It has been a while.
Post swords.
Spearfags and the "Elmslie Typology" are not welcome here.

>>63957282 (OP)
Sex with Katzbalger.

>>63957439
Damn, who made that one? Looks modern, but also extremely attractive.
OP is from Mateusz Sulowski.

>>63957282 (OP)
Aww. are the two-edged snowflakes feeling all triggered again?

>>63958128
What is the appeal of these? I never got it, the knife-handle just doesn't feel right compared with a proper hilt.

And why does hardly anyone train with the arming/knightly sword, aka the sword actually used throughout the Middle Ages?

>>63958219
>And why does hardly anyone train with the arming/knightly sword,

well, the main reason would be, lets list the surviving manuals for the arming sword in a martial context:

>>63958219
>the knife-handle doesnt feel right

um.

>>63958254
and a depiction in art, showing that sword-like grip.

allright, I'm running out of single-edged photos.

and I might poke fun at people who do "X not welcome" comments, but I'm not going to poke them with spear pics.

ok, I lied. One spear. One spear only, Vassily.
and only because its beautiful.

>>63958286
Posting a spear is contributing. Being a spearfag in a sword thread is not. Know the difference.

>So they gave orders to the armourers and the craftsmen sat down in conference. They went into the groves of the plain and cut willow and box-wood; they cast for them axes of nine score pounds, and great swords they cast with blades of six score pounds each one, with pommels and hilts of thirty pounds. They cast for Gilgamesh the axe ‘Might of Heroes’ and the bow of Anshan; and Gilgamesh was armed and Enkidu; and the weight of the arms they carried was thirty score pounds.

Ok, these are not that big, but the largest one is 8 foot 10 inches.

She is mad for an entire month. Thats new. Sword.

>>63958316
The Haja-no-Ontachi at the Insonokami Shrine in Nara is that big. It is 15 feet long and weighs 165 lbs.

>>63958236
Messers were literally constructed with knife handles, anything without isn't a messer
Absolute tourists

>>63958394
Meant for >>63958254

>>63958394
>"confidentlyincorrect": the messer post.

that's a very nice, simple statement.
its also totally wrong. You see, knife handles were constructed both with scales, and with a stick, or "whittle tang".
So a messer handle might be two scales. But the exact same messer can also have an enclosed wooden core - that whittle tang, with a leather grip over it (or no leather.) and its still a messer.

In fact, there's a change in messers in the 16th century, with increasing numbers of whittle tanged messers, which reflects the same shift in popularity of domestic knives being made with whittle tangs.

>>63958394
and here's an example from a river-find that still has its tang fully enclosed by wood, which still has traces of the cord and leather that would've bound the hilt.

>>63958394
here are two drawings of finds from Slovenia:
First off, these are typical messers, with the full-width tang for scales, probably of wood: and yes, those are the sort of knife-like handles you were imagining.

>>63958394
>>63958504
And here, to compare against that picture are two similar to this >>63958473 example, just with no wood at all remaining.
And you should be able to see that they have narrow, short tangs, instead of the full width of the blade like the other pair - and that sort of narrow tang would be fully enclosed, a whittle tang, and would most likely be finished with a a leather or cord binding, and some sort of end cap, very similar to a kashira on a japanese sword.

>>63957282 (OP)
Swords are cool.

and to finally hammer a stake through the "all messers are constructed with knife handles" heart, here is one last langes messer, photographed by Roland Warzecha, from his "Dimicator" pages. as you can see this is a whittle tang, with the stub of a nagel just visible on the crossguard - very definitely a messer, but very clearly not a scale tang construction.
So there you go, you "absolute tourist", confidently making statements which are in fact, completely wrong. Hope you've learnt something. Maybe you'll shock me and say "sorry, I was wrong".
Go on, try it.

>>63958544
Gorgeous. This is peak sword design.

>>63958236
>lets list the surviving manuals for the arming sword in a martial context:
I.33, Fiore, Ringeck, Mair. There's probably more, but I feel like that's a sufficient list. Not that I'm trying to imply that arming swords were more common than longswords as a primary weapon, that's obviously incorrect.

>>63958465
>>63958473
They both have the same grip shape which is what the original complaint referred to
>erm no the constructi-
Doesn't matter if the end result is the same

>>63958639
The 16th century is when a lot of things peaked aesthetically, in my opinion.

>>63958680
you can put the exact same grip shape on both sword and messer. you can put the exact same surface material on them. they can be identical in every way, if the maker so desired. while most messer grips are more slab-sided and rectangular or octagonal, not all were. While most were bare wood, not all were.

I just wanted to respond to the "the knife handle doesnt feel right" as a fun little comment that you can have the same style if you wanted, because they're fun like that. there's a lot of variation.

The whole bit about construction and whittle tangs with the various bits of evidence, on the other hand, was simply because that guy was both completely wrong, and a dick about it, by going "absolute tourists" like he knows more about a subject he was in fact completely wrong about. And because dickheads like that deserve to be shown that they are in fact, dicks.

>>63958709
>most
>most
Yeah, I wonder why, and by most it's more like almost all aside from modern customs which at that rate might as well just discard classifications
You really get off on missing the point and taking offense for others don't cha?

>>63957282 (OP)
i want a gladius replica

>>63958722
>and by most it's more like almost all aside from modern customs
Ah yes. modern customs like >>63958591 , >>63958530 , >>63958473 ?


>You really get off on missing the point and taking offense for others
My, what a nice big projector you have there.

>>63958465
>tanged messers
aka falchions, just because a museum calls a thing that's explicitly distinguishable from a messer by its handle like that doesn't really make the distinction any less clear

>>63958804
>tanged messers
>aka falchions,

falchions with nagels?

>>63958797
Which all have the same grip shape, you absolute mongoloid
And your post speaks for itself, you wanted to come in and be the hero against the big meanie dick

>>63958818
>Which all have the same grip shape,

wow. I've heard of x-ray vision, but what's your superpower that enables you to look through time and see what the exact shapes of the grips were prior to rotting away to nothing?

what a clown.

or are you just arguing because you have to be a contrarian?

>>63958842
It's pretty fucking apparent from a glance
First it was
>ur a dick >:(
Now it's
>erm contrarian
Maybe stop getting uppity over banter that wasn't even directed at you

>>63958817
they put those on arming swords and longswords too

did this make them messers now?

>>63958850
how convincing.

>>63958853
now that I'd like to see.

>>63958874
do you train acting like an absolute faggot or does it come naturally?

>>63958901
sorry, should I fellate your infinite self-referential wisdom, wait for you to post your "typology" as proof, or something? no actual evidence presented so far for your claims.

you're talking shit, I called you out on it, you've been bleating like a spanked child since. How long is this butthurt posturing going to continue?

>>63958928
so far you waste no time fellating yourself like an absoute whore shitting an entire thread with your garbage

a hysterical woman has more dignity than you

>>63958944
I've posted 7 images of examples of the detail being discussed.
You have posted - none. .
I've given examples from the Netherlands, Slovenia, and north Germany of tangs for the discussion of whittle tangs on messers.
You've given - none.

what you have contributed is name-calling about "Absolute tourists", on a subject you evidently don't have a clue about but imagine you did, and then wailing like a beaten toddler when you got called out, and name-calling.

"hysterical woman"? Look in the mirror, Madame.
What a clown.

