>drones are better than missiles because they cost 1/10 of interceptor missile cost, so even if you shoot them down you lose
>two years pass
>drone interceptors cost 1/10 of attack drone
And so when interceptor production ramps up the cycle will be complete

>>63974366 (OP)
>drones are better than missiles because they cost 1/10 of interceptor missile
Coincidentally, it takes on average +10 drones to take out a single armored vehicle.
In the case of cope-shed tanks, up to 60 of them.

>>63974366 (OP)
> ramps up the cycle will be complete
Soon. The good part of those drones is their supply chain. They are using the know how and manufacturing advances of consumer electronics with a few extras, simple 'mech mods' and a few custom sensors (like that SWIR? camera).
By comparison even the most modern AAM is using 1960s-like manufacturing with modern components.

>>63974377
> +10 drones to take out a single armored vehicle.
Because they aren't loading them with 40 rounds of HE and propellant, you can find old videos of top attack missiles doing almost nothing to a vehicle without kg of explosives inside. Ukies only stop attacking when the vehicles is completely incinerated or exploded.

>In the case of cope-shed tanks, up to 60 of them.
And in 3 months they'll need just 10 to destroy them...

>>63974377
I was talking about Shahed vs cruise missiles.
Btw 60 fpv drones still cost 4 times less than one javelin

>>63974390
>akshually javelin is very weak and pity))))
keep coping tovarish

>>63974393
>Btw 60 fpv drones still cost 4 times less than one javelin
The time it takes for those 60 drones to kill one tank is worth fare more than that one javelin missile.

>>63974366 (OP)
not true
/k/ assured me for many years that the cost of interceptors is irrelevant

>>63974485
Retard, in general a Javelin is enough for a mission kill but if you're receiving 100 drones each day then you'll keep striking a disables vehicle until it's a chuck of useless charred metal. Do you understand the difference? do you understand that against a towed artillery you'll use as many drones as you can to even avoid its reuse as parts donor but also possibility of it being reused even as a decoy?

>>63974366 (OP)
>drones are better than missiles because they cost 1/10 of interceptor missile cost, so even if you shoot them down you lose
people who say this have always been retarded, and usually they're coping for some third-world shit. victory is priceless

>>63974491
Were it driving more than 5kph and succeeded in not leading all of its occupants to their death before reaching the target, perhaps so.
Not this time, maybe next time.

>>63974517
I'm sure the tens of thousands of casualties (at an absolute minimum) caused by the inability of drones to destroy enemy vehicles in due time feel better about this hypothetical scenario you've put forth. Same for the officers losing their men due to their inability to employ effective fires on the enemy.

>>63974505
>victory is priceless
>blows stockpile of shells on proxy war
>nothing happens
The look on your face will be priceless-er

>>63974366 (OP)
When will people realize that drones are literally just cruise missiles?

>>63974492
Which they are. Because im gonna keep pumping them out no matter the cost

>>63974505
I’ve noticed that such posts always come from people that live in countries that were never under missiles or drone attacks, ever

why not use drones to take out drones then?

>>63974597
What do you mean? It’s literally happening as we speak

>>63974517
If the russians had had enough fuel during the initial push then all the fpv drones in the world at that time wouldn't have stopped them. Javelin and NLAW did. That's the purpose of those high end missiles. The stop a concentrated armored assault without risking your own armor at the same time.

>>63974563
>nothing happens
true

>>63974601
so what's OP's point then?

>>63974602
>fpv drones in the world at that time wouldn't have stopped them.
They didn't have a production line for FPVs at that time, disingenuous retard.
>inb4 b-but it's an hypothetical
You just don't know.
>inb4 EW
Ok...

>>63974603
I'm a THD moderate
as long as the war continues I think that's a W

>>63974602
> If the russians had had enough fuel during the initial push then all the fpv drones in the world at that time wouldn't have stopped them.
So hundreds of vehicles in Avduivka couldn’t cross 5km drive without 99% losses but they’d be able to push to Kyiv. If Ukraine had developed fpv drones at the start of the war it would be even bigger slaughter

>>63974619
>I'm a subhuman brownoid
we know

>>63974523
>by the inability of drones to destroy enemy vehicles in due time
Blyat barns aren't stealthy, nor fast, anon. They're detected kilometers behind lines before they're even able to approach the grey zone (like most vehicles), and that's very true of this case. The first dozens of drone hits occurred while it was still within Russian lines, eventually 'terminating' within the grey zone. It should be noted this one was joined by a twin-barn, so this was a grouping of 2 actually. And they were effectively "stopped in time", on this occasion.

