You get 300+ grains, compared to the 300 Blackout's typical 220 grains (not counting cast lead bullets of course).

But that's not the whole story, 338 ARC also has a 20% larger bullet from the front, as the radius is squared when calculating the area of a circle (i.e. a bullet viewed from the front). So 20% more chance to hit vitals or nervous system, and 20% less overpenetration, all other factors equal. 300blk's biggest weakness is that subsonics are essentially guaranteed to overpenetrate due to their unusually high sectional density. A 220grain spitzer 300 blackout will easily go through two blocks of gelatin. In practice this is very wasteful and not what you want.

They didn't use a rarted twist rate like the 8.6 BLK, so handloaders will be able to use plated or cast bullets unlike 8.6 which requires very pricey solid copper bullets particularly for supersonic shooting.

>>64009072 (OP)
Get some good guns chambered in it and ill consider. I also like .30 super carry, but its the shield plus and nothing else, same story

>>64009077
>good guns
CMMG dissent not good enough?

>>64009072 (OP)
what's the accuracy on these things?
my 300 blk is like a 2-3 MOA gun at 100 yards using factory subsonics. its kinda sucks. Are the see ARC around any better?

>>64009162
>2-3 MOA
>kinda sucks
That is fairly good if not great accuracy for an autoloading rifle without a free-floated barrel firing subsonic ammunition in the real world

>>64009155
How much it be costin

>>64009077
>>64009183
If the CMMG Dissent ($2,100) is too expensive for you. You could try the PSA Mixtape (~$1,000) when it comes out. I'm sure other companies will make guns for a cartridge developed by Hornady, unlike .30 SC which was developed by Federal.

>>64009072 (OP)
It's neat, but I think it's overshadowed by other rounds. .300 BLK is cheaper and has a bigger variety of bullet options for handloading. If you don't care about cost and you want to optimize for subsonics then go bigger than .338.

>>64009077
This, a lot of rounds that are perfectly viable but are promoted because they are like a 10% improvement on existing rounds like .30SC vs 9mm, or .338 ARC vs .300BLK, or .327 magnum vs .357 magnum just end up going nowhere because they dont offer a significant enough improvement to justify changing everything over.

And there will still always be tradeoffs, one caliber is almost never just a straight upgrade over the other, it just depends on what attributes you prioritizs. Maybe in an alternate timeline we would all have pistols in .30 French Longue +P and the competitor calibers would be .36 Auto and .27 Ultra Carry

> 300blk's biggest weakness is that subsonics are essentially guaranteed to overpenetrate due to their unusually high sectional density

You got that backwards. 338ARC actaully has slightly greater sectional energy than 300 blackout. It is ~20% larger in frontal area, but the bullet is >1.2x heavier. Velocity doesn’t factor since it’s the same for both.

I was shitting on 338 arc in the other thread, but if I had that semi-standard six8 lower with the new Magpul mags, yeah I might get a 338 ARC. I still hate it, but I’d buy one. Thumpers are just cool.

>>64009250
Federal are such morons. They drop a dumbass cartridge like 30SC when 7.92x24VBR exists, and then they have a chance to strike gold with the PEAK Alloy case but they go an make some retarded fuckhuge cartridge with it, for hunting, where cartridge mass and volume don’t matter at all. If they developed some new 5.56-sized intermediate cartridge at 80kpsi it would have been a hit.

>>64009172
NTA

Isn’t a gun’s accuracy a measure of its mechanical accuracy? Like, strapped into a firing contraption where the gun can’t move at all, fire off a 5 round string, measure the spread?

Ridiculous to think cartridge/purpose optimization is basically sending us back towards .70 minie ball.

Here's a thought.
Surface area causes devastating effect, and speed in sub-100 yard is mostly irrelevant so long as you're in the 2k muzzle velocity range.
Why argue about .223 versus .300
Cut the bullshit, take it right on up to stubby 350 grain .70s
Or fuck it, figure out reliable semiauto mag fed shotgun and just use slugs.

