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Thread 64466323

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Anonymous No.64466323 [Report] >>64466363 >>64466482 >>64466551 >>64466555 >>64467122 >>64467126 >>64467246 >>64467429 >>64467476 >>64470417 >>64470970 >>64471383 >>64472053
Warhammer 40K weapons
/tg/ said /k/ was the place to sperg out over the weapons of Warhammer 40

How would a modern MBT like the Abrams or Leopard 2 hold up against the Leman Russ tank?

Based on the Lexicanum article it sounds like it would compare very well, except in terms or armor and weakspots like the sponsons.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Leman_Russ_Battle_Tank
Anonymous No.64466363 [Report] >>64466440 >>64471799
>>64466323 (OP)
The Russ has comparable armament to the Abrams and is worse at just about everything else.


However, the big caveat with anything 40k is that it always DEPENDS.
depending on the forge world of origin, that leman Russ could be equipped with all sorts of stuff like advanced alloys in it's armour and all kinds of sensors. Or it could be a stripped down shit box made to be as cheap as possible.
Anonymous No.64466440 [Report] >>64471294
>>64466363
There's one important thing the Abrams doesn't have: the Omnissiah's blessing. Not even a drop of scented oil.
Anonymous No.64466482 [Report] >>64466499 >>64470773
>>64466323 (OP)
You'll understand 40k a lot better if you realize it's a wargame written by 1980s nerds about a future where ignorance is the norm and technological progress is a long dead myth. They took their present-day and set it as the tactical cap.

1940s-1950s is the baseline for the competent normal units like Cadians because every wargamer alive in the 1980s knows how to play those.
1980s tactics is the cutting edge elites like Space Marines and Tau.
1920s is the in-setting incompetent and low tech forces like Kriegers.
Anonymous No.64466499 [Report] >>64468691
>>64466482
>1940s-1950s is the baseline for the competent normal units like Cadians because every wargamer alive in the 1980s knows how to play those.
Mass infantry with no fear of artillery or air attack and use a static line of tanks as fire support? Then die when a 9ft tall knight charges you with a chainsaw?
Anonymous No.64466518 [Report] >>64466588 >>64466594 >>64466643 >>64467386 >>64467460 >>64468709 >>64471460
Tyger

The Tyger tank was first seen in the so-called “Two World War”. This conflict seems to have been notable for only featuring two planets – Terra and Venus – making it a relatively small skirmish. Like the MULE used by the Adeptus Mechanicus in days of yore, the Tyger is probably named after an animal of Old Earth, in this case, large, nine-legged insectoids from the Yndonesian Bloc, bred as beasts of war. One early tank commander, Wilhelm Swordsworth, allegedly wrote war poetry about the prowess of this vehicle, but alas only fragments remain. The Tyger was apparently a large battle tank for its time, but is several measures smaller than a Baneblade, indicating the primitive nature of early Terran technology.

T54

While we do not know much about the T54 tank (certain records have been suppressed by the Fabricator-General for unknown reasons), we know that it was relatively rare, with only around 100,000 units manufactured. Judging by the small size of the main armament, Fabricator-adepts believe that this vehicle probably used primitive energy-projection technology akin to the lascannon, designed to support larger vehicles.

As for what T54 stands for, the answer is obvious! T54 was clearly an adept of the Mechanicum in the early days of Mars, and discovered the STC for this vehicle, much as Arkhan Land (binharic praise upon his name) discovered the STCs for the Land Raider and Land Speeder.
Sherman

While the Sherman superficially resembles Imperial designs, it has several disadvantages compared to the Leman Russ. Sloped plating is likely to deflect small arms munitions into nearby soldiers while proving ineffective at dispersing las-fire. Attacking the enemy with a cavalry sabre from the turret hatch would be all but impossible due to its awkward position, even if the crew drove the officer very close. Similarly, field simulations suggest that the treads would quickly become clogged after running over even a smallish squad of Aeldari Guardians.
Anonymous No.64466551 [Report]
>>64466323 (OP)

Do not pay the slightest bit of attention to the official statistics of 40k vehicles. 40k is emphatically NOT designed by mechanical engineers and the artists who make the vehicles have no idea about realistic function. Most of the classic designs are derived from the WW2 Airfix sets that the first wave of sculptors and gane designers in the 80s grew up with when they were kids in the 60s.

