Now that the P320 situation has proven SIG cannot be trusted to make a safe firearm and really just cannot be trusted period, is Hellcat objectively the best carry gun on the market right now? There are no other high capacity micro 9s that can compete other than the 365, nothing comes even close to 11+1 rounds at that size.

>>64056644 (OP)
Sorry the 365 is just better. CDS9 is number 2. After that it's Shield Plus.

>>64056672
>Sorry the 365 is just better.
It's made by SIG so it's disqualified before any other considerations.
>CDS9 is number 2
Slightly longer, thicker heavier and still taller even with a 10 round flash mag (pic is 13, much taller), so 1 round less despite being all around bigger. Not a bad contender, but clearly loses.
>Shield Plus
Even taller at 10.

>>64056695
Dimensions aren't the only thing that matter. If size to capacity is all that matters, go get that weird ass Kel-Tec 5.7

>>64056702
>Dimensions aren't the only thing that matter.
Of course, the first and most important aspect of a carry handgun is safety, which is why the p365 is disqualified from the start. Then it's reliability - neither Springfield nor M&P are known to have any issues in that department, Kimbers on the other hand have a reputation for jams. I'd say capacity to size ratio is the next important factor, given it's an objective metric. Subjective metrics such as trigger/grip "feel" are subjective and therefore not particularly relevant, especially for experienced shooters that realize "feel" is that last thing that matters for effectiveness and typically an amateurish excuse for insufficent training with a particular firearm.
> If size to capacity is all that matters, go get that weird ass Kel-Tec 5.7
You'd have a point if the PR57 was a microcompact, but unfortunately it is not. 5.7 is not a bad cartridge, so it would be a strong contender if they managed to scale it down, but then Kel-Tec is notorious for relaibility issues.

>Mill em in Mumbai, sell em to dumb guys
Sig business strategy

>>64056644 (OP)
>hellcat
Why can't Springfield or HS Produkt sell the frame safety model in western Europe ? I'm frustrated. 11+1 with safety the size of a 6+1 Glock 43 would be awesome. And yeah I want a frame safety.

>>64056714
The 365 is fine, don't be so reactionary you talk yourself out of something that's actually among the best in class.

>>64056759
Trust in the manufacturer is paramount and this simply can no longer exist for SIG. P320 situation proved they not only failed to resolve the existing issues, they flat out refuse to admit the issues exist and will not take responsibility for any accident you may have and you will need to sue. That alone is enough to disqualify any product made by them. I wouldn't say this is reactionary, 320 was flawed for years now. There are also a few issues specific to the 365, mostly with the striker (drag, breakage, light). There's also the fact that they uses indian MIM parts, proprietary rail also kinda sucks though it's minor.

>>64056779
What is this, a prepared speech or something? Get out of here with your marketing shit

>>64056793
Those glock marketers are getting sneaky with the concern trolling. Hold the line sigchad, I just bought another P320 to appendix holster. Trust the plan siggers are in control

>>64056803
I get that you're being sarcastic, but this dude sounds like ai wrote his posts around specific talking points.

>>64056793
>prepared speech
Anon I'm sorry if you cannot come up with a coherent, rational argument without prep time but that's entirely a you problem. I don't know what to tell you, read a book sometime?

What about the MC9? It's comparable in size to the 365, but slightly larger and heavier. But still quite concealable, and has 12-round mags. and you know... It's not sig.

>>64056853
Wasn't aware of this one.You're right, slightly bigger, but not by much, and unlike other handguns that are slightly larger, it offers more capacity, not less. That's decent.

>>64056866
I've heard nothing but good things about the MC9, and Canik in general. but maybe because Canik isn't as talked about (From what I have seen) there are some problems. but from the outlook, it's a great and reliable choice for concealed carry.

>>64056900
NTA but Caniks are good, just you pay out the ass for non existent magazines and they're actually quite bulky and blocky.

