I'm not a tranny but I do consider myself pro trans. I feel like the anti trans backlash wouldn't be as bad if you'd just conceded the sports issue and not let hons in women's sports. I think Lia was extremely fucking selfish, so many normies were radicalised into being and trans into seeing Lia and his big square masculine shoulders competing against cis girls.
The anti trans backlash would've still happened, but people like Lia made it worse by giving the right easy ammunition.

>>40073284 (OP)
>if you'd just conceded the sports issue
i tried so so so hard. doesn't matter though because i will get caught in the backlash regardless

i did, unfortunately many are FUCKING RETAAAARDDDSSSS FUCKKK YOU FUCK YOU HONS FUCK YOU OLDSHITS FUCK YOU RAPEHONS DIE DIE DIE

Lia Thomas, Dylan Mulvaney, and the "It's Maam" hon have done an immeasurable amount of damage to the trans movement.

>>40073298
>>40073300
I feel bad for you two. Hons really ruined it for everyone.

>>40073284 (OP)
>normies were radicalised into being and trans into seeing Lia
Fuck me sorry, I meant to write
>plenty of normies were radicalised into being anti trans by seeing Lia

Professional sports are dumb, and before that women were very vocal about being equal to men, pretty sure they let her in just to prove them wrong. Of course that hurt transgirls more than anything but they are happy to destroy us just to prove a point.
What people need to understand is that her decisions are her responsibility, no other transperson should suffer from their mistakes, most transwomen aren't even into sports so we should just stop blaming groups and focusing on individual wrongdoers.

>>40073304
lia thomas, its maam, chrischan, etc. i get
genuinely what did dylan do though? i didn't really follow that arc

>>40073304
dont forget Lilytino, the ultimate psychological warfare operative

>>40073351
IIRC she did a smear campaign for bud light and went against the chuds

>>40073351
Dylan didn't do anything as bad as the others, she mainly id the Bud Lite commercial where she looked weird and creepy

>>40073392
>>40073387
>bud light
hot take for this board but she really didnt do anything wrong for taking the bug light deal. maybe a little naive but that was just a case of chuds flipping out over nothing. lia thomas and other sportshons genuinely should not be competing in womens' sports due to an unfair advantage

People genuine care about sports? Why? Can you not do something else with your time...? Maybe acrylic painting, snow boarding, hell you can even bird watch. I cannot fathom people who care this much about a single hobby.

>>40073833
I know, it was just chuds being delicate bitches as usual, they made such a huge deal about it. I never found a reason to show support for the trans community aside from some validation, but seeing how they behaved pushed me to pick a side.

>>40073284 (OP)
lia mogs me tbhon

>>40073284 (OP)
i think if were talking laws, we need legal recognition of "transitioning" status that disqualifies one from all but nonbinary competition. we cant have this fucking on off switch mentality with being trans, its nonsense and its hurting everyone involved. you dont instantly become female by injecting some E. its a cumulative effect over years. we need this recognised in law to overcome this problem and unfortunately it cannot be done by anyone other than actual good actors who are pro-trans.

we need to drag that "sex is a spectrum not a binary" graph into actual fucking conversations and make it a recognised reality or were never getting anywhere. gender is a dead horse.

>>40073284 (OP)
Funniest thing is that men's divisions are considered open league, i.e., anyone can join regardless of gender. It's the women's league that is exclusionary, for *cis* women only.
If you really love the sport why don't you just continue in open league instead of ruining it for everyone?

leave it to the socially inept troons who dont understand the whole point of sports and a fair competition to fight tooth and nail for the right to murk girls half their size. the divisions in weight classes, age, sex, experience and various other things is ensure everyone competes on a fair level playing field and that no one has an unfair advantage which is to only be judged by ones individual skill in your class.

>>40073284 (OP)
If Lia Thomas was even half as attractive as Riley Gaines this wouldn't be an issue because the world sucks and I hate it here

>>40073304
Lily Tino is doing some work at the moment too.

>>40073284 (OP)
yeah. i was never on their side. guess who's still getting the backlash regardless!
the conversation is more nuanced for passoids who genuinely have a largely indistinguishable bodyplan from cis women, but hons never should have been allowed into womens sports. i think if open leagues arent viable that there would be some sort of measurement or performance limit like in motor racing sports, to where skill matters more than being a freak of nature

>>40074482
because its labeled as the mens league.
if it were called the open league, trans women wouldnt have an issue participating, i think its just that simple.

>>40073284 (OP)
I refuse to believe this image isn’t photoshopped. Not cause it’s good for anti-trans propaganda but because I refuse to believe the human body can look like that.

>>40073284 (OP)
>You should've conceded the sports issue
Do you think trannies have some sort of an organized government that decides what issues we fight for or concede? Are you stupid?

>>40074382
It's pretty simple really if you have a Y chromosome you can't compete in women's sports.

>>40073939
Hot guys fighting

>>40075469
this is a mentally ill post with no grasp of reality
the y chromosome is not determinate at all, to the point of only correlatory relevance at best to the phenotype you perceive as advantaged and therefore not belonging.

>>40075469
those CAIS women aren't gonna have a good time anon

>>40073939
People care about biological women having a fair shot. Trannies in their clubs prevent that. How is that hard to understand?\
>>40075436
>the conversation is more nuanced for passoids who genuinely have a largely indistinguishable bodyplan from cis women
This is why you're on the other end of the stick. No tranny, not even Hunter Schafer, is indistinguishable from a natal woman. Accept your difference.
>>40075454
You have countless lobbying and activism groups, NGOs, etc...
>>40075482
>>40075486
Why do you ignore the binary gametic configuration? If you want to poo-poo chromosomes, then people can invoke the size of your gametes.

