>moving barrel in an infantry rifle just for some recoil reduction
>results in abhorrent accuracy and a complicated gun
What the fuck were these retards thinking? They could have achieved 80% of the recoil reduction by simply using a slightly long bolt movement à la Stoner's constant recoil designs (not quite so long tho since there's not much space) and they'd have gotten a rifle with good recoil and accuracy in a very simple design.

>>64065818 (OP)

If the barrel is already moving, you can just use the barrel movement to reload the gun (long or short recoil operation, 100+ year old technology). I suspect this gun was designed by a committee.

>>64065844
I suspect they got a more balanced recoil curve by using a gas piston system.

>>64065818 (OP)
>>64065851
Their system is modified constant recoil system.
Constant recoil system have problem of having "negative" recoil when bolt closes and slams into forward position. Then short peak of recoil when gun fires but bolt yet not started movement backwards.
You see these forces on recoil graph in ultimax patent
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4475438A/en

GD system is when barrel locked together with bolt and op rod floar freely together during bolt closing (no impact on receiver barrel moves forward), and no recoil on receiver during shot and closed bolt (barrel moves back with bolt together).
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130047833A1/en

>>64065865
For semi auto fire you still have the negative recoil problem.

>>64065818 (OP)
>>64065844
>Ça Ira! intensifies

>>64065818 (OP)
accuracy isn't necessary when you're laying down suppressive fire, which is what these weapons are designed for. if a kill shot is what you need, a bullpup suppressed tupperware container is not the rifle for the job

>>64065818 (OP)
May we see this poor accuracy?

>>64065818 (OP)
the worst offender on this gun is the coke can

>>64065962
Yeah bullpup bolts are available if required in that role.

>>64065962
>accuracy isn't necessary when you're laying down suppressive fire
Stop posting.

>>64065932
You don't on the closed bolt setting

>>64066135
He's right though. When firing burst or full auto on the move, but honestly even with picking shots, 3-5moa is perfectly reasonable for a service rifle for any usage today. The army didn't require 0.5moa or something in the contract specs for a reason. Obviously one would want to do better in a dmr or sniper role but those are getting more specialized at this point anyway. We don't see ukrainian snipers using anything close to the typical trench gun.

>>64066154
The M27 is more accurate in full auto than the M249 with single shots, and it pays off. Going from 4 MOA to 2 MOA reduces the number of rounds required to achieve the same suppression effect by 4 times.

>>64066261
>suppression effect
how is this effect measured?

>>64066142
You have with any semi auto. After shot guns dips slightly down when bolt slam forward .
Supposedly on SCAR it so hard it brakes scopes (scopes are designed to take impact from one side, from recoil, their lenses are braced again edges on that side, in the other side it's glue that holds lenses and they fall out).

>>64066261
>The M27 is more accurate in full auto than the M249 with single shots, a
That is bs.

>>64065818 (OP)
I don't think that the reciprocating barrel was the main cause of poor accuracy in the post-testing review by GT. During the NGSW trials it did meet the accuracy requirements so it was probably just a worn out barrel. The SRIA, though questionably useful on an infantry rifle, was tested on the LWMMG without incident (to my knowledge).
>What the fuck were these retards thinking?
They wanted to make it the automatic rifle too, not that I disagree with you though. Sig was apparently able to win with a fucked up MCX variant so they honestly could have gotten away with a completely conventional action, not even constant recoil. They really should have just offered a downscaled LWMMG/RM338 + rebarreled M240 as the MG instead of compromising the rifle design, which if not for this action would have the perfect bullpup exterior form.

if you want to jack up muzzle energy, you need to compensate for the platform firing it. in this case a human shoulder.

>>64066400
The M27 is 1 MOA in semi and 3-4 auto. The M249 is 4 semi and 10-15 auto.

>>64065818 (OP)
Define "abhorrent accuracy."

>>64065818 (OP)
>results in abhorrent accuracy
Source?

What?! You made it up?!?!?

>>64066506
The 249 does not have a semi feature

>>64066728
I'm aware, which is why I said "single shots" rather than "semi" in my first post. I was distracted when I wrote that reply.

>>64065818 (OP)
That's only in open bolt. That's the beauty of the design - it can be switched from open to closed bolt operation depending on the scenario: precision or volume. You are a gay boy

>>64066506
>The M249 is 4 semi and 10-15 auto.
lol the new Sig shitrod that's replacing it is 8 MOA in semi and 10+ in auto brand new from the factory.

