Supreme Court OKs Tennessee ban on gender-affirming care for kids, a setback for transgender rights

it would be funny if they overturned the drag ban while doing this, but I guess the drag ban hasn't been challenged?
BASED tho, trans kids don't exist and groomers are getting BTFO

>>40096123 (OP)
The youngshit era is over. The new Hon years begin now.

the ban includes basically everything from "letting kids wear the clothes they want to wear to school" to "cutting your kid's dick off with a knife" so we're supposed to think this is totally reasonable because those are the exact same thing

>>40096123 (OP)
literally what do you expect for Tennessee?

>>40096153
It's a really nice place, it's so pretty, there's lots of nice rolling hills, but you kinda have to ignore the Jesus Freaks who I guess made a lot of money so they now have a lot of control.

Ha ha get FUCKED groomers! No GAC in my state! The kids are alright!

>>40096153
this is going to be used as precedent to push this trash in other states
it's fucking insane, literally based on made-up non-facts and non-statistics to begin with

>>40096210
good
>literally based on made-up non-facts and non-statistics to begin with
wow just like "gender dysphoria" lol

>>40096178
oh i know, ive been there a few times. but ill sound the alarm bells when a libbed out state like Massachusetts or Illinois tries to ban it. this is totally par for the course for a southern shithole

>>40096123 (OP)
Based. I didnt get to troon out as a kid, so no one else should too

>>40096218
Masachusetts still has their sodomy ban on the books.

>>40096245
tell me, when was the last time they charged someone with it?

>>40096275
I mean sometimes these laws are simply on the books to have a chilling effect - for example don't say gay laws - even if not enforced, serve to discourage students and teachers from coming out or talking about being gay.
Very strange to be progressive and not spend the day it takes to remove a sodomy ban from your law books.

>>40096238
why would you want them to suffer like we suffered?

>>40096281
If democrats have no carrot to dangle in front of voters then they have no votes. If you give the voters what they want, then what

>>40096245
Massachusetts also has a state law requiring insurers to cover all trans surgeries including FFS, which I am getting in October paid by BCBS-MA :) But I guess I should be mad about some ancient anti buttsex law that’s never stopped my boyfriend from plapping me in the booty hole

>>40096293
enjoy your uncanny skull
t. has seen post-ffs faces irl and it always looks like a skin halloween costume

>>40096137
Awee how's your marriage grid?

>>40096317
if it's between uncanny and man, i'll take uncanny

>>40096123 (OP)
Slop for the non-college opioid country hogs.

>>40096215
Wow just like "born this way"

>>40096293
do they cover out of state docs or you gotta go to a MA surgeon?

>>40096317
lol, no one can even tell that ive had ffs. it looks natural.

>>40096325
I mean sure, it doesn't read instantly male anymore, I'll give you that, but you just look like a freak and a zombie and it makes you stand out.

>>40096344
i already look like a male zombie freak. sounds like a win-win to me

>>40096317
also seen it IRL too and it looks fine
>>40096342
it covers out of state docs

>>40096123 (OP)
Based

>>40096388
damn i need to move to MA i want more FFS

>>40096210
>literally based on made-up non-facts and non-statistics to begin with
From the side that has yelled "settled science" for a decade, while also having to admit to this SCOTUS that they lied about suicide rates. Never mind the complete lack of long term studies and clinical trials.
You lost, take your time in the wilderness and reflect.

>>40096453
where's your evidence? bootlicking piece of shit

in b4 the cass "review" or the nih "review" lmao

>>40096453
Just because you can't or won't read doesn't mean the studies don't exist you fucking barbarian

so how long until obergefell gets overturned
i.e. how much time do i have to get out of here

>>40096453
>t. the side that made a raport in which it said healthy male estrogen is 60-130 pg

I am not forgotten

>>40096478
wasn't that in canada

You're not true trans if you're born in Tennessee

>>40096469
I have read the studies which is how I know there are effectively no decade plus longitudinal studies with a sub-50% attrition rate.
Nice dodge on the suicide stats BTW. Turns out you can't spend a decade blackmailing people that they can either have trans kid or a dead kid only for that to not even meet an evidence bar.

Again, you lost. It's up to you whether you'll shit and fart about it or you'll learn how to not lose in future.

>>40096153
i expect tennessee to pass shit like this.
i didn't expect SCOTUS to uphold it 6-3. i thought it would be 5-4 whichever way it went, with roberts as the deciding vote and gorsuch joining the libs.

>>40096123 (OP)
>3rd world country does 3rd world things
Move to California, Washington or New York or something if you are trans or have trans kids. Not sure why you would continue to live somewhere that backwards. Even if you are literally poor or on welfare you can flee the state like a refugee.

>>40096478
https://nationalpost.com/news/b-c-father-arrested-held-in-jail-for-repeatedly-violating-court-orders-over-childs-gender-transition-therapy
https://nationalpost.com/news/bc-father-wins-appeal-over-breaching-privacy-of-transgender-child
Ya that paper is obvious bullshit ,kourts said he kouldn't try and bully his kid by publikally releasing private info and he did so anyway ,so he got sentensed

>>40096563
>i didn't expect SCOTUS to uphold it 6-3
Dems intentionally let repubs stack the supreme court. Obama era dems literally decided to wait for trump to be elected to pick the new justice.

Not sure why you are suprized the nazi party's nazi judges uphold the nazi laws.

>>40096581
you shouldn't be asked to be silent about the state trying to have your daughter sterilized, the court is in the wrong here, not the father

>>40096599
>"Yeah you should be allowed to share all the private info of someone who doesn't want it shared to the entire country to bully them into a specific course of action"
Wild stuff

>>40096598
gorsuch and roberts both ruled that the civil rights act bans employment discrimination against trans people
on the surface that would seem to be a far more radical ruling than striking down an outright ban on all trans care for minors (even when the parents are supportive!) would have been.

>>40096639
if the only way to prevent your child from being state-sterilized is to speak out against the unjust government doing it, that's your right and duty as a parent

transgenderism is mass sterilization under false pretenses

>>40096289
It’s fair

>>40096693
ok aaron-eckhart-as-twoface

>>40096706
I’m not them but I think it’s fair

>>40096658
Wild that you go BEYOND kondoning parents using the national media to bully their kids ,you explisitly support it

>>40096718
it may be fair but it isn't right

>>40096731
transgenderism is explicitly bullying and harming gay people
nobody who gets "transitioned" does so without having homophobes around them enabling them wanting them to be sterilized for being gay
the mom is offended her daughter is a tomboy and wants to pretend she has a straight son instead of a lesbian, but you just won't discuss that side of the story

>>40096738
Doesn’t matter if it isn’t right it’s fair
Everything should be fair

>>40096746
is fairness a species of justice?

>>40096752
Fairness should be justice

>>40096123 (OP)
Remember, this is totally fine because you don't need dysphoria to be trans! Exactly what the larger "community" fought for.

>>40096742
my mom is offended i'm a tranny and not just a bifag
you're just mad no men want you

>>40096563
you thought Gorsuch would be the dissenting conservative when he is a textualism absolutist? really?

>>40096764
Also this. Since dysphoria isn't necessary for trans identification, these kids can just say they're trans and surely that will be sufficient.

>>40096742
>"nobody who gets "transitioned" does so without having homophobes around them enabling them wanting them to be sterilized for being gay"
This 'theory' kompletely ignores the existense of transbians ,and kan't explain their existense ,so is therefore bunk

>>40096742
>"the mom is offended her daughter is a tomboy and wants to pretend she has a straight son instead of a lesbian, but you just won't discuss that side of the story"
Many trans people transition in spite of their parents ,who are often inkredibly hostile to that ,and it often leads to people going no kontakt
This again disproves your 'theory' ,so it is klearly wrong
Not to mention in the West being trans is viewed far more negatively than being gay

>>40096760
if fairness is just, it must also be right. if it isn't right, it can't be just

>>40096653
i also want to add that there are two possible ways of thinking that explain ruling this way.
1. banning youngshits while also banning employment discrimination against trans people seems suspiciously well designed to maximize hatred against trans people by preventing them from stealthing and then forcing people who don't like them to hire them anyway.
2. allowing early transition with parental consent isn't a stable equilibrium. if it's really a medical issue, parents shouldn't be able to deny treatment. if it's not a medical issue, conservatives aren't going to recognize morphological freedom as a right anyone has, let alone minors. therefore, they have to ban it for everyone, so that no one can judge the parents who deny it to their suffering children as abusers.

I just want anime back.

>>40096784
>Not to mention in the West being trans is viewed far more negatively than being gay
clearly the exact opposite or you wouldn't all be trans....
your words say one thing, your behavior suggests a different perspective

>>40096764
Alito and Barrett both filed opinions that it's okay to discriminate based on transgender status because it's an amorphous umbrella group

I think we need to start distinguishing between full blown transsexualism as a rigid gatekept category and "trans*" if we want to have any rights

>>40096799
>"clearly the exact opposite or you wouldn't all be trans...."
More people are gay then trans ...?

>>40096796
This desu

>>40096818
>then
there is no then
if there is a then you are practicing conversion therapy

>>40096787
it is a medical issue insofar as it being treatable with pharmaceutical intervention and surgery. however, since there is no objective diagnostic criteria or physical way to verify the "condition" it isn't really as black and white. and its not something that is life threatening if it goes untreated, so it isn't like denying medical care for cancer or something.

>>40096825
*than
Dam minor spelling error

>>40096804
yeah but just like how AGPs learned what they needed to say to get treatment in the 80s/90s, people will just learn to say the right combination of words to get labeled as "true transsexual" and continue to get treatment. that's the biggest issue, there is no objective way to diagnose transsexualism.

>>40096843
as someone who was afforded HRT at 14 years old on account of a suicide attempt motivated by dysphoria I will say that it *is* life threatening for some, even it not all people.

>>40096876
internalized homophobia is the real problem, not your body

>>40096787
I understand their thought process. It's wrong but its thus:
>Trans Healthcare for minors is mad science pushed by the radical left even though it has honest criticism and real concerns.
>Trans discrimination IS just discrimination and it is consistent with anti discrimination laws to enforce it as such

Not mutually exclusive.

>>40096876
Hope you are doing better now. *hug*

>>40096876
reppers and John(50)s are living proof that it is not life threatening.

>>40096906
and I'm living proof that it can be life-threatening. Now what

If I say what needs to be said the FBI will break down my front door.

>>40096906
most diseases that kill people don't kill everyone who gets them
they kill people who are already vulnerable

>>40096953
>the 1% minority should totally start fomenting the bloody revolution
>that rhetoric totally won't flip around on us

>>40096787
The ruling also doesn't hinge at all on the fact that the ban only applies to minors. Bans for adults will be allowed under their reasoning

>>40096972
Also they can be severe or less severe. Like stage 1 versus stage 4 cancer. It's not just being vulnerable, you can genuinely just have more severe GD.

