Germany had around 7k armored vehicles at the start of Operation Barbarossa.


What are they planning?

They should design a new MBT just to reuse the name T I G E R
>Hans, bring the Flammenwerfer T I G E R

Ok so I just need like 10k drones, got it.

>>63997103
Cool. Then get them. Faggot.

>>63997088 (OP)
Good, now the US can leave Europe.

>>63997117
Not on your life, pal. Gonna wait it out until it’s time to invade Kaliningrad.

>>63997088 (OP)
BUT WHAT ABOUT STUFF LIKE ARTILLERY AND AIR FORCE SHIT?

>>63997117
>Not wanting to kill ziggers
Fake /k/ommando. Get off this board and please get fucking shot and raped by Mexican cartels.

>>63997103
If it was that easy you'd think both sides would stop using tanks in Ukraine.

>>63997088 (OP)
How many metal boxes?

>>63997088 (OP)
They are planning for the dissolution of NATO and the EU defensive pact becoming the primary military alliance.

>>63997117
The US won't leave and after Trump will desperately try to make people trust them again because without NATO there is no reason to use the USD as the reserve currency which will lead to Zimbabwe levels of hyperinflation.

>inb4 /pol/
Geopol has always been /k/.

>>63997200
Cope

>>63997203
I'm an Aussie and want us to build the bomb for defence independence, the US committing sudoku is good for me as we can push out US oil corporations and nationalize.

>>63997212
>I'm an Aussie
so are you 2nd generation or third generation chinese?

>>63997233
2nd gen Aussie, grand parents were Irish and Dutch, both came over after the war.
Whites are cheering for the destruction of your state because of the GOP.

>>63997238
>Whites are cheering for the destruction of your state because of the GOP.
My dude, I say this genuinely if you aren't a larping brown like 90% of this website, Mainstream news is full of hyperbole meant to sell you on a narrative. The realities are no where near as exciting as dumbass STABBED IN THE BACK narratives.

>>63997249
I worked on the Gorgon natural gas project in WA, there are 4 pipelines each producing $8m per day for a total of $24m per day. It's owned an operated by Chevron and BP (both US companies) they pay ~2% tax here and ~12% tax in the US meaning the US makes more money from taking our resources than we get for owning them.
This isn't an isolated case, to insure our alliance we give the US tens of billions every year though allowing US companies to take our resources.

Then you turn around and say you are getting a bad deal, we have followed you into every war, never asked you to follow us into Indonesia and now you say you won't honor defensive pacts and want to tariff us.

Fuck you, fuck every retard that has no idea how much every allied nation gives you in deal like this, fuck every US politician that is fully aware but just wants to fuck us harder.
I hope this isn't forgotten or forgiven, you choose to act like Russia to your allies and deserve to end up with the economy of Russia as a result.

As for the media they would never talk about how the US makes more money from our resources than we do, this is something only bankers and resource workers know.

its always so interesting to see how threads on 4chan devolve and go off topic. wheres the screenshot where the OP is tentacle porn and it turns into Kant discussion

>>63997270
ah, you're a bot. Sorry for responding. I wish you the best of luck on BRICS

>>63997270
pay your debts

>>63997088 (OP)
>What are they planning?
The symphony of battle

>>63997278
So you didn't know and don't have a rational justification?

>>63997279
We if made as much money of our resources as the US does there would be no debt.

>>63997273
its a sad inevitability after the 2016 elections because now every fucking special interest group knows we are another avenue for controlling the narrative.
Keep an eye out as these hysteric style posts usually only pop up when certain keywords are mentioned.
I fucking hate this brave new world.

>>63997273
>>63997292
The OP is why is Germany aiming for defence independence, the answer is US foreign policy.

>>63997300
which is more likely, a STABBED IN THE BACK narrative that hasn't actually happened and probably won't happen but trust me they hate each other so NATO won't help.
Or Russia just chimped out and invaded a major nation thats only one nation away and we realized that our garbage that was rotting away since the late 80s isn't going to cut it for more than 2 weeks?

>>63997312
to be clear, I do think theres some mutual distrust but I think the argument is 90% hysterics. The US doesn't want to dissolve NATO and if russia got retarded, the US would intervene immediately so accusations of the us standing by and doing nothing are just laughable.

My take on the backstabbing narrative remains unchanged.
It is good to have allies, but allies are no replacement for the capability to defend yourself. Putting aside the fickle nature of alliances, public opinion and democratic rule, national allies are like the police - minutes away when every second counts. Every country should spend on defense, allies or no.

>>63997312
>that hasn't actually happened
Trump stopped already approved aid to Ukraine and had to be forced by the courts to deliver it and Hegseth and Vance have both been very public about saying they don't want to support Europe.
Now he's claiming "in 50 days" he'll give aid to Ukraine for the first time this term but anyone taking that as fact has clearly forgotten all the other deadlines he has set.

>>63997320
I think the US would enter a war to defend Germany of Poland but Estonia?

>>63997312
maybe it's just both?
USA was always seen as the world police regarding freedom, every euro just expected them to go into any war no questions asked, which is why most militaries only existed for extorting money out of it, even in germany, with big names like ursula von der leyen paying family members and friends millions as advisors while those had no experience with war or weapons at all.
A dude in the white house that actually told them to fuck off and that he might not help no questions asked definitely was a needed wakeup call for europe, but it might've backfired like >>63997300 said.
Now you hear a lot of people say stuff like what if the next president is even more retarded, we'd be completely helpless turtles on our backs if we keep relying on USA.

>>63997088 (OP)
Better question is: who will man them?

>>63997332
>I think the US would enter a war to defend Germany of Poland but Estonia?
yes? The US wouldn't balk at the attempt to show everyone how much they overmatch third world nations.
>>63997329
>My take on the backstabbing narrative remains unchanged.
>It is good to have allies, but allies are no replacement for the capability to defend yourself. Putting aside the fickle nature of alliances, public opinion and democratic rule, national allies are like the police - minutes away when every second counts. Every country should spend on defense, allies or no.
A reasonable take and I 100% agree.
>>63997334
to be clear, I do think there have been fuck ups on both sides. The US isn't wrong feeling like its been taken advantage of up to this point with defense spending. Europe is right to be peeved with some of the hyperbole that has come from the US's side. The problem is neither wants to admit that they both contributed to this current hairball
>>63997332
>Trump stopped already approved aid to Ukraine and had to be forced by the courts to deliver it and Hegseth and Vance have both been very public about saying they don't want to support Europe.
Okay while I do support arming Ukraine, NATO is not about defending Europe, its about Defending NATO. The US doesn't have an obligation to defend Ukraine and I don't think this current kerfuffle should somehow erase our knowledge of all previous US aid. If you want to point fingers, Id take a look at Hungary for a genuine enemy on the inside.

>>63997356
>The US doesn't have an obligation to defend Ukraine
>The US wouldn't balk at the attempt to show everyone how much they overmatch third world nations
These are contradictory, I know the US has no obligation to help Ukraine but if you want to show the west is ready to throw down that was the place to do it. Instead Biden was half assed and Trump has been actively helping Russia by delaying congressionally approved aid.

>look at Hungary
Hungary has been the broker laundering a heap of arms sales from Africa and the ME, minimal direct aid but great use of soft power to get Ukraine soviet ammo from around the work.

>The problem is neither wants to admit that they both contributed to this current hairball
I'm an Aussie talking about Australia, we have done nothing wrong by the US at all and as I pointed out with the oil contracts we give you tens of billions every year as a gift with no strings attached.
If I was a Euro I would say we should have been hitting 2% and of course the US is pissed but at the same time I would also be pissed about free trade agreements being thrown in the bin.

>>63997088 (OP)
But where are they going to find the men to crew them? The only Germans interested in the military are "Nazis" and "problematic".

>>63997424
India

I literally don't believe in European remilitarization
I just don't
Germany's 10,000 tanks are as real to me as the Armata battalions and China's seventh generation quantum superfighter

Decades of fighting tooth and nail couldn't get most EU countries to raise their military spending from 1% to 1.5% and I'm supposed to believe that all of a sudden you're all ready for 5%
It's all fucking paper and smoke that will evaporate in the first negotiation between the communist party that controls 22% of your parliament and the gay Christian businessman party that controls 23.5% of your parliament (I am throwing a net over multiple nations there)

Every one of you sounds like the French assholes who will insist, quite loudly and autistically, that the Rafale is an honorary 5th gen fighter

>>63997164
God your retarded

>>63997088 (OP)
Make
Deutschland
Great
Again

>>63997117
you'd think the FCAS fiasco would make more people remember that europe's worst and least reliable allies have always been each other

Their fucking logo is goatse
I am not joking
What the fuck

>>63997098
They did it with the Panther

>>63997512
The MEME's Jack!

