Thread 64443067

>P90 frt on it's way edition
Yep you read that right we have developed a 3 position trigger for the PS90 platform. We are 97% completed with it just making a few fine tuning adjustments and a little bit more R&D with it before we will feel comfortable releasing it out in the world. We planned on having their release on the same day as a surprise but after thinking it through we think it would be wise to hold off on the release just until we get our bearings straight with the Vector launch. Not too much at one time. After all we are only 2 people doing it all by ourselves other than the manufacturing. \
https://wickedarmsinnovation.blogspot.com/


Is it legal? Yes, unless you live in a cucked state
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/rare-breed-triggers’-frt-15s-and-wide-open-triggers-wots-return

Distributors:
https://www.activesafetydesigns.com
https://atrius.dev
https://deeznutztactical.com
https://www.deltateamtactical.com
https://www.fittyactual.com
https://greymarketresearch.net
https://hoffmantactical.com
https://rarebreedtriggers.com
https://redactedarmsllc.com
https://www.tacswap.com
https://freedomfingertriggers.com/
https://arizonaregulator.com/

You've heard of FRTs, but what's a "super safety"?
>like an FRT, but a different mechanism (the safety)
>cheaper than an FRT
>$90-$120 for full drop-in kit
>3D printable or CNC (recommend stainless/4140)
>most are 3 position cross-bolt safety
>left is safe, right is semi, middle is fully semi-automic

How it works:
https://youtu.be/KIxsnh2fFTo

To make an AR-15 super safe you'll need:
>M16 style/"full auto" bolt carrier group
>H3 or H2 buffer weight (will do 600-750 rpm of 5.56)
>"low shelf" lower receiver
>SS
>any AR trigger so long as you give it an SS cut

Previous: >>64416735

Is there an FRT for the Uzis yet?

What was the site with the 10/22 Super Safety? Was a bent carbon fiber piece shaped like an L.

so other than most ammo prices being crap, is this pretty much the golden age of firearms ownership?
>can get a reliable super safe AR with a good optic for less than 1000 dollars

>>64443248
The NFA, GCA, and 922r has done a lot of damage which still needs mending, but things are definitely looking up.

Fuuuck. Do I want an AUG, or PS90 now... I hope the PS90 doesn't require and sort of modification like the stock does. I guess im getting another SBR next year.

>>64443367
the NFA is the single worst thing to ever happen to gun ownership ever

>>64443419
is there an AUG FRT?

>>64443537
Yes, but they're almost $500 I think and require some sort of drilling into the stock.

>>64443067 (OP)
>Yep you read that right we have developed a 3 position trigger for the PS90 platform
FINALLY!

Would it be possible to develop an FRT for something like an old Broomhandle? They'd probably be an extra fun shooter that way.
Like this Oyster Bay mixed parts rebuild in 9mm, with the extended mag and stock, it would be a total hoot to plink with.

>>64443816
All FRT/SS are fundamentally the same thing: a trip that pushes the trigger to the un-pulled position after a round is chambered

>>64443818
You think it could fit inside the Mauser's jumbled fire controls?

How necessary is an H3 or H2 buffer when shooting Super Safe? Will standard carbine buffer result in OOB?

>>64443845
It will start to misfire or fail to eject. Eventually can fuck up your buffer and gas. Imagine it like putting too small of a timing belt in your engine, it may work for awhile but eventually it's going to fall out of rhythm and unable to keep up.

>>64443836
I have no idea. But that's where it starts.
A lot of super safeties for non-AR rifles require a lower that takes an AR15 FCG though, if that tells you anything.

>>64443067 (OP)
REminds me of that Minecraft character "there's some things that should be erased"

The LAD concept would have been more cost effective.

>>64444087
Cased telescoped ammunition would solve the SAW/LMG problem. Intermediate rifle cartridges with the same OAL as PDW cartridges, very lightweight, and it can't cook off so it can be closed bolt. An HK21 in a CT or even any metallic head polymer case cartridge would be the ideal SAW. Alas...

>>64443067 (OP)
Hoffman made a 3D printed lower with a pouch dovetail for the Lima6.

>>64446051
This is cool as hell but at the same time I think belt feds are expensive and silly memes

>>64446077
It's the closest I will ever get to fulfilling my M240 gunner fantasies. It's not too bad at 40 cpr for steel case, certainly better than a drinking habit, slightly worse than NODs.

>>64446155
Hopefully in time companies are able to increase production and lower prices. I'm really just not a fan of the belts themselves

>>64443202
FRT's are generally harder to pull off for straight blowback - the design team behind the CZ Scorpion Evo hit major snags, most strongly recommend delayed AR PCC's instead of blowbacks for FRT's. This leaves the Vz61 and the MAC-10/11 which are SS compatible with a printed lower taking an AR trigger - they need a fair bit of tuning compared to other platforms.
And no the PS90 isn't straight blowback

So currently, what's the absolute best frt that's the closest to the real thing? Also I heard if you hold the trigger really hard (so like on the real thing) it malfunctions? That'd be a huge issue

>>64447167
>Also I heard if you hold the trigger really hard (so like on the real thing) it malfunctions?
yes, it's not full auto. Pinning the trigger to the rear and it continues to work would make it a fully automatic machine gun.

