Y'all really cost the Democrats the 2024 presidential election

>>40225055 (OP)
2016 too, technically

>>40225077
Nah, Trump was pro-tranny in 2016 actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSyUWkHsOPQ

>>40225055 (OP)
not really the republicans managed to convince a bunch of uninformed cis people that trannies are evil and the democrats just kept yass kweening and hoping it would resolve itself

>>40225139
>uninformed
funny how the informed people come to the same conclusion

>>40225139
pretty sure informed people saw you guys advocating to give hormone drugs to children and said nah

>>40225055 (OP)
>Y'all really cost the Democrats the 2024 presidential election
Based!
Keep up the good work boys!!!

>>40225077
nah the democrats who thought backing hillary clinton was a good idea did that

>>40225155
uninformed people saying hormones are bad:
>yeeeaaah based
uninformed people on nuclear power and racial profiling:
>grrrrr hippies

>>40225191
I don’t even understand what point you’re making, but the vast majority of people disagree with you

>>40225191
>uninformed people on nuclear power
Can you clarify this one?

>>40225221
the western world is deathly afraid of nuclear power. at least europe is trying to greenify regardless but the us is going "BUT CHERNOBYL" while pumping coal fumes into their own airspace

>>40225221
>>40225220
people have such strong opinions on things they don't understand when its literally not a fucking problem. You being such pussies about hormones is no different from the hippies thinking a single gamma ray will make your nuts fall off and give you bone cancer.

>>40225118
Trump was partially the response to political correct SJWs on college campuses. They/thems and pronoun police, etc.

>>40225155
cis children regularly receive “hormone drugs” no one seems to have issues with that. if you actually cared about the gender dysphoric children you would seek to alleviate their suffering. as >>40225145 seems to already know, the current medical consensus is to let children hormonally transition.

>>40225237
it's women
"oh nooo we can't have radiation, what if it messes with muh fertility"
"oh noooo we can't have nukes because muh childreeeeeeen"
"no new technology because muh cuuuuunt"

>>40225243
this shit is not done by transsexuals and makes our lives harder

>>40225260
unironically this though, just stop being such pussies about everything and you will see the world set free

>>40225247
>if we give cancer patients anti-cancer drugs, why can't my healthy ass eat them for breakfast?

>>40225237
>>40225260
it's just the fossil fuel and green energy industries lobbying to keep nuclear power off the table

>>40225267
And yet you’re using the flag

>>40225286
Because you don't want titties? If you eat the titty pills your gonna get titties.

>>40225247
>consensus
that does not mean evidence was involved btw

>>40225297
unfortunately it's not, it's retarded women voters who are responsible for killing nuclear power off

>>40225286
in this case you would be taking your gender dysphoria medication (hormones). gender dysphoric patients do differ from cis patients and require separate care. the care that works to improve qol is hrt.
>>40225312
> that does not mean evidence was involved btw
while technically true there is evidence involved in this particular consensus. as it currently exists as a revision of standards of care that sought to prevent patients from hormonally transitioning

>>40225297
Its honestly a little deeper than that. The more I think about it, the more I realize society has developed a subconscious aversion to anything radiation related to protect itself from nuclear warfare. If Fukushima was an oil refinery, for the amount of damage it did it would not even be worth referencing because normies here would not remember it. Chernobyl has even been beaten out by hydro dam disasters on death toll no one cares about. Radiation protection standards around the world are tuned to health outcomes far more stringent than any chemical hazard.

The only thing truely catastrophic about radiation power is its potential in warfare, and if society did allow ourselves to fly around in atomic rockets and have cheap unlimited electricity that sounds nice, but it would make it way too easy for nuclear weapons to proliferate.

>>40225355
gender dysphoria is not a real condition

>while technically true there is evidence involved in this particular consensus.
a dozen tranny lobbies recently had the chance to put all the evidence to the US supreme court, they found there isn't any
so did the Cass Review

>>40225396
then why do people cut their balls off

>>40225368
Nuclear weapons are good too.
We used to have huge wars all the time, and sacrifice millions of young men to die for evil old fucks.
Thanks to nuclear weapons that never happens any more.
We should want more nuclear proliferation.

>>40225422
people do many things
there's probably more than one reason for it though

>>40225425
yeah maybe, technically nuclear explosives have peaceful applications too but i dont think society is at a point where we are ready for taking them out of military hands just yet

>>40225445
>people do many things
>like fucking the same gender
>like, try to turn themselves into the other gender
and whats the problem?

>>40225355
Your argument to the effect that "hormones are used in substitution therapy for adrenal insufficiency in cis patients, therefore it cures gender dysphoria" makes zero sense. being cis is totally irrelevant to what is being treated.

>>40225471
great, so if there's no problem, it's not a medical condition and y'all can pay for it yourselves when you're adults

>>40225396
>cass review
i suppose if you throw out any sort of straight forward data collection that answers the question “does hrt improve the lives of gender dysphoric patients?” then yes there really isnt “enough” data. an overwhelming majority of people who take hrt do not stop taking it. of those who do half ‘detransitioned’ because cisociety treated them like dog shit. if you asked any trans person on hrt “has your life improved taking this” they would say yes, but thats all “anecdotal” i guess
>>40225482
different patients can require similar treatment without having the same underlying cause you know that right? feeling hungry?

>>40225483
You would be surprised how many people kill themselves over skull shape though.