>>63958279
>I might poke fun at people who do "X not welcome" comments
You think this makes you look like a cool snarky joss whedon character but it just makes you look like a salty bitch lol

>>63959006
I don't know what you two niggers are fighting over but you talk like a faggot and your shits all retarded.

Post a gun you own with a timestamp.

Are machetes a viable alternative to real swords?

>>63959006
Not the same anon
Maybe if you weren't blind and retarded you would have noticed the sudden change in writing style
Absolutely laughable

>>63959057
a machete could be a replacement for some single edged swords but in general no.
a good machete cant stab. they simply arent stiff enough and will flex.
if it doesnt flex its a shitty machete shaped object.
you are limited to slashes with a machete. now there are some swords that are for slashing but its not the same, they dont handle the same.

>>63957282 (OP)
What's wrong with Elmslie? I literally don't know.

>>63962259
This entire thread is classic Elmslie.
He's a smarmy redditcore retard who shits up threads with autistic minutiae and thinks that he knows better than EVERYBODY, so he's always hostile and condescending.
He also has a lol-tier "typology."
He is sad and friendless.

>>63957282 (OP)
I kinda fuckin love killijs and I don't know why

>>63962394
Boy have I got one for you

>>63962405
this does not spark joy

>>63957282 (OP)
Here anons, have a Swedish infantry officer's sword with a German 'damast' blade. IIRC the Swedes didn't hyper etch for contrast like the Germans and to a lesser extent, Austria/France/Russia did, but that could be survivorship bias and age as almost all the sabres of this vintage that have survived with patterned blades seem to be either faint or outright polished out.

Just won an antique 1773 pallasch blade, I have a really weird unique sabre hilt no one on Earth can find the provenance of (it was never finished), I think it would be fun to get someone skilled enough with brass to chisel the hilt and finish it with some annealing and whatnot and use it for a nice big proper royal guard heavy cavalry sabre. Will post guard in reply, if you know what it is for please tell me because fucking nobody has ever been able to track it down. Made in France but the Parisian hilt makers did custom stuff for the entire world.

>>63962617
The guard. the )0( shape in front is really weird almost like it was supposed to have a plate in front of it. Exposed holes like that are ripe for thrusting. But I suppose if point forward for your own thrust it won't matter.

Floral + symmetric + circular around the top is very Russian/Austrian IMO in terms of their presentation stuff. Nothing has been chiseled or detailed yet. Made by an L'Etailleur or something, spelling might be a bit off.

Guard is mostly symmetrical if a bit crooked. Tongue is flat which is counter to most french sabres having rather squared tongues that hook into the pommel. This seems like it is maybe even over-cast, about 1-1.25" long and .75" wide, but it would be drilled through and the tang would pass through it and then the pommel after the grip and then peening.

I wish I could figure out what this guard was at least attempted to be made for initially, but I also still want to have someone 'finish' it and give it the purpose it deserved.

Ah, yes. The messer. The "European katana" as it is often called by the experts.

>>63962864
Look at that fupa

Just checking in to see if that anon that irrationally hates Albion has started posting yet

>>63963655
no, this one is the one who irrationally hates Emslie.

or maybe they're the same, and they flip to irrationally hating different stuff every so often. they also sometimes go off on demented rants about various makers being "woke" and shit like that.

>>63962617
The highly contrated pattern welding in the context of "damascus steel" is related to the oriental fashion, especially in the late 18th and into the 19th centuries. Swedes seem to have been less emamored with it than the British, French and Germans, while Poles and Spanish had their own oriental influences so they did their own thing.

>>63957282 (OP)
Falx

>>63963937
Haha, it's a sakabato
>>63963889
>irrationally

I have an irrational hatred of Sellsword Arts and Robin Sword because all they do is Zoomerslop content that is regurgitation of information already done by others, except it seems so much more like LOOK AT ME LOOK HOW COOL AND SUAVE AND BADASS I am.

>>63963933
From what I recall, 17-18th century Ottoman wootz was generally polished plain. I suppose it comes down to wootz as a means to an end, the same way Japanese folding or shear steel all approach the same convergence point of "methods used to try and make the steel as homogenous as possible" or deliberately contrasted for art. Supposedly the Ottomans did this for maintenance which makes sense. With most of the wootz you see in museums, a bit of survivorship bias towards finer and more presentation/display-based swords is impossible to avoid. The nicer swords get nicer maintenance and less battlefield wear, which means you can have a stronger etch. Of course mid-late 19th century damask fashion in Europe wrt officer blades is much the same. The Italians later on in the 1890s and 1900s were fond of long flexible blades not unlike sport blades in nice patterned damask. Given the legitimate issue of the Radaelli derived officer fencing + the hot temper of young italian officers, a blade that is designed to flex more easily might actually have been the better choice to avoid their officer corps killing each other before they even get to the Isonzo.
>Here is an unused example I won last year, meant for the 1873 pattern cavalry officer sabre but a non regulation form that approaches a Patton sabre blade except about 300 grams. WOuld consider this a Binary pattern which the Germans are the best at, alongside the Rose damask which I'm not much of a fan of desu.

https://ncc.academia.edu/AnnFeuerbach here is a good resource and academic on wootz and blade metallurgy in general. She also has a youtube channel with good videos.

http://web.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/ and here is an unsecured college course page as far as I can tell from the University of Kiel. Lots and lots of stuff to download here before it gets deleted.

>>63964729
https://metallurgyfordummies.com/ and another link

Don't let your bookmarked forum posts disappear and literally be erased from reality, download them, print as PDFs, save as much knowledge as you can.

>>63964729
>http://web.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/ and here is an unsecured college course page as far as I can tell from the University of Kiel. Lots and lots of stuff to download here before it gets deleted.
I made a pdf out of the Japanese Armoury Manual couple years ago, but I don't have the same motivation for that mess.

>>63963933
Should have mentioned that these blades specifically were made by Solingen. Yes there are some very rare made-in-field sort of wootz blades for the colonial armies and officers, but it appears that Solingen was the only ESTABLISHED location that routinely did decorative lamination. I have a French sabre with a binary damask blade that is either German or a smaller French cutler, no one knows. Swedes had the Svallings of Eskilstuna (spelling for both?) who did lots and lots of their blades, but officers could also get stuff from abroad. My example is W Schmoltz, who appears to be common to Swedes, probably had a satellite shop or presence near the officers academy the same way that Schnitzer & Kirschbaum and a few other German mills seemed to have almost exclusive rights to Italian contracts.

Here are some photos from a Solingen catalog which can be found and downloaded here: https://www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/Eickhorn/inhalt.html

>>63957282 (OP)
Back when I did some fencing I ended up in possession of one of these, only sword I've owned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvVkISpKmpY

Was fun to play with, making nice cuts with good edge alignment using a sword is a lot harder than it looks and a fun skill to practice. One little tilt to either side can make the difference between a clean cut or smacking the target like a baseball bat.
They're pretty damn dangerous though, even to the person using them if you're not careful.

>>63964553
>LOOK AT ME LOOK HOW COOL AND SUAVE AND BADASS
gay

>>63965444
trips of truth

>>63962409
Doesn't the sacred sword of mooslam or whatever have two totally separate blades starting in like the last third of the sword?

>>63957282 (OP)
Has there been any change in the popularity of swords with isekai's rise?

>>63968173
>with isekai's rise?
Who?

>>63968266
John Isekai.

>>63968173
Why do you think there would be? Do you think swords were not overwhelmingly popular in fiction beforehand?