>>40096946
the fact that youre replying to me says its not. dead men tell no tales or whatever.

>>40096900
i think when somebody behaves in a way that makes it look like they're optimizing for an evil goal, we should be very suspicious when they present as an excuse that actually they're just stupid.
there's nothing biologically special about the age of 18 that would make trans care suddenly have radically different effects before it. if they're claiming not to know this, they're claiming to be stupid.

>>40097030
castration is not care, it's punishment

>>40096764
who said this? where? why does that mean that?

you aren't one of the good ones, and you never will be

>>40097014
The thing that currently saves adult transition is a low voter appetite even among conservatives to ban adult transition.
Of course that may change if trannies double and triple down on being annoying retards in public.

>>40097048
>victim blaming

>>40097026
wait now I'm confused you're aware that HRT treats gender dysphoria? and I received HRT at 14? which treated the dysphoria? or are you not reading my posts.

>>40097030
>there's nothing biologically special about the age of 18
Listen, I support HRT for minors. But you have to be dumb if you think hormones before and after a natural puberty don't function differently. There are absolutely complications that can come from it, such as improperly developed genitals which can make SRS more difficult later due to not enough tissue. These justices subscribe to the fantasy land view that 90% trans kids would be cis kids with no problems 30 years ago, and that they will desist if you don't medicate them. Which in their view is a much better outcome for their physical and mental health.

>>40097056
Trannies are perfect creatures

>>40096742
Why in the absolute fuck do you care about fertility so much while larping like you care about gay people? You know they don't breed anyway, right? This obsession with people's fertility isn't compatible with the idea that you're 'just opposing homophobia'. Your complaint doesn't line up with your claimed motivation.

>>40097064
>There are absolutely complications that can come from it, such as improperly developed genitals which can make SRS more difficult later due to not enough tissue.
literally what else? I can't think of a single other thing, and you're using that to implicitly advocate for trans youth going through the wrong puberty with life-long irreversible consequences

>>40097043
read the opinions of the judges you annoying ass wannabe instead of screeching 'pick-me!' at everyone that says something you don't like

>>40097030
>there's nothing biologically special about the age of 18
This is true for all age of consent issues, up to and including smoking, military membership, and sexual consent. Everyone understands that th3 abstraction is abstract but also valuable. Trying to frame up "age is just a number" as an argument would get you laughed out of traffic court, never mind SCOTUS.

>>40097069
don't engage with anyone calling it an "ism" lol

>>40097064
>But you have to be dumb if you think hormones before and after a natural puberty don't function differently.
puberty doesn't normally happen at 18. puberty blockers are uncontroversially used in cis kids with precocious puberty.
>There are absolutely complications that can come from it, such as improperly developed genitals which can make SRS more difficult later due to not enough tissue.
your source for this is notorious butcher marci bowers. competent surgeons do not have this problem.

>>40097048
Low voter appetite sure but it's definitely a priority among the actual conservative think tank and political class. Some of the people who helped draft the minor care bans even admitted that it was just their foot in the door to ban all transition, it's basically only a small slice of centrists/skeptical libs who thread the needle of "trans kids no, trans adults yes" because the right sees it as a social contagion caused by the very existence of trans adults.

>>40097063
yeah i read it. i just think the whole "we will an hero if we dont get our hormones" is the same shit as an emotionally abusive gf that threatens to sui if you break up with her

>>40096123 (OP)
chat is this real

>>40097083
i was responding to the claimed argument that trans care for minors is experimental mad science. i am totally fine applying a different standard to kids than to adults for access to care! we can restrict informed consent to legal adults and require an actual diagnosis for minors, that's fine and reasonable.

>>40097088
>uncontroversially used in cis kids with precocious puberty
Because the blockers are stopped at the normal onset of puberty and aren't continued for years after to "provide time to decide". Because having a period at 7 isn't medically or circumstantially same as delaying puberty until 15 or 16.
I don't understand how some of you have zero theory of mind for the other side of the debate.

>>40097112
>the other side of the debate
lol

>>40097079
>literally what else? I can't think of a single other thing, and you're using that to implicitly advocate for trans youth going through the wrong puberty with life-long irreversible consequences

in the same post I said:

>Listen, I support HRT for minors.

I think you might be autistic, anon (normal for 4chan). The issue here isn't whether or not the claims are correct, it's whether they are consistent to their internal beliefs. It's a thing with autistic people where they can't conceive of thoughts they don't understand. You know how HRT works and how safe it is, so you can't understand why someone who believes otherwise would act on those beliefs that are different from yours.

lol maybe another no kings protest will stop it hurry it up time is wasting

>>40097112
>Because the blockers are stopped at the normal onset of puberty and aren't continued for years after to "provide time to decide".
keeping kids on blockers for years well into their teens is retarded and not done for the sake of the kids but to ease their cis parents into it. they should in fact be started on hormones much quicker than that.

>>40097118
You can lol, or you can continue watching the other side of the debate accrue victory after victory because you were too high on your own supply you didn't understand how to actually message to normies

>>40097131
I agree, but it doesn't change that that was basically the medical law of the land for 15ish years. AMA and APA still recommend it as an option if I'm not mistaken

>>40097121
I read what you literally said, and I stand by my claim that you are implicitly arguing directly against your stated stance with your rhetorical bullshit
>The issue here isn't whether or not the claims are correct
how the fuck is it not?
>You know how HRT works and how safe it is, so you can't understand why someone who believes otherwise would act on those beliefs that are different from yours.
why do you say that? I'm not saying anything that would reasonably lead someone to conclude that

>>40097139
this isn't a two sides thing, and you're doing their work for them by pretending it is

>>40097088
>competent surgeons do not have this problem.
oh, you are one of those trannies that refuses to accept any kind of medical reality to transition and has to go way past what is realistic or true in your defense of it. small dicks absolutely make shallow depth vaginas.

>>40097131
>keeping kids on blockers for years well into their teens is retarded and not done for the sake of the kids but to ease their cis parents into it. they should in fact be started on hormones much quicker than that.

THIS THIS THIS. Blockers until 18 is literally the CONSERVATIVE option 10 years ago. And because there is no real leftist movement in western countries everywhere from sweden to america started doing blockers until 18 as a way of not giving trans kids healthcare. And NOW, the conservatives have psyop'd people into thinking blockers until 18 is the leftist pro trans position and no one would DARE to suggest HRT for minors.

>>40097153
NTA but how is it not a two sides thing?

>>40097111
it's not fine, at all, or in accordance with medical standards applied to non-trans people

>>40097168
how is it? one "side" is denying reality and rejecting evidence on self-inconsistent bases to push rhetorical narratives rooted in fiction, and the other "side" is advocating for human rights and scientific/medical standards not being applied unfairly and inconsistently to one group over another

>>40097139
None of us here have any hand in the LGBTQ messaging in the US ,most we kan do is talk to and konvinse the people we know and others around the plases we work and live

>>40097153
>this isn't a two sides thing
Every policy issue is a two sides thing because it's an adversarial system where the actual outcome will be determined to the engaged minorities persuading the disinterested masses.
If you insist on doubling down on this sort of
>my side is the right side of history
>ehat I want is so obviously correct it's not even worth understanding the complaints or caveats
Youll tell that disinterested middle that you're an annoying retarded holy warrior who wants them to shut up and do what you want. And then they'll flip you off while they vote to genocide you.

>>40097190
>ehat I want is so obviously correct it's not even worth understanding the complaints or caveats
can you stop projecting? I'm not saying that, or anything like that

It’s crazy how these people all lied about wanting to protect freedom and started going full throttle into evil authoritarianism as soon as they could

>>40097180
the merit of the opposing argument does not invalidate it as a position that can be held though.
>>40097186
why are you avoiding using the letter C?

>>40096152
Wow, imagine if it actually banned cutting boy dicks with knives. So antisemitic.

>>40097197
no, it's not, it's historically "right-wing politics" behavior
conservatism, traditionalism, enforcement of "natural" hierarchies, and all these other authoritarian expressions of faith are not legitimate ideologies on which to base real-world policy and never have been because they are definitionally predicated on denying reality, evidence, and critical thought in favor of whatever someone is compelled to, told to, or simply wants to believe

>>40097210
>the merit of the opposing argument does not invalidate it as a position that can be held though.
held reasonably, or defensibly? yes, it does, and it should not be entertained or given weight

>>40097197
They will never accept you
They hate you because you simply have a preference for them

>>40097153
>I read what you literally said, and I stand by my claim that you are implicitly arguing directly against your stated stance with your rhetorical bullshit
>>The issue here isn't whether or not the claims are correct
>how the fuck is it not?
>>You know how HRT works and how safe it is, so you can't understand why someone who believes otherwise would act on those beliefs that are different from yours.
>why do you say that? I'm not saying anything that would reasonably lead someone to conclude that

go up in the reply chain nona.

the original comment was talking about cognitive dissonance of banning trans kid healthcare but still upholding anti trans discrimination laws. we weren't discussing what is correct, but whether the Supreme Courts conservative views are internally consistent. They think trans healthcare for kids is unhealthy and bad, and they uphold the law that discrimination is bad. The views aren't mutually exclusive.

Them being wrong about trans healthcare has nothing to do with logic, the logic isn't the problem. It's the facts that are wrong. Also whether a state has the right to ban healthcare is a question of right to do so, not if it is good for the health of the patients. It's relevant, but not the core of the case.

The state could just as easily ban vaccines or using casts or x-rays if it wanted too and it would go through the same legal challenges.

If the question is, is the Supreme Court stacked with evil conservatives who are going to be biased against trans people? Absolutely. But in the case of the trans discrimination case the law was clear enough that they made that ruling even with their bias.

>>40097186
>None of us here have any hand in the LGBTQ messaging in the US
If you think orgs like GLAAD are less reachable than, say, congress, you're wrong.
But that completely missed the point, which is that your individual actions and choices contribute to a broad vibe
>>40097195
>can you stop projecting? I'm not saying that, or anything like that
That's precisely what you say when you say
>this isnt a two sides issue
Because the implication is there's only one side.

>>40097223
>the logic isn't the problem. It's the facts that are wrong
but it's both, the logic IS self-inconsistent

>>40097229
>Because the implication is there's only one side.
that's right
there is no legitimate "side" against trans healthcare, nothing defensible or that should be legally upheld, just literal fiction and people who want it to be true

>>40097244
>there is no legitimate "side" against trans healthcare, nothing defensible or that should be legally upheld, just literal fiction and people who want it to be true
Corporate wants you to find the difference etc
>my side is the right side of history
>what I want is so obviously correct it's not even worth understanding the complaints or caveats
Enjoy normies cheering your marginalization and demise.