>>40225483
there is a problem, it is a medical condition, and treatment shouldn't be exclusively limited to adults

>>40225396
See, when someone makes a post like this, that's your cue to drop the conversation because they're an obvious ideologue.

>>40225515
>an overwhelming majority of people who take hrt do not stop taking it.
an overwhelming majority of people who pray to jesus report feeling better too

>>40225547
it's just evidently not though

>>40225515
>different patients can require similar treatment without having the same underlying cause you know that right?
If you don't have the same underlying cause then you can't make an analogy, that's my entire point. You are the ones trying to say that because one treatment is proven to work in one particular patient with a one particular underlying cause, then therefore it must necessarily work in a completely different patient with a completely different underlying cause!

>>40225545
if it's a medical condition what exactly is the medical problem

>>40225545
the treatment hasn't been proven to fulfill its stated goal and there isn't really even a plausible proposed physiological principle behind the treatment in the first place. Under the affirm only model, no one even knows what is being treated at all.

>>40225594
>if you dont let me look like a woman I will ACK
sort of like
>if you dont let me fuck men I will ACK
or
>i am spazztically retarded if you force me to be right handed
Its not a medical condition, its a variance. If you keep people from embracing it, it can certainly turn into one though.

>>40225652
great so you agree none of those things are medical conditions

therefore trannies are just cosmetic surgery addicts and we shouldn't pay for their shit or be unnecessarily nasty to them when they get it

>>40225055 (OP)
>Y'all
deport anything less white than Biden

>>40225585
>>you degenerates wanted to give whore moans to kids
>you are fine when cis kids get them and only care of trans kids get them
>>you are implying that because cis kids get hormones and that is effective we give them to trans kids.
no because both cis and trans kids require hormones, and for different reasons. cos kids being allowed hormones while trans children are prevented from them is discriminatory
>>40225570
and i dont try to make kids wait until 18 before they get baptized. what harms does hrt present to the patient?

>>40225696
I wasn't that original anon but come on, obviously he was talking about specific hormones, you know the ones behind the controversy, not ANY hormone therapy.

>cis and trans kids require hormones, and for different reasons
no one gets hormones because of being cis. A trans person would get the same hormones if they had the same condition that requires hormone therapy. The controversy is specifically, hormone therapy as a cure for gender dysphoria/affirm only(as some say you don't even need GD to transition, in which case it becomes even more evident no one knows what is being reated).

>>40225679
Its deeper in a weird way. I had strange thoughts as a teenager and I intentionally avoided ever considering myself a tranny since naturally all I heard about trannies is that they are weird, but now I am realizing burying it is kind of unnecessary torture and embracing it is good. It made me bitter, unfocused, and angry, so I suppose in that sense failing to embrace it did lead to a measurable negative outcome

It sort of is what it is I guess.

>>40225594
sex (or gender) dysphoria. there hasn't been enough research to be certain of what causes it but the best contenders at the moment are small brain differences caused by hormonal abnormalities in the womb, which is also why it's more likely to occur alongside autism, which has a similar cause.
>>40225636
this is only because we're asking the wrong questions, looking at only suicide rates vs quality of life and happiness overall

>>40225055 (OP)
kamala didnt campaign on, or even talk about lgbt stuff doebeit

trans stuff was a big rallying point for evil people but blaming us is like blaming the shadows in a schizophrenics head for making him kill people, we did fuckin nothing

>>40225825
They couldn't even get kamala to talk about climate change in the debate, but i guess she was going to ban your gas car?

>>40225821
>sex (or gender) dysphoria
what exactly does this mean?

>>40225055 (OP)
if a few hundred thousand ppl just existing is gonna cost one of the primary parties the national election, they probably didn't have a lot going for them

>>40225728
>cis
assigned a gender at birth and still identifies with gender at the present moment
> puberty blockers
these can be given to children for the prevention of early onset puberty. these kids are not necessarily trans.
> sex hormones
either estrogen or testosterone these can be given to children who are not sufficiently producing sex hormones of their own. sex hormones dictate which pubertal changes the body undergoes. they do not necessarily have to be trans to get them prescribed.
trans kids may require either puberty blockers, to allow time to come to a decision, or sex hormones, to undergo their desired puberty. the idea that not every trans person has gender dysphoria and that people with gender dysphoria should take hrt does not imply that every trans person should take hrt regardless of having gender dysphoria (ignoring the no true scotsmaning that this board does). just that it is a trans rights issue because everyone with gender dysphoria who is medically transitioning is trans.

>>40225825
>kamala didnt campaign on, or even talk about lgbt stuff doebeit
this is true and was a major part of her problem, but the reason it was such a problem was that she did campaign on it and talk about it in 2020. ignoring the issue when she was attacked on it, instead of vigorously defending LGBT people, made her look weak.

>>40225874
>>cis
>assigned a gender at birth
behold, a trans

>>40225839
That was part of Biden's goals during his term and since she was just Biden 2.0 they assumed she'd continue trying to ban or limit ICE cars.

>>40225880
does anyone remember the debate when elizabeth warren said she'd have a 9-year-old trans girl vet all her decisions

possibly the nadir of the 21st century american troon craze

>>40225901
i mean its a haha funny joke but intersex people are frequently assigned a gender differs from the gender classically associated with their human sex chromosomal makeup

>>40225874
>assigned a gender at birth and still identifies with gender at the present moment
not an indication for any treatment.