Because I'm damn sure whatever my 64gr frangibles hit in close is going to be just as lethal as wunderwaffe caliber heavies.

>>64009072 (OP)
When I'm king of the Earth I'm banning every cartridge that wasn't NATO or Warsaw Pact standard.

>>64011304
You’ll never become king of earth because I’m going to become king of earth, and I’m going to promote cartridge developement. Everything will be 80kpsi shooting VLDs with von karman ogives. All machineguns will be required by law to be constant recoil. Also, drum mags, guns without sights, rifles without stocks, and Glock switches will be banned (punished by death).

>>64011356
I was with you until the last part. ARPs and switched kill more black kids than your policy every will

>>64011367
Good point. I will have you on as an advisor.

>>64011299
>350gr at 2000fps

Anon, have you ever heard of recoil?
The recoil calculator produces picrel.

>>64011449
>ummmmm excuse me little chuddy but did you LOOK at my gay little chart?
>huh? Actually shoot the gun? NOW WHY WOULD I DO THAT WHEN I CAN LOOK AT NUMBERS

>>64011470
Yeah I don’t have a .700 caliber gun laying around loaded to your exact specifications.

Did you know that numbers are real? They map to stuff IRL. You can use them to make predictions, like predicting that your pet 350gr thumper is going to be atrocious to shoot.

>>64011487
>did you know that numbers are real
>they map onto stuff in real life
Where do you guys come from

>>64011296
>Isn’t a gun’s accuracy a measure of its mechanical accuracy?
Yes. But people without autism consider the role the weapon is being used for. In other words, context matters. 2-3 MOA is acceptable for an infantry rifle or a handgun meant to be used at super close distances. It would be considered abysmal for a match pistol or a target rifle.

>>64009072 (OP)
When is hornady gonna figure out that the 6.5 grendel case is a valid replacement for 30-30 and come out with a 30 arc and 375 arc? Its extremely close if not superior to both 30-30 and 375 winchester since in theory they can both shoot spitzers or bthp.

>>64009072 (OP)
Why the hate? Because who the fuck is buying 8.6 to begin with much less wanting a slightly cheaper (still 1.30 per shot) alternative? All I'm seeing is a waste of industrial capacity for a cartridge nobody asked for that serves no unrecognized niche that could've been spent making more cartridges people actually shoot

>>64011289
>If they developed some new 5.56-sized intermediate cartridge at 80kpsi it would have been a hit
They did and there's video of it being tested, but they won't drop it for the public.

>>64011356
You're a fag that hates fun

>>64009072 (OP)
350 legend is better. 300 and 8.6 blackout are two of the worst firearm cartridges ever designed, beating them is about the lowest bar in existence.

>also has a 20% larger bullet from the front, as the radius is squared when calculating the area of a circle (i.e. a bullet viewed from the front). So 20% more chance to hit vitals or nervous system, and 20% less overpenetration
That's not how any of that works at all. Going from 308 to 338 nets you a 0.10" radial error benefit in terms of shot placement. Penetration is heavily influenced by bullet design.

>>64012512
“Fun could be here,” he thought. “I hate fun”

>>64012478
Link?

>>64012532
>350 legend mogs
Subs only, where ogive length and geometry are mostly irrelevant, especially at the intended/practical range for subs. Supers will shed all their energy to the atmosphere in a very short distance.

>I like dicks in my ass
You dare besmirch 8.6 blackout! Repent! If the smoothbrains at Q had any sense, they would have slowed down the twist rate *slightly* and developed some ultralight VLD bullet to recreate a CETME cartridge, only better. The trajectory of M855 (20”), from a 12” barrel, and with twice the energy at all ranges. Recoil energy maybe twice that of 5.56, still very low. Huge missed opportunity to develop a truly universal cartridge. But it’s still possible, just needs a new ~100gr bullet.

