continuing from >>64043395 since we hit the image limit

>>64056709 (OP)
Reported for posting the long, thick black thing.

Portuguese FBP m/948. A cross between MP40 and Grease Gun, has the telescopic mainspring cover just like the german guns. Used in the Overseas War.

> fuck you, *un-Uzis your Uzi*

Lads, this is supposed to be a thread for sub-MACHINEGUNS, unless that Hi-Point is a cool-ass post-sample someone converted, or that CX4 is actually one of those rare MX4s, they don't quite belong.

Full-auto and select-fire, please!

>>64057273
fuck you nigger bitch

why do SMGs always look so poor and low class

>>64057366
guess you're looking at the wrong submachine guns

>>64057354
That thing BETTER have a third pin hole, Anon!

>>64057366
Because submachineguns were being made basically as expensively as rifles and machineguns during the interwar years.
Then WW2 happens, and everyone realizes "Oh fuck, we're gonna need shitloads more of these, and a lot faster!" thus virtually everyone hurries to develop more economized and simple versions.
This then ends up lingering for quite a long time, as it's easy to make a half-decent one which is dirt cheap.

Looking at Britain, they hurriedly have a captured example of a German MP28 reverse engineered to create the Lanchester. It works, but the British army just took it fully in the ass at Dunkirk and they're gonna have to replace a lot of equipment really quickly, and invest a lot more in SMGs than they had before. They can't buy more Thompsons from the Americans either, because they're too expensive and the U.S Government actually blocked them from buying more, the American Army needs them.

Thus they economize the everloving fuck out of the Lanchester, and you get the Sten, which is what they're looking for. The Sten isn't perfect, but it can be produced very quickly and cheaply, so that they can outfit British forces with enough SMGs in enough time.
Somewhat similar stories developed elsewhere in the world.

>>64057409
>>64057273
what is that?

>>64057722
no idea about the first, the second one is a luty, a home made gun designed by a brit in a shed.
i think he made some books too on how to build them at home yourself, you can probably find the whole story on the internet.

>>64057805
is it hard?

How about UZI, but Steyr?

>>64057811

>>64057807
It's designed to be easy, as in you can make it with really common hardware store parts and tools, though the regular version does not provide instructions for rifling the barrel, just to keep it simple, and it doesn't provide any sights, normally also being in 9mm Parabellum. It's really not a great gun, pretty clunky, and without sights or rifling it's limited in range, but it does function.

As for if you should, I can only advise against it unless you have the typical licensing for your jurisdiction (like being an SOT in the US), it can be a pretty serious crime, you know.

>>64057811
>>64057815
cool

>>64057932
Reminds me of Goldeneye 64

>>64058127

>>64057807
Im semi right now

>>64057815
You are actually white?
What the fuck happened to your hand? Do you have cancer or something?

>>64057811
>>64057815
What kind of fancy place is this?

>>64058686
he's got a little dry skin anon wtf are you talking about?

>>64057280
>raping a suomi mag and putting it on another gun

>>64058941
the Swedish K that the S&W was based on was actually originally able to take drums IIRC (you had a detachable magwell, and with it removed you could presumably put in a drum), so it's not *that* weird of an idea, but they really should have raped the magwell rather than the magazine itself, and made it like pic related

>>64057168
The police department here bought hundreds of these (semi auto) as patrol rifles and only gave them to sergeants. Idiotic

>>64058941
Because Suomi drums are dead reliable and hold a LOT of 9mm, they are an attractive accessory to people who own transferable subguns. It's just fun, you know?

You'd have to look around to find them, but there's been a few outfitters who have made limited runs of converted Suomi drums for some guns, like Uzis, M76s, MP5s, etc. Hell, if you had something like a Port Said (Egyptian clone of the Swedish K), a Finnish M44, or you had a 9mm MAC-11 with a Lage Max-31 upper, you wouldn't even need to do any converting, those guns accept standard Suomi drums right away.

>>64058979
I like Suomi drums, but the transferable M76 is worth FAR more money than even 10 of those drums. Converting a single magazine out of the thousands and thousands of them which are still around isn't a big deal.

>>64058701
I think that was at Illumed Arms in Reno, NV. Just outside the GSR. They are trying to open a range, so if that ever materializes you can rent and shoot that gun.

It isn't even the coolest toy in the building. Here's an Ultimax 100.