>these can be given to children who are not sufficiently producing sex hormones of their own
right, due to which causes? I guarantee for no cause listed will you be able to present anyone being discriminated against on the basis of being trans.

>to undergo their desired puberty.
it's not possible to develop gonads you don't have in the first place. I see the game you're playing. Basically you're trying to say that "cis kids desire puberty just like trans kids" except "desire" isn't the reason it's done, but rather physiology like fertility(the main point of puberty), and so the analogy would be, cis male wants to develop testicles, and trans male wants to develop testicles he doesn't have in the first place. That makes no sense, so again, discrimination is not based on being trans or cis but rather what is actually being treated.

What discrimination would look like, is if a trans person and a cis person both with adrenal insufficiency, and the trans person was denied hormones but not the cis person.

>>40225957
because it's not assigned, it's observed, sex is a fact about you
this girl is not actually male even though she is literally AMAB

>>40225978
> cis male wants to develop testicles, and trans male wants to develop testicles he doesn't have in the first place
and thats why the trans man is a trans man. because a cis female desires a female puberty in accordance with her gonads. and a cis male a puberty in accordance with his gonads. but trans individuals desire a puberty that is not aligned with their gonads which causes suffering. we cannot yet grant them bio identical gonads that allow them to have fertility. but we can relieve their suffering that they feel because of it. the best and most effective way to do that is hormone replacement therapy. if you believe that gender dysphoric people are suffering and your solution to that is to keep the most effective treatment option from them, then you would be incredibly sadistic. its discriminatory because it uniquely targets trans people

>>40226086
But no one is treated for "desire to go through puberty". That's not the reason cis people get sex hormones. "desire to go through puberty" is never an underlying cause to be treated, it doesn't matter at all whether a cis child "desires" to go through puberty.

So I disagree that trans people are discriminated because it's not the case of "cis people" getting something that trans people don't.

You're right that this uniquely targets trans people because by definition you've made trans out about getting this treatment. But the reason is still not BECAUSE they're trans but rather because of controversy over
1) the actually scientific evidence behind the treatment
2) if it's to be considered elective, whether children can consent or not

Not voting for a pro genocide party, they deserve to break up like the whigs, so do Republicans

>>40225055 (OP)
with the they them thing it's more enbies/faketrans but go off

>>40226165
it doesn't get treated because its not an issue for cis people. anyone who gets this treatment is def a to trans
> the actually scientific evidence behind the treatment
which is that this course of treatment is the most effective method.
> considered elective
insurer brained ngmi
> whether children can consent or not
children frequently consent to medical treatments. the doctors have tests to determine if children are able to give consent to a medical procedure, otherwise they defer that consent to the parents.
if the kid is suffering from dysphoria why would you choose to keep inflicting that on them

>>40225850
chronic distress due to one's biological sex and culturally perceived gender. in my case it started when i was a little kid wishing that i was a girl, praying that i could be one, and hoping that i could be reincarnated so that could happen. it turned into serious distress around puberty, and i felt very "disconnected" from my body, for lack of a better word. like it didn't feel like it was me and i would look in the mirror and i wouldn't feel like it was me. the distress was mental and physical, constant intrusive thoughts and (literal) heartache, most of every day by the time i trooned out. that's all a much smaller part of my life now, and im much better off for it.

>>40226309
>chronic distress due to one's biological sex and culturally perceived gender.
that isn't a medical problem though
you could justify literally any action on the basis of "distress"

>>40226259
>it doesn't get treated because its not an issue for cis people.
right, so it's not discrimination in the sense that "cis people get something and trans people don't". You're right that trans people don't get something, but I disagree that the reason they don't get this particular thing is because they're trans.

>children frequently consent to medical treatments
medical treatments that are evidence-based and the doctor still has full responsibility on it being the correct treatment and diagnosis. This is not happening in affirm-only model at all.

You keep insisting it's a "medical procedure" and treat every procedure as the same thing. Of course not every procedure is the same. In some cases consent isn't asked for at all it's just assumed. The dispute isn't over whether older children can consent to evidence based medical procedures. The dispute here is over the lack of evidence!

>>40225873
Tacit acceptance/tolerance of picre at all is enough to lose everything even if you ran on free blowjobs.

>>40225055 (OP)
dems went full blue-maga
it wasn't an election where Trump won, it was an election where the entire voting base of the dems didn't vote for them, it's like watching a person race alone and congratulate them on winning

>>40226357
what evidence would you like that shows gender dysphoric people are better off with hrt? regret rates? those are really low. surveying trans people for their experience? we generally say that we like it and are happy with it. we know that hormones work, in the sense that they have measurable effects on the body. what evidence do you have that there is a better treatment option? why should this particular medical decision require so much debate?

>>40226340
>that isn't a medical problem
being basically constantly tortured by your body's own sex is not normal and is certainly disordered.
>you could justify anything with "distress"
the fact that it is permanent distress and has a known nonpermanent cause justifies it. most cases of distress in life aren't permanent, and most that are aren't as easy to address as this.

>>40226454
actually it's similar to any kind of body dysmorphias and patients also demand plastic surgery or treatments to "fix" them.
>the fact that it is permanent distress and has a known nonpermanent cause justifies it.
detrannies show it's nonpermanent
and nothing you've said shows it's a medical problem
all you've said is some people are distressed. okay, so what? not a medical problem.

