I'm 28 but look younger, still pass for a college student. I live in a city with a big LGBT scene and am thinking of trying things out. I've never done anything with a guy, but have had thoughts that I might be bi since I was 14. I'm at a point in my life where a combination of loneliness, social isolation and poor experiences with women is driving me in this direction, but I don't feel any of it is the right reason to get into any of this stuff. I guess I'm just making this post to get some opinions.

part 2

I had thoughts all the way back to 14 years old that I might be bi and e-dated a guy I was friends with on videogames for a bit. Probably not healthy, but I used to watch a lot of Neon Genesis Evangelion and found myself relating quite a bit to the main character Shinji, for his depression and anxiety, but also because I look like an older version of him, and looked pretty much exactly like him when I was that age. He became sort of a self insert of mine. When I ended up watching the show, seeing Kowaru come into his life, a gay character that he ended up falling for, who treated him with kindness that the women in his life never showed him, I can't help but find it relatable. I've been to a couple gay bars in the past because the places I was living at the time, it was the only bar open after a certain time. Honestly, I got compliments and free drinks, and it was nice to feel seen and feel like I mattered for once. It's been my only experience where I'm approached, and don't have to approach. That someone can show interest without me having to prove myself and pretend not to have crippling low self esteem, but instead have a normal conversation with a stranger that isn't scared of me for being a man.

part 3

Being a straight man in the 21st century when you have depression and low self esteem is rough because women don't give a fuck about showing you any kindness at all. These positive experiences with gay men, combined with a ton of negative experiences with women is driving me to consider giving things a shot. I'm tempted to check out the LGBT scene in my city but I'm just worried that I might be doing it for the wrong reasons, or that it might be taken as rude or intruding or attention seeking to go to these gay clubs when I don't even know if I'm like that. Posting just to see what you guys think. Sorry for the all the writing. I've been drinking and have a lot on my mind

>>40031629 (OP)
>I don't feel any of it is the right reason to get into any of this stuff
>Still believes in the narrative that others must approve of your reasons to explore yourself
Not a good look babe, go suck a dick if you want to

>some bs about Neon Genesis
sorry babe, when my bi bf gets back from the shops, I'll get him to check this thread for ya

it sounds overall like you're tired of getting pushed into the male stereotype by people you date and interact with, it sounds like you are bi, and imo, then next time you're at that gay club, go home with someone
in the mean time, figure out if you're more interested in taking dick or giving dick, cos taking dick is a good experience, but you need to be prepared for it in a way you won't be
>I could go off on a rant about how men are pushed into roles that suck because the current male dominated system demands they be dominators too, but I'll spare you all that

>>40031639
>I've been drinking and have a lot on my mind
babe I love playing therapist, what ya drinking?

>Being a straight man in the 21st century when you have depression and low self esteem is rough because women don't give a fuck about showing you any kindness at all
also as stupid as this might sound, you can't blame women, they are conditioned to see men as threats, and your average cishet men are conditioned to see women as objects, we live in a time where the two genders are somehow getting further apart rather than understanding each other, when equality should on the rise, but profits demand angry customers, and the gender war is a certified classic

>I'm just worried that I might be doing it for the wrong reasons
there aren't wrong reasons, you want someone to understand you and click with you, and you no longer care what gender they are
as long as you can be open to whoever you meet at the clubs about your lack of experience and personal issues, they'll understand where you're at, and if they're not comfy with that, you can find someone who gets you, I can imagine a decent amount of the men in those clubs had a panic phase at one point in their lives, they can relate

>or that it might be taken as rude or intruding
>lgBt
being a self hating bisexual is still under the umbrella babe

>>40031657
>Not a good look babe, go suck a dick if you want to
Not opposed if the person is clean, but ultimately it's more of an emotional starvation I'm struggling with. It feels like men are considered dispensable by the world, and I just want to find someone who treats me like a human being.
>it sounds overall like you're tired of getting pushed into the male stereotype by people you date and interact with
I grew up traditionally masculine, and honestly my hobbies and lifestyle are all still masculine. That's not what I have an issue with, but rather just not being valued as a human being. It feels like no matter what I do, it just doesn't lead anywhere or get me meaningful interactions. I can get a drunk hook up at a club, but can't get a relationship for example because the latter requires having social connections that as an introvert I just don't have.
>sorry babe, when my bi bf gets back from the shops, I'll get him to check this thread for ya
Sounds good. All input is welcome

