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Thread 64377017

49 posts 18 images /k/
Anonymous No.64377017 [Report] >>64377028 >>64377106 >>64378494 >>64378517 >>64378621 >>64378648 >>64378720 >>64378890 >>64378941 >>64379391 >>64379416 >>64379596 >>64379651 >>64380863
Are NLOS missiles and loitering munitions going carriers to replace tanks the same way missile destroyers with VLS cells replaced battleships and battlecruisers?
Anonymous No.64377028 [Report] >>64379076 >>64379678
>>64377017 (OP)
Partly.
IMO multirole direwct fire gun carriers will still have value, but the true MBT with heavy directional armor and a heavy anti-armor gun will be replaced.
Anonymous No.64377031 [Report] >>64379251
>Warfare will just keeo on getting more distopic(how the tau fight)
We need supersoldiers able to shoot this down asap.
Anonymous No.64377106 [Report] >>64379553
>>64377017 (OP)
you have to have an industrial base that can shit out missiles 24/7 for them to make sense. so china can pull this off, but not really anyone else.
Anonymous No.64378494 [Report] >>64378522
>>64377017 (OP)
For anti-armour maybe but the cannon will remain relevant as a way of throwing a lot of HE at buildings you don't like.
Anonymous No.64378517 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
missiles are expensive, hard to reload under fire, and you cant carry a lot of them in a single space
missiles are also easier to intercept than kinetic rounds, kinetic rounds are also much more effective than missiles within 2kms since they hit the target

missiles will be a complement to tanks, not a replacement
Anonymous No.64378522 [Report] >>64378534
>>64378494
for anti-armor, its a lot harder for APS to intercept KE rounds than it is to stop HE rounds
a best-case scenario intercept still results in a high speed lump of metal that requires thick armor to stop
the closer your target is, the more efficient it is to simply punch a hole in it with a KE round, since the flat, high velocity, round will strike with the same precision as a guided missile
Anonymous No.64378534 [Report] >>64378538
>>64378522
I think in the longer term EPF warheads will replace HEAT to allow standoff distances greater than APS intercept range.
Anonymous No.64378538 [Report] >>64378546
>>64378534
no one is really doing anything like that
the only time an EFP was used for a warhead was on the TOW, but its designed to fire downwards a very short distance

EFPs are primarily used by the APS itself rather than the projectile, if anything
Anonymous No.64378546 [Report] >>64378553
>>64378538
>no one is really doing anything like that
It's been used in the BLU-108 SFW for decades and the Bonus arty submunitions.
I think we aren't seeing them used everywhere because there isn't APS everywhere, when it gets more common we'll see more weapons designed to exploit APSs weaknesses.
Anonymous No.64378553 [Report]
>>64378546
>It's been used in the BLU-108
thats not a missile, thats part of a cluster bomb
missile in this context is an ATGM, of which the only widely used one is the TOW, which uses the EFP as a way to bypass enemy armor
no current or future ATGM uses EFPs, most are tandem warhead instead

> when it gets more common we'll see more weapons designed to exploit APSs weaknesses.
the only projectiles specifically designed to defeat APS are ones that attempt to exploit its reload time rather than trying to detonate outside its effective radius
to varying results, since the israelis claim that their new APS can defeat these decoy rounds anyways

but APS has to detonate targets several meters away from the tank already, so EFP wouldnt radically alter the efficacy of APS
Anonymous No.64378564 [Report]
It may be possible to loosen the HEAT concentration to achieve a more hammer-like destructive effect than an arrow, but it is unlikely to match the performance of a classic artillery shell in destroying buildings.
Anonymous No.64378569 [Report]
Fuck off chink
Anonymous No.64378621 [Report] >>64378626
>>64377017 (OP)
that tin can will last about 3 minutes on a modern battlefield
Anonymous No.64378626 [Report]
>>64378621
what are you comparing it to?
Anonymous No.64378648 [Report] >>64378671
>>64377017 (OP)
Definitely. Personally I'd like to see some form of NLOS missiles with man in the loop TV guidance that can be data linked to the target from drones
Imagine a missiles carrier truck with fucking idk 30 missiles that can be simply stationed in a safe place and then controlled remotely
Anonymous No.64378671 [Report]
>>64378648
>Personally I'd like to see some form of NLOS missiles with man in the loop TV guidance that can be data linked to the target from drones
That kind of vehicle would be a supplement to MBTs, not a replacement
Since you need a heavily armored vehicle to exploit the breached defenses afterwards
Anonymous No.64378673 [Report] >>64378690
>what is aps
Anonymous No.64378690 [Report] >>64378698 >>64379561
>>64378673
APS is extremely fragile and easy to overwhelm which is why Russians have stripped off the Arena APS from most of their tanks that had it.
>oh but western tech is better
It's unproven on the battlefield
>oh but merkavas
Only ever worked on RPG-7s shot from far away, in CQC it shat the bed.
Anonymous No.64378698 [Report]
>>64378690
>It's unproven on the battlefield
It is proven, what are you on about?

