YF-23 should've won

Dick Cheney was Sec of defense at the time and his wife was on the board of directors of Lockheed then

>>63973756
secdef didn't get a vote here. decision was usaf's.

>>63973797
>being this retarded

>>63973747 (OP)
>The selection decision has been speculated by aviation observers to have involved industrial factors and perception of program management as much as the technical merit of the aircraft designs.[69][70] At the time, Northrop was viewed as riskier because it was struggling with the B-2 and AGM-137 TSSAM programs in terms of meeting cost, schedule, and predicted stealth performance.[36] In contrast, Lockheed's program management on the F-117 was lauded for meeting performance and delivering on schedule and within budget, with the aircraft achieving operational success over Panama and during the Gulf War.[71] While the YF-23 air vehicle was in a higher state of maturity and refinement compared to the YF-22 due to the latter's late redesign and partly as a result had better flight performance, the Lockheed team executed a more aggressive flight test plan with considerably higher number of sorties and hours flown. Furthermore, Lockheed chose to execute high-visibility tests such as firing missiles and high angle-of-attack maneuvers that, while not required, improved its perception by the USAF in managing weapons systems risk.[72] With the overall final F-22 and F-23 designs competitive with each other in technical performance and meeting all requirements, the USAF decision then took into consideration non-technical aspects such as confidence in program management when determining the winner.
Seems like a reasonable decision.

>>63973747 (OP)
Northrop would have delivered something excellent eventually
Lockheeb would have delivered something decent now.

and this is coming from someone saying that the YF-23 really should have won.

>>63973747 (OP)

Nah, they should have kept the F-22 but built the NATF-23 for the Navy.

>>63973859
>Canards

>>63973859
Nah. The Navy doesn’t really need a high end fighter, the F-35 is good enough for their needs.

What they REALLY need is a strike aircraft other than the Super Hornet. Something like an F-15E, but navalized and modern.

>>63973797
Hmm. Would I like to get on the wrong side of a guy who could rek my career, or make a wrong decision that won't have any personal impact on me.

>>63974078
?

>>63974139
pentagon wasn't like that.
look at tomcats. navy fought the good fight. if secdefs wants to kill tomcats, secdef will have to do it by himself.
>While upgrades kept the F-14 competitive with other teen series fighters, Cheney stated that the F-14 was 1960s technology. Despite an appeal from the Secretary of the Navy for at least 132 F-14Ds and some aggressive proposals from Grumman for a replacement,[43] Cheney planned to replace the F-14 with a fighter that was not manufactured by Grumman.

>>63973747 (OP)
I absolutely fucking love the YF-23, think it was the superior design, etc, HOWEVER:
>>63973815
>In contrast, Lockheed's program management on the F-117 was lauded for meeting performance and delivering on schedule and within budget, with the aircraft achieving operational success over Panama and during the Gulf War
Yeah this is undeniable, though in retrospect Northrop has been a solid company that has survived. But so has Lockheed, and the stuff the Skunkworks guys did was fucking amazing as was their entire ethos. I actually don't think it's entirely fair to give Lockheed management all the credit for that, it was a pretty autonomous unit founded basically due to the sheer charisma awesome of Kelly Johnson, who bullied management and generals to get his way and put together a hell of a team then shield it and the sunuvabitch actually made it work too. Repeatedly. Then he chose an excellent successor in Ben Rich (whose book on Skunk Works should be required /k/ reading if you're into aircraft at all, it's a fantastic book). So yeah Lockheed had some real halo at that point.

I still lean towards the YF-23 being the better choice anyway, because fact is with the Cold War winding down the military was not pressed for time and I think over a few decades (particularly if Bush 2 hadn't been elected) it'd have been the better one for today. But I can't blame them either really. Implementation does matter, and they didn't know the future.

>>63973747 (OP)
It looked too silly. Same with the other f-35 competitor.

>>63974078
>The Navy doesn’t really need a high end fighter, the F-35 is good enough for their needs.
A dedicated platform for launching A2A missiles at max range would help them immensely in the Pacific. Even 100-200 extra miles would go a long way towards keeping the carrier out of harms way.

>>63974078
>Nah. The Navy doesn’t really need a high end fighter, the F-35 is good enough for their needs.
>What they REALLY need is a strike aircraft
is the F-35 not a strike aircraft?

>>63974933
nta.
f-35c has limited strike capability. its range, payload and munitions (no harms, no big laser-guided bombs) doesn't compare to the f/a-18 super hornets.
so f-35c is not going to replace any f/a-18 super hornets. that's what f/a-xx is for.

>>63973747 (OP)
If the YF-23 is so good, how come no one is copying its design?

Korean stealth figther = looks like a F-22
Turkish = looks like a F-22
Chinese = looks like a F-22

>>63975059
it's the most popular stealth fighter and they're cargo cults.

The YF-23 was just as stealth as the SU-57.
Notice how the engine front blades are visible.

>>63975059
The Su-57 is accidentally similar to it but because it's a Su-27 with internal bays and angular sides, not a clean sheet design.
Converting the B-1 or F-14 would produce something similar.
The bay can be huge but it looks terrible.