>>63997512
>Diagnosis: faggot

>>63997117
it would be bad for the jews so usa cant leave

>>63997088 (OP)
Nothing to see here, the tank population of the HRE are slowly returning thanks to breeding programs after decades of over hunting. Soon the big cat population of the North European plain will bounce back from extinction. No panic

>>63997512
Imagine being so Russian you look at everything and see gay porn

>>63997332
The US would at the least get dragged in by all the Euro powers joining in to defend the baltics

>>63997512
It's a face putting war paint on retard

>>63997200
>They are planning for the dissolution of NATO and the EU defensive pact becoming the primary military alliance.
Wouldn't be entirely opposed to this idea. US has its hands full with China, so EU stepping up and taking care of the Atlantic side makes perfect sense. If either side goes hot, the other can assist. If both sides go hot, then better that each can take care of their own backyard.

>>63997607
It's great for the EU but terrible for the US as they lose all soft power. Long term it could lead to tensions between the US and EU as the US wants to push further economically right than neoliberalism while half of the EU is still on liberalism and some neoliberal nations like the UK are looking at ditching neoliberalism and returning to liberalism.
Either way it's going to be an exciting century and China is going to try and take advantage of the shakeup.

>>63997449
Americans are so funny when they do this
>NU-UH IT'S NOT REAL BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE REAL TO ME!
Europe is rearming to gain strategic independence. You're a retarded faggot if you don't think that the mainline social democrats, centrist and conservatives don't have an agreement on this continent-wide.

>>63997088 (OP)
I would rather invest in cobalt bombs so we can permanently fix Russia but that's me.

>>63997638
China has been trying to take advantage of everything. They are to economies what Russians are to manbutt.

>>63997638
Ehh you make a bigger deal out of political rhetoric than I think is realistic. Regardless of how retarded politics get, US and EU are still natural allies rather than competitors. Yeah, Trump has done perhaps irreparaple damage to US foreign relations, and there's bound to be some friction in the future, but I don't really see how things could get so bad that the US and EU would sever the alliance altogether. And if they don't, then it wouldn't make sense that China would benefit from the situation, since US reallocating more resources left redundant by EU remilitarisation would only pose challenges for them.

>>63997300
Yes the US foreign policy of wanting Europe to be self sufficient in defense.

>>63997673
No, the concerning US foreign policy of sucking Russian cock. That's why EU is rearming so that it doesn't need to accommodate every retarded chimp who gets in the White House.

>>63997667
>I don't really see how things could get so bad that the US and EU would sever the alliance altogether
The fastest way to become an enemy of the US is to tax corporations and take care of the people, this makes the US citizens say things like "they have socialized healthcare, why don't we" which really sucks for the ruling class.

>wouldn't make sense that China would benefit from the situation
China doesn't need a full split to benefit they simply need to be a stable trade partner that doesn't change tariffs 3 times in as many months.
The increased military spending is only a threat to China if China isn't in the economic position to discourage military intervention. We have seen how powerful that can be with Israeli influence over the west being so strong everyone refuses to call a genocide a genocide.

>>63997673
The US wanted the EU to be dependant on the US for defence because it grants a shitload of soft power, if the EU gains independence suddenly the US is trying to fund their 6th gen fighters on their own because why would the EU buy American?

>>63997512
Its a statement of intent
A visual representation of what a rearmed Europe intends to do to Russia first, and then to anyone else who challenges the cause of Democracy

>>63997694
There was new aid package and sanctions announced this week.
>>63997728
Then why did the US spend almost two decades before the war in Ukraine asking its European allies to increase their defense commitments?

>>63997638
Neoliberalism is already dead and going back to anything that came before it is not an option
Its not relevant to the thread so I won't go into details but whatever happens next to the politics of the western world is going to be something either completely new or tragically familiar

>>63997638
>but terrible for the US as they lose all soft power
'Soft power' is Russian psyops..

>>63997270
based
shartmartians really fell off

>>63997694
your pussy ass NWO leaders were forced to spend more on their own defense because the US is no longer going to be your welfair system.

>>63997734
>Then why did the US spend almost two decades before the war in Ukraine asking its European allies to increase their defense commitments?
The plan was to have Euro troops defending Euro soil with American weapons bought using money borrowed from American banks, and the Biden administration was well on its way to making that happen too
Trump has stepped into ensure that what will actually happen is Euro troops defending Euro soil with as few American weapons and as little American credit as can possibly be managed, which is still good but a step down from the perspective of America

>>63997088 (OP)
The Wehrmacht was badly undermechanised for the war it was trying to fight

>>63997751
Wait a minute. This is a killswitch thread.

>>63997291
>So you didn't know and don't have a rational justification?
He literally just went on to the next point after being contradicted on his "America gives good deal to allies and doesnt backstab" narrative
That is pretty russian-coded lmao
Be advised that there *are* bot/shillniggers riling up tensions
But it is more inportant to actually have a cogent view on the facts, regardless of whether a bot is bringing up tbe topic or not
If Americans and Australians understood the resource dynamic then these American politicians would be more easily detested evey by Americans amd parasites like gina reinhart (thanks friendlyjordies lmao) would get grilled like saturday evening pork pikes.
If we instead devolve into mere accusations of shill/bot- faggery without factual clarifications and communication we aid the exact reason why would-be bots/shills post this stuff in the first place
So I think the strategically right thing to do is to remain factual and only slightly derisive unless there is overwhelming evidence it's a shill or bot - and only then does it make sense to really start talking about it instead of smacking aside the ill-contrived and idiotic assertions and inflammations these would-be """ bots/shills""" try to make.

>>63997088 (OP)
Koningsberg is rightful historic prusso-germanic clay

>>63997751
>The plan was to have Euro troops defending Euro soil with American weapons bought using money borrowed from American banks,
The plan was to have American troops defending Euro soil with American weapons bought using European banks

>>63997782
You are right, I'm just pissed to hear claps talk about how we are fucking them over when they have no fucking idea how good they have it.
The politicians are fully aware and still choose to act this way and it's not just Trump but the whole GOP which to me means every 8 years our biggest ally turns into Russia and starts extorting us.
This has lead to me thinking fuck it, lets build the bomb, allow Pine Gap to keep operating for soft power and make it clear we aren't getting involved in the coming Sino-American war.

>>63997837
I agree with most of what you are saying (especially the bomb) but we are gonna be involved in the upcoming war with China whether we want to be or not
We have too much land and resources and too small a population not be a target for the chinks, we also have a style of government that their leader explicitly views as an existential threat to him, personally
If the Americans lose, the chinks will come for us next, if we have nukes then it will just be grey zone shit instead of a kinetic war but they will never stop until our democracy is gone and replaced by a system of government that answers directly to the CCP

>>63997512
>Their fucking logo is goatse
russian ass won't be able to cope

>>63997640
Spain and Italy already scuttled the agreement on what to fucking name it

>>63997856
I'm not an ozzie so i can't speak on your situation, but i feel like if the US loses the sinoamerican war the whole world is gonna have a lot worse shit to worry about. I don't have much love for the americunts but I'd rather have them than the chinks (or the russians, but >ukraine) in my proverbial backyard. Not to mention the potential literal fallout of that kind of conflict.

>>63997088 (OP)
Well, the pattern usually goes:
>russia does something stupid and loses majority its military in stupid shit
>european country notices the weakness and amassess an massive army
>russians burn down half their own country to slow down the invasion
>some deus ex machinae shit eventually saves russia from being totally oblitetated
>rinse and repeat

>>63997856
>We have too much land and resources and too small a population not be a target for the chinks
I agree which is why I want the bomb, we are lucky because as an Island we can set off nukes under the surface of the ocean destroying navies for the same environmental impact as the French tests of the 90s making it way more politically viable than for other nations that would need airburst or surface detonations for defence.
>we also have a style of government that their leader explicitly views as an existential threat to him, personally
So does most of the world, if the Libs and Sky news stopped saying we are going to war with China I think we could deter them.
>If the Americans lose, the chinks will come for us next
We aren't going to turn the tide of battle in Taiwan and those extra years would be vital to a nuclear and rocketry program.
>they will never stop until our democracy is gone and replaced by a system of government that answers directly to the CCP
I honestly doubt it but assuming you are right the deterrent still works because we can use them on the sea instead of being another country that only talks about it,

>>63997270
>4 pipelines each producing $8m per day for a total of $24m per day.

>>63997837
>Pine Gap
oh lol, this is all just some retarded sperg's rageblog

>>63997889
math is hard

>>63997889
Fuck you are right, $32m per day.