Are AKs FRTs still a meme?
>>64447251
What's the point then, if you can't hold it down.

>>64447405
>What's the point then, if you can't hold it down.
That's it's not a machine gun.

>>64447416
But i;ll malfunctions if you ever hold it down in any real situation

>>64447422
You understand that the whole point of a force reset trigger is to force the reset, right? Each shot you take is a pull of the trigger. Ergo, it's not a machine gun.

>>64447422
then maybe use something else for a "real situation".

>>64446987
>And no the PS90 isn't straight blowback
It isn't?

>>64447441
no, the barrel moves back a tiny bit while firing.

>>64447405
>if you can't hold it down
It's essentially like Bump Stocks, you just maintain rearward pressure with your finger, and that will essentially make you pull the trigger at cyclic rate.

It's not literally full-auto (therefore still unregulated), but it feels just about the same, and it's way smoother than it sounds. It's so smooth and steady that you actually need to account for action timing, basically like with a real auto trip, hence why people are working on developing these for various different guns.

>>64447422
Why?

does anyone have a second party mfg of these or have a second one to sell?

these homos decided to discontinue the party early

>>64447478
>Why?
>>64447422

>>64447525
You haven't given a reason as to why.

>>64443067 (OP)
How critical are anti-walk pins for using an ss? I don't think my standard pins are loose at all, but then again I've never tried them with an ss.

>>64447955
I always put them in mine, and some SS sellers sell anti-walk, but if they arent falling out for you, dont change

>>64447480
It's because of the ATF. They're gonna be out of stock for another few n months at least.

>>64447955
I dont have anti walk pins and my trigger pins came out after shooting a few mags

>>64447441
>>64447438
Elaborate? Ive replaced the barrel on my ps90 myself and its just clamped down directly to the receiver with the muzzle and the bolt is just a block of metal sliding on rails. It's got that anti-bounce weight sliding thing but that's it. Are you conflating of the Five-seven or something?

>>64447955
If you plan on shooting a lot with an FRT, I imagine that anti-walk pins would actually be worth it, you're basically using your own finger as an auto-trip, so when you get the hang of using it, it's functionally the same as a full-auto salvo in terms of recoil and vibrations.

Anyone made a belt-fed 9mm upper which uses non-disintegrating belts yet? I feel this would be a good sort of setup for making a really fun ratatatatat-tat range toy with an FRT. I would also accept a lower which uses Finnish 72rd drums, but I've never ever seen such a thing, so I assume that isn't a product.

>>64447480
They submitted the 2 pos prototype and non-selector frt to the ATF.
The 2 position looks like a glock switch and the ATF deal with rare Sneed had them agree not to make pistol FRT's.
It seems like an elaborate ploy to avoid a lawsuit from RB while also cementing the legality of conventional pistol FRT's - with the danger of the ATF saying no not allowed

>>64447441
Technically it's barrel delayed blowback, but not full recoil operated as recoil operated firearms also have reciprocating barrels
The bolt drags the barrel rearward slightly before unlocking, slowing down lock time Once the barrel is at the end of its travel the bolt unlocks and moves fully rearward.
Unlike recoil operation the barrel and bolt are only mated at the highest pressure/impulse and barrel travel is a mere few millimeters

>>64448988
The outer section of the barrel on the PS90 is actually a barrel shroud, the inner barrel sits inside the shroud. If you did the install the barrel sits within a recoil spring and is supposed to have some back and forth play tldr you crank it to 30ft/lbs to the reciever then back off ~1/4in. It's not dissimilar to headspacing a recoil operated MG like an older M2 .50
If you just cranked it on full blast to where the barrel doesnt move you likely damaged the gun/barrel
- turned it straight blowback
-reduced reliability
-increasing felt recoil
That's kind of the downside with barrel delaying desu

>>64448988
10/10 chance you installed your barrel incorrectly its supposed to have a few mm's of play back and forth.
Considering you turned your gun straight blowback I would rectify the issue before you even consider a FRT - replace the springs too

>>64443248
Ammo prices adjusted for inflation are cheaper than they were 10 years ago.

>>64449317
sadly no one's income has been adjusted for inflation

>>64449331
Yet, my increases exceed double what I made 10 yo. So...

All current designs of firearms require that each live round moves over twice it's length to be chambered then the spent cartridge moves over twice the length of the live round to be extracted and ejected.
THIS limits firing rates, overall mechanism length, and so firearm size and mass.
It should be possible to make a squad support weapon capable of 10x the speed while being half the length of current designs, with higher accuracy due to constant recoil and fewer off-bore moving parts.
Mericans will never figure it out and not be making the next major step in firearm design.
It's just not in them to be imaginative.
All their designs, like all american art, are just so derivative.

>>64449360
They already have, the government just doesn't want it for some reason, probably because of the shitty mentality that you mentioned. See >>64444313
Telescoped ammunition has no separate ejection cycle, it's part of the one-way feeding process. Caseless takes it a step further, but isn't as well-suited to machine guns.
It's infuriating that this technology has existed for half a century now but the government still won't buy it. I think there's a Reformer-esque mafia that actively blocks firearms innovation, the same people who sabotaged the M16 and no doubt the SPIW and ACR programs.

