>2015
>The PLAAF is mainly comprised of flanker clones, only a few domestic fighters in service.
>No 5th gen fighters in service
>Completely dependent on Russian engines and avionics
>Even their flanker clones couldn't be argued to be better than their Russian counterparts
>No tankers, barely any transport aircraft or awacs
>SAMs are just a copy of Russian systems
>The PLAN is large but is mainly comprised of small missile boats and frigates, 100% a brown water force
>Has a carrier, but they didn't build it but bought it from Ukraine
>Not a single type 55, only has like 10 outdated destroyers in service
>Only a handful of nuclear submarines, all of which are dogshit
>Could argue that the Japanese and SK navy is more powerful
>Not a single system could be considered "cutting edge" or superior to Western or Russian hardware

Fast forward 10 years

>2025
>2 fully domestic 5th gen fighters in service, working on 2 6th gen fighters
>Hundreds of J-20s in service, producing a hundred a year
>Flanker clones are universally agreed a massive upgraded compared to their Russian counterparts
>Has some of the best A2A missiles in the world
>Has their own SOTA engine program
>Churning out decent modern SSN at a rapid pace of 3 a year
>Has a catobar carrier with an EM catapult
>Has the largest navy, with 50 destroyers in service, the type 055 is probably the most powerful destroyer in active service
>Undoubtedly the 2nd most powerful navy in the world and a blue water navy

What a difference 10 years makes huh? I was actually surprised at how shit China was 10 years ago when I was reading up on their modernization program. In 2015, you could argue that Russia was a overall more powerful force, and that the Japan/SK navy still mogged the PLAN by a decent margin. They have come a long way. Their ground forces also went though a massive upgrade, but not as profound as their air force or navy. Interesting to see China in another 10 years.

Every chink shill thread is another mainland Chinese cutie I will remove from the dating pool and spoil by showing them photos of my big American cock

Can we please just range ban india and china?

>>64005835 (OP)
It makes redditoids who get their vicarious Orwellian power-jollies by watching NATO tech explode russians insecure so prepare for janitorial censorship or waves of "implessive" spam.

>>64005856
>improve internet quality by 9000%
Can't have that.

>>64005835 (OP)
nothing will probably ever beat the US military industrial complex explosion at the start of world war 2. Go look at the numbers, they're completely absurd. ~7000 active warships by the end of the war, with like 110 of them being aircraft carriers.

>>64005856
>he thinks it’s people in China
the gookshill that wouldn’t stop screeching about Japan was on the US east coast

>>64005835 (OP)
>"2 fully domestic 5th gen fighters in service, working on 2 6th gen fighters"
>none of them have stealth
implessive

>>64005835 (OP)
>glowup

>>64005871
The way asians hate each other is so funny. I was playing foxhole and some dude asked this chinese guy it he was japanese and he replied in broken english:
>NO, ME NOT JAPANESE. JAPANESE ARE DOG

>>64005835 (OP)
>two domestic 5th gen fighters in service
4th gen
>working on 2 6th gen fighters
4th gen
you can always tell these guys are obsessed with easthetics
>well it LOOKS like a stealth plane therefore it must be!
>ooh this one's tailless, just like all the 6th gen renders those defense companies showed me!
>has the largest navy
not even close lol, tiny in terms of tonnage compared to the US.

other than that, yeah their glowup is palpable, it'd be even better if it wasn't marred by constant shilling activity on the net. chinks have done a good job so i wonder why they go out of their way to oversell it when it's already implessive what they've actually accomplished.

>>64005862
>nooo please just let me spam my narrative
nope, you've used up your good will, faggot, stop acting like a victim.

>>64005862
Indeed, how dares this American website oppress and hurt the feelings of chinese people so badly. Just let them spam waves of worthless low-effort propaganda narratives in peace!

>>64005867
I think krauts are more subhuman than chinks but they were still able to do a lot of damage.
krauts were given only 6 years - 6. years. - before they were crushed. they were on the cusp of getting nukes. they were crushed just in time. it isn't fair or logical that chinks are being given so much time. I know the us is preparing a war but it really needs to happen sooner rather than later because the more you wait the more damaging it ill be.

>>64005835 (OP)
>Has a catobar carrier with an EM catapult
One that we've yet to see launch anything? The one that they're keeping under literal wraps? or did I miss something?
>Undoubtedly the 2nd most powerful navy in the world
Debatable, the japanese are definitely in contention

>>64005835 (OP)
>>The PLAAF is mainly comprised of flanker clones, only a few domestic fighters in service.
They're still using derivatives or their bad copy of the MiG-21, modded MiG-19 and their few non-canceled big projects like the J-8 and JH-7. The Flanker was their only effective plane.
>>No 5th gen fighters in service
But working in 2 LO fighters and about to field the PL-15/17.

>>Completely dependent on Russian engines and avionics
China preferred western and local avionics since the 80-90s, the first thing they did to flankers was to replace the radar.

>>Even their flanker clones couldn't be argued to be better than their Russian counterparts
The initial run of the J-11 was flawed and had QC problems.

More importantly all their tanks were T-55 with T-62 improvements and some improvements of the T-72. They knew their tanks were trash. The Type 96 was an attempt to unfuck the 1960 trash and the 99 to create something more western, but before the 99A it wasn't really good (they didn't like the soviet influence on the engine+transmission).

>Has their own SOTA engine program
The WS-10 and WS-15 (as successor of the WS-6 flop) have been in development since the mid 1980s.