>>64057168
Oh yeah i love battlestar galactica

>>64058941
I'm a Finn and couldn't care less
They used to be like €5 at milsurp stores

love the bolt on this one, just a big square with a rod sticking out of it

>>64060960
folding magwells are the fuckin tits. loved the idea ever since I first saw a 43M

>>64058941
the drums aren't very rare here in the country of origin atleast

>>64060889
>They used to be like €5 at milsurp stores
I still find it funny they grandfathered the drums in to be permitless just because of how many people had them just for a giggle (1 § 3)
most sell sites still sperged out and banned their sale despite legality anyway

>>64061151
Note that they sold 30rd AK mags for pennies too, which are very no no and super illegal now

>>64061140
truly peak, shame it was only really the French and the Swiss who got into that concept

>>64061395

>>64061397

>>64061401

>>64061403

>>64061405
the Italians tried it out for a little bit too

>>64061410
the Czechs made a handful of attempts too, but none went into production

>>64061416

>>64061418

>>64061907
Lewd.

How come all open bolt SMGs just look like the same? Soulless stamped sheet metal, stupid short barrels compared to overall length, just meh overall designs.

>>64062498
>how come all cheaply mass produced for war SMGs all have the same form factor? To be as cheap and simple to make en masse?

That's how dumb you are, mein kleiner negger

>>64062498
> Soulless stamped sheet metal
steel's the second most soulful material you can use on a gun, after wood
you think modern railed polymer/aluminum slop is somehow more soulful?

there's also plenty of examples with nice wooden stocks, literally some of the most famous WW2 SMGs are *not* all-metal designs - the PPSh-41 has a wooden stock, the Thompson has a separate wooden stock and handguard, the MP-40 actually has a polymer lower, one of the first guns in large-scale production to use so much polymer

> stupid short barrels compared to overall length
This one is more true, and it's a consequence of simple blowback needing a long receiver, but there are still some exceptions - the MAT-49 for example is shorter than an MP5 by 90mm (both with their stocks collapsed), while having a pretty comparable barrel. And of course, telescoping bolt guns in the vein of the Uzi can be pretty compact
>>64047743
>>64043579
>>64048877

Big MAC10 in .45 ACP. I would love to try one.

>>64062809
Oops. Forgot the pic.

>>64060960
>>64061140
I've been trying to think of a way to make a gun feed from the folded position for years just because I think it'd be cool.

>>64063274
I mean, helical magazines sit in a similar position to a folded one
But as for keeping the rounds with the nose towards the gun and somehow getting them in - the Czechoslovak ZB-47 does something like that, although the magazine isn't perfectly horizontal, it's at a bit of an angle. There's a wheel of sorts that the bolt pushes as it cycles, which rotates the top round in the magazine to the appropriate position for the bolt to then pick it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYVSe6s8kGE

>>64063304

>>64063304
Helical mags are definitely cool too, but I'm also not sure how you'd design one that doesn't suck bigly.

>>64063311
there's also one other Czechoslovak prototype which seems to be based on a similar principle, but with a more conventional layout (aside from the weirdness with the magazine)

>>64062809
>>64062832
Their only purpose is to perform controlled short strokes.

>>64063326

>>64063333
Neat

>>64043433
>I posted a lot of these in the last submachine gun thread (<--which aren't well received on /k/)

Disdain for SMGs is one of the oldest fudd positions.

>It requires little or no ingenuity or engineering ability to build a submachine gun, and the existing models exhibit so few design features of interest that not much space will be given to them in this work.
Julian Hatcher, 1947

>>64064143
Julian wasn't totally wrong when he wrote that, but he failed to understand that what he was writing about was a feature rather than a bug.

>>64065643
They sold these as kits, I think. I've at least seen them on the cover of one magazine.

>>64058235
"I AM INVINCIBLE"

British Welgun, 9mm integrally suppressed SMG.
Only prototypes were built.

>>64066181

Modernized and cheapened prototype Suomi from Denmark.
Seen here with the 50-round quad-stack "coffin" magazine that's also compatible with the Swedish-K and Danish Hoeva M49.

>>64066196
Swedish Husqvarna FM44.
This weapon lost the Swedish SMG trials to Carl Gustaf's submission which would later become the Swedish-K.
A modified version of this weapon was later adopted by the Danish as their model 1949 SMG.