>>63997890
It's a vital US comms centre, keeping it around makes it clear we are still happy to be allies even if we are no longer a vassal state.

>>63997747
Apply yourself to an English course, Señor Hernandez.

Australia needs domestically produced nuclear weapons NOW

>>63997837
Totally understand your stance bro
The behavior at various levels of the GOP from actual (lmaojordies) corrupt pedophile politicians down to chip on the shoulder suburban subhumans is infinitely arrogant, uneducated, ignorant and utterly insufferable.
>The politicians are fully aware and still choose to act this way and it's not just Trump but the whole GOP which to me means every 8 years our biggest ally turns into Russia and starts extorting us
You overestimate the competency of the politicians
Of course vance is a repugnant subhuman but the shit he said in the hegseth leaks (violating pres. records act harder than that disgusting neoliberal bitch hillary ever could) for example was not intended to be public
He's a real retard, even if his views are also sleazy and dishonest
Same and worse for trump, the pedophile epstein shielding senile retard trump isn't even aware of what AUKUS is (which is an actual bad deal; for Australia)
There is components of disingenuousness and two-facedness, especially from pedophile-shielding molerats like stephen miller but there is also genuine ignorance and incompetence and facebook-tier lead-brained bommeroids
Good luck ofer there in Australia, glad you managed to elect the Labour party, keep fucking the teals, so-called (neo)"liberals" and the delusional scum of the "greens" and get your frens aboard the labour-train (not braking for libjeets lmao)

>>63997088 (OP)
Lancet food.
Unironically.
No really until they make anti drone point defense mandatory for AFVs they are just targets.

When did /k/ reach a point where it was unironically shilling for Labour parties, which universally have stances of "no civilian should be allowed to own any firearm, ever"

>>63997747
You are a complete idiot, dynamics such as >>63997270 apply for the benefit of America accross the board.
Now tgat America is acting erratically and unreliably this position of hegemony is at threat.
There is a """" wElLfAAAiR"""" alright and should American power collapse, you - shart-addled subhuman, will be suffering it as much if not more than Europe will.

>>63997921
Because this thread is about geopolitics and weapons acquisitions by state actors and in that regard the liberals are way more retarddd, blinkered, corrupt and nonsensical than labour.

>>63997512
Hmmm?

>>63997921
Seppos are the only people on earth dipshit enough to hand guns out like candy and then shocked pikachu face when tens of thousands of you get shot every year
This might contradict your zigger brainrot but Europe owns the second most guns on earth and most of us are very happy with keeping the schizos and white trash unarmed

>>63997888
I'm not saying dont build a bomb or seek strategic independence or anything, but the time to fight china is while the Americans are still around to help
There are not actually that many functioning democracies left in the world of today, and the Chinese Communist Party leadership intends to destroy ALL of them, so that nothing is left to compete with its vision of a globalised authoritarian superstate (operating exclusively under CCP leadership of course)

>>63997921
This is all some /int/ fag deciding to start a thread on /k/ as his personal rage diary because Americans or something. Remember herbs and buttons.

>>63997921
>Labour parties, which universally have stances of "no civilian should be allowed to own any firearm, ever"
Yeah remember in 1996 when a labor government passed the National Firearms Agreement leading to hosh restrictions on firearms and the destruction of over 500,000 of such?

>>63997937
Harsh*

>>63997384
>>look at Hungary
>Hungary has been the broker laundering a heap of arms sales from Africa and the ME, minimal direct aid but great use of soft power to get Ukraine soviet ammo from around the work.
I thought that was Serbia.

>>63997915
Labor is as doomed as the liberal party, the future of Australian politics is independent

>>63997915
While Labor are the lesser evil Albo is doing his best Bill Clinton impersonation by moving to where the right was 20 years ago.
The housing crisis is driven by the rich buying up thousands of houses each because house prices have out preformed index funds for the last 40 years and the only way to bring them down is a cap on the number of residential investment properties anyone can own. He won't do this because it would hurt donors and require a massive bailout of the working class so they aren't left owing $800k on a house now worth $200k.
We need leaders with the spine to tell the donors and mines to get fucked but after Rudd got removed they are all to scared to act.

>>63997921
The economic destruction of the west started with Thatcher in the UK, Reagan in the US and Howard in Oz, the economic right have burnt down the world to make their donors richer.
Add to that it was the Libs that took our guns.

>>63997940
>the future of Australian politics is independent
Hahahahaha
Ahhh
Independents...
Yeah hey maybe we'll see a Greens government next!

>>63997921
The retarded and corrupt L/NC don't have much better views on firearms either, so the question is:"Do I vote for the better deal for myself and the average citizen?" which is a completely foreign question to Americlaps, because to you it's a question of voting for your team and signalling group loyalty.

>>63997941
>economic destruction started in the 80s
All of those people got swept into office because Western economies in the '70s were so bad that there was briefly a tangible threat the Warsaw Pact would catch up

>>63997942
any independent government will necessarily be a coalition of multiple parties working together (like the lib/nat coalition but more functional)
the time of single large parties existing as sustainable political entities in Australia died with the neoliberal consensus a few years ago, labor is coasting by on little more than the trump effect and its own fading inertia

>>63997921
Your little 12 gauge pea shooter won't protect you from the PLA Navy
Real life isn't Red Dawn

>>63997950
>Western economies in the '70s were so bad
Only if you think line go up is more important than people being able to afford families.

>>63997955
Thanks for making it clear that you're an economic flat earther and we can stop speaking here

>>63997940
>>63997952
Most independents are just Libs that care about the environment and want the continued economic destruction of the working class.
The way to actually unfuck shit is the socialists that see what worked for 100 years and ended not due to failure but greed.

>>63997960
>In October 1973, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) announced that it was implementing a total oil embargo against countries that had supported Israel at any point during the 1973 Yom Kippur War
Yeah, sure was liberalism fault.

>>63997964
If you're that eager that socialism can work this time then just let China win

Or is this like a Sino Soviet split deal

>>63997953
Wanna try chink?

>>63997968
Mutt reading comprehension
No wonder none of you know what AUKUS is

>>63997967
I'm old enough I remember state owned banks, utilities and transport in Australia, it was great.
You have never lived under socialism and believe what the ruling class with the most to lose tell you about it.

>>63997921
>ree everyone a lefty now
No I can see merit in both sides while seeing the utter retardation in both as well. I swear the site always goes for us vs them instantly

>>63997975
It's amusing you posted that sixteen seconds after the tankie

>>63997971
>AUKUS
Yeah the 3 eye alliance fucking chink. You fucks always mask as a concerned Australian.

>>63997980
And does that make me a tankie?

>>63997967
Fucking hell you seppos are insufferable when it comes to discussion about socialists. You fucking ignorant troglodytes do not understand what a modern socialist in the West is. Here's a redpill for you: it's not fucking Chinese CCP.

>>63997117
>US leaves Hamburg

uh huh

>>63997980
No a tankie, I'm a classical liberal aka limited socialism / capitalism mixed market economy.
You live in a mixed market where your taxes cover police, fire etc. but can't see that having more things socialized can be good.
Insurance is a great example, everyone needs it and the economy needs towns to rebuild after disasters so why introduce a profit motive where companies not paying out which hurts the overall economy is incentivised. It fills that same role as the fire department in the big picture and is a win for everyone except the billionaires that own them.

>>63997985
The extreme duopoly of seppo politics creates these hopeless retards. The USA would be a much, much healthier country if it was a multi-party system.

>>63997103
Germany is ramping up production as we speak. As one of the first European countries especially due to their multitude of promising drone startups and projects. Good luck.

>>63997987
The hamburger comes from New Haven, CT

>>63997512
>no ring
Not a real goatse

>>63997886
>some deus ex machinae shit
Logistics every single time. People underestimate the size of Russia and how expensive it is to ship things before trucks and highways.

>>63997088 (OP)
Operation Barbarossa 2

>>63997989
Show us on the doll where these billionares touched you.

Main reason for bloated western debt levels is the welfare queens sucking up the budget. Especially retirees. See UK budget moaning right now. Fully privatise healthcare with minimum regulation so doctors and hospitals can actually start competing in a free market environment with price, and quality, adjusted to budget. Also state guaranteed retirement has to go. By phasing out. Used to be that for average citizen best way to guarantee your safety in old age was having kids. Now there is no thought because the state will bail you out no matter what kind of assetless chump you are

The billionares your kind always seethes in jealousy at, since they are easy punching bags, can barely afford you a single burger if all of their crap was stolen and distributed among the lazy fuck ups

>>63998245
>muh welfare queens
You'd be surprised how much billionnaires slurp up in subsidies, tax cuts, grants and other direct monetary assistance. Not to mention their affinity for economic criminality, like tax avoidance and corporate crime.