>>40075500
>You have countless lobbying and activism groups, NGOs, etc...
Yeah and none of them have some sort of supreme power over the others which means that they are all free to do whatever they want

>>40075500
>why do you ignore the binary gametic configuration?
what does that have to do with the testosterone-immune cis women you wanna throw in mens sports
>people can invoke the size of your gametes
i don't think i make those

>>40075512
>>40075513
Aren't you all facing the pressure right now? Wouldn't it be a good time to pivot? Gay men didn't die on the hill of bareback bathhouses. They tried to acquiesce to social norms by at least pursuing monogamous marriage.

>>40073284 (OP)
WE DID
I've yet to meet a single trans woman who think Lea Thomas should be allowed to compete at the olympics.
What I've heard is "I wish the baby boomers would stop acting like I personally was in charge of the olympics just because I'm trans."

>>40075533
i don't die on the hill of trans women in sports im >>40073298 i just had to point out that making a one size fits all solution based on chromosomes is flawed... everything always should be case by case

Hons in sports is a CIA psyop to incite division and fake issues. That said I have no problem with youngshits working out recreationally with girls

>>40075500
because its not deterministic. biological sex is absolutely mutable, and there is nothing you can say to deny that reality. its hormones now, but for how long? weve already had people experimenting with CRISPR induced intersex anatomy.

the fuck are you gonna say when its 8 year old gayboys going to the doctor for DMRT1 knockout injections?

>>40075550
>>40075551
>>40075570
>>40075602
You all have no sense of strategy. Everything has been approached backwards. You want to try putting the medical bird back in its cage, after its been perched on a corrosive political movement for years now. I'm saying this as a straight male tourist.

>>40075884
when did i say that? transhumanism is a medicalist position, its just an anarchic one.

the idea of producing effective changes to the reality of biological sex is the core of /tttt/s understanding of transition, biohacking beyond the confines of established medical recommendations isnt just synergic with that its the logical next step. its why we have a disproportionate amount of trannies fucking around with weird drugs, or looking onto the genetic aspects of it with an eye to affecting change, or trying to remove hair with mrna therapy.

the christians werent dealt with in the 90s and 00s by optics, they were beaten because their perception of reality was beaten to a pulp and spat on by the better parts of gen x, and to some extent the baby boomers. we need to start putting these people in the same position as creationists because they more or less are.

>>40073284 (OP)
>You
I did but im not the head of the trans cabal that decides these things. now we all get to be collectively punished because of delulu hons.

Didn't she get fucking fifth place? Literally what is the problem, rightoid grifts will happen no matter what until they kill us all

>>40075980
Well you're clearly lost. Do you want to bring down all the other well-meaning people too?

>>40075999
has this ever worked out for you? when in the last 15 years has being a super good girl who doesnt ask for anything and apologises meekly when shes slapped worked for you politically? or are you still on oral E and spiro from the doctor like a good girl, just like the girls back in 2012 were?

>>40075884
>you want to try putting the medical bird back in its cage
yeah how dare i wanna undo a huge disaster for my people can't imagine why i would wanna do that. seriously what's the other option? what are your thoughts?

>>40076032
I am this natal male: >>40075884
Keep up. I'd prefer to see youth transition illegal, and trans people barred from female sports. Which is why I think it'd be better for you to pivot, before times run out. You've been trying to domineer the discourse for years now, and it's not going to work anymore.
>>40076056
>Gay men didn't die on the hill of bareback bathhouses. They tried to acquiesce to social norms by at least pursuing monogamous marriage.

>>40073304
dylan won

>>40073284 (OP)
The sports question was already settled. Individual sporting bodies set rules for trans competitors, because every sport is different, and each case is reviewed individually because every trans person is different.
The sports backlash was manufactured and pushed by people whose agendas go far beyond discriminating against trannies, we're just the most convenient distraction/wedge issue for them to pick up on right now. If trans people as a whole had all immediately left sports, it works have been a different issue, bathrooms, access to care, schools. That push would have been just as effective, because the issue isn't with sports, its with whatever the powers that be decide it is.
I'm not sure whether the best way to stop the forward march against us is to fight each step, or to disappear entirely, but I think we would lose a lot by going back to being underground.

>>40076070
id like to see you dragged to a camp and have your genitals drilled out with the rest of the heterosexual pederasts you so clearly want to imitate, but desu ill happily settle for us just getting more of what we want.

why are you trying to be a sad imitation of a straight man?

>>40076092
You're doing a great job at convincing the wider public, buddy. Keep it up. Natal women love to compete with natal men, I'm sure they'd love to tell you.

>>40076117
your sacred "natal" women whos feet you lap at are closeted homophobes and always have been. even most of the gay friendly ones are NIMBYs about it. any kid but mine.

meanwhile, whats that i keep hearing from female members of team sports? "fuck off, we have no issue playing with MtFs and we dont need your fucking paternalistic bs"? gee i wonder what other category of people whos toes you might be treading on there.

as for the wider public, theyre nonces and always have been. the only reason they dont beat the shit out of us for being gay anymore is because theyve been bullied out of it and so they repress that desire.

>>40075500
when cisfoids think Hunter is considered a passoid by trannies it makes me smile because i know i get by better than i think

>>40076070
that literally doesn't answer my question even at all
are you saying im the gay men here? or that im not? is transmedicalism marriage or the bathhouse?