>>64449317
im an AK enjoyer though so yeah a lot of my personal ammo prices have become abyssmal dogshit

>>64447552
The gun literally ceases to function if you pull the trigger too hard. Something that never happens with smi-auto?

>>64449954
Actually, if you hold a semi-auto trigger all the way back, it stops firing after one round. This is the same thing that happens with an FRT. It doesn't break the normal unmodified function of the gun. It just shoots like a not-FRT gun if you use it wrong. You either get assisted rapid fire or normal semiauto.

>>64450102
Man you're a loser.

>>64449954
It isn't an insurmountable task to get it going again or to simply not death grip your trigger on a pull. Go do USPSA or 2/3 gun and see how easy it is to just not be a retard on the trigger under some level of stress.

>>64449954
bro how about you use an FRT for yourself. I've never had any issue pulling it too hard.

>>64450293
Bro I'm literally asking if the thing works before dropping $500 on it, you good?

>>64450310
in reality if you pin it to the rear, the trigger wouldnt reset until you loosen your finger, that's it. You would need a very strong mechanism to overcome your finger to push it off while you hold it down and as a result would probably be annoying trigger slap.

That being said according to this video, the FRT15 might work but ymmv

https://youtu.be/oB5pNoPpgwg?t=348

>>64450143
He's right though, just pull the trigger again.

>>64449563
it serves no useful purpose other than appeasing autists
gun design has pretty much plateaued since 1945
everything since has just been mixing and matching operating, locking, and feeding systems that already existed

>>64450310
If you dont want to spend that much, there are much cheaper alternatives. Look through the links in the OP

>>64449331
>>64449317
>Ammo prices
about to buy 5.7 ammo in anticipation of the frt coming soon

>>64443202
Due to the way they are designed I think this is going to be extremely difficult to do without adding new holes.
I think you could make it work by adding another lever somewhere to be activated by the bolt going into battery pretty easily, but the trick is to do it without drilling a new hole in the bottom of a receiver.

>>64443816
Reminds me of Joe Kidd's character Mingo with the broom handle Mauser.

Guess I should ask in /arg/ too, but if I wanted to set up an IAR in the same vein as a M27, piston guns are better over DI right? I know the M27 is a piston, I'm just referring to the capabilities of a piston operated gun.

how gay or useless is a trigger crank attached to a drill

>>64450803
what does this mean?

>>64450813
a crank trigger being those faggy spinning cams that pull the trigger

>>64450803
I think that makes it a machine gun

>>64444087
>>64449563
The LAD was pretty much the only practical idea that offered a real change in small arms innovation since WW1 and offered a decent way to transition to the new doctrine.

The only major issue would have been a bumpy period in the 1990s when everyone was worried about rifle plates but that would have faded when it was quickly realized that it didn't really matter.

>>64450803
>>64450878
>>64450914
A motor running a trigger crank is legally a machinegun, yes.

>>64450143
t. loser

>>64450922
What exactly is that thing supposed to do that the AK74 doesn't do a million times better? 5.45mm has more than twice the effective range, a magnitudes flatter trajectory, more than twice the terminal effect, far better barrier penetration, and it does it for basically the same cartridge weight and recoil.
Ditto for the M16 and 5.56mm.

I can actually envision some uses for a belt-fed machinegun running pistol cartridges, but I would certainly not call it the greatest innovation in small arms since WW1.
The SCHV assault rifle is the perfection of infantry rifles, and we already achieved that in the 1960s.

>>64450938
>operating this eccentric lobe via a hand crank setup that allows for the trigger to be pulled much faster than usual isn't a machine gun
>but when you motorize it is
>even though the exact same mechanical action of the trigger is occurring
>it just is ok because the motor makes it faster
If I used a clockwork mechanism to operate a trigger crank is that a machine gun too? How about attaching it via a lot of linkage to a dog in a wheel or an ox on a millstone? What about a water wheel?

>>64450938
>>64451074
Or what about a planetary gear set so that less than one crank revolution was needed per trigger pull? I'm still cranking it by hand after all. What's the cutoff? 1:4? 1:8?
The point I'm trying to make is how stupid and arbitrary the ATF rulings that got us where we are today are and how likely they'd get torn apart in most federal courts for being massive regulatory overreach outside the bounds of the law especially with chevron being tossed out.

>>64451074
>>64451095
The corner which the AFT has written themselves into is "shots per action of the trigger," which is why the FRT skirts that, you're actually repeatedly pulling the trigger with your finger over and over. Something like a motor or clockwork would be you firing multiple shots per the action of you activating it. Not sure what the rule would be for operating it with like a Dachshund or hamster running in a wheel though.

>The point I'm trying to make is how stupid and arbitrary the ATF rulings that got us where we are today are and how likely they'd get torn apart in most federal courts for being massive regulatory overreach outside the bounds of the law especially with chevron being tossed out.
Well, yeah, we all know that. I think that's also why the AFT are getting themselves in some shit these days.