>>63998245
seppo lolberts are cute

>>63998245
>welfare queens sucking up the budget
Agreed, did you know that In the US, fossil fuel subsidies amounted to an estimated $757 billion in 2022, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies
These companies turn trillions in profits and still get handouts simply because they buy politicians. We need to stop the welfare cheats now.
>doctors and hospitals can actually start competing in a free market
Like in the US with famously cheap medical costs?
>state guaranteed retirement has to go
For a /k/unt you don't seem to understand people can overthrow governments.

>>63997117
No can do, buster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA9eMKNCRuQ

>>63997512
Nobody will believe it without link.
https://x.com/EU_Commission/status/1897574565427266040

>>63998245
>since they are easy punching bags
fucking hell

>>63998013
nothing will change until they reform their electoral process, American zero sum politics is a direct result of first past the post style voting and shit like gerrymandering only makes it worse
The problem is systemic and must therefore be addressed at a systemic level

>>63997329
Best take, like why own a gun if you can call the police? Because my gun doesn't is right here and doesn't tak3 5 minutes to arrive?

>>63997329
>It is good to have allies, but allies are no replacement for the capability to defend yourself
Unless of course in the very founding of your nation.

>>63997088 (OP)
Your tausenjährigesreich, Herr Doktor General, so sorry for the 80 year delay, mein apologies.

>>63997088 (OP)
Deterrence

>>63997312
>STABBED IN THE BACK narrative
It isn't. It's the same attitdue as the French had during he cold war. Which is a lack of trust in american commitment to defend europe.

>>63997103
It takes between 3-5 drones to take out a shitbox T-55 Russian tank, its gonna take like 5-10 at least to take out a Leo or other NATO tank optimized to eat RPG warheads.

I love these threads, they bring out both drone bots, americans who are suddenly not happy with the fact Europe's "pulling their own weight", not to mention the general derailment. It just shows how afraid some people are.
As for why the Germans need all this equipment, my guess would be a mix of general replacement of it as well as deterrence. Plus, it's a chance to bail out the German automakers (VAG has already shown interest in retooling some of their factories).

With great economy comes great responsibility. I am glad Germany has finally gotten it through their heads after the cold war, again. Not just responsibility towards defending yourself but also your neighboring countries, i.e your allies and trading partners from foreign aggression and tyranny.
Sick temper tyrannosaurus. Monke delenda est.

>>63997088 (OP)
They have no political will to fight, all these tanks will be captured without resistance.

>>63997088 (OP)
Waste if money, should spend that money on developing nuke.
If you don't have nuke these days you're not really a country.

>>63998486
>we will kick the door and the whole rotten structure will fall

>>63997103
lol retarded drone nigger, kill yourself

>>63998486
>Russia only needs to raise an eyebrow and Germany will understand

I'm sure I've heard this one before somewhere.

>>63997103
Leave, tourist

>>63997270
>BP
>British Petroleum
>an American company
Wut

>>63998566
>BP p.l.c.
>formerly BP Amoco p.l.c.
>formerly formerly The British Petroleum Company p.l.c.
When Deepwater Horizon happened it hadn't been British Petroleum for 22 years, the media used a very old name to shift blame.

>>63997454
Uhh... English please?

>>63998464
"americans" from Texas oblast sure dont like Europe paying their NATO obligations and more huh?

>>63997512
>>63998310

> dat commentsection
jej
also picrel

>>63997117
>US can leave Germany
kek
they don't want to

in fact they just invested billions into multiple renovation
the biggest US hospital outside the US in Weilerbach for example, just got expanded for 1,1billion€

they massively profit from the multiple airports and bases in Germany
Germany pays around ~2,5billion€/year to the US (half of it directly and the rest mostly as building infrastructure for them)
not to mention the access to the rest of German infrastructure

US military will never leave unless they're forced to by Germany

>>63997200
>and the EU defensive pact becoming the primary military alliance
it's way stronger anyway

>Article 42 (7)
is binding by law and requires to go in with full force
not just the weak "we might help" with nato article 5

Armament of Frontex already started with 2021-2027 EU long-term budget
maybe ~5y more and it'll take over military duties of member states

>>63997088 (OP)
Obviously they intend to invade Poland.

>>63998588
>BP p.l.c. (formerly The British Petroleum Company p.l.c. and BP Amoco p.l.c.; stylised in all lowercase) is a British multinational oil and gas company
>headquartered in London, England
>Amoco (/ˈæməkoʊ/ AM-ə-koh) is a brand of fuel stations operating in the United States and owned by British conglomerate BP since 1998.
But in any case, it makes little difference, it's a global coroporation whose only loyalty is to profit.

>>63998826
you fucking retard

>>63997088 (OP)
>What are they planning?
to crush and and all revolts that might happen in the next couple decades
they even started building a fucking moat around the Reichstag ( seat of the german gubberment )

the use of Leopard tanks on the modern battlefield is questionable at best and a war with russia is not going to happen anyways

>>63998891
> no argument
> only seething
i accept your concession

>>63998911
being a retard must be hard

>>63999061
It's rather easy being a fucking retard as they believe their own retarded drivel

>>63997103

i'd imagine NATO is absolutely not working on a solution to the FPV drone issues. Russia should definitely put all their eggs in that basket.

>>63997638
>but terrible for the US as they lose all soft power.
yeah this is why both china and russia tries to manipulate online discussion and people like the orange man into tensions between the US and Europe in the last ten years.
Pre early 2010s even discussions between american and europeans were way healthier and positive than now. Since these 2 thridie nation started to subvert online communities and spread their pest things went pretty downhill and dumb populists are actively taking advantage of this also worsening the situation with their short term vision all about themselves
Europe and USA, old and new worlds, they are brothers and unstoppable together.
I wish only the worst for the bugmen and the ziggers for driving wedge between us

>>63998245
Imagine simping for billionaires that treat you like cattle

>>63998245
>t. neet

>>63999139
> muh russian hacker boogeyman
euro-merican realtions have been up and down every since
thinking its (solely) the fault of some glorified 3rd world country is insane, the people you are looking for are within your very own country
stuff like the 90s simpsons, the most influential series of the 20th century, is filled to the brim with euro-hate ever since its advent; french-, biritsh- and germanhate has been a staple of american pop-culture ever since then (maybe even longer)

>>63999192
>stuff like the 90s simpsons, the most influential series of the 20th century, is filled to the brim with euro-hate ever since its advent; french-, biritsh- and germanhate has been a staple of american pop-culture ever since then (maybe even longer)
Euro jokes of the day are not hate, and freedom fries were a fad that lasted exactly a month. Bants being played up as euro hate is 100% agitprop.

>>63997512

>>63999192
I have always suspected the anti-french media in the US was a targeted effort to stop the US polulation from realizing how good things can get if you are willing to to put a few guillotines in front of parliament.
They are the only western country that reminds their leaders they are mortal on a regular basis and the only one were a 4 day work week is common.

>>63997454
You're

>>63999196
> freedom fries
its just an example
obivously freedom fries is not the end of the world but I couldnt find a better pic that serves as an example of rather poor french-american relations after iraq

Why is this thread still up?

>>63999205
I want to be french so bad. Fuck this gay schizoid country, I just want to have buttered baquettes and a 3 day weekend.

>>63999192
in the 00s and 90s US v Euro jokes were 99 percent just bantz, and simpsons jokes were that as well.
subversion is not "le russian bogeyman" just bc your knowledge only covers 2016. It's a multiple decades old tactic of the soviets and basically ongoing non-stop since the 60s with only a brief stop around the dissolutionof the soviet union. It's just that in the recent decade china also joined in the party and with social media they have bigger than ever reach and more powerful tools than ever.

>>63999231
> It's a multiple decades old tactic
> of the soviets
you were this close

>>63999258
Your point ?

>>63997547
>da joooos
Update your script.

>>63997185
Well Russians stopped using tanks in Ukraine, but that is only because they ran out of them.

>>63999268
> Your point ?

>>63999205
>>63999221
>France
>good
Yeah because working 4 days a week is totally worth having your country destroyed by Muslims isn't it?

>>63999282
Mass immigration has nothing to do with Frances good worker rights and is a problem in every western nation no matter how bad their worker rights are.

>>63999221
grass is always greener I guess

I am not frenchman and would hate to be one (for various reasons) but I (a germoid) sometimes dream about what life in the US would be like
life in Yurop is sometimes pretty grim, you get like 4 decent months max in some years
other than that its dark, wet and cold

also everything is rulecucked obviously

>>63999291
in the US, you get absolutely no leave, your worker rights are minimal and everything has this fake feel, from social interactions to going to the store

>>63999205
> were a 4 day work week is common.
afaik they are just doing pilot-projects
and mostly for gubbermint workers (because they already work so hard lol)

>>63999289
Well it does a bit because the entitled boomers who got their 4 day work week demanded that France not look like racist chuds for not letting in all their colonial dregs.

