Do you think having a female brain makes you a woman?

why doesnt it use an image of gish or say who he was
its weird for there to just be an unrelated image of a statue

>>40461465
the statue is there to facepalm
that way you know that this is bad
not good
bad

>>40461437 (OP)
i dont think a female brain is all that real but to the extent that is is yeah i guess youd be a woman. cuz youd probably have gender dysphoria and identify as one anyway

>>40461491
Is feeling like a woman being a woman?

>>40461500
"feeling like a woman" and "being a woman" are both underspecified
having a brain that expects at a preconscious level to find itself in a female body will tend to lead you to make steps that move you toward the "woman" cluster in thingspace

>>40461437 (OP)
no
retarded thread

>>40461437 (OP)
I think expressing the female phenotype makes me a woman
If you think I've stolen something of yours and chasing after me you're not gonna yell "somebody stop that man!"
Therefore I am a woman

>>40461569
Is female brain underspecified?

>>40462140
what is the female phenotype?

>>40462140
What is the female phenotype and does believing you have one make you a woman?

>>40462496
what do you believe makes one a woman

you cant see a person's chromosomes and chances are they're wearing clothes so you cant see their junk either
what makes you look at a person and decide hmm, woman

>>40462539
chromosomes and the physical and behavioral effects they have
you don't need to see their genitals because chromosomes influence the shape and function of the whole entire body and we are programmed to detect sex without conscious effort

>>40462563
okay what are those physical behavioural effects

when you walk past someone on the street and determine them to be a woman
how do you determine that

and also like, can you determine this stuff without seeing them
could you, say, read a transcript of two people talking, and determine whether they are men or women

>>40462586
you are the one who believes in this female phenotype nonsense but won't even define your terms - you are just trying to turn this back on me
trannies believe anything with long hair and no visible body hair is a woman, as long as you aren't super hideous

>>40462613
ive seen plenty cis women with body hair
i find it hot actually

>>40462620
you believe having hair on your face is the determinant in general I suppose
trannies are super hostile to the idea of women having facial hair
and you believe MEN must be shorn of body hair to qualify as women - so really it's just an inconsistent standard

>>40462586
>okay what are those physical behavioural effects
the shape of your bones, how they are angled, their ratios, this is like thousands of mathematical ratios our brains are algorithmically programmed to detect

>>40461437 (OP)
Yes, of course.
But having a disrupted default mode network doesn't mean you are a woman, just like people with Cotard's syndrome aren't really dead.
https://www.inverse.com/article/61374-gender-dysphoria-in-the-brain
The funniest thing is that it's a reflective process rather than a reflexive process too.
They are consciously deciding they are the opposite sex, it's not something innate to them.
In other words, since neural networks relating to gender dysphoria are spread far and wide among the brain, and autistic people have issues with neural connectivity on long distances, much probably there were some issues when these connections (those responsible for GD) were formed. Formed, as they are, as it seems, willingly.
Trannies are just autists that did what they could with their brains to achieve a sense of self, but weren't fully successful.
I wouldn't blame a 6 years old autistic kid for not being able to have the mental capacity to achieve through a conscious process the correct structure that his neurotypical peers achieved innately.
But thinking that this kid is a woman because of a couple thousands poorly connected neurons is a stretch.
Everything else is mostly well connected.
Just look at their interests. Just look at this board. You need to be extremely lucky with how you fail with your brain connectivity to be actually somewhat similar (on a phenotypical level, psychologically speaking) to a woman. Usually they get some weird fascination (hoi4, diapers, eroguro), which, to the surprise of absolutely nobody, comes from the fact that their brains are male.
I mean, you could change your brain structure in a specific way, but then you can see that you are demasculizing it, and (or) then feminizing it (shoutout to gloves for doing the opposite of this, to a certain extent). But your reptillian brain (with a big chung of the limbic system) is still that with which you developed till 20.

>>40462843
>chung

yes

>>40461437 (OP)
i don't think my brain resembles a cis woman's, but i think that there is some essential aspect of human neurology that defines manhood and womanhood and that that particular part of my brain is 'female'.

>>40463187
>that particular part
what part of the brain is that?
and how does it define the sexes?

>>40463195
the girl part
girls have it
and so do i

>>40463214
this just seems like you trying to say you feel like a girl, but make it sound scientific
nobody is disputing YOU SAY you feel like a girl

>>40463217
would i say i feel like a girl (and be willing to commit to the bit) when i didn't feel like one
do girls feel like girls

>>40463227
if there were benefits to be obtained by saying you feel like a girl, yes
>do girls feel like girls
women don't have feelings don't be silly

>>40463233
i dont have feelings either i just want the benefits and clothing options

>>40463238
why can't you just wear female clothing and not do the "I feel like a girl tee hee" larp?
>i just want the benefits
bear live young

>>40463243
people get weird about you wearing it if you dont have a reason

>bear live young
if science (and also just, the economy) let me

>>40463249
if more males did it, it would be less weird

>>40463253
y'all call as fetishists when we do. stop your hypocrisy

>>40462563
That's hormones though.
Only you clowns think CAIS is noticeably male.
>>40462613
Are you telling me you don't intuitively know what a woman is? You need a dictionary definition?
You can't write one. Lawmakers keep trying and just finding new ways to fuck it up.