China pre 1990s cancelled most of their complex and expensive projects, that's something causes them a lot of seethe. For example not being able to produce the licensed Spey after the late 1970s.

>>64006132
They were absolute not on the cusp of getting nukes.

>>64006170

>>64006559
>dropping the TWR bomb
I'm still waiting for the chinese to show the real TIT of the F135 and kill the bs figure of 3,600ºF. I think it's close to 3100ºF +- 70ºF.

If we do not count either Pacific or Atlantic US as a stand alone then the 2nd most powerful Navy in the world is Japan's. This is before we remind chang here that the Royal Navy is starting to float with them. Basically the United State's allies mog China and Russia combined seven fold. Then you can get to the United State's capabilities which are soon to be interplanetary. This is not hyperbole.

I am John Smith from Ohio Oblast and this has demoralized me

I am Jon Snow from Buffalo, NY. I am NOT demoralized and fully support President Donald J. Trump. Epstein did nothing wrong btw. The libs killed him to smear President Donald J. Trump.

>>64006572
I felt bad for that african guy working with them. Very clearly a smart dude considering he taught himself Chinese to fluency whilst living in a shithole with little resources, but he's stuck living in ooga booga land.

>>64005835 (OP)
No, not really. The J-20s have been in development since the 1990s, meaning it's been nearly 30 years.

probably, yeah. especially as it's during peacetime.

i think they may be moving too fast overall, which can have its own problems. but since the west is literally bankrolling them, maybe they won't run into those issues.

>>64005835 (OP)
lol

>>64007060
to add, you just need to look at their nuclear arsenal and systems expansion over the past 5 years. they went from uk/france-tier, to almost on their way to mad.

>>64005835 (OP)
America did more, faster in the 40's

>>64007102
stuff is more complex today, so it's hard to compare 1 for 1. you need to compare china to cold war-era ussr or us to get a more accurate picture.

>>64005835 (OP)
>>64005881
Every day we stride further from God

>>64007145
For us yes probably but for a dude in the 40s making a B29 with remote controlled turrets was probably as hard as making the f35 today

Catching up to tech already developed by others is way easier and not so implessive. The US in the 40s with the B29 and the atomic bomb are leagues away from China stealing tech documents from other countries. The only thing implessive in China is their cheap and fast production, and that alone is pretty cool but stop pretending you can into innovation Chang

I’m really bored with discussing serious military matters on /k/. Most anons just care about the least important things like numbers of equipment and paper specs, and have literally nothing to say when pointed out that the PLA is not a combat organization. The equipment is meaningless without a combat organization which uses them, it’s just the usual peasant kingdom industrial corruption, nothing to actually do with military matters. Can we instead talk about the PLAs deployments, operations and training? No? Then count me out.

>>64007182
I'm Taiwanese I can tell you they are training pretty well sadly, the PLAAF is entering our territory every fucking day and they train blockading the island every 6 month on average. But that's boring as fuck to talk about that honestly

>>64006559
>M-MUH FAKE ENGINE
lol embarrassing cope behaviour, identified and known bad faith chinkshill.

>>64007172
But they're not just catching up, they are also developing cutting edge tech of their own. And investing in projects that nobody else is doing like their ground effect aircraft.
>>64005960
Even the USAF say that it's 5th and 6th gen. This level of coping is just pathetic.

So are the chinese sending paid spammers to do all these threads or is it chinese autists doing it for free.

>>64006162
>>64006578
This guys are trolling, but there's a surprising amount of "experts" that actually think the Japanese navy is stronger than china

>>64007593
>So are the chinese sending paid spammers to do all these threads or is it chinese autists doing it for free.
It's a bit of both really, plus all the turdies and /pol/troons switching to team chinkistan now that russia, hamas, iran, etc. have proven to be failures

>>64007690
What country is next after the invasion of Taiwan goes up in flames?

>>64007203
i find things like that interesting, anon
just 2 days ago i read about a recent exercise carried out by the taiwanese military where one of the generals acting as the PLA/PLAN/whatever commander invaded the east coast with an amphibious landing and the defenders were defeated within a day or two - did that happen?

>>64005835 (OP)
You cannot beat industry and engineering with social services and finance.
Simple as that.

>>64006132
Imagine being a negrified American animal and saying that the Germans are subhumans lol.

>>64007876

>>64007988

>>64007583
and yet it's not, it's not as stealthy as western aircraft and doesn't have the same kind of situational awareness, it's not a 5th gen, sorry.

>>64007583
>and investing in projects that nobody else is doing like their ground effect aircraft
because ground effect aircraft are retarded, and a massive waste of resources that *MIGHT* work in the taiwanese strait for a few days out of the entire year.

>>64007876
good thing the west has all the industry and engineering that makes the world go around then, shame for chinks and their shills.

>>64005835 (OP)

Dont worry, America's totally invisible 6th gen fighter will handle it.

>>64008146
he'll end up with spacex being expropriated...

>>64008146
LMAO

>>64008146
I thought he stopped with the Epstein stuff after he kowtowed to Trump>

>>64007864
I'm not aware of that, if that's from last week that's probably fake since the whole island was completing invasion drills (I made a thread about it if you are interested >>63994926) the commandment was way too busy to do simulated exercises. But that's not because I live there that I would know everything, the government tends to hide a lot of things that would make the population panic here.

>>64008142
>good thing the west has all the industry
yeah, about that...

>>64008142
Can you show me that industry please? Is it in this room right now?