>>40097218
i think there are people who seriously, truly, and honestly believe that trans healthcare is doing harm to children. they hold the position in earnest, meaning, there are two sides. whether or not you agree with their position is inconsequential to the position being held.
>>40097222
we do not hate chasers on this site. maybe on reddit

>>40097197
Dam its almost like thats just what konservatives are

>>40097210
>"the merit of the opposing argument does not invalidate it as a position that can be held though"
Uhhh ...yes it does
If the opposing argument is the one with merit ,like the idea that the Earth is a sphere ,then that does invalidate the flat Earthers bekause the positions are mutually exklusive and therefore the flat Earthers just have a wrong position

>>40097229
>"But that completely missed the point, which is that your individual actions and choices contribute to a broad vibe"
A single Dem konsultant has more power in pro LGBTQ messaging in the US than 100000 trannies

>>40097256
what I do have trouble understanding is the kind of black and white thinking you're exhibiting here (unless, of course, you simply made up your mind beforehand and are working backwards to defend that - curious!)

>>40097266
>they hold the position in earnest, meaning, there are two sides
we're getting into needless semantics but you are literally trying to "both sides" this and it's not working lol

>>40097266
Okay

>>40097266
>we do not hate chasers on this site
verifiably false

>>40097244
its not.
>trans healthcare is bad and states have the right to ban things so we ruled that banning it was constitutional
>trans discrimination is clearly discrimination under the law as its written, and they affirmed that interpretation of the law

From their perspective, banning trans healthcare is a pro trans stance in the stance 90% of trans kids aren't really trans so it's a better health outcome for them. And trans kids are different than trans adults who hit the magical number that says you are an adult and no if you ruin your body that's your right it's on you under informed consent.

>>40097291
See

>>40097308
this position is based entirely on misinformation and rhetoric, and is not a legitimate "side" or something that should be given any merit, only countered with direct evidence

>>40097277
>A single Dem konsultant has more power in pro LGBTQ messaging in the US than 100000 trannies
In 2024, dem consultants proved that they're so ineffectual that given a billion dollars and infinity celebrities, they lost to a swarming 80iq twitter mob in 3 months. Ground level works.
I don't think you need 10k trans people in some coordinated fashion. I think you make individual and local changes and work to see them spread. Retards like that other anon deserve to be challenged and held to their stupidity because their stupidity is ineffectual.

>>40097321
>this position is based entirely on misinformation and rhetoric, and is not a legitimate "side" or something that should be given any merit, only countered with direct evidence

and here is the autism lol. like this is literally textbook autism. cannot fathom believing something different from you. like this is literally TEXTBOOK fucking autism, not meme calling dumb people on the internet autistic. This is actual, non ironic autism.

there was maybe a chance at one point in the last ten years for this to have been avoided and maybe /tttt/ could have been nationally and even universally accepted. but that chance is gone, for some reason.

>>40097197
Never trust a Christian. His one and only goal is to bring you in line with his ancient desert book, everything he does or anything he says otherwise is part of a deception.

>>40097287
>what I do have trouble understanding is the kind of black and white thinking you're exhibiting here
What black and white thinking? The conclusion that my-siding and telling normies their concerns are fake will cause them to turn on you, with abundant evidence including the OP?
The only black and white thinking I see is this
>there is no legitimate "side" against trans healthcare, nothing defensible or that should be legally upheld, just literal fiction and people who want it to be true

>>40097336
>cannot fathom believing something different from you
what? who said that? I didn't say people don't or can't believe these objectively false things, so why are (You) so autistically fixated on projecting and repeating that false narrative?

>>40097342
this applies to ALL rightoidism, religion, and other forms of faith btw

>>40097344
normies aren't the ones pushing this, dumbshit, stop being so disingenuous

>>40097354
Except Judaism and Islam and every non western religion

>>40097373
no? they're all predicated on the same dangerous rejection of critical thought and abandonment of reality in favor of belief (often even bolstered by evidence directly contrary to those beliefs as a matter of "faith")

>>40097354
>normies aren't the ones pushing this
Even if we ignore the baked in elitism (that normies absolutely understand and pick up on btw)...
>hah normies, you're just too stupid to have agency to decide something is important enough for yourself, you only parrot what evil conservative think tanks tell you
... it's still irrelevant because you have to actually engage those normals in a way they find convincing and genuine. Approaching them from a "my side is right, all your concerns are agitprop and fake" position turns them off, demonstrably.
I think other anon is right, your autism seems off the charts.

>>40097387
Well good luck because religion will be eternal

>>40096152
So you agree that transgender surgeries for non-adults is bad?

>>40097397
you're suggesting I'm arguing things I've never come close to even suggesting
surreal

>>40097402
nah, superstition and shamanism are an inherent aspect of humanity but I believe we can move past religion and faith

>>40097344
i think the people ITT are also failing to realize that normies basically outnumber us 100 to 1, so their viewpoint holds far more weight than ours by sheer volume.

>>40097403
transgender surgeries are wrong and harmful at any age for anyone

>>40097413
Did you just figure out now what democracy entails?

>>40097406
But that is religion

>>40097427
what is? where's the "but" applying?

>>40097413
I never suggested otherwise, what is wrong with you?

>>40097323
Valid ,but the fakt remains that we don't kontrol Democratic messaging or anything like that

>>40097387
Based and I 100% agree

>>40097402
The kontinual advansement of reason in the West and akkross the world that is pushed to okkur by ,and helps perpetuate the development of sosiety ,has led to religion kontinually dekreasing globally
Eventually reason will win out ,and when it does religion and faith more broadly will not be able to make a meaningful return

>>40097406
>you're suggesting I'm arguing things I've never come close to even suggesting
It's a direct line conclusion from what you're arguing.
Either normies don't echo these concerns you think are false, in which case you don't have a problem because normies are on your side (measurably not the case)
OR normies hold these concerns and issues of their own volition and agency (which you dispute as "normies aren't the ones pushing this")
OR normies through lack of agency have ingested Right Wing Talking Points that they echo like sheep (which sounds shitty so you recoil from it above).

>>40097413
>Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich — that is the democracy of capitalist society.
Democracy has always been a sham. unironically totalitarian governments are better than democracies of any kind.

>totalitarian government on your side
no fear of losing your rights until it is overthrown or the leadership loses power in a few generations
>totalitarian government not on your side
you are oppressed
>democratic government on your side
you are temporarily unoppressed until fickle normies decide to oppress you
>democratic government not on your side
you are oppressed

you only have true freedom in one of these cases

>>40097457
>OR normies through lack of agency have ingested Right Wing Talking Points that they echo like sheep
but this is completely true and it doesn't contradict anything else I've said
why are you trying this hard to put words into my mouth that don't make any sense in any context?

>>40097448
Did your c key broke

>>40097467
not only this, but democracy is doomed to be a rule of the mediocre. Humanity will always be filled with 50% retarded morons with less intelligence than the societal average

A totalitarian government like china can appoint intelligent people to positions of power and they don't have to worry about being ousted because they pissed off the lesser 50% of society

>>40097477
It confirms your elitist opinion of normals, namely that they can't think for themselves on this issue (because RWTP) and that you paternalistically know better than them (because right side of history one-sideism). Which again, they can sense and have sensed and worsens your position with normies.

It also contradicts your rejection of this description, because when pressed it's exactly what you believe. At best, you just want it wrapped in nicer words so you can feel better about believing it.

>>40097457
>"OR normies through lack of agency have ingested Right Wing Talking Points that they echo like sheep (which sounds shitty so you recoil from it above)."
If you kan konvinse someone of something whic is easily verifiably false just by repeating it to them enough times in a kool enough way/with enough hype around it ,it would seem that they are alike stupid sheep ,inkapable of thinking or researcing for themselves

>>40097507
weird, you are still projecting this bizarre authoritarian framing! I don't think that way, or speak that way... are you trying to maybe chastise me for acting superior or elitist, when I'm not, because you're insecure or covet that kind of paternalism?

>>40097507
Normals can't think for themselves. The average person cannot read above a 5th grade level in america. You cannot reason with people who do not know how to reason in the first place.

You either concede yourself to their idiotic ideals or ignore them and push them back when you have power in society.
we don't let passengers vote on how to fly a plane, we appoint someone who knows how to do it and make everyone else stfu

>>40097524
>we need totalitarianism then everyone will be forced to accept that a man in a dress is a woman

>>40097354
I don't consider 'rightoidism' to be a thing, sorry. We can talk about Conservatism, because it's a discrete ideology with a founder and a movement based on it, but as such it doesn't actually cover universally all forms of traditionalism or opposition to big government or any of the other things that the 'conservative' party in the US professes it aligns to. It's similar to Socialism in this way, that people identify with it while not understanding what it is, and that people assign all ideologies traditionally associated with it, to it by default without understanding the broader context. For example, it's entirely possible for someone to be pro-trans but an advocate for small government and low regulations, or to support some example of traditional culture (like the extended family) while not being anti-trans.

>>40097543
nah, conservative and right-wing "politics" are not legitimate positions and are predicated on faith

>>40097518
>>40097524
If that's really what you believe is happening, then that's fine, but it basically compels a fatalist perspective on trans rights in a democracy, because the allegedly-unthinking normies rule the roost and tranners are unwilling or unable to drop condescension and speak to them at their level. Instead we see masturbstory technocrat fantasy (>>40097524) where the 1% is supposed to overpower the 99%.

>>40097542
It's more like accepting that biological expression can be changed with medicine, which is a truth that TERFs want to silence because then their false sense of superiority crumbles. Man is above nature, but only when he acknowledges it and shapes it in his image.

The reason why people oppose transgenderism is because the elites are terrified of transhumanism in general catching on in the public sphere. It's supposed to be for god's chosen only. (if you think I'm schizo, look at what peter thiel is saying. he is behind all the right-ward push in society with his immense paypal money)

>>40097373
I know you've been trained to think Judaism is basically just an Atheistic ethno-religion, but Conservative, Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox, and Hasidic, among other denominations, of Judaism exist that all on some level want to live according to the laws of the Torah (and that includes hating gays and trans.)

>>40097521
>normies who say they care about an issue I don't like don't really believe it and are so stupid they've been psyopped by evil people and their concerns are fake anyway
>this isnt me being an elitist btw
The jokes just write themselves.

>>40097580
you might be schizophrenic

>>40097550
Funny thing to say for someone who didn't intellectually engage with my point.

>>40097568
trannies always use the word "medicine" as if it magically makes them right about everything
its castration
you are castrating people to make them less aggressive

>>40097585
your "point?" that my sweeping judgement of right-wing policy and ideology as not operating on the basis of reason and evidence because, uh, people misunderstand socialism and some right-wingers hold different positions? you're trying too hard

>>40097584
>you might be schizophrenic
>schizophrenia is when you point out my own beliefs that I've revealed throughout the thread
Anyway, for real, I hope you learn to actually treat the other side as a real side, even if you don't believe it, when talking to ordinary people, because otherwise they're going to continue to get so annoyed with your attitude they'll just throw up their hands and care about you even less.