>Only ever worked on RPG-7s shot from far away, in CQC it shat the bed.
Thats just lying, trophy is incredibly well proven from multiple angles and against ATGMs
Anonymous No.64378720 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
No. They've been around since the mid 80s and haven't come anywhere near replacing tanks.
Anonymous No.64378890 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
Basically everyone has been trying for a while now. Vid related at the bottom is an example the Brits were playing around with in the early 60's. Keeping it supplied with ammunition would be a problem for most armies outside of a 'total mobilisation' scenario, and there just isn't much room for heavily armoured tank destroyers in a modern army.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUBih8GFtfc
Anonymous No.64378941 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
The Germans tried something like this and the consensus is that shoving your vehicle with as much explosives as a dedicated artillery platform makes it inversely less survivable in the quarters tanks usually fight in, even all-else equal.
Anonymous No.64379076 [Report]
>>64377028
God imagine a modern Otomatic with VULCANO
Anonymous No.64379251 [Report] >>64380902
>>64377031
Or ... battleships again
Modern ships are pathetic at gunfire/armour. Literally any WW1 (let alone WW2) battleship wins by default if it gets in gun range of any modern surface ship.
So: the only problem a battleship needs to solve is getting in range without being blown up by cringe weapons like drones and missiles. Solution: speed, armour, more speed, and active defence.
Modern ships are tiny and high power. i.e. massively inefficient, because all that power is powering a short hull that runs up against its wave limit speed quickly. That's why the Iowa class museums are still faster than modern fleets, if only just. (33 knots) You need your new battleship to be able to catch anything, even big aircraft carriers though, so it has to be longer and faster still.
The length comes with weight, and you need so much structual strength that thick armour over the keel and deck designs itself. With just steel, you proof the ship against anything except hypersonic missiles, shaped charges and nukes. A layer of ceramic (spaced generously) takes care of shaped charges. Active defences help against everything, now with the bonus of massive power (you need it anyway for all the speed) and the ability to focus fire only on the few munitions that the ship can't simply facetank.
It may even be possible to facetank a hypersonic, though this kind of protection (~20 ft of RHA) is practical only over very small spaces, perhaps just the magazines. Nukes ... well a direct hit fucks anything. A near miss however, is quite survivable for old WW1/WW2 ships with armour that looks puny by comparison to what I'm designing.
Note that drones are just shitty, slow missiles and can be shot down with lasers, or just ignored.

If you happen to be a procurement officer at any major navy (except the Chinese, Indian or Indonesian fleets) come hire this schizo off the internet to redeem your very own SS Freudian Nightmare
Anonymous No.64379391 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
>Are NLOS missiles and loitering munitions going carriers to replace tanks
An ATGM or loitering munition can't replace direct fire from a 120mm. Jesus christ you guys are so fucking retarded,
Anonymous No.64379416 [Report] >>64379507
>>64377017 (OP)
They won't replace tanks but instead make the concept of a tank destroyer come back. An IFV hull loaded up with 16 hellfires/brimstones/pingpong big-dong missiles could be concealed easily and do the job of an attack helicopter without the fear of omnipresent MANPADS
Anonymous No.64379507 [Report]
>>64379416
The main remaining trouble is staying power. We've yet to work out a good way to reload ATGM carriers in the field, and while a helicopter can just take a quick nip off back to base a ground vehicle generally can't.
Anonymous No.64379539 [Report] >>64379555
Realistically, how many missiles is an ATGM carrier going to fire before it gets destroyed anyway. There aren't going to be a lot firing off 16 missiles other than some exceptional ambush scenario
Anonymous No.64379553 [Report]
>>64377106
Most countries with a large manufacturing base could. USA, Korea, Japan, Germany etc. Probably even countries like Thailand, Mexico, Vietnam, and the like if they actually directed industry to focus on that too.
Anonymous No.64379555 [Report]
>>64379539
I know that it's inconceivable for a russian that an armored vehicle might not explode from getting withing 10 km of the frontlines, but white people can protect critical assets from quadcopters. Magazine depth is a good thing
Anonymous No.64379561 [Report]
>>64378690
>APS is extremely fragile and easy to overwhelm which is why Russians have stripped off the Arena APS from most of their tanks that had it.