>>40031697
>babe I love playing therapist, what ya drinking?
Some cans of twisted tea. Not the best or the classiest drink but fuck it, it does it's job. As far as the gender divide you're not wrong. I don't blame them if they are nervous or on edge about a man approaching, but that isn't the vibe I've gotten from them. It's more like they are offended because maybe they just wanted to be left alone, which is fine, but when you're in a public setting like a bar or a club, these have been theoretically social spaces for decades. If someone approaches you and is at least respectful, the least you can do in return is to be respectful when you deny their advances. They aren't scared of me, they're angry that I interrupted their night and they don't see me as enough of a human being to empathize that I have feelings too. Women don't understand that men don't get social interactions unless we initiate.
>there aren't wrong reasons, you want someone to understand you and click with you, and you no longer care what gender they are
Pretty much
>being a self hating bisexual is still under the umbrella babe
Fair enough. I still don't fully know if I am or not. I don't mind the idea if I'm actually bi, but if there's a possibility I'm straight and just that desperate from crippling loneliness seems like a humiliating concept. Also, but a straight white guy most of my life I'm not really used to being included in umbrellas. More of a scapegoat for most peoples problems while my own problems get ignored if I'm being honest. I've been blamed most of my life for a lot of historical issues, even though I've never mistreated anyone in my life

>>40031629 (OP)
It sounds like you have a lot of internal issues and probably mommy issues too, you are 28 you have to try and test things before it gets too late, there's nothing worse than accepting yourself when it's too late and missing out on a lot of the fun in life, I think an easy way to test is to porn, can you fap to gay masc men? does it need to be fem men or femboys etc? Are you disgusted by the thought of kissing another dude?

You should check out the LGBT scene in your city, worse comes to worse someone is going to hit on you or buy you a drink, just remember that they were probably in a similar situation to you where they needed to accept themselves for what they may be, HOWEVER it does also sound like you're touched & attention starved, you'll have bad times with all kids of gender desu, as being 30 and bi I will say you SHOULD go and test the water and see how you feel.

>>40031775
>gay masc men?
No.
>does it need to be fem men or femboys etc?
Yes or clean shaven twink types.
>Are you disgusted by the thought of kissing another dude?
Depends on the guy. If you look at the pic I used for the OP, that'd be my type, and with that type and around my age or younger I like the idea.

>it does also sound like you're touched & attention starved
1000%
>as being 30 and bi I will say you SHOULD go and test the water and see how you feel
Maybe I'll check it out one of these days. I want to get fit again and hopefully develop some semblance of self esteem again first. These past few years I haven't really taken care of myself. I'm a bit on the skinnier end but not nearly as lean as I used to be

>>40031720
>Not opposed if the person is clean, but ultimately it's more of an emotional starvation I'm struggling with
>Pretty much
my sarcasm came out a bit thick there, but you got what I meant later xd

>I grew up traditionally masculine
>That's not what I have an issue with
when I talk about male stereotypes, it comes with the thick expectations of men as well, there's nothing wrong with being a guy, but then the people who aren't guys lump you in with the people they see in the same category, and they don't understand the depths of your person and immediatly write you off, that's the male stereotypes I'm talking about in this situation, the negatives immediatly tagged onto straight dudes

>All input is welcome
>>40031775
there he is <_<

>cans of twisted tea
idk what that tastes like, but it looks fruity on the site so I approve

>I don't blame them if they are nervous or on edge
>that isn't the vibe I've gotten from them
>they are offended
so the hard part of this in your position is understanding their position when you've never been there, and you're not to blame for that, cos like I mentioned, the gender war is weirdly rising, and men are told that the women are just being rude if they get turned down, and the men can't understand the hassle of getting approached like 10+ times in one night, or god forbid you open a dating app and get spammed with hundreds of responses xd
>Women don't understand that men don't get social interactions unless we initiate
you're right but also the above where it's also hard from the womens pov too
on that note, trying to find a long term gf at a club might be why you're getting this vibe from women, they're at the club looking for a single night, whereas you sound like you're wanting an actual connection, the goals aren't aligned from the start which wont help your feelings when they reject you
and even if you can get what I'm saying, and you get there position here, I would also expect your heart to still be mad at them

>>40031748
>Also, but a straight white guy most of my life I'm not really used to being included in umbrellas
>More of a scapegoat for most peoples problems while my own problems get ignored if I'm being honest
the biggest issue with current identity politics, is you're only taken seriously as someone higher on the victim tier list
you as a white cis het guy, are victim ranking 100
I get why that hurts a lot, it's what alienates so many men and creates this fukin vibe of
>men saying; men have it worse
>women saying; all men suck