>>40463195
>what part of the brain is that?
beats the shit out of me

>>40465418
then how do you know it exists?

>>40463612
>stop having uncommon sexual interests!
I dunno I find like fursuits more annoying than crossdressing and the human instinct to police the sexual interests of others I find fascinating.
The whole concept that "fetish=bad" seems to perhaps speak to deeper motivations and fears in the human unconscious.

>>40462563
You have failed the breakfast problem btw.

>>40467105
>what if there was a magical person who looked perfectly female but had male chromosomes
what if said person was quite feminine but in fact had noticeable male traits you are deliberately overlooking in favor of dogma

>>40466948
>then how do you know it exists?
well there's a host of reasons to believe that gender is innate: it's present in all human cultures, studies comparing identical/fraternal twins imply a possible genetic component, trans people's experiences are indicative of it, and we have the patients of john money who got the trans experience without actually being trans.
and given this innateness and the link with autism, it seems obvious to me that transsexuality is a neurodevelopmental disorder.

>>40461437 (OP)
No, it makes you exclusively attracted to men (which most trannies aren't but all gay men are)

>>40467332
>trans people's experiences are indicative of it
so its all just a loop feeding back into "we feel like women you have to believe us" eventually
where does gender exist

>>40467424
>lesbians are men
Sure Grandpa. Let's get you back to your room.
>>40467428
Remember that time they burned some kid's dick off so they decided to turn him into a girl? But he made them undo it and actually chose to get a frankendick rather than just roll with what they'd done, then went to the media so they'd hopefully stop doing that to other kids?
I think we found humans' intrinsic sense of gender.
See also: the psych papers blaming parent for their intersex kids' gender issues after the doctors told them they needed immediate surgery to make them normal.

>>40467428
>so its all just a loop feeding back into "we feel like women you have to believe us"
are you fucking stupid? let's count.
1. gender is present in all human cultures
2. studies comparing identical/fraternal twins imply a possible genetic component
3. trans people's experiences are indicative of it
4. the cisgender patients of john money developed gender dysphoria
that is four indicators. it's not all "just" anything, there are several pieces of evidence. if you continue to respond in bad faith i'm not going to invest more energy in explaining this to you.

>>40467473
>>lesbians are men
they have male brains yes you retard

>>40467501
>gender is present
animals feel like girls or boys?
its weird that you use the word gender as basically like a prescriptive version of sex - except its self defined for people who disagree with their actual sex it's really just like a word cudgel

>>40467473
>Remember that time they burned some kid's dick off so they decided to turn him into a girl? But he made them undo it and actually chose to get a frankendick rather than just roll with what they'd done, then went to the media so they'd hopefully stop doing that to other kids?

>n = 1

reminder that this happened to many kids and more than half the time they chose to stay as women

>>40467528
Whereas when you don't do that what percentage choose to transition?
Isn't it weird that it's "more than half" and not "all but like 1%"?
>>40467513
>you retard
Opinion discarded

>>40467595
>Isn't it weird that it's "more than half" and not "all but like 1%"?
why would it be?
men don't make very feminine women even when they're castrated at birth
this proves there's no gender identity though, by your own logic

>>40467528
>reminder that this happened to many kids and more than half the time they chose to stay as women
no, that's a lie. the result you're intentionally garbling is that of the kids who weren't told by their parents what happened, 5/12 spontaneously figured it out and asserted a male gender identity.
the ones who didn't were noticeably psychologically damaged.
>What about the children who maintain their female identities? One had wished to become a boy but accepted her status as a girl.
>Later, her parents told her about her past, and she became angry and withdrawn, refusing to discuss the matter. Parents of the others are determined that the girls will never find out about their birth status. Three have become withdrawn, and a fourth has no friends.
i also want to note how insanely evil parents had to be to voluntarily cooperate with this. not all of them did voluntarily cooperate with it, either.
>Two other children that Reiner has followed were reared as boys because their parents refused sex reassignment. (Not all parents had this choice. One of the parents I spoke with was threatened with child protective services if he refused to allow his child to be reassigned.)

>>40467638
you don't even know what i'm talking about
hundreds of boys with CE have been reassigned to girls at birth and most stayed girls

>>40467653
if you're not talking about the group bailey cites in the man who would be queen, which study are you talking about?

>>40467519
>animals feel like girls or boys?
no, but animals whose brains got huge to deal with living in complex social groups might evolve some innate sense of what sex-based social group they ought to be a member of, yeah.

>>40467622
>men don't
Correct. Developmentally normal males castrated against their will before their earliest memories stay male, or at least male-adjacent.
Now look up what happens with intersex kids.
>>40467653
>hundreds of boys with CE
Didn't they overwhelmingly turn out to be lesbians though? According to this guy >>40467513 they're basically men.