Question:
Would a curved double edge sword makes sense?
How curved(some middle eastern) the sword would be till it does not make sense?

>>63962394
>Don't know why
You like the feel of a curved sword.

>>63968411
Apart from blade geometry I don't really see why it wouldn't, but you're just going to be using one of the two at a time anyways so it'd just be redundant (and double the sharpening).

>>63968411
plenty of european sabres had a sharpened false edge, at least on the forward part of the blade.

it's sufficient for false edge cuts and the sharpening forms a spear point that penetrates better and more straight than a one sided edge.

>How curved(some middle eastern) the sword would be till it does not make sense?
once you get super curved swords like that you get a really tiny effective reach that's similar to a short sword or a large knife at best, so the straighter it is the more useful it is. doubly so since those curved swords are specialized for draw cuts and are very very lightly built so you don't have much mass in the blade for a cleaving cut, particularly when you can't make a draw cut with a false edge.

an off center point would make aiming and controlling the false edge cut more difficult, although those middle eastern swords have techniques where you gash opponent's hand with the point over the guard or shield using the curved sword sort of like a thrust, not that you'd need a false edge for that.

>>63968411
Some are quite absurd.
There's a good video on this, though:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAvM3rQInJg

>>63957282 (OP)
What are the prices for a good sword?

>>63958219
>>63958657
My guy, I'm not sure I'm following you here. The (arming) sword and the long sword overlap, but are two pretty different things in use, shape and context.
Your list also makes little sense.

>I.33
Deals specifically with arming sword and buckler. Sure, you can have this one. If you feel bored, we can talk about whether I.33 is more a buckler than sword manual.

>Fiore
Which one? This is not like I.33, we know of at least 4 treatises attributed to him.
MS Ludwig XV 13 deals with grappling and dagger.
Pisani Dossi MS deals with everything but arming swords, including mounted combat.
MS M.383 is mounted combat and a bunch of halfswording.
MS Latin 11269 is a rehash of earlier work but does include folios 10r to 12r that show something akin to arming swords. Not well versed in Fiore, but I suppose these folios should show up in some others I mentioned.
That's it for Fiore and arming swords.

>Ringeck
Not well versed in this guy.

>Mair
You misspelled Meyer. He also does not have anything on arming swords, since he's about 150 years too late. He does have transitional swords (cut and thrust / "rapier" ) though. Neither Veldenz nor Solms

Am I being retarded here? Do you have some hidden knowledge I don't?

>>63970490
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Paulus_Hector_Mair
Different from Joachim Meyer, unless you meant to imply that you knew of Mair but were excluding him.

Based autist got hanged because he kept embezzling funds for his special interests.

Talhoffer is a really good source because like Achille Marozzo he goes over a little bit of everything. Longsword? Check. Sword and board? Check. Giant ass spiked fucking shield? Check. Marital judicial duels where you are in a hole and you beat each other with clubs? Yes.

People DO train with sword & buckler but due to the lack of explicit information, a lot of what is learned is from later sources with the implicit understanding that it probably isnt that much different than earlier stuff. A lot of 18 and 19th century guys, the mercenaries and private instructors and whatnot cover a lot of sword and targe/buckler type things. Here is a plate from Valville, a French source showing a hanging sabre guard in conjunction with a protective item: https://hemamisfits.com/2015/08/02/treatise-on-the-counter-point-by-alexandre-valville-1817/#:~:text=Guard%20of%20the%20Scottish%20Highlander

Also desu, actual sword and shield is hard to sportify. Not sword and buckler, but actual strapped arm shield and XI/XII/XIII/XIV arming sword stuff. It is very easy to protect yourself and without a free hand for grappling it is mostly endurance or having a height advantage. It is a lot easier to replicate unarmored weapon sparring aka rapier or blossfechten where everyone is a glass cannon for scoring purposes, than to do something where IRL fighting was a lot less decisive. Harnessfechten with longswords or pole weapons is a lot more fun because you can make it first impact OR a takedown. Arming swords and kite or heater shields is just really boring and not fun and either you bonk them on the head because you are taller, or get a tiny glancing blow on their elbow, and you win, and it isnt very sporting to do.

>>63968355
I figure they have always had a historical importance. Guess a better way to ask the question would be if more people irl are taking up swordsmanship because of its prevalence in fiction. Did they all just end up doing HEMA?

is it even a sword if you can't cut a horses head off?

>>63964553
Robin just feels like he is a specific type of Autistic , I have no quarrel with him .Sellsword Arts is a pompous fag and I hate him .

>>63962394
That fattening up at the end is so ugly , it shows that Turks can not produce anything good , only defile what others have done .Like the Hagia Sophia .

>>63962394
Based. Me, I like these simple brutish fuckers.

>>63964553
I remember following Robin until I saw the faggot engaging in anti-gun bullshit on his social media. Haven't looked at anything from him ever since.

>>63957282 (OP)
I like those hefty cavalry swords from the late 16th and early 17th centuries.

>>63972678
greetings fellow Dishonored enjoyer

Lastly my favourite of the bunch. In english probably called a Mortuary Sword but let's not dwell too much on terminology.

>>63957282 (OP)
Bump

>>63957282 (OP)
anyone here do hema? if so, what's your weapon of choice? mine is the longsword, but i would like to get into military sabre and rapier sometime in the future.
is it worth it to pay for hema skirts/pants? would makeshift protection suffice for upper leg protection? are expensive mask overlays worth it?

>>63979366
Hemaist here. Military sabre is fun and crosses over into rapier if you do certain sources. Unless someone is in murder mode, longsword is the only one I'd recommend speccing out protection on. Mask overlays are dumb if you mean the super extra ones. If you mean you dont fence with back of head protection at all, get a basic bitch spes or whoever helmet with the fabric that at least covers the head. For sabre, forearms and thighs tend to be the cut landing zones. For rapier, thigh, upper arm, and around your neck/collarbone are the worst to get hit due to the lack of body fat. Any standard MOF plastron can protect the chest tons but the collarbone is still exposed.

Dont wear the skirts or pants they look dumb imo. If you really want extra thigh protection get some leather or pads and use D rings at the bottom of your jacket to hang them and then add straps.

>>63979366
> anyone here do hema?
Yes
>if so, what's your weapon of choice?
sword + buckler, mostly from I.33
> is it worth it to pay for hema skirts/pants?
No
> would makeshift protection suffice for upper leg protection?
Yes, and very well at that
> are expensive mask overlays worth it?
No
Hand protection is vital with arming swords, though. I've been whacked in the hand more times than I can remember. Two of those times resulted in pretty serious injuries.

>>63957282 (OP)

>>63965423
Kult of Athena has only been a good shopping experience for me. I bought a cold steel hand-and-a-half sword from them and it's still my favorite that I own.

>>63972678
>brutish
That's like the exact opposite of brutish

>>63958128
pools like a commercially make piece of shit, sorry. the blade symetry is very poor, the grind is visibly fucked up, and it's got a handle like a kitchen knife.

And I suspect it's also way too long, because as I understand it that hilt style is for side-swords, it's meant to be a handy little falshion

>>63957282 (OP)
Awwww shit, I've been waiting for one of these
>Fidestisan Claymore, 42inch with black bluing on blade
>blade is so fucking shiny black I can see my reflection in it
Shield is dope too

>>63983315
Is it any good? The website looks like some sort of Temu thing, but I know from /gq/ that Chinese stuff is getting better and better these days

>>63983340
Surprisingly, yes. I bought expecting it to be a cheap wall hanger, something I could fuck around and practice with. After I unboxed and assembled it, I realized it's actually a solid fuckin blade.