>>64056866
>>64056853
>pls no copy homework

The Hellcat is, by most, one of the most uncomfortable guns of this size to actually train with. It's hard to control, even with a comp, and many complain about how hard it beats up their hands. A large part of this is how small and thin it is, much like the other pistols mentioned here, but I think something about the slide to grip proportions really makes every shot feel like somebody is slapping your palm with a ruler. I've also heard rumors that it runs rather dirty, but as I personally have only shot it at range sessions and not actually owned one to care for I couldn't tell you if that's the truth.

I honestly would recommend the p365 since it's basically the gold standard for Slimline Micro-9s. I can't think of a real rational argument against it except for the trigger return spring, but a third party replacement will cost less than a lunch at McDonald's and will last you the lifetime of the pistol. I suppose you could be emotionally afraid of Sig Sauer right now, but I know very few people who regret their p365 choice.

>>64056910
What the fuck do i care if it's a copy if it's good? You get no points for originality, it doesn't make the gun any better. First thing i see on the Canik is that they have an slide release that is both ambi and large enough to be functional, unlike the tiny lever on the Hellcat, so that's already a pretty big bonus.

>>64056921
Most turkshit is turkshit but Caniks tend to be fine.

>>64056644 (OP)
Get a real gun like a real man. Six shots of 357 should be all you need.

>>64056926
I regularly get assaulted by packs of a dozen rabid children.

>>64056929
Jerry Miculek can reload in half a second with moon clips, git gud

There’s no way to know if a handgun has Indian parts.

>>64056940
fecal spectrography

>all these threads about sig, OPs pushing their favorite plastic slop to the front
vultures. Pistols are irrelevant and we should have never left the 1911.

>>64056982
There is actually a 1911 mentioned here though, retard.

>>64056793
This is a thinly veiled anti-sig thread.

>>64056994
>There is actually a 1911 mentioned here though, retard.
>ctrl + f 1911
>only two results, the first one being the post you replied too
Good one, you stupid faggot.

>>64057242
No shit? Really?

>>64057242
This, all this anti-sigmatism cannot stand. I'm calling my cousin in ASPAC to report this thread.

>>64056940
>>64056952
you know what's funny is i have a taurus that smells like fish-shit and the smell won't go away.

>>64057256
stop cleaning it with wd40 you ape

>>64057247
>Anon literally admits he can't read and a 1911 model that doesn't explicitly include "1911" in its name is beyond his severely limited comprehension
I'd just leave and hide the thread if i were you, I haven't seen a self-own like this in months. I almost feel sorry for you.

>>64057269
N

>>64057242
>thinly veiled
No actually there's no veil at all, it's a shitty company with shitty products and shitting anti-consumer practices that is being sued into oblivion right now and various companies/organizations distancing themselves from it as we speak. If you're pro-sig at this point you're unironically retarded and should be subject to a mental evaluation, retards shouldn't be trust with firearms you may actually shoot someone before your sig does.

>>64056644 (OP)
> the best carry gun on the market right now?
*ahem*

>>64057277
>malding over being called out
lol lmfao

>>64056803
This but unironically

>>64056644 (OP)
The G26 solved this problem decades ago. Between that and the G19 there is literally no point for the others unless you’re a woman

>>64056853
>Made in Turkey

>>64057288
chode grip and the g26 is irrelevant

>>64056779
Why would anyone buy Springfield products anymore? They literally tried to sell out your 2A rights

>>64057295
Get a mag with a pinkie rest or slap in an extendo mag when you visit Black Leader Boulevard

>>64057296
New controversy worst controversy ever. Old controversy not actually big deal.

>>64057296
I doubt he's going to buy a springfield gun. I doubt the retard who started this thread even owns a gun.

Lol dont let the retards gaslight you OP.

HS Produkt is S tier and the Hellcat was always better then the shitty 365.

Hellcat is built and shoots like a Duty Gun. 365 is made staying inside of female purses and never to be taking out and actually shot.

>>64057301
mouthy people got no experience. that's the constant.

