Why Russia has not yet conducted proper SEAD/DEAD against Ukrainian IADS yet? Is It incompetence or lack of proper dedicated SEAD/DEAD doctrine and air assets?

>>63995022 (OP)
They can't
Shameless self-fpbp

>>63995031
FpBp

It’s been a non issue since the opening day of the operation.

>>63995022 (OP)
they literally move them every day kinda hard to do sead like this
plus the production of kh 58 stopped during the peak of the soviet empire so i doubt they have any left

>>63995022 (OP)
>Why Russia has not yet conducted proper SEAD/DEAD
against what??
with what??

ukrainian air defense is, for the most part, vastly superior to russias flying shitboxes
e.g.
IRIS-T SLM has a 100% success rate against anything Russia flies (in Ukraine)
HAWK missile are at 85%
even their 180? S-300 work just fine

and then there's AIM-120 or R-27 etc.
the latter one has multiple confirmed hits on both sides

as long as Ukraine doesn't waste / runs out of missiles
their air defense will stay just fine
and you can see this yourself when you look at russian flight paths
they obediently stay out of range of Ukrainian systems / range and just launch their cruise missiles

>>63995022 (OP)
the VKS is the sole arm of the Russian military that the Russian MoD has been genuinely protective of and concerned of taking losses to

the aircraft are legitimately irreplaceable at this point, there aren't enough trained pilots to waste like they do infantry and support personnel, and the Kremlin has spent years planning some sort of ambiguous, just barely plausibly deniable gray zone confrontation with NATO to undermine Article 5 - and they will need the VKS intact for this. they can't count on Trump's wishywashy approach to Article 5, especially after he is gone, and while the VKS wouldn't be able to stop the US from pushing their shit in it would shift their calculations a bit on committing to full hostilities if the initial gray zone action is limited enough.

they just released a video of hitting a s-300 system.

they seem to prefer using drones to spot sam systems and then using guided munitions or drones to take them out. but, ukraine said several systems were lost to kh-31s, which are fighter launched.

>>63995022 (OP)
>incompetence or lack of proper dedicated SEAD/DEAD doctrine and air assets?
Both, one begets the other.

>>63995082
>VKS
BBC POCCU

>>63995083
>prefer using drones to spot sam systems and then using guided munitions or drones to take them out
because they can't get close enough otherwise
and drone saturation attacks are a real thing
Ukraine is, understandably, hesitant wasting 200-500k missiles on a 50k drone
that's why the Skynex system and the successful first defenses are such a huge deal

>ukraine said several systems were lost to kh-31s
wasn't that at the "beginning" of the war?
haven heard of anything in 2024 or 25

>>63995145
funnily, israel seems to do what russia does. use drones or sats to spot systems, then drop albms on them from stand-off range (drones or asymmetrical means otherwise). it's probably the best way to do it without exposing your own assets to return fire.

the traditional method of arms and bombs seems far too dangerous, even if you have a large fleet of birds.

The correct answer is too boring for /a/ but it’s the only correct one: Russia’s military lacks the organizational capability to conduct SEAD. To do even a minimalist SEAD operation, like Wild Weasel, you need a strong, mature and effective officer corps to run all the required gears of a complex operational machine for a significant period of time. All the Russian Air Force is capable of doing is running glide-bomb release sorties: move the bombs, program the bombs, take off, release the bombs, do whatever maintenance is required to keep the airframes flyable, and do it again tomorrow. To do even Wild Weasil is infinitely more complex from an end-to-end operational standpoint. The huge amount of training, organization and integration of many air wings’ synchronized flight ops, hugely increased maintenance demands and all the manpower and logistics burdens that has by itself, all being orchestrated by a command staff who can effectively control all the pieces from a central location over the weeks / months of time setting up and executing the operation while gathering high-quality data and being able to quickly tweak the operation as needed. That is absurdly outside the capability of Russia’s military organization. The technology is the LEAST issue.

>>63995189
Why do westoids come up with the most spastic names for things?

>>63995194
It’s an IQ thing, you wouldn’t understand.

>>63995189
They don't even have a dedicated EW aircraft for SEAD. There were supposedly plants of making a dedicated Su-34 for this role, but never materialised.

>>63995022 (OP)
>Ukrainian AD is very good with multiple modern western systems and experienced crews.
>SEAD/DEAD is a special mission set and requires special training. Russia never really did that. Arguably America is the only nation that is actually good at it. You could count Israel too depending on how high you rated Iranian AD.
>Russia has a hard time replacing aircraft losses so they are risk adverse. And unwilling to commit the forces required to win the air battle over Ukraine.

