Thread 64444431

Post gear, discuss gear.
Halloween edition
Old: >>64414754

Ordered an LBT-2657 Eight Pocket Ruck. What am I in for?

/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographics: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

Quick and dirty "what plates should I buy on a budget?":
Level III: Hesco 3411 (7.62x51 M80 / M855A1) or LTC 19513 (concedes 7.62x39 BZ API and NIJ cert for Level III but is lighter).
Level IV: Hesco 4403
As discussed thoroughly last thread, RMA is still bad.

>>64444635
>LBT-2657 Eight Pocket Ruck
u paid 1300 buckerinos for a backpack? kinda sus bro

>>64444925
No, I paid $200 for an old one

>>64445052
Screamin' deal

>>64444431 (OP)
Someone recommend me a patrol/day pack sized pack that works well with ALICE LBE/LBV88E

>>64445060
Not really. Needs a frame and straps but it's NOS and OD green which I wanted

>>64445094
ALICE medium or an M56 buttpack.

>>64442955
>waiting for Adept Archon to release so we can see if they follow the RMA-Highcom nominal sizing game
On further thought, the Archon is 5.7lb and multi-hit rated for M993 at 3,050ft/s, so it's a standalone XSAPI that very nearly meets the ICW VTP XSAPI's ~5.4lb weight target, but does not require soft armor.
No known submission for the VTP XSAPI can meet that weight target and still past first article testing, not even the joint Avon Ceradyne-Tencate model, so I think the Archon must be down a lot on drop foam and/or the sizing is nominal. For a SAPI M it should weigh 5.9lb, and so an ICW version should be right at the weight target. Will remain to be seen, since there's rarely a free lunch with armor.
Or this could go like the rumored 4.5lb Level IV they were allegedly developing years back that never materialized.
Best case scenario it's the Oneleaf of plates and we all load up on de facto "Level V" plates for around $1.2k a pair. Worst case it either doesn't release or ends up being too fragile / too expensive.

>>64445104
The mediums feel a bit too big for day use but I should still probably get one with a frame anyways. It would complement a surplus MOLLE waist pack I threaded the belt through.

So /k/ hates RMA and Highcom but what's the word on Spartan?

>>64445820
They were infamous a while back for compensating their affiliates at a very high rate - 12.5% or something around that. They make their bones selling steel, which is almost always shit, their ceramics are a gray area.
When looking at armor, ask yourself what "different brand X" actually has to offer over LTC / Hesco / Tencate. What do those three companies not offer that Spartan does?

>>64445820
They're shady. On their website they say their plates "Meet NIJ standards", but they are not NIJ certified. It's basically a "believe me bro, they'll stop the bullets". It's up to you, whether you want to pay for "trust me bro".

>>64446129
I just checked the NIJ CPL. They've got a fat stack of certs, but they're doing the "tencate trick" and it's a bunch of RMAs, Hescos, and Tencates they aren't even selling - hoping people don't connect dots with model numbers. They have a few certs, but that's shady indeed.

>>64445820
Also they sell half a shield, which I think is hilarious. It's 18.6lb for the III+ steel version and a thousand bucks. You can put it on a payment plan for as low as $53.87 a month 24 months.

>>64446307
That's crazy. That shield probably costs them $25 to make, lol. It's 18 pounds of common industrial steel, flat. As for the shape, idgi

>>64446432
I think this pic exemplifies the intended use case. It's supposed to be a less bulky shield that can be negotiated around and through narrow doors. There are also IIIA and III (RF1) PE versions available.
I'm not sure the idea is sound since you can't head a stack with it like you would a regular "full" shield. So people have to keep two shields, one for doors and the other for regular shield business? No me gusta.

>64446444
>Also laughing at the pic because the way they're stacked up somebody inside could get a two-for-one femoral special with a .308 on them. Where are the other guys, behind the second dude? The RF2 shield is also only good up to M193 @ 3,250ft/s so M80A1 or equivalent can hose it.
Wonder if it's possible to persuade Adept to make the Archon or Colossus into a shield. By my math the Archon would be 19.1lb as a 30x12 rectangle and would weigh less than this using this weird half-shield cut. It would also be over two thousand bucks but that's probably tolerable for the use cases that would justify an M993-rated hand-portable shield.

Alright, so it's come to my attention that pic related is out of date. Taking suggestions on Version 10.5. My ideas:
1. Remove Highcom across the board. I thoroughly reviewed almost their entire lineup for the Highcom infographic and they have virtually nothing to offer over LTC / Hesco unless you're into a III++ that weighs and costs nearly as much as a Hesco 4601 or an RMA 1165 that isn't an RMA 1165. We're going to need a fill-in for budget Level III because the surplus SAPI supply is fairly dry. I vote we throw SRTs in and go with the Hesco T212 but this infographic is important so I'll take a vote.
2. Condense options. Budget Level IV can be reduced to just the 4403. The 4S17M has nothing to offer and weighs 8.7lb for a SAPI M. It puts on a great show in Buff's testing with like 12x M855A1 stopped, but if you're eating twelve M855A1 just to the 9.5x12.5" upper chest area you're getting hosed and it's GG.
3. Cut LTC 26605. It's worse than the 4403 in almost every way and has been suspended twice by the NIJ. Bye.
4. Maybe move plates around into an SRT-III-III+ (RF2)-III++ (M855A1)-TSA(M855A1+M80A1)-IV/RF3-RF3+ lineup and then do good-better-best like a 7x3 grid instead of this segmented layup, if that makes sense.
5. Maybe remove VPAM? That's covered in the Euro armor guide already and it's not relevant CONUS.

>>64446794
>Please get into an armor autism discussion with me about my infographics
No

>>64446822
Very well. Have some armor autism.

I’m looking for some options for a softshell or fleece jacket. I like the tad designs but they seem pricey. Baerskin looked like an option until I read about the shitty cs. What are some /k/ approved fall wear?

>>64446908
Is UF Pro an option for you? Their fall wear is peak.

>>64445754
damn they killed it

>>64448436
/k/ mods are the faggiest in the world

>>64446794
I don't have enough autism to be of any help but thanks for keeping the guide up to date

>>64448858
Of course. I'm thinking 10.5 will be a lot more condensed and focus on being less autistic. Tell people good, better, best options at each protection level. Specific subject areas are already covered in greater detail with other infographics. It should focus on being a quick "in-and-out" guide.
The shitlist will absolutely remain. If anyone has suggestions for shitlisting I'm all ears. I'm open to shitlisting Highcum unless someone can provide reasons not to. Open season.

>>64444431 (OP)
Tactical use case for jester caps?

>>64445754
>>64448436
>>64448709
What was it and did it actually violate any rules or are the Jannies just being anti fun like usual?

>>64448936
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64444247/#64444444

What am I in for?

>>64448976
use as a sniper decoy?

>>64449376
no idiot, the snipers are looking for soldiers

>>64449432
no you fool, double deception! Use the clowns as decoys. When the enemy doesn't bite, have the jesters and the Navy SEALs switch uniforms. The SEALs disguised as jesters will approach the enemy unharmed on unicycles and the jesters diguised as SEALs will write books funding the next stage of the operation.

I just shit my pants help me buy new ones

>>64450298
Get this
>https://www.venturesurplus.com/products/us-navy-uniform-pants-nwu-i/

>>64450318
Do they have that rank ass surplus smell to them? I can't rizz the range bunnies with that stank give me balenciaga

balenciaaaaga give me the good shit

>>64448936
>did it actually violate any rules or are the Jannies just being anti fun
it was in a chink spam thread that got nuked.
picrel

>>64419059
>>64419145
I found a small short BDU. This fits 100% dead on with my 38 inch chest. I can even button up and it doesn't kill my arms. I'll give the medium short to a friend or donate it to the salvation army.

>>64450499
goodwill is evil. SA is basado.
>>64450460
Why does this always happen? Are they salty?

>>64446794
why is hesco so regarded when they've failed the most NIJ tests by far? also why not the Highcom 3s9m? the LTC 1953 or whatever and the 3s9m seem to be the best overall sets you can get right now.

>>64450814
All excellent questions.
1. Basically everyone except Tencate has failed a FIT. Even LTC, the mfg's of USSOCOM's current plates, have failed two FITs - on the same plate. What matters is how the company addresses and resolves the failure. Hesco had four suspensions - on the 4400, 4600, 3610, and 3410. They were transparent. It happened because of a defect in the ceramic heat treatment. They issued widespread recalls and replaced a lot of plates. A lot of people got upgraded from 3610s to 3810s at no cost. They introduced new models and got them NIJ certified immediately. 4401, 4601, 3411, 3611. They have had no issues since then. That's how it should be done. Meanwhile we don't even know why the LTC 26605 has been suspended twice. RMA recalled I think six 1155s. We know the 1155 sucks because an anon tested one and it failed to two .308 at 100 meters. Pathetic for an 8.3lb plate.
2. The Highcom 3S9M, when you look at SAPI sizing because Highcom's 10x12 is way undersized, is almost as heavy and thick as the Hesco 4601 - and costs about the same - but cannot stop M2AP. It fulfills a near-useless "III+++" niche like the Hesco 3814.
3. The LTC 19513 is the best overall mid-range M855A1 stopping III+ - the Hesco 3411 is stronger but heavier. When looking at Highcom you cannot trust their 10x12 shooters. It often weighs less than the 10x12 swimmer - that's how much smaller and reduced coverage it is.

>>64450707
>Why does this always happen?
the chink spam or the nuking? the former is all just cope, and the latter is because was a low effort propaganda threads about those stupid fucking robots.

>>64451015
>after he fell into the vat of mcnugget goop, A2 became known as... the Jerker.

>>64446794
Just for shit and giggles, I got a $25 target for next range trip.

>>64451068
Nice, make sure to report back how it does.

>>64451073
Will do. Not sure when I can get out next. Might be a few months and the temu shop might not even be valid anymore

>>64451083
It all comes from the same huge white label factories, so if the shop goes bust others will rise up.

>>64451102
Yeah what I figured. I mean at least know if the shop was dishing out cardboard or something close to 3a for anybody else if interested.

Going to hit it with 9mm +p and then a 5.7. not sure if should start with the 5.7 and work way down or start at 9 and work way up. Probably finish it with a 12 ga slug which it should be able to stop if it's 3a

>>64451336
Start with the 9mm and work your way up. If it can stop a slug after eating multiple handgun rounds it'll be a lot more persuasive than shooting the slug first when the armor is fresh

>>64450707
>goodwill is evil
Explain.

Are 100% acrylic balaclavas (so majroity of them) dangerous to breathe through Since you're breathing in tiny acrylic fibers the whole time?

>>64451465
Could be worse. Man up.

>>64451472
>Man up.
>while breathing in micro plastic fibers
Long term that thing will nuke his testosterone.

>>64451465
Get a wool one instead.

