>no childhood memories and if they exist they are male or fake
>no traumatic event that turned me like this
>no parents
>no sense of self but definitively male
>transformation and yuri and fetish hentai since forever
>male all my life
>trying to troon in and off hrt since 2019 or earlier with various levels of success
> just hit the longest period of hrt (2 years)
What’s the point? My sense of self is still a weirdo male. The girl is a vague shape of nothing that exist in context of my surroundings not my inner self
I might try to do the ultimate detransing. Im just tired of seeing other trans people live actual lives. Even if their lives are traumatic in the end they are women. In the end they show that quality that I lack. Regardless of their repression or acceptance. They have SOMETHJNF to hug at night and they know they are real girls.

>>40146888 (OP)
nice trips girlie do your big tits make you feel like a manly man?

>>40147650
My tits are manly and not even A cups
So is my beer gut

>>40146888 (OP)
>"but if ur daddie tawt u how to chaynj tyre u woodnt tran!"
i can tell you, as a transwoman who has a terrible relationship with the biological father who taught her how to change tires, that this line of thinking is just nonsense

>>40146888 (OP)
Why would you believe trans women are women?

>>40146888 (OP)
>OP pic
She should still know how to change a tire. I’m bad w car stuff too but that one is basic, and women don’t need to be helpless w this kinda stuff. I will say that I visited home recently and my dad needed help working on the tractor, and dads do push a masc image w that kinda stuff

>>40147677
trans women are men pretending unconvincingly to be women

>>40147755
>>40147677
Die

>>40147764
ok but you should know how to change a tire

>>40147764
I don't want to die I want to know how you can believe trans women are women

>>40147764
the denizens of this place key on self-hatred like vultures fly to blood and rot. don't give them the satisfaction of being a meal for them

>>40147781
I just want to know why OP believes trans women are women. I didn't know it's such a sensitive topic for yall

>>40147800
they are men
they know its a larp
but women are the privileged caste
claiming to be a woman is claiming to be worth something + sexually valuable intrinsically

>>40147800
>don't mind me I'm just derailing yet another thread
Could you just like kill yourself or something? God knows nobody will miss you if this is how you spend your time.

>>40147781
you can always turn off your phone

>>40147822
you will never be a real woman

>>40147822
It's not derailing it's a question about something OP said. You could like answer the question instead of all these histrionics

>>40147845
you are asking brainwashed cultists to disobey their programming

>>40147845
Women are women
Isn’t that simply?

>>40147857
are seahorses horses?

>>40147879
Are stadium chairs chairs?

>>40147857
I just wanted to understand why you think trans women are women but then exclude yourself from that. I won't bother you any longer.

>>40147891
a man in a dress is not a woman

>>40147833
I already am you tard, you on the other hand will never even be a human being. You are doomed to a soulless existence of misanthropic inhumanity.
>>40147845
Sorry for offending you, I didn't realize that you'd get so upset when all I did was say what everyone knows.

>>40147906
calm down woman

>>40147906
you are a man with psychosis living a lie

>>40147901
Nobody talked about men

>>40147913
I am more of a woman and more of a human being than you will ever be. I live my life in a way that vindicates the dignity of the human spirit, you live yours in a way that degrades it below the lowest form of gutter trash.

>>40147928
trans women are men who hear voices telling them they are women, the voices are lying

>>40147933
trannies aren't human and belong in a dumpster

>>40147938
Sorry that you are repressing

>>40146888 (OP)
Same, but I've been on hrt for 7~ years. Detrans for 2 years once but dysphoria got to me even though I just present male, bind my breasts and I'm generally uncomfortable in my body.
I never passed. Tried the boymode to girlmode babysteps but mostly presented androgynously and eventually went back to masc fashion. Wore a dress like twice and every time men asked me about trans stuff.
Had a trans egf once and it was the happiest month of my life but I got the feeling she was disappointed when we met and she broke it off soon after.
I wish I could die but I'm too cowardly to kill myself even in attempts.

>>40147956
sorry that you see being male as doing something wrong

>>40147945
>you're not human because you're a tranny! you belong in a dumpster
Quod Erat Demonstrandum, nazi dog. You will receive your just desserts in due time.