The real danger to be acknowledged from this event is that an unusually large convoy of Blyat barns (6+) could lead to tactical positioning losses over the areas drone companies are more-or-less defending alone, which is the UKR MoD's current direction for defense over areas it cannot staff with as many bodies as it traditionally would.

From that the lesson is that usual limitation of FPV drones, payload size, needs to be ameliorated. And the Ukrainians are also aware of that, which is why you see UGVs with heavy payloads increasingly present. Some professionally constructed, some bespoke "rolling stack of mines", all adequate solutions to deal with the issue given barns lack optics, maneuverability, and interception capabilities.

>>63974602
>if Russian concentrated armor and pushed, they'd win
yeah(?)

>>63974494
Do you think those 100 drones a day are just going to one specific area of the Frontline so that they can deal with a single tank?

>>63974366 (OP)
>>drones are better than missiles because they cost 1/10 of interceptor missile cost, so even if you shoot them down you lose

Not when my funds are 100x my enemy's lol. Only countries that struggle to afford weapons have to worry about affordability of weapons.

>>63974619
>fagner

>>63974633
No, but most days nothing happens, if there's a tank (a rare specimen in current year) you'll not stop until complete destruction of vehicles and TZD of the infantry, you'll use a lot of FPVs, especially if the tank isn't loaded with explosives.

>>63974619
saddest part about you faggots is that you disappear completely every time russia shits it's pants. so it's safe to assume you'd be nowhere to be seen when this whole thing ends and russia collapses.
oh well though, we'll celebrate it without you.

>>63974642
Even America doesn’t have enough interceptors. So who are you in this case?

>>63974619
then you're probably pretty retarded, since all that's happening is TZD.

Fun fact: Russia controls LESS Ukrainian territory than 2 years ago.

>>63974377
And other idiotic vodka fantasies moskals keep mumbling to themselves.

>>63974632
>Blyat barns aren't stealthy, nor fast, anon.
Don't need to be. Operational tempo is not dependent on stealth or real speed. It's dependent on a continuous movement forward that dislodges and discombobulates the enemy to a degree where he can not adequately react and prepare against your actions, leading you inside his OODA loop and giving you a distinct operational advantage, which naturally also leads to a tactical advantage.
FPV drones are simply inadequate weapon systems in this context. They are not capable of stopping enemy maneuvers or offensives at a rate that is required for maintaining tempo or keeping the initiative away from the hands of the enemy. The success of FPV drones is an anomaly caused by Russian inferiority and inability to improvise, adapt and overcome to an adequate degree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inRnZGTAlvM

>>63974701
These are numbers from Ukrainian officers themselves.

Like talking to a wall.

>>63974659
America isn't even playing the same game. Attritional casualties from drone attacks is the kind of thing you only have to worry about in protracted land warfare. The cool thing about having hundreds of stealth aircraft and a million JDAMs is that you don't have to wage protracted land warfare.

>>63974737
Russia's tempo is negative. What kind of krokodil are you on?

>>63974759
How would you have felt today if you hadn't had breakfast?

>>63974648
You actually think Russia is going to collapse because of Ukraine?

>>63974797
russia is going to collapse because it's unsustainable shithole just like soviet union
>you think ussr is going to collapse because of afghanistan?

>>63974683
sometimes I think about what you guys are gonna do when Russia beats Ukraine

>>63974806
What about it is unsustainable? I mean actually.

>>63974809
do we have a timeline on that? maybe 14 days from now? perhaps July 26?

>>63974809

>>63974813
just apply ussr formula but divide it by 3 at least

>>63974813
The economy or lack thereof, the collapsing demographics, the lack of international commerce, the brain drain, their lack of military production and reliance on soviet stockpile. Take your pick, pidoras.