I ended up buying a cheap $50 united Cutlery sword to hang above my fireplace, the Fidestisan I keep by my bed

>>63983376
How's the balance and weight?

It would be amazing if some Chink company just comes along and casually BTFOs Albion.

>>63984008
Lk chen might be up there but they mostly do chinese stuff so there's not much overlap

>>63958473
>>63958504
>>63958530
So, you are agreeing witht them?

This is my sword.
I like it.
I chose it mainly on aesthetics but now that I have it, I will defend it being superior to all other swords with my life.

>>63984008
Why would you want chinksects to "btfo" based Wisconsinites? You some kind of queer?

>>63984532
Nigga you retarded?
> Cheaper
> Justasgood
> 100x faster production/shipping
> They actually make scabbards which they throw in for free
You're irredeemably cucked if you think that paying Albion $1000 for a plain CNC'd sword that takes 12 months to make and will never get a scabbard is okay.

>>63984553
Eat shit and die, zoomie.

>>63984580
Found the Albion employee.
How's the weather in Wisconsin?

>>63984553
It is OK and it's cheaper than an equivalent sword have been at any time in history.

I don't like giving chunks money and I'm not a slave to instant gratification so waiting for something isn't an issue. You're just seething, poor, and have no sense of loyalty or patriotism because you're a pure soulless consumer - and really what deeper form of cuckoldry could there be?

I do wish Albion would get a scabbard solution sorted out but I've already got my deposit in with DBK.

>>63984633
I'm not the one seething, and I'm not the one who consoooomed a $1000+ plain CNC'd sword with no scabbard ever.
> It's okay because it's relatively cheaper than a sword would have been in the 15th century!!
lmao, dude, it's a CNC'd bar of steel with a handle. Albions are decidedly mid, factory-made swords, not handmade museum replicas.
> But muh patriotism! Arghhh it's the chinks!
lmao, can't tell if you're memeing or serious.

>>63984694
I get it, you'll never have a sword unless the chinsects make you one that's dirt cheap and you can impulse buy online and have delivered within a week because your brain is clapped out on hyperstimming short form content and you have zero financial literacy.

Ahhhhh save me chinks!
> CNC'd bar of steel with a handle. Albions are decidedly mid, factory-made swords
Sure. So you must have something better, obviously?

>>63982453
The way they were used, quite so.

>>63967128
It's split down the center, it's a completely stupid sword design that looks like it was made of laminated steel that didn't weld at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eMKUalmVDg
There's this guy I watch sometimes on YT, from NL or something. All he does is make swords on commission. It's not gay like Forged in Fire where the hosts sit there and talk the whole time like they're on a TV series. It's all ASMR.

>>63972903
The Dussack was underappreciated

>>63980762
>crosses over into rapier

Having seen many sources where a weapon is called a Rapier but it is portrayed as a Sidesword for both cutting and thrusting , can the same be said of it ? .Especially since they have an interlocked development .

>>63985908
>Having seen many sources where a weapon is called a Rapier but it is portrayed as a Sidesword for both cutting and thrusting
It's a retarded meaningless distinction that nobody has ever codified, much like the overly specific and restrictive name "rapier" itself.

>>63958337
who the fuck was this for

>>63986045
Ikari Shinji

>>63986045
For crushing great evil. They say the man who used it had a 10 centimeter PP

>>63957282 (OP)
Wow thats gorgeous, what type of sword is that? also anyone care to share your thickest, widest, short messers and/or falchions? Im a sucker for those.

>>63983989
Weight is chunky, but the balance sits just above the hilt. Makes it easier to stab single handed, with shield in the off-hand.
Luckily, I'm a big boy lol

>>63957282 (OP)
I don't usually find swords ugly, but holy shit this one definitely is.

>>63970490
The Sword in One Hand chapter is in all four Fiore manuscripts, and everything there is applicable to arming sword regardless of the exact style of sword depicted in the illustrations. The only exception is the "step on his sword" play, which is a bit of a mystery to me. It doesn't even work with longswords and I think there may have been some artistic license involved given that the text talks about a bent or broken sword and not specifically stepping on it.

>>63957282 (OP)
I want a sword, european kind, but all I can find around are katanas and shit quality european stuff that would break on the first swing.

if I ever commit suicide by cops, walk around killing as many joggers as I can before getting gunned down.

>>63963655
Just checking in to see if that anon that irrationally hates Albion has started posting yet


>>63984553
>You're irredeemably cucked if you think that paying Albion $1000 for a plain CNC'd sword that takes 12 months to make and will never get a scabbard is okay.


yup, here they are. like clockwork.

So where does the modern idea of one handed swords being a sidearm like a modern day pistol come from?

>>63986530
search shops like "kult of athena", "therion arms" (assuming you're in the US) "knight shop" (in the UK), and filter by "battle ready"
its an almost meaningless phrase, but it will at least filter out most of the wall-hanger shit that would break if you look at them funny.

as a general rule, assume that anything under about $ / £ / € 200 is going to be utterly shit, from 200-300 is ok-ish. and over 300 will be at least durable enough not to fall apart with one swing.
from there upwards, its diminishing returns. a 500 (your currency here) sword will be a huge jump in quality compared to one costing 250, but a 1000 sword is not as big a jump in turn from the 500 one.

>>63986629
~Iron age swords are a lot of metal and work to do the same job of an ax or a spear.
Being more expensive, one might be hesitant to wield it primarily.
But say you aren't poor, say you're quite wealthy or someone of note. Good news, swords at times were fantastic symbols of status for you.
Or say you're a professional soldier for hire, you probably have a weapon designed for formation use, but you can be damn sure you've got a sword to show your profession and value.

Fundamentally its a matter of economics, other tools did the job for cheaper, less than one in one hundred warring people in all of history wielded swords in battle, let alone had them as a sidearm.

>>63957282 (OP)
I need an estoc. Perfect sidearm/Dueling weapon

>>63986658
> less than one in one hundred warring people in all of history wielded swords in battle, let alone had them as a sidearm.

I would be inclined to argue otherwise as that statement is a bit of a "noo-er-yeah-er, maybe?" reaction - firstly because its very difficult to try and lump all people in all time periods, in all geographies into one big pile...
after all, the number of swords in pre-columbian Americas is 0, but, what's the ratio for europe, in 100 AD, 1000AD, 1500, and so on - each is difference, and the sheer number of people fighting is different too. are there more people who were professional warriors in 3000bc to 0ad, than there were in 1000-1918AD, for example, if we say the end of WW1 is the cut-off point for abandonment of the cavalry saber, and swords after that date are mostly non-combat?

its easy to make sweeping statements, but I'm not convinced they provide great data for people to form a framework from.

like him or hate him, Matt Easton's damn catchphrase is right - "Context".

>>63986087
>>63986441
It's a replica of a famous sword at the armory in Dresden. 46" long, about 4 pounds.

>>63986680
How long is that example?

>>63986759
>Measurements and Specifications:
>Weight:2 pounds, 5 ounches
>Overall length:50 7/8 inches
>Blade length:42 inches
>Blade width:1 inch tapering to 5/16 inch
>Grip length:6 1/4 inches
>Guard width:12 3/8 inches
>Point of Balance:5 inches from guard
>Center of Percussion:~23 1/2 inches from guard

from the website i grabbed it from...can't wait get paid to buy this or a polehammer of some sort

>>63986775
I want to poke fun and call it a rapier without the hand protection or a longsword that can’t cut, but I can’t honestly say the minimalism doesn’t have its own appeal.