The text you see on data sheets has absolutely zero bearing on the vehicles' actual function as described. For instance, a Warlord Titan is "officially" 30m/100' high, which makes it about the same size as the Statue of Liberty minus plinth. And yeah, that's big and all, but not the single-handedly city-smashing big that Titans are routinely shown stamping on skyscrapers in the fluff and artwork.

Rule of cool prevails over all. 40k vehicles have aesthetics, not functionality. I love the Leman Russ - its boxy shape exudes doughty stolidness, it has atmosphere - but it wouldn't last ten seconds on an actual battlefield.
Anonymous No.64466555 [Report]
>>64466323 (OP)
You have two threads for this already.
Anonymous No.64466566 [Report] >>64466630
God, I want a lasgun. High caliber damage with no recoil, no drop, and essentially instantaneous travel time. Magazines you can reload by leaving out in the sun for a while. Maintenance? It’ll probably be fine for the next ten generations after I’m dust without having so much as a cleaning.
Anonymous No.64466588 [Report]
>>64466518
Kek
Anonymous No.64466594 [Report]
>>64466518
lmao
Anonymous No.64466630 [Report] >>64466724 >>64466749 >>64470047
>>64466566
IIRC a lot of Lasgun models have "recoil", caused by the air in the "muzzle" getting vapourised with each shot, but it's very minimal. This is seen as actually a good thing by a lot of Guardsmen, because it's not storng enough to matter to the shooters aim but does provide them feedback that the weapon is firing.

You do need to clean that shit, though. Which tbf is supposed to be completely trivial.
Anonymous No.64466643 [Report]
>>64466518
Anonymous No.64466724 [Report]
>>64466630
True. Don’t want anything accumulating on the lens.
Anonymous No.64466749 [Report] >>64468903
>>64466630
I was exaggerating slightly, but I know they are insanely reliable. Bolters may be the poster gun of the 40k universe, but lasguns…those things would be a small arms revolution if introduced today. A logistician’s wet dream come true.
Anonymous No.64467019 [Report] >>64467034 >>64467112
the funniest piece of warhammer "lore" is the page that says bolters fire "depleted deuterium" projectiles, which physically can't exist and the closest thing to it would just be electrons.
Anonymous No.64467034 [Report] >>64467053 >>64468647
>>64467019
lol, isn’t that a hydrogen isotope?
Anonymous No.64467053 [Report] >>64467059
>>64467034

it's "depleted" deuterium, so it's literally just hydrogen. They probably tried making some far-future analogue to depleted uranium and they grabbed the first word that sounded cool.
Anonymous No.64467059 [Report] >>64467080 >>64468801 >>64470985
>>64467053
They should have just gone with depleted uranium. Shooting radioactive material everywhere seems totally on point for the setting.
Anonymous No.64467080 [Report] >>64470985
>>64467059
That's the Ad Mech's thing.
Anonymous No.64467112 [Report]
>>64467019
>that pic
It's simpler than that, anon. The Leman Russ is the tank from Indiana Jones 3.
Anonymous No.64467122 [Report] >>64471426
>>64466323 (OP)
>/tg/ said /k/ was the place to sperg out over the weapons of Warhammer 40
yeah
anyway, here's an irl chaos tainted tank. I thought you'd like it.
Anonymous No.64467126 [Report] >>64467143 >>64467217 >>64467393 >>64471435 >>64471454
>>64466323 (OP)
>>>riveted armor
I don't care what bullshitium your tank is made out of, this thing is getting raped by any sort of modern AT weapon, let alone anything from the last 50 years. Hose it down with enough auto cannon or heavy MG fire, and the back of those rivets will pop off inside the tank and pepper the crew inside.
That being said 40k Darktide and Space Marine 2 are fun games, too bad the miniatures cost an arm and a leg.
Anonymous No.64467143 [Report]
>>64467126
They come in package boxes now (combat patrol and battle force)that are cheaper than buying the models separately.
Anonymous No.64467217 [Report] >>64467393 >>64468386
>>64467126
welds aren't grim dark enough for the 41st millenium. even parts that clearly would be castings have random rivets on them.
Anonymous No.64467246 [Report]
>>64466323 (OP)
Poorly. Though the Leman Russ has comparable weapons and frontal armor to the Abrams, it was designed as an infantry support weapon more akin to the Booker and its sensors aren't up to the task of getting the important first strike against a true MBT. For that, you want something like the Dorn or Macharius which are meant for tank hunting.
Anonymous No.64467275 [Report] >>64470440 >>64470476
While the hammerhead tank doesn't look like it has the best design armor-wise, I do like the railgun.
Anonymous No.64467386 [Report]
>>64466518
Canon btw
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/T54
Anonymous No.64467393 [Report] >>64471454
>>64467126
>>64467217
Molecular bonding studs, trust ze plan.
Anonymous No.64467429 [Report] >>64468396 >>64468555
>>64466323 (OP)
If you're a killjoy? Any modern MBT crushes the Leman Russ because SF writers cannot into numbers. Outranged, outgunned, and outarmoured