>>40076156
I don't care what their beliefs are. They're entitled to play in free & fair sporting clubs. You can play in an open-sex or LGBT club if you'd really like. Are you British or Australian? Because I assure you, women will express, and have expressed to me, how they really feel about this. Them being shouted down if they voice it publically is the true paternalism here.
>>40076189
First, I'm not female.
Second, it's a throwaway example. In principle, especially when it comes to sporting, every natal male is distinguishable from a natal female. Even if they've got a DSD, or blocked their natural puberty development. Sex is biologically immutable. You either have large or small gametes, and in natural correspondence, primary & secondary sexual characteristics will follow from that.

>>40076218
>women will express, and have expressed to me, how they really feel about this.
1) which women? do they play team sports?
2) i dont actually believe you, desu. youre a gayden on 4chan seeking out conflict with gayboys on estrogen, odds are youre just bitter about the shifting social situation within gay circles and the decline of traditional gay culture and experiences.

>>40076218
>Even if they've got a DSD, or blocked their natural puberty development..
>You either have large or small gametes, and in natural correspondence, primary & secondary sexual characteristics will follow from that.

>blocked their natural puberty development
>natural primary and secondary sex characteristics will follow from that

you're just wrong you fucking retard. it will thrill you to know i literally didn't make my college's rugby team because i was outperformed by the other girls. you just clearly don't know what you're talking about but, that's ok! you're unfamiliar

>>40076218
>sex is biologically immutable
men aren't so much stronger than women that literally every amab is stronger than literally every afab retard, puberty here matters a lot, intersex conditions and hormones will change it to a degree too, BUT ITS DEFINITELY NOT BASED ON GAMETES LMFAO
intersex people often produce no gametes and an amab intersex person who doesn't go through a conventional male puberty is not gonna produce small gametes or be as strong as cis men

>>40076190
Trans people in women's sports & youth transition to me, are the bareback bathhouses equivalent. A free adult, psychologically able, that wishes to transition, is what I see as the politically palatable path for you all.
>>40076236
Believe what you want to believe. Just know that the tide is fixing to turn.
>>40076255
Go women! What is your disputation with the existence of a gametic binary, exactly?
>>40076262
>intersex people often produce no gametes
[citation needed]
Do you know what gametes are?

>>40076272
>Just know that the tide is fixing to turn.
weve just watched you crash the global economy through sheer fucking stupidity. why the fuck do you think youre in line to get global power?

>>40076255
the first step to transphobia is to believe that biological sex is a flawless magical distinction that literally has no variation
men are from mars women are from venus

>>40073284 (OP)
If they conceded on the sports issue it would have just been something else. You'd have to concede on trans even being people to make everyone happy.

>>40076277
I am Australian. You can look up what Queensland's health ministry thinks of the whole matter. Other states will be soon to follow.
>>40076278
You're not going to help your people by misconstruing your interjectors.

>>40076272
ok i have no interest in your palatable path then if it involves refusing to medically treat teenagers because their condition is icky
>citation needed
this is a pretty commonly known thing ill let you google it. go with klinefelter's they are infertile. yes im aware what gametes are, you just don't understand human biology as much as you think you do if you think everyone makes them or that sex is immutable or that cais women are actually men and stronger than every woman because of their y chromosome

>>40076302
>misconstruing
see >>40076218
>every natal male is distinguishable from a natal female. Even if they've got a DSD, or blocked their natural puberty development. Sex is biologically immutable. You either have large or small gametes, and in natural correspondence, primary & secondary sexual characteristics will follow from that.
im not misconstruing him, he actually believes that

>>40076302
yeah were watching gen x do boomer shit now theyre old and demented and in charge of minor institutions, enjoy it while it lasts. i dont think global capital is going to let you thick, illiterate fucks keep hold of any power you get.

>>40076272
i dont have a disputation with a gametic binary..? i'm saying that the benefits afforded from being born male are essentially null in adult transsexuals who transitioned as children. in my experience, as one of those, i fall on the mid to low end of athletic ability among my cis peers.
it's not even like i'm some lard, i have an 18 BMI and did Tae Kwon Do for 12 years as a child, i did track in middle school before i transitioned.
I think we probably agree more than you think, if anyone can even tell that the competitor is trans they should absolutely not be competing with natal women. it's just laughable to read what you're saying given my experience of falling completely in line physically with my cisfoid peers

>>40076335
A person with DSD or who may be hormonally inhibited is still categorically a male or female. Small or large gametes. It's a bang-on correspondence. This is why I request that you accept your difference, as a feminised natal male. Same with that intersex Algerian boxer, who was found to be a natal male.
>>40076316
My political beliefs aren't out of disgust, but a shaky ground of evidence to justify it. We've ceased respected medical treatments for far less. And this medical treatment isn't even respected in many countries' health institutions. And no, you aren't aware of what gametes are. I suggest you check again.
>>40076336
I'm 20 years old. Your revolution will not come. Wax on, wax off about capital all you like, but you'll find the world moving past you before you know it.
>>40076350
I understand, but I don't think your individual experience is significant enough in regards to a broader movement, like what this thread is about.