>even though I've never mistreated anyone in my life
and that's the stinger, till people know you, you can't show that you're a decent human, but you can't know people cos you get stuck at the gate
I get why you're mad, me and bf had a convo like last week about how feminism is using terms that are too misandrist, and it causes men to be kicked from the conversation, cos if you see a group of women talking about patriarchy and assume that means they hate you, it creates a barrier before you even actually talk, and even tho patriarchy has a textbook definition of the men in power, not just "all dudes"
but that's hard to take as a dude xd

>there's a possibility I'm straight and just that desperate from crippling loneliness
this is also fine bttw
you are allowed to be lonely, and also bi, cos most people in your position just become incels instead of considering trying dudes
>seems like a humiliating concept
but that'll take a long time of getting over internalised shit to be truly comfy with

>>40031817
Oh I get what you're saying about the stereotypes. I won't lie, they aren't entirely wrong. I don't see the same depth in my guy friends that I personally feel. If women stereotype men they'd probably be right about most of the guys I know, but it certainly isn't all of us. There's as much variety within men as there is within women.
>idk what that tastes like, but it looks fruity on the site so I approve
It is a bit
>getting approached like 10+ times in one night
It sounds like a pain for sure
> trying to find a long term gf at a club might be why you're getting this vibe from women
There's never usually even time for there to be a disconnect in my experience. Usually just saying hi and asking for their name gets me angry glares and silence for the few seconds it takes before I get the message and fuck off. I certainly don't think I'll get a relationship from a club, but I don't know any women anywhere else in my life and I've never met anyone through my friends so I don't expect I'll ever find someone. I've only had one relationship in my life, and that was 12 years ago when I was 16. In my entire adult life I've never had any experience, despite being in shape, decent looking and a faithful, respectful person. I'm going to reach my 30's with no experience, by which case my only options will be women who've had their fun and are ready to settle down and I just won't be down for that. Feels like being a back up plan for a generation of women who neglected me and treated me like shit, who ultimately ended up single because they couldn't get commitment out of the men they actually wanted
>I would also expect your heart to still be mad at them
Words can't describe it. Nobody owes me attention or commitment. However, if I'm always respectful it hurts when even the rejection isn't done respectfully. I don't even feel human

>>40031629 (OP)
sis, explore yourself and make sure you love yourself; i think you’ve had some bad experiences with women, but that doesn’t mean a man will treat you better; but you may find better understanding :)

>>40031871
> till people know you, you can't show that you're a decent human, but you can't know people cos you get stuck at the gate
100%. I was thinking about this earlier and it's just like the job market. All the entry level jobs require experience. It's a paradox with no opportunity to start.
>cos if you see a group of women talking about patriarchy and assume that means they hate you
The issue with the term patriarchy in my view, is the term itself presumes that we live in a society built for men. In reality it's a society built for *some* men. The wealthy, connected men at the top. The rest of us are ironically at the bottom, below women even. Everyone loves to talk about how men are most of the CEO's and billionaires. Nobody talks about how most of the homeless and prisoners are also men. Women can exist in the middle, but men generally occupy the extremes of society. As they say, privilege is invisible to those who have it, and the irony is lost on women who fail to realize this quote applies to them in many regards. Especially in regards to their incredibly high social power, being the ones who get to dictate sex, relationships, command attention without trying. As you mentioned earlier, they get approached more in one night then I have in my entire lifetime, and that includes women who aren't even as good looking as I am. I know for a fact my female looksmatch would slay, and that thought even resulted in some gender dysphoria for a bit as well. Which leads me to believe that most of the thoughts and identity crisis I'm having is honestly trauma induced at this point. I don't think I was born this way. I'm just beaten down and possibly coping.

>>40031899
You're not wrong. Either way, I appreciate the kind words

>>40031879
>I don't see the same depth in my guy friends that I personally feel
>There's as much variety within men as there is within women
also ngl, the women at clubs are prolly the girls who are on the lower depth level like your guy friends xd
but I get you don't have anywhere else to meet girls cos of the isolation crises that's hit our generation(26 bttw), I have my bf, but I don't feel like I have any other friends, and 0 way to meet people, I'm not gonna approach strangers and there's nothing forcing people into a group with me like in college
we live in an era where you need to meet people on your own, with no way to meet people on your own, which is grim
>There's never usually even time for there to be a disconnect in my experience. Usually just saying hi and asking for their name gets me angry glares and silence for the few seconds it takes before I get the message and fuck off
also ngl, I think this is based on the setting, a club
they make assumptions that you can't avoid based on your surroundings, your dress, you being a dude, and you don't have the power to change most of those
I'm not much of a club goer, but my only advice on that matter, is if you're still gonna try clubs to meet people, find girls who look like they don't fit in and try talking to them :/