If you're more "realistic"? The Leman Russ obliterates anything modern thanks to 20,000 years of technological development giving it freakishly strong hyperalloy armour and armour-deletium guns, and that's without getting into BS like lascannons or plasma guns. Of course, in actual battlefield role, the Leman is more like a close infantry support vehicle or mobile bunker than a proper MBT, so the comparison is hardly fair in the first place. It's built to give an infantry platoon an armoured source of heavy firepower that they can rely on for anything their own weapons won't handle, not to kill enemy tanks and create local superiority in armoured strength
Anonymous No.64467460 [Report]
>>64466518
The blurb on the Sherman was a foreshadowing of the Dorn.
Anonymous No.64467476 [Report] >>64468555
>>64466323 (OP)
It would BUTCHER Leman Russ's by the company. A Russ is slower, less armored, has a profile of a fucking house, and it's main gun is a WW2 120mm APHE (APFSDS is literally magic made from a single forge world) and the Leman Russ uses WET FUCKING STORAGE for the ammo because blow out panels are somehow defeatist and piss off the machine spirit at the same time.
Anonymous No.64468336 [Report] >>64468555 >>64470942
Anonymous No.64468386 [Report] >>64471082
>>64467217
>heavy bolter on the sponsor have magazine outside, meaning that wit it's RoF someone need to either stand or leave the tank to reload them 2x
>flame turret have promethium pipe going outside behind despite promethium tanks being usually stored inside or below the turret
I know it's sci-fi and rule of cool and most of the time it's fine but cmon with this here
Anonymous No.64468396 [Report] >>64471454
>>64467429
It's a cast and riveted T55 anon. Of course it would get blown up by archeaotech M1s. The Imperium would send 30 Russes for every M1 in hordes like Russia invading Ukraine, complete with bad logistics, until the tidal wave of bodies overruns this peculiarly advanced frontier world.
Anonymous No.64468555 [Report] >>64468564 >>64468746
>>64468336
>>64467476
>>64467429
it's not just APFSDS, regular HEAT is also incredibly powerful and rare by imperial standards, and it also absolutely rapes their tanks on the tabletop. A single somewhat lucky hit from this gun can blow up a Leman Russ, two or three nearly guarantee it
Anonymous No.64468564 [Report] >>64470968
>>64468555
an Abrams would be an invulnerable murder machine, popping turrets left and right and headshotting Warlord Titans from beyond way beyond their targetting range
Anonymous No.64468647 [Report]
>>64467034
Deuterium is a hydrogen isotope, with one neutron on top of it's proton. It's still part of a hudrogen gas or water molecule, nothing changes chemically but it's useful in some nuclear applications as heavy water.

Depleted Uranium is non-radioactive Uranium that is used in armor piercing rounds because of it's high density.

Someone at GW read all this somewhere, mixed it all up and couldn't be bothered to go look it up so now it's canon fancy sounding nonsense.
Anonymous No.64468691 [Report]
>>64466499
Exactly. Just like the Battle of the Bulge.
Anonymous No.64468709 [Report]
>>64466518
Good stuff
Anonymous No.64468746 [Report]
>>64468555
it's interesting that most real tanks with multiple guns put the higher velocity anti tank one in the turret and left the big he gun in the hull, but the leman russ puts the gun without ap shells in the turret and leaves the fucking laser cannon in the hull.
Anonymous No.64468801 [Report] >>64471438
>>64467059
Already a thing. Besides, the SM used to have Volkite weapons and formed destroyer squads to really kill stuff
Anonymous No.64468903 [Report] >>64470379
>>64466749
bolters are based on tech from the 1960’s. Not even joking they are basically enlarged Gyrojet rounds
Anonymous No.64470047 [Report] >>64470055
>>64466630