>>64450515
The 3d printed mac designs use a piece of metal slapped in the upper to trip the lever. I'd have to fingerfuck an uzi to figure out a possible solution because I'm getting retarded in my old age, but there shouldn't be anything intrinsically preventing an frt mechanism being added to any firearm that uses a disconnecter. They will likely be more complex than just using an autosear though.

has there been any word on the as designs arc fire first batch shipment, first timeline was moved back to mid october, and they sill have not shipped yet. Did they run in to an issue or what,.

>>64451343
they are shipping now

>>64450722
Functionally speaking yes, possibly. Torture tests show piston guns tend to lock up whenever the barrel droops enough to bring the piston out of alignment with the barrel, but if you have to get a gun that hot you've got bigger issues than piston vs DI (IE, just spend that ammo money on a fucking m249s)
DIs first failure point is typically the gas tube, whichever blows out and prevents the gun from cycling. I have never seen either of these happen IRL and if we're talking "i want to blow through a combat loadout at once with no issues,", then the manufacturer is a more important consideration than the operating system

>>64449360
>noguns Euro posting "should should should" with some half-baked wannabe engineer idea guy shit
>"Well I'll never do this but uhh you AMERICANS won't either!"
Cope

>>64451349
Cool, I need to get a dremel bit for my LMT lower to make room for it soon

>>64443067 (OP)
This inspired me to finally get around to SBRing my PS90. And getting the ring sight for it.

>>64451177
>The corner which the AFT has written themselves into is "shots per action of the trigger,
It is not a corner they have written themselves into, it is the exact verbiage of the fucking law, with no room for ambiguity.

>>64451359
If the exact verbiage of a statute mattered we wouldn't have any gun laws. People still think the second amendment itself is ambiguous because they're retarded.

>>64451019
I need to make a effort post explaining the LAD, i am short on time to do at the moment.

The short version of the story is that it was invented in WW2 as a very light blowback belt feed ULMG that used 7.62x25mm as a replacement for all USSR small arms as a cost effective way to kill people. There are alot of details that i'm leaving out but i have irl stuff to deal with.

>>64451359
I know, but to them it's a corner because it's not what they wanted.

>>64451381
Fair. The constitution and USC really are bunk compared to agency agendas and political mood.
It's crazy to think that not too long ago the actual text of the second was plainly ignored in favor of a layered mess of related but distinct judicial interpretations.
I'm thankful for CoD and justice Thomas.

>>64450387
>gun design has pretty much plateaued since 1945
you were just shown that this isn't the case, the gov't is just opposed to using the new designs

>>64449360
>It should be possible to make a squad support weapon capable of 10x the speed while being half the length of current designs
What is that supposed to be good for? Weapons already have the cyclic rates they need, 1000rpm is already very high for a small arm, if you need more cyclic rate then you're airborne and engaging airborne targets.

One of you lads will post the link to the vector when it goes live right? I was not on the wait-list but want to be in that first wave.

>>64451400
Yes, I know what it is, you braindead fuckhead, but that's a beancounter's perspective on small arms. SCHV rifles give grunts THE best balance of features and capabilities for the best performance in most situations, a midget SAW isn't a good substitute for an infantry rifle, and certainly not suitable for the roles of a SAW or GPMG.

>>64451529
Plus higer rof means you need more ammo and the gun heats up faster. It seems to me that the biggest problem to solve for small arms is ammo weight, and then the lighter ammo needs to be cost effective. Honestly I don't forsee any major breakthroughs in the future for firearms as we know them. Some revolution somewhere else will either lead us to different delivery systems for kinetic projectiles or we'll end up with some kind of energy weapon. All current developments are either special purpose, or tradeoffs driven by changing battlefield demands.

>>64451543
Lighter ammo is nice, but you manage to reduce the weight of ammo but stick to a reserved rate of fire, that means carrying more ammo and lasting longer in combat.

>>64451543
I don't want to derail this thread again, but CT ammo was a straight upgrade, and high pressures are becoming trendy right now and would be a straight upgrade with new barrel metallurgy. That there haven't been any significant advancements in recent history is completely false.
Hell, the G11 had HMX propellants that could have been the next big thing after smokeless powder. The technology is right there, governments just refuse to fund its adoption. It's really the US's responsibility as NATO's largest member but they fuck it up every time.

>>64451381
The second was very poorly written. It should just read "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" with none of the militia nonsense. If they wanted an unambiguous reason for it they should have added "The defense of self, family, property, and the public good against brigands, criminals, and tyrants being immutable natural rights," in front.

>>64451948
Do the supposed performance increases merit the expenditure of a couple hundred billion to reequip the entirety of multiple armies when small arms haven't decided a war in 70 years? When the US fields power armor it'll make a rifle to defeat power armor, until then there's no point.

>>64452016
They sure are eager to field a regressive battle rifle with an FCS optic and suppressors for everyone instead, which has a budge of less than $5 billion for the weapons, ammo, and accessories. This kind of thing isn't a sidegrade like 6.5 Grendel, and if anything would help create a rifle for use against power armor (really, M1158 is sufficient for this).