>>40097597
>that my sweeping judgement of right-wing policy and ideology as not operating on the basis of reason and evidence
that this judgement is wrong*

>>40096137
trans kids exist and you should have been a sexual slave your whole puberty for disagreeing that minors should transition.

even as a sex doll you would be less miserable than most trans teens

>>40097542
Trans Hitler will create a glorious Reich that will endure for 70 years!

>>40097601
who do you think I am or who do you think I'm engaging with? what do think this is? no, their "side" is not a real side, sorry not sorry and

>>40097603
trans kids don't exist, you want an excuse to sterilize the gender non conforming

>>40097542
Perfekt example of a brainless normies
>Sees something their emotions don't like
>Kan't respond to it reasonably ,brain shuts down trying to think of an aktual retort
>Defaults to a mid slogan to do the thinking for them

>>40097562
It is quite klear by looking at history that most people unthinkingly aksept what they are used to and what has been put infront of them
?How else kould we explain the fakt that ineffektive and immoral institutions had existed so long with suc a great amount of popular support before their abolishment
It is also true that sosiety progresses ,and that kritikal thought ,and reason and its produkts have bekome more and more promoted and aksepted ,and opposition to it more and more punished
Reason is its own forse ,and will ,over enough time ,forse sosiety in a direktion away from thought guided by base emotion towards a better one

>>40097594
You can freeze eggs or sperms if you want to have children. Also, people's bodies are their own property so if they want to castrate themselves, they should be allowed.

If you're going to yap on about how its your duty to have children etc, then women shouldn't be allowed abortions and people with substandard intelligence or genetic disorders shouldn't be allowed to have children.

>>40097622
>>40097518
this is not inevitable or necessary, and changing the ways of thinking under which people are raised and learn to interact with the world CAN reduce this susceptibility to manipulation and faith by instilling a sense of skepticism and curiosity to learn through evidence and reason

it's not easy and we've lost a lot of progress, globally, arguably over the past decade alone but it's possible
I just don't know about the people who embrace this cognitive dissonance and reject reality and are surrounded by a culture that supports it by ostracizing anyone who doesn't step in line, because it's very effective at maintaining authoritarian structures, and that's a real problem we have to deal with somehow

>>40097631
denial of autonomy is always their foundation

No child should be altering anything to their bodies. Periodt.

>>40097597
That being 'rightward' of you does not automatically make someone a Conservative, because Conservatism is a discreet ideology with a founder and precepts, even if most people today aren't aware of it. I used the illustrative example of how people accuse anyone supporting welfare (that is, anyone leftward of them) of being a Socialist, when that is not the case, as Socialism is a discreet ideology with a founder and precepts and not a synonym for "is left of me."

>>40097668
based based based. no piercings ((Even ears)), no hair dye either!

>>40097594
>>40097620
>>40097069

>>40096764
If you don't need dysphoria to be trans then you can be given hormones citing an endoctrine imbalance.
Since the supreme court makes a ridiciolous difference between gender dysphoria and trans people you should be able to be prescribed hormones based on your hormonal imbalance instead of dysphoria.
So I guess it's true, you don't need dysphoria after all

>>40097640
>"this is not inevitable or necessary"
I didn't say it was
I said the opposite ,aktually ,that over time the few that aren't sheep in this manner kan eventually forse sosiety into the direktion of reason
However the traits needed to have someone be unthinking in this manner would still exist in most people ,outside of some very drastik canges to sosiety (whic is possible)
It mostly komes down to a personal weakness of will ,whic makes people rejekt the painful (or even inkonvenient) truth in favor of the position that either is ,or leads to the most emotional gratifikation for them (inkluding via allowing them passive inaktion)
At the end of the day ,this is VERY prevalent ,but is something whic we kan fight ,both by making the rejektion of reason an untennable position in sosiety ,and by improving those that sosiety produses and whic then go on to make it up and kontrol it

>>40097706
>I didn't say it was
well sure, and I didn't say or suggest you did; I was simply remarking on the preventable and regrettable nature of us even having gotten to this current state of an almost universal rollback away from reason even after so much relative progress

>>40097728
It is sad ,but ultimately you kan defeat bigotry and the konditions allowing it to exist (whic are the other bigots in the sosiety ,generally) onse and for all ,but reason is impossible to fully defeat ,even if it kan be suppressed for long periods of time
And thankfully ,regimes whic turn away from reason tend not to last long ,kuz it turns out when you oppose reason ,you tend to make unreasonable desisions

>>40097674
but I didn't say everyone right of me is a conservative
why do you argue against points you imagine, instead of what is said?

>>40097069
gays can have families through surrogacy

>>40096123 (OP)
We hate youngshits here

>>40097821
How many choose to do that, and why can't you obsess over freezing sperm instead if this is your crutch?

>>40096123 (OP)
What about a gender-affirming care ban for adults as well?

>>40097218
A lot of these same people larped as libertarian though, the fact that so many of them were just lying is what’s crazy
>>40097222
Mine doesn’t seem to hate me too much

>>40096658
We need less people anyways lol

>>40097895
more would choose to do that if they weren't being preemptively sterilized

>>40097968
>A lot of these same people larped as libertarian though, the fact that so many of them were just lying is what’s crazy
that's because "libertarians" are actually just the most cowardly kind of authoritarians and won't commit to it until they see someone else with something they want or doing something they don't like or think is unfair to them personally, then they immediately reveal themselves as full fascist

>>40097996
I actually do care about freedom though I wasn’t lying

>>40096123 (OP)
*fetish affirming care, and good. Stop sexualizing kids.

>>40098718
lmao

judging from this thread there are still many people who have learned absolutely nothing from this, so get used to more

>>40098951
what do you think anyone is supposed to have learned? what should trannies do or have done differently, just not care about their rights? we're not rolling over for you

>>40096123 (OP)
It's bull shit. Will be fixed soon. The great trans migration will make for some interesting communities in left states.

>>40099089
You can learn which arguments did not work, and consider reforming how you present them, or if you present them at all

>>40097197
these people are literal, unironic demons

>>40099205
what arguments did I present? why do you think every trans person is part of some monolithic hivemind? this is so bizarrely disingenuous that I actually don't understand why people like (You) keep pushing it unless explicitly to victim blame and demoralize

>>40096123 (OP)
BASED
Transsexuality is F64.00, with the diagnostic criteria of the *patient above the age of adulthood*
The closest paediatric condition is F64.20, Gender dysphoria in children and adolecsents, which *subsides when left alone* 80% of the cases. The remaining 20% become troons.
So best standard of care is
> Let children be
> 30-60-90 rule of screen time (30 minutes/day until grade 4, 60 mins/day until grade 8, 90 mins/day until age 18, total screentime and no personal screens).
> Wait until adulthood (age 21) for any treatments.
> Children can't decide their gender
But... but.... 41%
> Valium exists.
> A huge slap across the face exists.

>>40099215
>immediate kneejerk insane liberal frothing
Already failing

>>40099207

>>40099229
>Valium exists
i take valium
im still dysphoric

also
>wait until adulthood (age 21)
lmao, im gonna help some tranny kid diy just to spite you

>>40096123 (OP)
unfortunately the assertion that trans people have a right to a quality of life approaching that of cis people is still extremely radical

>>40099240
?
you're accusing me of something without defining what it even is

Adult bans will be next. I wonder how fast we will go from "protect the kids" to "ban all trans health care" to "put all trans people on watchlists" to "disappear all the trans people".

If you haven't already been, now is the time to stockpile an plan an exit out of this country.

>>40099410
if your quality of life can only be obtained through surgical and medical self harm, and imposing coerced speech, then no, you don't deserve that

>>40099489
"nooo we would never do that to you we just need to save you from your dumb selves <3333" the paternalistic types will never be honest about the results they want

>>40099535
>only be obtained through surgical and medical self harm
why doesn't this apply to other medical issues causing adverse effects?
>imposing coerced speech
i don't support imposing speech, ive always just calmly explained why we ask for specific language and reserve the right to not associate with people who don't listen. any pushback on the basis of "imposed speech" is literally collective punishment on normal transsexuals for the actions of the like 1% of us that work for extreme woke think tanks
>then no you don't deserve that
humanity isn't conditional, and even if it is you are punishing innocent trans people who agree with you along with those who actually did the things you are upset about

>>40099489
adults are already being targeted in many states
at the federal level, 18 year old legal adults have already been targeted

>stockpile an plan an exit out of this country
I'm hunkering down in my comfy little blue state with my guns and my vials, real simple for me because I'm lucky, but that does nothing for the children and adults in other parts of the country

>>40099598
>why doesn't this apply to other medical issues causing adverse effects?
yes, let's ban elective plastic surgery and circumcision too

>>40099678
You are living in fantasy worlds if you think you are safe in a blue state. We are going to see AI being used so the secret police can track down and disappear adult trannies after nationwide GAC bans. This is just them signaling to the public the death knell.

>>40099707
for them to come after me for being trans where I am would require the rest of society to have collapsed to a point where I have much more immediately urgent concerns

>>40099695
should we ban amputations in kids with bone cancer? they're not equipped to comprehend the consequences of losing a limb. with plastic surgery, what about in cases like extreme deviated septums that interfere with breathing? should we ban doing that kind of surgery on teenagers, even in cases where it would vastly increase their quality of life? for the record, i don't support doing trans surgery on minors, and neither does anyone else really. but i support hrt access for dysphoric teens and think it's essential medical care.

>>40099729
>should we ban amputations in kids with bone cancer?
NTA, untreated bone cancer is objectively terminal. You will die of cancer without treatment, within a couple of moths or years.

Meanwhile, the data on gender affirming care preventing youth suicides is so completely inconclusive after all this time, the ACLU lawyer arguing against the TN ban in the OP had to admit in the hearings that childhood GAC has zero measured improvements to suicide rates. All while the AMA and doctors have been saying "trans daughter or dead son" etc.

They can wait until 18. Maybe even 16 once the AMA and the APA and WPATH stop continually trying to institutionally gaslight about how super settled the science is.

>>40099845
>literally just lying
bet you're a big fan of the NIH "review" on gender affirming care lmao

people will think im crazy, but i actually think things will get better now, not that the supreme court shit is awful. But trump starting a war with iran is fracturing his base.
wokeness is dead and we have returned to the 2000s when republicans are neocon war mongers. but can liberals, the left, and democrats take this opportunity to once again be the cool kid in class?

the left maybe, but democrats always fail...if they dont come out as viruntly anti war they will have failed.

democrats have a chance here, its only been 6 months in the trumpen reich and he already imploded his support base

>>40099729
I support full bans on hrt globally from birth to death. Round up those offering gender affirming care, and behead them publicly to send a message to others.

