Heat edition. Discuss optics, rifles, cartridges, shooting tips, etc.
>previous thread
>>63691501

Really thought I was an incompetent shooter but it turns out that my BCM pencil barrel was the problem all along

Taper barrels are GTG for precision however

>>63965318
what am i looking at? these are the same barrels

Excited to try out my xxxtra thiccc bipod this weekend

>>63966345
its not thicc its big boned
have some respect

is there like a pastebin for this thread for someone who's just starting out?

Would it be stupid to /prg/ with a ruger m77?

>>63966383
There's an older intro guide that we can't seem to agree on updating.

Updates
>>63698801
>>63698828
>>63698836

>>63966482
Reasonably authoritative competitive-level gear list: bottom of the page on precisionrifleseries.com
>What our shooters use

>>63966345
The ultra high cost and weight bipods confuse me a little. Even the 15lbs bench rifles support well off of a harris or the like

>>63964996 (OP)
Good man OP.

>>63966482
A mixture of lack of agreement and laziness/busy time of year in terms of work (and hopefully shooting).

>>63966339
Barrel 02 has a fucked up crown so it's grouping worse than Barrel 01 which is similar in every other way

BCM fucked me out of all the money I spent on 75gr-77gr match ammo trying to group when the hardware itself was faulty

Thinking of getting a Tikka T3X in 300WM to start out with, can change chassis later If I want, and I start out with a pretty light rifle with a brake and better than average shooting for an off the shelf rifle, I could ruck innawoods if I wanted to with a weight like that. Have 5-25x optic already. Opinions?

>>63967229
take it to your smith and have it recrowned. it's worth a shot, doesn't cost much. much less than a new barrel in any case.

I want to get into precision shooting and hunting, as I have never done either. So, Bergara HMR because obviously.

Question - what glass to put on it? You obviously want significant zoom so you can push out far but for a hunting role you want a low minimum magnification (3x) and, also, the HMR is heavy so you want to cut weight.

What are some options that anons would recommend?

>>63966904
The main thing stopping me is that the thread is much better at answering questions than a tldr guide can be. Which makes me doubt the value of maintaining a guide just for the sake of it.

>>63967550
He's jewed me over in the past. I'll just have it RMA'd by the manufacturer. Surprisingly, it's still good out to 500 with fake M193

>>63967524
>300WM
i was thinking about starting out w/ 300WM as well. problem is the longest range here is 1000yds, but shooting 1000yds has become easy these days. you can do it with a cheap deer rifle in 6.5creed and a 400$ scope

>>63964996 (OP)
Are you the anon that had that arrive the other day?

>>63967524
>>63967966
I have a 300wm I'm using a bunch and it's fun as always, somewhat bigger boom and can go further if you handload and have it customized to support out of spec longer coal (or you could just go straight to 300prc and get that out of the box).

But I dunno if I'd suggest it to "start out with". For a bigger boom cartridge it's certainly relatively affordable, there is a stupendous price jump in everything to go from even beefy 30cal to 33. But at the same time it's way more expensive then 6.5cm in all respects, not just ammo but the barrel life for PRS usage is going to be maybe 2000-2600 rounds depending on your firing schedule, vs a solid 4000ish for 6.5. And if you aren't handloading doesn't really perform much if any better due to the worse BCs. My 300wm gun is also fairly heavy (a good half lb heavier then even a Super Varmint T3x) so felt recoil is similar, but you're talking about going with lighter version T3X (and I think your 100% right to do so, a lighter gun is definitely nice to go innawoods with, which itself is super fun vs range all the time) that's going to be a lot sharper. And of course 300wm ammo just weighs more, again for rucking that'll mean less ammo overall or less other stuff for a given load.

If you've shot a ton of 300wm already and know all that, have lots of good land and the room/desire to stretch its legs, then by all means. That's a solid rifle, and 5-25 is a solid mag range so no need for anything else on the optic side either. Just get a decent bipod that matches the terrain you expect to finish off the package. But if you're not sure I guess I'd suggest giving an extra think about whether 300wm's the right choice vs a lighter modern cartridge. I'm actually planning to go lighter not heavier for my next rifle.

>>63968468
Also just to add:
>can change chassis later if I want
holy shit yeah are there tons and tons of amazing chassis that suppport tikka actions. From ultra light beauties with a lot of qol like the XLR 4 magnesium to super niche oddballs. Has to be one of the bolt actions with the absolute widest 3rd party support, along with maybe rem 700. So you can start quite affordable but then also have a lot of legs for whatever you might want to try later.

fyi even tho past 4th of july still seem to be a lot of sales happening right now. notjustguns has scar 17s for $3560, decent price and some anons want precision but also semiauto. ruger american hunter in 6.5 also available, not a common prg rec but $440 is a pretty decent deal for someone looking to do a budget build. anyway also just a general reminder to keep an eye out over the summer if you are thinking about a new gun.

>>63968941
good to know

>>63968468
Thanks for the response! I am fortunate to have a 1000yd range at a relatives property, and live in a state with a ton of BLM land and varying terrain that should make use of the range capabilities of 300WM. Im glad my research didnt send me down the wrong path with Tikka, it seemed the best fit for what I wanted both now and potentially if I want to change things later. I already reload .308, so Im setup to get the most out of 300wm, with a bit of load adjustment to suit the rifle. Will update when I actually get the rifle in.

What bipods do you guys use? I'm not looking to make a PSR exactly but I do need a bipod and would prefer one that's pretty light in weight so that I can keep it on at all times

>>63969704
Sorry, one other really important thing I totally forgot regarding 300wm in that platform since I've only been using it with shorter stuff: I love Tikka overall but it has to be said (or at least, it was, my knowledge is dated by about 4 years) that the box length of all of them is the same at about ~3.4", ie, that's how long a cartridge any of them can accommodate. That's fine for 300wsm, but it's a little tight to really run with 300wm in hand loads, and it's outright mediocre if you ever wanted to go to 300prc, where you really want more like 3.7+" to make full use of the really high bc interesting modern bullets. 6.5prc or whatever would be fine, and of course it'd be a solid 308 handload platform too. But while they do have "long action" it wasn't like, a super generous long action. Or if that's changed some other anon please correct me. But something like a Bergara B14, which does get to 3.7" box length, might be a better choice if you're interested in it specifically as a bigger round gun. Sorry for spacing on that.

>>63969710
>What bipods do you guys use?
A basic a fairly cheap Harris has served well on range guns. Atlas are a nice step up while still not breaking the bank. I have an MDT ckye pod on a single gun I enjoy taking out into rough hilly woods, where I can regularly make use of the extra extension. But even used it was still an indulgence purchase, and I don't think it's worth it if you don't have some terrain to actually push the thing (or get it for such an amazing deal it's like half off). $600-1000 for a fucking bipod is no joke.

I did notice a month ago or so that MDT has launched a cheaper series, more at the level of Atlas (and one $100 one but I think that might be exclusive to a chassis they do too?). I know nothing about them beyond that MDT has always done quality stuff, so might be worth a look.

>>63967229
bummer anon, that always is the worst feeling.

>>63964996 (OP)
Just picked up my new favorite horse. Gotta order a Kahles 540i now.

>>63970781
Struggle is real, oh well :\

>>63967229
>BLM crowns.jpg

>>63971685
Yep, pencil barrels are shitty and so is nu BCM

>>63967229
Crown has nothing to do with accuracy.

>>63971594
It sucks no matter the situation, you waste a bunch of time never figuring the one thing that is never wrong is indeed wrong. I had that in guns with a pistol suffering from light primer strikes tried a ton of stuff before a buddy suggested I drop in a field and go/nogo gauge. Fucking chamber was cut too deep! ffs

Best silver lining for the frustration is at least you figured out the cause and it's clear and objective.

>>63971756
You're clearly wrong >>63965318

>>63968941
>$440
Fuck me I wish I had a little spare cash.