>>63986900
Lol fair. It's just an anti armor rapier which automatically makes is based. Also makes half-sword stance stonger which which is my personal favorite dueling stance

>>63986908
>It's just an anti armor rapier
Estocs were often used mounted which is also different.

It's a longsword with a rapier blade except even less cut oriented and more stiff and rigid.

>>63986045
>>63958316


It's a temple/shrine sword. Possibly also a parade sword like the Euro giant swords. A smith made it for them to display.

There is religious stuff behind it / the smith flexing his skills etc but yeah. No one used these to fight because it's literally impossible.

>>63986900
The one at the Cleveland Museum of art has a 125cm/49in blade. It also has this huge medial ridge, so the cross section of the blade is this T shape. It’s really cool.

Very underrated arms and armor collection

>>63983315
>Fidestisan
isn't that the company that makes Zombietool knock offs?

>>63985908
It really depends I guess. If you follow the analogy of the sword as a gun, the rapier was common from let's say 1550 to 1700, that is 150 years. Many different sources were written for many nationalities and purposes. 150 years ago from now is 1875. If you picked up a Mauser 1871 and got mad you couldn't do a Costa C-clamp, would you still call it a rifle?

All swords can do every kind of attack in theory. You can cut with a smallsword, you can thrust with a tulwar. What matters is effectiveness. Outside of the blade shape/length itself, the way you hold it/the grip is most important IMO. More forward weighted blades obviously cut better but so does a more hammer or handshake grip. Centering the weight with 2 fingers around the ricasso on a rapier like the spanish make it almost effortless to thrust if it has a good distal taper. (talking like 15mm down to 2-3mm)

What do you define as a rapier and what do you define as a rapier source? You can do everything you read in a Giganti or Capoferro manual with a late 18th century Neapolitan spanish style transitional rapier/side sword, you can even cut better. But you won't have the same length. There are no firm categories where 1 weapon literally excludes you from using it a certain way, the only thing that matters is how good it is at doing that specific thing.

Also military sabre sources are rarely, RARELY so focused on only swords with curved blades that they almost all work for straight blades. You may have to adjust your timings. But even sabre blades themselves largely straighten by the end of the 19th century without any fundamental change in sources.
>Picrel is a Neapolitan gardes du corps sword from the 3rd quarter 18th century I got for 700 ish from Czernys and is one of the nicest fucking things I have ever handled. I call it my 'dueling' sword only because I have a massive fuck off pre-1882 French cavalry pallasch I have already claimed as my 'war sabre.'

>>63986900
Just to be pedantic I will point out that relatively speaking, a complex hilt rapier would protect an unarmored civilian hand, while anyone wielding an estoc would likely have a gauntlet or sturdier protection. For my money, the 30 Years War era of buff leather gauntlets with steel plates on the back of the hand but allowing for finer control on a pappenheimer is probably the ultimate form of hand protection for anything less than fully armored judicial dueling where you're doing 2 handed swings.

>>63988732
Pappenheimers look really cool but it’s impossible to beat a cup hilt in terms of protection.

>>63988755
Looking cool is half the battle.

>>63986680
A GOOD STIFF TUCK, NOT VERY LONG

>>63973275
Good sword

>>63986658
>to do the same job of an ax or a spear.
A sword is a fundamentally better weapon than a spear or an axe.
Come at me spearfags.

>>63988816
you should know fine well that sharpe should have used used a bastards bastard sword...

>>63988755
As far as rapier vs rapier, absolutely (get a good knuckle bow still), but the cup is made from relatively thin gauge steel. One advantage of a complex bar assembly is the bars can be made from thicker steel which makes it a lot more durable against cuts. Or especially blunt force. Ye Olde Rifle butt smashing against a cup hilt is probably going to stand a good chance of buckling it outright. Perforations do let you increase the thickness without weight gain and can even improve rigidity if done right. But for a battlefield purpose a la the 30 years war when it was an all out hellscape of brutal fighting, I would trade a bit of less thrust protection for extra impact resistance.

Blacksmith friend of mine gave me picrel from their shed. I've de-rusted, sharpened, and coated it with coconut oil. Gonna carve out an oak handle and attach it later today.

>>63988821
spearchuckers

>>63986683
>after all, the number of swords in pre-columbian Americas is 0
Macahuitl

>>63989157
wtf was your friend doing?

>>63981193
Yeah they're great, cool store to check out with tons of nice stuff.

>>63958544
>>63958639
>>63958700

>thin blade for thrusting but with usable edges
>can maybe be held one handed like rapier
>can be held two handed like longsword

I'm fascinated at this type of sword, it's like the evolutionary bridge between longsword and rapier. Is there a replica of this type of sword I could get somewhere? Closest I could find in the LK Chen Saxony German Rapier, but that's ostensibly a one-handed sword.

I like falchions and messers a lot. Done a fair amount of practice with a kodachi and you really come to learn that a shorter sword is deceptively strong, literally. Bit of a simplification regarding the physics is that against a longer sword the shorter one is "all strong" and the longer one is almost "all weak". People are often in too much of a rush to make things "happen" or to die.

>>63989636
Is a club with obsidian shards embedded in it.

>>63986683
>>63989636
>>63990700
Mesoamerica anon here, I'd call the Macuahuitl a sword, at least within the context of Mesoamerican warfare.

Firstly, the Spanish often described them as swords (or "Macana", I'll get back to that), while Aztec sources called Spanish swords "metal macuauitl"

Secondly, as I said, within the context of Mesoamerican warfare, they seem to have occupied their own niche as a slashing weapon distinct from what are more obviously clubs, maces, axes, or things in between: Compare Macuahuitl on the top here to the Mixtec curved bladed/studded clubs, the "short glaives", "Cuahtli", the various simple clubs, ball headed and torus headed maces, "bladeless" Macuahuitl, the spiked clubs/axes/"war picks", etc

That said, given all of those weapon types, there does seem to have been kinda a spectrum of kinda-blunt, kinda-bladed/spiked weapons, and you could argue the Macuahuitl is just at the bladed/swordlike extreme end of that spectrum. I mentioned "Macana" earlier, and this was a term the Spanish picked up in the West Indies and basically applied to a variety of Indigenous club, bladed club, mace, etc weapons

We don't know how the Mesoamericans classified their own weapons much, the divisions in pic related are basically just what I and my friends think make the most sense to divide them as (and even then, we have some disagreement, it's not done yet, and "the most sense" here is also based on what makes the most sense to explain and visually sort them for the purposes of the infograph alongside what seem like the most obviously distinct types), but if nothing else I think calling the Macuahuitl a club is reductive at best because there are other weapons that are way, way more clearly clublike then it in Mesoamerican warfare

Lastly, it is worth noting that what is maybe the last surviving Macuahuitl, the San Marcos Street Specimen, is pretty thin, enough for me to question it's viability as a blunt weapon, but we don't know how typical it is

>>63990950
>the last surviving Macuahuitl, the San Marcos Street Specimen


got a link for that? I thought the last one was the one in madrid that got destroyed in a fire.