>>40099845
Great idea anon, lets ban anorexia treatments too, depression meds as well. Lets ban therapy too, its basically useless and makes no difference. Just lobotomize all kids that act badly

>>40099229
>car exists
>cliff exists
Congratulations, now you got a puddle that vaguely smells of melted fried brain matter.
Vallium is garbage and only makes people more sucidal

>>40099864
>well, you see
>the science is only settled when I like its conclusions, regardless of its methodologies or substance
>the science is only politicized when I don't like its conclusions, regardless of its methodologies or substance
You're in for a rough decade.

>>40099878
>lets ban anorexia treatments too
Anorexia has longitudinal studies with low attrition rates describing measured tangible suicidal harms. Anorexia hasn't had to embarrassingly publicly rebut its core moral claim in front of the highest court in the land.
>therapy too
Therapy is cheap and noninvasive, so that's a false equivalence.
>depression meds too
Unironically yes for people under 18.

>>40099878
>lets ban anorexia treatments
is the current treatment to encourage them to starve themselves and make it illegal for parents to say they think there's anything wrong?

>>40099941
>measurable sucidal harms
Only if you neglect them. Just look if your kids eating KEK
>embrassingly public
You know its only because its widely acknowledged that an afab doesnt go past the brain age of 5 and is so retarded that it just makes up random ""illnesses"" but its 50% of population so we go with it?
>cheap
kek
>noninvasive
Oh yes goy doctor brainwash me more yes yes my goy mind says yes yes yes

>>40099931
>if you dont like le stoodies citing tabloids and youtube shorts youre anti science and le hypocrite
Anon...
>>40099970
Its playing with their delusions and babytalking them instead of forcing them to eat. Multiple times more deadly, yet widely accepted.

>>40100000
FUCK
You dumb fucking tranny

>>40100000
>>if you dont like le stoodies citing tabloids and youtube shorts youre anti science and le hypocrite
>Anon...
You're right, I should instead cosign onto crowd that has conducted zero clinical trials, has no cohort greater than about 5 years, and who bury their own studies when their conclusions don't fit the desired outcome (looking at you, Johanna Olson-Kennedy)

>>40099207
>>40099324
I'm a /pol/ tourist who came here to collect tears and even I think that keeping a braindead body "alive" to be used as an incubator is fucked up. Incredibly fucked up.

>>40100036
>bury
It wasnt buried, youre just a goy. I am fairly sure the cass and nih private files are doing just fine.... oh wait.
>it wasnt literally perfect thats why we should respect barely passing middle school essay level slop as better because... yes tranny

>>40100081
>It wasnt buried
It certainly wasn't published. Which is, as you might know, the intended outcome of research.
>it wasn't literally perfect
Anon. All the medical institutions normalized "trans kid or dead kid" as the first line to parents when zero compelling evidence exists TODAY that child transition improves suicides at all. That's not "not perfect," that's flawed to the point of nonstarter.

>>40096123 (OP)

A good start.

>>40100121
In my case, or any doc i've met, it was more "your kid's a tranny, it's currently sucidal, it's most likely that it'll continue being sucidal or worsen with sucidality, and you can't be surprised if a sucidal kid kills themselves" the "tranny kid dead kid" is some dumbed down version of this made by a random lib in literally where california and picked popularity because its easy to put on instagram posts for other libs.
Also
Do you know why the debate is based on sucides itself? A sucide, especially a kid one, is hard to confirm in many cases, and even if its practically 100% that it was a sucide the cause of death still might be listed as an accident. Now throw in odds of having a gd diagnosis as well as having parents that both would get you diagnosis at a young age but no meds so you're not getting treatment for a prolonged amount of time. You see my point? It's natural that it's going to be a rare nearly imperceptible governmentally occurence.

>>40100223
If you are too cowardly to be openly gay you should just kill yourself.

>>40100223
>It's natural that it's going to be a rare nearly imperceptible governmentally occurence.
This would be a compelling argument except for the fact that other DSM conditions that result in suicide have a solid research base articulating suicide rate improvement from treatment. So obviously the complications you mention don't prevent real analysis or real conclusive evidence.
>"your kid's a tranny, it's currently sucidal, it's most likely that it'll continue being sucidal or worsen with sucidality, and you can't be surprised if a sucidal kid kills themselves"
You may like this better because it's softer hedged language, but the implication is the same and the data is just as absent. And suicide rates aren't even the limit of the gaps, it's just the most obvious one with the highest profile reversal.

You could literally create the perfect study where you give gender dysphoric kids hormones or nothing and then force them to stick with whatever you chose and then track how many commit suicide and it could prove that kids on hormones do better and they wouldn't care. These people just want us dead. They literally jump for joy whenever news that makes our lives worse comes out. They literally sell tshirts mocking the death of a trans woman who killed herself

>>40097066

>>40096123 (OP)
how is allying with international marxism and making white men your enemies working out, transbians?

>>40100285
People literally sell tshirts mocking the death of trans people. Is it that hard to believe some trannies might kill themselves

>>40100237
Society hates trans people way more than it hates gay people

>>40100285
>your argument invalid because i ignored two thirds of the argument
Are you baiting or genuinely retarded? I can't tell.
Is the saying "sucidal people kill themselves more often" unsupported scientifically? Do you just ignore what i'm saying. Are you a chatgpt trained to pretend to be sophisticated? Are you ESL? I want any answer

>>40100285
>solid research base
>in psychology
Havent keked that hard since last year anon

>>40100312
>People literally sell tshirts mocking the death of trans people. Is it that hard to believe some trannies might kill themselves
Whether you did it intetionally or not, this is an emotionally manipulative reframing. Note how the claim is moved from something specific
>GAC for children has no measured improvement on suicide rates
to something diffuse and significantly broadened
>Is it that hard to believe some trannies might kill themselves (generally, outside the context of GAC)
with a preamble that's supposed to twist at your heart strings:
>People literally sell tshirts mocking the death of trans people

If you want to focus on the original claim on GAC and suicide rates, the claim that actually matters regarding whether childhood GAC has overwhelming benefits to overcome parental or legislative objections, you can present findings that support your claim. The lawyers representing you have admitted no such research exists.

>>40100326
>sucidal people kill themselves more often
You can also take this lesson (>>40100352) on reframing, right before you focus back on the actual claim that matters:
>childchood GAC does not improve suicide rates

>>40100352
Anon, do you know with how many things we can make a claim like this?. Yelling or hitting your kid has no outcome on muh sucide rates, so its correct and we should do it because otherwise they might.. le gasp... be entitled like a normal human.

>>40100352
Emotionally manipulative? Do you just not care about dead kids? Does having to think about the fact that you support policies that encourage people kill themselves harden your heart? Explain to me why I shouldn't be concerned about a culture that loudly announces at every opportunity that it gleefully celebrates the death of people like me?
There's nothing I could do to make you not hate and despise people like me. I could be the best person in the world and you would still support my death

>>40100378
>doesnt improve sucide rates
Because kid sucide is uncommon in practically every normal, socially stable group anon. It goes from 0(??) To 0(?)

>>40100347
>Havent keked that hard since last year anon
>what are longitudinal studies greater than 10 years with attrition rates lower than 75%
But hey, if that bar is so low, why has GAC failed to meet it since 2010?

>>40100421
If true, then I guess we don't need GAC, considering its sole effective pitch, the one that medical professionals frontloaded to parents and therapists, was "kids will kill themselves if we don't do this at well-understood rates"

>>40096197
No GAC
No GOCK

>>40100378
So why should we outright ban the care rather than just order a study be conducted on the suicidality of gender dysphoric teenagers on hrt vs not? Why do you immediately jump to mutilating our bodies? Why do people like you shot off the rooftops how much you like it when trans people kill themselves? When a trans kid kills herself why do people sell tshirts mocking her?

>>40100352
>emotional manipulation is when i feel bad and i dont want to feel bad
>>40100422
Why havent any anti tranny reviews meet any reviewer requirements and intentionally hide records about how they were made? Can give you the basically the same question.

>>40100411
>Do you just not care about dead kids?
>Emotionally manipulative>
Lol.
I care about outcomes and effective treatments and not lying about your research body to facilitate irrational beliefs, no matter how badly you feel about the population involved. Because if your research base turns out to be vaporware, your feelings may cause net harm relative to the actual issue.
>will someone think of the kids (and turn off your brain because of it)
rightly used to be a dumb republican talking point that liliths like yourself have coopted

>>40100433
I guess if there's not a mountain of dead underage bodies in Tennessee in the next five years then youre right and it's going to be pretty hard to argue that gac is necessary at all huh

>>40100433
Well, let's start hitting children too. It's a good disciplinary method. Lobotomy is also good, it also prevents sucide in any capacity. It's perfect. Any full life observation of a lobotomite will show they cannot kill themselves, which means it's perfect psychological treatment.

>>40100422
It's impossible to conduct such a study because if someone is gender dysphoric forcing them to not be on hrt for ten years to test whether they kill themselves or not goes against medical principles of not doing harm. Even if you did conduct it the parents of the kid would drop out when their suicidal kid doesn't get the treatment which would make them not suicidal.
You people don't care about any of this though. You just want to see us suffer. You take glee in it. You sell fucking tshirts about it.

gentle reminder that pretty view girl
>started transition as a minor
>had wealthy, supportive parents
>lived in one of the bluest areas of the world
>had a gf
and still killed herself

i looked up some studies and it seemed like the main concern was that there wasn't much control for comorbidities but tbdesu i think those comorbidities shouldn't be controlled for. like, i never had depression 'till my gender dysphoria symptoms started flaring up, and none of my family has depression, so i'm pretty sure it was caused by the gender dysphoria. so controlling for it seems kinda dumb

>>40100496
Also
>bullied
>blockercel
>(unproven) sexually assaulted by father and then later as a teen
She was fucked from the start

>>40100458
Aww I'm so sorry asking you to feel about the people you're hurting hurts you on the inside. I'm sorry that for a brief moment you have to consider that you've let you heart become a disgusting black icor. I'm sorry it hurts.
Maybe you could consider why you support the people who want us dead? Become a nicer person with more empathy and an ability to feel?

>>40100496
okay but actually it's because she didn't start at age 11 you see

>>40100516
>born as a white male into one of the most prosperous nations of the world
>to wealthy white parents
>fucked from the start
utter delusion

>>40100445
>So why should we outright ban the care rather than just order a study be conducted on the suicidality of gender dysphoric teenagers on hrt vs not?
Of course we should do clinical trials, that's a completely reasonable critique of these state-level bans.
>Why havent any anti tranny reviews meet any reviewer requirements
They do, see the systemic reviews.
When they do, activists (and people here) chimp out because they don't like the outcomes.
>>40100482
>It's impossible to conduct such a study because if someone is gender dysphoric forcing them to not be on hrt for ten years to test whether they kill themselves or not goes against medical principles of not doing harm
Per this SCOTUS ruling, obviously not.
>Maybe you could consider why you support the people who want us dead?
Maybe because they make better arguments and don't blatantly lie about the scientific record all while telling you that you just want kids to die. It's about as funny as anti-abortion activists.