>>64450460
>>64450707
>>64450889
I don't get the point of nuking Chicom threads honestly, they're comically bad at propaganda and not even the paid shills can save face. People here easily dismantle pro PLA arguments and humiliate them.
Jannies should just leave them alone so long as they aren't flooding the entire catalog.

>>64451465
25% of the microplastics in your balls come from the particulates that are in the air from car tires. If you go outside, you're inhaling microplastics. There isn't anything you can do about it. The best plan is to plasticmax, so that in 3 generations, your progeny has adapted to it, just in time to live in plastic suits, and drink nutrients from plastic tubes while exploring the cosmos.

>>64451741
>There isn't anything you can do about it.

>>64451731
If it’s just testosterone or fertility I’m not worried. Not having kids anyways

>>64451441
https://paddockpost.com/2025/02/14/executive-compensation-at-goodwill-2023/
Also they keep upping prices on CDs

>>64451465
Arcteryx skimask, yo
Or get a proper wool one
>>64450707
>SA is basado.
One of my relatives in WW1 swore they were the only charity who did anything for them over there.

>>64449365
Serious question. If it’s just a bump helmet why not just buy a cheap one off aliexpress?

>>64452741
Because it's a bump helmet. You still want something that is both durable and effective

>>64452750
Truly, is there any quantifiable difference between plastic bump helmets and their liners? Bump helmets are just a hard plastic shield to stop bumps. They aren’t motorcycle helmets with complex engineering to them. At most just switch out the boa system for a team Wendy. I’ve never used either I’m just dubious that a 400$ bump is different then a skateboard helmet

>>64452741
Because I always read how cheap ones need new pads/suspension/shrouds/rails. This cost $450 and I know it should be fine.

>>64451731
>Long term that thing will nuke his testosterone.
More motivation to procreate when not suffering a midlife crisis.
>>64451394
Thanks. Will do!

>>64453214
Awesome. The other armor thread up at the moment shows a lot of fellow /k/ommandos need destitute-tier armor that works. People can't swing even $395 a set and are turning to VISM. The more testing data on this stuff the better.
In other news, as of two months ago and per Buffman (old 1165 vid comments), talks are underway between himself and Gilliam to test the cheapo GTS plates. They're cheaper than RMA and on paper better built, so if they perform and there's no RMA-style shenanigans they'll be a worthy /pfg/ option. The 1023 is $320 a set, 7.3lb single curve, and per a test report stops 6x .30-06 M2AP dropped.

>>64452781
>I’m just dubious that a 400$ bump is different then a skateboard helmet
Be dubious. I use a climbing helmet I have for speilunking or my brimless OSHA hard hats. Just fine.

>>64452781
The 400 dollar bump is slightly more convenient as you don't have to drill holes yourself.

>>64452698
salvation army is a2 approved

Any recommendations on backpacks? Something tough I can treat like shit. Currently have some sort of Oakley one that has been good to me for some years, but one of the shoulder straps is kinda fucked now

>>64452698
what plates are you running in this carrier? or those shoulder pads sufficient for comfort and the load? (pic for attention)

>>64454124
What about osprey?

>>64453636
fr fr
>>64454124
Surplus LBT 3day off ebay
>>64454133
Shoulder pads arent really for the carrier as much as they are for the shit ontop of the carrier like the bergen, mortar or machinegun.
They do a fantastic job on those situations, love my ice pads

>>64454181
We need more layout pics. Whatever happened to those?

>>64454335
>implying anyone in gq has gear
You funny

>>64454343
Embarrassing. I miss what this place used to be.

>>64454351
>people don't want to post their setups cuz this ain't instagram
based nostalgia anon

>>64451068
I've seen temu plates stop some threats, but backface deformation on those is wild.

>>64454457
The trick is that some of them go by NIJ 0108.01 and not 0101.06, so they're held to an older set of requirements (lower velocity on some threats) and no BFD requirement.

>>64454181
thanks for replying, im in the research phase for a helmet and plate carrier. also nice set up
>>64454335
this is all i have

>>64454516
Did you save Roebuck or Polonsky?

>>64444431 (OP)
Is the crye zip on pouch worth it? or should i just get the molle panel and put on my idogook mini backpack I already have and save like $100

>>64454500
So trauma pads are a must?

>>64448936
>Tactical use case for jester caps?
Silly hats are ideal for Bard builds, when equipped even a low tier jesters hat will give you +2 moral boost at the cost of basically having zero protection for your head (no shit).
In short, the sillier the better and that allows you to get something crazy like +8 or +10 in MB if RNG is kind to you.

>>64454706
Trauma pads are a huge gray area because there's no standardization with them. They can help, but the only ones that demonstrably do anything are the climatic panels the Russians use to get BFD below 22mm versus NIJ <44mm. They're ventilated, ribbed, and go on the backside of your plate bag because they're an inch thick and can't go in behind the plate.
I do want to investigate the trauma pad market to see if any of them besides the CAPs are worth a shit. RMA recs you wear trauma pads with all their plates, so does AR500, but that's IMO just an add-on. They are far thinner than CAPs and are incrementally effective in theory - like cut BFD down from 42mm to 35mm kinda deal.

>>64454583
>LPVO on a AR with a 6" barrel

>>64455340
He's right, it should be a 2-10.

>>64455352
It should be an elcan and an RH25V2. You see the more weight we put on the front the less it kicks

>>64455291
> The climatic panels the Russians use to get BFD below 22mm versus NIJ <44mm. They're ventilated, ribbed, and go on the backside of your plate bag because they're an inch thick and can't go in behind the plate.
Why does nobody make these in the US or Europe? They seem like a pretty obviously good idea, for comfort+thermal management if nothing else.

>>64455340
nogunz thought process

>>64455457
There's a couple of manufacturers for vents and cooling pads. Qore Pads are the big ones, then you have some other stuff. Quite a big part of the industry, actually, but it's primarily oriented towards LE that will be sitting in cars for a long time and accordingly a lot of the options are soft armor-oriented. As for trauma reduction purposes, the majority of people tend to assume that because BFD is under 44mm it's fine because the NIJ says it's fine, but that's not necessarily the case. Take pic related Hesco 4400 against a Russian 7.62x54R. It worked, but there was still obvious trauma. Less BFD, less injury. See below video for an admittedly crooked test done by some Puccians between a Granit plate with a CAP and an ESAPI without. Granit plate won big time on BFD because it had a 1" trauma pad behind it. (skip to 5:19).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qVAJa0RR0w

Screengrab from above video. You can see the Granit plate (right) had a CAP on the back and the ESAPI (left) did not. Again, Russian 6B45 "Granit" plate that needs the CAP to meet requirements versus an ESAPI which just needs soft armor. ESAPI was very old and is a Ceradyne 92080 manufactured 10/2007, so admittedly it may have been handled roughly in its 18 years of life and not performing at tip top condition.

Lastly is the infamous Second Chance video from the 1980s showing off a steel Level III "Hardcorps" vest getting shot at point blank by 7.62x51 and comically no apparent injury to the wearer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOCOAXefDs
The reason why this reconciles with the pretty significant trauma in >>64455538, which was a ceramic Hesco, is because good steel plates exhibit very low BFD numbers well under 44mm. Ceramic and PE plates tend to run higher BFD numbers, some like RMA's new XRT and Adept's Mantis are just barely below the 44mm failure point against certain rated threats. This doesn't make steel plates viable, because they aren't for many other reasons.

>>64455557
they don't have an exriation date.

>>64454181
>Surplus LBT 3day off ebay
Had a couple of these. Donated one to my brother in law.
Ultimately I decided I like having either water bottle pockets on the side, or at the very least, molle so I can add my own. User preference

>>64454335
Agreed. They helped a bunch when I was first getting into gear

>>64455871
Never said they did. However, plates can, for example, be harshly dropped repeatedly ("conditioned") and this has a documented loss of performance. There is an inspection sticker on it for 2022, but the test was uploaded this year.

>>64452386
Its not just fertility or hormones, its the whole endocrine system. They particularly fuck the thyroid, leading to high/low blood pressure, heart attacks, hyperthyroidism, mood swings. They can also trick the body into excessive cell growth, leading to tumors and cancers. You could be an anti-natalist celibate and still have huge problems stemming from microplastics. Its not like there's much you can do about it though, even if you only wear natural fibres and drink distilled water you're still getting bombarded by them.

Newfag to plates and rigs and such. I'm looking for a low visibility rig that I can conceal under a flannel or something, but has the capability of bulking up when concealability doesn't matter.
I've been looking at the Beez LVBC as a possible option, but, having no experience with plates, I'm not sure if this is still too bulky. I like the idea of the BALCS soft armor for when I don't want a big square plate sticking out of my chest, but I don't have a sense of whether soft armor will make me look too noticeably fat to conceal.

https://www.beezcombatsystems.com/collections/balcs-carriers/products/balcs-lvbc

Thoughts? Opinions? Insults?

Hop where are you. Why is Venture taking forever to ship my shit!!!

>>64454351
Tis the sign of the times
>>64454516
Base m1c
>>64454583
Thanks
>>64456997
I think you will like a Crye LVS much more than this.

>>64457023
>Crye LVS
I just looked into it and I think you're right, but I also think $900+ is quite the premium. Something that nice just ain't in the budget for me at this time, unfortunately.

>>64457079
If you cant afford the premium(tm) offerings then go dedicated vs combined. Clearly isnt a duty vest you want to be able to throw trunk plates over so whats the harm in separating the two systems? You will be getting a better soft vest and a better hard vest.

>>64457129
Makes sense. Thanks for the input.

>>64456997
Sounds like "less-than-overt" plates might be your style. VelSys PBZSA is the gold standard but it's overly expensive. Your options open up a lot if you can go overt when you need rifle protection. What's your budget?

Just saw some zoomer shop on xitter called Rebel Raiders. Anyone have their plate carrier? Was gonna buy a crye but theirs is a bit cheaper.

>>64457431
No but I follow him on IG. Seems like a good deal if you just want a cheap carrier, comes with all the parts. Made In Vietnam I'm pretty sure. Guy seems cool enough, too.

>>64457423
I was looking at $300-400 for the vest, but that may be wildly off base. Again, I'm still new at this.
And to reiterate, I'm just looking for a rig that is concealable if need be with the appropriate cover garments, I'm not looking for the stealthiest rig possible. Heck, looking at the JPC 2.0, I think that could fit under a flannel if you wanted it to, but that's just me guessing after looking at some vids and pics online.

>>64457649
$300-400 for the vest and plates? Realistically you need $395 for a pair of decent plates.

>>64457575
>Vietnam
Damn, never mind. I've been trying to buy US made stuff more often.

>>64457649
a hard plate is going to be obvious under anything thinner than a loose fitting hoody
you might be able to pass a balcs off under a flannel but it's gonna make you look pretty chunky
a concealable soft vest with a JPC over top is probably your best bet if you really need the option for concealed pistol rated armor

Do any of these other Gucci belts from ferro, gbrs, crye, whatever do anything drastically different than the Eagle/AWS belts?