>>63971769
nta but while it's been argued about for years there have been some pretty compelling tests that indicate even pretty shitty crowns have some effect but not massive:
>https://rifleshooter.com/2018/03/do-rifle-crowns-matter-does-a-crown-effect-accuracy/
dont think thats definitive since 5 rounds groups arent enough and divergence isn't corrected. still tho surprised me. doesn't negate anon clearly experiencing differences between barrels through direct testing but might be some other fuckup in barrel 2 not just the crown

>>63971825
Well, both barrels have radial marks throughout the bore which means the rifling was forged with a worn mandrel so they're fucked from the factory

>>63971960
yeah at some level of obvious factory fuckup its kinda pointless to dig into the specifics. just too many confounding variables right? wasnt trying to say your wrong about them being fucked just contributing a data point that I didnt know in the past myself but found interesting. astonishingly poor job from the sound of it. to the point I'd be a little nervous even about rma cuz damn that is some shit qc

>>63971960
Those look more like reamer marks than a worn mandrel.

>>63971982
>a little nervous even about rma
Indeed, M4 barrels are contractually 4 MOA so their QC is technically within mil spec. I should have gone with an HBAR or taper barrel instead, those group pretty good

>>63972001
>reamer marks
>in spite of the chrome plating
Grim!

>>63971798
debt is calling

>>63971690
those groups are terrible wtf happened?

>>63973437
Pencil barrels happened

Luv me PredatAR. Best profile, best machining, best accuracy. Simple as

>>63973521
>Best profile
So a stepped taper

>>63973714
yes, a taper is the best profile. Great job keeping up

>>63974674
I'd have to see how they stack up against medium profile barrels first

>>63973714
>>63974674
>>63974781
I'm kinda lost, are you guys talking about barrel contours, or do you mean something else with "profile"? Because there's a ton and there isn't really a best, just tradeoffs in weight vs stiffness (also touches on MD support) vs heat (both direct thermal capacity and cool down), and then you can get into fluting or if you're a richfag carbon. I wouldn't generally pick the same contour for a light woodsgun vs a bench gun. Heavy gun could be a straight 0.9 taper, or even a simple bull barrel, or at least a magnum, whereas for another might go with medium palma or even lighter (though lighter might prevent direct threading a suppressor if one cares). But a medium palma can be high precision, just for fewer shots in a row. But it'll cool faster between shots too.

>>63974819
>it'll cool faster between shots too
That doesn't work where I live

I'm new to PRS (holds up spork). Is this well enough zeroed? Should I be trying to get them more centered, or is this considered good? Felt like any more adjustment clicks made after this just moved them too much. That may have been my barrel heating up though. How many shots is a reasonable amount to take when shooting long range? Do I need to worry much about the barrel getting really hot and the shots "walking"? Maybe it was placebo, but it felt like it got the less accurate as it became hotter.

>>63975149
Yeah it does? 150-350 degrees or whatever is still a higher relative temp then 122 (and I assume given that's a car dashboard you're on a road and it's daytime with significant solar insolation). A hot barrel will still directly radiate too, which is also affected by surface area. Sure, if the delta between air temp and barrel temp is lower it'll cool more slowly, but a thinner or higher surface area barrel will still cool faster relative to a thick barrel.

Also damn, fucking brutal. I'm so glad to live somewhere where 90° is considered stupid hot.

>>63975317
The high desert sounds nice c:

>>63975571
whomsoever came up with this picture is a stupid fucking retard zoomer with little knowledge and less understanding

>>63975724
That image was devised by one of the OP's of /prg/

Here's more examples of his work :)

>>63966345
By sale hunting negro amigo

>>63975797
sell me that ONG 870. you don't deserve it you're not even from Ohio.

>>63975807
It's not an ONG shotgun, it was an Alaskan police cruiser shotgun

>>63975813
dang

Piss on my black horse tits

>>63976143
You appear to be missing an optic

Electrical tape in between the scope rings and scope is stupid, right?
Also, is it worth it to lapp the rings?

308 is calling me
I want a bolt gun.
What is a light 308 that everyones using? Do y'all fuck with those interchangeable barrel system rifles?

i have an overpriced bb gun

>>63976338
A bb gun that can punch an inch of pine board at 400yds, I love my B14R steel

>>63975295
Go up one click
>>63975776
TIL that anyone can post anything on the internet
>>63976251
yes, yes if you got shit rings you're trying to make non-shit but that won't make them as good as good rings
>>63976322
whichever savage axis line comes with the anschutz barrel best b4ur$. Also look at Tikka, Sako, Steyr and maybe even a used Sauer if you're feeling lucky. My local feed supply has a minty 6.5 swede Sauer 200 for $800, for example, and I'm in a shit area for gun stores. Americans don't know the name because they're shit at being gun owners

>>63976367
yeah man i'm on a waiting list for a local sporting club with a few 100 - 600 yd ranges, really itching to get out there, longest publicly available range is 100yd

>>63976384
Good luck anon, rooting for you.
I have a 1000yd range membership with a dedicated 450yd .22 range with steel every 25 or 50 yards and my B14R absolutely lives in that shit

>>63976398
if you dont mind me asking, what's your choice of ammo for pushing that distance

ive got a shitload of 1440fps 40gr but am curious what the best alternative for bigger distances may be (if any/relevant at all)

>>63976428
I just use SK rifle match for serious range attempts and SK standard plus (yellow box) for 99% of shooting

>>63976376
>anyone can post anything on the internet
fr

>>63976376
>yes, yes
cool, thanks

>>63978754
Just missing Goku on the stock

>>63976517
Like he said, millions

Nothing really special here. A Steyr SSG 69 PII. 1970's technology that still shoots under .75 MOA with factory ammo. The Steyr SSG 69 was the first designed sniper rifle in the world.

>>63980983
Looks very cool

>>63980983
That thing fucks in its own way

>>63978754
Hey that's my rifle. I recently got a partially fenced lower to better match the upper.

Thoughts on the Browning X bolt target pro? Some pretty huge discounts on the .308 and 6.5cm versions at one of the retailers here

>>63981794
No way. I can't remember when I saved it. Do you have any photos through the NV scope?

>>63966345
Just posted my Accu-Tac for sale, not because it's bad, but 6-9" is too short for practical use.
Accu-tacs are really solid, only thing that annoyed me a bit, is that the feet might come loose over longer shooting sessions.

Finally got myself a tripod for my upcoming moose hunt, tested out to 1100 meters (1200 yards) this saturday.
Really impressed with the versatility, tried it from standing at 600 m and prone at 1100, very stable and quite quick as well.
Got the Sunwayfoto T4030CSI.

>>63982109
Nice, arca rail or normal pic? Can't tell from that angle. I've considered trying out a tripod since I got my new rifle last year but have had other priorities and haven't quite been able to justify trying it around here, though a longer range moose hunt certainly would be a good case. It seems like some significant extra weight to go innawoods with if you're roaming, are you more planning to go to some scouted over looking positions or the like? Hope you'll share your impressions after your hunt in real world usage, good luck on finding a good one anon.

>>63982729
Running arca, that's also the main reason I'm getting rid of my accu-tac bipod which is picatinny, too much hassle getting a new clamp for it here in Norway.
The area we have for moose, is pretty well scouted, so we'll setup up some posts along the valleys.
The tripod is pretty light (5.5 lbs with everything), so I don't think weight will be an issue at all, I'll leave most of my stuff at camp anyway, so my backpack will be purely for carrying my shooting gear plus some food and water.

>>63982772
Makes sense. And yeah I can see how camp-based usage and a scouted area would also help a lot, if you're only carrying in then purely stick to rifle for the hunt the weight is less of an issue. I've got a solid enough bipod for woods work that I haven't really missed a tripod and 5-6 lbs isn't nothing, but it still seems interesting to try out, and I've got arca for the first time on my newer rifle. Maybe this year. God speed anon, wouldn't be able to bring funs but I'd love to visit Norway in the next few years. Northern woods and mountains are my favorite.

>>63982080
I do, though I dont own it anymore. I might get another one, but the one I had wasn't a great example. Nothing really wrong with it but it was ex Israeli and I'd rather have one with English on it.