>>64057326
nah, the 365 took off for a lot of good reasons, and the xmacro might be the single best carry option for the most amount of people. The 320 is a disasterpiece, but the 365 is legit good

it hurts my hand to shoot and has a lot of recoil :(
i get god awful groupings with it compared to my lcp max or 1911 because it hurts my little hands :(

>>64057262
no it's because it IS fish shit, I found it in a lake

>>64057332
It’s shit that normie consumers guzzle the cohen cum for. Anyone buying sig products is either clinically insane or trying to get a budget gender reassignment (basically two groups whose overlap is a circle). Just actual retards acting like this type of gun hasn’t existed for decades. Literally wtf. Just because it’s new to low info consumers does not make it actually new

>>64057406
slimline hicap doublestack 9s weren't really a thing, no. You had some 380s, but not 9s.

>>64057406
>>64057419
Wait, my bad, I was talking like you knew something about the history of ccw semiautos and weren't just being a bandwagoning shitlord.

>>64057406
Fuck off transphobe

>>64056644 (OP)
CSX E-Series in 3.1" is really close

>>64057419
30 years of innovation gives you a .3” smaller width and all the Indian mim parts you can handle which you’re just going to carry in your purse anyway

>>64057453
Lmao and the p365 is taller which is the actual dimension you care about when conceal carrying

>>64057453
It's slimmer, the grip is better contoured, it's actually snubbier if you like that, the trigger is considered better by everyone who doesn't slurp horse semen, it's lighter, and more controllable while offering equal or greater capacity. Don't be a fucking dumbass, the 365 checked a lot of boxes people love. You can feel free to hate Sig, but it doesn't mean all their products are automatically bad

>>64056803
>Those glock marketers are getting sneaky with the concern trolling.
I've worked in defense news reporting and had marketing guys from major defense contractors call me trying to encourage negative articles about their rivals so they had a better chance of winning contracts. It's absolutely a thing.

>Trust the plan siggers are in control
I wouldn't go that far.

>>64057479
Yes, the 320 and all the bullshit around it absolutely calls into question the safety of all their guns. Sig has demonstrated a repeated refusal to recall unsafe guns, gaslight consumers, and quietly revise designs which often introduce new problems. Sig provides absolutely nothing unique or irreplaceable. Why would someone trust their life with a tool from such a disreputable vendor?

Bodyguard 2.0 for pocket carry, HK CC9 for IWB. the hellcat sucks to shoot.

>>64057498
Dude, shut up if you're just gonna keep going through these theatrics. You're the one sounding like a shill

>>64057498
I'm Jewish so I need to have my brother's back

>>64056644 (OP)
I bought my Hellcat several years ago when the 365 was at the height of its popularity on /k/. Not to be a contrarian, I just liked it more and appreciated a trigger safety on a carry gun. I have never had any problems with it, and I am very happy with the decision today. Fuck sig.
The thing is the 365 is probably the better gun, even today. If sig's responses to criticism weren't so spectacularly bad, people would only have a problem with the 320. Instead sig shows that they are overall a horrible company, and it's making everyone lose faith in their other production lines.

>>64057509

>>64056644 (OP)
No it looks like meas.

>>64057571
Selfies should be posted on /soc/

>>64056644 (OP)
The P365 is safe to carry unless an extreme casting fault causes the striker to break in half just right.

However, it feels like shooting a ruler, the sandpaper grips blow chunks, and it should have a trigger block safety. It's small for the twinks and girlies but I'd rather this or a glock 26

bump

You're all sick people.
I hope you all get cancer. Fuck youse all.
I put a curse upon you all.
Fuck ya
mudda

>>64057597
I have a P-10S, it's a fucking brick and the most uncomfortable pistol I ever held. Literally heavier than my full-size guns, lol.

>>64056644 (OP)
Arent they dropping the hellcat? Or is that just the XD series?

>>64056644 (OP)
>There are no other high capacity micro 9s
There is the FN Reflex, Taurus GX4XL T.O.R.O., Smith & Wesson CSX, Ruger Max-9, Canik MC9, and the HK CC9. Tons of guns with a 1.5-stack magazine rather than a double-stack magazine.

>>64057597
Do you realize that is not what he asked for? Good gun, but very different from what he desires.

>>64057453
G26 will be discontinued within the decade. Can’t wait to shit on you chode fanboys.