>>40076389
>I don't think your individual experience is significant enough in regards to a broader movement, like what this thread is about.
fuck we agree completely :/ could we just keep arguing for fun? i'm trying to kill some time :(

>>40073304
all were catalysed by tiktok

>>40076389
>but you'll find the world moving past you before you know it.
your primary voterbase for this is tired old men and women. your movement only exists because old people got radicalised in 2020 by realising that there were gays online and they were talking where they could hear. prior to that we were memeing about trans strasserites. the bulk of baby boomers die off in 10 years, thats your time limit. every generation is progressively more gay than the last and in spite of a lot of yelling younger women are not as homophobic and transphobic as older women are.

with that in mind, do you think youll outlast neoliberal financial interest?

>>40076422
I don't think that communists can convince people to give up their private property without the insurrectionary violence seen in the Russian civil war. And in that event, it certainly will not end well for the communists. We will see a return to black-shirts and brown-shirts itching for a torn social contract, who are very well suited to take on the communists.

But then, neoliberalism is an amorphous concept. Are you wanting a return to protectionism? Are you against free trade? Do you want a welfare state? Even when that welfare state weighs down the productive class that keeps the state afloat? Even when many nominally 'neoliberal' countries kept a substantial social net?

>>40076398
I'm spending my time poorly, I only saw this post on the front-page. I wish you luck on your endeavors, in any case.

>>40076454
what the actual fuck are you talking about? neoliberalism has been one of the most homogenising economic forces to ever exist, very little differs between EU capitalism and anglosphere capitalism in the bulk of cases. both wear a mask of convenient placations to suit the local populations of their constituent nations but never let it get in the way of their interests.

>>40076482
You are a communist, no? You dislike people producing capital via their private property? 'Neoliberalism' as a concept is this vague hodge-podge of concepts and disparate beliefs cooked up by neo-Marxists and confused socialists to do the same nostalgic wanking that fascists and nazis indulge in. I'm trying to find out what specifically you are talking about. Nothing that you just said helps. Explain the similarities between Tony Blair and Paul Keating and Augusto Pinochet and Javier Milei.

>>40076389
>still categorically a male or female
i agree
>small or large gametes
i don't agree with making gametes the basis of sex, and in that case many intersex people are genuinely neither.
>feminized natal male
will not be the same as a cis man as i thought you were implying earlier. i don't see a reason to make a big deal about natal sex in trannies on hrt though especially those who pass.
>intersex algerian boxer
was found to be natally female with an intersex condition that caused something similar to male puberty no? she's not natally male as in actually AMAB by a doctor, i don't think you can even transition in algeria
>we've ceased respected medical treatments for far less
source needed
>you aren't aware of what gametes are
i genuinely think you aren't if you're still arguing about this, many intersex people do not and never have produced gametes. many trannies don't either and some of them never have either. what's our point of disagreement? if i dont know what gametes are please enlighten me because i dont understand what you're trying to say

>>40073284 (OP)
Its not like average tranner had anything do with any of that. Its boomer libshit HR ladies making the rules in college sports

>>40076506
holy fuck you brainwashed retard

>>40076509
>Biological sex is defined as a binary variable in every sexually reproducing plant and animal species. With a few exceptions, all sexually reproducing organisms generate exactly two types of gametes that are distinguished by their difference in size: females, by definition, produce large gametes (eggs) and males, by definition, produce small and usually motile gametes (sperm).[9-12] This distinct dichotomy in the size of female and male gametes is termed “anisogamy” and refers to a fundamental principle in biology
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202200173
This paper can explain it better than I can. I don't have the background in biology to explain it in the language that will appease you.
>>40076534
I'm not the one whose bought whole and sale into gender ideology. You started this retarded tangent into political economics, I gave you your answer. Maybe you should express your worldview more clearly, than just throwing out 'muh neoliberalism'.

>>40076611
maybe i shouldnt because youre nothing but a sad, timewasting cuck whos probably on some faggots payroll and has never sucked a cock in his life.

>>40076618
Okay, goodnight. Leave women & children alone, thanks.
https://files.catbox.moe/tvwjd9.mp4

Troons would have a easier time not seeming insane if that stopped pretending men can become women and instead simply went with the “we know this is a male but they have a mental condition where pretending they are a woman helps male them happy”. But instead they try to convince people “the science” says biological sex doesnt exist and yada yada.
You can come up with a million ways to say how rolling around is similar to walking but you’ll never convince people a paraplegic in a wheel chair can “scientifically real walk”

>>40076639
>children
Nta but what is this children thing? I was a tranny kid and all I ever got was neglected. Now all of a sudden the world is worried about the kids?

>>40073284 (OP)
There’s nothing to be conceded, all of the actual evidence on the matter indicates that trannies don’t have a significant advantage. If conservatives get to lie their way into getting what they want on this issue, they’ll do it on other issues too.

>>40076665
i think it's more similar to saying that someone with a prosthetic leg is walking but i see what you mean
>male with a mental disorder
most transsexuals already think like this, although i will say that the medical consensus doesn't exactly back you up.
we apply for and receive "Sex Reassignment Surgery" following which our medical records read "female"
We think we are female because we get surgery to become female that the doctors say makes us female.
Pre-Sex Change trannies are not female this is trve

>>40076676
they don't give a shit about the welfare of trans kids, they just think it's icky for them to receive treatment. transphobia is usually not as intellectual as people here give it credit for, most of the time they really are just "grossed out"

>>40076611
damn i cant believe that in evolutionary biology they might only consider breeding individuals. there are intersex animals too lmao and infertile animals.
>i don't have the background in biology
ive been waiting for this lmao
when you're studying animal reproduction you're gonna study the reproducing ones, but you have to realize that in your worldview the mule is a sexless animal

>>40076697
The doctors saying it makes you female doesn’t make it true

>>40076747
if not medical biologists, then who defines human sex? you?

