Who sucks worse. German or French arms manufacturers?

>>64018716 (OP)
Honestly Americans, they have not even made quality guns since the 70s.

>>64018716 (OP)
any fumble by the french arms industry is astronomically dwarfed by the sheer incompetence of everything german the past 30 years

France and Sweden are the only western countries that aren't completely dropping the ball on military developments

>>64018746
Doesn't excuse the issue that Euros not able to increase production capacity, fulfilling orders, let alone standardizing combat systems for their continent dude. If the US is notorious/horrible or whatever other reason we can think of, it doesn't help Europe's case that they don't figure their own shit out.

>>64018746
He asked worse between the two, not wurst among all.

>>64018716 (OP)
German. You can tell the French are at least trying.

>>64018746
Post guns

Scalp works, Taurus doesn't. The Mirage exists, the Messerschmitt does not.

>>64018758
>no 5th gen fighters
>no deployed hypersonic missiles
>only one with nuclear submarines
>swedes depend on american engines
sure buddy

>France doing nil QC
a tale as old as time

>>64018746
france is buying a german made derivative of an american design because their rifle was so bad, they shut down the entire factory

Froggies actually deliver stuff

Germoney won't and are a catastrophe if you're a turd world customer

>>64018746
>whatabout america
Typical europoor reaction.

>>64018716 (OP)
Kek, it seems like they're paying the toll for not choosing K9

Can someone explain why I’m seeing so many anti French shit here again?

>>64019209
Because it's actually shit

>>64019248
But it’s not

>>64018910
The difference is that America will continue to sell engines to them. France is so self-centered they likely wouldn't. Yes Sweden depends a bit on the USA for their MIC, but at least they don't depend on hubris, the country.

>>64018716 (OP)
Anyone saying Germany hasn't followed any arms developments in the last three years.

>>64018716 (OP)
Both produce good stuff but Germany has greater industrial capacity.
>>64018746
If you're referring to small arms you're retarded.
As far as high caliber guns, the US has always been good and the only thing that warrants criticism is the M109 for how ancient it is. Even still, it's not like the US hasn't been keeping up to date with prototype/experimental gun projects.
>>64018900
>the Messerschmitt does not
Airbus.

>>64018746
>Grok is this true?
No, this poster is retarded

>>64019317
Watermelons make for pretty shit fighter jets.

>>64019300
Didn't America recently try to get out of selling submarines to Australia, and needed six months of haw humming before the president gave them permission to sell anything to Ukraine?

>>64019317
>Airbus.
Yes, the world's best planes are French, but I'm not sure what your argument is?

>>64019527
>Yes, the world's best planes are French
Combat aircraft? You'd have to be delusional to say that.
Also, Messerschmitt/MBB and other German firms are a major part of Airbus' lineage so it's not like German aviation went extinct on account of inferiority, it still exists today in a company that is in large part German owned and staffed.
Their flagship multirole combat aircraft, the Typhoon, also has significant German engineering in it while French avionics and components are only later additions that are not integral to the aircraft.

>>64019209
1) They're Muslim
2) They molest children (this is independent of the Muslim part and was always a part of French culture)
3) Their only national value is contrarianism. French weapon designs are like Kel-Tec on a national basis. Think about their dumb airdroppable oscillating turret "tanks" or their nuke obsession or their rifled HEAT rounds that float inside a rotating bearing. This is shockingly based and sometimes useful but controversial by nature. It will always draw criticism.

>>64019593
So you gave nothing?

>>64019593
ok but enough about the list

>>64019209
Ever since circa 2023, Russians really hate the French. There's a fuckton of aghitprop going around about them.

>>64019209
Ziggers are physically incapable of just making a thread about the lost Mirage 2000. Probably because the Ukrainian Air Force themselves were the ones to report on it.

It was a mistake to think of the French as Russia's understanding friends in the West.