>>64457784
I was just referring to the vest for now. I know the plates are gonna be their own expense. Sorry for not specifying.

>>64457431
You should buy a crye carrier vs an overseas collection of other peoples products
>>64457649
>Heck, looking at the JPC 2.0, I think that could fit under a flannel if you wanted it to, but that's just me guessing after looking at some vids and pics online.
Its going to be a big ask
Jackets dangling will make it possible but really if you are going peak concealment its going to be soft armor or some compromise shit
>>64457856
Not really
>Crye
They offer some larger belts

>>64457964
>Its going to be a big ask
That's just what I needed to confirm. It's hard to gauge these things without hands-on experience. Thanks.

>>64457964
Are you a one wrap guy? Any experience using it and beating the shit out of it?

>>64457964
Agreed on compromise shit. True covert rifle protection is 7.62x39mm mild steel core tops (VS-PXULV) or at the very edge BZ API / M855A1, but that's not obtainable. Thin traditional rifle plates (0.5-0.67") are called less than overt for a reason. Just don't buy a pair of LTC 28791s from Apex for $4.5k. Yikes.

Is there a graphic for boots?

>>64458328
wym velocity sells it you just need a pig to buy it for you aint hard

>>64457964
cringe name but is this good
https://sheepdogmics.com/products/triad-waterproof-ip68-ptt-microphone-motorola-apx

>>64458346
VelSys doesn't sell their ShadoWorks stuff to regular law enforcement. The PXULV is explicitly SOCOM's gen3 ULV plate and the BZ API / M855A1 variant distinct from that is allegedly used by secret service. Same goes for their LTC 28570 competitor, which is an overt 0.9" / 4.4lb standalone B-32 API stopper.
They can however buy stuff like the PBZSA no problem. That's not covert but it is under 0.65" thick. It's the best of the high-end B4C-PE M855A1/M80 plates, between itself, the Tencate CR6450SA, and the LTC 28791.

>>64458445
Good hunting. Velocity Systems Tac. Standalone and VS-PXULV aka Xtreme Ultra Low Vis are the two important models.

>>64458453
>VS-PXULV
titanium?

>>64458461
The PULV is the titanium. PSTES steel. PXULV is UHMWPE. PULV and PSTES weighed too much and had a spall problem. PXULV is basically a quarter of the weight. The OEM is Tencate (Integris) for all of VelSys' ShadoWorks division plates.

>>64458340
Yes my disciple. Heed my words. Buy a boot that fits well. Spend more than $60. Actually try them on. Avoid goretex. Buy according to the support you need. No sense in clomping around in clown shoes if you’re not regularly carrying a heavy pack.

>>64458484
> ShadoWorks
Cringe.
Do they have a catalog somewhere or something? The edgy/xtreme name and secrecy make the whole thing seem maximally larpy.

>>64451465
No. You’ll likely want to reinforce the area between the eye holes. They also like to take on moisture and will tend to slide around at that point. Gaiter + beanie is a better combo. That or a ninja style balaclava.

>>64458724
What no nigga? Breathing in plastic fibers is NOT good for you.

>>64458776
Breathing in any fiber is not good for you. The acrylics are fine. They’re just not great for other reasons.

>>64458810
They're the most hazardous to breathe in out of any other clothing materials

>>64458825
False. Why you’re seeing is mainly marketing for skiers. That being said, just go buy a wool buff. Problem solved.

>>64444431 (OP)
Hey gqanon, have you considered doing an optic info graphic? I know it's a rabbit hole and /bag/ is your autism atm, but an infographic on magnified optics and red dots and which are poor- mid- high-tiers worth really considering would be pretty dope. Been looking around at 2-10x and 3-12x optics and would love to get an idea of what's going to be the best bang for my buck

>>64458708
Yeah it's corny as shit. No catalog because it's "black-side" and not advertised / sold to regular people. All armor manufacturers have "black-side" options except maybe RMA and Highcom. Hesco, Tencate, LTC are notorious for this. Ceradyne back in the day was 100% blackside.
>>64459010
>My title is gqanon? yikes
I'll consider it but it's not my strong suit.

>>64459033
>thanks for not tripfagging
I don't mind putting in some research but I don't have the time or ability to make the graphics, or any way to buy and assess a majority of optics

>>64455457
Because y'all are gear queers stroking yourself to high-speed-low-drag specops gear?
Meanwhile, we're fighting a large-scale near-peer conflict with massive amounts of frag flying around at all times, nobody closer that ~10 km from the line of contact can afford to walk around without at least wraparound frag packets, collar and groin pads. And we're wearing that all day, every day, with ceramic plates, sustainment and at least 6 mags on. Without CAPs, you're cooked as soon as you run a hundred or two or dig for 5 minutes. Half a year, you overheat and collapse on the spot, other half - you sweat through your layers into the vest, which starts freezing your core as soon as you stop moving.

>>64459049
>Half a year, you overheat and collapse on the spot, other half - you sweat through your layers into the vest, which starts freezing your core as soon as you stop moving.
Bruh, I just want to buy grocery the first two weeks of November with something on under my hoody and not stand out

>>64459093
I'm sorry that you have to wear plates to go for groceries, anon. Consider emigrating from turd world.
While you're still there, get yourself a pair of standalone plates rated to a low-bfd standard, a slick carrier and a thick baggy-cut blank hoodie in neutral color. It should be a bit oversized, with the hem hanging a little below your balls.
Cut the elastic bands off the cuffs and the hem, lose the drawstring. Get a length of weedwhacker wire, cut off a piece long enough to fit into the drawstring channel, then heat it up in boiling water and form into a halo, then put it in place of drawstring. Now you have a non-restrictive but cozy concealment garment that allows your to wear plates and maybe even an OWB holster, and draw rapidly with no snags.
Pic somewhat related, that carrier with Br4 plates fit under the hoodie no problem, but I lost the pic.

>>64459033
> Hesco, Tencate, LTC are notorious for this.
Current-year Hesco don't seem to do shit like this. Their old "black side" plates were the definition of vaporware, too.

What do y'all like to put in grenade pouches other than grenades?

>>64459178
What's the point of the weed whacker wire, and cutting off the elastic cuff? If anything the cuff helps keep the sleeve from getting in the way of your hands

>>64445094
Mystery ranch 2 day assault pack

>>64459204
Zyn, compass or batteries

>>64459044
We can make it a group effort then. I'll be able to go into this more aggressively after the /bag/ guide is revised.
>>64459195
The entire "black side" from Hesco we know about is because Reed Composite Solutions, AKA Hesco before 2015, let ATT Tactical reveal the 3590 and 4520 on their site. You could buy the 4520 at the time if you had the necessary credentials. My take is that it had no drop foam. 5.4lb XSAPI eleven years ago is ridiculous. Either that or it's not actually an XSAPI but is an ECSAPI, which is a rare SAPI variant that weighs as much as an ESAPI but has one hit M993 protection. Second hit 50% chance. XSAPI stops three cold. It could then still also be missing drop foam. Keep in mind the 4520 lost to the LTC 28601 for the FBI XSAPI contract, which was on paper inferior to the 4520 so something was off.
>current year Hesco
I would argue the shot show versions of the 3811 and 4801 are black side, along with the 3814 even though you can buy that one. Rumored models are 3885, 4650, and U225. I consider them in the same "urban legend" bucket as the LTC 28855 and Ceradyne 2572575.

>>64459226
Weed whacker wire is thermoform plastic. It sets the shape of the hood opening so it wont collapse onto your eyes and is extremely easy to throw back. I usually wear hoodies with ball caps anyway, but I've found that you can shape this halo to have the hood stay mostly out of the way of your peripheral vision. If you wear a cool guy cap with velcro panel on the front, the wire catches slightly between the seam of the cap and the edge of velcro or the patch you have on there and makes your entire hood move with rotation of your head, further improving visibility. If you're feeling extra /fa/, you can add a little bit of velcro hook to the apex of the hood loop to secure it to the cap.

Elastic cuffs drag and bunch up any layers you have under them. This mod, if done properly, leaves the hoodie with a shorter than usual sleeve, barely long enough to cover your wrist joint when hanging down. When doing any manipulations, the cuffless sleeve stays well out of the way of the wrist, as far back as mid-forearm depending on the cut of the source hoodie. Same with the hem: it should be long enough to conceal any equipment on the belt line when in relaxed posture, but hang free to be easily pulled out of the way when you raise your hands to your "workspace".

This "concealment hoodie mod" is an idea I've been playing with over the years, but I don't have any demo pics with me at the moment. If you want to try it, get an oversized baggy heavy hoodie with no pocket, it's easier that way. Pic related.

>>64459049
Excellent argument. I'll attest my Aliexpress CAPs make my vest a lot comfier. Anyways, I agree with your take that CAPs are basically antithetical to typical western "gear philosophy" but for different reasons. Basically, CAPs - in their trauma reduction capacity - operate on the assumption you will probably be shot at some point, so it's essential that you can stay in the game, hopefully with the rounds hitting only the plate, with minimal injury. Western philosophy, IMO, is that the plate is the last line of defense and various other factors, elements, and assets should be in play so you DON'T get shot. Detect the enemy first and kill them before they see you. Destroy their artillery before it has an opportunity.
>>64459093
Hesco T212s in a Slickster or similar carrier. If you need a cheap low-vis carrier Chinese guys like Shekkin can deal. No dice against .308 or 7.62x54R but it'll eat 5.56 including A1 and basic non-API 7.62x39 just fine. A little more scratch and you got L211s which add BZ API and 7.62x54R LPS, but not 7.62x51mm M80 without going over 44mm BFD.
>>64459178
Russian plates need a CAP panel. Are you using CAPs with your BR4s? If not they'll still work but BFD will run way over GOST.

>>64459484
> Western philosophy
It's specifically the US overmatch doctrine: never get into a fight you aren't sure you can steamroll through. Since "winning the cold war" (kek), US military overspecialized into ridiculously one-sided occupation\police operations. Three decades of those completely degraded both the morale of the force and the populace it recruits from and its doctrine and capability re: (near)peer conflict. RF barely avoided getting dragged down into the same hole with all the border\separatist regional conflicts we had in the 90s-00s, but some of the big army doctrine remained intact and served as a base for development of new stuff during the long Novorossian War.
The assumption that you can forego armor because you'll destroy the enemy's strike capability is extremely vain. It bears out when it's career special forces kicking down mud hut doors in the dead of night, not when you arrive to an actual battlefield. In high-intensity conflict with artillery, air support and strike drones, you WILL get hit by frag more than once, and you're supposed to survive that and keep going.

>Russian plates need a CAP panel.
Yes, basically. The GOST testing protocol is aimed at testing the "armor system" as it's going to be issued and worn, not separate components.
So, for example, Br4 rated GI plates like Granit or SShTF installed in an appropriate carrier like picrel Techincom Operator-5 (aka 6b45 Ratnik), with included C2-rated frag packets and CAPs would completely satify both penetration and BFD criteria and be certified. On its own, the GI plate would satisfy the non-penetration requirement (as they've been repeatedly shown to), but not necessarily the BFD limit.
However, if one's running a slick, especially concealed, it's usually with commercial standalone plates that, on their own, satisfy all the criteria.