The P320 hate is literally an anti-gun psyop. Sig is the most respected arms manufacturer in the world so anti guns shitlords are peddling some narrative that they’re unsafe and spooky because a few idiots

>>64059510
Bait or Self-Inflicted Gunshot intern, call it

>>64056644 (OP)
Ruger LCR in 327 fedmag.
I will not be elaborating.

>>64057332
I only follow non-shills and people who run their shit hard
the one guy i follow that ran a p365 variant switched away from it because his trigger return spring was breaking like three times a year
The service life of that part is commonly stated to be like 2-5k rounds by P365 users
Rhett Neumyer is his name
Meanwhile Hwansik Kim ran a PDP for 160k and changed like nothing on it
get fucked. p365's belong in purses

Get a Glock 19 idiots
more shootable than the tiny guns. Concealable enough, good enough capacity. Can be had for cheap used. Don't have to worry about reliability

>>64059672
Sigs are more modern why would I trust old tech?

>>64059672
I'd laugh about your spring breaking, but you don't shoot enough for that to be an issue.

Thats your kids father. Why did you think that was remotely humourus because youre " numb " you did the crime then said he did it to you. You think we dont know how you think. You women are fucking stupid. Dont stop at 5 now man damn. They think no one knows how corrupt security guards are. Get the fuck out. Thats ugly of all you church goers. The signs are everywhere they planned it in for some shit when it back fires and everyone gets called out. Overcharging because you think humans are your casino. Exposed

>>64057288
is the difference between 26 and 19 really that big? 17 and 26 seems like a better pair

>>64059735
I stay away from female cops idc how cool or nice they may seem they love getting good men in trouble see it too often 8th amendment.

64059683
>retarded shill
>>64059685
I don't claim to shoot the most, but I definitely shoot way more than the average American, and own many types of handguns. My three Glocks are the only semi autos I have complete trust in to go bang when needed. Is it emotional? yes. But with thousands of rounds through each one with no issues, I feel total confidence based on my fairly extensive experience with them.Glocks may not be the best in a lot of subjective and some objective metrics, but the total package is one on which I would totally rely.

>>64059751
Sorry. Germane to the Sig debate is the fact that I am 1000% confident that the Glock will not go off with out a trigger pull.

>>64059751
How many springs have you had to replace.

>>64059756
Why do so many things use SIG instead of the Glock?

>>64059762
None. By round count I'm sure two of them are due for it but they seem to be just fine.

>>64056644 (OP)
the issue with (((SIG))) P365 was the striker itself necks itself and breaks
supposedly that was fixed

No. We just need to go back to the p210.

>>64056853
thats a walther p99c thats been attacked with angle grinder
a post recall p365 is the only choice that small
that or going with a bigger gun with a SW shield plus or G43x with 15rd mags

>>64057278
>.380

>>64060087
Its good nuff

>>64057490
you really dont need to encourage it when the company makes products that make Taurus look good

>>64059612
327 with blueprinted polished chambers and loaded with 32 HR magnum

>>64059685
glocks still function with a fucked recoil spring

>>64057432
Your average sigger, everyone.

>>64060103
Loaded with watered down .327 or spiced up .32 h&r

>>64060094
if your attacker is a 90lb asian woman

>>64060097
spines, ribcages and sternums do

>>64060113
polishing the shitty Ruger chambers is the more important part

>>64057288
Never liked the Grip Zone on Glock brand Glocks.
M&P feels and points better in my hands and all models come with or without frame mounted
>inb4 b-but you'll forget to take the safety off in a high heck'n stress environmentarino
I don't care. It should still be an option.

>>64057288
>G26
>7.5% longer than the Hellcat
>4.25% higher
>30% thicker
>21% heavier
>capacity is lower
lol
o
l

Back to bed grandpa, we're discussing state of the art, not obsolete tech. You're the next generation of revolver boomers.

>>64059672
>Concealable enough
No such thing, having a gun on you as often as possible trumps any slight performance advantages. I can throw a microcompact in the pocket of my nasty unwashed dress pants and wearing a poorly fitting t-shirt on the saturday morning because I forgot to buy the fucking eggs and need to go to the store right now. If there's even one situation you can imagine where it's inconvenient to carry a compact handgun but a microcompact is fine, the microcompact wins, and there are tons of situations like these.