>>64019593
>Their only national value is contrarianism. French weapon designs are like Kel-Tec on a national basis.
There's the twee 5% of France that conforms to everyone's expectations of France, and there's the 95 percent of the rest of France where people chocolate cereal for breakfast, listen to Gojira, shop at the hypermarché, and molest their family members. It's a socially terrifying place where exiled African death squad leaders live. Their version of Madonna in the 80s would get butt naked and blow her backup dancers away in R-rated duels:
https://youtu.be/4-qqVi5qbU8

>>64018716 (OP)
>the czechs are now where Denmark was in 2022
Kek

>>64018716 (OP)

>>64018716 (OP)
>>64018750
>>64018785
>>64018911
>>64019773
Czech here. Out issues with Caesar are strictly our own problem. French said they can deliver them with their domestic targeting system that has been combat proven when sieging Mosul (iirc).
But no. We absolutely HAD to do separate competetive tendering just for the targeting system even tough French said from the very beginning that it will take longer to implement and test it so the whole delivery will be posponed.
So naturally we have ordered French guns with German targeting system just for the hell of it and surprise, surprise. It doesn't work as expected.
tldr.: Not an issue with French guns but classic military procurement hell.

>>64019842
>low PL people
Low Polish people?

>>64019209
>Can someone explain why I’m seeing so many anti French shit here again?
American psyops.

>>64019742
Nah they did, but it was so vague that people didn't recognize the topic. At least this guy >>64019248 held onto my webm for 8 months.

>>64019980
If you meant this piece of shit thread >>64017738 then yeah, I had that in mind as well.

>>64019906
I respect the high difficulty multiplier combo you've built for yourself. Nice work.

>>64019209
Pakijeets and Chinks trying to discredit French weapons so they can sell their own stuff to thirdies
Retards hating on France because they're butthurt for whatever stupid reason, because it's trendy and/or because they genuinely believe Internet memes about the country, like this one >>64019593
Also what >>64019965 said

>>64019209
mix between state actor shilling like chinese or rushits and funnily enough religious nut jobs that call themself Church of Discordia which want to sow chaos etc. real edge lords which unmasked themselfs by posting their current year and not the normal one.

>>64020014
Thanks. We do love our burreaucracy.
Also please don't ask why we didn't order our domestically produced EA Dita or at least Slovakian ShKH Zuzana.

>>64019300
Sweden relies near entirely on Britain and the US for anything they make.
That's why any export they produce has to go by Britain and the US due to BAE.
France at least domestically produces their shit with as little outside codependency as possible, even if they are retarded with their designs.

>>64020172
>Church of Discordia
they are bronies aren't they?
Christ I hate people that are still bronies, it's been more than a decade move the fuck on, admit you're furries and go commit suicide

>>64020233
no they are just massive contrarians. They formed out of the tard hippy movement as a balance to the "stable and rule based world" by sowing chaos and discord they want to bring balance the massive retards

>>64020277
to add to that it was founded by literal neckbeards so there probably a few ponies "floating" around if you cath my drift

>>64018716 (OP)
Kek, I guess I now understand how the French managed to increase the production capacity from 2 cannons/month to 12/month.

>>64018716 (OP)
>>64018746
It's amazing how many cocksuckers decided to take your third world bait.

>>64019527
Ironic given the French designed planes from Airbus slack behind in sales.

>>64018746
whew almost forgot i had this!

>>64019519
yeah but no, the answer is in the second paragraph.

>>64019593
>1) They're Muslim
>2) They molest children
>3) Their only national value is contrarianism.
So you are suddenly talking about Russians or what?

TEST

>>64019209
Unironically, go back 2 months ago, we had articles from western intelligence pointing out Russia would target France more with its propaganda.
Now you're seeing the first results. It will only ramp up from there.

>>64018716 (OP)
Should have invested into DITA. Fuck France.