>>64459650
>However, if one's running a slick, especially concealed, it's usually with commercial standalone plates that, on their own, satisfy all the criteria.
Tencate has a couple plates now which incorporate a ribbed-style CAP onto the back of the plate itself. This is half ventilation purposes and half trauma reduction, but it goes to show the principal is sound. Tencate is the most reputable major armor company. The only big time operation in the US market with zero recalls or NIJ suspensions.
What's your take on the revised GOST 50774-95's BR6 rating? 3x 12.7x108mm B-32 API is a tall order. The Atlas plates rated to that years ago didn't pass muster.

>>64459663
>principal
meant principle, derp. In other news, Hesco now has three VPAM-rated plates. 4V006, 4V007, and 8V007. The 8V007 in particular is interesting because it's essentially a Euro 3810. Looks like they're gonna try to gun with Tencate and Mehler Vario on their home turf.

>>64459650
what are those little roll things near the shoulders? they look like twinkies

>>64459703
I forget the prpoer name but they're there to help keep the rifle on your shoulder instead of slipping off

>>64459726
ahhhh that makes sense, i was thinking they were to keep backpack straps from sliding off but rifle stock makes more sense.

>>64459663
> incorporate a ribbed-style CAP onto the back of the plate itself
Sounds retarded, desu. Introducing carrier compatibility problems and\or sacrificing thickness for marginal improvements in comfort. Most carriers aren't made out of any kind of breathable material, so the notional cooling channels are lost inside the cordura bag. CAPs by definition should be the layer closest to the body, and they're a wear\hygiene item, while plates are supposed to be sealed and left alone. You can just run low-profile CAPs like Ars Arma HEXS or even a set of Crye AVS mini-pads for a slimmer setup.

>Br6
It's impractical, that's why nobody's trying to mass-produce Br6 plates. ATLAS prototypes proved that a Br6 standalone plate CAN be done, but the only remotely relevant threat in modern or near-future infantry combat is *maybe* 6.8FURY tungsten AP rounds that are supposed to exist but nobody have seen yet. And it came out to 3,2kg\plate. ATLAS has since dropped out of the plate market entirely and only ships helmets.

Again, the doctrinal difference shows itself: in actual theater, frag from artillery and drones is the primary threat, and many soldiers in non-assault roles forego the rifle-rated plates altogether, opting for Br3 UHMWPE plates and more C2-rated coverage with add-on modules.
Even looking at KBS Strelok: sure, it has StkSS-compatible internal frame in the vest and belt to support heavy Br5 plates, but it also includes C2-rated arm bracers, "panties" and hip guards, in addition to now-standard collar, pauldrons, dick flap and ass pad. That's way more frag protection than any non-specialist armor kit currently issued anywhere.

>>64459787
The Tencate CAP-backers are much thinner than Russian CAPs. The whole system is still under an inch. It won't work nearly as well as a full CAP setup, of course. More like standoff distance.
Did you ever come across proof of the Atlas plates working? Ukrainian outfit Hyperion had a stronger .50 cal plate called the TITAN-6 that turned out to be bullshit.

>>64459924
Back when ATLAS sold plates, they sold out their experimental batch of Br6 plates (for 30k rub. apiece) and posted a lab test certificate to the product page on VK Market which specified that plates were shot with 12.7*108mm B-32 (steel-core API) rounds out of ASVK and survived 3 hits. IDK if any visual proof was posted, but authorized lab testing is usually pretty legit.

>>64459963
This is Hyperion-tier fuckery and BS. 10x12" plates are not surviving three shots of 12.7mm AP. Either there was some mistake, or they were banking on nobody being able to test them.

>>64460464
I have to agree. 7.04lb for a 3x 12.7x108mm API plate doesn't math, especially when you factor in GOST's reduced BFD requirements. The Adept Colossus Heavy would fail these requirements and it is over 9lb and almost 1.5" thick.
Anyways, I just went through the archive and found a video from 2023 where they absolutely do NOT perform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv3LHkOt3wQ
So they most certainly did not pass muster. Unfortunate.

>>64460701
At muzzle velocity, or near muzzle velocity, it's obviously bullshit and won't stop even one round. And of course the video makes it look like plain fraud.
But is it possible that it's like the ADVAP and tested at a "reasonable" standoff for a machinegun or sniper round of that size, like 800-1200 yards? Even that is REALLY doubtful, IMO

>>64460701
At muzzle velocity, or near muzzle velocity, it's obviously bullshit and won't stop even one round. And of course the video makes it look like plain fraud.
But is it possible that it's like the SARVIP and tested at a "reasonable" standoff for a machinegun or sniper round of that size, like 800-1200 yards? Even that is REALLY doubtful, IMO

>>64460738
It's GOST-BR6, so IIRC mandated standoff is 50 meters. The plates in the video look like a SiC tile array backed with PE (likely chinese at that) and totally inadequate adhesive. Plates of this caliber need to be using B4C tile array, a very substantial crack arresting solution, and much better adhesive / backing than this. The weight is the most suspect. It's too thick relative to its weight and that means relative majority PE in a 7lb solution, so the strike face alone is also insufficient for B-32 API.
I'm gonna assume the test report >>64459963 mentioned was forged.

>>64457431
200 bucks for rebranded chinesium? yeesh.

>>64460781
That's retarded. Has there EVER been a plate from Russia or Ukraine that has met claims?
Also, lol at 50m standoff for 12.7x108mm API. That's like ISIS execution video tier. SARVIP 800m is actually sort of meaningful.

>>64460997
Both the Ukrainian and Russian armor industries are twice as shady as the US market. Genuine "Granit" plates do perform as long as you get real ones and not cardboard, but that's pretty elementary shit. Rule of thumb for everywhere is that if a a company comes out of nowhere making big promises (Hyperion, Atlas) and no other company can match those feats, something is off and caution needs to be exercised. Russia / Ukraine is no stranger to this. Remember those 8lb (?) Schelkovo 7N37-stopping plates?
>SARVIP standoff
The Adept Colossus allegedly stops M33 FMJ at 500 meters, but with no NIJ certs and only a handful of reports and youtube vids, I'm still holding Adept to the above rule. I mean, after all this time, where are other companies' SiC-TiB2 strike faces? Why is Tencate and Hesco and LTC not exploiting this, even when Tencate is still failing to deliver a VTP XSAPI that could benefit from it? Armor's shady man.

>>64460701
Oh, thanks, I've missed it back when it was released.
This video is probably why ATLAS dropped the plates entirely, lol.

Anyway, Br6 plates are pointless and they shouldn't have bothered. Meanwhile, Techincom and SShTF and other GI vendors ramped up production and nowadays, honest, tested Br4 and Br5 plates are freely available at MSRP.

>>64457989
LVS on the otherhand is magic, like if you want a truly invisible setup you can get an LVS+Plates under a baggy sweatshirt easily
>>64458032
For attaching pouches? No
For attaching random other shit? yeah works okay
>>64459204
Juicebox

>>64459703
Jet packs.

>>64458704
>Heed my words.
>Avoid goretex.
Why?

On the topic of armor, can soft armor inserts act also as trauma inserts to soften the impact of a round?

I've got an old SF mini scout light sitting around. Should I put it on my new helmet for night use along with PVS14? What's the head to use?

>>64461407
Yes, and they ought to be quite good at it. 0.2" soft armor is probably better than a 0.2" pad. But 0.5"+ pad is gonna be better than 0.2" soft armor.

>>64461301
Doesn’t work well in boots. In summer you feet will get hot. In winter your feet will sweat. Neither is ideal. Goretex has some niche uses in other clothing articles but overall it kinda sucks.

>>64461090
I can see a niche use case for BR6 if there's ever a shift back to a Troubles-style sniper insurgency. That's when and where .50 caliber rated Ceradynes showed up in the 1990s. Static checkpoint guards. The other use case is for helicopter pilots, which is where the SARVIP and its successors came in, and maybe exposed turret gunners. This is not a "combat plate" rating at least with current tech. It'll be a decade or so until PE is where it needs to be to make the Atlas plate possible.
BR6 is really like VPAM PM-13 (3x tungsten core Swiss P Penetrator .50 BMG) and PM-14 (3x 14.5x114mm B-32 API). Ratings for either ultra-niche body armor (Tencate allegedly makes some) or more primarily vehicles.
I think BR5 is a fine rating and anything "higher" is just playing games with increasingly more potent tungsten penetrators, and the sword is always a step ahead of the shield. I agree with the assessment that reducing rating somewhat and increasing frag coverage is useful for the Ukraine situation.
On the other hand, is there any proof you've come across regarding newer "second gen" Granits able to resist 7N37?
>>64461407
Absolutely. Whether a trauma pad or soft armor is better depends on composition, but soft armor has the other side effect of increasing the armor's performance as well. Nothing major, it just acts as additional backer and can raise v50s foro standalone plates.
>>64461651
I agree. The thick CAPs do really seem to make a difference. The flimsy shit AR500, RMA, TacScorp peddle out less so.

On another note, since Stealth decided they're premium shit all of a sudden, we need a cheap supplier of IIIA backers.

>>64461706
Depends entirely on where you are using the boots tbqhfamalam
Arid areas with occasional moisture and dew benefit greatly from gortex boots in winter months.
The only true nogo area is places where water routinely passes the midpoint of the boot and it will fill with water.

>>64461820
I'm a swamp thing in the South eastern US, any suggestions?

>>64461895
https://www.goruck.com/collections/macv-series
I wear these in the ozarks 3.5 seasons of the year, been on 4 continents with them. In the dead of winter ill go to a pair of gortex lined scarpa terragtx for the same area of ozarks.

>>64461268
everyone on the internet is shilling onewrap for attaching pouches to belts. why are you against it?
I was gonna use onewrap and just use a little zip tie so the pouch can’t fall off.

The fuddmasters at AR500 Armor have done it again. Introducing the fresh, launched just yesterday, AR500 A4. This replaces their AR500 A3, composed of 1/4" mystery meat steel backed by PE.
SPECS:
>8.4lb base coat, 8.75lb extra coating to maybe avoid spalling.
>0.31" thick base, 0.56" thick with extra EXTREME TRUCK BED LINER
>AR600-TITANIUM ALLOY
>RATED FOR M193 at 3,250ft/s and... 7.62x51mm M80A1 at 2,800ft/s.
>plz ignore the absence of M855A1
>PRICE: $199.99 for base, $250 for extra coating.
Rating for M80A1 but not M855A1 is a cute trick. M855A1, with a similar EPR design, has a much higher muzzle velocity and can actually capitalize against velocity-weak steel armor much better than M80A1. Its penetrator is much better than regular M855.
Like AR500'S prior "premium" products, I can't figure a use for this. With the extra coating, which is essential, you're a pound heavier than a Level IV, multi-curve Hesco 4403 and actually somewhat more expensive.
https://www.ar500armor.com/products/a4-level-iii-alloy-body-armor/

>>64462854
The M80A1 core is also much softer. Was discussed on some arfcom thread:
> https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7-62-NATO--M80A1-Review/16-788498/
8.75 pounds and won't stop M855A1 or any real AP is RETARDED.

