Thread 64410719

7.92×57mm Mauser and 6.5×55mm Swedish should've been the NATO standards instead of 7.62mm and 5.56mm and you can't get me off this boat.

>>64410719 (OP)
No I fully agree, 8x57 is a sexy beast of a cartridge. It just has the right ratio of everything to everything else and the right lines in the right places

>>64410719 (OP)
No. 7.62x51mm and 5.56mm are objectively perfect rounds.

>>64410719 (OP)
7.62 is already good but 5.56 is a wet fart past 200 meters. IMO 5.56 should've never been a thing.

XM7 should be in 6.5 swede for the lulz

>>64410762
Because you objectively don't think at all and just accept what's cheap as the best. Meanwhile 5.56 is shit at doing anything but general infantry combat and blasting varmints (yes southern deer are varmints too, fuckers are barely bigger than a doberman)

>>64410826
>5.56 is shit at doing anything but general infantry combat
The fuck do you think it's used for?

>>64410836
Well seeing as people tout it as the greatest round for everything, I assume everything from plinking to extreme marriage counseling

>>64410719 (OP)
I don't need to get you off the boat, I can just sink it instead.

>>64410762
Correct.

>>64410826
Am I missing something here? What do you think 5.56mm gets issued for in NATO and other armies?

>>64410773
Spotted the no guns.

>>64410719 (OP)
>7.92×57mm Mauser
Nah, 8x63

>>64410719 (OP)
>>64410971

Agree with OP but instead of 7.92 Mauser it should have been 7.5×55mm Swiss
that and 6.5 Swede

>>64410826
>5.56 is shit at doing anything but general infantry combat
k

>>64411009
With two cartridges with such close dimensions i just know some retard would load the wrong one.

>>64410719 (OP)
6.5 swede is still too big and heavy and high recoiling compared to 5.56 to be competitive at the things it does. Literally all 5.56 needs is a slightly higher bc maybe 90-110 grain max bullet going the same speed. 77 grain smks are almost good enuff

>>64410719 (OP)
No, they're both too big and they do essentially the same job.

7mm-08 or 260rem + 5.56.

>>64410760
I thought I was the only one who thought this, lol. 8.6 blackout is also one of those very handsome cartridges.

Anyway, counterpoint to the 6.5xwhateverthefuck. Picrel, the final form of the intermediate cartridge. We blundered hard by passing this up.

>>64411057
>7mm-08
>260rem
I can also get on board with this anon

The real answer of course is FN IWS .264 >>64326816

6.5 Grendel, 7mm-08, and .260 Remington are each superb and awesome cartridges for all-purpose non military use

>>64410719 (OP)
6.5 swede and 4.6 hk

>>64410719 (OP)
Literally all you need is 9mm, 556, and 12g

>>64410719 (OP)
what the FUCK is that gibberish on the box? fucking germans man

>>64411119
>556
Boogtard larp varmint round
>12g
Aryan gauge used by olympians

>>64410719 (OP)
No, 7.65x53.5mm Mauser should have been the NATO standard.

>>64411192
Go fuck yourself. You can pick literally any other Mauser cartridge and have a correct answer.

7mm, 8mm, 6.5x55, all are top tier rifle rounds. Get that shit out of here.

>>64411122
>Boogtard larp varmint round
Gtfoh. If it was good enough for Rittenhouse, it's good for everyone!

>>64411203
What's wrong with 7.65 fookin argie? I have fond memory of my argie carbine as a kid, couldn't be that bad of a round

>>64411218
Nothing, I just want to talk shit.

>>64411216
Communists are varmints, it's useless against any other kind of person. Yes, somehow Afghans are people (probably because they kill commies)

>>64411220
Ah I see, carry on then fagzilla. Also 8 is a total meme, 7 shits on it hard but German brass was gay and retarded

>>64411226
honestly true but then you run into the problem of 7 does nothing at all that 6.5 can't do better, so as always 6.5x55 is the supreme rifle cartridge which it has taken a century for the rest of the world to catch up with. And once you correct narrow down 6.5 as the best, 8mm provides some benefit to handloading because you can crank it up to retard pressure and have ghetto 300 winmag for removing extra large jews.

>>64410762
Digits check out. Objectively correct

>>64411241
>mein gott hanz, you see that scheiße?
>Der juden have ein giga juden
>8 meters tall and able to bench over 109 kilos
>should we tell command about this?
>nein, get the extra strength 8mm Wilhelm. We'll solve this like men

>>64410719 (OP)
8 Mauser and 6.5 Nip (unrimmed). My mind will not be changed.

>>64410773
Most small arms engagements occur within 200m. Plenty of hadjis got popped in the dome at 200m or beyond. No state military wears face plates. We’re also now in the drone warfare epoch. Machine gun emplacements are completely obsolete.

>>64411009
This is imperial Japanese logistics tier

What the FUCK is a millimeter?

.30 caliber supremacy unchallenged for 135 years straight.

>>64410719 (OP)
>"NATO should have adopted two full-power cartridges with identical purposes and two different bolt faces"
You're nostalgic for lost causes and retarded. Both of those cartridges are functionally identical to each other AND 30-06. But 30-06 is common where you are, and 8mm/6.5Swe aren't, so you pretend to like them for reasons other than they're uncommon.

>>64411192
>No, 7.65x53.5mm Mauser should have been the NATO standard.
It basically is. There is nothing more similar to .308 than 7.65Arg.

Kind of funny how literally the first modern cartridge is ballistically identical to .308.

>>64410762
>762
bros..