>>40226484
detrannies are the exception not the norm. no medical procedure can account for “Jesus christ of Nazareth visiting me on my acid trip and telling me that me being a troon makes him sad”
> you've said is some people are distressed. okay, so what? not a medical problem.
why does the distress get relieved when i take my tranny meds?

Shining a light on the few detransitioners who were on HRT is like obsessing over the one kid whose parent insists he got autism from vaccines as a justification for why we should ban the polio vaccine.

>>40226484
nta but what is a medical problem? would you consider depression and anxiety to be medical problems? because those certainly get diagnosed and treated like they are. they also happen to be based on the patient in question being distressed, do you think that justifies treatment of those?

>>40226443
>why should this particular medical decision require so much debate?
because the treatment entails sterilization of children which is a touchy subject. It's not hard to see why you'd need strong evidence if that's the treatment. If the proposed treatment was eating 2.5 oranges exactly per day for some reason, no one would care too much if someone did this even without good evidence as it has no side effects.

>>40226484
>it's similar to any kind of body dysmorphias
it is not actually. a dysmorphia is a belief that you look a way that you don't. dysphoric people know how they look, they just hate it.
>detrannies show it's nonpermanent
only if you take the grifting ones at face value. detrans and regret rates are low, and the majority of detrannies do it because of social pressure or not being accepted. some nondysphoric people genuinely do transition and then detransition but it's rare. many detrans grifters stay on hrt btw
>nothing you've said shows it's a medical problem
do you accept any mental/neurological disorders as medical problems?
>some people are distressed
chronically, to an often debilitating degree

>>40226531
Imagine telling Jonas Salk his vaccine would be used to argue growing tits on teenage boys in 100 years
I would love to see his face

>>40226543
Let's not pretend people are thinking about fertility, they're upset at gender norms being violated. It's just a more dramatic version of them being gay or wanting to paint their nails and that causing a clash with traditional values.

being a fence sitter and running on not being trump cost them the election. tho when dems backed biden even after his brain turned to jelly for reelection is what really did it. kamala was never gonna win

>>40226590
Imagine telling George Washington that his arguments would be used to justify letting black women vote in 250 years. His face would be quite funny too.

>>40226543
> entails sterilization of children
sorry to break it to you your fag son or dyke daughter wasn't giving you kids anyway. plus as long as their gonads are not removed they can switch hormones back and regain fertility. ftms made a movie about it called seahorse dad. mtfs do it so they can shoot big loads on onlyfans for their chaser/boomersissy audience. the rarity of a an orchiectomy or hysterectomy on an adolescence is astronomical. likely they are coming from a priveledged background with supportive parents.

>>40226537
>would you consider depression and anxiety to be medical problems?
only if they're dysregulated in themselves

someone's unfulfilled desire for a medical procedure making them depressed is not a medical problem any more than their desire for a million dollars making them depressed is a medical problem

>>40226582
that's also true of dysmorphia though
anorexics aren't delusional

>detrans and regret rates are low,
no evidence for that claim, lots of detrans ftms around

>>40226607
sorry but this is cope. Not everyone who is sceptical of child transition is a religious bigot that wants to legally enforce gender norms.

>>40226643
most trans people aren't gay pre-transition and there are definitely gay people that marry/become bi + I don't think sterilization is okay even if a child was gay, in fact that sounds like eugenics to me.

>>40226631
I think he could wrap his head around it at least, even if he didn’t agree. Jonas would just be very confused

>>40226652
I said 'traditional values', nothing about religion.
>Skeptical
Let's not pretend you're a true skeptic who could actually be convinced with evidence.

>>40226652
it's endless threads like this which make me realize that child transition is in fact THE core demand of all trannies and no compromise is ever going to be possible
there are no "reasonable" tranny activists and they'll only ever claim to be against the crazier shit for taqiyya reasons
it's going to be a long, long war

>>40226675
Well Jonas wasn't a psychologist so he'd have no background to understand mental health issues. At best he'd default to some Freudian "so they want to fuck their dad?" shit or Jungian "ah so they're grappling with a shadow demon!" shit. Then again he lived into the 90's so maybe he would get it with a little background.

>>40226686
>I said 'traditional values', nothing about religion.
In a western context, most people wanting to legally enforce gender norms are religiously motivated.

>Let's not pretend you're a true skeptic who could actually be convinced with evidence.
when you can't address my points, make imaginary claims about my hidden motivations of which you know nothing.

>>40226672
sterilization is not the goal? plus i pointed out that if one is concerned with fertility there are paths to consider. do you think that these things are not discussed with the children seeking treatment? do you think that their parents are not also informed?

>>40226645
>that's also true of dysmorphia though
>anorexics aren't delusional
anorexics believe they are fat when they aren't, and be distressed by that. a gender dysphoric may notice they are male, when they are, and be distressed by that fact. see the difference?
>no evidence for that claim
i have anecdotal evidence that some people don't regret transition and you have no evidence that a significant portion of trans people detransition.
>lots of detrans ftms around
how does this mean there are no genuine dysphorics? also, do you not see how women might be more prone to false positives for dysphoria given how much being a woman sucks? like yeah it's very sad and we as a society need to fix it but you shouldn't punish genuine transsexuals over that

>>40226714
>Freudian "so they want to fuck their dad?" shit or Jungian "ah so they're grappling with a shadow demon!" shit
An accidental trvke

>>40226730
>do you think that these things are not discussed with the children seeking treatment?
how does a child comprehend the concept of fertility preservation?
don't be fucking stupid.