>Feels like being a back up plan for a generation of women who neglected me and treated me like shit, who ultimately ended up single because they couldn't get commitment out of the men they actually wanted
the other sad part of that, is I can't say you're wrong, but also the girls with depth in their personalities that you might've clicked with have prolly found bfs already
I got mine at 24, you're 28
the window on meeting people the same age as you, who aren't just husks, and also are single is fucking small I imagine xd
cont ;-;

>>40031879
>in shape
>decent looking
>faithful
>respectful
you've been taught those things should've gotten you a partner, so you're defending your attractiveness, but you need to remember, it's also circumstance
women who can't see you as a human instead of a man only care about part 1, and if you're the shape they want to try tonight, hell ye, if not, ick
you can't change how they see you, all you can do is change how you take it
and if you're decision to change is by trying men, that's also a valid plan, you don't owe anyone heterosexuality
you won't be less of a man for fucking a twink, and the people who think you are less of one are the people we need removed from society

>Words can't describe it
>I don't even feel human
we don't have words to describe all our feelings, and it's to feel them, the stereotypes I mentioned earlier also include the one about men not being allowed to feel
it's a toxic stereotype inforced by mens view on other men as much as womens view on men, and it's fukin dog shit

>I was thinking about this earlier and it's just like the job market
ye actually, I used to use the most autistic example of world of warcraft :3
>"you need to get curve, to get curve"
if yknk, but it's the same, and it's harmful to everything it touches

>The issue with the term patriarchy in my view, is the term itself presumes that we live in a society built for men. In reality it's a society built for *some* men
actually in shock over here at the fact that a (up till recently) cis het guy has this level of understanding of that topic <_<
but you're 100% right, my mum is cis, and she puts herself above me in the victim hierarchy because of that
even tho as a single parent, she dictated a lot of my life, and led to a lot of issues in it, but that's lost on her, cos boo hoo, she suffered like 50 years ago
cont AGAIN <_<

>>40031978
>also ngl, the women at clubs are prolly the girls who are on the lower depth level like your guy friends xd
Not wrong
>we live in an era where you need to meet people on your own, with no way to meet people on your own, which is grim
Exactly. Were all just going to self isolate in our homes, and rot away, radicalizing ourselves by reading bad takes online and have no positive lived experiences to balance out the terminally online doom scrolling.
>I'm not much of a club goer, but my only advice on that matter, is if you're still gonna try clubs to meet people, find girls who look like they don't fit in and try talking to them :/
They all dress the same here, and honestly I'm not going to go out anymore. I'm just rotting away in my apartment. My parents pay my rent at the moment because I'm too depressed to even work anymore. Only reason I don't just move back with my dad is because my autistic schizophrenic sister drove me out in the first place because her voices hate me. Shit is rough and I don't see it getting any better.
>but also the girls with depth in their personalities that you might've clicked with have prolly found bfs already
I don't even think about this possibility and honestly I choose not to. It's worse to have hope when you know it never comes to fruition. I figure if I die alone, it's because I was always meant to. My only solace is hoping that society burns down soon enough for me to see it. Men maintain everything, and if the incentives aren't there anymore, eventually it will hit critical mass. It's not if, but when.

>>40031918
but in fairness as a feminist troon
>being the ones who get to dictate sex, relationships, command attention without trying
a lot of this is based on the fact that men see them as goals to reach and put penis inside, rather than the fact that they too are human
>dictate sex
this one is different, as taking a dick is more effort than just railing, and I don't mean it requires more cardio, it's a foreign object being put a decent distance into your body, if you ever try bottoming you'll get what I mean

>Which leads me to believe that most of the thoughts and identity crisis I'm having is honestly trauma induced at this point
>I don't think I was born this way
>I'm just beaten down and possibly coping
there's the question of nature or nurture in all aspects of LGBT shit
I don't think it matters
you're here now, wanting to be approached rather than approach
you're open to trying feminine dudes(who might not be the ones approaching but that's another issue ig)
as I said already somewhere, if you wheren't predestined to be a bit bi, regardless of nature, and regardless of nurture
you would prolly just be an incel, and not questioning, you don't sound stupid, you've put thought into this, and this board and this conversation is where you've landed