>>64008251
*the industry left the chatroom*

>>64007583
>even
Of course the USAF is gonna say their is a credible threat, if China or Russia didn't exist they'd be saying whatever dogshit Iran or North Korea cooks up is a massive threat for funding
It might well be a (meaningless LM marketing buzzword) but using their rival to claim it is, when their rival has an expressed interest in seeking funding is fucking stupid
Although being fucking stupid is clearly par for the course with you, dimwit

Ror, rmao

>>64007686
ching chong cope
>muh fishing boats are missile boats too now
lol

>>64008251
you're using it right now, as you shill
>b-but muh t-taiwan
wouldn't be anything without euv machines from the west.
same goes for most forms of resource extraction, automation, and farming.
>B-B-BUT CHINKS DO FINAL ASSEMBLY
yes, you do, good chink, but you're going to be replaced soon as you're no longer the cheapest to do final assembly in.
we'll send our components to be assembled in a different country and hopefully they won't develop an inferiority complex like you did.

>>64008362
>wouldn't be anything without euv machines from the west.
lmao even

chinks are unironically one of the smartest countries, along with russians
I just hope when both of their shitty fake economies finally implode (in two weeks of course) due to mismanagement and population loss, they'll eventually get to a more progressive form of government rather than autocracy
>What a difference 10 years makes huh?
please consult the graph
>Interesting to see China in another 10 years.
yes, lol

>>64008378
>lmao even
it is very amusing watching people be angry about this fact, if you want to build a chip factory, you'll have to go to ASML. lol.

>>64008362
EUV is unecessary for military related stuff.
28nm or even 192nm stable mature nodes that even a 4th tier fab can churn out is what goes in every hypersonic missile.

>>64005835 (OP)
I'm pretty sure it would be USA between
1935-1945.

>>64008387
>is what goes in every hypersonic missile
implessive
too bad hypersonic missiles are a meme technology, especially for hitting ships, since they're blind as bats on the way down and there is still no way to fix this missing part of the killchain.

>>64008203
thanks for the thread, i checked it out and there's some interesting stuff in there
anyway, i found that that thing i read so here it is
if it's fake like you say it is then that is very interesting

>>64008399
meant for >>64008394

>>64008399
you may want to read more about when and where radio-blackout happens.

protip: It's related with shaping.

>>64008404
>when and where radio blackout happens
for a vehicle that needs to keep it's speed up all the way to the target? probably as soon as it dips below 80 kilometers lol.

>>64008401
>while strike groups were exercising in the western pacific, beyond the first island chain
during peacetime, what a retarded quip.

>>64008401
Anon, any story where an amphibious landing force manages to effectively win a war within a day, is obviously fake and implessive as shit

>>64008399
>>64008417
This is a myth. Hypersonic vehicles have had the ability to communicate and sense via RF for decades. Back in the 80s, DARPA demonstrated a Ku-band seeker on the SWERVE glide vehicle (predecessor to the current C-HGB). Every hypersonic vehicle the US has had for the last fifty years has been able to send telemetry during even the harshest phases of flight, and data links haven't been a significant issue in nearly as long.

Near as I can tell, this myth originates from Apollo-era spaceflight and before, where ground stations were unable to track and communicate with reentering vehicles. But that was A) under far more aggressive circumstances, and B) due primarily to technological limitations of the time. By the era of the Space Shuttle, NASA was able to track and perform communications to and from the vehicle throughout reentry. In comparison, communicating with a hypersonic vehicle traveling at half the velocity is all but trivial.

>>64008420
that was also my thought but realistically, if they decided to suddenly turn around and invade right from there, could they be stopped?

>>64008425
>an amphibious landing force manages to effectively win a war within a day
that's not what it says - it says the defenders on the eastern side were more or less wiped out within a day but he could be a shill, who knows

>>64008476
>um ackshually he only says the entire fortified coastline and all forces holding it collapsed, not that they lost the war!
I can't tell if you're a chink or fucking retarded, but either way that screenshot is obviously made up bs

>>64008490
anon, most of the defenders are on the west side of the island

>>64005854
Big if true

>>64008528
It's actually about 4inches.

>>64005835 (OP)
They are still completely and utterly untested in battle. They refuse to engage so much as shithouse African militias, even going directly against UN orders to avoid it. Without actual meaningful experience, all that fancy hardware and marching doesn't mean a goddamned thing.

>>64005835 (OP)
That would be the US circa 1938-45

>>64005835 (OP)
japan went from practically medieval in 1854 to ironclads in about 20 years

>>64005835 (OP)
No, that would be USA 1925-1945

>>64005856
There are other chans which have, and have also rangebanned The Country Which Shall Not Be Named.
And they are good places.
Exactly what you'd expect of life-knowledge gained 4channers if the website was actually moderated for quality.

>>64005835 (OP)
impressive, China WILL grow larger

>>64005835 (OP)
>Undoubtedly the 2nd most powerful navy in the world and a blue water navy
That's if you don't include the US Naval Reserve and their ships.

>>64005835 (OP)
China has been building stuff just to build stuff which has been effective in the short term in helping them meet their extremely ambitious growth targets, but is entirely unsustainable in the long term. Building a shit ton of frigates and corvettes looks great on paper until you have to fuel and maintain your inventory in peacetime.