>>40226730
>sterilization is not the goal?
your treatment still consists of sterilization regardless of what you think the goal might be.

>if one is concerned with fertility there are paths to consider.
yeah, like first and foremost, don't chemically castrate them.

>>40226751
do you think parents aren't there for those conversations???

>>40226696
You people are already trying to go after gay kids again, so no shit nobody wants to compromise with you. You obviously see compromise as a step towards your goal rather than an end-point.

>>40226645
so what does medical problem actually mean? because yeah if someone not having a million dollars is consistently depressed and doesnt have the means to fix that they are usually prescribed antidepressants. what about for trauma? if a child reports being depressed because of some trauma and therapy for whatever reason isnt helping they are also prescribed antidepressants. this is a better analogy for gender dysphoria considering its more about an aversion than an attraction (hence the word dysphoria)

>>40226734
>anorexics believe they are fat when they aren't
yeah but being fat is still their subjective interpretation, not hallucination. It's not like an anorectic person stands on a scale and hallucinates that it says 1 billion lbs and correctly concludes that they're overweight.

>>40226773
nta but doesn't matter, parents shouldn't have the right to castrate their children.

>>40226785
okay, how is it comparable to gender dysphoria?

>>40226751
you must have been a very dumb 14 year old?
>>40226764
chemo can cause sterility should we stoping doing that too?
> yeah, like first and foremost, don't chemically castrate them.
force your dysphoric kid through a puberty they will hate im sure this time it will turn out fine. they are the ones seeking out treatment, they are the ones requesting hrt, they are the ones who are told they are not allowed. stop letting how you want to live your life effect how other people live theirs

>>40226773
a child can't understand that shit, don't be dumb

>>40226784
there is no entry in the DSM for depression due to not having a million dollar and there shouldn't be such a thing for depression over not cutting your dick off either

>>40226720
What point? You just gave me a "not all" claim, that's not a point in contrast to my statement and it has no evidence. And no, I don't consider you/gincel with your gay couple surrogate fetish to be a significant demographic anymore than I consider flat eathers.

>>40226822
>you must have been a very dumb 14 year old?
how many 14 year olds understand the importance of having children?
what you're doing is tantamount to arguing 14 year olds can consent to sex and pregnancy

>>40226822
>chemo can cause sterility should we stoping doing that too?
if chemo is given like this
>they are the ones seeking out treatment, they are the ones requesting hrt
then yes, any doctor giving chemo to this child who made their own diagnosis would lose their license and go to prison. Like come on, still with the cancer analogy! Wake up and smell the coffee.

>>40225055 (OP)
>kamala being a negress being conveniently ignored so you can scapegoat troons
tell me you're a lib without telling me you're a lib
you'll never win the presidency again as long as you keep running DEI candidates

>>40226842
>> 14 yo can understand that doing thing a causes thing b no longer viable
> so why cant i fuck a 14 yo huh??
pedcon theory undefeated.

>>40225055 (OP)

The queers are a sideline. It was really a combination of two elements: Biden's own extreme selfishness in not stepping aside and needing to be forced out, and the boy who made the first attempt, which produced extremely good optics for Trump. As for the boy?

He is in hell, but he does not burn. He is not made to listen to the wailings of others (although those wails are nearby, and impressive). He is kept securely in a soundproof booth. He receives no overt physical torments. No demons rape him. Instead, he is simply left alone in a small cell with a television that he can never turn off, which broadcasts Trump's re-inauguration again, and again, and again, among related items (including the embarassing failure of his own attempt). Forever. And he knows that he is one of the top two or three people most directly responsible for making it happen. That is his punishment. He is given private knowledge on how his own failure psychologically swayed just enough many thousands of people to quietly, decisively, flip for Trump.

It didn't help that Kamala came across as fake as fuck. It's debatable who actually "won" the presidential Trump/Kamala debate, but pinwheel babyface Vance was clearly poised on the veep debate whereas Walz was not, which was also helpful.

>>40226838
My point is you need to touch grass if you think the average normie is fine with castrating kids and that the only person who disagrees is a religious bigot that hates all LGBT people.

>>40226873
>a 14 year old understands the huge weight of decision in giving up fertility
this claim genuinely is a lot like saying they can consent to sex
doctors won't even let 18 year olds do this if they aren't "trans"

>>40226876
And my point is that the average normie has no fucking idea how transitioning works. They are not actively thinking "No but the HRT might make my gay son incapable of knocking up a woman in a delusional attempt to be straight to continue my precious janitor bloodline!" because they don't even fucking know estrogen stops sperm production. They are simply and only thinking about the surface level violation of gender norms that transitioning entails, because all that they actually know about it.

>>40226842
An under 18 cannot comprehend the ramifications of sterilization and tbf most 28 y/o can't yet either

>>40226854
they test that you have cancer just like they test that the children have gender dysphoria. should children in sever pain be not barred from given pain killers as it requires an internal assessment of the patient’s pain, coupled with the complex analysis of potential future events with respect to addiction?