>>40147945
way to show your true colors gincel. sorry you hit twinkdeath years ago but that doesnt mean you should be bitter and hateful like this

>>40146888 (OP)
distinction without difference. i know so many hons looked at me at pride and thought things like you're thinking right now. that somehow, bc of the way i look, i have some ineffable subjective quality that you lack. and that's just not true. i mean, maybe some trannies can manage to change the tenor of their inward speaking. maybe that's really why they voice train. but my inward voice still sounds the same as it always has, since i went through male puberty. i question the femininity of my subjectivity probably just as much as you do. i definitely don't go home at night and "know" i'm a real girl. i think that's just your way of saying "if i had that, it would be so much easier to believe in myself"

if you're not happy with your transition so far, you can always tweak things. i got conetits bc planned parenthood is garbage for hormones, but since i've been seeing a real endo and switched medications, they've been filling out, even though i didn't start seeing the endo until i'd already been on hrt for three years. you're as real as anybody else

>>40147987
"woods" is a great surname for a hangman. bitter gall turned sweeter than dripping honey

>>40146888 (OP)
You just described 100% of trans lesbians bucko

>>40148005
I need to believe you but I can’t
I wish I could
But there is the bug in my head that screams at me that you(and any other “you”) is real trans.
Do I need to refer to every single instance of transness or lack there of? I hope not. Needless to say all of that just invariably make feel fake. The differences. The lack of trans experiences. The inner world that’s all fucked up. I will never have what you have. What trans people have. I wish I wasn’t fake.

>>40148034
No
They have real trans experiences. Dysphoria thats substantial since childhood.
I’m old and busted
Male since and before and now

>>40148053
No, they are just lying about that and/or retconning their memories/gaslighting themselves.

>>40148045
i'm going to parrot a zizek quote that has helped me a lot in this: "reality is the worst ideology." meaning, that the idea of being "real" is even more abstract than the idea of "existing," so, on the level of ideology, appealing to reality is the equivalent of saying "what i believe is isomorphic with the state of the case." which is a laughably ignorant epistemological position

in other words, there's no such thing as a "real" anything. reality is a fiction that we use to classify objects

>>40148082
I’m doing it too and badly

>>40148090
I’m lying to my own thoughts about my own thoughts then
I am lying about my thoughts
I’m lying about what i am and what I feel
If reality is fiction so am I and there is no choice
Idk what I’m saying
What is this xd? Why.

ive just accepted im just a weird fetishist and tell myself im taking hrt to kill my sex drive. the idea of getting more masculine horrifies me but i think its more because im scared of taking agency for myself and being a "man" and not because i actually want to be a woman. the way masc men are perceived in public is definitely a part of it too though.

>>40147933
>I am a woman
>look inside
>it's an angry man

>>40147661
Just stop. Do yourself a favor and learn to accept that this isn't for you. Move on from this obsession and make the best of your life in other ways.
Not being manly ≠ being woman

>>40148115
If you aren't a tranny then why do you want to be one? Wanting to be a tranny is even more fucked up than wanting to be a woman you know.

>>40148115
yes, "you" are a fiction. at least, "you" in the sense that i have to interpellate "you" to talk to you. that's the little you, the little self, the self-as-consciousness, which is just a small part of your Self, your whole self, which is the body, all its process, and, more than that, the state of the body existing outside the constraints of categories -- the "body without organs"

>>40148211
Agp/agamp sexual shit
Nothing real
>>40148223
Wdym

>>40148191
Yeah I’m detransing nw

>>40148238
And AGP applies to most of the trans women that you believe to be real. You are contradicting yourself. Maybe you are literally too stupid to be trans because you can't detect the logical contradictions in your thoughts.

>>40148238
you exist prior to me calling you "you." your body exists prior to being a grammatical subject, or a collection of organs, or a "real" trans person, or anything else

>>40148256
Wdym
Wanting to be trans is fucjex irl you said it yourself

>>40148288
You retards can't keep your story straight because you want to validate your tranny friends while invalidating yourself. Genuinely the most stupid subtype of tranny that there is.