I am now convinced China is in fact very powerful and not gay and shitty

>>64007583
>Even the USAF say that it's 5th and 6th gen. This level of coping is just pathetic.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE NO FIGHTER IN OUR OPERATIONAL INVENTORY THAT COULD CONSISTENTLY, IF SUCCESSFULLY, COMBAT THE FOXBAT

>>64005835 (OP)
kys chang
use a running start to clear the jumper nets

>>64008391
Intel couldn't keep the pace and costs of TSMC despite having more EUV machines and earlier. Samsung was similar.
DUV can achieve 7-5 nm.
And you need more than just litho, China actually have relevant developments in chemical polishing/planning, plasma etching and chemicals for semiconductor industry. They can develope in parallel because they can create new human capital instead of making turning their undergrad education system into a scheme to squeeze their retarded students while they socialize. Or the HS, oh well, I'll ignore the absolute state of the average HS and MS in the US. LMAO

And even the US needs those chinese toolmakers
>Sanctioned in 2022
>2 years later
>In December 2024, AMEC was removed from the list again
Plwease and thwank you.

>>64005835 (OP)
WW1 USA is pretty close, going from a bunch of Indian Killers who are only used to troop groupings of a few thousand for anything, to an actual military in a few years, was pretty impressive.
But the Chinese aren't bad at all. They're doing a hell of a lot of growing right now. They just need to get actual combat experience.

>>64008362
Even if the Chinese literally never figure out EUV manufacturing on their own, it would be irrelevant, because military tech is decades out of date anyhow compared to what is on the current consumer market.
A DUV machine from the 00s is already more than what anyone needs to make a cutting edge missile or power the computers in a modern fighter jet. None of that actually takes a lot of computer power nor is bound with heavy efficiency requirements like a current gen iPhone CPU is.

>>64006578
>This is before we remind chang here that the Royal Navy is starting to float with them.
It's a question of industrial output going into the future though.

>>64005835 (OP)
The US Army: https://x.com/USArmy/status/1947265395733188705?

>>64007162
>probably as hard
W.r.t demand on supply chains and labour force, not really. Could the US spit out 6000 ships in 4 years today, including combat and merchant vessels, at a level of modern sophistication? Highly doubtful

>>64005885
>TAIWAN
>NUMBA
>WAN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN0vUlljX0I

>>64008362
>>B-B-BUT CHINKS DO FINAL ASSEMBLY
Are you implying they don't actually manufacture the component in the first place? They also refine like ~50% of the world's copper among other minerals/metals, lol.
>we'll send our components to be assembled in a different country and hopefully they won't develop an inferiority complex like you did.
Like what, India I guess?

>>64012286
ww1 was decided by UK and France vs Germany on the western front. By the time US finally got around the decisive grind was mostly over. Japan was left to do their own thing in the Pacific and mostly a sideshow

US contribution is in WW2 as the untouchable megafactory spamming everybody to death. protected by the largest oceans of the world fully invulnerable to bombing and invasions. no need to hog all the glory in delusions of grandeur

>>64008387
>and population loss
I don't see the EU/UK or US/CA/NZ/AU being in a particularly better position in this regard, whether it's re: birthrates or ethnic demographics.

If anything, autocracy puts them in a better position to enact Total Geriatric Death (TGD) or Total Geriatric Menial Labour Until Death (TGMUD).

>>64008142
just how delusional are you lmao

>>64011770
Why would the US with it's smaller population be more predisposed to maintenance than China? I'm guessing the actual limiting factor here is fuel and not the sheer volume of biomass.

>>64012731
It's so strange to see accounts owned by the actual military posting shit like they're doing a promo/ad for a new car or washing machine.

>>64012821
not at all, which is why i make you so angry, all you can do is pretend to be smug on /k/ all day, kid, you should get a better hobby, or friends.

>>64008444
>via RF
using extremely powerful ground based radio transmitters, yes, not over an ocean using a satellite, which is what you'd actually need.
>By the era of the Space Shuttle, NASA was able to track and perform communications to and from the vehicle throughout reentry.
only because of the vehicle's massive size, and ONLY when there was a TDRS satellite in just the right location to do it.
you can't rely on these in a wartime scenario.

>>64012709
Give it 5 years and Chang would fistfuck the US in any future conflict in a vacuum but then remember no conflict will exist in a vacuum and China has basically no real friends.sure the US doesn’t even understand the concept of bouyancy anymore at this point and don’t have the industrial capacity to build more than a canoe a decade but they’ll still have allies to bail them out.

>>64008528
A lady from Xinjiang province saw my cock, this was her reply. Perhaps I am big?
很大,很不错,很爱
好想尝一口
我也想舔你的
如果他塞入到我的那个部位,我认为会塞到很满的
能够让我充分体验到快感

>>64013028
There is no manufacturing in the west

>>64013402
lol, lmao even

>>64013421
cope

>>64013402
you are able to type on this website because you are using a device that only works because of american and european machinery.
all oil and gas in the world also relies on 3 or so european companies.

>B-BUT WE HAVE SO MUCH FINAL ASSEMBLY IN CHINA
yep, you get the unimportant part in manufacturing, most of the important components are all made in the west.

>>64013485
>make a demonstrably false statement
>get laughed at for it
>seethe
implessive!

>>64013497
Hey wumao, do me a solid and translate
>>64013173
I don't trust Grok 100% on this

>>64007583
>Even the USAF say that it's 5th and 6th gen
Mind sourcing that claim?

>>64005867
The question is can US today be like WW2 production level in a WW3 event? Or could China produce thousands of drones a year if they convert some of their automated factories to produce long range drones/cruise missiles at scale?