>>40226815
strawman
>>40226826
>a child can't understand that shit
who can? i was underage when i trooned out and i understood it less than i do now but more than sufficiently. especially because HRT almost never actually permanently sterilizes you! most people recover fertility, so it's only really relevant when the starting age is before puberty, which is rare and i think should require substantial doctor oversight if it happens

>>40226826
>cutting your dick off either
okay woah, no need to let the conclusion youve already decided on before the argument show itself like that. youre the first person to mention cutting a dick off here and its not something ive come even close to advocating for. there is an entry in the dsm for dysphoria, of which depression is a symptom, similar to how depression is a symptom of all kinds of other disorders

>>40226904
It's the normie that doesn't understand what protect trans kids entails that co-sign the sentiment. Tell the average normie what it actually entails and they'll be horrified. Which is what the american right is doing, they're just exposing what gender affirming care means to normies, they don't even have to convince anyone that it's bad to castrate kids, they know everyone already agrees with that, they just need to bring it to public attention that affirming a child's gender means to castrate them.

>>40226917
>i was underage when i trooned out
you're a victim of medical child abuse and the adults involved should be in jail for their entire lives, yes

> HRT almost never actually permanently sterilizes you
based on what evidence?

>>40226842
>the importance of having children
Are you Shinzo Abe possessing a gay retard or something?

>>40226894
there are ways to preserve fertility (freeze sperm or eggs) that are discussed with the kids and their parents. they can at a later date regain their fertility (if they had not already had a rare surgery to remove their gonads). why do you get to decide that everyone in the decision process is wrong about their assessment and that they should be ignored?

>>40226968
>why do you get to decide that everyone in the decision process is wrong about their assessment and that they should be ignored?
children can't understand the weight of this decision
everyone involved in the castration of children is insane, evil, and should be imprisoned for their entire lives without any possibility of parole

>>40226917
how the fuck is it a strawman? the literal treatment is to castrate them. That's neither a strawman nor a lie.

>>40226915
>they test that the children have gender dysphoria
not in affirm only. It's not a test if it only has one outcome. It also doesn't test whether the treatment will be effective in curing gender dysphoria.

Again you need to TOUCH GRASS like holy shit, imagine comparing gd to cancer. Go to a single normie and make this analogy.

>>40226941
>Which is what the american right is doing
No, as someone who lives here I can tell you they're not handing out tranny fact sheets or otherwise campaigning on information, they're just saying shit like "they're using your taxes to gender transition illegal immigrants!" or "there are MEN in DRESSES in the women's bathroom!" They are not remotely using a fact-based argument to convince normalfags to hate trannies. This idea that "everyone is pro-trans until the republicans told them about hrt castrating the gay boys knocking up women!" shit you present is a fantasy scenario.

>>40226968
>there are ways to preserve fertility (freeze sperm or eggs)
which requires them to have undergone puberty you dumbass. And no one gives a shit what the parent says, they can't decide to sterilize their kids anymore than they can marry off their children.

>>40226944
>you're a victim
how? i have 0 regret 7 years later.
>of medical child abuse
how?
>and the adults involved should be in jail for their entire lives
on what charge? what did they do wrong?
>based on what evidence
the experiences of the many trannies who have knocked women up while on hrt (this was part of the mandatory info packet i had to read to get hrt) and the many who go off for a while to freeze sperm or try for a baby

>>40226988
> sorry kid you have to suffer until your puberty is about complete before being granted any freedom to make the decision about your body because some anon on a fag forum is intensely concerned with the functionally of the gonads that make you want to kill yourself. and yeah he doesnt really give a shit that your parents are supportive even though that is incredibly uncommon. i guess “parental rights” was just one of those phrases they like hearing themselves say.

>>40227007
On the subject of child transition no lies are needed. Remember the "no one is getting surgery under 18" debacle? The standard response was "that isn't happening" until they brought the facts that it was happening...

Even the pro trans side knows that castrating kids isn't popular, which is why they had to argue using the "dead kids" argument(despite no evidence) or employ nice-sounding euphemisms.

>>40226991
>parents shouldn't have the right to castrate their kids
that's what you said. that's a strawman. when i said parents are involved i don't mean they are grooming them into it, or forcing them into it. they aren't "castrating their kids," they're treating a debilitating disorder with medicine that has a chance to cost them their fertility. hot take, there are bigger concerns in life. reppers won't make good dads.

>>40227016
> which requires them to have undergone puberty you dumbass
it takes less than a year back on your natal hormones iirc

>>40227055
> reppers wont make great dads.
elon is doing great!

>>40227046
You are literally changing the subject of this reply chain.

>>40227060
if you recall your dream correctly? Literally show me someone who never underwent puberty, and then as an adult, went on "natal hormones" and became fertile.

>>40227055
It's not a strawman. Castration takes place. Yes it might not be your ultimate goal, but it still entails that.

I'm not sure what you think strawman means. It's not interchangeable with "lie". I think your intention is to call me a liar. Of course I'm not lying either. But at least in the context it would make sense to call me a liar, as opposed to strawmanning.

>>40227076
Yeah only all of his public facing kids hate his guts, he's still got plenty that don't talk about him at all in exchange for money.

>>40227083
No I'm not. Child transition has always been the subject, and on that subject, the right isn't lying or trying to convince anyone that castrating children is bad, since it's assumed by both sides that the average normie agrees.