>>63974813
Russia is squeezing its economy completely dry to sustain this failure of a war. The governor of Russia's central bank is publicly stating that they're running on empty, supposed financial giants like Gazprom are failing to turn a profit (can you imagine, an oil/gas company of that size being financially unviable lmao) and Russia has no way to replace its loss of Soviet legacy capabilities.

>>63974659
You don't need interceptor when you can air strike wherever the drones are coming from with impunity.

>>63974659
America isn't producing enough interceptor because it doesn't need them at the moment anon not because the military can't afford it.

>>63974813
Oil and gas down, coal literally in negative, agriculture in giant troubles(wheat lost 25% yield per hectare ), potatoe shortages, railways down 10% yoy, airlines losing billions of roubles every time Ukrainian drones bomb Moscow(that happens every few days), shortages of working men, they needed to slash soldier bonuses which led to drop in recruitment numbers ,only 100 million dollars investment in 2024 from outside Russia, wage debt tripled in single year, they just changed laws to allow government to steal anything that was privatised and they started harvesting still profitable companies.
It’s hard to find what’s not falling apart in Russia

>>63974834
>Economy
Green lines only matter to fake economies and credit slaves
>Demographics
AFAIK demographics are fine, the muslims there are native unlike the Somalians imported en masse by Western Europe
>International commerce
Russia produces almost everything in Russia, they don't need (much) foreign commerce and what they do need can be pulled from China
>Brain drain
I'm unfamiliar with this issue insofar as Russia is concerned but I'm open to it being a genuine problem
>lack of military production
Hard disagree. They've been pumping out T-90Ms for the past couple years and have heavily improved from the equipment shortages found earlier in the war (which were partially because of logistics, which has also been improved)

>>63974970
>when Muslim beheads you but it’s fine because he’s native muslim

>>63974809
Imagine being such an amazing easy to fuck with contrarian loser that you STILL wholeheartedly believe this in 2025.
I bet you watch ads to their conclusion as well, you seem super easy to manipulate.

>>63974970
>g-green lines
>r-russian economy is just magic actually and doesn’t care about the laws of physics and the rules of supply and demand
Strong cope to start off with, mindfucked subverted moron.
>t-the mudslimes are native
>actually being the most mutted country in europe is good really
WEW LAD
>russia produces almost everything in russia
Then why so many of the things they need impossible to get then?
>d-don’t worry we’ll just let our remaining domestic brands get murderfucked by chinese markets
LOL
This is gigahypercope, russia has a terrible industry and this is a well-known fact, they haven’t built anything truly new since the collapse of the USSR aside from designs that were dreamt up during the USSR.

>>63974970
>they’ve been pumping out T-90M’s
In other words, they’ve been putting T-90 turrets onto T72 hulls (and also without any of the french tech that made them any good) and refurbishing them since russia is incapable of producing new tanks in large numbers.

>>63974990
>at least he's a native mus- arghagahglaghalgha

>>63974377
60 FPV drones to take out a tank is still a good trade.

>>63974970
>They've been pumping out T-90Ms for the past couple yea
May we see these T-90Ms? Or are they "being held in reserve"?
>have heavily improved from the equipment shortages found earlier in the war
Begging for North Korean handouts while simultaneously being solely responsible for things like donkey logistics, motor bike attacks, turtle tanks, etc. are all signs to a severely degraded military industry from what was already a heavily lacking military production industry in anything that was needed. Need I remind you that Russia STEALS TRAFFIC CAMERAS AND WASHERS FOR USE ON MILITARY HARDWARE FROM FOREIGN NATIONS

>>63974377
>In the case of cope-shed tanks, up to 60 of them.
Wasn't that particular number solely needed for the Giga-Turtle tank that was recently shown off? I doubt that 60, or any number close to it, is the average number of drones needed to completely render a vehicle destroyed/inoperable

>>63975122
>Wasn't that particular number solely needed for the Giga-Turtle tank that was recently shown off?
Yes, but like I said, the average number is +10. ~3/4 drones never make it to their target due to electronic warfare. It takes multiple hits on average to disable a vehicle and even more to destroy it.
When you consider that all of these drones have to be individually piloted, take a bunch of time to get on target and so forth, it leaves these FPV drones as an extremely ineffective weapon system against armored vehicles.