>>63999289
Based and correct. We need less immigration in general AND less wage cuckery.

>>63999300
So your country with shitty worker rights has no immigration right?

>>63999303
Nevermind me Im just a pattern noticer little zoomie, let your prefrontal grow up a bit and reflect on it.

>>63999289
this.
it's even issue here in hungary, the door of balkan, even though we have pretty shitty worker rights but it's still better than in those thirdie countries.
Regular hungarian and euro companies are shipping here the filippinos and arabs, while the chinese are bringing their own,
Companies are the biggest supporters of mass immigration so they can replace you with cheap labor in those physical tasks where they are not able to replace you with AI
It has nothing to do with 4 day work weeks, more so if these companies would be avble they would definitely introduce 6 workdays per week

>>63998874
No need.
Our Allgemeine Waren, Lieferungs- und Dienstleistungs-Invasionsgeheimhaltungsprotokoll (ALDI) already conquered them.
The Panzers will move further east, leaving modern roads, supermarkets and supermarket-sized bread and bakery shops in their wake.

Their opening hours will be carefully crafted to drive normal people insane.

>>63999315
The industrial revolution was the corporations wet dream and they want it back.
>12 hours a day
>6 days a week
>no child labour laws
>on safety standards
>no regulations to stop you selling poisons or dumping waste in drinking water
The only way we avoid returning to that is learning form the French, when they pass a law you don't like surround parliament and make the riot cops remove you by force before the politicians can get out and go home.
The implicate threat of violence is the only thing that will make them tell donors no.

>>63999291
Immigrant here (UK). Living in America is playing life on easy. So easy my politics and understanding of the world have changed in a big way. I can only imagine how prosperous the EU and UK would be if either adopted a more American approach to work and economics. Also, yeah their way of doing healthcare is better. As expensive as it is, it makes the care you get from the NHS look absolutely third world.

>>63999297
You've never been to America. As for the limited leave and limited "rights" that shit is actually a good thing. Here you work hard and you keep what you kill because of low taxes and because we work so hard and there are so few "rights" the economy runs really hot so you can find a new job really easily. And when I say you work hard, holy shit do I mean it. Americans have the most insane work ethic. Mexicans have a superhuman work ethic. And people are way more easy going and open and authentic than most Euro cultures (with the exception of med-dwellers who are the best people on earth)
>I'm talking about the South. Idk about up norf where the Yankees reside. I have heard they are communists and homosexuals

>>63999392
>that shit is actually a good thing.
ah yes, I sure do love my 14 days of leave if I'm lucky, regular 10+ hr days (overtime unpaid btw) and death from stress when I'm 60 without having any time to actually *enjoy* my life and hobbies instead of slaving away, even if I do make marginally better money than in Europe

>>63999392
Anon stop being a neoliberal shill and just get private health coverage in the UK instead of using the NHS if you have the money.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/
I'll never understand people saying "socialized healthcare sucks" when you can get private if you want, the only differnece is those that can't afford private aren't sent into bankruptcy.

>>63999412
You're not American
>regular 10+ hr days (overtime unpaid btw)
Simply not a thing. Most blue collar guys love working OT as it's how they make their real money.
>even if I do make marginally better money than in Europe
It's not "marginally" it's significantly.

You're describing a charicature of America, not the reality on the ground.

lol

>>63999433
>Just pay twice for healthcare
I'd rather just pay once.
>Neoliberal
Oh no, I am something else altogether.

>>63999439
and the UK is a caricature of the rest of Europe. Chist I'd never go live there again and had a very nice well paying job.
t- belgian that's worked in the US, UK and France

>>63999439
>Simply not a thing.
wage theft, which often occurs as unpaid overtime, is rife in the USA, and you don't sound like, write like or seem like a bong
you're a larping American

u rike?

>>63999439
>It's not "marginally" it's significantly
US median income = $39,982 (2023)
UK median income = £35,004 / $47,056 (2023)
Is the cost of living so much lower in the US it makes up for getting $7k less a year?

>>63999485
ich liebe
Nächstes Mal ohne die Ungarn
t-4th generation moderate

>>63999439
>significantly better
lol, i just want some fucking peace and not to get stuck in the rat race that boomers set up here. i'd rather have some actual workers rights then die at my desk

>>63999467
>It's rife
Is it?

>>63999490
>gross not net

>>63999528
>Workers rights
Negotiate better.

>>63999677
>Negotiate better.
>just walk up and give the owner a firm handshake and youre in
Boomer detected, pretty much all worker's negotiating power got nuked by your generation. May your headstone be a urinal, for that is how it should be used.

>>63999691
>Boomer
I was born in 1991. We're at near full employment here in the US. If you can't negotiate better terms of employment, or find a job offering better terms, it's a (you) problem.

>>63998674
Some genuine americans are starting to not like it, because it's dawning on them that a Europe that doesn't need them might not be as willing to go along with the latest bad idea coming from the US.

>>63998826
Retarded take, unless you wanna claim that Trump caused the Ukraine War.

>>63999891
Eh, Europe is never going to go back to fascism as much as Euros like to LARP about it.

>>63997932
Euros don't, Yemenis and Gulf States do. You are grasping at straws looking for normal Euro US talk fight points but as usual you have been spamming this board for over a decade with this same shit so the vast majority of users here already know and have seen the plays. /k/ is one of the oldest boards (user age) on the site and that is why despite over 3 years of direct and active shilling you have failed to convert the user ase to Russian side. This is particularly noticeable during the Jews bombing Iran as your entire script team shut the fuck up for a few glorious days

>>63999891
If we go to war with China tomorrow, how many divisions will the EU be providing?

>>63997941
what with the psyops since 4chin got taken down. I am not suddenly turning lefty jsut because you spam it enough. If it turns to reddit tier her I am just migrating you nigger

>>63999433
Because 20-40% of your 50+% tax rate is direct funding for healthcare and it drains your ability to have choice and has failed to produce noticeably good results, and even worse still depends on the American market to actually drive innovation for new medicine

>20+ year type 1

test

>>63999910
0, get fucked

dest

>>63999928
This is why Europe is unreliable, they'll side with the commies every time.

>>63999928
Oh, I knew the answer before I asked.

>>63999084
Agreed. >>63998911 is a prime example.

this will be a repeat of op barbarossa

>>63999891
Something you and anyone in Europe reading this post should understand about the United States and especially its relationship with Europe is that the US does not actually have nearly as much interest as you think or is commonly discussed in dominating Europe. Our presence there is the result of European affairs spilling over to us. Our continued presence was out of desire to prevent it from happening again. Now that such a possibility has become remote, a large American presence in Europe is less desirable. Additionally, European nations ramping up its military and becoming more involved in outside affairs is considerably less threatening to the US than it seems at first. Executing such a foreign policy is very, very expensive in terms of not only money, but international and domestic political capital. Most of Europe, even France, has largely been shielded from incurring the costs of their policies by being a part of American coalitions. Once European powers have to act on their own, voters will start asking their leaders much harder questions about what's going on abroad and foreign nations, including other European powers, will target them for criticism and rapprochement, instead of the United States. This all actually works out in the United States' favor, as major European nations all need it as a economic, scientific, cultural, and diplomatic partner, even without its military might, while smaller nations will look to the more aloof US as a preferable alternative to potential domination by a Continental power, preventing its isolation and maintaining its position as the world's premier power.

Why do euros think they can nag and shame the US into being nice to them instead if genuinely acting like a friend, who understands their concerns, recognizes it has its own problems and looks to help do whats best for them in return?

>>63999933
>>63999927
>obvious shill obsessively monitoring this thread
Wonder who's behind these posts...

>>64000023
Europeans haven't really had to develop a culture of self-reliance like the Americans so they tend to have a somewhat immature and needy outlook.

>>63998891
>>63999897
> no! it cant be, the orange man may never be right!
let me guess
you are one of those redditnafoniggers?

trump warned yurop almost 9 years ago, told them to up their military spending
they laughed at him
now look where we are

should have listened to him

>>64000071
Man its like hooking up with a single mother who acts ungrateful after you help her out a little then sues you for child support for the niglets she already had before you arrived.

I remain right.

>>64000071
The story you tell yourself about self-reliance and muh self-made men are myths, you fucking retard. You will never be a millionaire.