>>64013582
>The question is can US today be like WW2 production level in a WW3 event?
Lmao no

>>64005835 (OP)
WUMAO, no one is fooled by chicom attempts at jewish number magic. we know theres only a fraction of your claimed population that entirely live in your cities, and your military is a lolcommunists shitshow.


water filled warheads and copies of copies of copies of copies.

the world needs an entire country that makes unsellable plastic trinkets to smuggle drug precursors more than anything, right?
>>64005856
there goes the entire moderation staff.
>>64011349
the PLA got fucking OWNED by 1980s vietnamese young pioneers who were unarmed and were camping out.
>>64012286
we had bloody brother wars in the 1800s where percentages of our population dropped double digits in hours. mind your mouth chink.
we put the indians in reservations as a warning, not a memorial.
>>64012834
china has lied nonstop for decades about their population. decades of famines, cannibalism and then 1 child didnt lead to whatever they claim now, when there is no one living outside of the cities.

>>64013402
The collective west as well as Japan and Korea combined absolutely mogs China in industrial output. China’s biggest issue is their ego, le west’s biggest issue is if they’re even willing to press anything or “do what it takes”. Considering the fact that in 30 years half of the west will have cultural and religious revulsion to the very foundations of the societies they migrated to for a better life my money is on China in the long run.

>>64013489
The only remotely problematic industries China dominates are steelworking and tooling. But these are really more a matter of cost than true difficulty to re-establish elsewhere.

>>64007864
I am not from Taiwan but looking at the terrain, and what China would have to overcome to conquer it, is really gnarly. It would be the largest amphibious op in history. Now if there's any country that would do that, it might be China. But most of the island is comprised of the tallest mountains in East Asia. Also look at Taipei on Google Earth in 3D view. It's a giant bowl surrounded by mountains (it's an ancient lake bed) with narrow ways to get in and out.

Then zooming out, how does China stage forces in a landing zone? Nothing about this is easy. It makes me think it's unlikely that they'll invade, because they really don't want to, and would prefer doing everything else they can to reclaim it short of war. But that doesn't mean being like "oh okay so we don't have to prepare for a Chinese invasion" or whatever some of the budget-cutting restrainers want (because that would not deter them).

>>64013708
China makes a lot of buckets and bolts, and has gotten better at making more advanced technology. But I remember getting a tour of one of their hospital ships (one of the few ships they let Westerners on board, or at least did at the time), and noticing how little of the medical equipment was Chinese. It was mostly foreign gear, European, Dutch. There was *one* device that was Chinese and the PLAN guide was very insistent we marvel at it.

>>64005867
We probably have more military tonnage sunk by U boats in the Gulf of fucking Mexico, than both Russia has ever had in total ship tonnage
Logistics wins wars
That said I'm hesitant to count out any nation militarily that can so efficiently ship meat out to the slaughter, namely communist countries

>>64013781
agreed, chinks really stepped up with regards to large-scale tooling and steelmaking, even if most of the steel they make is of shit quality, they can do better if it really really matters.
that's about it with regards to strategic shit that's difficult to quickly replace in the west though
>oooh no, how will the west replace china's cheap metal stamped parts and plastic molds?
>it's not like they invented it or anything

there's also the unmistakable reality that china lumps a lot of things in with "industry" that makes their industrial output look bigger than it actually is.
for instance all of those sand cities being built to fuel the housing bubble are all counted as good ol' industry, even if it's pointless economic activity that amounts to nothing.

>>64013803
>going from beach and sea cliff rock fighting hell to mountain fighting hell to dense forest mountainous fighting hell straight to dense urban hivecity fighting hell
i know taiwan's strategy is to just keep chinks off the island and sink everything that gets close, which is the best strategy, but honestly i seriously have my doubts chinks could do it even if they did land, when the whole place is basically a country sized iwo jima with even more places for the defenders to hide and even more variations of terrain that can fuck you up.

I just don't like a lot of what the PLA offers. There's a lot of unique ideas they try; incendiary weapons, stuff like machine-grenade launchers, quick amphibious SPGs, their AFV designs that are not Soviet/Russian copies, their new aircraft (prototypes), etc. but they're not likely to work in actual combat. Not the kind of war China claims it's going to fight against Taiwan/US-Pacific. And it was not until very recently that they were willing to even let some of their stuff be deployed to battle test it.
The "impressive" meme gets spammed specifically because all evidence points to the PLA being a force that LOOKS modern. Carefully selected bits of imagery and display to create the illusion they're effective. While much of their military is still running around with the older equipment.

>>64013854
China is like big (very big) Mexico. Which is not great, but not terrible. Look at how China compares to the U.S., South Korea and Japan in terms of "total factor productivity." If you build a factory and hire more workers (labor and capital), output will rise. But if you start producing more output with the same amount of workers and machines, that's an improvement in TFP.

>>64013870
If Taiwan can really boost drone production... think about what you could do to massed Chinese landing forces from those mountains. I mean you can just look down at them. But my instinct tells me that success here would probably come down to the political factor more than anything. If there was some serious political crisis in Taiwan and becomes incapable of governing and functioning and China tries something sneaky. There was a Taiwanese movie depicting the run-up to a PLA invasion with Chinese glowies taking over the internet, and the TVs switch over to CCTV, and creepy pro-PRC incel youth goon squads are driving around on motorbikes:
https://youtu.be/ixcZ70oLnTU

>>64013891
To create the illusion of effectiveness so we keep our distance from China. They look out at the Pacific and see U.S. carrier strike groups, bases, long-range bombers that can fly across the ocean and strike them. They have a sort of "fortress mentality" and they want to muscle us out of their backyard.

>>64013682
>we had bloody brother wars in the 1800s where percentages of our population dropped double digits in hours.
The US Civil War was a slapfight between two incompetent militaries that would have been rolled over in a day by the Germans or the French.