Not all lasguns but some certain patterns of them also have deliberate recoil engineered into the design. They have a "tumbler" installed in the stock which jolts the lasgun to introduce a spread pattern when a guardsman is firing multiple shots, considered more useful for winning the firefight in squad combat.
Anonymous No.64470055 [Report]
>>64470047
Ah yes, the famous archaeotech vibrating barrels of ancient Russia.
Anonymous No.64470379 [Report]
>>64468903
You and everyone's mother has been making this point for 8 years
Anonymous No.64470417 [Report]
>>64466323 (OP)
It is literally just a Mk IV tank mixed with a centurion turret and a chuchhill hull gun.
Anonymous No.64470440 [Report] >>64470617
>>64467275
Flying Hovertank with a high mounted cannon.
Are the drones detachable? Even if not, it is an attack helicopter. Tau tech of using loyal wingman drones and spotting lasers just werks. Plus they have kroot meatbags for doing what drones can't.
Anonymous No.64470476 [Report]
>>64467275
2142 best hover tank
Anonymous No.64470617 [Report] >>64470660
>>64470440
>Are the drones detachable?
Yes. They can target independently even when attached, but can also detach and move on their own as well. And the drones are semi-autonomous as well, they obey commands but they can seek out, accurately identify, and destroy enemy targets without needing to be directly controlled. The Tau are quite fond of spamming them on their vehicles.
Anonymous No.64470660 [Report] >>64470727
>>64470617
>tau have advanced technology with actual optics and rangefinders and shit
>in most editions they shoot with the same accuracy as a goblin with a gun made out of trash and worse than a conscript being reminded by his co to aim
Anonymous No.64470727 [Report] >>64470757
>>64470660
Tbf, a lone Fire Warrior will beat a lone Tempestus Scion in most matchups on the tabletop.

Now, it's true that the Tau have kinda lame accuracy on their own (only as much as an average Guardsmen) but you're supposed to be pairing them up with markerlights which gives them a nice accuracy boost. Plus their range is pretty superb too so they'll be firing well before a Guardsmen gets into range to return fire.

Tau are all about synergy. If Firewarriors are facing Guardsmen without air support, drone support, pathfinder recon and markerlights, etc. something has gone seriously wrong. They'll still probably win but...something has still gone wrong.
Anonymous No.64470757 [Report] >>64470795 >>64471312
>>64470727
it's funny that their advanced targeting technology only has the same effectiveness as a guardsman having a guy on the radio tell him to take aim
Anonymous No.64470773 [Report] >>64470787 >>64471011
>>64466482
>written by 1980s nerds about a future where ignorance is the norm and technological progress is a long dead myth.

that kind of came later - original 40K was a parody of Warhammer Fantasy (ie, space elves (eldar), space orcs (Orks), space empire (imaginatively called the imperium), space dwarves (squats), etc etc.

but it was liberally inspired by (read blatantly stealing) stuff from 2000AD, particularly Strontium Dog, Rogue Trooper, and of course, Judge Dredd. Icongraphy of the troopers on bikes or jet-bikes, with armour with Aquila eagles on shoulders, is 100% lifted from Dredd. The "arbites" enforcers in the hive cities, are almost 1:1 copies of the Judges. Rogue Trooper is the archetype on which the Imperial guard troopers were built, and of course, was also heavily influential in the original game's name - "Rogue Trader"

And the thing to remember was, original rogue trader isnt a wargame, at least in the sense that modern wargames are. It was expected to be run with a GM/DM running the game for two players. there wasnt any points values for creating armies, armies had almost no specific units - you got dreadnoughts, for instance, that both imperial guard, and marines would use the exact same models with. Same went for jet bikes and land speeders? (I am old, and its been 30+ years since I last played a GW game. I barely remember names.) and then you had space orc, eldar, squat dreadnoughts, which were if I remember, almost identical stat-lines.