>>63980555
Checked
>millions
Big if true

/prg/ could someone spoon feed me on a couple of items? I acquired babby's first long range rifle this weekend. B14HMR in 6.5 Creed. Arken EP-5 and Vortex Pro 34mm rings will be here Wednesday. Can I get someone to throw some recommendations my way for:
>extra AICS format magazine (would prefer 5 rounders)
>picatinny rail for the underside to mount a bipod
>muzzle break for 6.5creed
I'm totally new to this format and caliber, so any help would be appreciated.

>>63983222
checked, based, and cool photo. thanks

>>63983729
>B14HMR in 6.5 Creed. Arken EP-5 and Vortex Pro 34mm rings will be here Wednesday
Solid choices there, that should all take you a long way at decent value and be a good time.
>AICS mag
Not sure what you're expecting special here? Just buy whatever decent brand short action is available at a decent price, they're standard. Magpul's current generation (brown lock plate) PMAG 5 7.62 ACs would be fine for example, or MDT's.
>picatinny rail for the underside to mount a bipod
Area 419 and Atlas I think both make a pic rail that'll fit the bottom studs, maybe a few others. Badger maybe? But all those are perfectly reputable places and it's like $40, nothing to stress over. Get whatever.
>brake
Dunno on this one, at <30cal I only run suppressed.

>>63983729
A rail is a rail m8 there's lot of places to get them. Salmon river has good specialty ones if you want things like small arca around the magwell, qd/picatinny hybrids for the front.
For AICS, use any reputable brand. Magpul works fine but if you handload youre more COAL limited versus metal magazines like MDT, accumag, etc.
Muzzle brake: get something side ported. Or copy what you see prs people use in videos.

>>63984648
>>63984664
based. thanks, yall set me straight.

>>63984407
Sure thing, if you're thinking about getting one, whatacountry might still have them. That's where I got mine. There was a guy on Etsy who would refurbish and sell them, and the image quality looked much better in his pics than mine did. The tubes (the PVS-2 actually is three daisy chained image intensifiers) had some delamination, so you may notice that grain dead center as a result, they're kind of tricky to focus (the hebrew didn't help), but it's still a pretty awesome scope for what it is.

Got to do a little more shooting today. I had to resight my scope in after retorquing the stock bolts.

>>63983729
MDT Black Friday sale every year has magazines for half price. Metal MDT ACIS magazines are top tier

>>63985258
Super nice anon, also just good to see people getting out there.

I want to get some in at home, but unfortunately some "debt" has finally come due, I've been lazy (and super busy with work in my defense) about keeping my home property 'lanes' in my woods/fields clear, and the overgrowth has finally gotten bad enough to actively interfere. Going to have to put in some time hacking it all back, if I wasn't retarded trying to do too much different shit and get too ambitious with projects without proper prioritization I'd have made time in the spring when it wasn't 90°and humid with the worst horseflies I can ever remember vs doing it now. But a man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for right? This weekend is looking promising though so will do my best after work.

>>63985401
This is a good note. A lot of mags that prs guns use are more expensive then dirt cheap SR25s or whatever people might be used to, but mags remain consumables (and nice to have extras of anyway). They're also things that reliably go on good sales during a few of the bigger ones of the year, and not like the go bad. It's well worth setting a calendar reminder, there's a ton of gimmicky shit that will be on sale trying to grab you of course, but grabbing mags exclusively on sale each year can save real money if you don't miss it and is always useful.

>>63985419

Thank you. I've been blessed with a rifle that is fairly cheap to shoot and can group 5 shots at half MOA or better.

can't wait to go shooting once opticsplanet actually gets off its ass and ships my scope
6.5CM Tikka T3X action and barrel

>>63981847
Very little if non-existent aftermarket support. I think you can get a different trigger spring and maybe a different brake, but thats it. Thats the reason no one is buying them and why theres a huge discount.

>>63976322
I use a tikka t3x ctr in 308. It used to be my target gun but now its delagated to hunting use...a backup for my 6.5prc.

I use a cadex in 6.5 creed now for lr shooting.

>>63986208
Pic rel.

Got a buy planned for a 6.5 Larue used for 2500 sometime in the next few months, fingers crossed

I was thinking of getting a sightron s-tac 4-20 scope. Any /prg/ thoughts? Would be going on a 308 for casual shooting and eventually hunting

>>63987522
I don't have one myself, nor a lot of familiarity with Sightron stuff in general, but got to briefly play with a 3-16 at the range along with a few others we had gotten together to try out. A few concerns:
- It seems a touch flimsier than I think ideal? We've copied some of the simple online tests for scopes, the standard box tracking test of course, but also a really light minimal drop test of a foot and a half (18") onto a normal padded shooting mat. I'm not a fan of the absurd made up torture tests people do, but I don't want to have to treat it like it's tin foil either, and 18" onto padding is similar to what something might experience in a padded rifle bag that you were dropping into your truck bed or were offroad and caught more air then expected somewhere. A lot of decent scopes can handle it. But the STAC couldn't, it would not hold zero. This may or may not matter to you honestly depending on your usage. I've heard since Philippines scopes tend to be a bit thinner even though they do some nice quality overall, so may have been unfair.
- The reticle on the 3-16 at least was REALLY fine, a lot of us couldn't make out hashmarks at anything below 7-8x at 2pm on a semi-cloudy day.
- At the top end (14/15/16x) the chromatic aberration was honestly pretty bad.
- FOV seemed kinda tight even vs others in its class.
- The 0-stop wasn't toolless, though not everyone uses that feature.

I want to emphasize some of this may be different with the 4-20, amongst other things it's a 50 objective instead of 42, and more light coming in makes a reticle easier to see in more lighting conditions. There may be newer generations or fixes. Also of course we just had one with some random dudes, maybe it was a bit of lemon or the like. It tracked pretty well, glass was ok in the bottom 75%. I didn't hate it, but still I wasn't that impressed given the list price and how much competition there is nowadays in value optics. For casual shooting/hunting might be fine.

>>63976338
kinda off topic but I've been planning on upgrading my maintenance station and getting a better vise, how do you like that one anon?

>>63964996 (OP)
/prg/, is there any hope for a left-handed sonofabitch like me?

>>63965318
>pencil barrel
Thinner the barrel the more vulnerable it will be to heat. What did you expect? Buy a heavier profile barrel.

>>63989712
Sure, plenty of cool ambi bolts have been made over the years. PRS is pretty individual, you can make it work with all sorts of different approaches if you put in the effort.

>>63988337
Ah ok...they seemed like a decent scope for the price. Ill save the coins for a little bit for i dump the money on a scope. Ty for the reply.

>>63990089
You're welcome, hope it helps, though fwiw keep in mind often it's about what price you find something at vs absolute performance. A scope that's not a good value at list price might be a solid value on some 40% off special. Remember as well you don't necessarily need to go high end to get going, value scope glass is good now and sales are pretty common. Used stuff can be available cheap too.

And ultimately everyone's eyes are genuinely pretty different. So more than any other accessory, maybe even a lot of rifles themselves, I think it's worth making the effort if you can to get behind some glass in person. That might not be possible wherever you live, in which case it is what it is, but a lot of shops are fine letting you look through a lot of stuff and it's worth a small premium. Later on you'll know just what you're after. Good luck and have fun anon.

Noob here. Snagged this and wondering what rings, optic, and anything else i should do with this?
> https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/howa-randy-newberg-2-carbon-stalker-gun-metal-graycamo-bolt-action-rifle-65-creedmore-22in/p/1696522

>>63990191
What’s your budget? I’m guessing not much from the howa

>what rings
Literally doesn’t matter as long as you don’t buy some no name chinesium garbage off of opticsplanet or Amazon

>optic
Get a used vortex crossfire or diamondback, they are “decent” entry level scopes. They aren’t good by any means but at least they come with a lifetime warranty so when they inevitably shit the bed you can get it fixed at no cost and if you stop being a poorfag you can sell it to some other poorfag

>anything else I should do
Chuck it in the garbage, just kidding howas are decent. If you’re asking what else you should buy then that depends on your use case. If you’re hunting then a sling and maybe some shooting sticks or tripod depending, if you’re just going to be shooting from a bench then a bipod and sandbags would help.