>>63974377
>Ukrainian says it took 60 drones to take out a megashedtank in one particular instance
>60 drone to get 1 kill repeated nonstop

>>63975147
That is what
>up to 60
means.

>>63975145
Vehicles stop moving many drones before being completely destroyed. They have hours to finish a disabled tank.

>>63975152
Anon, a singular example out of a sample of thousands does not make "up to 60". And even then, that singular example was an extreme case that will be most likely 1 out of every 1000 turtle tanks if that

>>63975162
>Anon, a singular example out of a sample of thousands does not make "up to 60"
That is exactly what it does.

>>63975167
It isn't a fat tail, it doesn't move the average, up to is a meaningless expression.

>>63975173
It takes up to 60 FPV drones to destroy a cope shed tank. This is a truthful statement that you for some reason are incapable of understanding.

>>63975201
I think anons point is that the 60 is a major statistical outlier, but when you present it as the sole number without further context it tends to imply it to fall within a more normal spread
>its technically correct
Yes I know

>>63975201
>can't understand the difference between disabled/immobilized and 'destroyed'
69iq

>>63975219
>>can't understand the difference between disabled/immobilized and 'destroyed'
>wants to generalize a one-in-10,000 example and ignore the adaptability of the other side
*
69iq

>>63975201
>>can't understand the difference between disabled/immobilized and 'destroyed'
>wants to generalize a one-in-10,000 example and ignore the adaptability of the other side
69iq

PS. f t s

I'm horny for MBTs with 50mm autoguns blasting fat shrapnel into the sky to plink drones.
I also want to see a world where a tanks got 4-8 shitty little fiberoptic quad drones docked atop it that can get shit out to spear a loitering grenade dropper or intercept a FPV

>>63975156
>Vehicles stop moving many drones before being completely destroyed. They have hours to finish a disabled tank.
They actually expended only 3 drones and a mine to stop it.
The rest was to kill it.

>>63975257
>I'm horny for MBTs with 50mm autoguns blasting fat shrapnel into the sky to plink drones
Skynex is 35mm and is excellent for the purpose, you can save some weight and carry much more ammo.

>>63975113
The T-90Ms are in the field. You can literally see them being fielded.

>>63975000
hohol goes ack <333

>>63975015
You don't need to let your anger bleed through the screen. Take a break, drink some water.

>>63974970
>Green lines only matter to fake economies and credit slaves
This. Juche spirit will fill our bellies.

>>63974970
>Russia produces almost everything in Russia
bruh

>>63974390
>old videos of top attack missiles doing almost nothing to a vehicle

could you find one of those vids pls? cause we have lots of footage of javelins obliterating t72s

>>63974737
>word salad
Blyat barns lacking speed, stealth, maneuverability, and meaningful numbers have proven unable to dislodge Ukrainian positions. Were they actually a successful evolution of armor then they'd be factory-provided products, nearly 4 years on, as opposed to field modification abominations.
>>63974765
your krokodil intake isn't breakfast by the way

>>63975721
Against a T-72 or T-80 full of ammo the result is well known but you can find things like:
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1702/79/1702798163604.webm
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1684/59/1684596808195.webm

Probably disabled and abandoned seconds afterward but not picrel "level of disabled". Early during the war the most common use of drones was completely destroy abandoned vehicles.

This kind of videos is too short to say something
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1683/67/1683672434887.webm

The Javelin can hit and is reliable but most of its "hard kills" are unrelated to its warhead, it's self-inflicted damage related to soviet design. This vehicle probably burned down minutes afterwards but if it doesn't burns down is still mechanically reusable
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1674/75/1674759282724.webm
Same with this one.
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1660/29/1660292586635.webm


This level of destruction is unrelated to the warhead but the bad ammo safety inside. A western tank wouldn't end like that after being penetrated (ie from the side)
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1669/59/1669594034491.webm

>>63975795
And another example
https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/k/image/1648/70/1648705239392.webm
That vehicle needs to be finished.

For towed artillery that problem is even more usual because the propellant and shells aren't in a closed metal coffin with the gun.