>>64019209
Because they're insufferable cunts. It's a shame they have such a beautiful nation, makes visiting a pita

>>64018716 (OP)

>spot the pooplak

>>64019209
they get attacked by psyops from three sides:
- chinks, who are ass blasted because baguettes supply stuff to pajeets;
- russians, who are ass blasted because baguettes supply stuff to ukies;
- murricans, who are ass blasted because baguettes were right about everything;

>>64019593
>French weapon designs are like Kel-Tec on a national basis
that's honestly based ngl

>>64019209
The anglo world is going apeshit. So they turn into caricature of themselves. Henceforth, more french bashing.

>>64018716 (OP)
Should ask the Ukrainians if their own 8x8 are also shit. The 6x6 have little to no issues.

>>64021005
>murricans, who are ass blasted because baguettes were right about everything;
Always a hoot to see my fellow Americans get pissy when I bring up France being right about Iraq

>>64018716 (OP)
Italian

>>64021005
France is no longer France

>>64018716 (OP)
French.
Germany has HK which improved the HK416 carbine over the years and it is getting used by more countries. Even the US Marine Corps has adopted a variant as an "automatic rifle."
Also, HK hates the uncultured poors whose culture basically revolves around cheap shitty alcohol, cigarettes, sportsball, and sucking dick.

>>64018910
>>swedes depend on american engines
Sweden has like 8 million people or some shit man, i don't think they have the industrial capacity for native modern jet engines.
personally I'm pretty amazed at the output quality compared to size to begin with.

>>64021005
>- murricans, who are ass blasted because baguettes were right about everything;

>>64019593
>their rifled HEAT rounds that float inside a rotating bearing

Tbh that's real fucking neato

>this entire thread
Can't you guys just go to /int/?

ceaser works in our country
t. eesti

>>64018716 (OP)
These French guns are decent, unironically, but without shells they are useless. This is the real reason.

>>64019583
>Their flagship multirole combat aircraft, the Typhoon,
What is it, the 1990s?

>>64018716 (OP)
>pic about French company
>randomly bring up Germany
Any bets on OP's nationality?

>>64019915
People?

>>64022790
In their defense, Putin clearly didn't plan to attack until Biden said it so often that he felt like he had to chimp out like a nigger because not doing so would make him look weak.

>>64022790
A lot of high ranking french public servant are vatniggers lovers, including the army and services.

2022 was a bless in disguise in that regard, it exposed those retards.

>>64023770
See >>64023709
He wasn't wrong in predicting Putin didn't intend to attack, which is why the army was completely unprepared and they ran out of fuel about halfway to their goal like complete retards.
It was a spontaneous chimpout.

>>64023698
KNDS is a french-german joint company, and the czech caesars use both french and german components.

>>64019727
>>64019742
>>64020924
>IT'S DA ROOOOOOOOSSIANS

>>64023798
It's two companies working together and still very separated in its organization and duties.
Caesars have fuck all to do with Germany, the only thing Germans are responsible for in more than a minor supplier role that wouldn't be relevant here is the targeting system that shouldn't be on there but which the Czechs asked for.

>>64022441
...and France is merely the world's biggest arms seller after the US.

>>64023848
>always poland
Fucking zigzogs lmao

>>64018750
For decades the German basically sold their industries to other countries, some hostiles, and they do not seem to be stopping if the Rheinmetall deal is any indication.
France would actually trust Germany to make their tanks, so long as they give (busy)work to French Industries.
But Germany would apparently rather make themselves Trump's bitch than work with their friendly rival and recognize they do better fighters.

>>64019209
Quote: "No nation has friends only interests."
Russia want to get rid of the only country who actually want a strong, united, Europe.
China obviously doesn't such thing either AND want to sell their own weapons to countries who want alternative to US equipments.
And the US, before the Donald ruined that, absolutely wanted Europe as split as possible and buying US equipment, lobbying in secret to prevent at least Germany & Europe from working together, cause -that- would make Europe more than capable of competing.