Russia can't mass produce it because it's a toilet paper tiger with little domestic tech manufacturing abilities

>It's unproven on the battlefield
Fake and gay

>Only ever worked on RPG-7s shot from far away, in CQC it shat the bed.

Merkava APS has intercepted rockets a multitude of times. Keep coping vatnigger
Anonymous No.64379588 [Report] >>64379705 >>64379744
What does /k/ think of smart missile/drone mines?
>Dug in vertical box that can launch a single (or maybe more) flying objects
>Gets targetting coordinates and launch command from remote
>Can sit in the air for a lengthy period, basically undetectable
Place them in border regions where the enemy is likely to invade. So long as you can reach it with radio and provide it with a target, it can destroy stuff. Possibly even well after the area has been taken over by the enemy.
Anonymous No.64379596 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
I think they'll make entirely new vehicle role for a close proximity missile support wagon
Anonymous No.64379631 [Report] >>64379693
Tbh I don't think future vehicles will be clear cut missile carriers or gun vehicles or something. A drone carrier still needs an anti-drone autocannon and a dedicated direct fire gun vehicle can still benefit from carrying a missile or two. Not all eggs in one basket and all that.
Anonymous No.64379651 [Report] >>64379738
>>64377017 (OP)
the main job of a tank is not destroying other tanks
Anonymous No.64379678 [Report]
>>64377028
I was just thinking about reintroducing the otomatic on the modern battlefield, armed both with 155mm artillery shells as well as with high-velocity subcaliber proximity fuze anti-air munitions
Anonymous No.64379693 [Report] >>64380897
>>64379631
my reasoning for having a separate missile carrier would be that their role is somewhat analogous to SPAAGs, they follow the main armored thrust, ready to respond within seconds to new threats instead of minutes it takes for long-range artillery strike to land
Anonymous No.64379705 [Report] >>64379716
>>64379588
now tell me how is it any better than a HIMARS battery getting flown in with 4 GMLRS-ER boxes and blowing the advance up with 48 tungsten rain missiles?
Anonymous No.64379716 [Report] >>64379722
>>64379705
himars is extremely vulnerable to gps jamming
Anonymous No.64379722 [Report] >>64379735
>>64379716
and your remote missiles are vulnerable to regular jamming AND gps jamming, try again
Anonymous No.64379735 [Report] >>64379744
>>64379722
can't jam wire guidance
Anonymous No.64379738 [Report]
>>64379651
why?
Anonymous No.64379744 [Report] >>64379748
>>64379735
read your own post again nigger >>64379588
>So long as you can reach it with radio and provide it with a target
you can't do that if your enemy has jammers in the area in the first place
Anonymous No.64379748 [Report] >>64379827
>>64379744
there are more than 2 people present here
Anonymous No.64379827 [Report]
>>64379748
Mfw called a nigger for something I didn't do

Anyway, the advantage over longer range rockets is that the missile is cheaper. Communication could be handled with directed radio or laserlink, possibly even from satellites. Plus the bandwidth requirements would be extremely low, basically just a launch command and target coordinates.
Anonymous No.64380863 [Report]
>>64377017 (OP)
So, how's the missile gonna get (up and then down) through branches and shit, where a basic tungsten rod can just go straight below and through them?
Anonymous No.64380897 [Report]
>>64379693
Nevah been dun befoah
Anonymous No.64380902 [Report]
>>64379251
>if it gets in gun range of any modern surface ship.
Haha, yeah, about that....