>>40076189
lol yeah there are enough bricky manfaced women that all the trannies i see on here crying about being neverpassers could easily get by on plausible deniability.

>>40076665
you're misunderstanding the biological sex debate in this thread it's not even about trannies anymore we have an infertility denier in here
>mental condition where pretending they are a woman helps
i don't think that we're literally just men aside from that, but more study needs to be done on trannies before i can be 100% confident in saying that.
>wheelchair example
it's considered rude to go up to someone in a wheelchair and be like hey you're in a wheelchair you can't walk you'll never walk again you can't walk haha
if you also believe you shouldnt do that with trannies i think you're cool

>>40076711
>tfw they care about the kids
>but not u though
Greaaaaat....

>>40076734
>While we fully endorse efforts to create a more inclusive environment for gender-diverse people, this does not require denying biological sex. On the contrary, the rejection of biological sex seems to be based on a lack of knowledge about evolution and it champions species chauvinism, inasmuch as it imposes human identity notions on millions of other species.
Why don't you want to read the paper? Do you have a background education in biology? A degree? At least I have the humility to proclaim what I did.
Do you realise that all humans are born to be breeding individuals? Just because there is an abnormal reproductive path, or a synthetic interruption of your natural systems, it does not change the binary configuration of sex. If I may put it to an example:

Think of two individual roads, splitting from the reproductive freeway. Each of these roads has an off-road beaten path, carved by a car that was trying to find an alternate way to its destination. The car keeps veering away from the paved road's destination, but it still thinks it's heading the right way. That's a DSD. Sprouts from the same tree-branch as an individual sex, just misshapen and unhealthy.

>>40076676
Look, I cannot control the actions of others. But I could not unconscionably neglect a child in visible distress. This is part of my belief system. I do not believe the distress is resolved through transition. There is just not enough evidence for it. Do you listen to Jesse Singal? He represents my beliefs well, albeit he's far more liberal.

>>40076834
*could not conscionably

>>40076834
The distress was resolved through transition though. My dysphoria disappeared after hrt and top surgery, anything else would have just been agony for no reason.
>Do you listen to Jesse Singal?
Never heard of him...

>>40076834
Statistically transitioning people decreases their likelihood of suicide, it doesn't really matter what it is, its just a procedure where doing it to people who want it tends to have a better impact than not doing it.

>>40076834
as a former trans kid and now a happy trans adult with a pretty regular life i can tell you 1000000% that transition alleviates dysphoria. are you stupid?

>>40076875
>3rd
they didn't even! the fuck are you cunts crying about? they're not even number one.

>>40076875
is this fucker even in the same age bracket?

>>40076881
Listen to Jesse Singal speak about these studies.
>>40076869
Great, it sort of worked for you. Are you fine with a guy vaginally penetrating you? How have you felt not being seen as the sex you'd like to be seen as?
>>40076892
I vehemently object to the 'trans kid', concept. You may have been a child with gender dysphoria, but there are many children with gender dysphoria who wouldn't have, or aren't, better off transitioning. How do you differentiate these groups?

>>40076875
>ranks 3rd in state
>3rd

>>40076218
is foidness a disability? why is your kind even allowed to be alive

>>40076924
jesse singal is a butthurt buttraped retard that often makes shit up just to get attention like a whore it is

>>40076924
gender dysphoria does not fade with age, if anything it intensifies. the premise of there being alternative treatment is false, that's what we did for decades and it didn't work. every single respected medical organization in the world recognizes hormonal intervention as the treatment for gender dysphoria in adolescents, based on ~100 years of trial and error. If a child outgrows GD, it wasn't GD. It seems like you just wish the testing was more thorough and gatekept, and in that we agree

>>40076834
>I do not believe the distress is resolved through transition.
and I don't believe birds are real. What is your point exactly? No one gives a fuck what you believe, the le sciencerino says gender dysphoria appears as early as pre pubertal and going thru "wrong" puberty causes both emotional distress and irreversible changes to physical characteristics. It can be avoided by using puberty blockers which are mostly safe and don't cause serious side effects. Gender dysphoria can only be cured by transition, no other methods was proven effective and it's best method to increase quality of life of trans people. Untreated can lead to serious mental distress and even suicide
Obviously no one should put kids on hrt until they get properly examined by doctors which should take at least few months. Any questions?

>>40073284 (OP)
completely agree this was a mistake
>>40073939
also agree, but c'mon
> say ppl should have other hobbies than sports
> lists examples
> snowboarding, a sport, is one of them
really?

>>40076942
I'm a man. A natal male as you are a natal female.
>>40076951
No need to get libelous. You can go back to bluesky if you can't handle the heat.
>>40076958
It often fades for adolescents who are struggling with their homosexuality. There is evidence for this. There are many adolescents who flirt with gender norms and expectations in their youth, kids with autism, etc...
>>40076969
Nope. You can't invoke the science here. You and I both know it's insufficient. Faultier than Chink electronics. Also, at least a few months, seriously? That's your olive branch?

>>40076676
hets and hetlarpers project their child molestation habits onto us. they think we forgot how they tried to groom us as children and were dangerously close to accusing them of it, so they project that onto us.

>>40076639
gnight pederast

>>40076924
>Listen to Jesse Singal speak about these studies

>>40076834
>Do you listen to Jesse Singal? He represents my beliefs well
You don’t have to tell us you’re a “just asking questions” type of concern troll, that much was abundantly clear already.