>>64019300
>France is so self-centered they likely wouldn't.
France is opening a Rafale Factory in India and the only reason they don't do more is that India is not capable.
They are the second-biggest arm exporter, the reason is that they will keep their words (so long as you aren't retarded like Russia invading countries as the new-nazi)

>>64019583
>multirole
>Typhoon
The EF was built strictly for air combat and only recently gained the ability to perform ground strike, and it's not really better for air-combat.
It's all part of Germany post-war guilt to avoid anything that could be used for ground combat and invasion (again).

>>64025905
>Quote: "No nation has friends only interests."
Might as well add Germany to the list, they also compete in the arms market and weakening France give them a stronger position in Europe, even if it also weakens Europe against hostile superpower

>>64023770
True, but there's still a lot of them around.They are the ones that were intelligent enough to tone down their vatniggatry after February 2022, but their beliefs didn't change and they never lose an opportunity to spread russian propaganda every way they can

>>64018716 (OP)
Found out I'm part french, so germany sucks more. vive le france

>>64019742
Do you know where you are?

>>64018716 (OP)
French. They will treat you like shit even if you give them literally free money
https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence/news/belgium-cant-buy-american-f-35s-and-still-join-europes-fcas-fighter-jet-programme-says-french-aviation-chief/

>>64019209
It's honestly kind of based how the French have handled constantly being smeared by American and English propaganda post-WWII without buckling. I still get other Americans going "Ugh, but they're cowards and gave up in WW2" in irl conversations when I say they're the only European power left in the modern day. These morons still haven't grasped how toothless (and spineless) Germany really is.

>>64026183
man discovers mutts are retarded

>>64026142
he isn't wrong though even "if" we hit the 3.5% and that's far from certain.
we couldn't afford and more importantly staff the 35's we have on order, the ones we are considering buying (Theo will do it because he's a coke fiend larping as based family values (while also boxxing his kids) and mister army man cooming all over his social media because he got a second hand camelback.) and FCAS.
Keep in mind that they are also floating the idea of going up to a full division and nearly dubbeling the navy. All while doing jack shit about the officer bloat, the tons of burocracy and othe retardation that sees most of defense spending being gobbled up by personnel costs.
ffs we have twice the population about 1.5 the budget and half the army Denmark has.
floating a possible partnership in FCAS is probably just a ploy to keep the socialist and francophone happy. keep in mind that our current minster of health burned a fuck ton of cash the socialist had taken in bribes for amongst other things defense contracts. That he not only dodged justice for destroying evidence but became a minster is something that can only happen is thus bannamonarchy or Italy.

>>64018785
>Standardising
This isnt 1934 anymore granddad, you can have multiple production lines competing against one another with little loss in value since their competition dropped the prices.
They are not at war, they're still using peace pricing, thus competition is actually cheaper.

>>64023848
Take your HIV meds, Ivan.

>>64023709
>because not doing so would make him look weak.
That sounds retarded.
Had monke withdrawn his troops (instead of ordering blood supplies sent to the frontline), he could've made the burgers and the bongs look like absolute utter fuckwits, scoring a yuuj PR victory.
Which would've massively weakened the US (and bong) position in Europe and elsewhere.

>>64019209
Yankees mad at french and german equipment. The usual stuff.

>>64019209
70% of responses in this thread are about germany being useless

>>64019906
reminds me with the retarded aussies and their submarines

>>64026067
Huh?

>>64018910
Volvo actually builds the engines for Gripen, and they are based on an F141 but are modified, for example the turbine blades are solid Nitinol to be able to survive FOBS.
Sweden has very little need for nuclear submarines, the only mission for the Swedish navy is controlling the Baltic, no need for long distance patrols.
It's going to be very kino if we get to see modern Swedish weapons get some use in the Cambodia/Thailand war.

>>64018716 (OP)
Considering how hard they dropped the ball on Ukraine it has to be French

fr*nch "quality" is basically nonexistent at this point. not to mention their piss poor production capability.
the illusion of fr*nch military strength is entirely "muh nookz" and "muh carrier". Neither of which has much meaning as they have neither the political will nor the economy to back it up.

>>64028256
>the part at fault is the german FCS the Czechs insisted on
Retard