>>64013854
>>oooh no, how will the west replace china's cheap metal stamped parts and plastic molds?
Unironically how would the western industrial base as a whole go by replacing this? Keyword on 'cheap'.

>>64013708
>Considering the fact that in 30 years half of the west will have cultural and religious revulsion to the very foundations of the societies they migrated to for a better life my money is on China in the long run.
Unfortunately this is my prediction as well. It's completely irrelevant whether the US, Germany, Britain etc are more efficient producers today or tomorrow when civil strife drawn along biological ethnic differences render the countries unrecognizable & unstable.

>>64014049
Mass automation

>>64013951
The Charge of the Light Brigade was barely a decade earlier so i doubt that somewhat.

>>64013066
>but they’ll still have allies to bail them out.
The flaw here is these allies suffer from similar issues (over financialization of the economy), sometimes to an even greater extent proportionally, and that's with an already smaller industrial base.

Like my point is that if you predict today's US allies are tomorrow's and they're certain to help out in a conflict, all that does is extend the industrial timeline by which they're all collectively outnumbered anyways. The outcome is the same.

>>64013682
>china has lied nonstop for decades about their population. decades of famines, cannibalism and then 1 child didnt lead to whatever they claim now, when there is no one living outside of the cities.
I don't doubt that for a second. For instance I believe it was a few years ago they stopped reporting on fertility data.

The thing is that even if the margin by which they're lying is like +400m, that's still over a billion Chinese.
On one hand I find it hard to believe their population by volume is comparable to India, on the other I also highly doubt it's 'similar' to that of the US and they're inflating it by a magnitude of 1 billion.

>>64014060
Why couldn't the Chinese do this but even cheaper? The supply chains and infrastructure already exist to a greater extent than the US. It's also worth noting that US steel-making as is suffers from not replacing woefully outdated equipment and rent-seeking union workers.

Ideally you don't want to automate dogshit industrial tools/machines, nor is it even really possible when so much of it is analog. And again, unions represent a major roadblock. Remember when the federal government tried to roboticize some of the work on west-coast ports? Not only did that effort get shut down but the union extracted yet another (frankly undeserved) raise.

>>64014070
Picket's Charge?

>>64013682
>china has lied nonstop for decades about their population. decades of famines, cannibalism and then 1 child didnt lead to whatever they claim now, when there is no one living outside of the cities.
This is the most SAAAR post of the day.
Are you a lead poisoned boomer watching AI generated videos on YT or are you a jeet?

>>64014138
no it was a british cavalry charge into prepared defenses during the Crimean war, Picket's charge was an infantry charge uphill into prepared defenses. But it didn't get a poem about it.

>>64014208
I know, I was equating them, thougheverbietfully.

>>64005835 (OP)
>2015
None of what you said following that was true. They were already indigenizing both production and product by then, not to mention surpassing Russian capabilities by leaps. Their engines still sucked, but the engines we are seeing operational in 2025 were in development in 2015

>>64005854
>showing them photos
It only counts if you actually score in the real world. Get to it, anon, it's not that hard to do. Besides, everyone online is a dude

>>64014416
I'm building up a repertoire. I got a list of cities to visit and places to see. Seems I'll always have somebody to accompany me and give me accommodation in each of the cities I'll travel through

>>64014145
been there in 2009, its fucking empty, even the cities outside the big 5 are ghost towns. nice try wumao.
>>64013951
cope and seethe yuropoor.

>>64006132
>they were on the cusp of getting nukes. they were crushed just in time.
bro, if anything their nuke program progress went backwards from its prewar status.

>>64014060
American manufacturing uses several hundred fewer robots per capita than China. Less than Ze Germans, even.

>>64005835 (OP)
It's definitely a big military glow-up, but I think the US Army evolving from a glorified gendarmerie force into probably the most modern mechanized force on the planet from 1941-44 has it beat by a fair distance.

>>64014049
It's low-complexity manufacturing that can move elsewhere pretty easily. In fact it already is, by and large, which is a major reason why china has economically stagnated

>>64014889
> low-complexity manufacturing
The US has to import injection molding dies from China...

>>64014893
No, Chang, the point is that we do not have to. It is cheaper, and that is why we do it, but if push comes to shove then it is an industry that can rapidly be replicated and replaced elsewhere. Which is hilariously ironic, given that the tiny little island of Taiwan is the world leader in high-precision chip production, making them more valuable and irreplaceable than all of china's manufacturing put together.

>>64014918
>if push comes to shove then it is an industry that can rapidly be replicated and replaced elsewhere
There is no indication that the US is capable of doing that without a 10 year timeline and billions in cost overruns.

>>64014918
>we do not have to.
And that's why the US doesn't need TSMC
OMEGALUL

the us didn't need crap drones neither

>>64014925
>muh drone drop
>p-puccia stronk

>>64014938
>puccia stonk
You don't understand. If even the retards of RT can troll the retards of the US army then you have a problem.
>b-but F-35 and numba wan air force

>>64013909
>think about what you could do to massed Chinese landing forces

You're not thinking big enough. The Chinese will need to send hundreds of thousands if not a couple million over the straits to take Taiwan. They won't be able to protect even a portion that number from missile and drone strikes. Imagine what a target rich environment that would be. It will certainlybe the single largest mass drowning incident since the Greek/Armenian genocide in the black sea coast. Can you imagine the carnage when the sharks start eating the Chinese for a change?

This war can't come soon enough.