the stuff that wasn't lifted whole-cloth from 2000AD was pretty much copied from Heinlein (starship troopers), Herbert's "dune" (imperium of man, elite soldiers, the "immaterium" for FTL Travel - chaos wasnt really introduced to the game till the Slaves of Darkness and Lost and Damned books in 1989 and 1990, and those books were designed to be used for both Rogue trader, and Warhammer Fantasy Battles

all the equipment was also lifted from 2000AD. "needle pistols", "jump packs" etc.
Anonymous No.64470787 [Report] >>64471087
>>64470773
>Blatantly stealing
Actually, GW paid 2000AD's artists to illustrate most early 40K work. It isn't stealing when it's done by the same guys.
Anonymous No.64470795 [Report]
>>64470757
Fair...but they do have nearly the same range as a Space Marine sniper squad. Plus, Firewarriors can get their own markerlights, so they don't even need to rely on another squad for their accuracy boost.
Anonymous No.64470942 [Report]
>>64468336
To be fair to the Land Raider it's not a MBT, it's a IFV for Space Marines and for a IFV it is very armored and has a metric fuckton of firepower, and the occupants themselves are almost as armored as a vehicle themselves so any penetration will be greatly reduced in effect.
Anonymous No.64470968 [Report]
>>64468564
>titans
No. Titans would be a B2/B52 SQUADRION tier threat, a Warlord's void shields are legitimately impressive.
Anonymous No.64470970 [Report]
>>64466323 (OP)
> /tg/ said /k/ was the place to sperg out over the weapons of Warhammer 40
it really isn’t.
Anonymous No.64470985 [Report] >>64471051
>>64467059
>>64467080
nigga we use DU irl
we have for a while. admech isn’t just radioactive crap its super radioactive crap and guns that give you cancer
Anonymous No.64471011 [Report]
>>64470773
continued:

and the thing with Rogue Trader being a parody of Warhammer Fantasy was, at some points it was even assumed players could be using units in formation, like the Napoleonic war games that had in turn inspired WHFB.

They really only settled on individual models in loose formation on round bases for Rogue Trader, and formations of models in tight formation for WHFB around the time rogue trader became a big sales hit in 1988 - before that it really was "whatever you feel like" for both games, and implausible as it might sound now, they originally thought that rogue trader would be a funny little parody game that might sell a few copies, and would be discontinued after a year or two, compared to the big success story, WHFB.


>1940s-1950s is the baseline for the competent normal units like Cadians because every wargamer alive in the 1980s knows how to play those.
>1980s tactics is the cutting edge elites like Space Marines and Tau.
>1920s is the in-setting incompetent and low tech forces like Kriegers.

The big problem with this is, Tau and Kriegers didn't exist - and wouldn't do until at least a decade later. the name "cadian" I think was introduced around 5 years after Rogue trader - '93 or '94. As far as I remember the only imperial guard named in the original book were the "necromunda spiders".

the idea of there being any sort of 1940-50's, 1980's, and 20's technology or mentality really didn't exist in the original game, and I'm afraid you're conflating elements which arrived in the game years, often decades later.
Anonymous No.64471051 [Report]
>>64470985
The "Radium" guns are more like polonium or caesium-137 projectiles (which is fucking horrifying) but the writers are fucking morons.
Anonymous No.64471082 [Report] >>64471104
>>64468386
To be fair, the original model of the Predator tank had enclosed sponsons around the heavy bolters, with the ammo feed entirely internal.
Anonymous No.64471087 [Report]
>>64470787
They paid the artists yes, but the design concepts were blatantly taken from 2000AD etc. - and some of the designers were also writers for 2000AD and were recycling themes they'd used.

And the designers have admitted that many times over the last 30 years. its hard to say just how influential 2000AD was at the time, in the 80's. I grew up in an area where comic books were rarely available and the 2000AD titles were absolutely shocking, and I do mean that as an accurate expression - they shocked because they were unlike anything else out there - if Punk had shocked the music establishment in '77, then 2000AD did the same for print. by the time I was finding it around '87 or so, they'd become established, but were in no way mainstream or respectable.

so "stealing" might be a little harsh, but the GW writers absolutely took the ideas from existing sources and used it as the foundation for what was to come - and 99% of the 2000AD identity has been retconned and rewritten and refined into the modern 40K setting which is in turn being riffed off and influencing other games today.
Anonymous No.64471104 [Report] >>64471212
>>64471082
...and the normal 40k version has a belt feed running to an ammo box inboard of the bolter, with a visible hatch that the crew could open to replace the box.