>>64065818 (OP)
That gas piston system looks identical to my Beretta ARX100. Super simple and elegant short stroke piston system with no springs.

>>64066135
He’s right. Western infantry tactics are to use infantry to make contact with enemy elements and to keep the enemy elements from moving through suppressive fire and man portable ordnance while heavy ordnance from fast air, rotor wing, artillery, or drone finishes the fight. Casualties inflicted by the suppressive fire are incidental and considered a bonus. It’s a low risk but expensive way to commit war, and since western nations are politically casualty averse and also relatively wealthy so they can afford fighting this way. The accuracy of basic infantry weapon systems doesn’t need to be 2.0moa or better. SOF? Absolutely. But not basic dudes.

>>64066295
unironically vibes. When bullets come at you, you don't pull out a caliper and start measuring the enemy MOA

>>64065818 (OP)
>They could have achieved 80% of the recoil reduction by simply using a slightly long bolt movement à la Stoner's constant recoil designs
Show me your math.

>>64066763
>The beauty of the design is an insane level of complexity and the worst trigger of all time

>>64067073
>t. BMP-T designer

>>64066389
>SCAR
Vastly exaggerated problem.

>>64067097
Dampers/shock absorbers are all about spreading the force of an impulse over a longer duration, reducing felt effect. This is such basic engineering that conceptually you shouldn’t need the math to simulate it in your brain… wait, are you one of those soulless fuckers who can’t imagine an apple?

>>64066506
>The M27 is 1 MOA in semi and 3-4 auto
Both are total bs.
M855 acceptance rate from ballistic barrel is 4 MOA. On average M855 is like 3 MOA.

>>64067351
While exaggerated it’s still an issue. It’s like this, the components inside a scope are near mechanical watch-like in size. Getting these small mechanical movements to also be shock resistant is quite something. Getting them to be shock resistant and light weight is another entirely, and expensive. Good scopes don’t fail on scar’s but you’ve gotta pay for that.

>>64067356
Stop deflecting and answer the question, or admit you made up that 80%.

>>64067366
I hate m855. You can tell when a round’s internal steel core isn’t concentric. I’ve lead sled m855 and it will be fine, and thrn you might have a flier or a string of fliers where the core isn’t concentric to the jacket. M193 doesn’t have this problem and is the superior round for basically everything.

>>64067372
It’s not deflection at all. And it’s certainly not made up. Not my fault you can’t understand it. I’m sure there are plenty of videos you can watch about impulse over time.

>>64066797
>>64066154
suppressing fire requires the shooter to be accurate; bullets need to be consistently landing where the enemy is/wants to be. otherwise you're just making noise

>>64067388
Still not seeing any numbers

Show your math. Or post a source for that 80%.

Or admit it's made up.

>>64066779
I'm amazed that the alleged purpose of the NGSW is to extend every infantryman's range, yet Sig's garbagerod shoots 6 goddamn MOA, that's not even within the bare minimum of acceptable, any old M4A1 with a free-float tube and ACOG will outshoot this supposed next generation weapon.

>>64067366
That's bullshit because the M4's acceptance requirement is 4 MOA with M855. If M855 shoots 4 MOA from a lead sled then it would be impossible for any 5.56 rifle to be accepted.

>>64066779
>>64067408
The Sig is 3 MOA with match ammo, probably around 4 MOA with the GP ammo. I wouldn't be surprised if thre Army fudges the numbers on it a bit but there's absolutely no way they would accept a 6 MOA weapon regardless of the politics involved.

>>64067501
Grunts field testing the Spear are not getting even 4MOA.

>>64066779
PKM is like 30 MOA full auto.

Total OVERMATCH over RUS Crimea/ISIS Hybrid

>>64067514
Since you're claiming specific knowledge, can you please provide a source for it?

>>64065818 (OP)
This unironically the gun with the smoothest recoil I have ever seen. Maybe only the constant recoil LMGs look better when shooting. It just fucking chugs and you can even see it sort of hold the cartridge there before it flies out. A really fucking cool and revolutionary weapon imho, especially with the plastic ammo, which is why it needed to be forgotten and replace by an AR-10 obviously. Burgers just can't help themselves trying new things

>>64067501
Not the rifle. The LMG. Sig's own rep gave the 8/10 numbers as a best case scenario.

>>64067690
Imagining making it in 5.56...

>>64067866
Imagine making it in 6mm-224 Valkyrie.