Unveiled at a recent expo. 12 tons, diesel-electric, 450 HP, crew of 3. Say something about it.

https://indonesiadefense.com/mengenal-tank-anti-drone-p8-light-karya-anak-bangsa-di-pameran-indo-defence/

1. Type: Multi-system light tank.
2. Crew capacity: 3 personnel (driver, commander, gunner) .
3. Transmission: Diesel to electric hybrid, allows the vehicle to run in silent mode without the engine active for a certain duration.
4. Weapon System: Remote Control Weapon Station (RCWS) 30–40 mm caliber.
5. Ballistic protection: STANAG 4569 Level 2–4.
6. Support system: Laser Warning System; Gunshot Detection System; Radar System.
7. Equipped with an anti-drone weapon system developed using technology from KNDS, a French arms company. This system can be integrated into various combat vehicles, depending on the unit's needs.

Looks like something designed by Eugen Systems for their 10 minutes into the future RTSs.

>>63996855 (OP)
>Tiny
>Huge power
>Gun that can stick up over walls
Yep im thinking another cancer nwordkart in war thunder

Useless in modern warfare
Very useful in suppressing West Papuans who only have AKs and Pindads

>>63997066
>Useless in modern warfare
Lmao, a small tank with an auto cannon still has plenty of uses, far from useless, especially for an island nation. It will likely be used to carry drones/ act as comm relay for other forces.

>>63996855 (OP)
Novel concept, could be pretty good on islands or otherwise shitty terrain. Would shine fighting forces who cant deploy heavier assets due to size (or weight) constraints.

>>63996886
>all that engrish
Jeez, really interdasting and implessive. Much good!

>>63996883
Rare to see a tracked vehicle with a 70mm rocket launcher instead of an ATGM

Not having troop carrying capacity seems like a luxury.

>>63997151
Probably some variant of Cirit and primarily for anti-infantry/fortification use.
That and there's probably one already rocking an ATGM that Indonesia uses but it's not at the expo.
All in all, this is just Indonesia's Jaguar.

>>63996855 (OP)
>STANAG level 2
Holy shit lmao. Imagine driving around in an armored vehicle that can be penetrated by steel core 7.62x51/54r.

>>63997066
>Very useful in suppressing West Papuans who only have AKs and Pindads
Kinda, the rebels all live in the highlands I don’t think these tanks will be able to get to them.

>>63996855 (OP)
>>63996870
>>63996873
>>63996879
>>63996883
Looks like a modernized Cobra HISS Tank

amphibious?

>>63997298
my bad just googled it

it is amphib

>>63997173
As things should be.

>>63997066
they also have american weapons

>>63996855 (OP)
It looks like it would make the basis of a good toy.

>>63997222
This would fuck if it's made unmanned

>>63999194
One command vehicle and three of these units, driven by three dudes in the command vehicle. Like playing battlefield and ripping dudes apart with the autocannon.

>>63996855 (OP)
>Small tank with no role in the modern battlefield
>Absolutely useless in the Indo-Pacific
>No sea-lift to move large numbers across Indonesian archipelago
Why are SEA monkeys so fucking stupid?

>>63999263
>Picrel misplaced white women on the loose doing and thinking about nonsense.
Women are always wrong. You are right. But there is no pride in acknowledging it and put your shame on display internationally. Take the responsibility and put them in their place.
>all that point
Care to provide reasons for the point you make? What's wrong with autocannon and missile pods in indog jungle hills in modern time, what is wrong with not having mass sea lifting in an army that isn't for expendition? Shit is even smaller than the mrap type right next to it.

>>63999257
Counter offer: one command vehicle and 9 of these, driven by three dudes

>>63999263
Your type of thinking is what made the Booker fail. We need this, that, and the other makes a light tank weigh 42 tons.

>>63996855 (OP)
Three guys, one hatch? Is this the new two girls, one cup?

That barrel will wobble.

>>64001424
>what made the Booker fail
The M10 failed because it was an utterly asinine concept from the Vietnam era which its very prerequisite to be deployed (air superiority bordering on air supremacy) made it irrelevant in the first place. Light tanks in any shape or form are a developmental dead end.