>>63975068
5th gen fighters aren't stealth all around, but as a fighter the frontal cone should have a RCS as small as possible. The Su-57 fails in that, it's better in the off-axis arc than the front itself. The YF-23 does have a danger zone below horizon and off-axis but that isn't a problem for its role.
Stealth-wise the Su-57 isn't better than the Tu-160 that also have screens on the intake ducts, not as good as the B-1B but still enough to avoid a micro-doppler easily detectable..

>>63975110
I forgot my shitty pic

>>63975059
Korea and Turkey are getting assistance by lockheed technicians. China stole design data from lockheed. Nothing to steal on the yf-23 since it all got dumpstered when it wasn't put in production.

>>63975059
Because they know even less than the US generals who chose the F22 over the F23. All they know is Lockheed, run they espionage, steal, copy, be brown & lie.

>>63975059
Because they know even less than the US generals who chose the F22. All they know is LOCKHEED, run they espionage, steal, copy, be brown & lie.

>>63973747 (OP)
>YF-23 tummy
UOOH ToT!

>>63975398
>>63975405
Good morning sir! Broken script today, huh?

>>63973797
If a high level AF official does shitty things then they can certainly be swayed by the secdef too.
> Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition and Management, Darleen Druyun, who in 2000, requested that Boeing hire her daughter and future son-in-law. Later, in 2002, Boeing's then-Chief Financial Officer Michael Sears recruited Druyun for an executive position at Boeing after her retirement.
>Druyun confessed that she gave Boeing preferential treatment on contracts in return for the employment of her daughter and son-in-law, and in the expectation of a future job for herself.
>Boeing later paid a record $615 million to resolve the government's claims in connection to this matter. Druyun was sentenced to nine months in federal prison for corruption, fined $5,000, given three years of supervised release, and 150 hours of community service.

>>63975405
>Stealth
>All those visible screws

>>63975578
You know they only made TWO of them total right? Like a mockup and then a slightly less jank mockup that flew?

>>63973747 (OP)
Lockheed should have been heavily sanctioned for scrapping its tooling.

>>63975897
> for scrapping its tooling.
Lockheed can't decide that. The government also ordered the destruction of the tooling for the Blackbird

>>63975897
They didn’t destroy it, it’s in storage. They shut the lines down after fulfilling the orders since there clearly weren’t going to be any more in the Obama era, and they needed every available hand trained on making stealth planes to build the thousands of F-35s on order. It’s one of the big cons in having both major modern fighter contracts awarded to the same prime, there’s no corporate welfare reason to keep that line open and they’re not inclined to lobby their ass off to keep building it when they have such a massive project coming up that’s taken everything they have yet they’re still behind on. It’s one of the big reasons I’m hoping F/A-XX goes to Northrop Grumman and not Boeing, it’s not good for anyone when one prime wins an entire generation of fighter contracts.

>>63974078
>What they REALLY need is a strike aircraft other than the Super Hornet. Something like an F-15E, but navalized and modern.
You mean flying dorito Navy cancelled?

>>63973797
what's it like being a retard?

>>63973859
This is the F-47 design anyway lul, yf23 chads won in the end

>>63976520
I like this design better

>>63976594
You can't do deep strikes with that.

>>63976609
yes you can, just go fast. also i have no idea what plane this is but im right and youre wrong.

>>63976618
the stupid aurora meme related to the program Isinglass and showing a Kingfish with more curves.
DoD's boomer slop

>>63975609
Both models flew.

>>63973747 (OP)
imagine being a jet thats 30 years old and still flexing mad shit on every other countries airforce in current year
only reason you see so many of them flying these days because the airframes are hitting EOL and the military is all like, hey lets just fly these at bad ass bitches at airshows before we can no longer replace the parts
like pic rel is how old that fucking jet is and other countries cant even compete. how many of these old bitches do you see rolling the streets? when is the last time you played with a n64 or fired up a windows 95 os because these 3 bitches were rolling off the assembly line at the same time as the f22

>>63973797
How do crayons and white paint chips taste?

>>63976743
Not anymore though

>>63976764
Of you think that is real you are dumber than the average subSaharan African

>>63976785
You've been living under a rock?: https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-j-36-heavy-stealth-fighter-seen-flying-for-second-time

>>63973747 (OP)

>>63974769
looks like spider eyes

>>63976743
damn, that's pristine

>>63976764
>>63976798
implessive!

>>63976813
$40k, ran when parked, wont start probably needs plugs and new gas tank
calls only no texts or emails and no calls past 7pm

I know what I got dont waste my time

>>63976743
High performance aircraft are in that weird place of being both extremely important and irrelevant to most militaries at the same time.

>>63975519
>Government bribes private company to give them money
>Government then sues the private company for even more money for giving them money

Is the US government the most jewish thing in existence?

>>63976801
>meet potential plane
>cant stick to a tense
implessive

>>63976743
>rolls up beside you 44 years ago and continues to roll up beside you until the year 2030