>>64452006
>The second was very poorly written.
Only if you don't speak proper English and ignore all the other writings about it by the authors, meeting minutes, etc. Every word of it had a specific purpose and it was worded very carefully and then expanded upon in secondary writings on the meaning/purpose. Even the most 2A absolutist today don't take the 2A far enough for it's original intention.

>>64451948
Looking up the HMX propellants, they have about 70% more energy per mass than nitrocellulose. That's a straight upgrade and more room for trade space whether it's caseless or not.

Milspec FA Carpenter bolts $70 @ PSA. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-true-mil-spec-c158-hpt-mpi-bolt-carrier-group.html

>>64454271
thats pretty good

>>64454582
We all need dat for frt..

>>64453140
we dont speak that english anymore, and thats one of the great things about the constitution: the ability to change it. even the 2nd amendment is...an amendment to the original constitution. and its not insinuating they were wrong, its that times literally change and things like our understanding and the context of the 2nd amendment have also changed, which is absolutely true because your literally arguing with people over its meaning. if we changed it to what he said, whats wrong with that? it would absolutely shut down any gun grabbers arguments on the spot, its win win.

>>64443486
For those of us in commie states the stamp allows us to buy and possess an otherwise illegal firearm.

>>64455744
haha what a shitshow

>>64455744
Well, the only good news is that those can be challenged in lengthy legal battles now.

>>64455744
Right on! We need this nation wide. A "universal possession" tax stamp that allows firearm ownership regardless of any local or state laws. You really hit on something here!

>>64451948
>there haven't been any significant advancements in recent history
I fucking hate people who say this shit. Ridiculously uninformed morons who think they're qualified to comment negatively on a field and dismiss decades of hard work by excellent engineers because they think having shot a 10/22 once or playing Cowadoody makes them subject matter experts. And they refuse corrections even when it's spoonfed to them like toddlers. "Common sense" is a crock of shit and post-truth culture was a massive mistake.
>>64453162
Keep in mind that the HMX was diluted and mixed with a binder so as not to blow up the gun and be more durable, so it's not quite that good. With some napkin math, very roughly, the propellant volume of the 4.73x33mm cartridge is around 21 gr H2O. The cartridge's closest match ballistically is 5.45x39mm, which has a case capacity of 27 gr H2O. Subtract the volume of the seated bullet, air space, and air between the powder grains, and the compressed propellant volume works out to being nearly identical. It's so close that now I actually think that Dynamit Nobel intended to emulate the characteristics of nitrocellulose or some other powder with their HMX formulation, including the max pressures of around 55,500 PSI, and it doesn't really represent what HMX is capable of.

>>64456706
There's an amendment to the constitution that covers this.
>>64457316
Yes there have been tons of advancements, but I can't think of much that is truly paradigm-shifting for small arms since the adoption of the assault rifle. We're in a tradeoff phase, I don't expect any innovations with kinetic projectiles using chemical propellant that will be an across-the-board upgrade such that it would justify the investment. Maybe I'm myopic and I hope to be proven wrong.

>>64457347
Someone in an NGSW thread estimated that a 5.56x35mm FABRL load in a polymer CT cartridge case would weigh half as much as an M855A1 cartridge, around ~51% its weight or even less. IDK about you, but that's a pretty big deal in my eyes. Not as big as smokeless powder, but at least as important as the switch from battle rifles to assault rifles. Weight is critical for infantry, and ammo being lighter means they can be more mobile or carry next-gen weapons, like drones. All that, with zero disadvantages aside from the initial procurement cost.
As an anon said earlier, the Army for example is already spending on other technologies that are downright regressive compared to this. It really won't cost all that much. Sure, small arms aren't that important or critical, but their prices also reflect that. The R&D has already been done too.

We're very slowly being drip-fed things that would have been unthinkable 10, 15 years ago. The military seriously considering and actually buying suppressors for every soldier, Gucci-er optics, etc. Personally, I'm also a big fan of predictive fire control systems like the TrackingPoint and Smart Shooter that is currently being acquired by the Army and Marines in limited numbers, but I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea.

I think the industry is being artificially held back by companies trying to avoid manufactured risk and retooling costs and more importantly customer misinformation and even corruption. My main interest is ammunition, which can't be significantly improved upon by the civilian market for obvious reasons.

>>64455740
That's what supreme court rulings are supposed to be. But they either lack the balls, or are activists against the 2A, to rule in a truthful and concrete way. The original meaning is clear cut and well documented by the people who wrote it. SCOTUS, if they weren't political hacks, should take the mag ban, assault weapon ban, etc cases all as one and just lay out the original meaning of the 2A in one case, cite everything in the federalist papers, meeting minutes, etc so that you can't refute it without overturning the 2A with a constitutional amendment (Which still *should* fail a judicial test because it's specifically a part of the bill or rights).

>Why don't they?
Because of the blowback... not because it's wrong... ie. no balls

>>64443067 (OP)
Make a G36/Sl8 FRT/SS. Please use the original fire control group aswell. The new G3 one thats coming out is so gay same with the MP5 one that uses the AR15 cucked trigger housing.

