Thread 40240179

are there any high-quality studies that show HRT offers any benefit to minors with gender dysphoria? looking for links to actual sources

i know that it's utterly obvious that at least some people experience great long-term benefit from receiving HRT as a minor, and i personally believe it's likely the overwhelming majority of people currently requesting such treatment receive great net benefit compared to the counterfactual, but i need studies i can show

t. cis lib currently in an argument with some anti-trans people on social media

>>40240179 (OP)
>high-quality
in the cass review/NIH cass review sense, or by using the same standards applied for other medical interventions and treatments? too transparent OP, try again

You're wasting your time. These people are stubborn as fuck

>>40240190
fpbp
>>40240200
/thread

>>40240200
>You're wasting your time. These people are stubborn as fuck
i am very cognizant of this and i almost always ignore them but colin wright and matt yglesias are talking about it and all the colin wright fans must've seen his reply in their timeline and flooded the thread

i am highly aware i sound retarded right now. for some reason i just feel an urge to reply to this one claim. he wrote so much wispy bullshit that would require a full essay to adequately respond to, but "these interventions have no demonstrated benefit" buried in there is an actual non-nebulous, concrete assertion to hone in on

even if perhaps i can't technically provably demonstrate the benefit (he/his fans will say the studies are bad or whatever) this claim is the crux the shitty house of cards is built on and i don't like it just being tacitly accepted

>>40240190
>high-quality
>in the cass review/NIH cass review sense, or by using the same standards applied for other medical interventions and treatments?
even one single small study is enough to refute his particular claim here, i think, if the study is strong enough. he is pretty much stating or implying no one has benefitted or can benefit from cross-sex hormones

>too transparent OP, try again
>>40240236
i am not actually a troll; just a loser

>>40240190
>in the cass review/NIH cass review sense, or by using the same standards applied for other medical interventions and treatments?
Those are the same thing, though
>inb4 50 posts of back and forth examples that don't match the ratio of harms of GAC vs unknowns

>>40240316
>Those are the same thing, though
>

>>40240295
I mean
Can you argue that there are benefits to GAC to mental wellbeing? Probably, though maybe not conclusively.
But that's pretty moot given that the trans medical community chose to make their pitch life or death.

>>40240179 (OP)


De Vries, A. L., Steensma, T. D., Doreleijers, T. A., & Cohen‐Kettenis, P. T. (2011). Puberty suppression in adolescents with gender identity disorder: A prospective follow‐up study. The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 8(8), 2276-2283.

De Vries, A. L., McGuire, J. K., Steensma, T. D., Wagenaar, E. C., Doreleijers, T. A., & Cohen-Kettenis, P. T. (2014). Young adult psychological outcome after puberty suppression and gender reassignment. Pediatrics, 134(4), 696-704.

Costa, R., Dunsford, M., Skagerberg, E., Holt, V., Carmichael, P., & Colizzi, M. (2015). Psychological support, puberty suppression, and psychosocial functioning in adolescents with gender dysphoria. The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 12(11), 2206-2214.

Allen, L. R., Watson, L. B., Egan, A. M., & Moser, C. N. (2019). Well-being and suicidality among transgender youth after gender-affirming hormones. Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology, 7(3), 302.

Kaltiala, R., Heino, E., Työläjärvi, M., & Suomalainen, L. (2020). Adolescent development and psychosocial functioning after starting cross-sex hormones for gender dysphoria. Nordic Journal of Psychiatry, 74(3), 213-219.

de Lara, D. L., Rodríguez, O. P., Flores, I. C., Masa, J. L. P., Campos-Muñoz, L., Hernández, M. C., & Amador, J. T. R. (2020). Psychosocial assessment in transgender adolescents. Anales de Pediatría (English Edition), 93(1), 41-48.

van der Miesen, A. I., Steensma, T. D., de Vries, A. L., Bos, H., & Popma, A. (2020). Psychological functioning in transgender adolescents before and after gender-affirmative care compared with cisgender general population peers. Journal of Adolescent Health, 66(6), 699-704.

Achille, C., Taggart, T., Eaton, N. R., Osipoff, J., Tafuri, K., Lane, A., & Wilson, T. A. (2020). Longitudinal impact of gender-affirming endocrine intervention on the mental health and well-being of transgender youths: preliminary results. International Journal of Pediatric Endocrinology, 2020(1), 1-5.

Kuper, L. E., Stewart, S., Preston, S., Lau, M., & Lopez, X. (2020). Body dissatisfaction and mental health outcomes of youth on gender-affirming hormone therapy. Pediatrics, 145(4).

Turban, J. L., King, D., Carswell, J. M., & Keuroghlian, A. S. (2020). Pubertal suppression for transgender youth and risk of suicidal ideation. Pediatrics, 145(2).