And I say “the smoothbrains at Q” because they didn’t develop shit, they just stole two of JD Jones’ wildcats.

>>64012457
>30 ARC

You’re off by one letter. The .30 ARX. 6.5 grendel necked up to .30 cal. Picrel.

>>64012532
300 blackout is neat because the SAAMI minimum OAL spec is shorter than the 350 case alone. You could fit it in a FiveseveN-sized frame if you wanted.

>>64015106
>Subs only, where ogive length and geometry are mostly irrelevant, especially at the intended/practical range for subs. Supers will shed all their energy to the atmosphere in a very short distance.
All of these cartridges suck dick at being supersonic so I assumed sub is all we were talking about. With supers 350L is still a 200yd hunting round, and has more energy up close. If 338arc ever overtakes it, it'll be at impractical ranges.

Can't tell if you're joking but 8.6 is just shit, worse than 300blk. Fucking 308-size guns shooting rainbow-arc rounds which are very expensive. That's another thing about these ultra-efficient sub rounds; the bullets are ruinously expensive due to their sheer size. All the savings you make in powder efficiency and barrel wear is lost several times over just by the bullet cost, which will never improve, a 300-400gr chunk of something will always cost more than a 100-180gr.

>>64015207
>300 blackout is neat because the SAAMI minimum OAL spec is shorter than the 350 case alone
That doesn't really mean anything because if you wanted a short chambering you would essentially be creating the same problem the 22TCM9r has, where you've got the same cartridge case, but because of chamber/magazine differences in all practical senses you essentially have two different cartridges. The short ammo doesn't work properly in the long chamber, and the long ammo doesn't fit in the short chamber.

And when you're loading stubby bullets in your short chamber you've re-created a magnum pistol cartridge. What's the point? Just use 10mm.

>>64015345
>8.6 blackout.

Only half serious. 8.6 is only meh in its current incarnation. The problems of a dogshit trajectory and expensive bullets wouldn’t apply to my 100gr VLDs.

>>64015207
Like the other guy said, if COAL is different, and the guns feed from different mags, then regardless of chamber specs, the cartridge aren’t interchangeable. Besides, if you want 30 cal fed through the grip, you can consider 30 carbine or 7.5FK. Both are about 900ft*lbs, which is pretty close to a <8” 300 blackout.

Anyway, picrel, never came to fruition though.
Article:
>https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/15/pdw-crye-patent/

.45acp and 30-06 is all i need.

That's all well and good, but it's a super specific use case round. .300 blackout at least gives you the option to have a supersonic, 300 ish yard capable rifle mimicking 7.62x39 ballistics, or a quiet subsonic 100 yard round mimicking. 45acp in terminal ballistics. What's this do? Throw a big ol chunk of lead super slow? Subsonic only rounds will never be as popular as dual purpose or supersonic only rounds. They just aren't useful enough for 99% of people.

>>64015345
Or just buy scrap wheel weights, cast your own, and powder coat them. They're moving too slowly to worry about significant lead deposition.

>>64015345
>And when you're loading stubby bullets in your short chamber you've re-created a magnum pistol cartridge. What's the point? Just use 10mm.
Compare the muzzle energy of supersonic 300BLK to 10mm +P and then get back to me.

>>64016899
If you’re shooting them from the same gun, the barrel length is presumably also the same, so the muzzle energy advantage of 300 blackout diminishes some. 10mm makes like 700ft*lbs from a 6” barrel, 300 blackout doesn’t make too much more.

7.5FK makes 850ft*lbs, right around what 300 blackout should make from such a short barrel.

>expensive meme cartridge that like 1 company makes
>expensive meme uppers
Gee I wonder

>>64016271
very useful for larping

>>64019716
>expensive meme cartridge that like 1 company makes
Make that two companies, Hornady and AAC.

>>64019701
It seems unlikely that 300 blackout would lose 250 ft-lbs from one inch of barrel length.