>>40226988
>>40226991
>>40227046
>>40227090
who is castrating children?? whats their name? any medical institutions to blame? and what reasons do those specific castrations happen?
AND BEFORE YOU ANSWER kindly visit the dictionary to find the defintion of both "castration" and "child"
(hoping for some studies or news articles and not just (((them))). )

>>40225155
Guzzling AI generated facebook propaganda is not informing yourself

>>40227090
> never underwent puberty
trans people who never underwent natal puberty are exceedingly rare because of people like you.
> went on "natal hormones" and became fertile
the amount of trans people that decide to do this in general are low.
so with those two things combined i dont have an example for you anon, you got me. but i think its weird you want to analyses tranny load sizes. like if you drop the “never underwent puberty” there are people that take exogenous hormones then stop to be fertile then go back on exogenous hormones.

>>40227103
No, the purpose of this reply chain was under what basis normalfags hate trannies. You proposed they hate castration, I pointed out they don't know that transitioning impacts fertility and so that wasn't their primary concern. This is what we are talking about. Surgery under 18 is absolutely not within the topic, you can't treat one reply chain like it's the whole thread to dump whatever unrelated topic you want to into it.

>>40227129
if no one is castrating children then no one has reason to complain when USA or any other country bans chemical castration for children :) so no need for further debate.

>>40227139
The average normie doesn't hate trannies. Unless by hate you mean oppose child transition. I think most normies would oppose child transition if they knew what it entails behind all the layers of euphemisms.

>>40227145
except you suddenly added this "chemical" to the word castration thats a little strange... which chemicals are involved in this castration? and have they been demonstrated to cause castration at the doses at which theyre administered (i do hope you checked the dictionary like i advised)

>>40227138
Ok so you admit you made shit up. Good. I don't think your made up shit should serve as basis for medical interventions.

>>40227180
I find it weird that countries are banning things that never ever happen, and even more strange, people get mad that they can no longer do the things that never ever happen!

>>40227168
Normalfags tend to have very simple black-and-white opinions, gincel. If they hate trannies, they're mostly going to hate all trannies. Even if they don't believe in stopping adult transition, they're gonna hate you for defying muh Jesus.
>If they knew what it entails
Oh, so you agree with my position that normalfags DON'T know what HRT does to fertility, so they hate teens transitioning for entirely other reasons like I said? Like defying gender norms? Same reason they hate gays?

>>40227187
i never made shit up, you can stop hrt and regain fertility that is documents. watch Seahorse (2019) for an example.

>>40227129
The end state of medical treatment for gd is sterilization. That is why insurance companies have to pay for trans surgical procedures, because they are a necessary step of the treatment for that disorder. Diagnosing a child with gd and getting them on that treatment path results inevitably in their sterilization. You could shorten it to castrating children.

>>40227210
The shit you made up was that people who transitioned as children can regain fertility. Whether or not adults who started and then aborted transition may or may not regain fertility is irrelevant to the subject of child transition who never became fertile in the first place. BTW even the "informed consent" forms state that infertility is to be assumed to happen, just that you can never say when exactly.

I find it funny that you go on about "informed consent" yet evidently don't even understand that small amount of information that is found in your own forms!

>>40225139
democrats didnt even yass kween this time :( they just swept all gays under the rug too. next time the DNC can concede the next argument. immigration, trannies, next appears to be the economy itself

>>40227208
You're the one displaying black and white thinking here, wherein everyone is either pro-trans including pro child transition, or they hate all LGBT people. My point is that the average normie doesn't hate gays or trannies. However, if they knew what child transition entailed, they would oppose that aspect.

>>40227207
countries have banned chemical castration for children? which ones? and i wonder why, becuase bans dont tend to happen without an offense. either way, sounds good to me, although i have a sneaking suspicion we dont have the same definition of chemical castration
>>40227212
surgery is not a necessary step actually. and i have never advocated it be a treatment for children who are gender dysphoric (few people do).

>>40227280
>we dont have the same definition of chemical castration
you think that chemical castration stops being chemical castration as long as you attach a secret magical goal to it, even if it's still the same procedure.

Even if it was true that chemical castration cured GD, it's still chemical castration.

By your logic child sacrifice isn't murder but rather agriculture, because the purpose isn't killing but to appease the gods so we get rain and a bountiful harvest.

>>40225055 (OP)
>2024
yes I'm sure it was trannies and not the democrats telling Muslims in the rust belt "fuck you we're going to genocide your relatives and you're going to thank us for it" and it certainly wasn't the sitting president having dementia followed by the vice president taking over the campaign, refusing to do interviews, and acting like nothing happened

>>40227090
define castration. im not calling you a liar, i think that you don't understand the effects of hrt on fertility.

>>40227291
i do not think that actually. im a little curious where youre getting that assumption but it doesnt actually matter. to be clear, were talking about chemical castration on children, which i disagree with. an adult is as free to castrate themselves as they are to procreate. so that brings me back to my original question: who is chemically castrating children? names or examples? hospital records or even news articles of this happening would help. and im assuming you already understand the definition of the phrase "chemical castration"

>>40227330
You're living proof that "informed consent" is a myth.

This is from the informed consent form which you don't understand:
>Loss of fertility (unable to get someone pregnant). Even after stopping hormone therapy, the ability to make healthy sperm may not come back.
>How long this takes to become permanent is difficult to predict.

