With the realization growing around the world that the FA-50/T-50 is a Korean lemon, especially by those who operate both like Poland, many countries are seeking a return to the M-346.

In much the same way, we can expect those that were looking to the KF-21 as a possible fifth-gen alternative to the F-35 to look to the Kaan instead when it becomes apparent that KAI too, will overpromise and underdeliver. Indonesia, the very country cofunding the KF-21's development, has already signed a deal for 48 Kaans which is even further away from introduction. That's how little confidence there is in the KF-21

>>64070252 (OP)
>With the realization growing around the world that the FA-50/T-50 is a Korean lemon
Lol, no.
>Poland, many countries are seeking a return to the M-346
Poland won't purchase any more trainers at this point.
>we can expect those that were looking to the KF-21 as a possible fifth-gen alternative to the F-35 to look to the Kaan instead when it becomes apparent that KAI too, will overpromise and underdeliver. Indonesia, the very country cofunding the KF-21's development, has already signed a deal for 48 Kaans which is even further away from introduction
Lol wut? KAAN isn't even flying at this point where as KF-21 has flown over 1300 sorties, which is 300 sorties away from its completion. Indoniggers making multiple false promises to anyone isn't even a new thing.

>>64070280
>KAAN isn't even flying at this point where as KF-21 has flown over 1300 sorties
First of all that is wrong, but even so that's because Türkiye actually want it to at least be a stealth aircraft, unlike the koreans who simply want it to fly, and all the cop out design choices of the KF-21 point to that.

>>64070252 (OP)
Why does this thread feels more like a thinly veiled turkroach thread about the we wuz KAANz instead of a m-346 thread?
Regardless, I live "near" Kingsville and I hope we'll see that cute trainer flying here in the future.

>>64070280
>Lol, no.
Why is Indonesia, a partner of the KF-21 and an operator of the FA-50/T-50 in talks to buy the M-346 then?

>>64070252 (OP)
where is that realization growing, among disgruntled military autists from xitter? Poland already invested into AIM-9X, AIM-120 and AESA radar integration after operating those jets for a while and there are no plans to cancel anything

>>64070367
>even so that's because Türkiye actually want it to at least be a stealth aircraft
Yeah, in your dreams maybe lol. Current Kaan doesn't even have its engine developed yet lol.
>>64070398
Why should we care about a nation that got caught red handed for stealing confidential data from KAI? Thirdies will do thirdie shits, that's all.

>>64070435
>Poland already invested into AIM-9X, AIM-120 and AESA radar integration after operating those jets for a while and there are no plans to cancel anything
Actually, the Poles finally caved and were forced to buy new-old stock 1980s AIM-9Ls even though they operate AIM-9X just to give their FA-50s literally any kind of weapon because the gooks were massive kikes. They refuse to integrate either AIM-9X or AIM-120 unless someone else pays for the integration, so the entire Block 20 program is currently dead in the water because gooks refuse to pay to upgrade their own planes. It's pretty funny how quickly gooks went from touting Poland as this major export success between that and K2PL domestic production being dead in the water. The only time it's still brought up is when Korea delivers a handful of K2s or K9s that were initially slated for ROKMC service, but swiped away to meet delivery requirements. Meanwhile the ROKMC is still operating M48s.

>>64070460
>Current Kaan doesn't even have its engine developed yet lol.
Current KAAN uses american engines and in house components and avionics, while near future KAAN will use TF35000 engines.
Current KF-21 and future KF-21 will always use american engines and components

>>64070252 (OP)
Btw, BAE just announced that it's collaborating with SAAB and Boeing on T-7 instead of purchasing M-346 from its GCAP partner lol. What an embarrassment.

>>64070467
>while near future KAAN will use TF35000 engines
2 more weeks am I right?
>Current KF-21 and future KF-21 will always use american engines and components
Which is why it's currently flying and Kaan is forever grounded lol. Also, rolls royce is currently pitching its engine technology to replace F414 but we'll see about that.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/skorea-kf21-phasing-engines-partnership-rolls-royce

>>64070485
>2 more weeks am I right?
2 more weeks™ is still better than never like the KF-21
>forever grounded
It's literally doing flight tests right now?
>Rolls Royce
Well, it takes courage to admit your country will never be able to develop an engine.