The one with the inaccessible drum magazine is Horus Heresy slop.
Anonymous No.64471212 [Report]
>>64471104
The only good part of HH is the mechanicum range. God I want rules for thallax in 40k
Anonymous No.64471217 [Report]
I hated the hover tanks for marines. someone told me they’re supposed to look like a bradley fighting vehicle. I was like, huh yeah they kinda do. I now only slightly hate them.
Anonymous No.64471294 [Report]
>>64466440
How do you know He on Earth wasn't working a blue collar job in Lima, Ohio sometime between 979.M1 and 025.M2?
Anonymous No.64471312 [Report]
>>64470757
The Tau have naturally poor depth perception, so the basic optics of their helmets actually mostly serves to make up for the disadvantage, and it's the markerlights that give them leg up on Imperial units.
Anonymous No.64471383 [Report] >>64471474
>>64466323 (OP)
/k/ is a Tau board
Anonymous No.64471426 [Report]
>>64467122
that's not orcs?
Anonymous No.64471435 [Report]
>>64467126
>I don't care what hogwashium your screw frigate is composed of, this contrivance would suffer 'a fate worse than death' if confronted by any pattern of modern gun-howitzer, let alone a built-up 110-pounder RML. Bombard it with enough solid shot or Paixhans shells, and the teak-backing behind her armor plates will splinter and eviscerate every soul within her unpartitioned gundeck.
Anonymous No.64471438 [Report] >>64471505 >>64471544
>>64468801
Volkites aren't radioactive, they are supposed to be war of the worlds heat rays or something.
Anonymous No.64471454 [Report] >>64471459
>>64467126
>>64467393
>>64468396
There is actually a novel where a planet has T-55 and late war German Armored cars, T-55s
can take on Russes as long as they don't move since the Russ has better gun stabilization.
Anonymous No.64471459 [Report] >>64471493
>>64471454
One of the Gaunt books right?
Anonymous No.64471460 [Report] >>64471506
>>64466518
You are now reading this autistic assessment of archaic combat vehicles based on fragmentary historical records in the voice of I, Rogal Dorn.
Anonymous No.64471474 [Report] >>64471517
>>64471383
I like how the Tau battlesuits are just so much more practical than the Space Marines
>Mass produced and easy to replace, yet has the power of a fast flying dreadnought
>Don't need to do some ridiculous training program where thousands of recruits die for 1 marine, instead you just take literally any veteran Tau with 4 years of combat experience and give them an opportunity to promote into a battlesuit
>Decently armored enough to tank some incoming fire, while having immense firepower and high mobility so it never has to be caught in a melee
>Integrated into their cadres, so your common Firewarrior platoon can count on having heavy fire support close by at all times
Anonymous No.64471493 [Report]
>>64471459
Yeah, Urdesh is basically a Cold War Era forge world.
Anonymous No.64471505 [Report]
>>64471438
He's talking about the picture, you know, the one that has labeled radium weapons?
Anonymous No.64471506 [Report] >>64471602
>>64471460
Why did GW not give his mini the dornstache? Do they hate money?
Anonymous No.64471517 [Report] >>64471529 >>64471556
>>64471474
They aren't equivalent, marines are centuries old super warriors that train from near birth and are enhanced to the point they barely count as human. They are only practical compared to the thunder warriors and the custodes.
Anonymous No.64471529 [Report] >>64471548
>>64471517
Yeah, Space Marines make sense when you consider that the Emperor had a lot of knowledge about genetic enhancement.....but very little about engineering. Because the Emperor was basically some stone-age warlord who survived into the modern day, he tended to carry the same mindset that you'd expect from that kind of person and very much held an 'unga bunga biggest strongest guy should be in charge' mentality.
Anonymous No.64471530 [Report]
>tfw you draw attention to the fact that the setting based on a tabletop board game has scaling which lacks intellectual rigor.
Anonymous No.64471544 [Report] >>64471554
>>64471438
I'm aware. I mentioned the Volkite weapons because HH SM had special squads specifically designed to annihiliate things with them.

The mechanicus using radioative weapons and causing radiation storms is par for the course. Then again, they also yehaw with gimp horses (servitors put into horse bodies)
Anonymous No.64471548 [Report] >>64471565
>>64471529
SM make sense if you consider that they were made to be mass produced during a time when the imperium had stable access to advanced tech and they were churned out in their tens of thousands
Anonymous No.64471554 [Report] >>64471558 >>64471578
>>64471544
I mean, space marine destroyers used stuff like sad grenades and such, not even getting into the real nasty shit that the dark angels were packing.