>>63995071
>they literally move them every day kinda hard to do sead like this
Curious how the degenerate West can do this yet based and trad Russia can't!

>>63995194
They're just temporary code names for operations that make it into the public consciousness after the operations get revealed and people think it's cool to sound military so they repeat it

>>63995083
>they just released a video of hitting a s-300 system
another jumpcut into a blurry pixel mess?

>>63995194
Why do slavshits name their schools and projects something soulless and oppressive like "operation 112" or "School 89172"?

>>63995284
SEAD is a specialist mission. Both the USAF and Navy have pilots specialize in Wild Weasel and Iron Hand, their respective terms for it. It requires extra flight hours on top of a program that already has relatively high annual flight hours. That means higher maintenance costs on aircraft. Expended munitions in training and paying your pilots and ground crew. Even in the Soviet era their pilots flew less and trained less than the west. They especially do today. Russia just doesn't spend enough on air power to afford the luxury of competent SEAD/DEAD. Also both of those are different things even though they are usually paired. SEAD is temporarily suppressing local AD to open a corridor for a strike package to safely conduct its mission. DEAD is a coordinated and methodical campaign of dismantling your opponents IADS to permit air dominance. In western doctrine, SEAD is used early in an air campaign to permit the start of DEAD as a part of the larger goal to gain the skies and destroy the enemies command and control. ODS is the textbook example.
>captcha
>SAM4A

>>63995022 (OP)
Yes to both plus a historical lack of pilots.

>>63995189
*guided bombs
hate this slav term being used

>>63995450
Glide bomb and guided bomb are both valid terms. Glide bombs shouldn't be a threat to an active and competent AD system but they've worked before. And they are cheap enough you can sling them at a system to saturate it.

>>63995194
It's called being literate.

>>63995022 (OP)
They cant because they suck shit and they realistically left it too late
They should have used as many air assets as they could day one, and not stopped for weeks
They lost any hope to shock and awe from above because they thought they could just roll in troops as peacekeepers day one, 0 respect for their enemies capabilities
They would have suffered badly if they attempted a proper opening SEAD/DEAD campaign, and it may not have worked with their limited air capabilites and Ukrainians AA assets, but not doing it has landed them in this mess
As always, just look at this
https://youtu.be/Atm8D5uqr-k?si=YrqZzwGfRC8cfgaA
This is incredibly well studied by every single nation with any military clout on earth, and they didn't even attempt to replicate it, for that they reap what they sow

>>63995022 (OP)
https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/rusi-defence-systems/russian-air-force-actually-incapable-complex-air-operations
from all the way back in 2022
you can start reading from
>The Only Currently Viable Explanation

>>63995031
Fpbp
>>63995551
Explains why.

I haven't seen a J-20 without EOTS in like a decade, are the early prototypes still flying?

>>63995194
Militaries have their own jargon and it's just a little bit of that. If you want a full load of it, listen to this:
https://youtu.be/DseIm4YUW6U

Russia's problem is they are incapable of conducting SEAD from multiple domains to exploit advantages that lead to mission accomplishment across the competition continuum.

>>63995022 (OP)
>Russia has not yet conducted proper SEAD/DEAD
You should check what avionics, pods and data links they have, tl;dr they're stuck in the 1970 but with better individual components.
They can't auto-generate accurate GLONASS coordinates in real time by just using an optical pod.
They can't have a map updated in real time using the data link. So good luck trying to receive info of locations, types, etc from the ground, or other aircrafts.
Obviously they can't see where's their own people and the enemies for the same reason, hopefully the target isn't a civilian tractor or a friendly SAM without IFF for whatever reason.
etc.
It's like having a lot of tools but they just throw them in a bin, along the screws, nails, dirt and trash.

>>63995022 (OP)
They are stupid and simply lack the experience, knowhow and the platforms to do it. Most importantly, they lack accurate intel on their targets because they are going off soviet maps and whims because GLONAS is a piece of shit.
>>63995031
fpbp

>>63995649
That is something the US military solved 30 years ago with the "network-centric warfare" era. You can still make it work without all of that. ODS wasn't all that networked. But you need a lot of trained staff to aggregate the data into actionable intel quickly. And then get it into taskings. And the Russians dont have that either.

>>63995189
Basically. this.
Soviet military thinking in general kinda stagnated in the mid 70s and hasent been updated since. that goes for the Soviet and then Russian airforces as well.
Marshal Ograkov kinda woke up and smelled the coffee with his revolution in military affairs but he was purged before he could do anything about it.
so they never did embrace similar concepts to air-land battle and the whole revolution of PGMs. Sure, they build their own, but mostly in small numbers just to say "we have those as well". Case and point, they lost a Tu-22 in the 2008 war after it went down low for a run with dumb bombs. and in the year of monke 3 day special operation +3 they still havent fielded a single targeting pod on any of their aircraft.