>>64070469
>BAE just announced that it's collaborating with SAAB and Boeing on T-7 instead of purchasing M-346 from its GCAP partner lol.
>https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeingsaab-talks-with-bae-uk-jet-trainer-bid-sources-say-2025-07-29/
An unconfirmed rumor is very very far from "BAE just -announced- that it's collaborating"
Or can you provide me with the actual announcement from BAE?

>>64070500
>Proposals are at an early stage and details are still to be worked out
>with no guarantee that an agreement can be reached, one of the sources said.
nuff said

>>64070491
>2 more weeks™ is still better than never like the KF-21
Lol, what? 16000lb engine development is already on schedule though.
>It's literally doing flight tests right now?
You mean the flying mock up that Erdogan pulled off for the election? How many time has it flown ever since then?
>Well, it takes courage to admit your country will never be able to develop an engine.
Kek, the cope is unreal. You wouldn't even believe South Korea is preparing 10,000 lb engine for its UCAV.
https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircraft-propulsion/kai-unveils-carrier-based-ucav-concept-south-korean-navy
And it's currently being developed by Doosan Enerbility which has developed H class gas turbine from scratch, and unlike turkroaches they actually have the technology and infrastructure to bring it all together.

>>64070512
>development is already on schedule though
yet you don't have anything actually built, only a png to trick potential customers.

>>64070500
>>64070502

>Proposals are at an early stage and details are still to be worked out
>with no guarantee that an agreement can be reached, one of the sources said
The very fact that they approached Boeing in advance to approaching its nearest neighbor really speaks volumes kek.

>>64070464
AIM-9Ls are leased for training and pilot qualification
Korea will obviously not pay for integrations because they already have a lot of big boy planes and aren't expecting to use LCA in combat roles the same way Poland intends to

>>64070517
>yet you don't have anything actually built
You don't have anything flying though?
>only a png to trick potential customers.
Wtf are you talking about? 10,000 lb engine is already under development and it uses the same core that was developed for 5,500 lb engine that was developed prior.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/biz.chosun.com/en/en-industry/2025/04/07/XIL6AX7HDBCQZHI7IJA5PAWXWI/
>DAPA and ADD are also developing a 10,000lbf aircraft engine. Doosan Enerbility, which has gas turbine engine technology for power generation, is also participating. The budget set by DAPA totals 360 billion won by 2031, of which 150 billion won is allocated to the 5500lbf engine budget. Research is currently underway on crucial components such as turbine aerodynamics-cooling design and technical evaluation for the 10,000lbf turbo fan engine. As output increases, materials that can withstand high temperatures are required.

>DAPA started developing a 16,000lbf advanced aircraft engine at the end of last year. The goal is to create an engine that delivers higher performance than the engine mounted on the Korean Fighter KF-21 (rated at 14,770lbf). DAPA is dividing development tasks to leverage the strengths of Hanwha Aerospace and Doosan Enerbility that participated in the development. This approach is interpreted as a way to induce competition among companies while minimizing conflicts.

Again, roaches are sharking as usual.

>>64070521
>The very fact that they approached Boeing
Do you have a source on that?
The Reuters article I posted is literally the first public source of this potential agreement and it doesn't specify who contacted who. In regards with military procurements it's common to see which options you have available before committing to a decision.

The RAF main deciding factor will be related to the training pipeline for the GCAP and having something designed or at least built in the UK. The M-346 is already ready for that role and the T-7 can obviously be modified for that since it's still stuck in early development. Regarding the second criteria they have zero chances unless they decide to award Aeralis and hope they can actually deliver on their promises and while they wait they'll keep sending their pilots to Italy for training.