>>63990977
Here's a presentation all about it, but it's in Spanish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j59VwkrYxaA

Beyond this one and the Madrid armory specimen you mentioned, there might be a third one in the INAH archives somewhere that was allegedly dug up at some point but was lost, and I THINK it's different from the San Marcos one, but I'm not sure

There's also a all wood (as in, even the blades) mock one that was excavated... technically two, but the second one seems more like a Tepoztopilli to me.

Is anybody today making single edged rapiers? It seems like a no brainer to me, it should have a better profile for cutting than a double-edged equivalent and a fully sharpened false edge isn't really usable with a knucklebow anyway.

>>63991291
And on that note, what do you call something with a blade like a messer or a falchion, with hand protection like a rapier or a sidesword? Something more cutting oriented but with the point still in-line with the grip and a guard designed to be fingered?
I can't find a name for that missing link between the langes messer and the basket-hilted backsword.
I've only got this one picture but searching for backswords doesn't turn up anything else like it and it's not really what I'm looking for anyway.

>>63991343
Dussack?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dusack

>>63992088
Kinda. I'm looking for something a little more like this schiavona but shorter and broader.

>>63990661
I really don't know if anybody makes replicas of swords like that. I've seen some replicas of swords similar to this one:>>63991343
which are the same idea, complex hilted "hand and a half" or "bastard" swords that seem to fill the niche between rapiers and longswords. I think they're probably either hard to make properly or there's not enough market for them, since you see tons of reproductions of straight up rapiers and simpler-hilted longswords. They're probably my favorite type of sword aestheticall, I was the one who posted the first one and also said the thing about the 16th century. If you do searches of "16 century complex hilt" and stuff like that you'll find more examples. myarmoury.com has a big archived thread called "examples of later bastard swords" or something along those lines which has lots of nice pictures.

>>63991343
Swiss Sabre.

>>63989896
Cleaning out his shed

>>63992935
These are very cool because they’re two handed and have complex hilts. It’s not too often that you see that

>>63992935
Still not quite what I'm looking for because it's two-handed.
It's like every possible permutation of sword exists except for a short, broad, straight-line, single-edged, single-handed sword with a complex guard that's not so enclosing that it restricts wrist movement and the kinds of grip you can use (the way baskets do).
Bear with me while I get reductive here:
An estoc with a complex guard is called a rapier.
An arming sword with a complex guard is called a side sword.
So what is a falchion with a complex guard called? I've seen schiavonas with very broad double-edged blades and I've seen many different swords with narrow single-edged blades, but that specific combination of broad and single-edged never seems to have been combined with the kind of hilts we see on rapiers and side swords. It's a mystery.

>>63993075
The bastard sword posted earlier is brilliant. I love longswords with extra hand protection too. I'm not sure rapier and dagger can be beaten in a duel but for any other scenario, being able to free up a hand without having to drop or re-sheath anything gives you less to worry about, lets you think faster.

>>63993183
>An estoc with a complex guard is called a rapier.
No.
>An arming sword with a complex guard is called a side sword.
Yes.
>So what is a falchion with a complex guard called?
Depends on the time & place. I've always been fond of the Italian storta because I like metal handles. Pic somewhat related.

>>63993234
>Storta
That's the search term I needed, thank you. Picrel is exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for, it's beautiful.

>>63993316
Happy to help. My pic was supposed to be another angle of >>63958180 or at least a very similar sword, I have another angle of it but for the life of me I can't find the damn pic.

GILS
God
I
Love
Swords

>>63993234
Wait, how the fuck did they just describe a falchion without the Elmslie Typology? WTF is their problem?

>>63986629
Europeans, one would imagine

>>63993316
That blade width..hnnggg, I can only become so excited, please.

>>63986629
From the same sorts of tards who will insist leather armor never existed. Swords were used extensively, unlike modern sidearms, even when other weapons were the "primary" weapon. Greek sources state the phase of hoplite combat that lasted the longest was after spears broke, and swords were drawn.

>>63990950
>>63986683
>>63989636
>>63990700
>>63990977
>I mentioned "Macana" earlier, and this was a term the Spanish picked up in the West Indies and basically applied to a variety of Indigenous club, bladed club, mace, etc weapons

To be clear, by "applied", I mean by the Spanish, it wasn't a term the Mesoamericans themselves used, I'm just saying it's plausible that a lot of the things given distinct sections in the chart may not have been viewed as entirely distinct and the Spanish taking that Caribbean word and applying it to all those things may ironically be a useful way to look at the typology

But we really don't know.

>>63993669
You can get an idea of how common a weapon was in the 16th and 17th centuries by observing the antique market. Swords were extremely common and must have been used extensively. They're second only to halberds and lance heads, which were so common that you can sometimes pick up an antique for less than $300.

>>63986658
>one might be hesitant to wield it
I suspect there's not much you do unhesitatingly.

Mall ninja hours.

>>63996775
...any idea of the quality of this company? I'm debating getting a smachet from them.

>>63957282 (OP)
Elmslie is way better than Oakeshitt. Also, spears are always superior to swords unless the opposing lines of men are lined up across from one another along a hallway. Swords are basically back up guns, the Kel-Tec P32 of the battlefield. They were used in ceremonies because using a spear would have been dangerous. Swords weren't considered dangerous compared with swords. And all the sword books and sword schools from back then that everyone obsesses over now? European wuxia. It's basically dancing. I know you've seen a bunch of historically inaccurate movies with swords in them and now believe that all these fictitious modern portrayals of swords are what history was like, but men who carried swords were like 19th century officers who only carried pistols - it was to inspire confidence in their troops by entering battle with only a symbolic arm, basically unarmed.

>>63996796
Quality is good, but everyone agrees they're way too heavy and overbuilt. They're hard to wield, they're not nimble, they don't cut well because they're thick, they're not balanced. Goes for all their products. Like trying to use an old, heavy duty large cleaver like an agricultural machete.

>>63996796
What the other guy said + sometimes rarely they fuck up the tempering and you get a sword that's plastic where it should be elastic.
But there's nothing else quite like them. They're stylish fantasy swords where the fantasy is swords being practical in the 21st century.

new here, what's with the ban against elmslie typology?

>>63996893
lmaooo
Based schizopost.
Elmslie is also basically schizo, and there are literally no surviving examples of half of those swords. 1d lmao. 3e. 2 is questionable. It's dogshit.

>>63996964
Trying to head off Elmslie's own annoying, smarmy shit-tier posting and self-promotion, which is better suited for Reddit and ruins comfy threads.

>>63962335
>>63996982
You keep saying things without any substance.

>>63996908
>>63996918
Damn, the weight and the fact that it's from China kind of kills it for me. Already got too many from there and I need to be more selective. At least this means I can save what I would have spent for it on something else.

>>63997339
that would be /k/ in a nutshell.

>>63996979
>Elmslie is also basically schizo, and there are literally no surviving examples of half of those swords. 1d lmao. 3e. 2 is questionable

Which is exactly what they were also saying about Type 1c. "hurr its made up dogshit"
Until a type 1c was found. Pic related.

>>63998387
and then you have the 3e's with double clip-points:

>>63998388
and then you have the type 2's. which there's (at least) 2 examples, plus surviving fragments of scabbards from Dordrecht.

>>63998389
>>63998388
>>63998387
>>63997339

There you go, photographs of 3 objects which /k/'s Temu brand experts insist there are "literally no surviving examples" of.

The 1d, there are no known examples in archaeology (just as there were no known 1c's in archaeology till that one was found in 2021-22). This is something that is acknowledged repeatedly. It is however, depicted in art in multiple sources from multiple different countries.