>>64457347
It's not sexy revolutionary techbro drone age stuff, but polymer ammo & links for machineguns are not a small thing in the context of traditional short-to-mid range infantry combat with platoon-scale units maneuvering in a forest or town. In a fight between 100m to about 600m, the side with more machinegun ammo is the default advantage-holder, much like the side with better artillery having the default advantage at battalion scales. The machinegun ammo is also the heaviest thing in a platoon, which moves at the speed of its slowest guys who are about 2 inflection points on a graph behind the rest in weight, so a 30% weight cut to those 4-5 chaps is an instant maneuver speed boost to all 35-40.

>>64447955
anti-walk pins are a meme and completely unnecessary. Real m4's/m16's don't have them either

>>64457855
not that guy, but as a guy that does use anti walk pins, why do they walk out then? are the pins out of spec?

>>64457890
Id like an answer to this too. I use a milspec lower with milspec LPK but the pins still come loose.

>page 7
Bump

>>64443219
Advanced Reset Tech, maybe

>>64457819
>the gubermint knows best and totally has the best gear ever

>>64456706
Wouldn't it be great if that was an option and we could just order whatever we wanted to our doors?
>yeah uhhhhhhh
>I'll take a ma deuce
>a ma deuce with a tripod
>a ma deuce with an acog
>a ma deuce, hold the barrel shroud
>a six pack of M4s
>a ma deuce with a tripod and an acog
>and a heritage rough rider

>>64457515
Yeah, that would be a pretty big advancement, my caveat is cost-effectiveness. I don't dig deep on numbers, partially because I don't think we get truthful information. You could be correct that it is a cost effective upgrade. If we're going to see improvements in chemically propelled projectiles then it has to be caseless.

>>64459071
Not an argument.

>>64459324
Wrong post linked. Checkmate.

>>64457855
They make sense for shooting a lot of full-auto, ergo for recreational machineguns.

>>64457890
>>64457920
The grooves in the pins are where they're held in by spring tension. That's where the spring legs go. Drop in triggers don't always have something to hold tension on them which is why the anti-walk pins were created.

>>64459362
Well like >>64457855 said, actual FA M4's don't have these anti walk pins. How is this? Are the pins they use different?

>>64459362
im using a geissele trigger though, it's not drop in

>>64459443
They don't need them, the groves in the trigger pins have the hammer spring fit into them and they're held in place by spring tension. That's what I said. Anti-walk pins should only be necessary for aftermarket triggers that don't have a trigger spring that retains them.

>>64459550
Not sure, I have an old Giessele trigger (from 2013) in a Colt that was produced long enough ago it still has the restricted rollmark on it and have no issue with the pins. Check to make sure the pins have the groves on them and that the trigger spring is seated in them.

>>64459968 (me)
See how a trigger spring leg would line up with a groove on the trigger pin? Then the one one in the hammer should be under tension from the hammer itself always being under tension (it's under tension whether or not it's cocked). Maybe you guys have old pins that only have one grove and have them flip flopped. Again I'm not sure without actually being able to check it myself. My pins require intent to get them to start pushing out.

Any word on the Mac N Cheese / SAR-9 super safety?

>>64459991
Don't know what's up with my pins, but they slip out pretty easily with just a little pressure from a punch. They have 2 grooves. I'm thinking too much on this. I'll just buy anti walk pins

>>64460157
it could be your pins are slightly undersized or the pin holes in the receiver are slightly oversized (you can verify this with a pin gauge & micrometer). If the pins/pin holes are over/undersized you can order specialty oversize pins if needed.
Apart from that - could be your hammer is out of spec. The hammer pin is supposed to "lock into" the hammer via a little tension bar. So it should require a little bit of force to get the hammer pin in, if it easily slides in and out your probably need a new hammer.

>>64460977
what pins do you use? None of your pins walk out at all?

Got my friend's M72 Yugo RPK working as a three position FRT. It is working decently well. It can still choke up if you crank down super hard on the trigger, but it runs decent and doesn't require feathering.

Combined a standard FRT kit from SuperSafetyShop with a highly modified full auto safety selector and a full auto disconnector.

Waiting on a suppressor mounting muzzle device and a Wolff extra power recoil spring in addition to an ALG extra power hammer spring. The extra gas from the can plus the extra energy storage potential of the stronger springs should increase reliability even when pulling the trigger HARD, and increase reliability overall.

One big takeaway I've learned with FRT systems is that the user input via the trigger finger basically robs energy from the reciprocating system. Reliable function then requires MORE system energy than a lot of platforms were designed to function with originally.

I tried getting three position to work on some of my AKMs but was unable to.

https://streamable.com/znd72g

>>64461324
>Got my friend's M72 Yugo RPK working as a three position FRT
holy fuck
based
pics

>>64461324
god damn that's awesome, I bought all the parts and will be working on it soon on my wasr-10

what do you mean by this btw?
>highly modified full auto safety selector

I just bought one from online, what modifications did you have to do?

>>64461343
Pics of the mechanism? I don't have any right now, and the rifle is back with my friend.

>>64461356
Yeah it isn't 100% but it is damn close and I think with the suppressor and extra power springs it will be 100%
So the modifications I did to the safety selector might not be necessary at all for others. The safety selector that I got working was originally a mil surplus yugo full auto selector from the kit that had been modified per usual to have the full auto bit removed for easier install and removal from the gun with the fire control group still in place.

