Thread 63964550

>Encircled enemy city
>Destroyed their heavy equipment
>Need to take over a city
>Dont want to shell it for months to end up like with grozny
>want to take it relatively quickly
How do you go about that if the enemy has entrenched and has ATGMs and Manpads and all that?

Root them out, I guess. If you're insistent on not shelling and you don't have time for starving them out, then street by street it is.

>>63964550 (OP)
>Encircled enemy city
not totally, soviets were supplied from across the volga

>Destroyed their heavy equipment
not all of it, soviets were supported by heavy artillery from across the river
and they committed most of their tanks outside the city to rapidly counter-encircle the germans after they pushed into the city

>Dont want to shell it for months to end up like with grozny
germans ended up shelling it heavily anyways
not that months of shelling it would have worked, because the soviets proved capable of turning even blasted, gutted rubble into defensible fortresses

>How do you go about that if the enemy has entrenched and has ATGMs and Manpads and all that?
city fighting is always dominated by infantry and always favors the defenders
there is no way to get through it other than to push through it with more men than the defenders or to avoid it entirely and attack the roads leading into it

I think you're either stuck with:

1. Rush mechanized elements and don't care about the losses due to AT, gets your troops in to entrench themselves in the city.

2. Rush infantry meatwaves with mechanized elements providing supporting fire from your rear and try to get in to entrench in the city. Again, have to not worry about the casualties.

But after that? You're pretty much stuck with inf going house-to-house to fuck shit up. Sprinkle in drone attacks on entrenched positions in the area's your attacking.

>>63964550 (OP)
Chemical warfare.

>>63964567
I just need an image of urban defending,
The case of staligrad is another one

>>63964550 (OP)
Go around then set up posts around the city and move on.
The city itself doesn't matter. The people trapped themselves you just keep them trapped while destroying everything around them. Then you leave a ruined wasteland and if they are still alive they starve to death. That's fatal terrain. Don't engage

Germs were a bunch of pussies Evernote back then that they couldn’t even dare to drown the whole city in tabun, which the us army e6 assault mask might not provide any effective protection against, not to mention percutaneous poisoning. And the red army went into battles with absolutely zero protection against any form of chemical attacks

Test

>>63964648
>use chemical weapons on the Soviets
>their Western allies retaliate against you with their own

WWII was proto-MAD

>inb4 the Holocaust

Accounts of the Holocaust were treated with skepticism until the end of the war, and the Allies didn't want to risk starting a chemical war on mere rumor.

>>63964550 (OP)
Drones mog all

>>63964655
If you think you're banned why can't you make an actual on topic post? It isn't hard to think of something to say. Also mods ban people for ban evading if they post 'test' now so enjoy lol.

>>63964690
Possibly, but with the likes of v1 of v2, both of which can reach up to 350-400 km, and iirc there are sketches of chemical warheads version for both, would Churchill risk mass civilian casualties for the soviet ?
And with the cep of 10km (later germs managed to get down to 5km, possibly less), you don’t even need modern pinpoint accuracy, especially with nerve gases anyway.
And the older gases like phosgene or mustard were pretty nasty, but they are nowhere near as lethal as the nerve agents, so that would be a huge gamble that’s unlikely to have any significant on an chemical eastern front, even with allied total air dominance

>>63964550 (OP)
Space Marines, Leningrad or Fallujah

>>63964550 (OP)
Dismount infantry
Open top shitboxes with many shielded pintle mount automatic and recoilless rifle. Ideally can turn in place.
Vehicle with enclosed turret with recoilless rifle, autocannon and mg etc.
Vehicle with large spigot mortar that launch charges more than 155mm artillery shell.

>>63964753
>would Churchill risk mass civilian casualties for the soviet ?
Yes. He was a narcissistic blowhard retard of a politician.
They tossed him out of office after the war for a reason.