I’m curious, is this your first bolt action? I assume it is based on the questions and that you’re also a poorfag so I don’t why did you decide to get a 6.5 creedmore? It’s not a popular hunting round, the ammo isn’t cheap, and it burns through barrels. I’m not saying it’s a bad caliber, It just seems like an odd choice of caliber for a first bolt gun to me at least.

>>63990590
>Get a used vortex crossfire or diamondback, they are “decent” entry level scopes. They aren’t good by any means but at least they come with a lifetime warranty so when they inevitably shit the bed you can get it fixed at no cost and if you stop being a poorfag you can sell it to some other poorfag
Wat. Value glass has gotten plenty solid nowadays, decent resilience is table stakes. Cheaper scopes can have somewhat low transmissivity/higher ca glass, or small qol things like mushier turrets, but you can get stuff on a budget that clobbers nice things from 10-15 years ago. And imo that's a very smart way to start, because for high end scopes you really want to know specifically what you're after and how to judge. There isn't just some blanket "best". You should also know if you're even going to be shooting enough for it to be worth it at all.

Also fwiw Vortex isn't really a value brand anymore, they've worked their way up into being a high tier one. And good for them, they earned it, but I think Meopta, Athlon, EO, maybe Arken, or even surprisingly Bushnell are more competitive now. Bushnell used to be sort of a mess but in the last couple of years under a major vista outdoors reorg (about 6 years after the original big spinoff from Alliant and subsequent messiness) they've been shaping up. The Bushnell MPED for example is one nobody seems to have heard of but offers surprising bang for the buck. The elevation system is shockingly good for a <$1k scope. Not a set screw to be seen.

Anyway, I wouldn't assume you can't get a solid scope at <$1k and definitely wouldn't just mindlessly pick one of the big old players either.

>>63990590
I thought it was a good deal. My only bolt actions are milsurp. I was kicking around the idea of getting a cz .22 bolt action to scratch the itch but this gives me alot more capability. Ive wanted to try 6.5 cred for a while now, i have a friend who has a really nice t3 that is fun to shoot and now i finally have something i can take to 800 yards with him. I have an atacr and elcan on my ar’s, id like some decent glass for this. $1000 or less would be comfortable. Honestly, ive had pretty bad luck with vortex so personally id like to avoid them even though they seem to be getting a lot better lately.
>>63991514
Ive been eyeing some meoptas. Im just not sure what a good magnification range for this would be. Also unsure of what ring height would be good for this. I was looking at this:
https://www.eurooptic.com/nightforce-shv-4-14x50-f1-.1-mil-illuminated-mil-r-c557-showroom-demo

Anyone know anything about the russian ZOMZ Kronos 4.5-13x56? I just won one for $50, only info i found is an article in Finnish.

Dont even have a fitting rifle for it but prob will stick it on a sporterized 93 Spanish Mauser action I'm resurrecting.

>>63992309
Pretty sure its just a russian hunting optic. I would expect it to be pretty robust and to have acceptable glass quality but a tight eyebox and short eye relief

>>63992337
Makes sense, the Finn described it as a good but old fashioned lower budget.

Still will be by far my best scope given I've never spent over $50 and am rocking an ancient weaver v9 with fungus everywhere

>>63991711
>Ive been eyeing some meoptas
The Optika6 is excellent for sure.
>Im just not sure what a good magnification range for this would be
Old advice used to be "1x per 100yd" but that was in an era of far worse/more expensive glass and ratios. These days more like 1.5x-3x is a fairly reasonable range, making the appropriate tradeoffs for mag vs low range fov vs weight etc, and of course cost. Keep in mind that you mostly want to be staying in the bottom 75% of your scope's range, ducking up above on occasion if you need it. If you find you're in the upper half or higher almost all the time mag is too low.

6.5 out a 22" should be good to 1000-1200 or so, but as a practical matter you might not have any access too (or interest in) pushing beyond 400/600/800 or whatever more than once in a blue moon, or if you're hunting even less. Say you think 600 is about the limit, then anywhere from 12x to 21x is probably a fine upper range which will probably leave you ~2x-4x on the bottom. A 5x or 6x ratio should have plenty of fine options these days. Mind, these aren't hard numbers, various players sometimes do oddball mags, or you'll see a good sale that pushes something a little more into your budget, but it's a place to start. Do consider things like what the fov is at each end. Also
>nightforce-shv
Don't buy that one. It's a really old design (nxs is even older), mediocre glass by current standards. It gets people by the NF brand name and atacr halo effect but it's not competitive now at all.

>>63992578
Also, at any range over 300yd or so you'll start to appreciate having adjustable parallax. So make sure to have that, anything 3-18 or 5-25 or whatever should definitely always have it, it's normal for long range scopes, but if you get something more like in the 2-12 or lower range sometimes it gets dropped to save weight because a lot of people are only using a scope like that at short ranges these days.

>>63989746
Any recs?

>>63992613

The old USMC way of doing it was to set the fixed parallax at 300 yards since it doesn't change much from 300-1000. Anything under 300 yards your parallax isn't going to matter much.

>>63992731
Yeah, for sure you certainly can make do. But for somebody buying brand new for a prs application in 2025, I don't think there's really any reason not to just make that a checkbox? A lot of features that used to be higher end have come way down, I think it makes sense to adjust one's baseline accordingly. If you had an otherwise decent older scope for free (gift or something) not saying to turn one's nose up at it, but wouldn't skip it for most new prs builds at this point either is all.

man getting a little excited, friday and sat morning almost here

>>63992578
>The Optika6 is excellent for sure.
Seen through quite a few of those in 5-30x56, very good glass, but pretty shit controls on it.
I think the 3-18x50 is the highlight of the Optika 6 line, if you are in the market for higher magnification, I'd honestly take many of the newer chink optics instead.

>>63986153
>Oryx
Throwing up in my mouth, the XRS and even the super budget field stock would do you better ergonomically for the price. The Oryx has always been an instant indicator that someones new or doesnt know a whole lot. They constantly get put up on the resale market.

How do you like your Tikka? Ive had a few and they never really felt worth the price unless it was second hand, like if I could get a remmington or a tikka barreled action for under 700 Ill pick the Tikka just because its good value but realisitcally there isnt a huge difference, and if I was buying new Id get a Bergara

>>63995019
Somewhat amusing to read how incredible retarded some people are.
Tikka absolutely shits on R700 and Bergara B14, haven't fiddled with Premier, but regular B14 isn't in the same league as Tikka.
Also, your shit talking of Oryx is equally retarded, Oryx is a very good chassis for building a long range rifle on a budget.
Sure, it's worse for positional shooting, but if you bought it for that, that's on you, right tool for the right job, etc.

As a note, I shoot Tikka, Bergara and Remington, so I'm not shitting on anything due to fanboy bullshit.
All based on my experiences building and shooting rifles.

>>63995075
Tikka is pretty meh if your talking about nice stuff

>>63995094
Depends on the use case, Tikkas have more consistent headspace than many custom actions on the market, and by far one of the best triggers out of the box, just adjust it down to 1.5 lbs and you are good to go.
Sure, it's not as nice as a British Mauser ripoff, or a German kipplauf, but as a tool, it's one of the best designs especially when considering available aftermarket support.
The regular polymer stock from Tikka is dogshit though.

>>63995019
>>63995094
I like Tikkas because I had a husky named Tikka :)

>>63995075
>>63995116
Yeah, I agree with this, the Tikka oob experience is one of the best short action precision rifles on the market for the price you can frequently find it at, that's the core reason it's such a common default recommendation for new shooters. Like, sure you can definitely get nicer stuff, and if you really want to customize and know what you're doing you can do that too, but if someone just wants to buy a gun, slap on a basic scope and bipod, pop in some decent factory 6.5 and get out and start trying out precision shooting without committing huge money and without further fiddling it's damn hard to beat at normal list prices. In defense/not defense of Bergara I will say:
>haven't fiddled with Premier
The premiers are what I see typically recommended as upgrades and they are upgrades over the regulars, they really are nicer, and if you reload and want to push long action more that's another plus. But they're also like, DOUBLE the fucking price of a basic t3x, and a solid premium over a CTR too. So I don't really consider them in direct competition at all.