>reading bad takes online and have no positive lived experiences to balance out the terminally online doom scrolling
ACTUALLY ;-;
it's a fucking miracle I found my partner to stop me being as isolated, cos my friends have moved on and I'd be insane without him

>Shit is rough and I don't see it getting any better
yeah no advice on that one babe <3
try the new poe league on Friday, that'll be a fun distraction from reality xd

>don't even think about this possibility and honestly I choose not to.
fair

>>40032037
>it's a toxic stereotype inforced by mens view on other men as much as womens view on men, and it's fukin dog shit
In my experience, every man I've ever spoken with about how I feel has been beyond supportive, largely because were all feeling the effects on some level. Ironically it's women who will dehumanize you and write you off as an incel. Nobody expects strength out of men more than ciswomen do. Their biology is wired to be repulsed by weakness, because due to their own weakness as well as the weakness of children they are hardwired to rely on a man who won't get emotional when things are tough. They write it off as patriarchy that makes men bottle our emotions, when in reality it's them that we do it for.
>ye actually, I used to use the most autistic example of world of warcraft :3
I never played it. I played Wizard101 back in the day, and that's where I had a e-bf across the country for a bit.
>actually in shock over here at the fact that a (up till recently) cis het guy has this level of understanding of that topic <_<
I do my best to engage with right wing and left wing ideas in an intellectually honest way. I don't care too much about ideological camps. I only care about truth. I don't believe myself to be autistic but I certainly do have many similar tendencies within my personality. The issue I have with feminist takes no "patriarchy" is it implies that if the management were changed into an alternative, which let's take a matriarchy for example, it's implied that that would somehow be better. Power corrupts either way, and judging from how women have treated me I don't believe them to be a particularly empathetic sex despite what they may believe about themselves. All humans believe their identity group to be wise and understanding, because we understand our own problems. Understanding our own problems isn't the baseline for wisdom. It's understanding others. I don't believe a female led society would look any different.

>>40032037
>but you're 100% right, my mum is cis, and she puts herself above me in the victim hierarchy because of that
Is she a TERF?
>a lot of this is based on the fact that men see them as goals to reach and put penis inside, rather than the fact that they too are human
I would actually disagree on this part. Intimacy and sex are intertwined, and of course sex is *a* goal of men, but your framing implies it is *the* goal. Biologically speaking, it is the goal as it continues the human species, though I'm fully capable of valuing a woman as a human being and not just some hole to stick myself in. In earnest, the reason in my opinion that women get to be selective is because ultimately they have been designated by God or by nature, the universe or whatever you want to credit it to as a eugenic filter, for which genes survive and which do not. Unfortunately, I believe modern society has become maladaptive which does happen from time to time in nature. Modern society has become a great filter for a variety of reasons, which time will tell if we overcome.
>this one is different, as taking a dick is more effort than just railing, and I don't mean it requires more cardio, it's a foreign object being put a decent distance into your body, if you ever try bottoming you'll get what I mean
I meant dictate sex in terms of who gets it. In terms of the actual power dynamics at play during it, it probably depends on the individuals at play.
>as I said already somewhere, if you wheren't predestined to be a bit bi, regardless of nature, and regardless of nurture
This is valid
>you don't sound stupid, you've put thought into this, and this board and this conversation is where you've landed
also valid

>>40032047
>hoping that society burns down soon enough for me to see it
>eventually it will hit critical mass
I mean, given the rise of right wing across the western world, we're already seeing it go
I think 2016 trump caused the despair to start leaking out, trump then was a beacon for the lonely guy and across the world thanks to youtube spreading sjw owned compilations to every teenage guy it could, and now we're seeing the snowball start to pick up speed as it careens down a very hateful hill
>gender wars
>trans/homophobia rising at scary rates
>religions pulling communities apart
kinda sad for me given I've actually trans'd now, but oh well fuck me ig, what wonderful timing ;-;

>every man I've ever spoken with about how I feel has been beyond supportive
what about your parents generation?
the headmaster at your school?
the male teacher who laughed along to the homophic jokes?
the older men are the ones who grew up and taught the young men of today how to hold it in, my dads gone, but my uncles always pushed me to man up and step in as man of the house at like 12, and in HS we had someone to enforce uniforms and if I looked even slightly faggotty he'd be on me like a hawk telling me to cut it out
women get the same treatment through their mothers and female role models about how if a mans not strong he's worthless
it sounds cringe, but watching classic media growing up, where every dude is the strong hero, and every girl is the damsel in distress helps passively force those narratives in too
the patriarchy in this sense as you said, isn't other men, it's the ones in power, and in a localised sense, it's the men who are still sticking to rigid values of what a man should be
>Their biology is wired to be repulsed by weakness
don't let the actual incels play it off as biological differences, it's all socially learnt, the only biological thing is how horny people make em and that's both sides