>>63996926
>nword
Fuck off, tourist scum

>>63997087
I never understand why this shit happens in official capacity. There has to be at least one person in Indonesia who knows decent English. Just grab him off the street and give him a 100 dollar bill or something.

>>63996855 (OP)
>450hp
Seems low for a tank. My car has more hp than that.

>>63996891
are those Bushmasters or Griffons in the background?

huh

>>63997066
>Very useful in suppressing West Papuans who only have AKs and Pindads
Have you seen the Papuan highlands?
Very, very, very ruggard and mountainous

>>64002117
Horsepower means nothing besides top speed. It measures the speed of an engine, indicating how fast work is done, while torque measures the rotational force, reflecting the engine's ability to perform work at a given moment. Together, they determine a vehicle's acceleration and overall performance, with torque providing the sensation of acceleration and horsepower contributing to top speed.

tl:dr only torque matters for an IFV.

This thing is only rated to stop 7.62x51mm, so it's basically a just an autocannon on tracks. Any heavy MG or light AT munitions will kill it.

>>63997304
Bullshit. Where's the proof? I see no propellers or jets.

>>63996855 (OP)
looks like an unmaned drone.

>>63999263
all the parts of the Indonesian military that has no purpose for its primary role, suppressing indigenous independence movements, basically exists to provide cushy jobs for the sons of elite Javanese families and subsidise western military contractors

>>64002255
it's real in his mind, the most important place

>>63996855 (OP)
>Weapon System: Remote Control Weapon Station (RCWS) 30–40 mm caliber.
>50 rounds of 30 mm
Cringe.

>Equipped with an anti-drone weapon system developed using technology from KNDS, a French arms company.
I see radar but don't see effectors.

>>64001865
>Light tanks in any shape or form are a developmental dead end.
Light tank equiped with working anti drone and anti ATGM counters is massively more useful on modern battfield than existing Main Battle Tanks

>>64003405
...until it hits a mine.

I'm going round in my head trying to work out what this was designed for and I don't get it.

12.7 and 50 will destroy most light targets, costs far less and importantly can be be stabilised far more easily. Why step up to 20,30mm?
Flack, airburst, if you're strafing ground targets and need the splash, to hit other light armour. But I don't see a three man counter insurgency tank achieving any of those things.

Why crew it? I mean it's remote controlled, why not use it as a drone?
Conversely, why not just operate it as a halftrack. Why automate one and not the other?

And why this gun configuration? You could have multiple barrels on a flack unit, or manual operation of a pack gun.
The only thing you'd sustained fire 20mm on is a light tank, but you don't have the manoeuvrability or armour to back that up.

The only thing I can think of is that this is a coastal defence gun that's going to be driven into a hardened position, to repel amphibious tanks. They've probably watched talisman saber and become suddenly very afraid of amphibious landings, and thought this was the only way they could get an anti tank gun in and out of position

The ewoks will probably park them on the beach and use them to stop APC landing craft and amphibious tanks.

Can't protect crew served guns from shelling, don't have any sensible coastal defences, don't care about anti air, don't have EW capability to support drone.

So use this thing like a rolling bunker with huge cannon in it, you could destroy a gorrilion landing craft with it, and it's still not really worth hitting with a missile.

>>64002242
Wait until you hear about gearing. Power output is the single most important performance metric of an engine, followed by specific fuel consumption. Torque is cope for people who can't build transmissions.

>>64003405
If said counters existed you could fit them on an MBT (arguably more easily too) and get a more capable platform still

>>64003524
For a tank or IFV, torque is more critical for the vehicle’s ability to move effectively through challenging terrain and manage its heavy weight. Horsepower plays a supporting role by allowing the vehicle to maintain speeds or manage engine performance over longer distances, but in combat or tactical situations, the emphasis is firmly on torque.

So what I can see happening here.
The gun is too big, the tank is too small.
The primary armaments aren't sufficiently armoured, it's too venurable to mines and mortars, 50 light, drones, it will just constantly suffer against low level threats. Someone with a Molotov in Jakarta. It won't work as a light tank.

They'll put more armour on it, it'll end up 16 tons. Even basic anti RPG screens, mortar cage, a plate to protect the tracks, is currently got nothing.