>>40148287
If reality doesn’t matter what am I doing here?

>>40148297
cope

>>40148309
Substantiate that

>>40148311
dont feel like it

>>40148315
cope

>>40148301
but you're still acting like reality is a complete totality when it isn't. that's the lie they use to control you. whenever anyone says, "you're not a real [x]," they're implying that their ideology of reality gives them a total view of all facts. that's why, when you press terfascists who say "you're not a woman," they'll always eventually retreat to "well, you're not a *real* woman." by using the concept of reality ideologically they shut themselves off from everything empirical. that's why it's so epistemologically laughable, and ironic, and why it's the "worst ideology"

>>40148297
What was the conversation about even
I’m dissociating

>>40148322
Substantiate that

>>40148337
Not dissociating enough clearly

>>40148351
I feel like it

>>40148332
Oh
I guess I’m trans cause I’m taking hormones sbd have tits?
What if I can’t understand myself in relation to myself and just flow in the river like a leaf
Despite my free will and effort I still can’t admit this is something I genuinely want. Because admitting so admits I’m and have always been a woman which contrantics things like memories, experiences sbd importantly starting conditions. Repping till 25-26-27 with my history of maleness and agp and all the other crap is absurd

If I understand correctly, you just don't feel like you look like a "real woman", whatever you think a real woman looks like

>>40148353
Yeah that too isn’t real
Learned phrasing and behavior
Iwnbaw
Iwnbtt
Iwabam>>40148363

>>40148364
>my free will and effort
what effort?

>>40148374
I can tell you are lucid enough to understand what's happening. Pretending to be mentally ill for attention is womanly behavior.

>>40148363
seethe

>>40148384
why?

>>40148364
>What if I can’t understand myself in relation to myself and just flow in the river like a leaf
that's perfect. acknowledge the tremendous intelligence of the body. there are many things i don't consciously understand and don't think i need to consciously understand
>despite my free will
disagree. "free will" was invented by christians to destroy rome (it worked). there is no such thing

>>40148379
this is so me fr fr i love festering in my mental illness completely knowingly

>>40148370
Or feel or am one
>>40148376
At the very messy me seeking out hrt and doing it for a couple years
Other minor things I feel are too small to bother mentioning. Laser? Coming out(in a way) to close friends?

>>40148389
seethe

>>40148385
idk i thought we were oppositeposting

>>40148393
im not seething im being 100% genuine and unironic. i love watching my mental state decline in real time while simultaneously psychoanalyzing myself constantly. its fascinating

>>40148400
and it also serves to drive my self hatred further

>>40148390
I mean, do you really indentify as a woman then? Causer maybe you are something else. If you know in your heart you are a woman, then you not that you are "not feeling like one", you just have dysphoria. That's like 99,99% of trans woman OP

>>40148379
I’m a fucking meme
Legit forgetting what was told need to read it back up
Ok but does wanting to be trans make anyone into a woman?
>>40148386
It still doesn’t explain why. Why the disconnect
Why now
Why in this way
Why a trans woman?
Agp/ porn/ other copes seem like logical explanations and they are copes because they don’t validate anything other than the dick male I am, doing crap for hedonism and not something inherently trans.
>>40148407
I don’t know
Crux of the issue

>>40148427
I asked what makes trans women women earlier. All I got was angry tranny responses, and this one reply from OP? >>40147857

As you can see there is no rational logical explanation behind it. So if you are looking one for yourself, you won't find one. It's just not there. All you can do is accept that you are one or reject the whole notion of trans women being real.