I'll admit immediately that I am biased, but even with the might of the US behind I don't see the UK choosing the T-7 that realistic considering all other aspects. Especially when we consider the economies of scale for their required numbers

Hell, there was a flurry and still is of article saying top brass in Japan were lusting over the T-7 and wanted it for these same reasons yet the latest tangible clue as for their next training was them unveiling the T-X trainer mockup which looks like a M-346 adapted to their needs, hinting that they might just go the DIY route like they did with their F-2.

>>64070464
even the italians said the poles were wrong

>>64070561
M-346 had mission capable rates around only 50% and part deliveries were notoriously delayed, the solution suggested by the manufacturer was to build up a stock worth tens of millions just in case italians fuck up again
one of many reasons behind FA-50 purchase

>>64070252 (OP)
The only reason to have manned aircraft in this day and age is for the political implications of killing a forging national.
I'm pretty fucking sour I never got to fly.

>>64070585
>M-346 had mission capable rates around only 50%
Weird, why did that happen (if it ever happend) only to the poles? Literally every single other operator for the M-346 is happy about their purchase and has full MCR rates in line with the rest of their fleets
>https://www.blogbeforeflight.net/2021/03/israeli-m346-lavi-trainer-jet.html
The frogs even started sending some of their pilots to the IFTS to train on the M-346 after they saw it in the Casaux air base operated by Singapore.
>part deliveries were notoriously delayed
I wouldn't say that placing an order outside the proposed deal then complaining about 2 months of delay is that fair, because those same parts they "ordered" weren't in their initial contract. So while we were already working on the deliveries for the next customer they wanted priority treatment despite them not ordering them in the first place.
>the solution suggested by the manufacturer was to build up a stock worth tens of millions
Which is normal (and it wasn't "tens of millions")you're supposed to keep a stock of spare parts that will last you at least 3 airframes, we told them that and they refused, despite this being common practice.
>one of many reasons behind FA-50 purchase
No, the reason they purchased the FA-50 (without a public tender) was because they were looking for a replacement for their SU-22s. And they got a better deal on the korean tanks in return, something Italy obviously couldn't offer. Not to mention that LIFT training and F-35 training for their pilots that are going to Arkansas is done on the M-346, precisely because the FA-50GF is not suited for that and the deliveries for the FA-50PL haven't started

>>64070585
>>64070638
>https://www.blogbeforeflight.net/2020/06/israeli-m346-lavi-50000-sorties.html
To add, the M-346 in Israel is one of their aircraft with the highest mission capability rate of their entire fleet. and the same is shown in every other nation that adopted them, even current poland despite them complaining at first.

>>64070644
>even current poland despite them complaining at first.
The matter is even more hilarious when you remember that their claim of
>"half of the M-346 "Bielik" aircraft were inoperable" and "over 40% of graduates graduating in 2019–2020 with a specialization in jet aircraft pilots (PSO) had never trained on a jet aircraft"
that appeared in the financial plans of the Armed Forces Modernisation Fund after Leonardo offered them the M-346FA for replacing their SU-22s, had no real source that could be investigated when Leonardo even said that if that was the case they would've helped with an investigation. And said claims magically disappeared after they chose the FA-50, with their M-346s suddenly springing back to life and having no issue.
>https://www.nik.gov.pl/analiza-budzetu-panstwa/archiwum/kontrole-czastkowe-2021.html
>https://www.nik.gov.pl/analiza-budzetu-panstwa/archiwum/kontrole-czastkowe-2024.html
Now, I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but it almost looks like they tried to portray the M-346 as unreliable so that they would have an excuse to not issue a public tender for the SU-22 replacement and choose the FA-50 which could give them a better deal on the K2 tanks.

>>64070533
The KAAN is likely to receive more than 300 orders from foreign customers by 2030. You can screenshot this post.

>>64070533
>You don't have anything flying though?
what is this then?