>>40100496
Being raped by your father while the president openly plans taking away your ability to access your medication makes it pretty likely you'll kill yourself tbdesu

>>40100541
>could this be evidence that privilege hierarchies are actually bullshit?
>nah

>>40100556
>blatantly lie
Like the desistance rate studies? Like the detranmy rates are obviously 30% studies? Like the reviews? Like the blockers will lidderally kill you studies? Like the agp original study?

>>40100575
>could this be evidence that HRT isn't a magical miracle drug that instantly cures suicidality?
>nah
>>40100572
do you have one (1) single shred of evidence she was a victim of rape
and she lived in oregon. trannies getting their HRT taken away is literally not possible here in oregon. i live here, and if you did too you'd know that's utter lunacy to imply

>>40100556
The supreme Court isn't a fucking medical board actually. None of them have a fucking medical degree. There's a reason we don't do studies on suicidal populations this way

You do realize that the study you're proposing is utterly fucking monsterous right? Taking someone with a mental illness and deliberately not treating them or getting them any help and seeing if they kill themselves? How many people in the non control group would have to kill themselves before it'd satisfy you?

>>40100609
ermmmm gender dysphoria isnt mental illness you gross transmedicalist :/

>>40099845
i used an extreme example because i think it's harder to draw the line than you admit. lots of things are technically harm while being very much worth it, that's the basis of western medicine.
18 is crazy. 16 is more reasonable, id like more research to be done. as for suicide rates, why is that the end all be all? trans suicide completion rate is always actually fairly low, but attempt rate falls with transition and satisfaction with life and quality of life all improve greatly

>>40100590
Conservatives are actively plotting to ban hrt for adults. Trumps order was to ban hrt for legal adults 18-19. You're a fool if you think that this isn't about hating people like me. They want us dead you fucking retard. Everyday people shout from the roofs about how much better society would be without trannies. How trannies are evil. They sell fucking tshirts when we kill ourselves

>>40100622
Yes it fucking is. Fuck off

>>40100645
marijuana is banned federally but i can go out and buy some right now if i wanted to. oregon does not kowtow to the government like your pissant state might.

>>40100589
More like the finnish study last year, ""All-cause and suicide mortalities among adolescents and young adults who contacted specialised gender identity services in Finland in 1996–2019"
It's funny you mention detransition studies. The AMA and APA have a "policy packet" of 5 or so studies they prep for talking with state lawmakers to support childhood GAC, and one of them is a paper that interviews two (2) FtMtF detransitioners, decides they're culturally enriched because they now have deep voices, and concludes that because of those two anecdotes, detransition should be discarded as a metric entirely regardless of its rate for policy. I'll see if I can track it down, it's a good laugh.

>>40100660
don't pretend that won't impact us in blue states too

>>40100473
Trannies are like 0.1% of the population. Any marginal increase would support it. You just wouldn't care or would dismiss it as some other cause.

>>40100609
>The supreme Court isn't a fucking medical board actually.
Yes, that's the point. You should probably read the majority concurrence by Thomas to understand why that isn't the problem you think it is. It's 2025 babe, the institutions have eroded themselves to the point naive credentialism is dead.

>>40100658
imagine literally gatekeeping transness? i don't need some fascist in a white coat to tell me i'm a womyn!

>>40100556
>>40100609
As someone involved in a medical study for a new drug for a serious (non-mental) health issue, I'd like to point out that we literally were not allowed to have a placebo group. The control group is on one drug we know is effective, and the study group is on that drug plus the new one being researched. Your ethics board is simply not going to allow you not to treat something considered medically significant, so your only option is to observe people who refused treatment of their own will, which is obviously impossible to actually control or enforce.

>>40100660
Can't you recognize that this hatred for trans people isn't just legal? Trans womrn overwhelming live in poverty. They have the highest rate of unemployment among LGBT people. Trans people face violence at rate 2.5x higher than cis people. The entire world around us wants us dead.

>>40100673
>us
i'm not a tranny, i'll be just fine. if anything does happen, maybe it'll serve as a wakeup call that wishing death on everyone who isn't in your group kinda tends to end badly. but i don't think you'll ever be ready to admit that your own behavior may have lead to the consequences you experience, you'd rather blame whatever bogeyman and their evil malicious ways. that way you never have to admit you may have been wrong

>>40100667
>yapping
I accept your concession.

>>40100706
project more
retard

>>40100692
The complicating factor there is the placebo, and the hiding of the ineffective treatment.
In reality, you can make your own control group from an informed control group by saying, "you are part of the clinical trial, but not a part of the treatment."
Your medical ethics board may reject this based on their own standards, but the law does not.

>>40100717
and this is why your rights are being eroded!

>>40100682
Why would I read that man? Someone tried to have me physically beaten today. It's just going to be the same shit over and over again.
You people just want me dead

>>40100712
>provides a concrete study in contrast to your zuckerposting
>muh concession
Enjoy continuing to lose I guess

>>40100728
?

>>40100734
>Why would I read that man?
So you that you can avoid saying such retarded irrelevancies like
>but SCOTUS isn't a medical board!!!
as though it compels some outcome beneficial to you on its own.

>>40100718
And then people would drop out because they aren't getting treatment for their condition! Fuck you man

>>40100739
I accept your concession

>>40100705
literally all you had to do was leave kids alone. that was it. i have been around long enough to have seen this new wave of transphobia hit the nation. it was not always like this. this entire thing happened as soon as trannies
1. started going after kids
2. pushed for "informed consent" and self-ID
3. began treating cis people like they were the devil
when you're .1% of the population, why the fuck would you ever decide to lead a rebellion against 99.9% of the population? are you actually retarded? what did you think was going to happen???

>>40100756
>hey, the state allows us clinical trials but only so many people in the treatment group
>by joining the control group, we can gain data that could eventually help us overturn these laws with actual definitive proof
>you'd be helping everyone
>"nah fuck you man I'm out I'll suffer on my own"

>>40100755
I love how continuously have refused to answer the post of mine where I ask how many people would have to kill themselves in the no treatment group for you to stop the study and let people have their fucking healthcare. Or the one where I ask why we aren't doing that study instead of banning healthcare entirely preventing such a study from ever fucking occuring

>>40100718
Read this bit over for me:
>>40100718
>so your only option is to observe people who refused treatment of their own will, which is obviously impossible to actually control or enforce.
Aka, getting the perfect placebo group that you were requesting isn't actually feasible.
>Your medical ethics board may reject this based on their own standards, but the law does not.
Literally irrelevant. The law could say it's valid to study the power of Jesus to cure cancer, the ethics board isn't going to let you do that (and rightfully so) and so such a study won't manifest. If nobody will do the study, the argument that it's technically possible to do it is effectively irrelevant.

>>40100773
I never fucking decided to do any of that shit? Do you think I deserve to fucking die because of something I never did? Do I deserve to be mutilated? Fuck you

>>40096123 (OP)
can someone do the thing already

>>40100806
>Do I deserve to be mutilated
i mean you trannies do that to yourselves so...

>>40100789
>I love how continuously have refused to answer the post of mine where I ask how many people would have to kill themselves in the no treatment group for you to stop the study and let people have their fucking healthcare
Enough over a 10 year period to demonstrate a nontrivial reduction in the treatment group. If you assume a 10k control group and a 10k treatment group, 100 suicides occur in the control group, and 50 occur in the treatment group, that's a 50% reduction in suicide, very compelling. So there you go, 150 deaths. We accept 10x that a year for having roads and cars and shit.
>Or the one where I ask why we aren't doing that study instead of banning healthcare entirely preventing such a study from ever fucking occuring
I already said in thread that I support clinical trials and reject state bans that ban them.

>>40100744
Anon's arguing for collective guilt. "You didn't summon the Trans Council to smite Lily Tino with lightning so you, random anon on 4chan, deserve to suffer and die." It's a retarded Christian concept of original sin applied to social groups/identities.

>>40100804
If your ethics board is horse trading over their moral feelings for no valid legal or financial reasons, when the outcome is objectively better for trans people (actually answering the question on GAC and suicides), then your ethics board is being retarded and counterproductive. They're pearl clutching instead of being effective.

>>40100773
This guy would've argued for conversion therapy for gay teens ten years ago btw.

>>40100844
>hey man, not EVERYONE in the KKK deserves to be called a racist! stop generalizing people just because of their identity, chuddie!

>>40100808
you do the thing if you care so much

>>40100779
People who are suicidal and want to not be suicidal don't participate in studies where they don't get treatment to not be suicidal. People who want to get better and get treatment want to get better and get treatment.
Even if this study was conducted and it had the gruesome kid death toll you want. It wouldn't cause people to hate us any less! These bans aren't about studying gender dysphoria and trying to make treatment better, they're about making us suffer. No one is going to believe you if you say "oh if this study proves it you'll get healthcare" man. We can see that people joke about our deaths. We can see people openly insult trans people in Congress. We can see that people sell shirts mocking our deaths.

>>40100853
no i wouldnt have. i believe trannies were on the right trajectory toward being accepted. the focus was on treating the underlying mental illness and integrating the tranny into society as a functional woman. that was perfectly sensible and i fully support that model. what i do not support is 16 year olds injecting DIY estrogen from ukraine and then going on 4chan calling me a retard

>>40100844
collective guilt or even permanent individual guilt is actually funadmentally antiChristian actually, don't give their sham ideology undue credit

>>40100875
>People who are suicidal and want to not be suicidal don't participate in studies where they don't get treatment to not be suicidal
Seems like a pretty stupid and counterintuitive choice if the options are
>don't get treatment but help people
>don't get treatment and help nobody

>>40100829
But that study would be fucking monstrous man! That would be 50 extra dead fucking trans kids. That would 100 extra parents without a fucking kid anymore. That's horrendous
Go outside, look at a parent with their kid. Ask yourself if you'd be okay killing that kid for scientific certainty

>>40100852
Hey anon, I get that you're a psychopath and think we should carry out studies like "How long can people live if we remove their kidneys?" but humans do care about morals and ethnics. Like in this thread you're arguing that trannies deserve punishment for supposedly being unethical, but here you are now arguing we should have any ethics in medical studies and should only care about the limits placed by the law, not morality.

>>40100816
My face and body wete mutilated because I wasn't allowed GAC as a teenager because you bigoted cis people think that's what's best for me. Fuck you.
>>40100859
Funny because that's exactly what chuds would argue when they're not amongst themselves on /pol/ or similar.

>>40100898
you are too stupid to live. what is coming is simply the consequences of your actions, as well as the actions of your ilk. if you reject the actions of your peers, you should leave them behind. staying with them is condoning their behavior. have trannies never heard of guilt by assosciation?

>>40100877
>no i wouldnt have
But anon, your arguing to 'leave those kids alone', that is, that trans teens should not have their identity accepted, is equally applicable to gays. In fact, the exact same thing was said. Leave those kids alone, they're only identify as gay because of perverts like you.