IIRC volkites were actually standard issue at the time of the early crusade but the bolter replaced it due to ease of manufacture
Anonymous No.64471556 [Report] >>64471575
>>64471517
Training for centuries to use a sword in frontal charges, chanting prayers for six hours a day, and drenching recruits in so many hormones they are basically bara transgenders is not amazingly efficient, anon. Points for points a generic battlesuit is worth multiple space marines.
Anonymous No.64471558 [Report]
>>64471554
>sad grenades
Rad grenades*
Anonymous No.64471565 [Report]
>>64471548
That too I suppose. Plus apparently the Imperium actually has shit-tons of gene-seed stored up...but they won't use most of it because if there were too many space marines running around that would destabalize the Imperium.
Anonymous No.64471575 [Report] >>64471581
>>64471556
That wasn't what anon was saying, he said "they're only practical compared to thunder warriors and custodes", ie Space Marines are super fucking inefficient and a retarded idea, and only Custodes and Thunder Warriors are even less efficient.

Though personally I would give a break to the Custodes on account of them being personal bodyguards and thus inherently designed to be very limited in number.
Anonymous No.64471578 [Report] >>64471605 >>64471677
>>64471554
I suppsoe they had to make way for Bolters because someone had to go and lose the instruction manuel on how to make fuck you lasers.
Anonymous No.64471581 [Report] >>64471605
>>64471575
Thunder warriors were actually easier and cheaper to make, and while being much more powerful than SM they were ridiculously unstable.
Anonymous No.64471602 [Report]
>>64471506
They're saving the Dornstache for his 40k model once he returns to the Imperium minus hands but having learned headbutt techniques that more than make up for it.
Anonymous No.64471605 [Report] >>64471677
>>64471578
Volkites, amusingly, weren't actually that powerful IIRC. Like, they did a ton of damage, but were fairly short-ranged and not good at penetrating armor. So they're the idea weapon for CQC against fleshy enemies, I could see them being amazing at Tyranids and Orks in a space hulk, but despite being a rare tech they're not necessarily inherently better than bolters for everything.

>>64471581
Yeah, Thunder Warriors were only meant for the campaign on Terra itself IIRC, cause the Emperor literally didn't trust them to be able to sit still on a spaceship long enough in between conquests to not start making trouble.

Honestly the contrast between the Tau and the Imperium is fun because it's a study on two fundamentally different ways of doing warfare. Do you treat the common soldier as disposable chaff and focus on uplifting a handful of elite troops to get the missions done that cannot be completed by throwing waves of disposable fodder? Or do you focus your efforts on supporting the common soldier with as much support as you can give, and rely on making regular army elite and well-equipped, foregoing separate organizations of supersoldiers in favor of making the regular military stronger?
Anonymous No.64471677 [Report]
>>64471578
>>64471605
Volkites were phased out because bolters are easier to manufacture on the level the legions needed. The Ad Mech still makes extensive use of them.
Anonymous No.64471799 [Report]
>>64466363
>The Russ has comparable armament to the Abrams and is worse at just about everything else.
In all depictions including that picture where it's labeled 120mm the Battle cannon appears to be two or even three times the caliber. Some kind of low velocity high explosive charge artillery gun more than a MBT cannon.
Anonymous No.64472053 [Report]
>>64466323 (OP)
Could Russes fuck up a bunch of M1s Leo2s and T-90s? Probably but it's not really due to their design but more to do with Lascannons being really good AT weapons and there's almost certainly going to be way more Russes in an area then 'native' MBTs.
Overall the tank is pretty meh but it's arguably got a good deal of neat gadgets like the aforementioned Lascannons and other highly advanced weapons, the Aupex is supposed to be actually a really good sensor suite too with like AI target recognition and various visual, thermal, and 'magic' scanning methods.
Armor wise both sides are basically paper as actual AT equipped Russes would have some nasty weapons and a LR's armor might as well not exist compared to most modern AT ammo.
It really comes down to who sees each other first and I feel the MBTs probably have an slight advantage there as Auspex, despite their own paper superiority, are famously unreliable up to and including a handheld one mistaking a fucking warlord titian for a super heavy tank.
But as i said above, you'd probably have 3 to 5 Russes in an area compared to most MBTs operating in pairs at and rarely in companies of 4. So the MBTs would probably get the opening slavo off and kill a tank or two, the surviving Russes would probably return effective fire and kill them in return