never be selected as the main supplier. Without those contracts their domestic jet engine industry would go bust and that would be very bad for France.

>>63956524

>>63956524
wait till the frogs hear about the resurging german aviation industry, now that rheinmetall has the green light of the us. Give it 1 year and a 6th gen fighter will appear ''out of nowhere''

>>63958384
Least obvious falseflag

>>63949938
>be only european country that tries to hold onto it's post colonial influence through military activity
>loose it anyway
>the other countries should subsidize our mic
?
the french geopolitical situation is very unique, however subsidizing your domestic market with european money is against the european idea.
french exceptionalism sucks ass
>but muh rafale sales
well yeah, when you are the only one willing to sell to shitholes you almost can't loose these sales

>>63956259
Krauts have no comparable aerospace industry as France so it won't be the same as the tanks.

>>63956727
The Indogs stole it to use as a bargaining chip to get into France's program.

>>63958467
Germany's aerospace sector is still plenty capable (Airbus, MTU, Hensoldt,...)
What they're lacking is experience, but they can compensate for that thanks to two very important things the French are lacking
>money
>humility
If FCAS doesn't work out they'd still have more than enough funds and know-how to make their own jets, especially if they set up a couple of joint ventures with foreign firms in area's they're lacking like jet engines.

>>63958622
Can the germans and spaniards not just team up with the swedes to make something? Sweden has decades of experience making fighter jets.

7th Generation fighters will enable weaponized bureaucracy.

>>63958622
Airbus isn’t German, MTU Aero can’t make even engines and only does maintenance and Hensoldt also doesn’t really do anything aviation wise except for the Mk1a radar (which is an old British system to begin with) The only German company that realistically does anything aviation wise is Liebherr. Planes aren’t anything simple like in WW2 and even there Germany’s planes sucked dick against anything that weren’t early Russian planes.

Look at the DLR Diabolo, the best thing Germans came up with is a Su 57 clone.

Another major problem for Germany is the fact that it’s completely unattractive for any company due to high electricity prices, overaged workforce and shit like CO2 climate tax for companies. I’ve just read today DOW is moving out of Germany, closing their plants and Daimler Trucks wants to cut 5000 jobs in Germany too.

>>63959134
> t.

>>63959134 can have another (you) for low quality gayt

>>63951055
This. EU recently threw a bit of cash onto trying to develop a next gen MBT, and guess who isn't even trying to get in on the action
I am more surprised that Czechs aren't invited

I'm starting to think it's the whole plan of Germany:

>pretend they want to partner with France to finally have the leaders of Europe mass produce top-grade weapons
>lobby euro countries to stay away from that project and make a separate project
>pretend you really want to make europe strong and not push yourself forward
>make negotiation drag forever to make France waste development time
>accuse France of not taking the project seriously if they do exactly what you are doing
>buy stuff from US to not be completely naked, still pretend to want a sovereign solution
>blame France for being difficult as you refuse to compromise
>hope to come out looking better than the French even as you sold yourself and Europe to stranger for that objective