>>40032117
>it's a fucking miracle I found my partner to stop me being as isolated, cos my friends have moved on and I'd be insane without him
I feel myself going insane honestly. During the isolation of years of covid lockdowns, I developed a bad habit of talking to myself. You say I don't sound stupid and that my ideas are well thought out, it's because I've developed a habit of talking to myself. I even get into long winded philosophical debates with myself where I'm forced to define and justify every belief I have. It's a doom loop of constant introspection that ultimately never leads me anywhere. It helps with articulation, but certainly doesn't help with life satisfaction.
>try the new poe league on Friday, that'll be a fun distraction from reality xd
I'm not familiar. Also, I appreciate the strawberry milk. I'll continue to stay on as long as I can stay awake, but do keep in mind I'm American and I've been up the entire night haha You and your bf seem very kind and I appreciate these conversations. It's nice having someone to clear my head with. My discord is #6030Banksy if you ever want to talk after this. Not saying I'm getting off right now, but at some point it's bound to happen

>>40032226
>I think 2016 trump caused the despair to start leaking out
Nah, he was a reaction. The despair was already there. Why do you think people rallied behind a scorched Earth candidate? We already discussed earlier in the thread the dehumanization of the common man, particularly if you're white and not high on the victimization pyramid. I can tell you as a 12 year old white boy being blamed for colonialism, it never sat well with me or with my friends.
>thanks to youtube spreading sjw owned compilations to every teenage guy it could
The compilations are also just a reaction. Us teenage boys watched that shit because we despised how those sjw's attacked as us and treated us in our lives.
>now we're seeing the snowball start to pick up speed as it careens down a very hateful hill
We feel that we were treated with hate. For us it was only a reciprocal response. The sad reality is, I can tell from the perspective of a white guy on the right that literally everything you're seeing is a reaction that originated from intersectional identity politics being weaponized against a group of people who just wanted to be left alone. White men are victims of capitalism too, but identity politics were used to scapegoat us to divert attention away from class politics so the bankers, CEOs and politicians could steer the attention away from themselves. When that negative attention got turned onto regular, struggling, working class white men by intersectional progressives, it escalated into a scorched Earth response to destroy everything these attackers stood for. Now were seeing the effects. If we would've been left alone or treated with the slightest bit of kindness I truly believe we wouldn't be seeing any of this
>kinda sad for me given I've actually trans'd now, but oh well fuck me ig, what wonderful timing ;-;
Sorry to hear. I wish you all the best and you seem like a wonderful person. May I ask where you're from?

>>40032123
>I don't care too much about ideological camps. I only care about truth
you seem cool ngl
>The issue I have with feminist takes no "patriarchy" is it implies that if the management were changed into an alternative, which let's take a matriarchy for example, it's implied that that would somehow be better
IMO this issue is how you mentioned earlier
>reading bad takes online
sadly, young girls talking about subjects they can't fully understand as if they where an authority, and older women who hold misandrist views have irreparably damaged the """discourse"""
and it leads to these things you hear from "feminists" like
>all men should die
and that just makes the whole conversation toxic, don't get me wrong, I look at a lot of right wing males like incels cos their stupid, but that type of giga left wing woman is equally fucking stupid

>I don't believe them to be a particularly empathetic sex despite what they may believe about themselves
I think this also comes down to taught behaviour, they're taught that caring is feminine and good, even if they themselves might not be of the actual capacity to empathise deeper than just saying
>"that sucks babe"
capatalism and chrisian values of the western world have led to this wonderful divide, and no understanding of each other

>Is she a TERF?
she has terf friends, but accepts trans women
I think as her child, she still sees the me from like 7 years ago at this point, it's a nice combo of her own misandry, her biases against me, and her opinions of the kid she raised

>the universe or whatever you want to credit it to as a eugenic filter
>Modern society has become a great filter for a variety of reasons
I get that, modern life is not comparable with any other species, and when we compare what "nature/god" intended and modern values and the idea of moving on from our base forms, but then you add capatalism into it, that then incentivises pushing a narrative for profit
we're living the results, and it's awful

>>40032226
In regards to the questions you pose and the culture you mention, I can't say that I relate to any of that. Perhaps I just grew up in a different culture, but public schools in America you can dress how you want. When it came to gender roles, I don't feel I ever struggled with it nor saw anyone else around me struggle with it, though I admit it'd be impossible to know what people felt internally without being them. We even had a couple gay kids at our school, and if they were bullied I certainly didn't see it. Generally America (at least the part where I'm from) was always a pretty chill place from what I could see. I'm also likely biased, because I never had any issues with my masculinity and being on the football team and growing up on sports and martial arts you could say I had a traditionally masculine upbringing where I naturally gravitated to those traditional expressions. If you didn't naturally fit into those roles, perhaps it could have been a different experience.