>>64070512
>You wouldn't even believe South Korea is preparing 10,000 lb engine for its UCAV.
another cute png, meanwhile we actually have stuff in the air

>we t*rkARYANDEITIES are now a hopium source for other turdies like russians and chinks are
geeeeeg

>>64070790
looks like a cartoon

Whats hilarious is that the turks couldn't even build their own 1915 Çanakkale bridge--the longest suspension bridge in the world. They had to hire two Korean companies because they lacked the ability to manufacture the materials, lacked expertise with engineering of the cable runs, lacked the environmental engineering pedigree, and needed their construction equipment and experience to make it possible. The Koreans allowed them to complete the bridge under budget and a year faster than anticipated.

Whats hilarious is that the turks couldn't even build their own 1915 Çanakkale bridge--the longest suspension bridge in the world. They had to hire two Korean companies because they lacked the ability to manufacture the materials, lacked expertise with engineering of the cable runs, lacked the environmental engineering pedigree, and needed their construction equipment and experience to make it possible. The Koreans allowed them to complete the bridge under budget and a year faster than anticipated. And yet they are mocking Koreas ability to develop a jet. heh

>>64070886
he's probably from SEA. nobody in turkey cares about mocking korea.

>>64070886
yes but

What a strange thread. The KAI FA-50 has been pretty flawless from what I've read, the early predictions blocks are limited but Block 20 with BVR capabilities are already in production. And the M-346 had a lot of problems IIRC in Poland which is why they stopped ordering more and instead got the FA-50

>>64070988
>What a strange thread.
It's obviously a thread made to promote the KAAN by a turk trying to pass as an italian promoting the M-346. At first I tought it was armatard since the MO is the same.
>And the M-346 had a lot of problems IIRC in Poland
see >>64070664 >>64070644 >>64070638
If the M-346 really had problems they would've stopped at their first contract for 8 ordered in 2014, meanwhile they ordered 4 mores with a new contract in 2018, and another 4 in 2021. It's pretty clear what their play was here. And I'm not even making an argument about which jet is better for replacing the SU-22 since even with my bias for the M-346 I admit that, for that specific role, the FA-50 would be better suited due to the supersonic capability. The M-346FA already has other advantages like israeli EW packages, more weapon integrations and parts commonality, but if their aim was the deal with the tanks etc then my only gripe was the smear campaign that they themselves couldn't prove.

>>64071012
>At first I tought it was armatard since the MO is the same.
nta, but it could be, recently he made similar thread with the gripen trying to compare it to the F-35. Insulting russian armaments often makes him come out of hiding.

>>64070988
>but Block 20 with BVR capabilities are already in production
They are still waiting for the integration of the RTX aesa radar and various armaments.

>>64070381
because it is

>>64070512
>16000lb engine development is already on schedule though
Yeah for entry into service sometime in the very late 2030s or early 2040s assuming nothing is delayed.

30,000lbf+ engines would be sometime in the late 2040s or early 2050s.

The FA-50 is the new A-4/F-E, a plane for turd worlders who can't afford real fighter jets

No amount of Leonardo /k/ope will change the fact

>>64071012
That's one sexy ass jet

>>64070548
>unless they decide to award Aeralis and hope they can actually deliver on their promises
The interesting one for the this as far as GCAP goes is there is already a partnership between Aeralis and Shin Maywa for some design frameworks, so maybe it could be expanded on for advanced design and production.
https://aeralis.com/2023/03/14/aeralis-announces-digital-engineering-contract-with-shinmaywa/

>>64070252 (OP)
>With the realization growing around the world that the FA-50/T-50 is a Korean lemon
You tankie/kremlin/mystery meat retards really are boring.

>>64070252 (OP)
>FA-50
https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/31/new-usn-trainer-rfi/

Pentagon should force everyone to standardize on a clean-sheet version of basically M-346 as not just trainer but main combat aircraft.

These days "jet fighter" is really just missile-truck/radar-picket.

Make it Zero-Launch baked in and put them in one of the hangers of even frigate or even down to LCS. With A2A refueling they don't need to land on same boat they blasted off from.