>>64059510
Anon's P320 shot him before he managed to finsih writing his post

>>64056644 (OP)
p365 is fine. totally different design, totally different implementation, among the most carried pistols in america and there's basically no one bitching about them. i will let the contrarians post the 5 instances of someone bitching to prove me wrong, but the p365 has a good reputation nonetheless.

>>64059683
>Why would I trust old tech?
>Sigs are more modern

>>64060131
>Grip Zone
>Glock
/k/ is the retard containment chamber in which I don't belong

>>64056753
I have no fucking clue
Same as Europe generally using pistols for competition, but HS Produkt not selling the competition trigger models in Europe but in the US instead
Kinda glad our HS Produkt importer got bought out by competition so we now get the competition trigger Springfield branded ones instead lmao

>>64059630
Replace the spring dumbass. One that won't break costs 10 bucks. I've had mine for 8k now and it's fine

>>64059630
>I only follow non-shills and people who run their shit hard
It's very interesting that i can find multiple videos of people shooting 10-20k rounds through the Hellcat in camera with no issues whatsoever, but not one for the p365.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yD_OTtNTrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFgkBXRCng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLQUOGoxfA

>>64061420
I understand that you're trying to do a general anti sig thread, but the trigger return spring being consumable is just kind of known, much like the pin in CZs. You can get an aftermarket one that will last theoretically forever.

>>64061435
Where are the 10-20k videos with trigger return spring changes thrown in? Why is no one running their p365 hard? I understand you're trying to ease your buyer's remorse, but as it stands, there is better evidence of Hellcat being reliable, objectively.

>>64061563
I carry a full size Arex, dipshit. I don't have buyer's remorse but I also don't have an axe to grind. Tons of great guns don't have burndown videos and it really doesn't affect their quality any. I don't see any Shadow 2 Compact burndowns and if you believe that's a low quality gun, you may need to be committed to a mental hospital. This is putting aside that a CCW running red hot isn't a realistic situation

>>64061580
>I don't see any Shadow 2 Compact burndowns
Shadow 2 is a great comp gun that pretty much dominates IPSC Production with multiple world championships won with it, which is solid evidence of it reliability.

Shadow 2 Compact is a stupid gun, the idea of scaling down and carrying a dedicated comp gun without a firing pin block is silly. It's worse for competing, it's not suitable for carry.
>This is putting aside that a CCW running red hot isn't a realistic situation
The point of videos like these isn't to prove they can "run hot", they clean it periodically. The point is to showcase that you are very unlikely to experience a malfunction at all, self-defense included.

>>64061593
The only point to running thousands of rounds through a pistol in a single session is to test the extremes of the heat and stress test. It is not indicative of normal wear and maintenance.
>All that dumb shit about the S2C
Kay, you're either actually retarded or so high on your own contrarianism that you can't see the drivel you're typing

>>64061600
>The only point to running thousands of rounds through a pistol in a single session is to test the extremes of the heat and stress test.
The point of a single session is credibility, retard. It's uninterrupted, uncut footage of the same gun going through enough rounds to prove it's reliable and extremely unlikely to malfunction. A video of a gun going through 1k on the other hand is not indicative of anything because it's simply not a lot of rounds. Some dude saying he totally shot 6 gorillion rounds through his without a malfunction is not evidence at all. That you can't grasp this makes me sorry for you.
>no counterarguments for Shadow 2 Compact being a silly gun
I accept your concession. Have fun carrying a brick with no firing pin safety pointed at your dick all day. In the meantime people with triple digit IQ will compete with the full size version, a setting where being a brick and having no firing pin safety are advantages. They will also carry a gun that is neither.

>>64060114
Would you be okay with being shot with a 380?
Thought so

>>64061736
Only if it was frieren shooting me

>>64056809
>trust in manufacturer (who made one (1) shitty gun) is both paramount with respect to their entire line and broken in SIG’s case
>b… because i said so!
It’s on you to make a rational argument first, glockfag. P365 is great and no I do not currently own one and I am not coping.