>>40032185
>I meant dictate sex in terms of who gets it
yeah, I think this is also inspired by the chrisian values the west has inherited where a girls "purity" is sacred, and valuable, therefore she shouldn't share, combine that with men being the ones that the same culture has forced to approach and you have 10 men for 1 woman, because the other 9 women aren't comfortable or socially accepted as being as promiscuous

>I feel myself going insane honestly. During the isolation of years of covid lockdowns
COVID AS WELL FUCKING GOD
ye, that destroyed what was meant to be my most social years in Uni, and the damage the isolation has done has left a lasting impact on everyones psyche
>it's because I've developed a habit of talking to myself
>debates with myself where I'm forced to define and justify every belief I have
>It helps with articulation, but certainly doesn't help with life satisfaction.
yeah there's only a certain amount of theorising you can do, before you need to test your theories, and by the sounds of it, you're starting to be ready to move on those ideas, it took me like 7 years to rationalise being trans, and luckily, I chose to just dive into hrt at like year 3 and hope for the best, and since I've had a lot more mental progress by theorising, and having a bf has allowed me to test a lot of those theories
you need to get testing babe! <3

>I'll continue to stay on as long as I can stay awake
I'll send you a friend req, like I said, I love playing the therapist, that's my goal when I get back into education
>May I ask where you're from?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2bHoTUiMpI
>Also, I appreciate the strawberry milk
picrel <3

>>40032310
>you seem cool ngl
Thank you. You as well
>and that just makes the whole conversation toxic, don't get me wrong, I look at a lot of right wing males like incels cos their stupid, but that type of giga left wing woman is equally fucking stupid
I won't defend bad behavior on any side. Being a man and living in a very leftist part of the US, my experiences have geared me struggle from one particular end of the bad behavior though, which I'll fully admit makes me a lot more emotionally reactive to one over the other. Not to say that I'd be unwilling to call out genuine misogyny if I see or hear it. At the same time, there's only so many years you can hear "women don't owe you anything!" before you begin to feel like "that's fine, but I don't owe you anything anymore either"
>capatalism and chrisian values of the western world have led to this wonderful divide, and no understanding of each other
I find this to be a contradiction actually. I believe feminism and sexual liberation to be a deeply capitalist belief system, where as Christian tradition of a more socialist nature. If I were to give one major example, it's the notion of sexual liberation, especially when empowered with birth control. A non promiscuous, monogamous culture inevitably leads to people pairing off. The 10's don't get harems, they are restricted to one partner each, and thus pair off with the other 10's. The 9's with the 9's,etc. Ofc this is oversimplistic and people are much deeper than surface level evaluations or numerical ratings, but I'm sure you at least understand the idea I'm conveying here. With sexual liberation and promiscuity, women naturally gravitate towards the best men they get with, and falsely believe that because a man is willing to have sex with her he's also willing to date her. As it stands, a small portion of men with all the options get a disproportionate amount of the success with women where the winner takes all, like capitalism. Monogamy is sexual socialism

>>40032310
>I think as her child, she still sees the me from like 7 years ago at this point
Fair. My mom probably still sees me as even younger than that haha
>I get that, modern life is not comparable with any other species, and when we compare what "nature/god" intended and modern values and the idea of moving on from our base forms, but then you add capatalism into it, that then incentivises pushing a narrative for profit
we're living the results, and it's awful
Spot on. Read Brave New World and were basically living it
>ye, that destroyed what was meant to be my most social years in Uni, and the damage the isolation has done has left a lasting impact on everyones psyche
I still haven't recovered
>you need to get testing babe! <3
Well see haha
>I'll send you a friend req, like I said, I love playing the therapist, that's my goal when I get back into education
I think you'll do quite well. Sympathy is everywhere, but genuine empathy is a rare gift
>Scottish
I quite like the accents. I'd love to visit the UK one day. I'd much rather spend time in Northern England and Scotland than in London or the south. Don't know what it is. Feels colder and grittier, but the idea of having a pint at the pub with a bunch of people on a cold rainy night sounds comfy to me. Probably cause it's cold and rainy where I'm from too haha
>picrel <3
Very cute wholesome images

>>40031629 (OP)
You sound like a Reddit bisexual. I hope you’re aware that you won’t find 14 year old anime twinks at a gay bar and femboys only exist online

>>40032489
I'm not looking for a 14 year old. Also fuck reddit.