Carmichael, P., Butler, G., Masic, U., Cole, T. J., De Stavola, B. L., Davidson, S., ... & Viner, R. M. (2021). Short-term outcomes of pubertal suppression in a selected cohort of 12 to 15 year old young people with persistent gender dysphoria in the UK. PLoS One, 16(2), e0243894.

Grannis, C., Leibowitz, S. F., Gahn, S., Nahata, L., Morningstar, M., Mattson, W. I., ... & Nelson, E. E. (2021). Testosterone treatment, internalizing symptoms, and body image dissatisfaction in transgender boys. Psychoneuroendocrinology, 132, 105358.

Hisle-Gorman, E., Schvey, N. A., Adirim, T. A., Rayne, A. K., Susi, A., Roberts, T. A., & Klein, D. A. (2021). Mental healthcare utilization of transgender youth before and after affirming treatment. The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 18(8), 1444-1454.

Green, A. E., DeChants, J. P., Price, M. N., & Davis, C. K. (2021). Association of gender-affirming hormone therapy with depression, thoughts of suicide, and attempted suicide among transgender and nonbinary youth. Journal of Adolescent Health.

Turban, J. L., King, D., Kobe, J., Reisner, S. L., & Keuroghlian, A. S. (2022). Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults. PLoS One, 17(1), e0261039.

Tordoff, D. M., Wanta, J. W., Collin, A., Stephney, C., Inwards-Breland, D. J., Ahrens, K. (2022) Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care. JAMA Network Open, 5(2), e220978.

Jason Rafferty, COMMITTEE ON PSYCHOSOCIAL ASPECTS OF CHILD AND FAMILY HEALTH, COMMITTEE ON ADOLESCENCE, SECTION ON LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER HEALTH AND WELLNESS, Michael Yogman, Rebecca Baum, Thresia B. Gambon, Arthur Lavin, Gerri Mattson, Lawrence Sagin Wissow, Cora Breuner, Elizabeth M. Alderman, Laura K. Grubb, Makia E. Powers, Krishna Upadhya, Stephenie B. Wallace, Lynn Hunt, Anne Teresa Gearhart, Christopher Harris, Kathryn Melland Lowe, Chadwick Taylor Rodgers, Ilana Michelle Sherer; Ensuring Comprehensive Care and Support for Transgender and Gender-Diverse Children and Adolescents. Pediatrics October 2018; 142 (4): e20182162. 10.1542/peds.2018-2162

>>40240365
>>40240373
if you can, please tell me what you believe is the strongest of these and link a PDF if you have it or if not i will find one

looking specifically for reported persistent increases in happiness/decreases in depression

>>40240336
no, it's not moot. the correct move is to say that unproven claims of suicide rate reduction are a red herring and move on to proving that cross-sex hormone interventions often result in counterfactually better lives

Wylie C Hembree, Peggy T Cohen-Kettenis, Louis Gooren, Sabine E Hannema, Walter J Meyer, M Hassan Murad, Stephen M Rosenthal, Joshua D Safer, Vin Tangpricha, Guy G T’Sjoen, Endocrine Treatment of Gender-Dysphoric/Gender-Incongruent Persons: An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 102, Issue 11, 1 November 2017, Pages 3869–3903, https://doi.org/10.1210/jc.2017-01658

>>40240405
>no, it's not moot. the correct move is to say that unproven claims of suicide rate reduction are a red herring
Except they aren't a red herring. They were the chosen criteria by the very researchers and doctors who support transition for minors.
Do you know why they chose that criteria?
Because threat to life outweighs the most negatives for proposed treatment, while "improvement in depression and disposition" requires far more negative-outcome scrutiny.

>>40240428
if someone made false claims they should retract them. if they didn't then they have no reason to cuck themselves due to other people's rhetoric

it is very easy to make a case for trans healthcare for minors and people should do so. the debate should be over the probability of regretting treatment vs. regretting not being given treatment, in the long term

>>40240473
(and by false, i really mean unproven. the claim could be true)

>>40240405
>until you prove that freedom is beneficial, let's continue with slavery. you say you don't want it, but we can't prove that you want what's good for you. my slaves are happier, actually. and i don't need to prove that. and if you give me too many studies and meta-analyses and policy recommendations and standards of care that's bad because i can't read. i just want to bully children quickly now tell me which study's abstract to read
imagine asking gay teenagers to prove they should be allowed to date each other using scientific studies. kill yourself. parsley

i regret not being on the treatment.

>>40240473
I guess you'll have to ask the head of USPATH to retract and step down, then. She's chosen to double down instead.

>>40240405
there's so many i can't even choose but here you go i guess:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039

>>40240501
you're barking up the wrong tree. i generally support minors being able to get HRT from a doctor or the internet after receiving education on the effects and some basic interviewing. just if you want to actually make real life how it should be, you have to persuade others who see things differently

that said, consent and access totally aside, the cis side is still one side of the equation. one person receiving endogenous hormones they regret and another person receiving exogenous hormones they regret are both harms

>>40240532
thank you