I'm not sure I'd agree with you about "shits all over" though. Ultimately all of these are solid rifles that can be tack drivers. If someone saw some 40% off clearance sale on any of them at all I wouldn't hesitate, and you could use the savings to drop it into an XLR or something. Or if you found a cheap R700 could take the savings and replace the trigger with a timney. There's enough after market for any of these.
>>63995094
>Tikka is pretty meh if your talking about nice stuff
This is like saying to someone "your athlon cronus is pretty meh if we're talking about my $4500 ZCO"? I mean, ok.

>>63993499
Waiting on a fun? Going shooting? What happens friday

>>63996029
going shooting, but also supposed to be awesome weather after a long period of super humid 90s mixed with thunderstorms and winds. looking like beautiful clear low 70s/high 60s with almost no wind, and for once done jobs early. crossing fingers no shit comes up but otherwise gonna be a good time. hope other prg anons get some good weather too or else at least have been getting some of what we'll be getting already

>>63995834
When you’re talking about tikka shitting all over everything you can fuck right off with the fanboy shit. But that’s just me.

>>63996047
Are you the NEanon who got rained out all spring and early summer?

>>63996719
lol yep. or at least one of 'em. it rained every single weekend for 25 fucking weeks in row, wettest spring weekends since 1934. I mean I still got out and shot some anyway and just sucked it up, but appreciating the good spells more than usual

>>63996746
Just checked and it looks like Burlington is going for the record this weekend. They tied 1934 last weekend. Didn't check by totals, only some weatherman's post about consecutive weekends.

>>63996506
Tikka does shit all over R700 bullshit I don’t care what clone I’d take a tikka over it all day anyday

Huh, are there other green mountain anons in prg of all places? Neat.

>>63995019
Oryx wasn't my first choice, but finding a left handed chassis is tough to start with and then a left handed Tikka chassis is even more difficult

>>63997242
>Oryx wasn't my first choice, but finding a left handed chassis is tough to start with and then a left handed Tikka chassis is even more difficult
nta but sympathize with the compromises of trying to find something more niche. That said, for future reference I think the XLR chassis are quite good and I know some of them support both tikka actions and are ambi and will work with a left bolt. There's also an amusing bullpup chassis from mk machining (disclosure: that I'm probably going to build a rifle around though probably not this year) but it's silly expensive.

6creed reddit speshul

>>63996506
Doesn't shit all over everything, but Remington 700 is not in the same league.
Supposedly, they have better quality now, but it used to be common for barrel-bore not being centered, action face needing truing, lugs needing lapping, just to make it function right and shoot a decent group.
The R700 design isn't terrible, it's a very strong action design, and versatile, but the actual Remington rifles, there's some shitty quality control there.
Bergaras are quite nice, but used to have ejector issues (not sure if it's fixed on newer models), and still not as smooth as Tikka.
Tikka isn't perfect, as said earlier, plastic stock is horrible, and there's also the limited action length for long action cartridges and magnums, but it's enough for WSM or SAUM and their wildcats.

>>63983729
>>63984648
>>63984664
>>63985401
She's comin' together bois, thanks again for the help. Everything's mounted, torqued to spec, and blue Loctite. Bore sighted it as well for what it's worth. Area419 bipod rail will be in early next week, then she'll be range ready for hopefully next weekend.

On new builds like this do you guys sight in at 100 off the rip, or do you get it on paper at like 25-50yds first, then move out to 100 for the final?

>>63995019
This is brainrot from the faggots at r/longrange.

>>63998895
Paper/close to bullseye at 25, then tune at 100

>>63998895
>>63999267
There is zero point to shooting at 25-50 yards. take your bolt out. Use your eyes. Christ you people complicate things

>>63998895
Nice anon, hope it works great for you. Post your final setup and some initial shooting impressions once you do have it. As one extra accessory thing to keep in mind, if you want a longer backpack style case (like if you wanted to have a suppressor on the end all the time and take it innawoods) a year ago I had the same desire and a lot of trouble, but savior equipment has some good ones that have worked well for me.
>On new builds like this do you guys sight in at 100 off the rip, or do you get it on paper at like 25-50yds first, then move out to 100 for the final?
As long as you get to good 100yd zero in the end doesn't really matter how. I find bolts tend to make bore sighting so trivial that you don't need anything more to get on paper at 100yd without any intermediate if you're looking at something high contrast, looking through the end of a long barrel almost like a peep sight. But yes the difference in zero at 25/50/100 matters for precision of course but in terms of "within a 12 inch circle" it's not an issue. Alternatively/additionally some of us have or share amongst shooting buddies a cheap-o chinesium barrel laser to speed up the process on any gun. I bought a rando one for $15 off amazon a few years ago and it still works fine, and I can see it on a target at 100yd no problem. But that's more for pita semis or maybe teaching than for normal bolt zeroing.

So yeah like other anon said don't over complicate it. Zero at whatever you can see and if that's less then 100yd it'll be close enough for paper at 100yd.

Curious have any anons tried intermediate to longish range, like 400-1000yd not 1000+ ELR, shooting with one of the spicier 22cals? 22-250/22-250ai/220/22cm or whatever? What was your experience?

>>63999367
maybe he has bad eyes

How high a value do people place on standard (like aics) mags when picking a rifle?

>>63999367
I'll do what i want because it works.

>>63986208
I want to start hunting purely to have an excuse to by a baller ass Tikka, bad ass anon

>>63975797
Are those MLOK bipods any good? Considering getting one.

OK longbois, I have a optics questions if you'll indulge me. I'm not really into the very long range game, but I compete in the Tactical Games and I need to be able to get rapid hits out to about 500yds. I'm set on the rifle and ammo, a Mk12 Mod H and 77gr OTM, respectively. But last week I competed using a (free) garbage Vortex 1-8 with a bdc. I was able to clear the stage but I'll definitely be upgrading. I'm thinking about switching to a US Optics 3-18 FFP mil/mil with Christmas tree. Is this a good choice? I get a fat US Optics discount and they seem to be decent.

>>63998895
How are the Arken scopes? Are they decent for budget options?

Bamp

I have a spuhr mount (qd-3002) with a budget vortex scope in it. i just found it and forgot i bought it. i have brain damage.

i want to put some legit glass in it, what are some quality fighting long range 30mm tubes? is nightforce still king

>>64004656
I quite like mine, the DNT is fine as well.
They're OBVIOUSLY budget glass, but I use them to 1k and so do my friends. Really stellar on a .22 trainer

>>64004095
>US Optics
At one point, like I dunno 15 years ago or something, they were considered very high tier. I remember them getting mentioned alongside players like S&B. But they went through ownership changes and shifts in focus (harhar), think they moved manufacturing, etc etc. They now don't seem to be as competitive or semi-custom as they once were. But from everyone I've talked to they're still solid overall just considered over priced by 2025 standards, but if you get a fat discount (LEO/MIL?) that's not an issue. The only consistent objective complaint I remember hearing is that they're pretty tunnel-y through the lower mags and pretty narrow FOV even at lowest mag. Quite tight eyebox. For PRS target shooting that is not typically an issue. But maybe it'd matter more in your stated use-case, just something to keep in mind. Also IIRC the midrange mags have somewhat smaller objectives, 50mm for 17 and 52mm for 25? So it'll be a little dimmer in low light then a 56mm. Whether this matters will depend on the specifics of your events but something to keep in mind too.
>>64004656
>How are the Arken scopes? Are they decent for budget options?
They can definitely be yes, though like a lot of the low end seems to be more variability in individual units so just make sure you check. As said earlier in thread, Arken, Athlon, Element Optics, Meopta, even Bushnell are all ones you could consider in similar price brackets.

>>64006203
Please tell me what the best glass is in the game rn

>>63964996 (OP)
Is this good oil to clean the action, bolt bore and barrel?or do I need separate cleaners?