>>64014949
>can troll the retards
By boasting that the US only started doing this retarded, performative display after it was used in ukraine for years, when the US simply has much better weapons than this?
Yeah, sure.

>>64007044
>>64014416
You're missing the point, yes most of their current programs were in development for decades, but they weren't in service in 2015. The J-20 or the WS-10 wasn't in service, there were only a handful of type 52D completed etc etc. The impressive thing is not just the R&D, but how they have mass produced and intergrated their equipment since than. Something that Russia has been struggling with.

>>64011773
Name 5 countries more powerful than China
>>64013891
>And it was not until very recently that they were willing to even let some of their stuff be deployed to battle test it.
>Carefully selected bits of imagery and display to create the illusion they're effective. While much of their military is still running around with the older equipment.

Most of the reason as to why that is the case is that most of their equipment is very new. There is a cost to modernizing so fast. China went from a mid tier cold war military force, to a modern military in like 8 years. No shit they're having teething and training issues, or don't have total confidence in their equipment. You can't hand modern fighter jets to a military that has only handled rusty AKs before and expect them to be good at it. As they settle down and finish their modernization and become more comfortable with their new equipment, you will start to see them become more confident and willing to sell to foreign buyers.

>>64005835 (OP)
USA 1941-1945 is the fastest ever military buildup

>>64015417
That's during wartime though

>>64006572
>>64007350
The F-22 needs afterburners in order to climb which proves that F-119 really only has a TWR of 7. It also puts doubts on the claims that the F-22 can supercruise.

>>64011413
>The Country Which Shall Not Be Named
Russia, or Turkey?

>>64015433
Holy shit you are such a schizo LMAO.
>noooo in my mind this video proves something!!!

>>64008137
>and yet it's not, it's not as stealthy as western aircraft

That's true, but it's not like they need to be as stealthy as a F-22 to be considered stealth. If they have have say 20% the RCS, why doesn't that make them 5th or stealth? Even 20% of the F-22's RCS is still dozens of times better than any non-stealth plane ever made and still provides a massive advantage over any 4.5th gen in service.

And that's not counting the J-35, which has the potential to equal the F-22 and F-35. Or their 6th gen is gonna to be stealthier just based off their tailless design.
>>64008140
Because obviously if a cold war era concept didn't work, that proves that it will forever never work, even with better computer aided designs or controls.

>>64015433
I'm >>64006572.
>. It also puts doubts on the claims that the F-22 can supercruise.
That's unrelated, the F119 achieves good thrust per inlet area thanks to the TIT (that seems realistic compared to commercial turbofans of its era). Even 4th gen can achieve low-level SC with engines upgraded with better hot section to operate at similar TIT. The 5th gen in general is clean so SC should be even easier, similar to the 3rd gen that was normally fast because internal bays, long airframes and recessed missiles were common.

And a fighter is more than its engine TWR, 2x500 kg of extra weight in the engine when the gross weight of the fighter is ~30 tons. I think the USAF considers the power plant of the F119 as adequate, they didn't upgraded the engine using the improvements of the F135 (probably +10% of thrust) because it isn't worth it, as it's now the F119 is the military turbofan with longest engine life by a margin, even the F135 turned to be worse, around -30% (6000 vs 8000 hr -that depends if you want to do a major refurbishment to extend it more-).


My complain is the retards who began to spread bullshit info (the MIC of many countries rarely correct incorrect specs if they're meaningless or favorable to them) and all the "engine futurism", basically spam, that the US produced during the mid 1990s until the 2000s. Their projects to improve TWR, SFC, and thrust were plagued with bullshit figures and nuclear-fusion-in-15-years levels of self-delusion.

>Undoubtedly the 2nd most powerful navy in the world and a blue water navy

>>64011413
This is an outlandish lie.

>>64015491
Name 3 countries with more powerful navies.

>>64015408
1. USA
2.RUSSIA
3.FRANCE
4.VIETNAM
5.GOLDMINES IN AFRICA

>>64015505
1.USA
2.USA COAST GUARD
3.SOMALIA

>>64008444
>In comparison, communicating with a hypersonic vehicle traveling at half the velocity is all but trivial.

A hypersonic on terminal approach does about 3 km/sec, very slow compared to orbital reentry ( 7.9 km/sec) or Apollo returning from the moon (12 km/sec). Also, space capsules have blunt, almost flat nosed heat shields, which are designed that way to trap air in front of them, using the trapped air as additional ablative material. This means that air turns into a plasma envelope. In the 1960s it was found that you could remove the plasma by injecting small amounts of water into it.

This "hypersonics are blind" is a psyop from the amerimutts because they lack this class of weapons due to USAF lobbying (ground and sea based long range theater prompt strike shifts USAF funding to the US army and Navy).

>>64015688
>This "hypersonics are blind" is a psyop from the amerimutts because they lack this class of weapons due to USAF lobbying
implessive cope

please continue to ignore the orbital reently altitude and the air density in it.

>>64007583
>Even the USAF say that it's 5th and 6th gen
The USAF has to justify their budgets to congress when they ask for more money, and letting congress think Chiner's got some wunderwaffle shit in their pocket is going to get hte MIC hawks amped about spending those tax dollarinos.
The China/NK/Iran/Russia quad is great for the MIC bottom line

>>64015449
>>The Country Which Shall Not Be Named
>Russia, or Turkey?

The country filled with Gods Chosen People. The one that is not America, that is. And no, thats not Canada.

>>64015691
>please continue to ignore the orbital reently altitude and the air density in it.

Cope more Mr Non-Stem.