>>40100892
Are you a fucking retard? People who are suicidal want to kill themselves. They're not in the mental place to think about the collective greater good. It's the job of medicine to help them, not poke them for satisfaction of onlookers

>>40100933
you can't gaslight me. i was literally there as a gay kid. i grew up in the era. the "groomer" shit didn't spawn until trannies started going after kids. there was a period of time where things were going so great. then people like IT IS MA'AM had to ruin fucking everything.

>>40100898
>Ask yourself if you'd be okay killing that kid for scientific certainty
Yes. It's not even a question. Statistically I (and you!) accept 3 dead children PER DAY for the privilege of stepping into my car and driving on the road.
In 2019 for example, our pharma companies tested Ebola treatments that killed 50%+ of the participants.
Laws and medicine are written in blood, pretending otherwise is retarded and fake.

>>40100926
I'm not trans because it's some side I've chosen. I'm trans because I happened to be born trans. I'm trans because I have gender dysphoria

>>40100906
>How long can people live if we remove their kidneys?
False equivalence, we know the answer to that question already
>how do we know?
Because we've fucking done it, you knob.

>>40100910
you are the one who sees being male as being wrong

>>40100667
>All-cause and suicide mortalities among adolescents and young adults who contacted specialised gender identity services in Finland in 1996–2019
>Some of the psychiatric morbidity warranting specialist-level psychiatric treatment may have emerged only after the contact to gender identity services and may therefore theoretically not truly represent confounding but a pathway linking GD to mortality.
this part of the limitations i think says it better than i can. i think we shouldn't be considering it a confounding variable. i actually said this earlier >>40100509

>>40100959
You're a fucking monster. I hope you rot in hell

>>40100978
so you're advocating for gatekeeping trannies behind whether or not they were "born that way"? what about people who self-ID as trans without gd? what about cases of ROGD? you're such an uneducated bigot

>>40100910
Because you have bdd the state should be able to abduct 10 year olds from their parents and sterilize them using tax dollars?

>>40100906
>trannies deserve punishment for supposedly being unethica
The argument isn't that trannies deserve anything. It's pointing out that they've lost the public support and the legal headway because of choices made by their medical boards and advocates.
This isn't a moral position. It's a realpolitik position. Play the board as it lies. Or try to flip it if you think you can.

>>40100878
Christianity believes all humans deserve eternal torture and suffering in hell because one guy ate a fruit once he was told not to.

>>40100994
he's literally just telling you how the world works you underaged retard. maybe you'll learn that once you move out of mommy and daddy's house.

>>40100954
>Nuh uh I was a kid back then so I know everything adults were talking about

>>40100994
Neat, I and most of the public find that wholly unpersuasive and will continue on our days without altering.
This whole
>shame on you, evil bigot
thing is so 2020.

>>40100980
> It was good and morally okay to rip people of their kidneys and see how long it would take them to die
Why did I spend an hour arguing with you. This is the type of shit demons say in video games

>>40101025
i use the word "kid" to refer to anyone below the age of 25. like you!

>>40101023
I for one am strongly against killing fucking children. This apparently a radical Marxist only position on this hellsite

>>40101029
trannies can't seem to decide if they're anti-science or pro-science. in fact it seems like they flip and flop depending on whether or not it's good for their current situation. curious! when we're talking about brain scans it's all science all the way, but the second being pro-science goes against their position suddenly science is evil and demonic. normal!

>>40100980
>False equivalence, we know the answer to that question already
It's an example, spastic. I mean that too, being incapable of thinking in abstracts is a sign you are actually a sperg.
>Because we've done it!
Yes and it was immoral to have done so, the point is that you advocate for a return to immorality.
>>40101017
If you were making a realpolitik argument you wouldn't keep letting your personal opinions slip in the way you do.

>>40100000
>playing with their delusions and babytalking them instead of forcing them to eat
the trans equivalent of that is social transitioning for minors and you should really have stopped pushing once you got there

>>40101029
See >>40101028.
Missing from your self-indignation post is the context of voluntary consent, e.g. that we know because we've explained to terminal patients that they can spend their last moments in ways helpful to science, and they consent and agree. Which is what's being proposed for voluntary control groups in light of GAC bans. But hey, go off, I'm sure your moral superiority will keep you warm as you keep losing.

>>40101047
once again, you may not like it but science sometimes has consequences. that doesn't mean all scientific advancement should be banned forever. you're literally sounding more and more like a conservative as you speak.

>>40101005
Because you're scared a cis kid might regret it, the state should disallow all GAC for any minors? Hm, maybe we should ban vaccines for diphtheria and tetanus for minors, too.

>>40101057
>If you were making a realpolitik argument you wouldn't keep letting your personal opinions slip in the way you do.
All of my personal opinions are realpolitik opinions. I'm actually Henry Kissinger, I just faked my death.

>>40100998
nta but the way you keep throwing shit like this in everyone's faces is extremely dishonest. "Oh yeah!? What about this random position some insane person has!? Obviously you're guilty of it too!" Even when they never claimed to hold such a view. You have been told, I'm sure, that there's no tranny hivemind. You can't blame people for what other people think, nobody here has any power to control others. Certainly you wouldn't like to be lumped together with a young earth creationist simply because you're both anti-tranny.

>>40101074
The suffering of ten trans kids is worth less than any cis child.

>>40101032
I'm 34 you fucking poseur.

>>40101054
>>40101071
Neither of you actually care about science or gender dysphoric kids. You just hate trans people and support a culture that hates trans people

>>40101074
As soon as one cute cis kid gets in the system and "regrets" it then it's game over for any transgender support, so yes

>>40100959
the prevalence of cars in our society is kinda shit imo. like, we could easily reduce car deaths by reducing the amount of cars on the road by making it so you don't need to drive in order to get places
>>40101071
voluntary consent from who? who suffering from gender dysphoria would voluntarily consent to not getting hrt

>>40101086
That's true since cis children will go on to reproduce

>>40101097
keep clutching onto that self-righteous fury as your rights continue to be stripped away

>>40101085
It's really annoying. I don't deserve to be tortured and mutilated for the actions of other people.
Sigh I should leave the thread. This is basically digital self harm.

>>40101124
>voluntary consent from who? who suffering from gender dysphoria would voluntarily consent to not getting hrt
The ones in states like TN who aren't legally getting HRT anyway
>DIY
is a fair counterpoint, but not everyone is going to go that route.

>>40101005
This argument is pretty easily applied to a lot of things.
>Should the state be allowed to abduct a parent's child just because they're in a suicide cult!?
>Should the state be allowed to abduct a parent's child just because their parents won't treat their leukemia!?
And on. You basically hold the view that kids are property and parents can do what they like to them, rather than the more sane view that parents hold a responsibility to their kids. Because of that responsibility, when a child is sick, in any sense, the parents should be mandated to seek help.

>>40101085
transmedicalism is used in the same way fascism is nowadays. it is a position i have seen arguments against more times than i can count on this very website, on other websites, and irl in the meatspace.

>>40101144
The bans in these states fundamentally prevent such a study from being done

>>40101081
You joke, but you definitely have a too-high opinion of yourself regardless.

>>40101150
>when a child is sick, in any sense, the parents should be mandated to seek help.
The critical question, of course, being what qualifies as being "sick" and what level of intentional parental inaction qualifies as sufficient harm.
You can fill in the gaps legally using today's ruling.

>>40101169
of course they don't, they just need to collaborate with people in a different state

>>40101169
so just tell us why GAC should be seen as the default treatment when it doesn't actually measurably reduce harm? can you just do that for us

>>40101175
You know they didn't have to compare themselves to one of the most prolific mass murderers of the past century. All on their own. Heart made of black tar

>>40101175
>too-high opinion
Then it definitionally must be grounded in amoral, pragmatic reasons, and therefore is correct :D

>>40101054
>trannies can't seem to decide if they're anti-science or pro-science.
You remind me of those evangelical Christians who reject science altogether in that you think people who don't reject science must agree with anything just because a paper was written, just like they (think that) they take every word written in the Bible as truth. (In fact, maybe you are one.)
Criticizing a very obviously bad paper that doesn't actually back up its claims with sufficient evidence is just normal operating procedure.

>>40100773
>not wanting kids who are like you were to be blocked from seeking out treatment that could give them the chance to live semi-normal happy lives instead of being turned into disfigured societal outcasts for the rest of their lives/“going after kids”

>>40101164
So what? My point is that you're arguing with powerless individuals. Not hiveminds, and not movement leaders. You can rail all day against self-ID, and that's fine, but you can't just automatically assume your opponent supports it as a means to discredit them. You definitely can't insist they are individually responsible for other people pushing for self-ID, or whatever other position you hate. Argue with the person you are engaging with, not the perfect punching bag projected onto them.

>>40101182
That would be illegal. Taking a kid out of state to receive treatment is illegal under most of these bans
>>40101192
You can't moral fag that you just want studies when someone points out that policy you support bans those studies. The fuck?

>>40101175
My words from earlier in thread:
>Of course we should do clinical trials, that's a completely reasonable critique of these state-level bans.

>>40101229
Whoops, meant for >>40101169

>>40101220
if they don't support self-ID and informed consent and all that shit, then i would ask why they continue to assosciate with those that do. i myself am not a racist, so i stay away from racists and don't assosciate with them.

>>40101220
But you see the reason they like arguing with trannies is that we aren't people! To them were under mensch. We're things you're allowed to abuse and mock in public and people will support you!

>>40101228
why can't you just answer the question? if GAC does not measurably reduce harm, why should it be the default treatment? do you suggest we go back to treating the flu with bloodletting because some people say it totally works?

>>40101181
Nobody here is operating in the function of a lawyer (even if that is your job,) so understand that we are arguing in the context of 'should' and not 'is.' We can acknowledge what this ruling says, but that doesn't really have an impact on the 'should' that we are actually discussing. Your main opponent mixes these two up, but I understand the distinction. If you're only interested in arguing the 'is' of the matter then there's no point in engagement, since you're essentially just a legal robot. Debates in our current context are for the sake of 'should', since we're not legislators or judges.

>>40101116
And yet when I say I regret being forced to go through my natal puberty because I was denied GAC I'm mocked as BDD and a groomer. Go figure.

>>40101252
Because you can't magically stop being trans because you don't like what other trans people say you dumbass >>40101229
So why do you support these bans then? Why do you moral fag for them in these threads

>>40101203
The number of people who hide their personal biases and greed behind 'logic' and 'pragmatism' is uncountable.