>>64006287
Forgot image

>>64006287
>>64006295
It’s better than WD40 but not by much, over time, Rem-oil gums up and can actually cause malfunctions if it’s been awhile since you shot.

>>64006333
What are some good alternatives? Just went to the range for the first time and looking to clean my gun

>>64006235
>Please tell me what the best glass is in the game rn
Unironically: there isn't one. All the high tier stuff nowadays is excellent but have different tradeoffs in aspects like fov or special features. I suppose maybe the current go-to "default best" recommendation is ZCO, but after evaluating them and a bunch of others I went with March instead. But March is a really niche company that do ultra compacts and a pretty unique combo mount/optics option. 9 months later and I still love it and love the company but I absolutely cannot call them "the best" or even competitive, most people aren't in the market for what they offer. All I can really say is that 1) you really, really should try to make some effort to get behind glass IRL before dropping big money, and should have a good amount of time with cheaper glass under your belt so you know what you want, and 2) I don't think most people would be unhappy with ANY of the high end down the middle options. We live in a golden age and everything is good. If you're really not sure and really can't test then just don't get anything weird that might actively sabotage you and you won't go too wrong. Read the specs carefully.

>>64006287
Get some decent normal CLP like ballistol or for tougher stuff break free, and then any normal decent gun oil that won't turn to glue over time. I like slip2k but honestly whatever, just don't get with fudd stuff or meme shit like coconut oil+peppermint (aka froglube). /k/ has always argued big time around that one though. There's even some /k/ommando autistic enough they did their own and have endlessly tweaked it ever since.

If you're going to let a gun sit for >6 months don't use oil at all, use grease and just accept that you're going to have give it a thorough cleaning before use.

>>64006203
Thanks for the detailed response. It'd be the jap glass from US Optics and I'd get it for $450ish as a vet with an expert voice account.

>>64006414
alright thanks, i guess i have a more specific question then. what's the best eyebox you've found on the market rn?

>>64006287
I use boretech cleaner personally, and a small bit of industrial bearing grease on the bolt guides.

so there is a rem 700 sps tactical in 6.5 at my gunstore for 500, should i pull the trigger on it?
riffling is good and it comes with 34mm scope rings

>>64007307
Yeah, just make sure the chamber is empty. Probably ask the clerk first too. I usually test it before I buy a gun.

>>64007831

>>63966486
Thanks from all the lurkers out there, it's useful for when we don't keep up with threads. I post or reply about 5 times a year.

>>63967727
Been a while, meant to reply to you as the lurker. Keep up the good work in updating the guides anon :)
>>64008684

>>64008705
Same anon either way (OP).

>>63987522
Is that their SFP? I know they're reasonably popular in F-class, but they're a little lighter than the tactical brands which implies a bit less ruggedness (backed up by almost no PRS guys using them). Their warranty isn't great, and their reticle options are also pretty basic.

They're just kinda behind the curve compared to companies like Vortex, although their high mag SFP stuff might be the trick for a dedicated F-class gun.

>>64009381
Yes, i was looking at the SFP...for hunting the FFP reticles just dissapear in dusk/dawn for shots in dark brush...and sometimes i dont have time to turn on the illumination. SFP reticles are nice for that and IF i dial i just use the turrets. Most times thought i just do a hold over because at those distances i have time.

>>64009635
The problem is that the qualities of a good competition gun (whether F-class or PRS) conflict with the qualities of a good hunting gun. You can try to make a do-it-all gun, especially in the more controlled .308 divisions, but it's a challenge.

>>64010301
>The problem is that the qualities of a good competition gun (whether F-class or PRS) conflict with the qualities of a good hunting gun
nta but I don't know if I'd entirely agree with this, or at least I think it needs a little more qualification because competition shooting and hunting both cover a pretty wide spectrum. The biggest inherent issue I can see is between on-the-go 0-200yd hunting vs someone being very serious about long range (1000yd+, or king of 1 or 2 mile even) precision shooting. That's where the requirements mismatch between wanting something light and compact with 1.5-2.5moa as gudenuf vs needing to eke out every bit of variable control damn the weight (as long as it's under the 22 lbs f-class limit maybe) probably gets to be too much.

But on the comp side, there are plenty at shorter distances (technically f-class is 300-1000yd, I've seen 500yd ones, and specific small bore match flavors too including 22lr-only) people have good fun with (typically with much lower weight limits too). They can be fun because they tend to be more accessible with less equipment and also just plain more areas can find the distance needed for a range vs a full 1000yd or more. Someone also might just plain be fine not being top tier, but rather topping their own personal bests and having a good time even if they never beat the guys with specialist setups.

On the hunting side, someone could do a more static hide based style, single or multiple, or other styles to reduce how much rifle weight matters.

Writing all that out I do recognize that at some point one just has to take a step back and be like "is this worth the effort vs just having one rifle for each job?". But still I can think of some very precise center 22 or 6mm bolts that would also be enjoyable for a lot of hunting too, albeit overkill on the precision.

>>64010404
When I think of hunting, I generally think of <200yd durr and burr hunting where you aren't typically firing long strings. Even in more static styles, the extra weight doesn't really help. Maybe he's varminting where your setup is closer to a competition rifle, I'll concede that.

I think it makes more sense to have a gun that's PRS and F-Class legal, and then a separate light handy durr gun with a comparatively light and low magnification scope.

>>63989809
Can you give some broad recommendations?

>>64010301
Im not into comps or prs. Just casual target shooting and hunting

So where can I actually look down some of these expensive scopes? Where can I look down a zco?

>>64010680
>Even in more static styles, the extra weight doesn't really help
Sorry, I wasn't saying the weight helps, I was coming at it from the angle of "how badly does the weight hurt". I was just saying there are some styles where the extra weight isn't a deal breaker at all. People have hunted with heavy ass old style guns a long time. Actually I should weigh it because I'm now genuinely curious, but my recollection is my great grandfather's 33wcf rifle is no fairy.

Anyway, I guess also was thinking about a future project when I wrote that. I've been playing around with putting together a 22cm rifle next, still focused on precision, but going much smaller instead of big. A lot of guys I respect love it and say it can push 80 or even 88s with a slightly higher custom twist solid distances with (to me anyway) pretty impressively low drop/drift. Yet even a fast hunting 70gr with a respectable ~1800 ftlbs energy is still half the recoil of plain jane 308, let alone 300wm. Part of the point here would be having a dramatically lighter rifle while maintaining the same felt recoil or less and still being able to reach 800-1000, maybe add some weight for comp that can just be popped off again.

I think the result though might also still be a reasonable hunting gun, not the lightest possible but not 14+ lbs either. The scope would probably be the biggest unnecessary weight item, don't need 20-30x for hunting and that glass is heavy. But quality spuhr QD mounts make jumping between scopes on a gun fine, you don't really want to use QD between different guns but multiples on the same gun is a good use-case.
>I think it makes more sense to have a gun that's PRS and F-Class legal, and then a separate light handy durr gun with a comparatively light and low magnification scope.
Yeah I don't really disagree anon. Some of the new 224 rounds interest me and this jogged that a bit is all.

>>64010685
Been mentioned in the thread but XLR's element chassis has a well earned good rep, isn't ludicrously expensive, and is ambi. Multiple companies make aftermarket barrel assemblies for the various popular actions and you just need to let them know it's for a lefty.

Honestly this is one area where the gun market itself has just advanced really fast to our benefit, even vs a few years ago. Like, putting aside "build" even entirely, pretty sure you can just go to places like bud's or sportsman's or other big online stores and have a bunch of left handed guns (tikkas, bergaras etc) ready for order with old fashioned or modern stocks. Nothing like, I mean shit can't even really say "the old days" because wasn't that long ago, but while yes the choices aren't equal you can definitely find some fun solid options.

>>64010818
>So where can I actually look down some of these expensive scopes? Where can I look down a zco?
This is going to be completely location dependent anon. On the commercial side you may find some LGS or other stores with 'em, ZCO has a dealer page so go look and see if anything is close to you. Not all states are there but a lot are. My assumption would be that a lot of shops carrying zco also carry other high end brands and if you're serious about buying something would be fine to have you look through a bunch, but obviously quality of lgs varies widely. Some are super cool and some are assholes.