>>63974970
>the muslims there are native
Tatars - yes, they are truly "native muslims": been a part of russia for ages, mostly russified culturally and ethnically, religion is an afterthought/formality.
Then there are caucasus muslims - questionable "nativity": bloody struggle since first contact with russia with short breaks, now a privileged class in a country that "defeated" them only two decades ago.
And finally, central asian ones, tajikistan primarily - conqured by russian empire by the end of 19th century, reconquered by ussr shortly after, mostly left to their own devices during soviet times "do whatever, just keep it peaceful and supply us with cotton"(ineligible for draft in WW2 for "untrustworthiness" btw), and that's who mostly migrates to and breeds in russia - people of former briefly-almost-colonies, who barely know a word or two in russian, attracted by greater job/crime/gibs opportunities and religious "freedoms"(hijab for example is banned in ex-soviet -stans, while it's "who gives a fuck" even about full face cover in russia; together with much less strict control over muslim preaching) compared to home country. That's exactly the same thing as what you complain about, except they aren't as brown in color of their skin.

>>63974809

>anime pictures xhe commissioned off some poor artist

It smells like /chug/ in here. By the way, I don't know if you have ever had the misfortune of seeing one of their threads, but it's nothing but off-topic anime posting. They have nothing worth talking about, because they know that things are grim. Grim for them, grim outlook for this war, and grim for Russia's future. Ukraine could surrender tomorrow and Russia would still be turbofucked, because they've ravaged their army against the poorest country in Europe, NATO has expanded and is rearming, they have alienated a bunch of former trading partners, they lost several neo-satellites, and their economy is in shambles. And don't forget: the west won't send aid like they did in the 90s.

>>63974970
holy mother of cope batman

>>63974366 (OP)
>And so when interceptor production ramps up the cycle will be complete
you just use cheap jet engines on the cheap drones to push them to 500-600 km/h. then it starts all over again.

>>63974393
Can missile take out barn tank?

>>63974737
>boomer doesn't play videogames and doesn't know concept of kitin
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv
Mind you then Ukraine had zero FPV drones with AT warheads

>>63974806
That is leftists talking points you are parroting. USSR collapsed because communism. Modern leftists doesn't know how bad communism is in practice.
Modern Russia has no communism that drags everything down like in USSR.

>>63976570
nice link

>>63974882
You underestimating resilience of dedicated and tightly controlled state. Look at Ukraine, it everything 10 times worth, Ukraine is still standing. It's a long long way before people can't afford to boy food slop that really starts shaking foundations and Russia nowhere near that. Discomfort wouldn't affect Russian state it has absolute political power all opposition is eliminated.

>>63975145
In Desert Storm Americans spent 10000 sabots to knock out 2000 Iraqi tanks .

it leaves these Depleted Uranium sabots as an extremely ineffective weapon system against armored vehicles.

>>63975147
Nobody said 60 except zegros. Now they pass it as truth.

>>63974366 (OP)
>cycle will be complete
Oh my sweet summer child.
The next step is counter-interceptor microdrones attached to the main drone like a mothership.

>>63975869
The artist is a zigger and he does it for free <3

>>63975394
Puccian goes SQUISH!

>>63976671
I'm afraid I don't have the gif of the gigachad in the hanging NAFO helicopter but imagine that in your head for me. Oh wait.

>>63974580
we should just keep using SM3s to shoot down Shasneeds then

>>63976695
Bold of you to assume I am a communist or denazifier

>>63974563
>blows stockpile of shells on proxy war
>Europe ramps up shell production to 3 million a year
Lol lmao
It's funny to me how smug you cunts are while sitting in a burning house.

>>63976599
> It's a long long way before people can't afford to boy food slop that really starts shaking foundations and Russia nowhere near that
It doesn’t matter if they can afford food if bank run starts

>>63974577
I want to watch a tomahawk scalp a tank.

>>63976712
It's funnier how smug you are. What's Europe gonna do? Shell us? Macron won't do shit. I double-dog dare him to put boots on the ground, he won't. If he does then put me in the screencap.

>>63976724
>what’s Europe gonna do
Finance your death

>>63976727
How'd you find this picture of me?

>>63976731
>General Crackfiend
This retard is worse than Russian generals the way he draws lines on maps over minefields as if a positive outlook negates the killbox you're driving into. What has he even done except jerk off on a map of Kursk?