I think people underestimate the complicated nature of the "what is a man/woman" question. It's like asking what a human is, you can get a taxonomy of homo sapiens repeated back to you but most people don't find that answer very compelling if they're asking the question in the first place. Similarly, I don't think people can conceptualize of what a man or woman is purely in the realm of chromosomes and biology, while we can store those facts as knowledge in our brain they remain mere abstractions to our psychology
I think of it as we humans are social and behavioral creatures, and we are judged on social and behavioral axes. The boundaries and lines we define men and women on by these axes are varied and at times, blurred when they brush up against each other. As transgender people, we often live in that blurred middle of the two realms, though some do land firmly on one side of the line or the other.

>>40467836
there existed a kind of bimodal distribution of biological traits and a normal distribution social roles, then somewhen a million years ago somebody (probably some jackass) decided to make social hierarchies about it and line the two of them up like a dick (<- see! they're still fucking me over- i cant even insult them without adding to it.) we all have our inclinations socially and desires biologically just based on like. whats efficient for us. its not a male brain, its a brain who thinks it likes having a dick. its not a girl brain, its a brain that likes wearing dresses or whatever. its not real and its not strictly performative either like some say. its literally just what is easy for somebody

>>40467890
also i think allistic women started it. if men started it they wouldnt have picked the shittiest roles possible but in those times. no hard feelings for them now obviously

>>40461437 (OP)
I feel intense psychological distress at the thought of being seen as a male. I transitioned and now pass flawlessly, (new people I meet don't believe I'm a tranny), am part of a cis girl only friend group, and I'm doing pretty decent in life, generally.
The "what is a woman" meme is retarded. Independent of their real sex or whatever, dysphorics who transition live better lives, and they don't pose a threat to women or kids (even if a creep transitioned, I think that getting their sex drive nuked by hormones would be a win). Everyone should be able to live happy and fulfilling lives as long as they don't harm anyone. Maybe I have a male brain and male chromosomes, but I'm female to everyone who isn't a creep, a doctor or a sexual partner, and I'm happy so, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>40467986
>>40467836
They don't know about my Y chromosome
Neither do I actually. No kids; no proof I even produce gametes. In order to be sure I even have one some poor human person is gonna have to culture some of my blood cells, stop them from dividing at the right stage in order to get a picture of my chromosomes, then cut and paste them into order.
Conservatives think they can just smell them though.
If you ask people the question they'll reliably give you an answer they don't actually use themselves.
Even the liberals are lying when they say they think anyone who says they're a woman is one. Nobody really believes that. But the conservatives are absolutely delusional about mildly advanced biology.

>>40467986
>at the thought of being seen as a male.
do you associate that with possible negative judgement?

Wtf does having a female brain even mean? 90% of human behaviour is socialized. Men and women aren’t biologically forced to perform certain roles.

>>40468755
>Even the liberals are lying when they say they think anyone who says they're a woman is one
right
"people who claim they are women are women" is a heuristic, not a definition. cis libs will sometimes misunderstand this but trans people usually get it

>>40468755
>Reddit-tier smug with a sprinkle of “I just discovered chromosomes yesterday.”
Liberals aren’t lying. They just don’t treat being a woman like the rarest thing in the world like matt walsh brainwashed idiots do. It’s your own species, we’re 99% the same, you’re not some genetic enigma.

>>40470697
>90% of human behaviour is socialized.
sauce?

>>40471236
common sense? Humans have free will

>>40471455
appeals to common sense are logically fallacious
beliefs being common don't make them accurate
>Humans have free will
behavioral norms exist and constrain and restrict

>>40470697
>the ghost of John Money babbling on 4chan for some reason
So surely if you start young enough you can teach a boy to be a girl, right?

>>40471504
john money abused the kids, it wasn't just about dressing up a boy as a girl and calling him that
it doesn't prove anything

>>40471516
Why do you think he felt the need to abuse the kids? But even abuse didn't make it stick did it?
Do you think different tactics would have worked?

>>40471557
repressed homosexuality - he wasn't allowed to be with other adult men - he had these young fresh specimens of maleness and repression makes you go literally insane

>>40471504
Never said that. Gender identity and gender norms aren’t the same thing.

>>40471562
>the homosexual urge to surgically force-fem your patients
But if instead of sexually abusing them he just, like, put David Reimer in a dress and called him a girl and his family bought him dolls and whatever he would've grown up to be a happy housewife?

>>40471236
common knowledge except its actually like 95%

>>40471628
He didn't really do the surgical force fem - one boy already had the penis gone I think before he met John Money because they stupidly used an electrocautery for the circumcision and most of the penis was somehow burned off.

>he just, like, put David Reimer in a dress and called him a girl and his family bought him dolls and whatever he would've grown up to be a happy housewife?
I think the moral of the story is that circumcision should be illegal, but no, I think if they were honest to him that they botched a circumcision he would have been upset about that enough to be mad they were trying to force him into a female role to cope with that even without the sexual abuse.

>>40471642
or it just confirms your bias that you can "learn" to act like a woman

>>40471582
Fair enough
Sorry I'm not actually ttttbrained. I don't think you have to want to be a tradwife to be a Real Woman.
But Reimer's gender identity survived, what, 15 years of medical, psychological, and sexual abuse? Sounds pretty malebrained to me.

>>40471729
sure is weird how many trans women are obsessed with being traditional and totally submissive