>>40148456
a woman is someone who 1. is perceived as others to be a woman, 2. perceives themselves to be a woman and 3. embodies a number of traits that one would consider "womanly"
if a biological female only fills out #2 and/or #1, they're still women because thats the default. but a biological male should fill out all 3, and even then they are more like the "i cant believe its not butter" of women and not an actual woman, but for most intents and purposes they serve the same role

>>40148427
we may have transitioned for essentially the same reasons. i remember sitting on my parents' porch one night, in early september 2019, smoking a cigarette and a bowl after i had just crossdressed and ridden a dildo while watching "braveheart" (just sound to make sure my parents didn't hear but i did end up imagining mel gibson fucking me). at the time, i had been identify as a cishet male for like three years, after my first attempt at coming out as trans ended with going back in the closet a month before my first endo appointment

and i thought to myself, watching the moths fly at the porch lights, "what the fuck am i doing? i can't maintain a job or a relationship bc i hate myself so much for this. even if trooning just kills this obsession with crossdressing and masturbating, it's so worth it." and it did, because, now, it isn't really crossdressing. i only wear girls' clothes so that fetish has totally died. i mean, yeah, sometimes i still put on a bodystocking and fuck myself in the mirror. and that's ok. our copes make us who we are. anyone who says it's wrong to cope this way or that way just hates themselves, and their own copes

>>40147818
>>40147800
Why do you samefag? It's cringe

>>40148161
>ermm you seething and you a male
>look inside
>a pile of wires

>>40148480
You are using more words but still not saying what these specific womanly qualities are. At bottom, the argument is that there is some mystery essence X through which conscious subjects can recognize a genuine woman, but you can't say what that is, because it's impossible.

Wtf is this bread even about
>>40148386
What's ur religion/inspirations for your worldview anon u sound kind of nietzschean but not
>>40148427
I wouldn't expect any meanungful short term return on intellectually debating your own experiences desu; insecurity & emotional confusion can both warp genuine trans feelings into agp/'faketrans'/whatever behaviors, and make ur trans feelings seem rly important to you when they're not
I decided to transition bc 1. I felt it was more important to be honest to what I was feeling than to avoid the shame of maybe being wrong & I had the confidence in my own good intentions/sincerity to do that, if I ever detransition ill just be like 'i was just genuinely trying to be myself' and 2. I realized I didn't care for relationships if I had to be a guy anyway, I just wanted to be completely invisible as a guy so if it didn't work it didn't change that much
Maybe putting the sexual shame aside & just asking yourself ur gut response to being a girl, a sister, a daughter etc would help? That was a pretty clear message for me.
Also work on ur trauma, the more u break down your fears and illusions the less your brain will be able to fuck with you

>>40148592
>What's ur religion/inspirations for your worldview
i love fred. the second preface to "birth of tragedy" always has me in tears. for me it went parmenides -> plato -> epicurus -> epictetus -> hobbes (tommy aquine suck my girldick odd dark age wolfshenker kill them all) -> hume -> kant -> schopenhauer -> nietzsche -> wittgenstein

This place is a fucking loony bin.

>>40148648
our greatest blessings come from madness, when it is given as a gift of the gods

>>40148494
I never came out
I just trooned
Porn agp w/e
I never crossdressed I just coomed to ago transformation shit
Still do once a month
Idk
I am glad for her and I don’t regret it or anything
I just want to move on and u can’t if my past is so unequivocally male

>>40148688
yes you can move on! we all have different experiences. no one knows how "male" your past is by looking at you, and, on top of that, that's just you judging and hating on yourself for having a "male past." quit it

>>40148638
Is that in the rough order you ascribed to them or found them valuable? You've read a lot more than me, I'm a bit surprised heroclitus isn't on there tho. Freddie is cool, on a gut level he's like one of the only old white guys I rly care to listen to, beautiful language & some beautiful instincts in his project

>>40148592
I’m my sincere your right
I’m wrapped now you r also right again
I transitioned because balding and male body was “second best” in my twisted mind. At some pint I didn’t want breasts but only because I wanted to hide my transition. Idc now. Hell they are nice in a way. Normal. Less libido is a blessing
I cared deeply to be lived in a pure way. Ideology again. I felt Shane and guilt was very how I was. I wanted to become the purest sense of being. Ideology yet again. But being male felt limiting.
AGP: can’t dress how u want can’t act how I want can’t be how I want. Grain of salt here, I am exaggerating.
Being called by my “female” name still surprises me t times
But when in rare cases I’m treated as female it’s more than ok. When I’m tested right it feels ok.
Maybe I’m twisting my feelings and memories again.
Headspace isn’t clear again…