>>63976739
Overseen production of long-range German-Ukrainian missiles

>>63976744
So he does nothing and gets a paycheck for it? No wonder you love him so much, he's living the dream.

>>63976748
He’s not Russian air defense cuckold that will be just watching as those missiles hit their targets

>>63974797
Russian collapse is inevitable. Literally every single marker of civil war is being hit. There's private armies being kept from the main war even. Why do you think someone raises a private force during a war, ostensibly for that war and then doesn't send it to that war?
That's right, they're considering the possibilities of what they can do with that private army -after- the war is over. It's going to be a colossally brutal civil war scrum and I am here for that. And I hope nobody here in the West accepts any Russian nigger refugees.

>>63976724
Isn't Azerbaijan of all places cucking Russia out? Didn't they just parade a bunch of FSB agents they literally kicked the shit out of on TV? That's literally your new boyar class that Putin set up being treated like that. And Russia just... takes it.
Imagine being cucked by Azerbaijan lol. Couldn't be me.

>>63976724
being smug comes with being superior

>>63976724
>What's Europe gonna do?
Eat croissants, drink coffee and watch my tax money kill a thousand Russians a day and collapse the most vile country the world's ever seen?

>>63976885
don't forget taking 3 weeks of paid vacation straight because watching russians die is hard work

>>63975394
>h-hohol g-goes ack
>if i make enough infantile noises the total zigger nigger death will go away!
kek

>>63976724
you only get to be smug when you're actually superior, subhuman.
you get all angry and indignated when we're smug, but the difference is we're smug for a good reason and you're *pretend* smug to cope with your daily struggles and the fact that you're a contrarian failure.

>>63975145
all the drone needs to do is drop a mine directly in the tanks path and its disabled.

>>63976724
Winners get to be smug. It's one of the perks. You'd understand that if Russians ever won anything.

>>63976891
I need a week's holiday to recover from the holiday. It's a rough life you know, but we persevere.

>>63975289
50mm supershot round is 35mm sized. Weight isn't issue for heavy AFV

>>63976721
in 2022 Russian state literally banned Russians from buying foreign currency and bringing more than $10000 worse (if they already owned them) out of country. Bank run canceled. If possibility rises again they can pull out same trick again.

>>63974366 (OP)
the major drawback of interceptor drones is that they need human pilots, which means they're rate limited

>>63975289
the improved HE-frag performance of 50mm over 35mm is a function of pi, bigger diameter will always be greatly better for anything involving bursting charges

>>63977032
that being said, weight and size of machinery IS important, because you shouldn't be looking at the weapon as a proportion of the total weight of the AFV, but of the usable payload

>>63977042
capital controls are only stopgaps that actually punish everyone holding rubles or producing cheap goods and services until the overall economy stabilises and gets better
if the economy NEVER gets better, it's a slightly faster death

>>63975093
It's not. Each FPV team can only operate a single attack at the same time, they've got a turnaround time of 15 minutes or so. Assuming you've got one team covering each company at the front and each company has 1km of frontage to cover, even if the shed takes half an hour to roll up to the Ukrainian forward positions, you'd need to focus all the drones in a 30km sector of the front to take one out before it gets there, which is more than the range of most of these analog RF ones.

>>63974366 (OP)
would someone be so kind a post the video of that intercept?

>>63975093
>>63975147
>>63974517
>>63974393
>60 fpv drones still cost 4 times less than one javelin
the reason why the Russians can still make (tiny) advances is because they're overwhelming Ukrainian fire support, i.e. the Ukrainians can't kill their mobiks and cope sheds fast enough
so yes, it damn well matters and you are doing the Ukrainians a disservice by assuming that they're doing just dandy

which I suspect is what Russian disinformation is now trying to do

>>63976647
>Nobody said 60 except zegros
Uke commanders said 40-50 months ago, dumbass

>>63976647
the 60 drones to kill the latest turtle tanks thing comes from the Ukrainians themselves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzKQsnU4cbA

The cost of the munitions themselves isn't the issue. If Russia is able to arrange enough of these attacks and enough of them work, they may or may not recoup their money's worth in terms of tactical gains.