On the non-commercial side some gun clubs and private ranges have demo/sharing day sorts of events where everyone is encouraged to bring in some fun stuff and others can look through it and learn, sometimes they even get reps to bring samples if they're big enough/well connected/organized. Even more than a dealer though whether there's something like that around is somewhat luck. And of course if you're part of any sort of local group you can always just put up a message "hey I'm trying to get a feel for different nice optics brands, anyone have ZCO/NF/xyz they could let me look through at the range?"

>>64010831
To be honest, I've been getting into airguns lately. They're so convenient, and hitting small targets with pellets easily moved by the wind captures a lot of what makes target shooting fun.

>>63999367
^^^This
Just use the corner of a paper and boresight at 100, it's easier to find middle using paper edges.
I'm usually 5-10 clicks from actual zero this way, 2-3 shots to get rough zero, then shoot a 5 shot group to verify.

>>64010972
>and hitting small targets with pellets easily moved by the wind captures a lot of what makes target shooting fun.
22lr can be fun for that too, the 100-300yd experience there shares a lot of the effects of elr with a bigger round while being more approachable. And yeah, airguns are great fun. And can be genuinely pretty powerful too, large bore ones can hit over 600 fpe which is plenty enough for small and medium game at <100yd. Airguns can also be very accurate, with extreme consistency. And if you want to fill yourself you can by hand or an electric pump is only around $300, in terms of ammo savings that'll pay for itself real fast.

>>64010972

That's why I prefer older technology. I love to shoot WWII Sniper Rifles and stuff up into the 70s. No new tech to help. I find it more fun and when I pull off some amazing shots, it's more special for more.

>>64011981
I'm ok with newer chassis and barrels and such myself, and in particular I'm grateful to have such good glass and nice turrets and so on available so cheaply nowadays. However I have very deliberately avoided adding any active tech, smart scopes, solution computers, built in ranging etc. Or even exotic bench-only gear, I stick with rifles I can take at least some ways innawoods and use there. It's not that such things don't work or I think they're unreliable or anything like that, and I don't think less of anyone who enjoys that aspect or really needs it. People have done some wild cool stuff with linux smart scope things homebrew, and doing your own code and designs yourself is based in my book same as doing anything else on your own. Different kind of learning but still serious effort and learning.

But I agree with you that personally I want my normal shooting to be about me and my skill (or lack thereof). If I'm trying to do a challenging shot and just can't quite do it, or if on a given day I can't manage the groups I want, it might be frustrating but nothing is hurt by it. There's nothing on the line. And it's definitely all the sweet when you do pull it off, and recognize your own growth.

>>64011981
Outside of the novelty, I don't. I want my skill issues to be the reason for the misses, not because I'm shooting a 4MOA garbage rod.

6.5 Creed ammo. Are any of these LGS prices reasonable for what you would be willing to pay? I'm eyeballing the Sig Super Elite since it looks to be an average around $40/box online.

>>64012133
>Are any of these LGS prices reasonable for what you would be willing to pay?
It looks like the typical LGS ~40-70% markup with the high end on anything with "Match" in the name lol. Basic bitch decent S&B as pictured there is or light weight Winchester is around 80cpr (there's actually a nice bulk sale going on right now of win 125gr for 70cpr). Winchester Match 140, Norma Golden 130, or Hornady should all be around 120-130cpr. So yeah major markup there.

Whether it's "reasonable" or not I guess depends on if you live in a reasonably free state where you can have ammo shipped to you or a monopoly state where you are forced to buy through an LGS, God help you. If you can have ammo shipped to you then it's just a normal "convenience tax", you'd be paying to have something today not in a week. Buy some to test out or tide you over then order in bulk. If you live in an unfree state then you'll be forced to hunt around to see if there is anyone being more competitive but I suspect a lot of places will be marking up early and and often.

>>64012025
nta but not as if everything old was inaccurate man. 4moa is rando service rifle accuracy in any era. quality old guns could and did do sub-moa even if you need to tune ammo more

>>63986153
scope finally came in
tomorrow's going to be a good day

>>64013886
Nice. I still remember last year when the final pieces came in after ages of waiting and it all came together. Have a blast anon.

>>64002824
They're probably the best rifle to go hunting with and im never selling mine.

>>64010890
I just checked. For some reason the only ZCO dealer in the general western US is in sacramento. What the fuck! i might fly over there if they offer me a deal to take their tube but I already know they wont

Is there any advantage to having a straight pull over a traditional pull?

>>64014738
Yeah, not in my region either, so had to depend on rangefolks. If you're not in a rush and ever travel to visit family or whatever then you can sorta file it away in the back of your head, if you're gonna be in an area with one anyway for other reasons then swinging by becomes free, but of course you just might not ever be. So you'll have to ask around then, find local groups and such. They're popular enough amongst serious folks that if you participate in any sort of f-class or precision days or the like probably some repeat faces will have one, and you can ask. Good luck anon.

>>64014746
>Is there any advantage to having a straight pull over a traditional pull?
If you live in a place where semis are banned and want something more of the way there but still legal. Or if you just like it I guess. But mainly no. Main argued advantages tend to be that you can cycle slightly faster, and cycle while maintaining sight picture. But the former is really negligible if you actually train and develop proper muscle memory, and the latter isn't an inherent quality of bolts either (most famously see the Lee Enfield which struck around in service until like the fucking 1980s for good reason) although plenty do require tilting your head. And at any rate string times basically never matter in comp, just precision.

In exchange you get a not insignificant increase in mechanical complexity (both in manufacture and fail points), significantly less resilience in the face of fouling & dirt, a less strong mechanism that's more sensitive to over pressure ammo, etc. That combined with relative rarity this side of the pond also tends to make them significantly more expensive.

That said, and cost aside, I won't deny fancy euro straight pull guns like the blaser r8 are pretty neat looking.

>>64014888
Checked.
I hate that there aren't any modern rifles using the Lee-Enfield action, I'd buy one in a heartbeat if there was.

>>64014721
Picked up mine today, really excited to get it sighted in this weekend

>>64015312
Forgot pic:

>>64014888
Lol the Canadian Rangers just replaced their old Enfields a couple years ago

>Kar-98K reciever
>Airsoft full length plastic stock
>Line inside of plastic with layers of aluminum foil
>Badace rail replacing rear sight

im thinkin im onto a PEAK rifle

>>64015317
>>64015312
Details. I love that series...nearly bought a 30-06 with a 20" more than a few times

Whats the cheapest 22lr bolt action rifle to learn anything on reliably? Is it just the savage 22lrs or should I be spending more for something like a cz or tikka?

>>64016144
Savage MK2s are quite accurate, reliably moa or even less. Plenty good enough to learn a lot (and honestly any 22 at all will help with all sorts of fundamentals if you put in the time). Upgrade stuff can be fun if you got super serious about comp or just love 22 shooting so much you feel like treating yourself to a bit of luxury but are completely unnecessary. FYI you can get a savage mk2 with a bit of top rail, the fv-sr model, and it's like, $10 more expensive (should be able to find one around $250-290ish). That's the only specific I'd recommend just so that you have the opportunity to experiment with normal pic mounting and easy spirit level and so on if you want.

>>64016173
Would a cowitness red dot with adjustable magnifier be ok or would using that one guide and buying a normal scope be better? I have a bunch of red dots around.

>>64016265
In this specific instance I'd suggest a proper scope, even with 22lr, though of course you don't need even remotely as much mag when you're only going out 1/3 the distance or less. But if the goal specifically is to practice precision shooting then you're going to be pushing it a lot further and trying to get much smaller groups than folks typically do with 22, and getting practice with maintaining sight picture through a scope eyebox, trying to learn how to deal with the drop and windage aspects, practice turret/reticle use etc will all serve you. Part of the value here is that 22lr will experience the same effects at much much shorter distances. 6.5cm at 1000m will have drop of ballpark 10-12mils (27-33moa@1000yd) and maybe 2-2.5mils of drift in a 10mph wind (specifics depend on bullet and gun). Meanwhile 22lr will experience that kind of ballistics within 200-300yd, which make no mistake is HARD with 22, it starts dropping very quick. Of course it's a lot easier in most of the country to find a place with few hundred to shoot at then 1000, hence the value alongside just being a ton cheaper and avoiding some risk of developing bad habits like flinch.