Now you couldn't have given informed consent since you are uninformed. So you gave uninformed consent.

>>40227375
Giving children drugs that cause them to be infertile is per definition chemical castration. Puberty blockers and cross sex hormones given to children cause them to be infertile so per definition it's chemical castration.

>>40227424
forgot to link the consent form I'm citing
https://fenwayhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/Consent_Form_for_Feminizing_Therapy.pdf

>>40227424
>infertile
see thats not quite what castration means but you know what ill walk with you on that one because now were getting somewhere. you have sources to back up your claim that both puberty blockers and cross sex hormones cause infertility when administered to children, right?

>>40226672
Forcing dysphoric people to remain fertile is literally forced dysgenics.
There isn’t a good argument against voluntary eugenics btw

>>40226696
>”a people I hate and want an authoritarian state to force out of existence aren’t eager to compromise with me on hurting all future generations of them”
wow shocking
long long war o algo

>>40227273
>My point is that the average normie doesn't hate gays or trannies
Absolutely delusional.

>>40227462
>see thats not quite what castration means
retarded liar just shut the fuck up.

>Medical castration refers to the use of drugs to suppress the function of the ovaries or testicles.
https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/castration

>"Medical castration can be achieved with continuous or intermittent dosing of GnRH analogues. "
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7190190/

>literally using castration drugs to transition kids
>"uhmmmm post source that castration drugs cause castration hurrrr cuz i dont believe you loll hurr!!!11111 u cant lol owned"

>>40225055 (OP)
nope, republicans ran on tranny hate for the 2022 midterms and did terribly. it was palestine that caused dems to lose in 2024

>>40227544
also, y'know, biden being senile and running again

>>40227424
what you posted here is exactly what i read yeah. the wpath isn't infallible though, it's in many ways decades behind. i know i may lose fertility permanently, but that doesn't mean that always happens. i will say because i started young i wouldn't be surprised if i was at increased risk of infertility, but i was never gonna be a dad anyways anon. also risks of infertility are accepted by cis people all the time for medical reasons.

>>40227520
>>40227543
ok no need to sound so mad you shouldve clarified that you were referring to medical castration if that was the definition you wanted to use. the distinction is important because infertility is a more broad term than castration, which implies a complete lack of function of the gonads. and i was willing to move on from that it really isnt all that important. the study does reveal something valuable though because it is about cancer and the treatments use to prevent it. i didnt bring cancer up a single time, nor did i ask about it. the treatments often use the same chemicals used in hrt, but the dosages are vastly different and are used for completely different purposes. and importantly, no children are involved. so i have yet to find an answer to who is castrating all of these kids and why i should be freaking out about it

>>40227592
>look at all those mad people calling me out for being a lying liar that lies, well I may be a liar, but at least I'm not mad(I lie because I'm mad tho).

>>40227583
The form says permanent infertility is a matter of when not if. You still seem to be under the mistaken understanding that it's a matter of if, a % chance, like starting hrt is like rolling a dice and infertility is a 5.

>>40227608
assuming youre the anon i replied to, i didnt say you were mad, i have no way of knowing. you sounded mad based on the "retarded liar just shut the fuck up" but thats an assumption on my part. could you point out where i lied though? i dont think i did but i certainly couldve missed something. if its about the definition of castration admittedly the difference between castration and medical castration is nebulous based mostly on the latter and its actual application. thats semantics anyway though and i clearly stated i wanted to move past it

>>40227658
you made a smug bitch post that said I misused the term castration, I showed you to be a liar as I did not misuse it. We can move past it when you admit you're a retarded liar.

>>40227644
the form says permanent infertility MAY be a matter of when, not if. there have just not been enough academic and medical studies on trans people, just like there historically hasn't been enough done on women. there are so many cases of recovered fertility, and when you get hrt they warn you you may not be infertile!
and this is all aside from the point that the infertility is like, potentially the most tragic side effect. it is not the goal. but it is worth risking for a genuine transsexual

>>40227678
I'm sorry but you did not understand the form, so it wasn't informed consent. Informed consent requires both receiving and understanding the information.

>>40227686
what do i not understand? read every point i make

>>40227672
you did misuse the term. i believe i made it clear i was going by the dictionary definition of castration, because originally that was the only word you used. you then shifted to "medical castration", which as far as im aware you did not misuse, although the definition of that is a little vague. we can stick with that and continue, so long as you arent caught up so hard on me being a "retarded liar"

>>40227700
You are a retarded liar and your supposed dictionary definition isn't real. And we can deduce that you're mad, as the most likely explanation as to why you're lying is that you're desperate, and being desperate is likely to make you mad especially when you get called out on your lies, being mad is only the natural expected outcome on your part here.

>>40225570
>an overwhelming majority of people who pray to jesus report feeling better too
>And if one despairs, as who has not? Of human love God's love alone is left. But god, and I felt this even then so long ago on that tremendous floor unwillingly. Is white.

>>40227716
anon... its a google search away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration
the link you provided (https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/castration) agrees with the dictionary definition as well, and pretty clearly states the difference between castration and medical castration. you seem so caught up on this semantics issue, i wonder if you even have an argument for the fact that your cancer study is almost entirely irrelevant?

>>40227695
You believe that other people regaining fertility means you have a % chance of regaining fertility. That is a misunderstanding.

>>40227740
damn i forgot to include the pic i suppose i lost the argument