I had to add back material so it properly worked with the auto disconnector, but during that process something got buggered, maybe from too much welding heat. Anyway, took a bunch to get it working.

>what modifications did you have to do
I honestly won't even go into detail because after installing and getting working 4 different AK FRTs in three different applications (Romanian kit build AKM, MAK-90 Chinese, Yugo M72 RPK kit, PSA AK102) and failing in several other attempts. I can tell you that EACH install is going to be different as a function of ALL of the different factors. Which particular gun are you working with, which hammer, which trigger, which FRT or SS kit, how much gas the system has, etc etc. Luckily the grip and stock don't matter. Well actually that isn't true east german wire folding stocks have a bit of the spring stock mechanism which interfetterences with the cam, so I had to clearance that, but it wasn't working for other reasons.

Easiest install 100% IMO is a standard AKM with an ALG Trigger and this kit, plus ample gas, extra power recoil and hammer spring, and a buffer/bumper to increase ROF, and a KNS piston to tune gas.
https://deeznutztactical.com/product/ak-super-safety/

Genuinely considering buying an PS90 soon, maybe next year. I've wanted one for a bit but the FRT makes it even more viable. I have an FN 5.7 I want to pair it with. I had a dream a few days ago that I managed to buy one for $1000. I'm pissed.

>>64462409
I also plan on getting a ps90, please be aware that according to the company that makes it, you will need a 3 position selector

>>64462430
What do you mean? I thought they were selling it with the selector

>>64464081
not the ps90, the vector will

>>64462409
>the FRT makes it even more viable
You will only bitch about the cost of ammo even more.

>>64461290
they do not. just regular milspec pins, they have to have the ridges though. one pair is CMMG, one is PSA I don't remember where the 3rd pair is from.

>>64461481
>Yugo m72
is that one of the arms of American builds or his own?

Um ackchyually sweeties, you're all going to prison once the ATF changes their mind !1

>>64464894
nah they'll ask for them again and I'll just hand it over

I thought the vector people were only a week out

>>64465134
probably a delay or something, nothing on their blog. I dont use facebook or instagram so im not sure if they have an account or if they do, what updates they put there

>>64465134
>>64465159

>>64465259
thanks for posting this

>>64464894
Yeah, 100% they'll try again eventually. The goal right now is to put as many out as possible, that don't meet the legal definition of a machine gun, so they're "in common use." You just don't want to be the individual who ends up being the once forced to defend it.

Idk if you anons have seen this but apparently the first batch of the ARCFire triggers has been hot garbage, with most of the guys on arfcom reporting wobbly ass selectors with hardware backing out easily, wobbly reset trip dingus with guys trying to shim-fix it to take out the slop, improper timing with the reset being done with the bolt carrier halfway through its travel, etc. It seems like it's well more than half of the ones that have shipped have been inoperable in any configuration.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Active-Safety-Designs-ARC-Fire/130-791212/?page=6


This is a bummer as this has seemed to be the most promising of the SS style FRTs. So far it seems that the Rare Breed and AZ Regulator rank the highest of "drop in and go" setups.

I'm sure you guys get a lot of "Do they make FRT's/SS's for "Gun name" but I have to ask
Do they make one for the TNW Suomi builds?
I found one for $1,000 and I'm thinking I might get it especially if an FRT exists.
If they dont is there any easy way to make your own?

>>64467081
Depends on what you mean by easy. All you need is something to force the trigger to reset when the bolt is in battery, making it selectable is harder. Making it selectable and durable and drop in is much harder. I can't get any good views of how the tnw trigger group works, but it doesn't look like there's a lot of room in there, and if you fuck the trigger group making room, good luck getting another one converted.

>>64467072
well that's disappointing, I'm still getting two when they come back for purchase, perhaps they will iron out the issues

>>64443067 (OP)
Anyone making an FRT for the vector thats actually available? I keep seeing some people hyping them.

>>64468096
if a reliable FRT comes out for the Vector then i'm buying one and then cooooming

>>64467072
i think im gonna get the Arizona Regulator

>>64468236
Don’t its a piece of shit. I had one. It frt’d in semi mode, had to be fitted by shaving the hammer down. And if you field strip your rifle you have to worry about losing the tiny piece of shit.


Meanwhile i have two atrious trigger and 7 rarebreed that actually work

>>64468287
>7 rarebreeds
Damn. Also nice patch. Where'd you get it?

>>64468228
>>64468096
The people making them just launched i think. Only 100 people who were on their wait list can get them currently. Dunno when they'll start selling to the general public

>>64468287
i've heard the same about rarebreeds. Seems like every FRT has had people needing to fit it.

>>64468367
from the cringe store

Are the MARS v2 AK FRTs good to go

>>64468287
>fitted by shaving the hammer down
yeah that's how they work, Arizona regulator has to be fitted to the specific gun. Did you read the installation directions?

>>64467072
That sucks dick. I hope they figure out issues before the second batch, a normal 3 pos selector is great

>>64461324
Thats making me want to work on my 23" vepr in 762x39. I got a FRT to work in my saiga and my brothers 545 PSAK but was worried about the VEPRs thicker receiver causing issues.