>>64461599
Bump

>>64462940
Great point about the core hardness. Like the A3 this will probably be discontinued in a few months. AR500's in an awkward spot. They've got TacScorp stealing their poverty fudds and any attempt to move upmarket gets immediately cockblocked by Level IV ceramics that stop more, weigh less, and in this case cost less.
>any real AP
Level IV steel plates are historically over 12lb, so steel is at the end of its rope UNLESS, and this is a major hail mary if it is what AR500 is banking on, the NIJ .07 drop test proves to be so deficient that new ceramics are 4SAS4-level fragile and still get certified next year. That could cause a resurgence of steel similar to how steel was at its height in the 0101.02-0101.04 period.

>>64462978
It can't be upmarket if it weighs nearly 9 pounds. Nobody's going to be dumb enough to buy this, right?!

>>64463024
It is upmarket because Level III steel plates are traditionally under $200/set! This is $400-500/set! Highcom's AR500 was on a special for, what, $65 a plate?
>Nobody's going to be dumb enough to buy this, right?!
There is an impressive number of people who have the OPSEC to not talk about their armor but simultaneously got swindled by steel plates or the shittiest Chinese white label. It'll sell but not well, again, unless .07 ceramics totally shit the bed when dropped. The 4SAS4 didn't give AR500 a break so IMO it'll take someone dying because their ceramic failed to give steel that kind of boost.

How do you guys carry in the winter? Same as usual? I appendix carry but I think it might be hard to draw if it's beneath a few layers. Thinking about going back to waist or unironically getting a shoulder holster

Open carry, A.L.I.C.E. rig looks pretty cool.

>>64463429
>A.L.I.C.E. rig looks pretty cool.
yeah

>>64463438
The woodland looks goodland.

capes are back boys

>>64461799
>Ratings for either ultra-niche body armor or more primarily vehicles.
Absolutely. There are actually 4 separate GOST standards for body armor, armored cars, bank vaults and armored glass, all using the same threat scale. Br6 is often put on "body armor" lists, but in practice it's a mid-high range armored car spec.

>Granits able to resist 7N37
I was out of the info space for a while, this is new to me. I need to lurk moar. If true, that's a "special threat" rating somewhere inb2n Br5 and Br6.
https://youtu.be/pi53Iu1UaU8?t=6074
Here's a vid of Horse and Orengun shooting a bunch of Br5 rated plates with "7n37-equivalent" handloads, with various results.
tl;dr only Atlant and Schelkovo Br5-rated plates survived, and barely so, without backer and CAPs the BFD would be unacceptable. 7n37 is srs bzns.

>>64461081
I think the problem is actually with hype peddlers on the internets. Techincom and SShTF are dedicated mil contractors who don't even sell, much less advertise, to civilians or to channels visible to civilians. Whatever claims you see about their products are produced by people that are, at best, dishonest commercial resellers, if not outright fake peddlers or info-tainment hype men. Commercial vendors, like Atlant, are much more public about their product, but they accept that if they want to compete with certified, tested and pedigreed GI stuff, the burden of proof is on them, and they collaborate eagerly with independent testing.
In general, civilian participation in and around defense industry is still a pretty new concept in Russia, and not everyone has adapted to it. This leaves the opening for various sorts of bullshit artists. And y'all are looking at it through a muddy lens of language and cultural barrier.

Whats the meta for babys first drone?

>>64464236
>650$ for a blanket
why is the gun industry like this?

>>64464629
Because "gun people" are gullible idiots with more money than sense. It's easy to convince them to throw their money away on crap.
>here, spend $650 on a piece of camo cloth impregnated with ultra toxic PFAS(TM), it's rain gear, shelter, and somehow a sleeping bag!
Go to any gun show and watch people throw money away on trump/spartan/moron abe edition decorated guns and magazines. It's clear that this is a segment of the population with money ripe for the taking.

>>64464606
DJI Mini or equivalent. Anything smaller is a toy, anything larger will make you very sad when you inevitably crash & lose it in the field. It's small enough that you can pack the entire kit into a mid-sized fanny pack, but still has enough range and resolution to do tactical-scale recon.
When you get the hang of it, upgrade to Mavic Enterprise or some other thermal camera drone.

>>64464606
>>64464716
Don't buy that spyware geofenced consoomer slop. Learn how to build and fly hobbyist grade FPV quadcopters. Far more rewarding.

>>64464629
Damn, that nigga FAT. WTF?! $650 for a blanket and he can't even hire a model who doesn't look like shit?

>>64464724
But he's so OPERATOR, look at his COMMS and his LASER RANGEFINDER and OMG a SUPPRESSOR

>>64464723
You don't need to buy *specifically* DJI products. The space is saturated with alternatives. And you're definitely not required to use anally backdoored vendor firmware on whatever you run. If you're that kinda guy, you can spring for a Parrot Anafi or some other pretentious "mil-spec" alternative.

FPVs are their own class of fun, but for /k/ purposes, getting a small camera drone for recon is a bit more relevant than diving into the rabbit hole of FPV engineering and piloting.

Would you buy, anon?

>>64464236
Huh, that's decent looking actually.

>>64464723
Yeah, and build your own PC and install Ubuntu like a real man.

>>64464817
idiotic comparison. enjoy your geofenced killswitched garbage that can't even break 50mph

>>64464817
>Ubuntu
>real man
Real men install Debian onto "cyberdecks" cludged together from devboards and spare parts.

Srsly tho, being unable to build your own PC and run something as pedestrian as Ubuntu on it in the year of our lord 2000+25 automatically disqualifies you from any comms or drone roles. You should have basic proficiency with consumer technology before trying to operate specialized equipment.

>>64464723
I just want to buy the shit and learn to use it bro

>>64464838
>You should have basic proficiency with consumer technology
I have a cell phone, thank you. And a TV with wifi or some shit, it's very high tech stuff.

>>64464629
I'd rather buy the Aliexpress multicam black pimp coat

>>64464838
temu sandevistan when

>>64464860
As soon as some autistic white guy develops it and publishes all of the schematics under MIT license, not sooner.

>>64464853
With an attitude like that trying to get into tactical drone use is just a waste of money and time.

>>64464606
DJI Mavic 1 you blow your way into
>>64464716
Dumb
>>64464723
>>64464752
>Thinking about eating a steak for dinner
>Wtf you arent free grazing the grassfed and finished highland cattle on your own land? This is slop!
Actually dogshit advice
gb2/g/

>>64464941
>gb2/g/
Building and flying hobby grade quadcopters is on /diy/ not /g/ you newfag.

>>64464947
Freetard attitude on someone who is clearly new to the hobby is a /g/ autistic behavior.
But then again
>Assembling OS projects
>Calling it /diy/
Sure is /diy/ in here

>>64464955
I don't use linux or /g/ you fucking retard, you just recommended a consoomer drone that is objectively SHIT for any /k/ related usage that isn't filming for youtube. This entire fucking thread is larping and prepping and you're suggesting some geofenced killswitched faggy garbage that is useless for any larping/prepping/tacticool use unlike a DIY build quadcopter that you can operate anywhere any time as long as you aren't being jammed, and even then you can get fiber optics online. Just admit you fucked up, some dji or dji knockoff is not the right "drone" for /k/ related use. A race quad is a better weapon, a larger quad with a gimbal and HD video out is a better observation platform. Go gunsoom more.

>>64464970
Based droning kruger anon showing up to tell me how little he knows about drones.
Specifically called out a DJI mavic 1 you can easily defeat geo fencing, aeroscope(opendroneid) and other telemetry on it while having a platform you can actually work as a team vs having an incredibly siloed specific piece of kit.
>No but you will get raped to death because you just will
Ima be real with you chief, the adversaries capable of dealing with a hacked mavic will be able to deal with your off the shelf ELRS equipped quad just as easily. Probably moreso since you arent hiding inside the correct end of the ISM band.
>Race quad
Long range*
>Work as long as you arent being jammed
Cool, so will a properly hacked mavic and it will still be leagues easier to use than a FPV or even a homebuilt ardupilot rig
>DJ knockoff
Glad I suggested only a DJI Mavic 1 for the quite literal question of "babys first drone" not some poorly tuned whoop that anon will yeet into orbit because he doesnt have enough sim time.
>I dont use linux
Gringe and bluepilled

But fuck bro I guess FPV race drones or building a full ardupilot with poshold is "babys frist" right? Retard

>>64464979
Dumbass midwit thinks a race quad can't have 900mhz on it. Fucking dipshit noquads. Stopped reading there

>>64464979
>Properly hacked mavic
Is the classic hacked yet?

>>64465088
>900
That would be the wrong end of the ism band for operations within noise floor.

Keep digging though

>>64465092
Mavic 1 = mavic pro = mavic classic = mavic 1 pro = m1p = a bunch of other ways to spell it out.
They all look the same because they are the same.

>>64465097
Oh then maybe I can. I ended up buying one of these things a few years ago before I knew any better - as with most things.

>>64465114
>Mavic 3 classic
Nah nah, you wont have access to the good firmware on that yet. Barring a trip overseas or your 18X contract you will need to go oldschool

>>64464838
>kludgy pf shit
Just buy Apple and HK.

>>64464838
>Ubuntu
I don't even know what that is

>>64464417
>Here's a vid of Horse and Orengun shooting a bunch of Br5 rated plates with "7n37-equivalent" handloads, with various results.
Very interesting. I'm intrigued as to how exactly some of these off-the-shelf BR5 plates are eating 7N37, which has a reputation for being an XSAPI-killer and did successfully best the Adept Colossus - which is the strongest publicly-available Level IV plate in the CONUS or Euro markets, in the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylO7at_L_ts
I looked up the Atlant plate and it appears to be 2.7kg for a plate measuring 10x12.8", or 5.94lb. The Colossus weighs in at 8.45lb for a 10.5x13.125 inch large, but per Buff's measurements in pic related the sizing is nominal (great!) and actual measured is 9.75x11.625". If we assume the plates are cut the same way, adjusting to 10x12 for both comes out to 5.56lb for the Atlant and 8.94lb for the Colossus. The Atlant easily checks out for multi-hit B-32 API protection. However, this is freakishly fucking overweight versus the Colossus' advertised 10x12 weight of 6.5lb and 8.1lb for 10.25x13 large, but that's a different conversation.
The point still stands that the Atlant greatly outperforms the Colossus, by stopping 7N37, in spite of weighing a LOT less and not using novel materials such as TiB2-SiC hybrid ceramic. I have three theories to consider:
1. The 7N37 tested in your video wasn't actually 7N37 (this is most likely - it could be like BZ API production and another factory makes inferior "7N37" while Buff got the real deal). OR
2. The 7N37 in your video was legit, but is going much slower than the 2,700ft/s which pierced the Colossus. OR
3. Buff was supplied the newer, 2017-era 7N37M and thought it was regular 7N37 (most people don't know 7N37M is a thing), so the Colossus went up against a heavily-improved penetrator and regular 7N37 doesn't live up to the legend.