Maybe make it side-by-side seating with option for even 4 seats, for ASW/AWACS, and even medical evac or kommando insertion.

why do countries like poland even want to use trainer aircraft in combat roles?
no matter what upgrades you slap on one of these things it would get absolutely destroyed in a peer conflict, and it's not like poland is going to be involved in low level coin operations any time soon

>>64074373
>why do countries like poland even want to use trainer aircraft in combat roles?
Cost.
>it would get absolutely destroyed in a peer conflict
Only the US can afford a sustained peer conflict so politicians simply buy something good enough.

South Korea built the FA-50 because their main adversary has a shitton of MiG-21s that they don't need to waste their F-16s, F-15s and F-35s on it.

The FA-50 is practically a F-22 against a MiG-21.

Turd worlders bought it because it's cheap and good enough for their needs since none of them will ever be in a real shooting war.

Not sure what Poland's excuse was, they should have helped out a fellow European MIC like Italy with the M-346 but then again they probably don't want a half-vatnik plane even as a jet trainer.

Hilarious turkroach cope here

>>64074136
At first I tought the new trainer they showed was the result of that, but on the placard at DSEI I remember it was presented by Mitsubishi.
A new trainer based on the M-346 like the mockup would solve the issue of the UK representing their own industries, but I can't see how useful for the UK is a trainer with an integrated gun and being as big as an F-16 (if the model they shown was actually to scale).
Would Leonardo even get a single penny from such a project? No, but it's still better than either the UK or Japan actually going to the T-7 route, especially after all the grand posturing that these countries have made lately about being less reliant on the US in matter of defence.
Aeralis has zero experience in making any kind of aircraft, while ShinMaywa has made anphibious aircrafts but never a jet IIRC. If the UK doesn't care about money they could stall for time and after 2030 send ALL their pilots to Decimomannu, Lecce, Sheppard and Kalamata and wait for Aeralis to deliver.

The Hurjet is better than all these other trainers. In less than a decade it will be sold more than the F-16.

>>64074861
>Not sure what Poland's excuse was
tank procurement and becoming an MRO for the fa-50. If other EU countries buy the FA-50 it could turn well for poland, if not it's a waste.

>>64074136
where did I see this design before?

>>64074867
>Would Leonardo even get a single penny from such a project?
That depends on how much they are going to change from the M-346 base design. We already saw that it's going to have an internal cannon and a boom RR instead of a probe. They could simply go the chink way like with the L-15 and copy the design while only receiving pointers from Yakovlev, them receiving no money directly.
Or they could simply go the route of improving the base design and pitching to Leonardo that all future M-346 should have the modifications that the Japanese are going to make, making it a joint venture that significantly lowers development costs.
Recently Honeywell even pitched the same F124 engines that the M-346 uses to Japan for their next projects, and at DSEI there was quite a bit of material at their booth IIRC.

>>64071012
>for that specific role, the FA-50 would be better suited due to the supersonic capability
In a CAS/COIN role the twin engine is better for reliability and survivability. Same reason the A10 has 2 engines.

>>64070464
>K2PL domestic production being dead in the water.
what the fuck are you talking about you liar? this just got signed on August 1

>>64079711
He's a krautard who claimed that South Korea is delivering K2 to Poland only because they're sacrificing domestic demands.

>>64079752
doesn't that picture show 0 deliveries?

>>64071012
>It's pretty clear what their play was here
If you look at blog posts during the acquisition period people and media tought the same thing. BTW, the Bielik demo team might recolor the jet for next year heritage flight

>>64079805
I need to correct myself it will be painted only if they approve the cost

>>64079805
Now that's a fucking nice livery. It looks almost the same as the british heritage Typhoon one.

>4+ shill threads reeing about Korean aircraft during peak multipolar hours
Who'd the gooks piss off?

>>64080115
has to be that indonesian

>>64080116
>>64080115
Most likely the turks or maybe a new tactic from Armatard from what I can see.
India is now considering the K-21 for their MRsomething program. And I think there was another potential customer who was at first rumored to be eyeing the KAAN but then steered towards the K-21.