>>64061748

>>64061757
>>b… because i said so!
>It’s on you to make a rational argument first
It's not my fault you can't read and not up to date with current events. The arguments have been made and sig is doing what they're doing. Apply yourself.

>>64061736
>>64061797
Frog website

>>64062003
Calm down frogschizo

>>64062013

>>64057288
I am a woman

>>64062568
send bobs and vagene

>>64056644 (OP)
I have a hc pro comp. Great gun. Makes me want to put comps on all my guns lol

>>64056644 (OP)
>lets replace fragile polymer peashooter with fragile polymer peashooter
Let's just B& limp wrist faggots from the military and start issuing real handguns again.
>b-b-b-b-but contractor software engineers and women carry
P90's, that's what PDW's were made for and those are good enough for non front line use.

>>64057453
What website is this?

>>64056644 (OP)
Nope CSX 12+1 and smaller.
M&P always winning

>>64063728
such a dumb fucking take, I know you are trolling but some children might see your take.

>>64064206
>but some children might see your take and grab hold of a steel an wood magnum revolver as their first CCW rather than grab hold of a wimpy peashooter that will slowly leak microplastics into their palm especially on hot sweaty days and in due time turn them into a tranny once they reach adulthood
Good, glad I could help in terms of saving the Zoomie generation because clearly polyshit has ruined Millennials by turning them into insufferable faggots and weaklings and all that synthetic xextrogen is probably gonna cut their lives in half to so thankfully they won't be around long to bother everyone by pushing their Neo Leninism vegan bullshit.

The US really needs to stop emulating Europoors honestly and abandoning the SAA for their gimmicky semi auto's was a mistake.

>>64056779
>Trust in the manufacturer is paramount and this simply can no longer exist for SIG. P320 situation proved they not only failed to resolve the existing issues, they flat out refuse to admit the issues exist and will not take responsibility for any accident you may have and you will need to sue. That alone is enough to disqualify any product made by them. I wouldn't say this is reactionary, 320 was flawed for years now. There are also a few issues specific to the 365, mostly with the striker (drag, breakage, light). There's also the fact that they uses indian MIM parts, proprietary rail also kinda sucks though it's minor.
I still think the P320 sucks, and have misgivings about the P365 based on the 320, but eoild anyone really object to the current P210 variations if the pistols cost the same as a P320 , other than the lower mag capacity ?

>>64056803
>Those glock marketers are getting sneaky with the concern trolling. Hold the line sigchad, I just bought another P320 to appendix holster. Trust the plan siggers are in control
There is literally video of a guy blowing his testicle off with a SIG P320.

>>64063728
>he got the tiny penor gp100
Heh. i got a medium sized barrel to match my medium size penis

>>64064199
aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGFuZGd1bmhlcm8uY29tLw==

>>64061625
Literally nobody is shooting 1k rounds through a fuckin carry gun at once and it's a lot of stress on a sidearm to do that. Makes for cool videos though

>>64056644 (OP)
The p365 is fine, the issue was they beta tested it on the public. If yours isn't one made within the first 3 years of its release it's good to go.

>11+1
Noobs don't realize that means 10+1, or I'd wager the spring is still too compressed so 9+1. The p365 is a 9+1 gun, they shaved the followers down too low to advertise higher capacity, but when you have to shove that round in so hard it's clearly putting excessive pressure on your feed lips and spring that should indicate something. All major tactical schools say to download Glocks by 1-2 rounds. The USP is made with a longer follower specifically to make it impossible to overload the spring, which is why it has 2 less rounds despite the USPc being the same size as the G19. I would say you're probably good with just -1, all outfits I've worked with have been good with that.

>>64065474
>13 means 12+1 and you should underload 1 or 2 rounds
This is a problem with nearly every pistol.

Glock 43X or 48 with the Shield Arms mags.

I carried a P365 for a while but felt it was hard to shoot well on account of its subcompact nature and the trigger is very mushy. Switched to the G48 because I like to bring my carry pistol to comps and it’s more pleasant to shoot than the 43X, but if you’re focused purely on carrying the 43X is shorter and lighter. Only problem is that I don’t love the Glock perfection grip angle but this is a carry pistol so it’s meant to be used once and then thrown in a lake so whatever.