>>64015725
continue to cope about your hypersanic wunderwaffe that will totally own the west this time for real.

i only hope that turdie engineers are just as stupidly worthless and deluded as you are, that way every next dunk you receive when you rear your head will be harder than the last.

>>64005835 (OP)
>glowup
There's something glowing about this post indeed, but it's not the triumphant Chinese military development.
I rate 5/100 cents, have a (You) and do better next time.

>>64015725
>retarded failure that shills for foreign countries is calling others non-stem
It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

>>64005835 (OP)
>2 fully domestic 5th gen fighters in service, working on 2 6th gen fighters
Kek. No

>>64005835 (OP)
>Fast forward 10 years
>
>>2025
>>2 fully domestic 4.5 gen fighters 50% in service, working on 2 6th gen fantasies
>>Hundred(no s) of J-20s appear complete, producing a [number] a year
>>Flanker clones are universally agreed a basic competent series continuation
>>Has some of the best A2A powerpoints in the world
>>Has their own SOTA... ok only kind of
>>Churning out cardboard quality modern SSN at a rapid pace of 3 a year
>>Has not demonstrated catobar carrier with an EM catapult
>>Has the largest navy, but most of it sucks, the crews REALLY suck, and it's mostly fishing boats
>>would still lose a naval 1v1 war against France

CAPTCHA: XXKYS
welp kill yourselfs bitches

>>64005835 (OP)
自由西藏 Free Tibet 1989 年天安门广场抗议活动 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右斗争 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大跃进 The Great Leap Forward 无产阶级文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人权 Human Rights 民主化 Democratization 自由 Freedom 独立Independence 多方制度 Multi-party system 台湾就是福尔摩沙Taiwan Formosa 中华民国 Republic of China 西藏Tibet 达赖喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法轮大法 Falun Dafa 新疆维吾尔自治区 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 诺贝尔和平奖 Nobel Peace Prize 刘晓波 Liu Xiaobo 习近平是小熊维尼 Winnie the Pooh 黑人同性婚姻 Gay marriage with other races

>>64008146
Thankfully all crime is neatly documented in the "felonies" folder in most criminal lairs.

>>64008146
Love this White nigga like you wouldn't believe.

>>64008251
Dear Thirdie;
You are on a US plantation. It might say "Chendin Factory #23" but inside it are "America's niggers" aka you. You cannot do anything on your own, white hands must guide every step or you steal or break it. When you DO make something, it breaks. The west doesn't rely on your garbage, we rely on the REAL CHINA named TAIWAN, which you can never have but can see on a good day. But you have filth smog.
The industry can pack up and leave for home and be on it's feet in MONTHS. YOU cannot produce "industry" EVER.
Thanks for playing.

>>64015688
we made those first and in the 70s

>>64008251
>>64008263
>Laughs in steel worker who makes the equipment that gathers the precious and rare earth metals from your shithole for a pittance.

>>64011792
Good thing only 112 non-fixable non-flying Foxbats still exist. Meanwhile there is still an active SR-71 and F-22 would fuck that POS up or drive it to fuel starvation.

>>64012869
cold war was full of it

>>64016004
>we made those first and in the 70s

The Pershing II had terminal guidance radar, meaning that "hypersonics cant hit carriers because they are blind" is bullshit.

>>64016123
Tell me you know nothing about pershing ii without telling me you know nothing about pershing ii.

Burgers and co have been doing combat operations daily for the last few decades
China's only experience since Vietnam was running away from skinnies, poos, and flip fishermen

>>64007720
india into china

>>64016076
ah yes the famous cold war twitter shitposts, how could i forget those

>>64005835 (OP)
How exactly are they projecting this force without navy bases in the wider world

>>64012869
youre so close to the point.
this is a recruitment ad.

>>64005862
Ah yes blame the redditoids who classically love Russia and China? Sorry no but most there love seeing Soviet tier shit blasted in to tinfoil on combatfootage and ncd. You can continue your fantasy land though where anyone loves China for more than cheap plastics and a relatively easy to install bidet to spray my asshole (also designed in USA)

t. American who lived in guangzhou and san francisco who knows even the most liberals think China sucks and firsthand experienced the suck.

>>64005864
Please I beg

>>64005885
Hilariously the Japanese are cool as fuck. Great cocktails great beer great bars and love hotels are fun. They have weird guns that are fun too? Sign me up for a trip.

>>64006214
Yes thank you. General consensus is they picked the wrong path and to fix that was ~many years.

>>64005885
>Are you Chinese or Japanese?

>>64018150
>Let's waste trillions of dollar learning nothing by fighting brown goat herders

Yes, why do think China has been able to modernize so fast on a lower budget than America? Do you think fighting forever wars are good or something? Russia must surely be the most powerful fighting force in the world by now

>>64018472
By building more naval bases of course. You really think China is gonna stop at one? Also, China is in the center of Asia, they can project forces into north asia, south asia, the middle east, south-east asia, east asia, central asia and the indo-pacific from bases within China, with minimal tanker support.

>>64015717
>Gods Chosen People
Polstain and/or Iran? You are playing puzzles there, can you just tell it strait?

>>64005835 (OP)
Not even close, top ten (like 7-9th ranked) at best.

>>64020108
The japs hate them back. It's just that their hatred manifests more as being dismissive of them, compared to the chinks who are more of the frothing at the mouth types.

>>64022436
America has bases absolutely everywhere and testing your stuff in the field does make people want to buy it, duh
Why do you think all their Luyangs are arleigh burke knockoffs