>>64410719 (OP)
Why? What’s the big difference between 7.92 Mauser and 7.62 NATO?

>>64410719 (OP)
I thought the Swedish and Italian approach of a 6.5mm cartridge for rifles, and a heavier 8mm cartridge for machine guns was pretty smart.

>>64410760
With those heavy ball loads, it's one of the best machine gun cartridges.

>>64411403
Nothing. Both lose wars.

>>64410719 (OP)
You mean both 9.3x62 mauser and 6.5x57 mauser should have been made the NATO standard

>>64411267
>>64411285
7.7 Arisaka, and 6.5 SR Arisaka
kings of WWII rifle cartridges

>>64411115
6.5 Grendel and 4.6×30mm HK

>>64410826
>556 is shit at doing anything but general infantry combat
How many times did your mother drop you on your head as a child?

>>64411332
>There is nothing more similar to .308 than 7.65Arg.
Pretty sure that was the joke.

>>64410719 (OP)
Meet in the middle. 7mm Mouser is nearly perfect.

>>64410719 (OP)
Based 6.5x55

>>64410719 (OP)
>6.5×55mm Swedish
Ah yes, the round SO good and SO forward looking, replaced by 7.62 because it was a weak cartridge unsuitable for GPMG use.
7.92 in the German heavy ball loading, however, is objectively superior to 7.62, supersonic for longer

>>64412623
7.65x53 owner here, they're within about 2% of each other, they are essentially the same as far as downrange is concerned

>>64413479
>the 10ish grain heavier boolit with the lower BC, the lower SD make 7.62 FAGO the better round, goyim. Adopt it, do not put post WW2 charges into the 55mm case and bump it up another 200fps at still modest pressure.

>>64411069
FABRL research made excellent bullet shapes but its entire premise was flawed.
>lets make light bullet for better auto fire control
>okkkay?
>but let it male 5.56mm caliber instead of 4.5mm because... because... because we hate sectional density or something

>>64413479
>7.62 with 0.200 G7 BC is better than 6.5mm with 0.270 G7 BC because ... because ... because burgers hell yeah!

>>64413579
6.5 ice-picks. Sorry to burst your bubble. Maybe ask people of the numerous nations (all of them) who abandoned their 6.5 cartridges in favor of something bigger, even prior to 7.62x51

>>64413600
Higher SD with a bullet that has superior BC and can be designed to tumble or fragment, at your need, is the better choice. "6.5 ice-picks" is not a soley, or even mostly, a function of weight or diameter. Fucking newfags on /k/ that don't even know basic ballistics.

>>64413628
Have fun with your stats, reality doesn't take place on paper. Again, why was your sacred cow replaced by a larger bullet by literally everyone who adopted it?

>>64413640
>bullet design is hokus-pokus
>military procurement is based on performance

>>64413600
>7.62 ice-picks. Sorry to burst your bubble.


>Maybe ask people of the numerous nations (all of them) who abandoned their 6.5 cartridges in favor of something bigger, even prior to 7.62x51
You mean ask schizo babbling boomers who know nothing and who adopted 7.62x51 that sucks donkey dick vs 6.5x55.
>but 7.62 is larger than 6.5! Aha!

>>64413640
>muh 7.6... *angry boomer noises*

>>64410826
The math got mathed out a long time ago, and especially 5.56 got balanced really well. So much so that it even outperforms its .223 parent cartridge, despite the .223 seemingly slightly edging it out on paper.
That's one of the main reason why all the wildcat exotic stuff all tries to build on the 5.56. and skew the performance towards the low velocity, expanding/silenced meatgrinders.

You can theoretically fuck around and pump the 5.56 up to be closer to the 7.62, but all of the changes will eat away at barrel life, magazine capacity, carry capacity, and you'll need to rebuild the entire assault/SMG stock of the entire planet......from 0.
So nah.

Maybe, MAYBE you can get some tactical advantage with 1 or 2 guys in a squad having an unusually beefy 5.56 derivative purely for shock value to surprise an enemy that calculates for lower performance to break a stalemate.

>>64413673
It's just 6.5 creedmoor

>>64413883
Aka short and weak version of teh 6.5x55

>muh recoil
don't allow midgets in the us army

>>64413862
The 2 real improvements you can make on 5.56 without making the usual sacrifices associated with them are to cut the case shorter - elongating the bullet ogive - and up the pressure to 80k. higher muzzle energy with better energy retention at all ranges. Much better performance at 300yds with zero weight or volume penalty. And if that’s not needed, well do it anyways and then scale the resulting cartridge down until you’ve duplicated the performance of 5.56, but now in a smaller and lighter package. And if that doesn’t matter either, then small arms chambering is irrelevant and we should instead concern ourselves with drones or whatever. Give everyone a PDW instead of a rifle, and a backpack full of drones.

>>64410719 (OP)
They both have excessive case length, which 7.62x51mm improved upon. I think a better argument could be made for 6.5mm Creedmoor since it is mimicking 6.5 Swede performance in a short action case, but obviously it didn't exist yet at the time. Certainly looking to 6.5 Swedish for inspiration would have been a good idea in hindsight, but then again it might not have had adequate penetration to make a good GPMG cartridge. Swedes used it anyway, but they remained neutral throughout the time their cartridge was in service so it is hard to evaluate in real terms against more combat proven alternatives.

>>64413654
All solid rifle rounds will mostly just punch a hole right through you.
Shit like soft-points, hollow points, etc are illegal to use in war, so everyone icepicks each other to death.
A 7mm hole through a major organ kills you dead as much as fragments going through your torso.

>>64415240
Bring back 6.5 Jap instead