Thread 64466373

Anyone actually know how noise makers and torpedo guidance works? Does the noise maker really make the torpedo turn like in cold waters? I assume that the torpedo can triangulate the sub by moving laterally and determining an exact location when the noise maker is dropped. Or is it just dumb proportional navigation. Also passive vs active seeking, noise maker can't stop a ping form the warhead can it?
also what kind of actual maunevers will a sub make when avoiding a torpedo. And what are the actual chances of dodging of one if it detects you.

>>64466373 (OP)
It's the same idea as how flares have a chance of distracting a heat-seeking missile. The noise maker makes noise, and there's a chance that an acoustic guided torpedo mistakenly tracks the noise maker instead of the sub.
Obviously it would only work on acoustic homing torpedoes, the same way that flares are only affective against heat-seeking missiles. A noisemaker would be useless against other types of torpedo guidance.

>>64466373 (OP)
Sub commanders will try to use maff and trigonometry to hit their target regardless. The homing ability is a bonus.

>noise maker can't stop a ping form the warhead can it?
Listening for the echo gets a bit harder when there's an asshole with a megaphone screaming in your ear.

>>64466373 (OP)
the actual maneuver that works is running away since the torpedo has very limited running time at high speed

>>64466373 (OP)
Newer torpedoes essentially create a 3D image using sonar that they can navigate even in the presence of enemy countermeasures. This also vastly improves shallow water performance. The MK 48 mod 7 is about as near as an auto-kill as you can get. Earlier acoustic homing torpedoes could get lured away by noisemakers.

>>64466517
>The homing ability is a bonus
It's more than that.
In the late 80s and early 90s there were open source marketing glossies from Honeywell about the upgrades in the Mk48 ADCAP torpedo and torpedo MK50. (their glossies were quite clear, it's "Mk" small 'k' and MK50 large 'K')
>could discern programmed target from range of acoustic signatures, essentially "ignore the Sovremenny, go get the Slava class"
>could be programmed where to hit the target
>sub target? MK50 could be programmed to hit where sail intersects hull
>surface target? Mk48 would explode under the keel
>could be programmed to swim out at an oblique angle, then turn and close to the target
Extrapolating forward, the capabilities modern torpedoes have must be amazing.
>Mattel hand held football compute power vs Nintendo switch

>>64466628
>Earlier acoustic homing torpedoes could get lured away by noisemakers
Are we reaching the point where the only countermeasures for torpedoes will be.... smaller torpedoes?

>>64466373 (OP)
Imagine a giant Alkaseltzer tablet. Lots of noise to confuse passive homing and lots of bubbles to confuse active homing. At least, that's how they worked 30 years ago, but I can't imagine that they're much better now because the basics of fooling a torpedo are pretty much the same today. The torpedoes are smarter but they perceive their environment in the same way.
>noise maker can't stop a ping form the warhead can it?
Yes, it can. Ping an air bubble, see an air bubble. At least, that's how it was thirty years ago. Things have probably changed a bit since then but I'll bet that the difference isn't significant. Sonar has been a mature technology for a while now.
>>64466567
Actual maneuver (again, 30 years ago) was a snapshot down the bearing of the incoming torpedo, dial up a flank bell while doing a 180, usually get on the other side of the thermocline (depending on local conditions), and then run like hell while looking for an opportunity to get out of its search cone. You're probably not going to run a modern torpedo out of fuel in a straight chase, but reducing the closing speed gives your more time, which gives you more options and chances to confuse it.

The problem (which I didn't realize at the time) is that this is mostly hypothetical. If we ever get a war with modern submarines trying to kill each other, I'd expect that we're going to learn a few things that no one had thought of.

>>64466373 (OP)
>Does the noise maker really make the torpedo turn like in cold waters?
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeQDavfoLYk

>>64467313
>smaller torpedoes
Mk58 Compact Rapid Attack Weapon