>>64468287

It's stated that you may have to file some material off the hammer should it come into contact with the AZR pack. If you can't understand that all of these devices are basically some cobbled-together bullshit that wasn't meant to be basically to circumvent an arbitrary bullshit reg and that you have to fit things together sometimes then idk what to say to you. The overwhelming majority of AZ Regulator installs have little to no issues and run reliably.

>>64468236
Nice, anon, you'll enjoy it. I'm going to get another one most likely before Christmas, unfortunately because I'm a recovering clonefag most of my lowers have been Colt, so if I want a lower with an FRT for the most part I've been having to replace each lower one by one while decommissioning my Colt shit. Thankfully they got rid of the tax stamp fee as I'm probably going to have another 2-3 lowers to submit for Form 1 in January just for that alone.

>>64468723
Mine just shipped, I'll let you know how it goes. I hear they are a pain in the ass to fit, but that's basically anything on any AK.

>>64468739
Yeah me too. They seemed like a great alternative to the SS and I like the idea of using a traditional style selector to activate between semi and FRT. The main thing that keeps me from trying the Hoffman style one is that I refuse to use some kind of crossbolt Remington style activation between modes.

>>64469175
I like my DNT SS but yeah, cross bolts kinda suck. The 3 position AZ regulator seems pretty nice, but damn that price. Cheaper than a RB and only slight more expensive than the ARC I guess.

>>64467072
Looks like from reading it, there is a bit of tolerance stacking with the parts, as well as some finding out they need a different buffer weight. Hopefully its something that can get fixed with a simple shim.

Bump

How important is cutting the upper in actuality?
I have been able to function test with racking the bolt and everything seems to work fine, but I have not been able to go to the range, and everything online says if the lever snaps in the first x rounds it's because you didn't cut the upper, bit it really does not see like I should need to?

>>64471276
if you have a low shelf lower and the upper isnt binding, then you're fine. I never had to cut my upper but there are people who have needed to

>>64469175
>I've been having to replace each lower one by one while decommissioning my Colt shit.
Why would you have to decommission the lower?

>>64471495
I have X amount of uppers with Y amount of lowers. If I want FRT's in more than say, 2 lowers that I have right now, I'm SOL as I said, most of my shit is Colt. So I'm not going to buy 3-4 more decent quality low shelf or M16 pocket lowers just to have the others kicking around, I'll just buy 3 stripped lowers and just pull all the parts off the Colt lowers and shelf them. I mean I'm not poor per-se, but it seems like a waste of money to do anything other than that.

>>64469876
Yeah it seems that some of those shims have been fixing the issues, but they were complaining about having to buy bulk packs at $25 just to get one or two shims and one guy was talking about sending them out to people or something just to help. If it's just a shim or something they can fix by adding material or slightly modding the next version before production than I imagine it would be fine, but I want to see some more videos and info on it before I give them any money on the restock.

>>64471599
>I'll just buy 3 stripped lowers and just pull all the parts off the Colt lowers and shelf them.
Personally I'd just give the colts an m16 cut, but it's not like lowers are expensive.

>>64443845
That's a mighty nice MOPAR, friend.

>>64471599
>Yeah it seems that some of those shims have been fixing the issues, but they were complaining about having to buy bulk packs at $25 just to get one or two shims and one guy was talking about sending them out to people or something just to help.
NTA but a protip that I thought was completely useless until now, feeler gauge sets (the ones that fan out) are literally just a shim assortment and a Harbor Freight feeler gauge is $5. They went on sale for $3/ea in 2021 according to a coupon; not sure how often they go on sale. Alternatively if someone wants to make shims available they're probably best off getting a sheet to make shims out of but I'm personally not sure how you cut that without putting a burr on the edge or making the edge all wavy or kinking it. Sheetmetal work is something else.

>>64468287
lmao, i'd love to see you take that shit out of your basement

>>64471620
Seriously, get out the router and put in an end mill. Aluminum just melts away like fat off Kirsty Allie.

>>64471691
>I'm personally not sure how you cut that without putting a burr on the edge or making the edge all wavy or kinking it.
You use a break, and yeah feeler gauges are great. What else is great are high grit diamond stones off amazon. Those coupled with some polishing compound are what I use to fit all my retarded shit. It's amazing what you can do with a set of go/nogo gauges, scrap metal, a drill press, and some balls. I'm looking to get a 3d printer next just because it will cost less when I hopelessly fuck up a receiver/frame.

>>64471704
Yeah, that reminds me that the easyjig does an m16 cut now. I've been using old fixtures from my dad's shop and a drill press/mill vise setup for years, but that takes some finess since drill presses don't like lateral forces.

>>64471620
>>64471704
Alright fuck it, I just bought some bits and a router off Amazon and I'm printing off some jigs right now. I guess I'll give one a shot this or the following week sometime if I can figure the jigs out. A lower is a lower but them older Colt lowers still fetch decent coin so I'd rather not fuck it up, I'll try to find a guide. Sucks though as milling out with the jigs are still going to require me to strip the lower down basically bare anyway.