Make your own mind up as to if its made-up, or sufficiently documented to be a plausible lost type.

>>63998387
lmaoooo
Wow, Elmslie, you found one rotted out example! That's it, it's a "type" for your "typology"!
This is of course utterly retarded.

>>63998427
You have no 1d. You have no 1c apart from a very questionable bar of rust. You have two examples of 2, but one of them isn't very good. How many 3s have you got?
This reddit-tier typology is brilliant. Shit that doesn't exist and other stuff that was found only once or twice and extrapolated into an entire class.

>>63984613
Hot. How is the electrical grid reliability in your shithole?

>>63998456
ITT: Niggers cannot comprehend future-proofing.

>>63998446
yes. Rusty metal is what you have when things have been in the ground for 700 years.
Newsflash at 9: Water is discovered to be wet.

but, go on, keep on seething about "reddit",

>>63996893
Uh.. theres one which ppl called the "batwing" cleaver or falchion.

>>63998492
you know fine well where to go digging to find that one:

>>63998478
lmao at "future proofing" a typology in a completely speculative way. That's not how it works.
You should at least flag them as "these things ARE NOT PROVEN TO EXIST, but I (Elmslie) believe that they might exist!" lol

>>63998884
>That's not how it works.

so how does "it" work? Other than yourself, is there a typology police department who dictate how a study of a series of objects may present items, who break down doors with a flashbang to zip-tie offending historians who might not meet your personal demands and send them to the classification gulag?
Or is it just you impotently raging about "wah, I don't like redditors, so its all shit" and having tantrums that dictate what "works" or not?
That said, you do seem to have been looking an awful lot at reddit yourself to know what's going on there...

Do you know what the primary source material for the typology is? Is it the manuscript images, or is it the archaeology? Or is it something else? Since you claim to know so much about it, what is your source to support that claim?

What is the minimum threshold of primary source material in this, and other typologies? do the Typology police have an edict from the Supreme Typology Court on what "works" there?

Is Oakeshott also "shit that doesn't exist" in the pommel- types, like Type O, P and Q where the only examples Oakeshott knows of are in statues, or manuscript art? Or what about Oakeshott's Type U pommel, which is listed only from one single example, and a collection of images in art and sculpture? Is that also just "rusty shit"?

Are they speculative too?

And how do you know that the Type 1d falchions are not listed with the exact same clarifications of their absence in archaeology that you complain about?

I think it's pretty clear that Emslie offers the superior typology. As new discoveries are made Oakeshitt remains stagnant while Emslie is further validated. Oakeshitt fanboys are just the medievalist version of boomers who still think the 1911 is the best carry gun because like those boomers they're opinions were formed and fossilized in a deficit of evidence and they're incapable of learning.

>>63999494
It really isn't superior at all.
Its designed specifically to dovetail into Oakeshott, so they're the two sides of the same system, and compliment each other, particularly as falchions are European swords, and therefore share all the same elements of hilt design as those in Oakeshott's typology.

now, that's not to say Oakeshott has drawbacks - it was the product of its time and the cold war limited access to a huge range of weapons in Poland, Czech Republic, Romania etc - and it does need updating in turn. Marko Aleksic has done a start on that but really it needs reworking from the ground up

there's a few people talking about that need to replace Oakeshott, a better, more integrated system which reflects the progress of 30+ years of finds, the fall of the Iron curtain opening up new data, and critically, the digitisation of collections around the world.

Personally, I think Ada Bruhn Hoffmeyer got it right - "families". Oakeshott touched on them. but grossly under-utilised them. I think that's more accurate as a representation of the medieval arms than typologies of parts.

>>63999932
Holy shit you really are autistic. He was joking.

>>63999932
>Oakeshott touched on them. but grossly under-utilised them.
Dude Oakeshott would laugh his ass off at a "typology" where half of the categories either don't exist or exist in just 1-2 examples.

>>63999978
"holy shit", you dont think I couldn't work that out before I typed a single word?

>>63999992
See the previous comment on the Type O, P, Q and U pommels that you conveniently developed amnesia about.

>>63999992
>or exist in just 1-2 examples.
What I find more confusing is that supposed "experts" look at rusty crap in the ground and think:
>wow, I discovered a brand new sword nobody has ever described before
rather than
>this is just a Type 1 with the thinnest part of the blade rusted away

>>64000031
> "holy shit", you dont think I couldn't work that out before I typed a single word?
And yet you posted an absurd wall of text which harshly criticized a man who is literally 10000x the historian you'll ever be.
"Elmslie typology" lmao

>>64000047
Yeah, here's the only surviving "1c." Just imagine using this shit for a "typology." It causes more problems and more confusion than it solves.

>>64000066
I'm just honestly shocked that a supposed expert on swords seems to be clueless as to how they were made or how corrosion affects metal. 1d and 2 are simply 1a/b with part of the blade broken or corroded into nothing and the thick spine portion having survived. There's as much bullshit here as there is with Victorian paleontology.

>>64000050
if you think "Oakeshott's work was a product of its time, limited by access to half of Europe because of the cold war" is "harshly" criticising it, then you must be the thinnest-skinned cry-baby on the planet.

>>64000115
>I'm just honestly shocked that a supposed expert on swords seems to be clueless as to how they were made or how corrosion affects metal.

Oh, thankyou, I needed that laugh. Are you a professional comedian?

Go on, tell me what you imagine you think you know about it, based of one small photo of it in the hand?

>>64000191
>Are you a professional comedian?
No, a materials scientist.

>Go on, tell me what you imagine you think you know about it,
I know a single damaged example isn't anywhere near enough evidence to draw a meaningful conclusion from. If there were dozens of these things in better condition then we might be able to say something confident.

How are you all so retarded and autistic?

It’s a sharpened metal stick, why the fuck do you have to invent these “”””typologies””””??? What purpose does it serve??? What historical, practical, or even semantic benefit is there to this spergery?????

>>64000226
>why the fuck do you have to invent these “”””typologies””””???
categorizing mostly, though I do think elmslie's "typology" is limited in scope and can barely be considered a proper typology however that is my opinion.

>>63957282 (OP)
Too much of a poorfag to afford the Albion one of these but the Ronin is goodnuff

>>64000226
Besides clarity and recognition of differences , it is fun .You bitch and moan about people using proper categories because you were born from your mother's asshole and are coping by retardedly sperging over how which hole you came from is not important .

>>64000066

Would make a good basedjak.

>>64002091
>You bitch and moan about people using proper categories
You mean inventing arbitrary categories based on nothing because you have autism?

Spergs never should have been allowed on the internet.

>>64003515
You mean being unable to notice differences between things that are often hundreds or even thousands of years apart because you are an ignorant fuck?

Dumb hicks should never have been allowed on the internet.

I bet you're one of the idiots in plane threads who says shit like entirely new aircraft are "X in a bodykit"

>>63958128
>>63958709
>>63986087
>>63993183
Why is it that so many Messers have an eastern aesthetic to them? There's something about the huge curved blade that feels so un-European. I know Seaxes and Falchions also have that going for them and that there are just as many straight swords in the Islamic world but.. idk I can't put my finger on it I'm just curious if I'm imagining it

>>64003533
>time, place, shape, purpose, and historically used terms aren’t good enough
>I NEED to invent an arbitrary “””””””typology”””””” based on ????, then shit up every fucking thread trying to shove it down everyone’s throats
I hope they find a cure soon.