>>64000186
> You will never be a millionaire.
it's really not that hard (even as a normie) when you are not paying like 60% taxes

average man in my country makes 60k (gross) per year in my country
if taxes were only 20% that would equal to about 48k / year
if you dont blow it on useless stuff early on, invest some of it you can end up with a million in your mid 40s

i am in my early 20s and have 150k (dough about 75k of that is thanks to gambling with memecoins)

>>64000186
Sounds like sour grapes from someone who will never own a plot of land

>>64000171
>Indonesia
you had one job

>>64000186
>You will never be a millionaire.
I'm already halfway there and I'm not even 30.

>>64000234
> being this new

>>63999910
>divisions
why are you fighting a land war in Asia?
Europe has 3 carrier groups and 6 amphibious landing groups plus a myriad of other combatants and support ships. The amphibious landing groups bringing their own ground forces ofc.
there have also been exercises in flying and supporting European fighters to Asia.
So depending on how much would be needed to keep russia in check the rest is available to help out.
Most of Europe's aid wouldn't be in the actual fighting because of the time frame and the complexity of getting European naval elements integrated in the pacific.
Instead European forces would take over other duties from the US to free up more of the US's own assets.
IF for some reason you would need European ground forces, by which point you'd have pretty much lost the war already. The French, Spanish and Italians could provide one division each without draining the border with russia. The bongs realistically can't provide a full division but I don't see them sitting out the war.

>>64000234
Hi newfriend

>>64000242
Russia can't even handle Ukraine and you're acting like you need to keep forces in Europe to keep them out.

>>63999910
why are you going to war with china
did they really attack you? In which capacity? Was an actualy NATO Country Attacked and Was ist an actual attack or just another Seven-Eleven "Afghans did it"?

im gonna keep it real
i would definetly not be fond of getting involved in some shit like Chinks invading Taiwan
and I find all this fearmongering around this possiblity quite ridiculous considering that, to this day, we still keep giving them gibs (like free Uni-scholarships for chinks) and moving our industry to their place

>>64000286
>i would definetly not be fond of getting involved in some shit like Chinks invading Taiwan
So then why should America help out with Ukraine?

>>63999490
Your numbers are wrong
I found source claiming about that value you give for the UK for "Median annual earnings for full-time employees in the United Kingdom from 1999 to 2024 " so obviously that will be higher than the median income due to part time workers. Similar US figures are $60k.

>>64000023
because Europe has shaped it's defense policy on the assumption of US aid. Not in the "hur dur freeloading" but in not investing in certain areas that the US was already investing in. Trusting on the NATO frame work to allow the partner nations to achieve more by specializing. Just as the US head of NATO has been asking them to do for decades. So they don't have the satellites, they don't have the AWACS, the don't have the refueling fleet ect. that the US has.
Trump vacillating about the US's NATO commitment is the US saying "we told you to gimp yourselves in certain areas and to trust us instead, well fuck you never should have trusted us". On top of that collective defense rides and dies on the credibility of the partner states. By vacillating he is increasing the likelihood of a third party trying to start shit.

>>64000297
Eh, don't give them too much credit, a lot of it was just straight up freeloading where they weren't even providing the minimum recommended funding to their own militaries. Them not having an air force of 5th generation fighter jets is acceptable. Them not paying for anything is not.

>>64000290
1. literally no-one is forcing you and you still manage to profit from it
2. there is a difference between lend-leasing ukraine without actually sending troops and a real-full on total war with China

>>64000286
Did you miss the news a week ago about China messing with a German AWACS over Yemen? Or how about that China has been helping Russia over the whole course of the war? China is not Europe's friend.

>>64000276
it isn't about being able to beat russia
it's about not having to fight them if possible and minimizing the damage they can cause if you do have to fight them
>>64000290
because much as it is in Europe's self interest to keep china out of Taiwan it's in the US's interest to keep the russians out of Ukraine.
and the you know security grantee the US gave to the Ukrainians in return for them getting rid of their nukes

>>64000301
> Them not paying for anything is not.
didnt we pay you guys like one bn USD per F-35?

>>64000308
> China is not Europe's friend.
and where did I say that it was?

and yes, they help Russia out
but what do we do, besides screech, about it?
nothing
about 600 Million Euros in Support for Chinese Students in Germany just last year

>>64000320
>why are you going to war with china
>did they really attack you? In which capacity?
>Was an actualy NATO Country Attacked and Was ist an actual attack or just another Seven-Eleven "Afghans did it"?
They have made themselves an enemy of NATO, not just the United States. We, as in we collectively, should be prepared.

>>64000301
>straight up freeloading
my nigger what danger where they in that their gimped defense spending couldn't reasonably handle?
they still have 2.5+million men in uniform counting reserves, that's about double the US's standing army and still more than the standing army and the national guard combined including the coast guard.
>>64000308
it isn't, but it's also not their rival. Who controls the pacific isn't a life or death thing to them.
they prefer the US does but they can deal with a chink dominated Asia. The US very much wouldn't like a chinese navy beyond the second island chain because they can then pose a direct threat to the US. But they'd still be half a world away form Europe.

>>64000336
>We, as in we collectively, should be prepared.
but when the US is saying that it may or may not honor art.5 that kind fucks over the "we" part.

>>63998245
I don't think you're ever going to make progress if the best healthcare system you can advocate for is a clone of the US system, which is ridiculed the world over.

>>63997117
US is only in Europe to man the airbases providing logistics to Middle East sand ops, that is for the interests of Israel. Without those bases American reach to the sand box is beheaded. You really believe those bases in Europe are protecting Europe? Kek.

>>64000336
> We, as in we collectively, should be prepared.
mindless and meaningless phrases

imagine Britian in 1938 going
> oh dis Hitler guy is quite worrysome, better prepare for war
while actually increasing their reliance on german industiral goods

>>64000364
everyone is trading more with china, welcome to the modern world.
and no the US putting tariffs on every other nation in the world isn't going to encourage them to trade less with china

>>63998863
AMEDD here. That hospital will never fucking close or be reduced in size. It, Tripler (Hawaii) and BAMC (Texas) are the three key Army hospitals enabling overseas operations.

>>64000364
chart is about Chink-German Trade balance btw.
Germoney imported about 66 Billion Euros more goods from china than they exportet to them
picrel is total import / export combined

>>64000380
> everyone is trading more with china, welcome to the modern world.
amazing
so why should I be a good goim and die in some stupid war against them when apparently we cant even be bothered to decrease our reliance on them because it somehow is a god-given rule that you just gotta move your whole industry to some asian hellhole?

>>64000346
Luckily for you, China already decided on its own to take a hostile stance towards Europe, so it's best to be ready.

>>64000395
we shouldn't, but you can't just point at it like it's some sort of got you
if the US was serious about trying to ween the world off of trade with chine then perhaps it shouldn't imposing random tariffs on everybody. or back out of whatever deal it's negotiators have made over them because Trump wants a soundbite
the chinks are just sitting there laughing as the US drives more trade towards them

>>64000398
why, the pacific isn't part of art.5, the US just told them to get fucked and then imposed at 20% tariff on them.
why should they then send men to go and die for something that is far more important to the US than them?
all the chinks have to do is look less hostile than the US. Something that Trump appears to be doing his hardest to sell Europe on

>>63999898
Yeah, even the AFD are only foreign/faggot hating neolibs.

>>64000398
> so it's best to be ready.
china is planning to take over europe
but not by using its military
they buy houses, plot, even wells en masse
they infiltrate the country, not the way arabs and africans do it
but in a much more refined way
literally every second Uni Professor I know has a chink wife and / or embraces socialism

... but pointing that out is ofc lacist

>>64000364
>while actually increasing their reliance on german industiral goods
it's not like everyone stopped trading with Germany in the 1940s
well, on paper they did
the blockade from 39 to 45 was kinda trash and businesses just circumvented it through colones or uninvolved countries

Germany & Italy still had plenty of British, US, French etc. products and vice versa
more interesting they still honored oil / coal delivery contract
not like Russia today...

>>64000388
if you look into the imports and exports it's vastly beneficial to Germany
we import mostly consumer electronics / goods, textiles and other really low margin, high volume stuff like base chemicals or metals
while we exports high margin machines, pharmaceutical / medical products, specialized electronics, cars etc.

what kinda turned got worse were capital flows
(that thing the current US gov doesn't understand)
for the last ~30y capital flows negated any deficit we had with China
now if got more equal and Germany is currently running an actual deficit in some years, in others it's still balanced though

>>64000314
You still need to pay the minimum NATO % of GDP on your military.

>>64000337
>my nigger what danger where they in that their gimped defense spending couldn't reasonably handle?
If they're in no danger then why are they increasing their military spending?

>>63997103
I would like about 500k would be the right number.