Personally I'm squatting in this thread just because of the M-346 having been mentioned. Talk about the M-346 and I'll be there.
Indonesia meeting with Leonardo is a joke as Indonesians promise to buy everything but their own budget allocations show otherwise. The Kasau meeting with Leonardo last week is the same. They've been here in Venegono to enjoy our hotels and presentations about the M-346, M-345, AW189 and AW249 at least 3 other times, and there is a reason why Leonardo didn't make a public press release statements unlike with every single other (real) future customer before.

>>64080292
>>64080115
Dunno, but the whole thing reeks of Warriortard.

>>64080292
what are those cables on the glass?

>>64080551
Explosives. No, I am not joking.

>>64080551
It's for blowing the glass in the canopy if you have to eject. Usually you don't see them on jets because the assumption is when you gotta eject, you're flying so the airstream will throw the canopy off if you blow it off the airframe at the hinges. You see them on VSTOLs because might not have any forward velocity so e.g. a Harrier has that. The M346 has it because it's a trainer and it's more likely to get in uncontrolled situations and it's not guaranteed the canopy will get off in time.

>>64080893
>because it's a trainer and it's more likely to get in uncontrolled situations and it's not guaranteed the canopy will get off in time.
Isn't the whole explosive deal just a matter of the seat having or not having a rocket assisted canopy? The F-35 has detcord as well. IIRC the Harrier.

>>64080914
>the seat having or not having a rocket assisted canopy
nta, but I think that's one of the reasons, both the F-35 and the M-346 don't have the rockets and simply explode the glass. How they decide which to use, I don't know. I do remember that it's more common on European aircrafts tho.

>>64070367
It’s spelled Turkey
Because they have the collective intelligence of a gaggle of barnyard birds lmao

>>64081137
it's spelled türd gây you fucking retard

>>64081137
your jealosly is showing

>>64079781
yes

>>64079752
>South Korea is delivering K2 to Poland only because they're sacrificing domestic demands.
They are though you nigger. They upped production from 3-4 a month to 10 a month and its still caused K2 deliveries to completely stop to the ROKA.
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/south-korea-directs-entire-k2-black-panther-tank-production-to-poland-amid-exclusive-production-shift
>In this documentary, Hyundai Rotem has confirmed that the factory's full output is currently assigned to the Polish contract, with no parallel production for South Korean Army orders being carried out at this time.
>The current allocation of all production resources to Poland may result in a temporary delay in deliveries to the South Korean Army.
>However, with Hyundai Rotem prioritizing export fulfillment, domestic deliveries could be postponed unless additional production capacity is secured or output is split across two assembly lines.
You left the last thread when this was pointed out so hopefully you'll just ship here too.

>>64082911
oh snap

>>64080292
Shut the fuck up you bastard. You think that just because you are a Leonardo employee, you have the right to shit up /k/ for the past month with your stupid anecdotes. Fuck off before I report ypu to SISMI for leaking information. Dirty MIC shill

>>64082911
it's joever

>>64080292
looks like you were right >>64084009
>>64084265
the kaan will never be a reality

>>64084312
cope gook https://www.overtdefense.com/2025/06/27/fa-50pl-project-stalls-amid-ambitious-delivery-schedule/

>>64084265
>shit up /k/ for the past month
Lmao what? I made 3 threads in the past year and 2 of them was even unrelated to aviation.

>>64084265
>shit up /k/ for the past month
Lmao what? I made 3 threads in the past year and 2 of them were unrelated to aviation.

>>64070790
A literal desperation play by ripping the engines off of another jet
Best you got, roachy?
Didn't expect much from brainwashed shills who can't into even tanks or howitzers but this is just pathetic even for you.

>>64084900
>current confirmed kf-21 customer
none

>>64070252 (OP)
Still better than vassal state planes

>>64070252 (OP)
What is this, a jet for ants?