>>40073351
his whole shtick is making fun of women because being a flamboyant gay man wasn't getting him enough attention he's not even trans lol

>>40076810
>why don't you want to read the paper
tired n lazy and not in a super serious mode of debate rn
>do you have a background education in biology?
i was raised by biologists and was seeking a bio degree for a while before changing. so id say i have some background but i am definitely not an expert and my knowledge is somewhat rusty
>the rejection of biological sex
i don't do this aside from thinking there isn't much good reason to bring up a tranny's biological sex. name some examples of when you think it's relevant if you like, i just think that it doesn't really matters outside of a dating/family planning context
>do you realize all humans are born to be breeding individuals
there are so many people who aren't though. plus we are cultural animals so basing our purposes entirely off of our bodies doesn't make much sense to me. i don't even think it makes sense to you, i seriously doubt you live your day to day life only thinking about reproducing.
>the binary configuration of sex
again, what about the people (and animals) born that will never produce gametes? they exist. are they sexless?
>misshapen unhealthy branches
what use is a worldview like this it's not like they can fix it lmao

>>40077005
>there is evidence for this
show me one piece that i can take seriously as someone with a bachelors in biological science and i will believe you, but, you won't because it's not true. Your podcast daddy is grifting you buddy

>>40077005
>nothing but seething in response
You can't deny that and it's true. He is an attention whoring retard
>kids with autism are drooling 3 yo tards
lol

>>40073300
you're cis tho

>>40077046
i'm just a youngshit it's a meme

>>40076611
>goymann
the jokes write themselves

>>40077005
>Nope. You can't invoke the science here. You and I both know it's insufficient. Faultier than Chink electronics. Also, at least a few months, seriously? That's your olive branch?
Just what is your point? Literally, what do you expect? It's brand new field of science and medicine, you can't expect everything to work perfectly. My solution is to study it more and come with an answer, your solution is to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. It's extremely rare phenomenon anyway

>>40077013
>>40077014
Okay, I'm done. The 'you're hecking asking questions in... bad faith, chud!' is here. Lord, I tried my hardest. You people need a reality check.
https://files.catbox.moe/hrmhul.mp4
>>40077035
Ask Grok, faggot. I've been spoonfeeding dozens of you in just this single thread.
>>40077041
I'm not seething, you've actually increased my disdain for you and your compatriots. This is really the hill you're going to die on. You want to get into the weeds on biological sex, when someone says you shouldn't interrupt fair sporting for natal women. I encounter less pilpul at my local Shabbos service.
>>40077070
You can scour through my posts and look for it. Do what you want. Things are going to swing hard for all of you.
>>40077061
Why are trannies, fags, commies, niggers, and browns -- all proud of their anti-semitism? It only makes me want to commit another mitzvot. Leftie Jews aren't going to protect you anymore, like they used to. You're done without them.

>>40077005
>ermm we shouldnt give the 24 year old toddlers anything they should actually be stuffed with organ rotting lobotomizers until uh 30 years old because ackshually the brain doesnt mature until 35 and this is a compromise tranny also ignore my nose give me the government award yesss

>>40077095
>actually a jew
LMAOOOOOOOOOO CALLED IT
keep seething little kike everybody sees through your bullshit

>>40077095
>Ask Grok, faggot.
god your gray matter is fucking moldy. you literally cannot bring in a single source to back your claim except "i heard it online!1!!1!!"
you sound so fucking retarded rn man i hope you realize that

>>40077095
baiting used to be believable, now please fuck off to /pol/

>>40076924
>Are you fine with a guy vaginally penetrating you?
For shame brother, that's not very appropriate. But I don't care about vaginal penetration it's fine.
>How have you felt not being seen as the sex you'd like to be seen as?
I don't care what people think my "sex" is, though I'm more concerned about what "gender" I'm being perceived as.
>>40076924
>but there are many children with gender dysphoria who wouldn't have, or aren't, better off transitioning. How do you differentiate these groups?
Did this ever matter? Why do we have to worry about them regretting it?

>>40077150
because their fertility, and the fact that their foreskin wasnt cut up at infancy and will be in adulthood instead, or something
but seriously he's just bullshitting like all hooknoses

>>40076969
>seriously no one should put kids on hrt until they get properly examined by doctors which should take at least a few months
i have good news about the overwhelming majority of underage transition cases (inc mine)

>>40076509
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/new-updates/imane-khelif-is-man-leaked-lal-pathlabs-report-unveils-the-dark-reality-of-the-olympic-gold-medalist/articleshow/121584973.cms?from=mdr

The test, conducted by India-based Dr Lal PathLabs in March 2023, stated plainly: “Chromosome analysis reveals male karyotype.”

>>40077113
You don't realise how much this titillates me. The whole world is at my disposal. Any door is opened with a shook hand and a stimulating conversation. I have a community everywhere I go, no one but the hideous dregs of the Earth take issue with my faith. Meanwhile, you have the blot of the tranny in every relationship, every passing eye, every averted gaze. It's a blessing to be a Jew. What is it to be a troon?
>>40077126
Nigger, I'm done with being cordial after getting dogpiled on by every ugly tranny on this board. I was trying to help you at the beginning.
>>40077147
It's a lot of effort for bait.
>>40077175
Aren't you supposed to be thankful for the leftie Jews like Magnus Hirschfield for birthing your movement? How do I know your history better than you do?

>>40077202
And now the mask comes off, to the surprise of no one.