>>64000483
> it's not like everyone stopped trading with Germany in the 1940s
the countries involved certainly did
even neutral countries didn't trade as much anymore once SHTF for germany (don't have the data currently but german tungsten was basically steadily declinding after they made a one time purchase from spain in 1940 (?) iirc)

there is a reason why they awarded Iron Crosses to Blockade runners


> Germany & Italy still had plenty of British, US, French etc. products and vice versa
name 5 (Products of companies that were "Seized" and continued to operate under new managment do not count)

> more interesting they still honored oil / coal delivery contract
name 5

>>64000518
because there's a difference between being able to handle at great cost and not at great cost

>>64000297
nobody told Europeans to gimp themselves, at no point did the US or NATO command tell anyone not to have organic indigenous capabilities to at least plug gaps or serve as redundancies, yet they did because even Northern Europeans have the work ethic and forward planning of Southern Europeans when it comes to defense, that is 'Why worry about something that's not going to happen?" "If it happens we're screwed anyway".

And it's NOT simply about fucking hardware procurement. Reruitment numbers in Europe have been shit even taking into account the peace dividends and downsizing after the 90s. They treat their militaries like shit because as societies they don't see them as essential at all, they don't hold them up to standards and they don't wanna shell out cash for recruitment, drilling or even housing personnel. When it comes to actual procurement, you have cases like Germany slow-rolling everything for the sake of pleasing blatantly anti-national political sectors in parliament, you have countries utterly concerned with gay commie shit like accomodations for women and muslims in service, and you have a huge amount of soldiers who haven't shot their guns in years. European countries have politicized their services and made them the butt-end of their endless budgetary and ideological squables then they act like it's the US's fault because the US treats killing people and invading countries seriously and doesn't slack, so they pick up THEIR slack.

>>64000611
Ukraine is able to handle Russia at not great cost and it's the fucking poorest country in Europe.

>>63997088 (OP)
Probably killing their own people to let more quality immigrants in.

>>63999999
>>64000000

>>64000707
>at not great cost
they have suffered over 100k killed, their cities are being drone bombed and their economy has shrunk something insane.
>>64000671
>nobody told Europeans to gimp themselves, at no point did the US or NATO command tell anyone not to have organic indigenous capabilities to at least plug gaps or serve as redundancies
but they did, repeatedly
the US also told them, repeatedly that having armed forces designed to beat the russians in Europe was retarded and they should change over to expeditionary warfare so they could provide them more aid in the sand pit
>as societies they don't see them as essential at all
they weren't really honestly all they where being used for was peacekeeping, disaster relief and helping the US in the sandpit.
the countries and populations don't want to get involved in military adventures. Even if wanted the US would shut them down if they didn't get US approval. If the US approves the US is probably going to be doing it anyway.
>political rambling
lol

>>64000772
>they have suffered over 100k killed
They've only suffered 50k killed.

>>64000784
>They've only suffered 50k killed
and 50k killed isn't a big cost?
that 8 time US loses during the GWOT

>>64000707
Ukraine receives substantial aid from NATO and aligned states.

>>63997103
Imagine thinking high-tech war even remotely resembles Ukraine, where Europe's poorest nation is being invaded by an Asiatic HIVe World that is currently riding donkeys through minefields.

>>64000772
>the US also told them
>they should change over to expeditionary warfare so they could provide them more aid in the sand pit
somehow that always get ignored by americans that cry muh euros should pay for their own defense

the US gov literally said for 2 decades that they protect Europe from Russia
and euros should instead buy stuff for middle east missions

which "coincidentally" also protected american weapons manufacturers from more (international) competitions
as the low volume purchases in europe were filled by like 60% from US companies in the 2000s and 2010s

>>63997384
>>The US doesn't have an obligation to defend Ukraine
>>The US wouldn't balk at the attempt to show everyone how much they overmatch third world nations
>These are contradictory, I know the US has no obligation to help Ukraine but if you want to show the west is ready to throw down that was the place to do it. Instead Biden was half assed and Trump has been actively helping Russia by delaying congressionally approved aid.
this is not at all contradictory. If the US gives equipment, they aren't showing their might and it causes grumbling at home because "muh taxes".
If the US or its allies are attacked it can both DIRECTLY show off its abilities and only the biggest retards would grumble at a defensive war.

>>64000186
>You will never be a millionaire.
If you're a white-collar worker in the US and you don't break a mil valuation in assets by retirement you're a fucking retard. My house alone is more than half that figure.

>>63997837
>>63997856
>>63997888
>yes I agree
>I agree
>good point I agree
jesus fuck its so transparant.

>>64000887
>mil valuation in assets
lel you can just smear paint on a white canvas, call it modern art and price it at two mil, grats you are now holding 2 mil in assets, with your portfolio having a majority position into the high art circles.

>>63997837
>lets build the bomb, allow Pine Gap to keep operating for soft power and make it clear we aren't getting involved in the coming Sino-American war.
>we aren't getting involved in the coming Sino-American war.
remember, they always let the mask slip eventually!

>>63998245
bro, I think they are retarded faggots too but that is some straight fat cat dicksucking you just did.
Neoliberals aren't your friends and neither are corporations.

>>64000926
He's right though and being right is not cocksucking. Like why the fuck would I be mad at Elon because he earned a gorillion dollars instead of being mad at some Congress critter for spending a gorillion dollars we don't have buying votes.

>>64000351
>which is ridiculed the world over.
its affordability and access is ridiculed. Anyone shitting on its actual quality is fucking delusional.
Unfortunately I do feel that a reason it is so quality is because the access is restricted compared to a UHC system.

>>64000932
because Elon wants infinity indians because it benefits his bottom line so he uses his gorillion dollars to buy politicians?

>>64000934
Access isn't ridiculed either. Its more accessible than any social system. If you're a granny and you want a new hip in the US just pay the $$ and the operation will happen tomorrow. In the EU or CAN you sit on a list for three years and most applicants get declined.

And we have a safety net for the poor. If you're indigent and you go to the ER its fucking free.

>>64000940
Immigration is a separate issue to the one we're discussing. I dont like Elons H1B1 stance, but thats unrelated to whether or not we should tax him into oblivion just because he's really good at generating revenue.

>>63998464
>not happy with the fact Europe's "pulling their own weight",
im quite happy with europe pulling its own weight, I just don't trust Germans to do it because they always struck me as having greater aspirations. It doesn't help though that most of the actual rara I hate americans I encounter online who actually are europeans are germans.

>>64000896
No, you'd actually have to sell it at least once for it to get that valuation.

>>64000864
it's not a MiC conspiracy
it's the US thinking that the rest of NATO and Europe wasn't pulling enough weight. It didn't even start with Afghanistan but what the invasion of Iraq. A lot of European nations didn't take part in it and it drained troops that where needed for Afghanistan.
The US started to complain about the Europeans not doing enough. The public had turned decisively anti-war with the Iraq invasion and so there was no political will to do more. Even when some European countries did want to do more they lacked the logistics to sustain it and the US understandably didn't want to give up some of their logistic bandwidth to support troops that where less useful to them.
all ofc because the US invoked art.5 something that was envisioned to be used in case of a conventional war, not for a terrorist attack by a non state actor.
only for the US to now say that it may or may not honor art.5 depending on if Trump feels like you've spend enough, or the rest of them have, or he's just not feeling it right now, or he does want to do it but someone in the DoD decides the US shouldn't so nothing happens until Trump finds out from the press that nothing is happening

>>64000949
>rara I hate americans I encounter online who actually are europeans are germans.
that just because the french just keep to their own bit of the internet and they are to self obsessed to hate anyone else

>>64000961
>only for the US to now say that it may or may not honor art.5 depending on if Trump feels like you've spend enough, or the rest of them have, or he's just not feeling it right now, or he does want to do it but someone in the DoD decides the US shouldn't so nothing happens until Trump finds out from the press that nothing is happening
Its been 10 years and you dudes still haven't figured out how this man operates. Its astounding. Truly.

Anon, he's bullshitting to get Euros to spend more money. Obviously he is committed to NATO because we just moved battlegroups forward into the Balts, Poland and Romania. Omg.

>>64000966
>still haven't figured out
that's not the issue, I know he's a braggart ect. but he undermines the trust that the alliance is build on
the certainty that the US will get involved that keep the russians from even thinking about trying something funny with a NATO member
it also undermines support of NATO in the US makes openly basing it a viable political talking point

>>64000941
>If you're a granny and you want a new hip in the US just pay the $$ and the operation will happen tomorrow.
okay but bob who is 40 and has been a working man his whole life does not have $$
>And we have a safety net for the poor. If you're indigent and you go to the ER its fucking free.
Bob makes more than 20k a year and so does not qualify for medicaid. He goes to the ER and now is 140,000 dollars in debt. His wages will now be garnished for the rest of his life

>>64000934
>>64000941
most of the ridicule is due to people never having experienced the US medical system and they just hear about the absurd cases that end up in their news or social media feed.
and the same goes for how Americans see the health care systems of other countries like you saying there's 3 year waiting lists for hip surgery

>>64000966
>g to get Euros to spend more money.
In the most retarded and destructive way possible?
Are immolating tariffs parts of that master plant to revive Europe? or his chaotic decision that the financial and companies aren't liking at all.
Come on man...

