Thread 64380513

How far can we continue to upgrade the M60?

>>64380513 (OP)
Ironically, given that even heavily armored more modern tanks also get btfod by drones, older, cheaper tank chassis that are also lighter might be the way forward. Just upgrade the engines, guns and electronics.

>>64380513 (OP)
Do the Turks upgrade/refurbish the bodies themselves or just the turrets? Feels like their upgrades should just make new bodies and call it a new tank at this point

>>64382044
Modern armor is modular so it makes little difference. Having an old hull is obviously sub-optimal for modern packages (the hull of the M60 was designed to be more future proof than any previous US tank) but it saves a lot of time, tank design is a PITA with a lot of details causing delays.
People modernizing old tanks are doing it for that well established "design standard" regardless of the country.

>>64382016
Armor is cheap. Upgraded engines, guns, and electronics are the expensive parts.

>>64382016
>why spend all the money on a new car? just pay to put a 2025 engine in a 1970 automobile. That should be cheaper

>>64380513 (OP)
Well look at how much we upgraded the knife

>>64382115
Sometimes it is, yes

>>64380513 (OP)
Probably forever, but always just a small step behind.

>>64382115
I literally just put in a new zero mile engine in my car that had 300,000 miles on it because I don't like newerr cars and it was still cheaper than buying a new similar vehicle.

>>64382016
no it isnt, its more expensive to overhaul an old tank to modern standards than it is to build a new tank entirely
the main reason for these deep-modernizations is because the people making these is because they lack an industrial base to build new tanks in the first place

> Just upgrade the engines, guns and electronics.
you need bare minimum RPG-7 protection, which requires 400+ RHAe equivelant of armor, which is why the M60A3 modernizations have armor modules on the turret
but if they had the choice they would have added it to the hull as well

>>64382016
The Abrams is the only tank currently in service which has proper segregation of the ammo from the fighting compartment at all times except when loading. Even the Challenger or Leopard II are more likely to get the crew killed, the M60 would effectively be as much of a deathtrap as the Soviet tanks, though you wouldn't get launched into orbit. The issue is that I don't think any of the piggers who crewed and Abrams died from the tank getting knocked out, so they can crew another tank tomorrow while thousands of ziggers have become improvised cosmonauts and will not be crewing anything unless they go to that circle of Hell which is constant warfare, lucky bastards.

>>64382280
>I'm from The South
Not really an option if you live someplace with snow, the salt will eat the body alive.

>>64383981
>Leopard II
The thing with thinner armor than a Panzer IV?

>>64382776
Honestly I'm more curious as to what performance specs you could get out of a full strip down and overhaul using completely modern parts without regard to cost. Like those car modders who take an old chassis and replace the internals with the most powerful modern shit they can fit.

>>64382776
>its more expensive to overhaul an old tank to modern standards than it is to build a new tank entirely
>lack an industrial base to build new tanks in the first place

So it is expensive to overhaul old tanks but people cant actually build new tanks to begin with in a timely manner to matter due to lack of industrial capability. Really makes you think does it not?
>A fuck we need the ability to shit out tanks in the thousands to fight if the cold war goes hot.
>*cold war ends
>bro we dont need to build any new tanks we got like a million of them in storage and who are we gona fight? The world is at eternal peace
>*shut down tank plants because of eternal peace in the world
>*skilled workers from tank plants find new jobs
>........
>what do you mean we lost the ability to produce new tanks?

>>64384203
Yes, why do you think the US spends so much money producing new tanks it doesn't need, upgrading its tank fleet, and constantly refurbishing units on a regular basis?

M60 chassis used as bridge tank

>>64382016
main defect of armor, not just tanks, today is they are completely defenseless against air attacks. by even cheap quadcopters suiciding simple mortar rounds on them. in this context there is no difference how new or modern of old the said vehicle is

the answer is having hard kill hardpoints mounted like point defense systems. that are cheap enough to mass produce and swat out of the sky basic small drone attacks. for larger swarms dedicated platforms are needed in the columns like the new microwave fryer developed in US

>>64387376
the armor is there to protect against KE threats and handheld rockets
so even with hard-kill APS you still want as much armor as possible
the ukranians consider 6x6 vehicles to be useless on the frontlines because they can get shredded by artillery

>>64384121
?

>>64383987
>>I'm from The South

Never acuse me me of being southern again, you double nigger

>>64383987
Not every place salts the road even when it snows, and not every manufacturer cheaps out on rust prevention.

>>64387613
>sad Dixie sounds

>>64383981
In addition to that, there's a better chance of the vehicle being recoverable and repairable or at least torn down for parts if the turrent and chassis are still in the same postcode.

>>64387690
>Turrent
How the fuck did I do that. The N isn't anywhere near E or T.

>>64384121
That's the Leo 1. Leo 2 is better armoured.

>>64380513 (OP)
until the power requirements of active protection systems renders the engine bay too small for modern engines

>>64380513 (OP)

step 1:

Every single tank can benefit from the same series of upgrades:

Blade batteries as spaced armor: change the drive sprocket, and road wheels to structural pancake axial motors. The engine is now a dedicated generator, all transmission components are gone, the tank is the same weight as it was before but more survivable and with greater endurance.

>>64380513 (OP)
As long as gun-armed tracked vehicles remain relevant in war, the M60 will never really be obsolete. Almost all the advances in military vehicle tech over the last 50 years have been electronics, ammo, and active protection, and all that can be retrofitted into an older chassis just fine.

The only real threat to the future of the M60 would be a major shift in what a combat vehicle looks like. If the paradigm shifts from a turreted gun to a module of VLS cells, then it's over for the M60. Likewise, if we shift to railguns/plasma cannons/whatever, it's over for M60, since it couldn't power an electricity-hungry weapon.

>>64390078
>just fine.
no, its quite hard to upgrade old vehicles to modern standards
the only reason you would want to do it is if you cant make a new hull at all but have a ton of old ones lying around

>>64382016
>You see because Russia sucks at using X all X is now useless!

Retarded pale N*ggers not using equipment correctly doesn't mean said equipment is obsolete.

>>64380513 (OP)
Indefinitely it seems. The new version of the AVDS makes 1500hp and is actually more reliable still than many moder power packs. The hull and suspension easily accept more weight and modifications. The Americans Turks, Ukrainians, Italians and the Belgians have all proposed new turrets for it. Turkey can actually still fabricate new hulls if they actually want to. They bought the casting equipment for it so they could build whole new sections if need be. No idea if they maintain it though. You can also just straight up modify it into a pseudo-Abrams too. It was proposed for Egypt but shelved. Brazil is debating replacing their old M60s with Abrams and I personally think it would make more sense to just give them this upgrade.

>>64393724
Nah Brazil needs the 1A6 package for the Leo 1s

>>64380513 (OP)
Unmanned
No turret
Every last inch of usable space filled with mini VLS cells for launching loitering munitions.

>>64383987
I drive a car that's spent 20 years in a climate with harsh winters and salted roads. There isn't a speck of rust on the body because it was designed by a bunch of swedes who knew that would be a problem.

>>64387376
literally just glue these to the top

>>64380513 (OP)
until it becomes an M60-2000

The turret makes the tank.

>>64396529
They Leopards are getting replaced by a tank in the 40-50 ton range and paired with new IFVs. Most likely the Leopard hulls will be converted into AA and indirect fire vehicles.

>>64380513 (OP)
The Turks really must have some Ionian Greek genes because this is the Tank of Theseus at this point.

>>64397885
crossout