>>63959114
>Muh writing style
Your writing style isn't unique anon, you're just retarded

>>64003723
>>time, place, shape, purpose, and historically used terms aren’t good enough

does everyone know what the differences between a baquemarde, a storta, a fawchon, a falchoun, and a malchus, are? or the difference between a tesak, a tasak, a dussac, a messer, a langes messer, a grossesmesser, a kriegsmesser, a kordy, a mes, a sax, a rugger, a bauernwehr, a hauswehr, a wehr, a waid, a waidpraxe, and a parasztkés are?
do you know what a Cinquedea was actually called in-period?

in particular, how do you know the difference between a sax, and a sax, for example, where the same names were used for different items hundreds of years apart?

Does everyone know the difference between a sword from 1150, and 1250?
Can everyone know the purpose behind a Jagdmesser, a stiff, thrusting blade, and a tuck, with a stiff thrusting blade? they're not the same purpose.
Does everyone have the ability to tell the difference between a longsword from 1450, from north Germany, and one from south Germany? or tell that from one from north Italy?

Now, lets look at that medieval sword, its diamond section, tapering, ogive tip, with a broad base, and a two-handed grip.
as opposed to this medieval sword, diamond section, tapering, less ogive tip, with a broad base, and a two-handed grip.

Or, for the two in my head as I described those, I could say "Type XVIIIc" and "Type XVa" and people know what I'm referring to.

That's why typologies are used. because no, you do not know the difference of language, or of place, or of date, or of purpose sufficiently to allow accurate definition. and people in general certainly dont.

that's the sort of stupid shit that leads to everything being called a "Broadsword", be it from the Norman age, or the English civil war.

>>64003831
This thread explicitly discourages your participation. Please remove yourself immediately.

>>64003851
>loses argument
>cries about his safe space not being safe for retarded nigger faggots

>>64000209
>I know a single damaged example isn't anywhere near enough evidence to draw a meaningful conclusion from.
It is when there are period depictions of literally the same thing. We don't have any surviving examples of faussarts at all yet we know and theorize about their origins all the same.

>>64003851
>I dont like the answer, so I need a safe space from my imaginary bogeymen!

>>64003536
Curved swords originated in the east, not really islamic world but rather the steppe nomads of the central asia.They spread west through both Eastern Europe and islamic world who also used straight swords initially. They weren't that common in Western Europe outside of a fairly short period of oriental fashion in the late 18th to early 19th century. Outside of that even if swords were curved it was so little the difference was superficial and they didn't really differ from straight swords in any practical way.

The hilt is probably another thing that looks eastern even though it isn't, instead of the straight crossguard you have the irregular angles and curves similar to later eastern swords that would borrow this style of hilt from Europe. Falchions with their typical arming sword hilts largely avoid this imo and don't look eastern at all, ditto for the straight and square messers. The only straight messers that look non-European in my opinion are the super broad bladed ones but they don't look very eastern either.

Seaxes were pretty much always straight but falx was forward curved.

>>64003891
>>64003901
>calling something a “longsword” or a “broadsword” is equivalent to making an entire autistic “”””””typology”””””” and shitting up the entire fucking internet with it
Half of the shit you posted in your sperg rage shitfit is wrong in the first place. Do you think because the spelling is changed, the object is somehow different? You’re telling me with a straight face that a fawchon is different from a falchoun? It’s the same fucking thing, retard. It’s the same shit with all the other shit you regurgitated. The spelling of words was not at all standardized in the past. A cinquedea was called… a cinquedea.

Inventing this ahistorical, arbitrary, dogshit “typology” is completely retarded. The fact that your autism addled brain can’t cope with the fact that real life is messy and does not easily fit into rigid, discrete categories is YOUR problem.

Stop polluting every fucking thread with your slop. Log the fuck off, Elmslie.

>>64003968
>Waaah, stop categorizing things!
No. Type XIIIa goes brrrr.

>>64003968
>your sperg rage shitfit

there's only one person having a "rage shitfit". They're the one lashing out repeatedly in impotent rage, demanding that people dont post and demanding a safe space where they're "not welcome", name-calling, trying to belittle work while having never read it, and constantly sticking words in quotation marks in a juvenile attempt to try and invalidate it.

you've posted more petulant rants to try and attack someone you've never met than you have actual discussion about swords.

that's pretty fucking sad, you know.

>>64004127
Shitting up the thread with your autistic headcannon does not constitute sword content. You have done nothing but hijack thread after thread to talk about your special interest. Go back to r*ddit.

This has become the worst sword thread I can remember.

>>64004395
>ree you hijack a sword thread to talk about swords
assburgers on full display

>>64007266
Elmslie is literally the worst poster of all time.
Infinite lols at his headcanon "future-proofed" "typology".
The thread explicitly says that he's not welcome, but he shits it up anyway. Unbelievable.
>>64003362
Could there possibly be a more soicuck t-shirt?

>>64007501
what's unbelievable is you, shrieking on and on and on and on and on about them, from the very first post of the thread, rent-free in your head.

>>64007549
Dude it's a bunch of different people. I haven't posted at all since Friday

>>63992277
http://myarmoury.com/review_mrl_estoc.html
then you get a cutler to add a cup above the crossguard and bob's your uncle

>>63957282 (OP)
What would a modern sword look like?

>>63996893
longsword as a main battle weapon was very much a thing in Europe from the 11th to the 15th century or thereabouts
you are so full of shit it's pouring out your mouth

>>64008168

>>64008168
Not much different to the last sabres militaries were using. The materials would be updated, leather and wood replaced with synthetic alternatives (kydex, nylon, g10, etc), metal parts given anti-corrosion coatings that reduce maintenance and reduce shininess (including the edge).

>>64008380
I beg to differ. In view of the proliferation of body armor, a purely cutting sword like the sabre is not at all practical
I'd go for an estoc, personally

>>64008380
I wonder if you could replace fullers with hollow drilling for more rigid blades.

>>64008911
It's technically possible, just a hell of a diminishing return.

>>64008937
Drilling a hole shouldn't be too hard.

>>64008589
Modern body armor is less protective than the breast plates worn by cuirassiers in the 19th century. Way less coverage. Your shoulders and flanks are completely exposed.

>>64007634
You've been screeching the same things the same exact way while crying like an absolute bitch that nobody respects your safe space this entire time.

Try to act like you have at least a single testicle for once, Elsmslie-tard.

>>64009212
modern body armour is very similar to wisby style coats of plate, from the 13th and early 14th C, in terms of its biomechanics and ergonomics.

It always makes me think, the technological leap forward for steel making in the 14-15th C enabled plate, will there be a similar tech leap that enables a similar biomechanical design process for modern body armour in the next few centuries.

>>63996796
I have the jian and the knuckle duster Bowie and I'm happy with both. If you like the smatchet then it's probably a reasonably safe bet, especially since they're relatively rare these days. Condor made the best budget barong but it's been gone for years. CS made a pretty good budget smatchet but it's been gone for years and their new barong machetes, while decent, aren't quite what the old Chinese ones were. The only knife I'd ever consider purchasing from Blackjack is their barong and the last one I ever saw was bought out from under me as I was filling in my credit card info. I suppose you could check out TOPS' offering, if it's anything like the rest of their lineup it'll be overpriced but you won't regret buying it.

For me, it's the estoc. I'd like to own a nice one someday.

>>64011158
la creatura

>>64011734
that's a horse, nigger