>>63995189
>/a/

>>63995731
Everyone knows the chairforce has the most weebs.

>>63995022 (OP)
Ukraine has like a hundred S-300 batteries.

>>63995731
Panty and Stocking is back, so lolcows must switch rapidly between boards and get them mixed up sometimes.

>>63995022 (OP)
Because they are retarded steppe niggers who can't do anything right

>>63995022 (OP)
chinkposters turning on ziggers now? as if your air force is any better. name a single SEAD campaign china has ever performed
why are there so many retards here who sincerely engage with bait posts like this

>>63995022 (OP)
>Why Russia has not yet conducted proper SEAD/DEAD against Ukrainian IADS yet?
because Russia is a lie. An economic disaster and zone of tyranny corruption and incompetence that like sto tell is slave peon po;ulation it is a mights military power in an exestential battel with teh forces of darkness when its just a shit hole trying to loot a smaller neighbour that threatened the world and Europe for five years with its supposed military might, which was all a lie, like everything else that comes out of the mouths of Russians....

What made you think Russia could EVER do what advanced western nations do? It tried to hire the French to make infantry kit and built ships until the French realised that Putin was just another corrupt and belligerent Russian dictator.

God Bless Ukraine for standing up to this Russian madness that has been a curse for 70 years.

>>63995051
That's why they don't cross the border and lob cruise missiles from the safety of their own airspace

>>63995106
BBC POC CNN

>>63995074
HAWK is at 85%? Damn. That shit is old as fuck.

>>63997235
So is the VKS

>>63997009
SINCE FUCKING WWII!!! AFTER WE SAVED THEM!!!

>>63995022 (OP)
SEAD is hard, Russians are dumb.

>>63997235
>That shit is old as fuck.
It's big and powerful, and that's what matters. It's not like they're trying to shoot down F-35s there. Remember that S-200 was one of the best performers, because of its fucked up huge range.

>>63997235
>HAWK is at 85%? Damn. That shit is old as fuck
i think they run MIM-23 K,J,M or L variants
which are all produced post 1994
so kinda old
but not Soviet stockpile old

most of Russian fighters are MiG-29/35 or Su-27/30/35
and only the Su-35 is newer than the HAWK missiles Ukraine has

Russia prefers SEED/FEED to SEAD/DEAD

>>63997343
Arguably since the Crimean War. The guy in the Kremlin changes, sometimes having better intentions than others, but the Russian stays the same.

>>63995022 (OP)
>Why Russia has not yet conducted proper SEAD/DEAD against Ukrainian IADS yet? Is It incompetence or lack of proper dedicated SEAD/DEAD doctrine and air assets?
Yes. Think of it like this: the US armed forces are SNEED experts because they invested heavily in SNEED, they invested heavily in SNEED because they rely heavily on air power, they invested in air power because it's the most efficient method of force projection and they have as much force projection as they do because they routinely get tangled up in shit literally halfway around the world. Russia sucks at SNEED because they didn't invest in it because they didn't rely as much on air power because their force projection was good enough to menace Europe and their vassals because that was all they needed. It's also expensive and specialized and Russia is poor and incompetent.

tl;dr Russia can't SNEED because they're poor and incompetent and inherited an antiquated doctrine and infrastructure and haven't reformed it.

>>64001197
>Arguably since the Crimean War. The guy in the Kremlin changes, sometimes having better intentions than others, but the Russian stays the same.
Russia has a long and illustrious history of dropping the ball. Starting around that time frame you mentioned (the pattern goes back way farther), in the latter 19th century, Russia made massive improvements in many areas of their society - public education programs, expansion of rail infrastrucure, serfdom abolished for good, traction engines, etc. - and then it ground to a halt in the early 20th century and the Soviets completely fucked everything up. Then after about four or five excruciating decades the quality of life in the USSR saw another period of improvement only for the whole thing to go ass over teakettle following the fall of the USSR as their economy was raped to death by a level of corruption and internal economic predation that would make an African warlord blush.

It's breathtaking, honestly.

>>63996977
Is this good? I like the art style, looks very western inspired

>>64001431
Look up clips of it online, lots of low-brow humor and gratuitous sex. Very much a lay back and chill show, filled with meme material. 1st season ends with a big twist, though it's also been meme'd.