>>40032300
>Nah, he was a reaction
>I can tell you as a 12 year old white boy being blamed for colonialism, it never sat well with me or with my friends
>The compilations are also just a reaction
The reason I'm saying trump was the start of when it began leaking, because backlash to the heirarchy of victims was an undercurrent of the time before, but only became acceptable and mainstream when trump was running
the reason he won was becuase hillary won on being a woman first, and president second whereas he ran on being for the common man, it feels fucking constructed when I look back at it, but that's more conspiratorial than I like to believe, but it was perfect for the generation of dudes who where sick of being told being a guy is wrong
the compilations and tubers of the time, have since gone on to have prominent careers in shaping the right wing
>jordan peterson
>ben shabibo
>sargon of akhaad (to a lesser british extent)
these people just making cringe vids have since gone on to be talking to people in ridiculously high levels of government, so I don't think it was just a reaction, it helped breed the current "manosphere" we have today that further perpetuates the gender war

>We feel that we were treated with hate
I'm not gonna quote your entire paragraph, but ye, that's really well put
>especially for an American <_<
and I agree, high level discourse weaponised by stupid people has just harmed the whole world, when tumblr aged girls blamed the boys in their class for patriarchy instead of the billionaires and the people in the houses of parliament, it was a lost cuase
Identity politics isn't inherently bad, but using it like a bat to swing others out of the way is ;-;

it's a thread about a straight guy who is mildly bi who failed with women not because of any shortcoming of his own but because he is completely redundant and is contemplating looking to feminine men for affection but feels like a failure for doing so. he is drinking twisted teas and it paints a depressing scene. it's a commentary on 21st century. particularly bleak.

bump

>>40031720
Don't expect gay men to have any better an average for treating you like a human. Not to say none of them will, but if you looked long enough you'd find some women that wouldn't objectify you too. It's just not likely, that's the human condition. Most people don't care what happens to you. Best advice I can give is stick to your boundaries and try your best, be yourself even if it isn't a turn on to most people. At least that way you'll be attracting the right sort..

this thread really triggered me many times deeply. everything may be true but you have to have a positive outlook to be healthy and happy. what i found during my repper phase in my younger years was that incels and men who struggle with women in general don't actually want to fuck women. if you actually love women and want to fuck women they will love that energy and be receptive. since i'm a fag, i didn't. but when i took steroids to rep, i finally got that desire and they reciprocated. it was inevitable and it finally all made sense. the difference is so stark once you have that high t headspace. you can't be moping around with this asexual energy, all political and thinky, and expect women to want to spend their time with you. i mean, you can, but not the kind of women who go out clubbing lol. you would need to find like fujo girls into anime and introverted interests like arts and crafts. and even then, you'll still benefit from having a higher more extroverted, high t sex drive.

>>40034779
and to add: since you like talking to yourself and introspecting (this is a gift and multiple anons noticed your well developed insights) you should definitely continue to develop this, keep working on your writing. just try to avoid the pitfall of wanting society to burn and blaming others. no matter how much sense it seems like it makes, it's actually illogical because it doesn't benefit you. the extension of the thought is negative, demoralizing, self defeating, and so on. yes the mean looks women give you are a brutal microaggression that pierce the soul, and when repeated over and over, can make you feel like everything is meaningless and hopeless. but like the other anon said, it's just that type of women who goes clubbing. you played football in high school and have a straight passing gender conforming background. there are many fags on this board who have success with women despite neither of those things, so you have a big edge. you just need to get healthy again, hit the gym and get a job, any job to get you sleeping at night and awake and around people during the day. i don't think you should fuck twinks because you have rightfully recognized that it's coming from a place of perceived failure, you need to work on your health and fitness and get your sex drive up, but you also might want to work on overcoming your internalized homophobia too. i would overall advise you to try to get out of your head, away from the thinkythinky headspace, and try to get into a more active, life in the moment headspace. continue to write as an outlet for your thinking side, but strive for balance between living and thinking. under the MBTI framework this would be S vs N, you are too deep in an N rabbithole of excessive introspection. introspection and writing is good if you are processing your feelings and making art out of it but if it is negatively impacting your life then you need a wake up, a change.