This has been a good convo, let me know your thoughts. Also can someone double check my math on the Colossus?

>>64444431 (OP)
Can someone give me link to wiki or last archived /nvg/ please? I can't find it

>64465199
Also forgot to mention that Buff displays the results table for the Colossus in this vid twice. First is at 3:57 - measured size is 10.5x13.125 versus nominal 10.25x13 - then the final results are at 23:49, nominal 10.25x13 versus measured 9.75x11.625. The first (3:57) table matches the numbers on the plate's cover better but we know from the RMA 1192 video that Buff's "drawn weights" aren't always accurate (6lb 3oz drawn, 6lb 4oz actual). Both RMA 1192s were precisely the same weight and thickness but it turns out the drawn weight (3oz) was wrong and the actual is 4oz. Would be a little odd for all the plates he got to be exactly the same. Would be a little stranger for the given weight to then be wrong. Anyways the question here is which table is accurate and which one is the mistake. In that same RMA 1192 video, Buff got plates that were 10oz heavier than advertised so he's no stranger to getting plates with "variances."
Regardless of the Colossus being overweight or not, the Atlant still (allegedly) outperformed it. I find that suspect but maybe I'm missing something.

>>64465216
Last /nvg/ here.
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64119048/#64119048

>>64465255
>https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64119048/#64119048
Ty much

>>64465199
>>64465244
>most people don't know 7N37M is a thing
Yeah, and that includes me and all the Russian-language sources I've checked today. The only English mentions are vidya lore wikis.
7n37 is already at the upper edge of what's economically and technically feasible in mass-produced MMG\DMR ammo, and the real snipers are shooting .338 LM handloads anyways, so there's not much more reason for it to exist than Br6 plates. I'll ask around when I'm in contact with the boys if they've had some "improvements" or variance in their already rare and expensive sniper AP ammo.

Atlant Br5 plates in question run from 2.6 to 3.5kg per plate depending on the size, stated composition is SiC+UHMWPE, nothing fancy. Yet, an already shot-up plate tanked a hit from *notional* 7n37, and a similarly compromised Schelkovo plate performed the same. SShTF plates are well-known for performing above&beyond spec, check out bottom right plate in picrel - that's total BFD after 12 (!) hits of 7-BZ-3 (7.62*54R B-32 API). But for Atlant, an open reseller of OEM Chinesium, that seems extremely lucky.

In conclusion, I'm leaning towards the option 1. Orengun's handloads, while spicy enough to clearly defeat some certified Br5 plates, don't actually measure up to real, GRAU-spec 7n73 in either energy or bullet construction. As they said themselves at the start of video segment, that test was totally ad-hoc and beyond any reasonable expectation of accuracy. Basically, they did it for content. Buffman is much more technical and exacting with his testing, and obviously has better budget.

>>64465121
>>64465137
As I've said before, disqualified, stick to vidya and flat range.

>>64465395
>Yeah, and that includes me and all the Russian-language sources I've checked today. The only English mentions are vidya lore wikis.
I recall it came up in some 2017-2019 era guns.ru discussions but I'd have to dig for the links. Always possible it's like B-32M or 7N24M and post facto it's considered the same as the original.
>7n37 is already at the upper edge of what's economically and technically feasible in mass-produced MMG\DMR ammo
It's a large core design and accordingly has machining costs, but that begs the question of what 7N51 is then. That's a larger core design that only popped up very recently.
>so there's not much more reason for it to exist than Br6 plates
Same reason for 7N37 to exist, except it does the same job 7N37 does better - whether that be against tougher armor or just at greater distance. In 2015-2016 a bunch of Ukrainian scam artists called Hyperion unveiled a multi-hit 7N37-stopper called the ULTRA-6 plate, and 7N37M was allegedly developed or issued in 2017 so that could have been preemptive before they knew Hyperion was BS. Whatever advances are made in body armor can be adapted to vehicle armor too.
>SShtf plate
Very impressive. Was that with or without a CAP?
>Atlant and Option #1
I agree, Buffman probably shot actual 7N37 at the Colossus and the handloads were probably not up to snuff if Chinesium is able to eat them.
>Buffman is much more technical and exacting with his testing
Which makes it all the worse when his testing leaves glaring questions, as it did with the new 1165 (can't drop it!), 4SAS4 (we don't know why it failed... he said), 1192 (10oz overweight and 0.19" thicker than advertised is normal variance - plz ignore why both plates are exactly the same) and now the Colossus having weird weights and possible major nominal sizing concerns.

Maybe we need a Russian armor infographic for if and when the war ends and these options open up. I'm seeing some sketchy shit but also some promise.

>>64465452
>I recall it came up in some 2017-2019 era guns.ru discussions but I'd have to dig for the links. Always possible it's like B-32M or 7N24M and post facto it's considered the same as the original.
Or it could be some chairborne fuddlore, there's a lot of that kicking around guns.ru forums.

>It's a large core design and accordingly has machining costs, but that begs the question of what 7N51 is then. That's a larger core design that only popped up very recently.
Again, first time I'm hearing about it. Some proofs plz?

>In 2015-2016 a bunch of Ukrainian scam artists called Hyperion unveiled a multi-hit 7N37-stopper called the ULTRA-6 plate, and 7N37M was allegedly developed or issued in 2017 so that could have been preemptive before they knew Hyperion was BS.
Sadly, that's more foresight that I can credibly ascribe to Shoigu-era MoD.
>Whatever advances are made in body armor can be adapted to vehicle armor too.
No, not really. Relaxed weight limits + multi-hit demand is a radically different set of constraints. Haven't seen a single vehicle with SiC tiles yet.

>Very impressive. Was that with or without a CAP?
Probably without, although seeing how the entire paint layer rubbed off makes me assume it was set against firm backer, as is usual in solo plate tests. Pic related.

>Maybe we need a Russian armor infographic for if and when the war ends and these options open up. I'm seeing some sketchy shit but also some promise.
Unfortunately, the war is unlikely to end anytime soon. Cockhols are being cockhols, and there's already two conga lines of failstates lining up for the next SMO, in the north-west and south-east respectively.
However, if my friend's plan procs success, we may start shipping care packages for American Freedom Fighters. Stay tuned :3:

>>64465199
> The Colossus weighs in at 8.45lb for a 10.5x13.125 inch large, but per Buff's measurements in pic related the sizing is nominal (great!) and actual measured is 9.75x11.625".
I've checked this and that seems like a copypasta mistake in the table.
The measurements are drawn on the plate in the video and they're 10.5x13.15". Then if you compare it to the 10.25x12.25" Protech X-Cal and the 9.5x11.4" 4SAS4, over the same clay drop-test briefcase, the Colossus Size L is much larger than the 4SAS4 and taller and slightly wider than the X-Cal. (The scale in the screenshots is messed up. Look at the plates vs. visible clay and the size of the briefcase behind them.)
> 7N37M
I don't think this is it. It's 100x likely that the "surrogate" was botched. It's gotta be super tough, maybe impossible, to homebrew a surrogate for a really advanced tungsten round like that.

>>64465603
Thanks! I was concerned there was some Highcom or RMA-style sleight of hand going on with the Colossus there. Of course there's still some nominalness going about but nothing too severe if we're using the other weights. 0.35lb or so overweight, 0.05 thinner than advertised. That's not indicative of shenanigans like the RMA 1192, esp since the Colossus repeats its prior defeat by 7.92 SmKH. Looks like even plates rated for "next gen" AP threats fold to WW2 era AP ammo, lol.
>7N37M
That makes all against that theory and seemingly in favor of #1. Sad we have to scrutinize this shit.

God AI is so fucking gay, kys.

Should I mount a Surefire mini scout light I have to my helmet?

>>64465759
A vampire is nice to have up there sometimes
I enjoy clearing malfunctions with one umbrella lighting rooms.
For exterior shit its kinda stupid.

>>64465575
>Or it could be some chairborne fuddlore, there's a lot of that kicking around guns.ru forums.
True, but the Russian MIC isn't exactly transparent and it's feasible given the circumstances they would try to keep 7N37M a secret. Word of 7N37 spread like wildfire among Ukraine in 2014 - courtesy of cartridge collectors like wolfgangross and Ukrainian media. This ended up giving it a propaganda effect, so 7N37 itself has this sort of "legend" that I don't think any other AP load ever had - besides meme fuddlore like KTWs and the erroneous media scare around Black Talons. It's feasible plates rated to beat 7N37 do exist, after all it's been more than a decade, so if there's a killer beyond that level I'd keep it secret.
>Again, first time I'm hearing about it. Some proofs plz?
Sure thing, see pic related for a cutaway.
>Sadly, that's more foresight that I can credibly ascribe to Shoigu-era MoD
True, but it's an easy sell. I mean, if tungsten-core 9x19mm 7N31M is a thing, why not an improved 7N37?
>No, not really. Relaxed weight limits + multi-hit demand is a radically different set of constraints.
I was more referencing materials. The Israelis developed a technology called "LIBA" (Light Improved Ballistic Armor) that's basically ceramic pellets encased in a composite matrix with a PE backer. It comes in both Aluminum Oxide and SiC versions. It was first developed for body armor purposes in '98 but wound up armoring vehicles like US Strykers. Multi-hit capacity is extreme (15+ for a 10x12 Level IV) and weight isn't too punishing, but it has a slight "gap" problem between pellets in the OG versions.
>as is usual in solo plate tests. Pic related.
I see one plate ate quite a few 5.45x39 7N39 (your pic, upper left). I'm seeing a lot of plates actually handle that one just fine. You think it's a core mass problem or is it just not designed to handle BR5?
>we may start shipping care packages for American Freedom Fighters
On dirt bikes or golf carts?

With a PAGST helmet, am I pretty much stuck with in-ear hearing protection?

>>64465829
Depends on helmet size but you might be able to sneak neckband over-ear.

>>64465880
The PASGTs have webbing suspensions. Neckbands probably won't work well.

>>64465829
probably

>>64465829
If you get a size up, gut it and put pads in it you may be able to get something to work, but it would be suboptimal. Just get an ACH.

>>64465603
>>64465646
Glad we cleared that up.

>>64465811
>Russian MIC isn't exactly transparent
True, it's often intentionally opaque to a counterproductive extent.

>pic related
That's cool, thanks. Yeah, that looks like one hell of a slug.