>>64066210
A bunch of Swedish prototypes from the previously mentioned SMG trials.

>>64066215
Egyptian Port Said Akaba, a simplified copy of the Swedish M45 submachine gun.
These were issued to tankers and other vehicle crewmen in Egypt, Syria, and Iraq.

>>64066223

>>64066210
Danish M49 SMG.
It combines features from both the Swedish Carl Gustaf and Husqvarna submachine guns.

Ingram Model 6, 45ACP.

What are your thoughts on the term "Heavy Sub Machine Gun"?
Wouldn't that just be a carbine?
t. Rimworld enjoyer

>>64066921
> Wouldn't that just be a carbine
I guess, but "carbine"'s not a very meaningful term these days - now that we're past the days of service rifles with like 30-inch barrels, basically all modern self-loading rifles are carbines, and of course semi-auto civilian versions of SMGs are referred to as pistol-caliber carbines.

I would say that there's definitely some utility to distinguishing a gun that fires 9x19mm from one that fires something like .44 Magnum (or rather a rimless cartridge with equivalent ballistics, since regular magnums might not work that well in a magazine). So, basically I'd interpret "heavy SMG" as "something chambered in a cartridge between typical pistol calibers like 9x19mm and intermediate rifle cartridges" (an intermediate-intermediate cartridge if you will... defining things as being between other things doesn't seem to be working out very well).
SMGs have historically been limited by pistols - militaries adopted SMGs in the caliber they were already using for their pistols, but SMGs, being larger and bulkier weapons, could handle somewhat more powerful cartridges. If you "liberate" SMGs from the limitation of compatibility with existing logistics, you could make them a lot more powerful, and more competitive with subcompact variants of assault rifles (which, using cartridges originally designed for 16-20-inch barrels, are of course wasting a ton of their energy - rather than having it propel the bullet, it just goes up in a nice big fireball at the muzzle).

But that's unlikely to happen. Perhaps if typical rifle cartridges become way more powerful, and thus completely unsuitable for use in compact variants in the Krinkov/CQBR form factor, there might be new developments to fill in that gap in capabilities for special forces and police units, but I don't really see everyone following the US's example with 6.8.
Maybe in the cyberpunk future where we're having to fight Terminators, I dunno

>>64067013
And one historical example which maybe fits that term pretty well - the Hungarian 39M & 43M submachine guns, using delayed blowback decades before the MP5 (although lever- rather than roller-delayed), and the rather spicy 9x25mm Mauser Export cartridge (which we could think of as sort of a cousin or sibling to 7.62 Tokarev, in that both were developed from 7.62 Mauser), with a rather long barrel to make the most of its most powerful cartridge (probably too long desu, the Soviet 7.62 Tok guns didn't have to be anywhere near as long)

>>64067019
7.63* Mauser, whoops

>>64067013
>Maybe in the cyberpunk future where we're having to fight Terminators, I dunno
expanding on this point a little bit - I always thought it was pretty funny that Deus Ex: Human Revolution had 10mm as its standard pistol caliber. It probably wasn't chosen for any particularly good reason, it's in because the original Deus Ex had it, and the original had it because it was developed in the '90s and 10mm was cool at the time.
But it actually accidentally makes a ton of sense - there's fucking Detroit gangbangers decked out with cyber-arms and shit, clearly augmentations aren't beyond the reach of the criminal element and 9mm isn't going to cut it anymore. In the lovely future of 2027, your prospective self-defense scenarios now include a cyber-nigger high on cyber-crack ripping your door off its hinges and going in, you bet more powerful calibers are going to make a resurgence.

>>64066921
>What are your thoughts on the term "Heavy Sub Machine Gun"?
Most of the immediate postwar subguns were supposed to be of that class. It's why we see drum mags and bi- and monopods on them. The soviets even experimented with belt-fed submachine guns.

The crazy Samopal's basically the last gasp of the idea and the brochure's somewhat explicit that its high cap mag is to be used to mow down dozends of people in one go.

>>64067019
Ah, the Danuvia guns. Criminally underrated weapons. They were easily among the best SMG's of the time.

>>64066921
They were typically guns chambered in hot pistol calibres before the intermediate cartridge proper became a thing

>>64066254
>that layout
Jonathan?

>>64060889
>the finns couldnt care
i do anon

>>64067953
>machine gun drawn by an aboriginal child