>>40148698
It is so very impossible
The past describes and defines me
I want it gone
Rewritten
But only because of guilt and shame
I envy others so deeply
So ducked up xd

>>40148701
they're in chronological but not sequential order (for instance, i only read parmenides after reading michelstaedter's "persuasion and rhetoric"). it's a more ideal reading order for someone who has never read any of them. like, i read zarathustra for the first time when i was 14, i think? total waste of time: in fact, i think it damaged me. but re-reading it at 26, after reading much more prior philosophy, was groundbreaking: exformative, even. i have read some of the fragments but i listed parmenides bc i know him better than heraclitus

there is a reason so many people dangerously misunderstand. like buddha, or jesus, or socrates, he was a real psychologist, and therefore it was impossible for him to "do no harm." reading nietzsche without firm prior grounding in most of the western philosophical canon (and the classics) is the closest thing i can think of to a real cognitohazard. there's a reason he's so easily appropriated by fascists. he's always playing a character and expects you, the reader, to understand when he's wearing which mask, and how many other masks are behind it

>>40148793
>*dangerously misunderstand nietzsche
sorry i'll stop posting my shitty pseud blog now lol

>transbian
>doesn't pass
>perpetually unfunny
like clockwork

>>40146888 (OP)
I knew someone who detransitioned recently. Their transition always felt forced and obnoxious, on and off, moody, existential crisis.
The point is that you're doing this intentionally. Nobody is forcing you, and if you're not actually trans that's your own fault and your own worry to deal with. If you're just a weirdo male then save everyone the awkwardness and just detransition. The vague externalized fantasy of a girl is never going to take over, it's never going to pilot your body, it's never going to be you. If it's not who you are then nothing will change that, except nanomachines and brainwashing like in MGS.

>>40148822
transbian humor is very fascinating. theres a lot of AGAMP coded jokes combined with treating 2mg estrogen pills like theyre a hard drug

>>40148839
Yeah
Why don’t I let go?
So bizarre
You are prolly right

>>40148847
All the transbians I knew from here ramped up to 8-12mg oral estrogen in less than half a year. It didn't work out well for them, but they convinced themselves they were hyper feminine.

>>40148839
i detransitioned but stayed on estrogen

>>40148847
It’s the epitome of fetishising the condition

>>40148868
im talking reddit zoomer transbians mostly. theres a very distinct sense of humor where they idealize being a feminized male with feminized nerdy gay male traits but still adamantly insist they're real women and jerk off to yuri exclusively. and they act like estrogen is like a literal narcotic for some reason when the dose they take is barely enough to do anything. its really fascinating and someone should do a study into it

>>40148860
There are any number of reasons you do or don't do things. They're usually not too deep. Like trying to come up with a deep psychological and philosophical explanation for why someone is a fan of one sports team over another. Because of circumstances. Why did they enlist? Probably circumstances for a large part. Why did the lonely 4channer drowning in transformation fetish material since youth start transitioning and following the advice of 4chan trans and femboy anons? Circumstances.

>>40148890
They're the same then. Estrogen has established effects, but whether they underdose or overdose, they both think it does magical things that it does not do. To their own detriment.

>>40148902
I don’t wanna detrans
No reason
Hrt is fine
I just wanna exist
Be like how I wanna be

>>40148239
I don't feel the answer to everything is transitioning or detranstioning. OP keeps going on/off hrt like he isn't sure what he wants. Actual dysphoria havers don't do that. They'll manmode before stopping
On the other hand, you're probably being a retard and haven't done your shot or simply haven't had a guy tell you you're pretty lately
Detransing isn't all rainbows and unicorns. Menopause symptoms suck and le dysphoria will really hit when your boobs shrink a cup size.
Be sure it's what you really want and aren't just 2nd guessing yourself cuz big sad hit

>>40148945
I am only thinking of detransing but haven’t done so in a few years the beginning of thst really felt like the start of my transition
I hate the ambiguity that’s all
Why is there no assuredness like you say.
I don’t wanna get testosterone mixed again. Balding or growing massiver vibes and face. I already will never have fake looking hips. The only allure if any to detransing is akin to a suicidal of sorts. Almost but not really.
What do I even want to hear? Why make this thread? I’m not sure.