>>40077185
yes i am aware that she has a male karyotype. but considering she was raised as a girl in algeria im gonna guess she was assigned female at birth. in fact im pretty sure the whole thing was that shes XY afab who was a normal girl until puberty where she masculinized. she's not a trans woman.
anyways you shouldn't trust weird ass news sites from india covered in ads, get your info from better places

>>40077202
>i was trying to help you
help me what? i've been cordial with you this whole time, you can go back and read my responses. i only snapped at you when you called me a faggot

>>40073284 (OP)
To be fair, the sports issue did take attention away from all the trannies who were starting to proclaim “ummm actually trans women ARE biologically female” and “unmm actually trans women DO get periods too.” If those had gone as viral as the sports issue instead, I think things would be orders of magnitude worse for trannies.

I want trannies to be more accepted, it’s in my interest as a chaser. But when you let your movement be co-opted by autistic people (actually literally autistic), that’s game over for your movement. Autistic people loathe optics.

Also, if “trans girls need their diapers” ever reaches Fox News, they might literally start killing you guys

>>40077224
I call you a faggot not because you are a faggot but because you've all coalesced into this blob of faggotry after the posts I've made.

Here is a study, at 12% persistence, 88% desistance. 2021:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8039393/

I'm not going to look for more tonight. Ask ChatGPT for the data.
>>40077215
You poor thing. Where do you think we are? Someone called me a kike, I call him a troon. Fair's fair.

>>40077284
>actually, literally autistic
hey :(
>autistic people loathe optics
i love optics
>diapers on fox news
TRVKE it's actually the biggest optics timebomb and if it pops we're actually gonna get tranny camps

>>40077288
>here is a study at 12% persistance 88% desistance. 2021
the group was gathered in the 80s and the followup was in 2002. the children were 8, of course they had a majority desistance rate. i dont think anybody oh this board argues for 8 year olds transitioning. desistance rates in late teens and adults are in the single digits

>>40077284
>and “unmm actually trans women DO get periods too.”
thank god the weird dude with bad hair on tiktok got so much hate the trend died right there

>a clearly joking guy gets banned
>trolling particular falseflagger is still up with all criticism banned
Shalom

>>40077288
To add to what >>40077328 said, the diagnostic criteria in this study was significantly more lax than the current standard, many of the children in this study would only have been diagnosed for being GNC. And just to drive home the part about the children being 8, Zucker himself said that desistance is extremely unlikely after adolescence.

>>40077365
*just to clarify, by “after adolescence” I mean when the child has reached adolescence.

>>40073284 (OP)
>you should've conceded the bathroom issue
>you should've conceded the youth transition issue
>you should've conceded the access to hormones for adults issue
lol

>>40073833
Using a tranny in your advertising for a product exclusively consumed by lower class Christians just isn't wise at all, Dylan being an ugly ghoul aside.

>>40077563
what if they used a lower class Christian tranny

>>40073284 (OP)
>so many normies were radicalised into being and trans into seeing Lia and his big square masculine shoulders competing against cis girls.
they actually weren't
they were "radicalized" by hearing that a trans woman was competing, because they were already evil and looking for excuses. you can show them a picture of katie ledecky and tell them it's lia and they'll react exactly the same way.

>>40077589
What if they used a nascar driver or sportsball player? You know, something not retarded.

>>40077403
>yes, yes and yes
the alternative is changing ppls minds on them and trannies havent been very good at that

>>40077649
nah

>>40073284 (OP)
Most anons here agree with you.

>>40077667
well theyre getting taken away anyway. big whoop.

>>40077702
most anons here are unfortunately wrong about this
there is one place where trans girls competing is a real issue and that's high school athletics, because it's hard to enforce HRT requirements at that level and so you genuinely can get some kid who has been on a hondose for three months if at all absolutely destroying the girls' competition. lia thomas wasn't that, she didn't do anything wrong.

>>40077730
>well theyre getting taken away anyway
and idiots like you spreading this victim-blaming rhetoric are accelerating it for them! good job :)

>>40077288
>im just concerned about your wellbeing
>im just presenting fax and logic
>links the zucker study
My bro you are Jewish
You are Jewish and you linked the zucker study bruh you are a Jew and a retard l m a o not even a smart Jew just a dumb Jew

You’re right that sports hurts trans people politically at the very least but wrong about the reasons. It’s not because trannies have a serious mass scale advantage btw its because it just LOOKS bad and is spammed relentlessly by the media when it does.

You’d think a Jew would have some sympathy for this kind of thing, but nope, you’re a dumb Jew kek

>>40077639
they can do that idc

>>40073284 (OP)
i support trans in sports because they abuse women

>>40073304
You guys love to act like it's this problem with discrete individual hons, but they're just manifestations of what can fairly be called normie trans ideology. Self ID, sex denialism, and other extreme beliefs are the norm among trannies. The reality is that 4chan trannies aren't in control. Modern trans ideology was formed in places like Tumblr and Twitter, and as users of those sites have grown, they've gone on to work at journalistic outlets and universities, giving their all or nothing, no compromise beliefs legitimacy. But it's not just trans shit, progressive politics is entirely shaped by people who don't know how to win when they can't just dogpile or block people they dislike like they can online. The only thing stopping the hon problem is an ideological movement on the progressive left.

>>40073939
>People genuine care about sports?
Are you really this socially inept, or just trolling?