>tungsten-core 9x19mm 7N31M is a thing
9mm PBP exists specifically because PP2000 was a PDW project in the vein of P90 and MP7, with GSh-18 as companion pistol. It's still billed as such on RosOboronExport site. Defeating (then-)current issue body armor was a core requirement, but the developers didn't have time or resources to invest into developing a whole new cartridge caliber and didn't want to export secret squirrel 9*21 ammo, so they just overbuilt 9*19 to hell, way beyond any reasonable relation to SAAMI spec. 7n21\31 are known to shatter Glock frames with very low round counts, a handful of mags basically.
>why not an improved 7N37?
Why not, indeed. Just enlarging the penetrator and not telling anyone except end-users about it is pretty on-brand for (post-)soviet MIC. The new and improved post-'23 AK-12 is still an AK-12, for example, even though it's about half parts-compatible with the previous iteration.

>Israelis developed a technology called "LIBA"
If there's anything you can trust the jews on, it's inventing shit to cover or save their own asses.

>one plate ate quite a few 5.45x39 7N39
Well, yeah, it's not really supposed to defeat Br5 or equivalent armor, no 5.45 cartridges are expected to do that. It obviously lacks mass, and similarly enlarging the penetrator would run into pressure\velocity issues, I guess. Also, it would be pretty expensive upgrade for an already expensive assault rifle round, where it's harder to justify than for DMR rounds.

>On dirt bikes or golf carts?
Depends on how well the boring of Chukotka-Alaska tunnel goes, maybe by trucks even. How would you like a 14,5" billet AR with 2-stage trigger, adjustable gas block and forged, chromed barrel?

>>64466273
>Glad we cleared that up.
Likewise, otherwise that would have been a tremendous issue. Looks like RMA still takes the cake for the most cooked plates.
>Yeah, that looks like one hell of a slug.
I think it's an analogue to the "post-7N37" stuff the Ukrainian firm Stiletto Systems came up with years ago. They had a 14-gram 7.62x54R BS14 (216gr) long-core design. I don't think there's really too much 7N37-capable "XSAPI++" personal armor out there, I think it's more "kill ESAPI / Level IV and vic armor but with even more standoff than 7N37 can."
>9mm PBP exists specifically because PP2000 was a PDW project in the vein of P90 and MP7
True. 7N31M goes one step further though. Take the steel-core 7N31 (PBP) and give it a VK8 alloy tungsten core like 7N39 / 7N37. https://vpk.name/news/414241_tulskii_broneboinyi.html
It's likely capable of defeating NIJ Level III / RF1 plates made entirely out of UHMWPE even at handgun velocity.
>LIBA
The company that developed it in particular is a Mofet Etzion. The tech was licensed to Tencate and they were flipping "20-hit" M993 rated LIBA plates by 2000. GEN2 LIBA adds an Armox steel intermediate layer so M855 / 7N24 can't sneak between ceramic pellets, but that adds a huge weight penalty. They're tanks though and can withstand dozens of hits. The tech has a lot more utility for shields at that rate than body armor, because if you're eating that many hits to the plate you're eating a lot more elsewhere.
>Well, yeah, it's not really supposed to defeat Br5 or equivalent armor
Funny thing is that a few 5.56 AP loads hype themselves on being able to defeat NIJ Level IV or ESAPI (latter is easier if it's pre-REV. G due to the boron carbide amorphization problem - M995 @ 3,350ft/s is a known ESAPI A-F killer).
>similarly enlarging the penetrator
I liken 7N39 to being the 5.45 equivalent to Nammo AP4 or DM31 5.56 AP. There is room for an AP45 counterpart.

What's your take on .338 7N45?

>64466854
>M855 / 7N24
Typo, meant to say 7N10 here. 7N24 even in its base form with poor penetrator geometry would probably be too much for the Armox layer and UHMWPE to handle. Pic rel is a LIBA plate so you can get a gist of how the layup is. Each white spot is a ceramic pellet. A Russian company called "Bison Vest" sold or maybe still sells LIBA plates. Their website hasn't been updated since 2009 so the jury is out on that one. https://www.bisonvest.com/materials.php

I'm curious as to why Chinese firms with patents on TiB2-SiC ceramic, like Shandong Yasai, haven't licensed the ceramic to Russian companies. It would give an excellent boost.

>>64466854
>I liken 7N39 to being the 5.45 equivalent to Nammo AP4 or DM31 5.56 AP. There is room for an AP45 counterpart.
IIRC the AP45 is similar to the 5.56mm Swiss P AP, and isn't much better than AP4?
> The tech has a lot more utility for shields at that rate than body armor, because if you're eating that many hits to the plate you're eating a lot more elsewhere.
I mean, if the shield is on wheels, sure. Lightest armored vehicle.

>>64466942
Nammo makes it easy by calling their 5.56 / 7.62x51 ammo by its weight in grams. M995 is AP3, 3.4-gram. AP4 is 4-gram and 62gr, core weight 38.6gr, AP45 is 4.5-gram (69gr).
RUAG's 5.56x45mm AP TC (Swiss P) is 62gr and therefore equivalent to AP4. AP45 claims better at-range performance. On an extreme end, Stiletto Systems has a 5.56 BS.45-5 with a 5-gram (78gr) projectile. Similar weight to Mk262.
https://www.stiletto.uk.com/home/portfolio/ammunition-technology/556x45/
7N39 is 61.7gr, so it's again directly analogous to AP4 / DM31. Since accurized steel core 5.45 is a thing (7N40) I could see them making a tungsten core version of that - similar to the relationship between steel core 7N45 and apparently a new tungsten AP .338 7N49. I imagine that's quite the performer.
>I mean, if the shield is on wheels, sure. Lightest armored vehicle.
Yeah, shields above M855A1 / 7N10M protection are almost always wheeled. Double limitation - backer technology isn't there yet and using B4C in a shield is cost-prohibitive.
>pic unrelated, new 3.5lb standalone M855A1 / M80 stopper called the LSAPI.
>pic unrelated, just AR500 armor being a dunce

>>64466942
>64466976
I'm occasionally an idiot and changed my mind last second on my unrelated picture choice. LSAPI!

Hey, look at that. Tungsten-core 5.7x28mm.

>>64467100
I wonder who makes these and will they penetrate a light III+/RF2 plate like the LSAPI or 3810...?

>>64468343
Stiletto Systems is the manufacturer. Claimed steel defeat is 5.5mm HB550 (550 Brinell). What's worth noting is that their 9mm slightly outperforms the 5.7x28mm up close, by defeating 6.5mm HB550 at 10 meters. Reportedly the 9x19mm beats Class 4 steel plates under GOST, so it beats 5.45x39mm 7N10 - an M855 analogue. M855's a poor performer against hardened steel and I find the lack of counter-ceramic testing telling.

>Level III Polyethylene: Totally. Both the 9x19mm and 5.7 will kill these.
>Level III Steel - Spartan's Level III AR550 is only 6.35mm thick WITH the base anti-spall coat, so the actual steel is thinner, and the 9x19mm beats 6.5mm HB550 at 10m, so at least several of them.
Now to your question, ceramics are going to depend a lot. 3810 maybe if the velocity can get pumped up by a longer barrel. The 5.7 out of a PS90 could probably do it. The LSAPI is rated ostensibly for M855A1 / BZ API wholesale so I'm thinking no UNLESS the tungsten 9x19mm / 5.7 can capitalize on the boron carbide amorphization problem versus WC penetrators. If so then they've got a legit shot. That depends though.
I'm thinking "M855A1 performance but out of a pistol caliber." They should really test these against ceramics.

Also off of Stiletto's site is this 5.1-gram 5.45x39 AP - this goes a slight kick above AP45 and matches their heavy 5.56 AP. 10mm HB550 at 500 meters claimed for both, which IMO seems rather high. It's only slightly inferior to their 7.62x51mm, which claims to pen the same at 550 meters. .338 Norma raises to 16mm HB550 at 550 meters.

What's the best/cheapest option for concealable armor that'll stand up to a pistol?
Thinking of something I can wear to the gas station after a natural disaster or something without attracting attentiom.

>>64468693
Police surplus Level II vest? As long as it's made after 2008 by a reputable company it'll likely be fine.

>>64444431 (OP)
op that pic is hard as fuck, whered you get it

>>64468634
> 10mm HB550 at 500 meters
Yo this is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
At 500 meters, it's traveling at like 1750-1800 fps. That's a lot slower than their 5.7mm round. The bullet is twice as heavy at 5.1 vs. 2.5 grams, but one of them penetrates 10m of AR550 and the other penetrates 5.5mm?! Even at muzzle velocity something like M993 wouldn't penetrate much more than 10mm.
They're making it up. It's all bullshit. Do those bullets even exist IRL?
I think this is another Hyperion situation bros

>>64468693
>Get 4 of your boys
>Roll up in a 4 wheeled vehicle
>Jump out in multicam and level IV plate carriers
>Grab your snacky and arizona iced tea
>Aura farm
>Dip
>The concealedarmorcel gets mogged while standing in line hoping no one noticed him

>>64469711
>level IV plate carriers
>thinks you can aura farm with only steel core AP protection

Got level 1 and 2 layers according to this. Does anyone have recommendations on cheap level 5 layers?

>>64467100
>600m/s
We need to pump this up. I need at least 3500fps!

>>64469389
You're right to be skeptical. Any new ammo or armor from Ukraine or Russia needs to be taken with a grain of salt. For example I'm already getting the vibe .338 7N49 is gonna be this uber mega armorkiller, but it's probably just like Russian M1154 (ADVAP .338LM). What we need to watch for is a 7N51 long-core counterpart. Honestly ESAPI REV. A at a kilometer is likely doable with that.
The 7.62x51mm Stiletto has a massive advantage on the 5.7 in L/D ratio, core mass, and sectional density. As for M993, a Level IV steel plate is 12.7mm AR500 uncoated and M993 is just way out of spec. I think you need 3/4" to stop it reliably and a 10x12 is gonna be 20lb - in other words stupid but will likely be sold as the AR500 A7 a few years from now.
>They're making it up. It's all bullshit. Do those bullets even exist IRL?
They do. Stiletto has been around since at least 2014. Here's a good older article on them.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/28/7-62mm-advanced-armor-piercing-bullet-unveiled-stiletto-systems/

>>64469886
HV ammo from ghost in the shell coming up hot

FYI, Sierratac has a discount running on the Hesco 4601s. $1,000/set down from $1,150. 6.4lb certified Level IV that also meets Level III requirements and has much better multi-hit than the 4403.
https://sierratac.com/product/hesco-600-series-armor-level-4-stand-alone-plate-4601/

>>64469905
> The 7.62x51mm Stiletto has a massive advantage on the 5.7 in L/D ratio, core mass, and sectional density.
Sure but we're talking about 5.45x39mm and 5.56x45mm vs. 5.7mm. The advantage still exists but it's very small. There's no way they're penetrating 10mm of AR550 at 500 yards. The 5.7mm version isn't even penetrating the lol-tier AR500 A1, which is like 6mm thick.
I don't think that they properly tested the 5.56mm and 5.45mm versions.