>>64000974
>the certainty that the US will get involved that keep the russians from even thinking about trying something funny with a NATO member
anon I don't want to bothsides too much but in this very thread we had anons asking euros if they would join in support of the US against china and they basically got a "LOL" reaction. Americans see that and get indignant just like how euros see Trump calling them free loaders and get indignant.

>>64000981
>and the same goes for how Americans see the health care systems of other countries like you saying there's 3 year waiting lists for hip surgery
ehhh I do got some canadian friends complaining about being 9 months deep into the waiting list and I compare that to my own experience where I got surgery for my gallbladder 4 days after they found the stone.

>>64000794
50k for Ukraine is minimal.

>>64000983
I will say that if you as a euro get upset at the possibility of the US not joining a war against Russia but balk at the suggestion of your nation joining against China "because they are far away and wouldn't effect us much", you might want to evaluate your value system

>>64000976
the hospital will try to get 5k in actual costs they've from him and then write off the rest of it as a loss because it keeps taxes down.
the 140k bill is the bell they'd send over to his insurers who would also write it off as a loss to keep taxes down
the problem being that the hospital will try to get every cent they can above their cost if they can and proving that you are broke without fining for bankruptcy is a hassle so you are left in limbo for years and the stress of it can kill people. especially since the kind of people this happens to tend to not be the best educated
there's also hospitals that don't work with insurance at all and they'll just bill you 6k
I like those and had some minor surgery done there, great treatment, kind staff took about two weeks to get it done
t-yourafag that's lived in the US

>>64000983
>Taiwan
Not covered by NATO.

>>64001010
Neither is Ukraine.

>>64001020
I don't see an a blatant act of aggression against Taiwan. Maybe you should check your eyesight because China isn't carpet bombing Taipei.

>>64001028
So then you'll help Taiwan if China does invade?

>>64000983
I understand how Europeans such as my self not being gungho on the chinese might offend some Americans. But NATO wasn't made to contain the chinese, it is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization not the South Pacific Treaty Organization. The US is free to make a treaty organization for the Pacific and to shop around for members. I'm sure they'll get at least the French and the Brits to sign on, possibly the Italians as well.
OR it could try to get the NATO treaty amended to lift the territorial constraints originally put there by the US to avoid getting dragged into any overseas European thing like the Indian invasion of Goa

Personally I'm very much so supportive of helping the US to the best we can to contain china. But just like after the Iraq war Trump has turned public opinion against it.
The current defense expenditure boost would mean that there is more that Europe could do to help but it's also fixating everyone back on defending the continent not going and fighting half the world away.
Trump used the monkies paw, he's gotten more European defense spending but not on what the US would like them to considering the global picture.

>>64001010
congrats anon, you are in the same position as the americans who stopped ukraine funding so I guess you don't have any hard feelings about it?
>>64001028
what is this "I didn't have breakfast this morning" shit?

>>64001035
>But NATO wasn't made to contain the chinese
Ukraine isn't a part of NATO

>>64001035
>I understand how Europeans such as my self not being gungho on the chinese might offend some Americans. But NATO wasn't made to contain the chinese, it is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization not the South Pacific Treaty
anon, the name of NATO is based more on its founding member's location than its function. If India declared war on Britain, NATO would still have been obligated to help despite India not being in the north atlantic.

>>64001044
but you post wasn't about Ukraine it was about
>Americans see that and get indignant just like how euros see Trump calling them free loaders and get indignant.
So if China invades Taiwan you'll get European weapons deliveries, strongly worded letters, offers to mediate ect. Just like the US has done for Ukraine.
Or are you expecting European nations to declare war over Taiwan and send it's meant o go fight and die because the US has given aid to Ukraine?

>>64001032
Will they? and will they attack US troops in Taiwan?
That's just using an hypothetical to justify a unilateral escalation because the US fears losing their total technological hegemony (the US can't do a Plaza Accord plus sanctions to corner and neuter China) by pacific means.

>>64001061
>Will they?
Will Russia invade Ukranie?

>>64001057
>So if China invades Taiwan you'll get European weapons deliveries, strongly worded letters, offers to mediate ect. Just like the US has done for Ukraine.
anon you don't seem to be getting it. No one expects europe to defend Taiwan for being Taiwan. The understanding is that China attacks the US due to its defense of Taiwan. Your allegory would only make sense if Russia attacked a Polish force defending Ukraine and the US only sent weapons and letters.

>>64001064
Playing the dumbass will not save your canned argument orange™

>>64001073
>>64001073
>That's just using an hypothetical to justify a unilateral escalation because the US fears losing their total technological hegemony
This is what you said about Russia for decades.

>>64001052
But India did attack a member nation when it invaded Goa, Portugal is a founding nation.
but art.5 only cover Europe and North America
"The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that,..."
and that limitation was put there by the US because it didn't want it to be a global commitment binding it to defend European colonial possessions.
Just like the Argentinians invading the Falklands wasn't relevant to NATO.
So Britain is free to just say "sorry old chump we had to get the islands back on our own so you'll just have as well, we'll share intel ofc"

>>64001072
Europe would only be bond if the chinks attack the US in continental north america. Because that's what NATO covers. We know terrorism counts, but does cyber? Probably not since the russians have stage cyber attacks on Europeans and in continental US but that didn't trigger anything
keep in mind that it was the US that place the territorial limitation not the Europeans.
The US wrote it so the chinks can nuke Hawaii and it wouldn't force Europe to do shit.

>>63997138
Real life isn't a map painting game. Invading Kalinigrad gets you nothing but a polluted shithole full of retarded alcoholics that you're not allowed to ethnically cleanse or euthanize because that would be "mean"

I just want to add that again I personally think that we as Europeans should help the US against China with everything we can.
And I'm fairly convinced that if Germany, Italy and Spain want to just sit it out they wouldn't have had a joined exercise flying fighters over to South East Asia.
But that NATO doesn't cover US overseas territories of Hawaii and that the Alaskan islands would be a major grey zone. Just like NATO didn't cover Goa or the Falklands and the US didn't get involved in those.
furthermore that the rhetoric used by Trump and his administration is souring public opinion of the US in Europe.

>>63997088 (OP)
They're going for the 3rd

>>64001084
You can check their defence spending to see if they're destroying their culture and economy with militaristic fanatism.
Meanwhile the US want's to force an obvious military escalation, unilateral. +5% of military expending in current year is going back to 1970s levels of expending when there's no active war at large scale.

It's obvious what side wants an offensive, the US doesn't fear current China but does fear future China.
>inb4 collapse in 2 years, demographic crisis
Pyrrhic tactics are just a passive way to cope with reality.

>>64000772
>>64000864
>>64000961
Again, it's not about hardware alone and wether they have tanks or fighter jets, it's that Euros don't invest in defense in general in ways that cripple readiness even WITHIN the niches they might fall into. Germans and Brits cannot meet recruitment goals and spent every year before 2024 turning away people who weren't diverse enough because they saw, and to a massive degree still see their militaries as performative spaces for politics. They downsized equipment and vehicle pools to respond to this new "reality" and then they still neglected that. They don't train, they don't buy fuel or ammo and retire things they absolutely cannot afford to retire because they don't have the capability to replace them like ships. The recent burst of defense investment is going not into rapid acquisitions but into figuring out if they can salvage what they have at all and how first.

The US military is not doing much better but it never bottomed out on recruitment and materiel as badly to the point of not having anything to defend its own borders with. In a lot of ways, European countries have become like Canada in that their problems have become so chronic the political will to fix it will never be there because the bill is simply too high.

>>63999910
3 large aircraft carriers + escorts and the full production capacity of European shipyards assuming article 5 gets activated

>>64000784
uh oh
who is going to tell him?

>>64001538
just look at the countries that border russia, non of that. why? because they have a reason to keep their armed forces strong and on task.
germany didn't have a reason for it's armed forces so it went wonky.
if you have or are near to a famine your department of agriculture will be important and focused on maximizing food output. If you live in a sea of plenty it gets wonky and starts faffing of about bio agriculture, supporting nigger owned and operated farms because farming is racis ect.
now there is a task and defense is important all that gay shit will be getting shoved aside because results mater again.