>>63964550 (OP)
Depends a lot on enemies morale. If they really fucking hate you then leave a small retreading bath to bomb the shit out of them and basicly force enemy general to pussy out and order a general retreat.
Highway of death was prime example of this. I cant imagine how many coalition troops would have died clearing the pocket instead of shooting them in the back. End war germans used the same tactic to avoid soviets last manning their defensive positions. Same thing happened on a bigger scale in stalingrad but Paulus fucked it up.

>>63964990
except that's where you were wrong
Churchill wanted total escalation to chemical warfare because of v2 strikes, and his staffs talked him out of it.
And now you honestly think the moment reports about soviet dying en masse in mere minutes started hitting the war office, his words wouldn't have fallen on deaf ears ?
Nerve agents are order of magnitude more effective than anything either brits or the us had, even the few nukes that only available in 45 weren't the same city busting we have today (japanese wooden and paper cities doesn't count)

>>63964550 (OP)
Chemical weapons.

>>63964550 (OP)
>Need to take over a city
>Dont want to shell it for months to end up like with grozny
>want to take it relatively quickly
nuke it repeatedly until there is nothing left.

if you want the buildings at least somewhat intact, use neutron bombs to wipe out all life.

there is really no other way to take a properly defended city quickly.

>>63965352
if they've got CBRN equipment it won't work.

>>63964700
>Also mods ban people for ban evading if they post 'test' now so enjoy lol.

Based, that shit always annoyed me.

>>63964643
>set up posts around the city and move on.
And when the enemy forces sally out, overwhelming your outposts and leaving your main army cut off, then what?

>>63964643
Roads and rail tend to run through the middle of cities.

>>63965367
CBRN equipment is rated from like 5 minutes to half an hour of exposure.
The second someone has to take a piss they're fucked lmao

>>63965921
what the fuck are you gonna do drown the city in liquid sarin?

>>63966052
No, I will do something far, FAR worse

>>63964700
>Also mods ban people for ban evading if they post 'test' now so enjoy lol.
>>63965377
Why the fuck can't people, even trolls, raifers and shills, just visit the b& page and check?
Being b& on 4chan isn't a mark of shame.

>User was b& for this post.

>>63964990
>He was a narcissistic blowhard retard of a politician.
That's not fair.
He was generally pretty smart and only retarded on specific topics.

>>63965361
>there is really no other way to take a properly defended city quickly
I'm not saying that it doesn't have its risks but dumping a cholera victim's body upstream in the water supply and blocking the exits might shake things up.

>>63965516
>And when the enemy forces sally out, overwhelming your outposts and leaving your main army cut off, then what?
You leave a blocking element and QRF to slow them down and come back with your main army and engage in maneuver warfare like God intended, solving OPs problem.

If all you want is the city then you can just let them leave and play swapsies and entrench and defend the formerly enemy positions.

>>63964690
still treated with skepticism

>>63966194
Not by anybody that matters

Distribute as many SMGs as possible to infantrymen, double their grenade load out and integrate assault pioneer/engineers at the platoon level equipped with flamethrowers and demolition charges.

>>63966129
>>63966096
A peaceful death.

>>63964550 (OP)
Nuke it from orbit.

>>63964550 (OP)
Nuke it. Wait two weeks and go in to kill any survivors.

>>63964589
Storming a city that is on the defensive is always a bad idea.

>>63966158
Depends on the enemy. A city wide cholera outbreak would probably improve things for jeets or ziggers.

>>63964550 (OP)
Gas the city

>>63964550 (OP)
>How do you go about that if the enemy has entrenched and has ATGMs and Manpads and all that?
Thermobaric bombs and then just bulldozing everything that remains until it's a parking lot with nowhere for insurgents to hide. Send buses to evacuate the civilians first if you actually want to make an attempt at paying lip service to IHL.

If you're not intending to actually use the infrastructure for yourself afterwards, everything aside from the above is just feel-good bullshit that will cause needless loss of life for your own soldiers.

>>63966168
The enemy can now use small sally forces to control your army's movement. If they have two cities they can divide your army or ping pong it back and forth until it collapses.