>>64470304
Yeah, but that's only a savings of $150, and they're still $600 more than a set of 4403.

>>64470312
Yep. What Hesco is missing is an Alumina-PE Level IV. The 4403 is Alumina-fiberglass, the 4601 is SiC-PE and that's where the huge price increase comes from. Hesco did make a plate like that called the 4K10 (4400 with PE backer) years ago as part of their licensed Mexican lineup (3K00, 3K10, 4K10) but it never went anywhere.
The 4601 is the best-performing white-side Level IV in Hesco's lineup, but it's been around since ~2020 and is overdue for a replacement.
>>64470310
>Sure but we're talking about 5.45x39mm and 5.56x45mm vs. 5.7mm
Ah, thought we were talking about the 7.62x51 since it's only somewhat better.
>There's no way they're penetrating 10mm of AR550 at 500 yards.
Perhaps it's a crappy steel and it "plugs" when faced by a tungsten penetrator. They said HB550 and never specified an alloy. Then again, most domestic steel plate mfg's don't either.
>The 5.7mm version isn't even penetrating the lol-tier AR500 A1, which is like 6mm thick.
7mm with base coat, so realistically 1/4" or maybe a touch less. We don't know if these numbers are v100 or v50, do we?

I think the steel they're using is poor.

Any plastic gear parts you think would be suitable for 3d printing? I'm just looking for ideas. Can be both hard ABS or a soft rubberlike TPU95 or combination of.

>>64464417
>I need to lurk moar. If true, that's a "special threat" rating somewhere inb2n Br5 and Br6.
Backtracking to this post in case you haven't seen these yet. The second-gen Granits I was referencing are these "R-Carbide" versions. Pretty sure that's just SiC. We've got a BR4+ able to eat 5.45x39 7N24 cold and 7.62x54R B-32 API at 100m standoff. 6.27lb.
https://voentursnar.ru/catalog/broneplity/7137/
Then we've got a BR5+ rated to stop 7.62x54R 7N37 cold, .338 Lapua non-AP at 300 meters, and 12.7x108mm B-32 API at 800 meters standoff (this should tell you how asinine a proper BR6 plate would be, lol). 7.59lb. Neither weight is counting soft armor and CAP.
https://voentursnar.ru/catalog/broneplity/7744/
Also we've got some kind of "enhanced CAP" from a company called Capytech. It claims to be significantly more effective than a normal climate panel. Have you heard anything about this?
https://voentursnar.ru/catalog/kap/8290/

>Test results: The tests were conducted at the Rzhev Research Institute of Ballistics (NIISC) using soft ballistic packages with a Br2 protection class. Average behind-armor impact value : Without KAP: 1.98 With an EVA analogue: 1.93 With KAP SARUTESN: 1.76 Also, during the tests, the same point was fired at twice with results of 1.7 - 1.8, confirming the viability after impact. Made in Puccia.

how do you keep your bug out plate carrier?
hanging or just on the floor?
I'm afraid hanging it would eventually wear out the straps cuz of the weight

>>64470981
Why the fuck are you planning to bug out with a plate carrier? You're just going to go walking around for 100 miles wearing it?

>>64471008
yeah

>>64471008
I ruck with it 6 miles a light day.

>>64471019
on a light day*

>>64471008
Can't you take a car when bugging out lol? Not everyone's gonna run off into the woods

I put on my wizard hat and cloak

>>64470304
Are they worth it? I'm a poorfag looking to buy plates soon. Was eyeballing the 4403s since theyre cheaper

>>64471033
https://kruschiki.com/products/camouflage-wizard-hats
https://rnrforge.com/products/tacticloak?variant=43668900118570

>>64471019
Wow, 6 whole miles. That will for sure be far enough away from civilization, if it breaks down.
>>64471032
Yeah, I guess. If you want to run into 100k other people that are trying to bug out in a car.

>>64471042
Pic rel is the 4601's datasheet versus the 4403, along with the Buffman testing results on the 4601. The 4601 can stop six M855A1 versus three for most sizes, along with six 7.62x51mm M80 versus three. It can also stop three 7.62x51mm M61 AP versus just one. It is also lighter, but also considerably thicker due to the amount of PE needed to simultaneously meet both III and IV requirements. Per Hesco's own information, the 4403 would likely lose the NIJ Level III test - a lot of Level IVs do.
The 4601 put on a good show in Buff's test. Simply put, it's a better performer than the 4403.
>But is it worth it?
The money can probably be spent better elsewhere. The value of the 4601 is when you already have other bases covered and need dead nuts reliable midweight Level IV that's actually certified, no strings attached other than it's 1.18" thick.

>>64471072
>Wow, 6 whole miles.
I said on a light day.
And my ruck is 70lbs to 100lbs depending on the exercises we do that day.
And 6 miles is a lot in rural mountain trails.

>>64471103
if it's in the mountains you're probably good. Pic rel is your competition.

>>64471103
>Mountain trails
You're some east coast faggot, aren't you? Those aren't mountains. You're frolicking in the hills, faggot.

I'm going to bug out to the hills

>>64471112
couldn't be farther from the truth
but nice try glownigger

>>64471124
>shit, I'm blown!

>>64471124
The biggest group of losers, are the pnwguerrilla fags. It's literally broke back mountain tier.

>>64471139
yeah staying fit, training with your gear, & knowing your area is cringe since you can't fight the military anyway since they have drones, missiles, & satellites

Are there any dust caps or covers made for the downlead? I don’t want to just leave it exposed

>>64471153
>Yeah bro, we're staying fit and knowing our area
Alright nigga, hit the showers.

>>64471153
train your family

>>64470564
> Then we've got a BR5+ rated to stop 7.62x54R 7N37 cold
I was gonna say that the velocities look low, but 2550 fps is actually right in the middle of the official muzzle velocity range, which can be as low as 2510 fps and still be in spec. How did Buffman get his to 2725 fps or whatever it was?

>>64471194
29" barrel gave it the extra boost to get to 2,714ft/s.

>>64471215
7N51 = longer, slimmer penetrator than the 7N39 blueprint. And is that a lead sheath?
Also what the fuck are the Chinese doing with 6.8x50mm? I thought they had scientifically proven that 5.8mm was the absolutely ideal infantry rifle round for all purposes?

>>64471227
>7N51 = longer, slimmer penetrator than the 7N37 blueprint
Looks like it. 7N37 optimized for standoff performance. Not 100% positive on what the sheath is.
>Also what the fuck are the Chinese doing with 6.8x50mm? I thought they had scientifically proven that 5.8mm was the absolutely ideal infantry rifle round for all purposes?
Rumor has it they're using that pic related 6.8x50mm tungsten AP to proxy for American XM1184 in future armor development.

>>64471194
>>64471215
On second pass of the 7N37 picture it looks like it also has the same "lead jacket" (right side, item 2). I suppose 7N51 is literally just 7N37 but longer.

>>64471227
Made a quick internet image collage of the new Chinese 6.8x50mm with its 5.8x42mm brother on the left side, with the right side being the older 5.8x42mm DVC-12 tungsten-core AP.

>>64471231
Isn't the rumor that XM1184 looks like an EPR round but with a tungsten arrowhead? Maybe the Chinese want to cover their bases vs. other possible designs?
>>64471238
Yeah, good catch. Sure looks that way now. 7N37 is already heavy and slow, though. Longer bullet in lead sheath = 200gr? I can see that having good velocity retention and terminal performance with the lead sheath, I guess.

>>64471260
>Isn't the rumor that XM1184 looks like an EPR round but with a tungsten arrowhead?
It's allegedly just XM1186 GP but with the steel EPR penetrator swapped for tungsten. This is identical to the relationship between M80A1 as the EPR and M1158 as the new AP.
>Maybe the Chinese want to cover their bases vs. other possible designs?
I think the new 6.8 bears a passing resemblance to 7N51, so I'm curious if Russia is allowing China to copy its notes from experiences in Ukraine. After all, 7N37 basically is a purpose-designed XSAPI-buster (and it does do that since it killed an Adept Colossus fine) and 7N51 moreso, so that's exactly the kind of intel China could use - especially if they need to up their own armor to account for western companies progressing to heavy-core counter-ceramic designs of their own. Rounds like AP 10, AP 11 LR, and DM151 all have larger cores than M993. Trading velocity is seemingly fine if it means better counter-ceramic performance.
>Longer bullet in lead sheath = 200gr? I can see that having good velocity retention and terminal performance with the lead sheath, I guess.
I think the idea is literally just 7N37 but increase the L/D ratio and sectional density. I'm seeing on some old wikis that Stiletto Systems had a 14-gram 7.62x54R AP called BS14, and that's 216gr. Could be 7N51 is just a copycat of that. It's worth noting that Stiletto loads their ammo exceptionally hot so 7N51 might be outperformed by this BS14.
I can see the need for Stiletto's real heavy shit given that "R-Carbide" heavyweight Granits can eat 7N37 (and thus, likely, Stiletto's older BS12 design). I'm curious as to which units are actually getting these 7N37 plates given the questionable percentage of quality armor on the Russian side.

Also this is a blast from the past, but Liberty Ammunition did develop a tungsten 110gr (!) 5.56 load around 2012.
>https://web.archive.org/web/20120605090500/http://www.libertyammunition.com/products/liberty-ammunition-5-56x-45mm/
Also a tungsten 360gr .338 Lapua "T3" - that must have been something.

Trying to decide between a split rig, and a more taps style with the continuous front piece. The pro the taps style, is that I can fit 4 more mags, bringing the total up to 16. The pro of the split rig, is that it's easier to undo if I need to lay down. They both have the same amount of molle space, so it really comes down to just that one difference. Any insight?

>>64472256
16 mags on a chest rig is mind-bendingly retarded. The absolute maximum number of magazines you should ever consider carrying is 6.
>but I 'need' more ammo
Put loose rounds in a backpack.

Split rigs are terrible unless you're talking about the LBT1961G or Mayflower split rig. Any kind of split rig which is connected in the middle by buckles ends up becoming a floppy mess which moves everywhere as you run. Yes I'm talking about the Spiritus split rig, and also the Tactical Tailor MAV which it's based on.
>but I need more of a kind of 'load-bearing' rig
Backpack or full belt webbing.

>>64472299
The 16 mags is more of the option. The pouches I'm planning on putting up front *can* hold 3 each, but at the end of the day, they're just pouches. I can put whatever I need to in there. The split rig I'm looking at wouldn't have buckles, I'd put tubes there for the connecting points, so it wouldn't be able to loosen up.

Looking for a cheap radio, relatively durable, and waterproof enough to survive a dunk if I fall while wading through a river. IDEALLY I'd be able to just swap my current baofeng for whatever radio I get.

>>64472642
Any Yaesu with an IPX7 rating should be a straight upgrade from Baofengs.
>>64472256
16 mags on a chest rig is mind-bendingly based provided you can move with it and aren't overburdened. Best defense is a good offense amirite?