So a cheap-o 3-9 or 2.5-10 or 2-12 or the like is fine, no need for anything fancy, sales on used stuff is good here. And silly to have a ton of extra weight for big glass. But I do think you'll find a real scope helpful in learning.

How big of a deal is illumination? Theres a ton of used high end scopes on ee and tacswap but theyre almost all the non illuminated version. Will i regret it that much?

>>64012025

I know what my skills are and what they can do. Shooting one of my modern rifles works, but it is boring. There's no challenge in it at all. But I know my level of shooting and what I can and cannot do.

And you don't have to get a 4 MOA rifle surplus rifle. I've shot a few WWII sniper rifles (with modern ammo of course) that would easily group 1 MOA.

That being said technology from the 70s isn't that bad. The USMC M40 & M40A1 are tack drivers as is the Austria SSG 69. Both my M40A1 and my SSG 69 will do 1/2 MOA.

>>64015274

There was an Australian Company that produced modern Lee Enfield rifles but chambered in 308 instead of 303. Sadly they aren't around anymore and the rifles can be a little pricey now.

>>64017518
Once again all the trade restrictions and gov bullshit wrt guns even between allies screws everyone over (probably).

>>64017502
One of the reasons I bought a 9mm pcc and keep eyeing milsurp rifles. I just can't justify any milsurp right now till I get into reloading though.

We have had an offer to help with new infographics from the /gq/ infographics anon:

>>64005195
>>64009349
>>64009462

>>64017502
>There's no challenge in it at all
I think your course of fire is probably too easy.

>>64018998
>I think your course of fire is probably too easy.
nta but while that might certainly be true it also might be hard to work around depending on where he's located. Yeah you can try to make string times matter, add environment and shooting factors and find other ways to add challenge but from a PRS perspective at some point it's hard to make 100-300yd that exciting with a quality modern center fire and accessories. If you happen to live right near some nice BLM land or have multi-mile ranges then you can keep pushing the skill ceiling indefinitely no matter how nice the gear, but for a lot of us I suspect that's more a rare treat vs whenever we feel like it. If you own the right property I think you could get creative with moving targets but it'd be some real effort and investment, and not everyone has that either.

So gotta make do right? And one of the most straight forward ways is to switch guns. This could be like earlier anon and going to 22lr or the like, so you start experiencing serious drop and windage within 300yd, or you can pick guns and accessories that are cool and can shoot well in principle, but are much fussier and more demanding of the shooter.

>>64017230
obviously people went without for most of the history of guns and optics so hardly required. barely use mine but also dont shoot dark targets in dark conditions. probably nice to have if you like twilight shooting

>>64018998

I don't shoot PRS.

I have gongs set up from 300 to 1760 yards. I shoot in all weather conditions from blistering sun to rain. I use from Bipod to resting on a rucksack, from prone to kneeling.

>>64019562
Maybe try hunting. I quickly became bored of paper and metal targets as the main course for my hobby, and now they serve only as a test area for changes and practice when it’s not hunting season.

>>64017230
>How big of a deal is illumination? Theres a ton of used high end scopes on ee and tacswap but theyre almost all the non illuminated version. Will i regret it that much?
I don't have a full tree myself and I'd be interested in hearing other anons on this and how much use anons actually get out of a illuminated full tree (those who have one anyway). On my optic the only illum is the center cross hairs, but I'll admit I rarely even use that. For target shooting, even in fairly dim light, it's irrelevant, there's plenty of contrast to see the reticle anyway. For hunting I could see it being of some value at twilight, you can't control the background there, but at the same time at any typical hunting distances around here (ie, <200yd and usually <100yd) target is so close that getting 2-3moa requires zero precise correction anyway, and you can use a bit more mag and still see a target fine. I don't have any sort of thermal or nv clip-on, is it useful there? Or environments that aren't around here but where it makes a lot of sense? Maybe from field into dark forest, but how far is one doing that from?

Dunno, it kind of seems neat on paper and I certainly wouldn't turn it down, between two otherwise near identical scopes could be a tie breaker, but I've never felt like I missed it either and lack of it in my optic didn't bother me. But maybe I just don't know what I'm missing?

>>64015274
>>64017518
Somehow hadn't really thought about it but I can run the bolt on my srs without moving my head and it's low enough not to hit. Probably a bunch of others out there too, so it is still a thing on newer designs.

anyone got any upcoming projects or shooting trips planned for this year? goals or ambitions you want to meet?

>>64021812
Well, I bought my first gun 5 years ago but am just now getting the guts to become a member of a nice outdoor range and hopefully shoot some groups.

I'm also the same guy who is eyeing a ZCO, but thats only because i looked through a leica binocular once and thought damn i want this kind of brightness on my gun.

>>64013886
finally made it and dialed it in
now I need more practice and start thinking about load development

>>64022610
That looks like no rear bag/weak placement and the butt stock kicking down as the rifle recoils up

>>64022896
this was me zeroing the rifle
the three in the center were from my last adjustments
but you're right, my rear bag wasn't large enough to angle the rifle properly and I had to prop the butt stock with my off hand to get good shot alignment

I can't find a range near me that goes past 100yd, is that normal?

>>64022610
Super nice, congrats anon. Such a good feeling when it all comes together after a lot of waiting and then it shoots decently as hoped, no last minute lemon surprises.

>>64023377
Depends on your area, obviously if you're in a more suburb type of place or whatever that'll make it harder for ranges. But even in really rural places if most people shoot on their own land or public land and it's easy, there might just not be enough of a market for big ranges. Or maybe there are some around but they're all private club sort of deals and you need to know someone or shit like that. Some of it can just be sheer luck of the draw, same as whether your town has decent places to eat. The right person at the right time with the right opportunity might decide to start a business that becomes a local institution, or not.

>>64023377
depends on location and what you consider "local"
I'm in a pretty rural area, but I'm lucky that my local range goes to 200 yards
some other local ones don't even go a full 100, and these are outdoor ranges
if I want to go out to 400 yards, it's an hour drive one way and anything beyond that is at least 3:30-4 hours away

>>64025081
>I'm in a pretty rural area
This depends on location too, but one thing I've found helpful in my rural area is logging. Logging on public land (state forest, national forest) needs to be approved so there are public maps available, and various sites (often environmental focused groups) who make decent resources around it. Once they log a strip often there's some good shooting to be found for 2-4 years afterwards before underbrush grows up too much, assuming you live in an area that has a bit of hills and isn't perfectly flat. And there can be logging roads that make it easier to get to as well if you've got the right vehicle. Licenses are needed for hunting of course but target shooting can be done whenever. Anyway you may not have any state/national forest near you either but something that could be worth checking.

is the classic "long range shooting handbook" still recommended? any other favorite books or sites or youtube channels on getting better?

night /prg/

>>64027250
gn

gm /prg/

Anyone going shooting this weekend? Whatcha shooting? How far?

>>64028415
mornin'
>Anyone going shooting this weekend?
Yeah definitely going to squeeze in at least some, trying to be way more consistent vs waiting for the perfect opportunities. Man is it easy to keep thinking "eh next weekend" and then holy fuck it's been months. But also not going to be anything ambitious due to both work and weather (thunderstorms yet again sunday).
>Whatcha shooting? How far?
It'll just be 22 and 300wm, testing out some different ammo, and I doubt more then 300yd. I've got a few places I've been working on locally from 100-300yd, nothing special but convenience value is there. To find longer distances requires a real drive and some hiking, makes more sense to devote a day or preferably a weekend to it in that case. But feels good to get out innawoods and just get behind your gun.

>>64028415
still on the hunt for a range i can call home