And at that point it will be too heavy to actually move around, the tracks aren't wide enough, the visibility is very poor for the driver, moving it my sea will become problematic because it'll just sink into the sand. It won't have enough torque in its final configuration. And this will sort of kill the idea that it's a tank hunter.

What I think they've got is a light tank which doesn't have a turret to protect the gun, a tank hunter which won't be able to go off road, a self propelled gun which costs three times too much and the crew can't see out of

>>64003492
>12.7 and 50 will destroy most light targets, costs far less and importantly can be be stabilised far more easily. Why step up to 20,30mm?
If I would guess it would be the ability to fire time fuzed HE round, have them airburst over insurgent position that would otherwise stop 50bmg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgmXhukQx4

There is video footage of a russian BTR unloading 30mm round and 7.62 coax into a ukranien trench sand berm and we can see a guy standing in the trench, unbothered. If that BTR had fired air bursting HE rounds he would have been dead in 2 rounds.
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/11cnrrm/ukrainian_soldier_under_accurate_fire_defends/
>inb4 reddit
I dont have a webm of that footage.

>Why crew it? I mean it's remote controlled, why not use it as a drone?
remote ground vehicles still are sucky, you need a long cable for it to function in ECM enviorment. Remote turrets are the next step for light vehicles, Unlike conventional manned turrets they have more internal space for the crew. The stryker's armed with 30mm guns still have space for the infantry squad it carries since it has a remote turret.

>And why this gun configuration? You could have multiple barrels on a flack unit
And what would that be? You are not talking about the BMPT are you? Are you talking about gun trucks with men exposed, manning multiple machine guns?
>or manual operation of a pack gun.
>pack gun.
You mean a M116 howitzer?

How would it perform against even lighter vehicles with ATGM and RWS? As this is the issue I see, it's a very expensive asset which is going to get fucked way too often by low level threats.

The crew being stuck in it isn't always an advantage, sure they're protected but they also can't flank with RPG, or exit if it catches fire or is imobalized/stuck.

With a humvee you can just use it as a technical, accept you'll be imobslized, but still shoot out the primary armaments and rocket a light tank. You're way faster on the road and while you risk getting stuck off road, you can self- recover.

I don't think the ewoks could get a 12 ton tank around, they'd sink it, get it stuck on a beach, jackknife it, then be unable to recover it. It would exchange fire with far smaller vehicles, and be disabled, because it's not a light tank it's only pretending. And we have a shit load of these lighter vehicles, and Indonesia has very few if any of these hybrid ultralight tanks

>>64003665
You don't use a gun that big against infantry, not only is it total overkill but it reduces your rate of fire and ammo capacity. There are also anti infantry grenade launchers in 25mm frag/he/airburst which absolutely shred infantry positions.

And I would argue for coin, counter insurgency, police use, well at that level the drone is totally what you want. We have remote controlled vehicles of this class for counter insurgence. We can send them into suicidal positions no crewed tank would take against RPG.

And yes, I'm comparing it's utility to a truck gun, because of the cost, and ability to shift the guns to hard positions, the two would give you significant advantage in flack.
And a howitzer would have many of those advantages, plus on islands you can move howitzers into niggardly positions.

So I can't rate the ewok tank as either an effective anti infantry vehicle, an effective coin asset, a tank hunter or a field gun.
It would seem to lack versatility, fall short again low level threats, not be a realistic answer to actual tanks.

>>64003615
>And at that point it will be too heavy to actually move around,
The P8 is listed as 12 tons when combat loaded, probably at stanag lvl 2. Let's just say with stanag 4 it weight 16 tons. Extra 0.5 tons for a rpg screen so 16.5 tons.

The Japanese world war 2 era medium tank type 97 which has weight around 14-15 tons was used constantly in jungle enviorments. It flanked british positions in jungles the brits considered impassable for tanks and it did it with a 165hp engine.

I seriously doubt the P8 with a significantly better engine and transmission cant move around in a jungle enviorment. It is not even heavier then the average modern MRAP which has a weight around 12-18 tons.

>>64003665
>I dont have a webm of that footage
Make one?