>>63977065
>reiterated they needed artillery
that's really the crux of the issue here. turtle tanks are only possible because Ukraine can't cluster the fuck out of them after pretty much entirely depleting their reserves of tubes and shells.

many of the tactical developments we've seen since mid 2023 would not have been possible before. compare footage from the first year of the war to now, even the Ukrainians are dumping a fuckload of shells down range whereas now both sides primarily rely on FPVs, drone drops and glide bombs for tactical fires by the looks of it

>>63977054
> Each FPV team can only operate a single attack at the same time
Every operator can operate one fpv drone, as many drones can operate as there are open channels
> you'd need to focus all the drones in a 30km sector of the front to take one out before it gets there
Ah, retard with video game brain who thinks tank can move until it’s destroyed. Newsflash most tanks get disabled much faster than they are completely destroyed

>>63974366 (OP)
>>drone interceptors cost 1/10 of attack drone
Source?

>>63977065
>Uke commanders said 40-50 months ago, dumbass
wow the inflation is out of control

>>63977074
People are seeing the "Ukraine spent 60 drones on 1 tank" and zomg basedfacing;
it's the first time they've seen such a vehicle, the vehicle was LITERALLY ALREADY DISABLED, what they were doing with the drones was probing its weaknesses and gaining as much information on them as possible.
So yeah, it took sixty drones, but tomorrow it might take twenty drones, and the day after that, fifteen. This is quite literally an arms race.

>>63977065
>40-50 months ago
>50 months ago
>the war started May 2021

>>63977189
They probably cost even more

>>63977196
>>63977223
*40-50 drones per tank kill, several months ago

>>63977065
They would be doing 100x worse if they were using javelins. Javelin teams get deleted by FPV drones hours before they see any tank.
Beyond line of sight weapons are a critical necessity of modern warfare.

>>63977046
>need
Certainly not. Automatic guidance missiles were first fielded in the 1950's. An automatic guidance system is incredibly easy with modern electronics.
Human piloted air intercept drones are a stop gap solution.

>>63977766
The only reason drones are hard to counter is due the human exploiting any weak point of the target, or making a weak point for the next drone, a "automatic guided munition" that only can home in the target is far less useful and probably needs of the original engineers to retrain it for a new thread, the adaptation loop is so slow that it can't do much...
FPVs are tiny in general, and the warhead is 5-10 times smaller than the warhead of a normal ATGM like Javelin, TOW

>>63974970
>the muslims there are native
I thought Pussisia is trad and le based and saywur of white rice

>>63977756
hear me out: what if drone, but with nlaw or javelin launcher duct taped to bottom.

>>63977756
>They would be doing 100x worse if they were using javelins
>source: my ass

>>63977741
yeah and several months later it already costs 60
this economy is crazy!

>>63977774
think how much the uki database on the drone usage must be worth, priceless for training autonomous swarms
I wonder if amerigolems have full access

>>63978396
>I wonder if amerigolems have full access
They probably get access to most systems, including licensing for long range drones (some american companies used ukrainian designs for competitions in the US).
The question is if they're gonna use or just archiving it. China probably is getting a lot of video from russia.

>>63978365
I'm not the guy who said "60", because the figure I read (from RUSI interviews) was 40 to 50

that said: how would you know that counter-UAS developments have not inflicted such attritional "inflation"? you think they needed 40 to 50 drones per tank kill in 2022?

>>63978396
>I wonder if amerigolems have full access
Have to pay moneys

>>63977065
>the reason why the Russians can still make (tiny) advances is because they're overwhelming Ukrainian fire support, i.e. the Ukrainians can't kill their mobiks and cope sheds fast enough
got it, will go donate more

>>63976653
they would have to be autonomous to avoid jamming in the case of a Shaheed, its not like you can use ins for those like these makeshift cruise missile drones. More likely is a larger proportion of even cheaper decoys or possibly counter jamming

>>63977774
We are talking about air intercepts.
You can't "adapt" your rc airplane tier foam plane against a 2kg quadcopter smashing into it at 200kmh which happens to also be the perfect application for automatic homing.

>>63978107
Damn that would be crazy

>>63978466
yes
we should be giving them lots of 155mm howitzers, in particular
which is why, as I said, I suspect a lot of the dronefaggotry around here might well be vatniks trying to push the "FPV is fine" myth