>>40077871
Even the majority of 4chan trannies nowadays only care about optics and not the retarded substance of gender ideology which is the root cause of all opticshons

>>40074218
LOL. Don't be stupid. There aren't enough chuds out there to put that much of a dent in a beer brand that took decades and billions to get to that position. That takes the normies. People who otherwise would never have given a fuck without the activists.

>>40077936
No I'm serious I think it's pretty gay. When I run into the inability to do something I like, I move on and do something different. Learn a new skill or talent. Could you imagine if I started pitching a fit over it instead? That's embarrassing.

>>40077871
trvke

>>40077589
I'm sure they'd love to get actual unicorns to advertise children's toys too, but that's not possible either.

>trans related thread
>"I'm not a tranny but-"
Stopped reading right there tbhon

>>40073284 (OP)
the sports issue wasnt an issue
it was a talking point
‘conceding’ the sports issue would have just lead to them finding something else to latch on to

>>40074382
Oh, it's far less stringent. There's no requirement that they take E at all.

>>40075436
>because its labeled as the mens league.
>if it were called the open league, trans women wouldnt have an issue participating, i think its just that simple.
Bullshit. If it's called the womens league, the MTFs will demand entrance.

>>40078013
Unfortunate truth as they've done in this thread
>bathrooms
>"transitioning kids" talk that we always run into even though 99% of trannies don't get access to it

>>40075454
Yes.

>>40075533
>Gay men didn't die on the hill of bareback bathhouses.
Eh, actually, a huge number of them did in the 90's.

>>40075602
>the fuck are you gonna say when its 8 year old gayboys going to the doctor for DMRT1 knockout injections?

That sex hormones in general should be disqualifiying as doping? If people need hormones as a life saving measure, that's all well and good, but the person who needs anabolic steroids to live also doesn't get to go to the olympics.

>>40078077
Anon estrogen doesn't improve you physically at all and makes you weaker. It's the opposite of doping.

>>40075533
they literally did and the 80s was basically a lost decade in terms of gay rights activism.

>>40078046
it will be bathrooms, then u18 transition

then it will be hrt is too easily available, making up some shit about adult trannies giving it out to kids

then social transition being unacceptable and all tranners must maintain their birth gender

you genuinely can not concede a single point to these people. they dont CARE about trannies in sports its literally just a stepping stone for them to erode your rights

>>40075980
So, what is your transhumanist pivot on how womens sports should work going forward?

Because sex becoming plastic and mutable isn't just christfaggotry that you'll have issues with. That's cross cultural worldwide.

I dont give one hoot over sports

>>40075533
>Gay men didn't die on the hill of bareback bathhouses.
Lmao that's exactly what they did. Some people wanted to shut that shit down (like we did for covid 19) when aids happened and they protested to keep open. Literally couldn't stop taking it up the ass for a month.

Then they died from aids

>>40078121
>So, what is your transhumanist pivot on how womens sports should work going forward?
individual organizations doing the things that work for them without any expectation that there should be a universal norm applying to all people and all sports
orgs that foster healthy competition will thrive, orgs that don't will wither and be replaced

>>40078121
>That's cross cultural worldwide.
nta but the Chinese will have zero moral, cultural, or religious objections to using gene engineering to make supermen and this is going to force everyone who competes with them to get on board or be left behind. Like this isn't just a matter of sex, this same kind of technology and transhumanism in general has far more practical applications that will enable it by consequence.

>>40077563
>>40077589
They should have used a lower class christian FTM, who is the "small dog" of the group of guys, but enjoys a bud lite with the guys. Non threatening. Comedic. Charming You could measure how negative the reaction to Dyan was to the normies by galvanic skin response alone.

>>40077639
Sportsball, and you get into the trans sports issue. Nascar? Reverse the question. What T's have the best reaction from that crowd?

>>40078120
well what else do we do bc it turns out as soon as cis ppl are actually exposed to trans ppl and non-religious arguments against trannies they turn against us.

>>40077871
...or the center of political thought moving to China. That's going to be hilarious. I'm not sure what China's approach to trannies is going to be long term, but imagine if they set their sports institutions that develop nothing but olympians to optimize for this, ditch 90 percent of their AFABS.

Or go full transhumanist. Maximum chemical and genetic manipulation starting pre concepxtion.

>>40077985
Even if you hate it, or don't understand it, I don't see how you could not notice ALL the fuckers who are willing to die or kill for sports shit?

>>40078090
Doesn't matter. It's the principle that only certain chemical modifications are allowed for certain competitions.

>>40078098
According to who? You had Ronald fucking Reagan and the AIDS crisis to deal with. What political asks were you expecting?

>>40078153
That's not going forward. That's status quo leaving it to someone else. Don't bitch out on me now after such strong positions. Lay out your criteria and reasoning.

>>40078123
>"I dont give one hoot over sports!"
The fox retorts.
He cares nothing for the reports of channel 4 cohorts. To the courts he snorts, legislation of all sorts on perceived torts and purports of hulking men in boxer shorts making competition "all-a-mort".

>>40078077
you think were all on ecdysterone or something?
also, DMRT1 is a gene that is critical for Y chromosome expression. without DMRT1, your testicles will turn themselves into ovaries.

>>40078121
yeah, my policy is fuck heterosexual reality.

were at the point where in gym circles the idea of being natty is starting to become a joke. that is not going to become less of a thing as anabolics technology improves. we already have non-androgenic anabolics, the ever looming possibility of good mysostatin inhibitors coming onto the market is basically the promise of doom for natural bodybuilding. how the fuck is T vs E2 going to remain the dominant distinction in physical capabilities?