>>40101144
sounds pretty good actually i'd be down for that. i disagree with the idea that the information we have points to minor transition being unhelpful but if we have the ban in place may as well make use of it
>>40101228
>That would be illegal. Taking a kid out of state to receive treatment is illegal under most of these bans
they mean comparing a group from TN with a group outside of TN, and you would probably have to control for community support and stuff

>>40101228
>Taking a kid out of state to receive treatment
they wouldn't be getting treatment dude, that's the whole point. it's not like you can have placebo groups when only one of them is growing in their conetits

>>40101211
Lay people are very prone to thinking peer review isn't real.

>>40101269
I mean I could make an argument but I really can't tell if you aren't the same person as the one pretending that they totally don't support these bans. It's not really worth it

>>40101320
>no no no i'm totally right i just uhhh i left the stove on lol
come on

>>40101301
Well I guess you could do that study but it will be a monstrous and unethical one. I also have significant doubts it would actually change anything. They'd just make a new bar for trans medicine to clear because if they cared about medicine they would have just funded a new study. These laws are about hurting people like me. They're just an expression of a transphobic culture that hates us. People don't need evidence to be reactionaries filled with hate

>>40101252
>why they continue to assosciate with those that do
Define 'association'. Everyone here is anonymous, so unless they indicate they are part of a group, you cannot automatically know that they are in 'association' with anyone or anything. The only thing you can reasonably pin on your opponents is being transsexual, but you might as well lump all gay people together for 'associating.'
>>40101255
Yes, it's called othering.

>>40101287
>So why do you support these bans then? Why do you moral fag for them in these threads
So that you dense motherfuckers will actually understand how the world works, how you affect it, and alter your tactics and choices accordingly. The last 10 years included such gems as
>gatekeeping is never a good idea
>it's fine to be trans even if you don't have dysphoria, trans is a spiritual essence divorced from rational verification
>the arc of history bends towards justice (and we're obviously on the side of justice) so we never have to rein in our excesses
>compromise is what pickmes do, maximally press and die on all the hills, even the ones on the 20% side of 80/20
>the science is settled, anyone who suggests otherwise is a bigot science denier etc
Those things have accrued and accumulated over time and produced the following outcome. See it for what it is, recognize how you've contributed, and act accordingly.

>>40101313
> Transfem flag
> Dude
Yep I'm done. I'm not going to engage with you anymore. Comparing yourself to a mass murderer of Laotian children should have been enough but this is enough to recognize that you're only in this to hurt vulnerable trans women

>>40101366
nta, again, but once more you blame a random anon for the actions and opinions of people they have no control over. People here are powerless. Pinning blame on them is unreasonable.

>>40097308
>banning trans healthcare is a pro trans stance in the stance 90% of trans kids aren't really trans so it's a better health outcome for them
Maybe this is true? I think the best test is whoever genuinely desires srs and knew they were the wrong gender at <5 years old are actually trans and should be medically affirmed. We are way too quick to affirm everyone as transgender when it’s just not the case unless those two criteria are met

>>40101373
dude isn't gendered any more you hypersensitive moron, everyone uses it

>>40101414
>People here are powerless
You aren't powerless over yourself. If you can look at that list personally and say
>hey, I haven't carried water for any of that, IRL or online or even just among friends
then congrats, you can feel absolved. But odds of that here are low.

Oh and just to preempt,
>but muh republicans
Sure. But they aren't here, and if they were, they get their own scold list when they're losing. (They're not currently losing, btw).

>>40101414
If the people here are powerless, then who is pushing for "trans kids"?
Actually, hasnt this medical treatment been done on minors for decades? How did this even get into the limelight recently?

>>40101452
Conservative media scaremongering :^)

>>40101192
i disagree with the notion that the available evidence does not support minor transition and i've articulated why itt but you never responded. notice me senpai </3

>>40101414
>>40101444
Oh and just to add, if you've also stayed silent while groups you participate in carry water for these ideals (and we know that legbutt groups are prolific around colleges and the internet), you also have some culpability, because you enabled groupthink to pervade and cause materially bad outcomes.
It's super easy to make up for, too. Just say something to people when you see retarded groupthink positions in future.

>>40101431
Who the fuck even has more than two or three memories from before 5 years old? What an intentionally unrealistic standard.

>>40101444
>You aren't powerless over yourself
>You can feel absolved
The issue, argumentatively, is that you preemptively applied those positions to everyone you replied to without evidence. It's the rhetorical equivalent of opening a debate with "Why do you eat babies?" If your opponent does eat babies, let them say so, or point to some evidence that they do, before you insist on it.
>>40101452
Nobody here is pushing for shit because they're all NEETs, students, and random lower middle class people whose only free time is spent shitposting on the internet.
>>40101480
It's because his goal isn't really to engage in fair debate, it's to lambast a strawman. If you don't sit still and let him beat you like a strawman, he's got no ammo to use and just slides off to the next potential target.
>>40101498
>While groups you participate in
How do you know what groups I participate in? Once again, you are making presumptions the foundation of your argument. Why do you eat babies, anon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25aekcL9NgY

>>40101577
>Why do you eat babies?
>How do you know what groups I participate in?
I've been on this board for around a decade. If I'm engaging an anonymous group that over a decade routinely makes arguments for eating babies and discusses their favorite types of baby to eat, I don't need to know their individual names and addresses and lip gloss color to address them as baby eaters.

Look at that list. Look at where you are. Look at trannydom broadly. If you find yourself still not its focus even in one facet and think you've been maligned, then feel good about yourself and consider it not about you. But you're deluding yourself if you think it doesn't apply to the board or the community at large.

>>40101613
Oh my, in that case I'm sure you have great evidence for this collective baby eating guilt? After all anon, you were such an advocate for evidence and study up above. Or I can take you on your word for it, and presume that means it's fair to beat every single random anon over the head with the weight of that presumption, and actively fight them whenever they point out they don't agree with something you assigned to them.
>Look at that list
It's very vague, I could nitpick it.
>Look at where you are
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
>Look at trannydom broadly
The entire point of what I'm telling you is that you cannot engage in collective guilt and it is dishonest to do so. Anon #40101613 cannot be blamed for what any member of a group they belong to is doing when you cannot identify anon as agreeing with said action. If anon was known to have power in said group and be able to publicly disavow or work against said actions then perhaps it would be different, but then they also would not be an anon.
>Consider it not about you
The point is that you have tried to force it to be about 'you' with everyone you have talked to. You blame all of your opponents for the perfect punching bag that represents everyone with any opinion on transsexuality and transsexual issues you disagree with, all rolled into one.

>>40101722
>in that case I'm sure you have great evidence for this collective baby eating guilt?
Of course, namely my 10 years of interaction.
>actively fight them whenever they point out they don't agree with something you assigned to them
You'll be hard-pressed to find that happening ITT. If someone tells me, "hey I don't defend X", I accept it.
>Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Sorry bruvnor, but when the real world's discourse begins to resemble the ocean of piss, we don't get to pretend the ocean of piss is artificial cosplay.
>you cannot engage in collective guilt
Sure I can. At the very least I can people broadly, "if this applies to you, and from the data I have it likely does, fix your shit or continue to experience losses"
> the perfect punching bag that represents everyone with any opinion on transsexuality and transsexual issues you disagree with, all rolled into one
They're free to dissociate with the bad opinions whenever they wish and stop being punched.

Anyway, enjoy the end of thread.

>>40101798
>Of course, namely my 10 years of interaction.
Someone who was so keen on study methodology should be aware of what the value of an anecdote is.
>I accept it.
No, you pivot to the collective guilt. "Why do you associate with them?" or "Well the community thinks x!" like that has any bearing on the argument you're having.
>When the real world's discourse...
It resembles more the same exact boomer pearl-clutching I've seen in my life with everything from gays, to D&D, to Pokemon, to an infinite variety of things.
>Sure I can
And discredit yourself thus. The insistence that your opponents all agree with your strawman is why this went on as long as it has. You only petered off when I engaged with you in a more dispassionate fashion than the others.
>They're free to dissociate with the bad opinions whenever they wish and stop being punched.
In my posts I am obligated not to tell you all the things I do not think, only what I do. That is how an above-the-board debate actually functions. That, and the pivot to the collective other, is why you have been called dishonest.

>>40096472
Never unlikely. Obergefell depends on Loving v Virginia as precedent which essentially ruled that there is a fundamental right to marriage. They'd have to overturn Loving to overturn Obergefell

>>40101903
>Someone who was so keen on study methodology should be aware of what the value of an anecdote is.
Someone who was so keen on study methodology should be aware of what the value of an anecdote is
When the thread hits page 11 I'll append my baby-eating posts per week graph
>"Why do you associate with them?" or "Well the community thinks x!"
You can do better than that. The specific complaint isn't association, but silence in the face of bad opinions.
>It resembles more the same exact boomer pearl-clutching I've seen in my life with everything from gays, to D&D, to Pokemon, to an infinite variety of things.
That's funny, because when I see GLAAD, the AMA/APA policy packets, queer thought leaders and news representation, and queer discourse on the street, it matches my list. Wack.
>The insistence that your opponents all agree with your strawman
Except I have no insistence. I conceded an out from that on the post immediately after. But it's a nice self-invention.
>In my posts I am obligated not to tell you all the things I do not think, only what I do.
Then be judged by the overbearing presence of your collective.

>>40096787
I think it has a lot more to do with the text of the statute. Gorsuch ruled about employment discrimination based on the specific textual language of Title VII. Title VII isn't relevant here, the text is the 14th amendment, so his ruling is different because the relevant text is totally different.

>>40101973
>When the thread hits page 11 I'll append my baby-eating posts per week graph
I'll be long gone, hopefully.
>The specific complaint isn't association, but silence in the face of bad opinions.
That is an even flimsier point, as you have no way to tell if an anonymous is ever silent due to said anonymity. Arguing like you're dealing with accounts is a classic newcomer mistake on this site.
>That's funny, because when I see...
What did we just say about anecdotes? While ignoring the behavior of the groups in power at that.
>I conceded an out from that on the post immediately after
You pivoted to the imagined collective guilt, which we are still discussing. You 'concede' in the midst of a pivot. You say "Well it doesn't apply to you but everyone else..." or the like, which is why we are discussing the fact that you make presumptions and assign collective guilt right now.
>Then be judged by the overbearing presence of your collective.
Identify then all the collectives to which I belong.

>>40102037
>Identify then all the collectives to which I belong.
Nope, I'll tell you what your collective is doing and then I'll decide for myself whether you choose to distance yourself or not.
BTW, this is another real life lesson for you. It's how normies are judging you right now as well.

>>40102056
I'm aware how normalfags function, but I'm having a discussion with you, not with the normalfags collectively. You can't use them as an excuse for bad debate etiquette on your part. We are not currently talking about, or playing some shadowgame, how to sell your opinion to the proles, and how they perceive things. We are currently talking about the flaws in how you engaged in discussion that made you out to be biased and working in bad faith.
BTW for you, I'm not even a tranny, I'm a dirty repper. You presumed I was part of a different group from the start, showing the error of that tactic.

>>40096153
Tennesseein' is tennebelievin'!