>>40148638
nta but Hobbes horribly mischaracterizes/willfully misunderstands scholasticism.

>>40148793
this is a good take btw.

>>40148932
You do you, but why do you have to be annoying while doing it? Why post or make threads? Everyone is going to judge you whether or not they say they do. You judge you, deep down, so put a lid on it or keep being annoying or whatever. Up to you.

>>40148912
what does it do when they overdose

>>40149032
Yeah you r right
Sorry
I’ll keep it out of view

>>40149012
hobbes horribly mischaracterizes a lot of things. my opposition to scholasticism is much more rooted in kant than in hobbes. i included hobbes bc he was obviously a huge influence on hume, kant, and schopenhauer (especially), but i don't personally get down with most of his thinking, other than his critiques of spiritual visions, "enthusiasm," etc. now that i'm saying this i realize i forgot to list spinoza. shame, shame, shame

>>40149090
Ahhhh I see.
>my opposition to scholasticism is much more rooted in kant than in hobbes
Can you say more?
> now that i'm saying this i realize i forgot to list spinoza. shame, shame, shame
Based, Spinoza's TTP was probably my biggest philosophical influence.

>>40149149
kant of aquinas:
>never trust someone who uses five arguments in place of one good argument
which isn't in itself a logical critique, but i do think it's a good rule of thumb. as far as i can tell, reading the scholastics and neo-scholastics and neo-thomists (platinga comes to mind), none of them have yet overturned kant's objections to the proofs of god. without logic as the godhead, scholasticism collapses, as does moral realism and every other "realist" system
>TTP
theological-political treatise? i love that one, too. his condemnation of augury and general peasant superstition in the introduction is so powerful, and fiery

>>40149196
>without logic as the godhead
Not sure I understand what you mean, though I agree that scholastic "proofs" of God kind of fall flat. But criticism of the possibility of revelation/proper interpretation of scripture (like that in the TTP) hits much harder anyhow.

>>40149004
Then don't detranstion. If just talking about it causes this much distress, stay the course. Even if you never pass, hrt reduces the amount of distress and that's the whole point.
You don't have to dress up in things that don't look good on you. You don't need to draw unnecessary attention to yourself. But also don't completely deny yourself things that make you happy because society. Find that middle ground

>>40149222
to me what unites all the realist systems is that they require some basic concept to be "real." scholasticism requires that the proofs of god demonstrate that he really exists, just like moral realism ultimately requires that moral laws "really exist," etched onto some ethereal tablet of the universe. what i mean by "using logic as the godhead" is that they are systems that require some logical sleight-of-hand to overcome the problem of transcendence

>>40149004
You want people to tell you what to do but you won't accept it unless the answer is what you actually want to do. You don't want to detrans so if people tell you to detrans you will keep waffling about it. Basically you want random anons to keep guessing at your heart's desire until someone gets it right. This is common in hysterical woman behavior but you don't want to be called a woman either so...

>>40146888 (OP)
>lesbian trans woman
that's just a straight man with a fetish

>>40149258
Gotcha, I think that makes sense. Thanks nonny!

>>40149247
Yeah I think I want that
I think hrt is part of that
I think I need to accept how my life has been and is
>>40149288
You are spot on
I don’t wanna guess for myself and “self diagnose”
Yet the “wrong” estimate feels wrong by itself
I guess if transitioning and stuff is my desire then I might as we call myself a trans woman
>>40149308
I’m bi actually

>>40149431
>I guess if transitioning and stuff is my desire then I might as we call myself a trans woman
i think it's /thread, girls. congrats to this nona >>40149288 for winning the thread

>>40149446
YeH she is right
Never satisfied
God damn it
Just shut up brain

>>40146888 (OP)
every man and woman should know how to change a tire. don't teehee gender euphoria skirt spinny yourself into lacking basic life skills

>>40146888 (OP)
picrel pisses me off