>>64003731
It's still in development, and nobody can verify the Indonesians claims, my suspicion is that when we're looking at it it will weight far more. MRAP isn't a good comparison in terms of use, but in terms of weight my thinking was on much the same line. How do the ewoks expect to armour a tank using less weight than our Armoured cars have? I just don't buy it.

And my comment about its mobility is relative, it is a tank after all. But it's not the right kind of tank. You look at the Japanese tank, it's low to the ground so won't get fucked up by trees. Consistent issue with RWC, gets damaged by trees. Gun not in a proper turret.
Japanese tank has trench tracks, heavy, wide, extend up the front of the tank.ewok tank has urban tracks, well behind the front, if that thing goes nose first into the mud, sand, if it tips forwards it's fucked. And the Japanese realised in the jungle they weren't going to be able to pick their angle of attack, so they needed rear armour.

Nah this is a chinkshit vehicle which will only have protection against RPG from the front, it'll get bogged all the time, the gun is too big and the tracks are too small.

>>64003789
Ewoks? Why are you talking about ewoks? They're a fictious species of teddy bears.

>>64001879
Just because some people here say it doesn’t mean everyone does. Of course you might know that if you’d been here a while.

>>64003825
3/8

>>64001865
The Booker is not and was never intended to be a light tank. It's closer to an IFV, but it's more heavily armed and armored than an IFV of its weight class since the US can afford to buy separate vehicles for infantry to ride in.

>>64005576
Whether you call it a tank, assault gun, or some other thing doesn't change the fact that it wasn't fit for purpose

>>64007280
In what way was the Booker unfit as an IFV? It's better armed and protected than the many modern IFVs of comparable weight.

>>64007977
Versatility. In milfag terms, modularity. It excelled (to a point) as exactly what it was originally intended to be: "mobile protected firepower." But picture converting Bookers over to DE-SHORAD or the million other uses for already fielded IFVs. In the west, the main gun is an albatross around the neck of all new kit that's going to be outranged by arty anyway. Main gun reqs make a vehicle very inflexible for anything that can't be done with a main gun.

>>64009311
The US already has other platforms for SHORAD, why would they convert the Booker?

Clearly a vehicle designed for littoral purposes.

If add-ons happen they will happen after landing has been accomplished and at that point there are various solutions to make sure it doesn't get snagged up in jungle.

Australia has been doing quite a few exercises with Indonesia, so the fact that they come up with a vehicle all about littoral combat when that has been the theme of the exercises suggests they have a good idea about what their needs are.

I think it's interesting that they've come out with this as a priority considering they're far from freeing themselves from their amx-13s. Clearly amphibiousness was very much a need.

Actually I've been waiting for the Indonesians to announce a retrofitted amx-13 UGV. Given Australia paved the way with their m113as4s it would make sense if Indonesia decided it would try to save money that way too.

>>64009438
The point is that they can't, so they're stuck using the thing in one role regardless of the percentage of scenarios in which it's actually needed.

>>63997222
I think that there are body armor plates that unironically mog it.

>>63996855 (OP)
Has anyone ordered any or is it just a show room display?

>>64011573
It's a month old without orders yet afaik

>>64011518
Okay, but why would they care when they already have multipurpose platforms?

>>64011557
no

>>63996855 (OP)
>Support system: Laser Warning System; Gunshot Detection System; Radar System
Radar is becoming standard on tanks and IFVs.

>>64017410
Ultra low SWaP radars are getting good lately.

>>63996855 (OP)
Kikes

>>64017661
what

>>64001879
you literally get banned for that in this board

>>64020074
no

>>64002120
P2 Tiger APC
P6 ATAV

>>64023083
>P6 mentioned

>>64003492

The answer is trees. 20mm+ goes trough trees easily and denies the most common form of cover besides trenches.

30mm can have HE with substantial splash damage so you don't need to be precise and can shoot into buildings from the windows wrecking anyone inside with few shots.

>>64011557
>>64015914
There are. NIJ 4 is rated for steel core .30-06, STANAG 2 is not.

>>63996855 (OP)
i have strong feeling that 12.7 would easily penetrate this

>>64020074
nigger